The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[AceofSpaces]

Votes are changeable, so I'm going to join the list of people who have already voted. I voted for S~V~S because I agree with everything Dharamahelper is saying. She has not done anything that has thrown off my day 1 suspicion of her.

Your pictures are working MM.

You showed up for your ninth post of the game very soon after I called you out for only having 8 posts. And this S~V~S vote is very sketchy. I'll also join the list of people who have already voted. *votes Aces*

I posted because it's when I have time to post. Don't give yourself so much credit. It literally had nothing to do with you.

And I suspected S~V~S day 1, and day 2. Day 1 I voted for her, but didn't have enough time or energy to convince everyone else. So, how is my S~V~S vote "sketchy"?

These are the reasons I was pinged by your post.

1. I thought that opening with "votes are changeable etc" was slightly suspicious language, it gave me the impression that you're leaving a back door open in case things go wrong with that vote. It's not too bad of a sentence really, it only gave me a slight ping, barely making it as a thing on this list.

2. Your vote based on "everything DH is saying" made me feel , to put it in Smilese. It probably makes me more suspicious because of your extreme low-lying play and lack of posts. To come in and say "I'll have what he's having" is just sketchy, surely you can see that.

3. Voting off a Day One suspicion gets more and more questionable as the game goes on. Granted, you're only 10 posts in to the game, but most of us have discussed a bunch of things, things have progressed some beyond Day One.

That's why I found your S~V~S vote sketchy. I also found your blindfaeth vote to be sketchy, as I've said. And to really seal the deal of a vote on you, was the idea that baddies without BTSC are reasonably likely to be laying low, a waiting game until they can get found by Blacksmith. Bass 1.0 was.

1. In case things go wrong with that vote? I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Are you trying to say in case I change my mind? In case a better option presents itself? In case S~V~S does or says something that makes me think she isn't bad? Because none of those things are a bad reason to change someones vote. If we have to option to change our vote, why not take advantage of it? That's a weak reason for calling something "sketchy" and you know it.

2. Would you feel better if I quoted DH? Or if I spent 20 minutes rehashing everything he's said. I don't like doing that. He's made a better case than I could, and instead of making redundant post that say basically the same thing, I'm just agreeing with him.

3. Sometimes you just have a feeling on someone. My gut tells me S~V~S is bad. Also, you are misunderstanding why I voted for S~V~S. It isn't just because she was suspicious day one. I am taking into account recent events as well.

My vote for bf was a result of me not having time to read through the thread properly and make an informed decision. I misread the situation there, and I'd do things differently if I could. My vote for S~V~S is a result of me reading through DH's case and finding that it lines up with a lot of m own thoughts.

[S~V~S]

Your gut is in error.

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace Epi, sorry to see you go

I don't know that I feel as strongly as DH does about SVS being bad due to her defense of Bass. First of all it now seems likely that Bass died with no BTSC since he subbed back in, so it couldn't have been an "in the know" defense. I think Bass is a blindspot for SVS's radar, but I think she insists on defending him in games when he's attacked, which she probably should stop doing so bluntly when she doesn't know anything, because I think it gets her into trouble :P But I doubt me saying that will stop her from playing how she wants, lol. At the end of the day I believe SVS when she says she didn't think Bass was bad. At the moment I'm reading her intentions as pure because I don't know why she would go through the trouble of defending him if she's bad and didn't know his role.

I don't suspect LC at this point, I think Daisy is reading what she wants to into his intentions. He had a good rebuttal to her initial inquiries about taking responsibility for his votes, but Daisy replied to that by basically saying "Ok fair enough, but I still don't think you're civ." I think Daisy is tunneling on her read of LC and isn't considering the alternative scenario where she's wrong. Not sure how that makes me feel about Daisy but I'm feeling pretty good about LC.

I don't like that blindfaeth's reaction to us lynching a baddie is to say the case sucked and the lynch was dumb He also seems to have deliberately misconstrued what the case actually WAS on Bass. We didn't lynch Bass because he was saying "cheat", at least that's not why I voted for him, I voted due to LC's observation that Bass had called out 6 players without naming names and followed up on exactly none of them, making it look like he wasn't really hunting baddies. I can't figure out why BF doesn't see it that way but he seems way more upset about this than he should be. I think maybe he's just upset we're not listening to him, I'll take a closer look at Bullzeye but I think BF's read on Bullzeye is too straightforward. Bullzeye wouldn't be THIS obstructive if he was actually a baddie, would he? Is that too much WIFOM? Bullz seems to be playing a selfish game for sure, but I'm not sure it means he's bad. In any case I'll look into it more because as the game has wore on I haven't felt that Bullz cares about much other than saving himself but I want to give him some room to breathe so he's not constantly worried about his neck being on the line. Bullzeye, where are you looking for this lynch?

[Marmot]

Would

Bullzeye

be obstructive if

Bullzeye

is a civvie?

[Bass_the_Clever]

I agree with Roxy and TH about SVS . She almost always defends me if I come under attack . I don't think DH or Aces has been in a game that it has happen in but it has happen more then once where she defended me and I was bad and she was civvie.

[Turnip Head]

Would

Bullzeye

be obstructive if

Bullzeye

is a civvie?

Yes I think he could be, though I don't approve. I think that's just his personality, and maybe what he means by "always playing his baddie game". I'd like it if he stepped it up though so I could get a more accurate read on him.

[AceofSpaces]

I agree with Roxy and TH about SVS . She almost always defends me if I come under attack . I don't think DH or Aces has been in a game that it has happen in but it has happen more then once where she defended me and I was bad and she was civvie.

I don't judge people based on past games, I judge them based on the game they are currently playing.

Also, you probably could have phrased that part in bold slightly better.

[DharmaHelper]

I agree with Roxy and TH about SVS . She almost always defends me if I come under attack . I don't think DH or Aces has been in a game that it has happen in but it has happen more then once where she defended me and I was bad and she was civvie.

I don't judge people based on past games, I judge them based on the game they are currently playing.

Also, you probably could have phrased that part in bold slightly better.

Says the human autocorrect.

[Ricochet]

Oy, TH! Don't you have a Champions game to win for us? :P

[AceofSpaces]

I agree with Roxy and TH about SVS . She almost always defends me if I come under attack . I don't think DH or Aces has been in a game that it has happen in but it has happen more then once where she defended me and I was bad and she was civvie.

I don't judge people based on past games, I judge them based on the game they are currently playing.

Also, you probably could have phrased that part in bold slightly better.

Says the human autocorrect.

It's not about the grammar. It's that one interpretation of that could be that Bass is admitting he's bad and S~V~S is defending him.

[DharmaHelper]

I agree with Roxy and TH about SVS . She almost always defends me if I come under attack . I don't think DH or Aces has been in a game that it has happen in but it has happen more then once where she defended me and I was bad and she was civvie.

I don't judge people based on past games, I judge them based on the game they are currently playing.

Also, you probably could have phrased that part in bold slightly better.

Says the human autocorrect.

It's not about the grammar. It's that one interpretation of that could be that Bass is admitting he's bad and S~V~S is defending him.

Bass *was* bad and SVS *was* defending him. Or do you mean Bass 2.0?

[AceofSpaces]

I agree with Roxy and TH about SVS . She almost always defends me if I come under attack . I don't think DH or Aces has been in a game that it has happen in but it has happen more then once where she defended me and I was bad and she was civvie.

I don't judge people based on past games, I judge them based on the game they are currently playing.

Also, you probably could have phrased that part in bold slightly better.

Says the human autocorrect.

It's not about the grammar. It's that one interpretation of that could be that Bass is admitting he's bad and S~V~S is defending him.

Bass *was* bad and SVS *was* defending him. Or do you mean Bass 2.0?

Update the damn player list, host!

Dead players subbing in for other people is confusing.

[Long Con]

Votes are changeable, so I'm going to join the list of people who have already voted. I voted for S~V~S because I agree with everything Dharamahelper is saying. She has not done anything that has thrown off my day 1 suspicion of her.

Your pictures are working MM.

You showed up for your ninth post of the game very soon after I called you out for only having 8 posts. And this S~V~S vote is very sketchy. I'll also join the list of people who have already voted. *votes Aces*

I posted because it's when I have time to post. Don't give yourself so much credit. It literally had nothing to do with you.

And I suspected S~V~S day 1, and day 2. Day 1 I voted for her, but didn't have enough time or energy to convince everyone else. So, how is my S~V~S vote "sketchy"?

These are the reasons I was pinged by your post.

1. I thought that opening with "votes are changeable etc" was slightly suspicious language, it gave me the impression that you're leaving a back door open in case things go wrong with that vote. It's not too bad of a sentence really, it only gave me a slight ping, barely making it as a thing on this list.

2. Your vote based on "everything DH is saying" made me feel , to put it in Smilese. It probably makes me more suspicious because of your extreme low-lying play and lack of posts. To come in and say "I'll have what he's having" is just sketchy, surely you can see that.

3. Voting off a Day One suspicion gets more and more questionable as the game goes on. Granted, you're only 10 posts in to the game, but most of us have discussed a bunch of things, things have progressed some beyond Day One.

That's why I found your S~V~S vote sketchy. I also found your blindfaeth vote to be sketchy, as I've said. And to really seal the deal of a vote on you, was the idea that baddies without BTSC are reasonably likely to be laying low, a waiting game until they can get found by Blacksmith. Bass 1.0 was.

1. In case things go wrong with that vote? I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Are you trying to say in case I change my mind? In case a better option presents itself? In case S~V~S does or says something that makes me think she isn't bad? Because none of those things are a bad reason to change someones vote. If we have to option to change our vote, why not take advantage of it? That's a weak reason for calling something "sketchy" and you know it. Clearly I know it, I tried to convey that very weakness in my own post.

2. Would you feel better if I quoted DH? Or if I spent 20 minutes rehashing everything he's said. I don't like doing that. He's made a better case than I could, and instead of making redundant post that say basically the same thing, I'm just agreeing with him. Prehaps the case would be helped if these points were conveyed from your own perspective, in your own words. Instead of quoting everything he said, you could say it yourself. Even if you feel the same, you speak differently, so if you want other people to believe in the case, another perspective can only help.

3. Sometimes you just have a feeling on someone. My gut tells me S~V~S is bad. Also, you are misunderstanding why I voted for S~V~S. It isn't just because she was suspicious day one. I am taking into account recent events as well. I understand better now, and I would say it's a direct result of you posting more and having discussion.

My vote for bf was a result of me not having time to read through the thread properly and make an informed decision. I misread the situation there, and I'd do things differently if I could. My vote for S~V~S is a result of me reading through DH's case and finding that it lines up with a lot of m own thoughts.

My thoughts are in this colour within your quote.

[FZ.]

I think I agree with TH on most everything. I keep wondering about BF. He's definitely lowered his level of participation. I always believe that

I don't think baddies try to look obstructive like he did last day. If they are, it's usually unintentional. Now comes the part of the WIFOM, but that's how I see it.

LC, you still haven't told me what you think of BR. Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well. She's practically non existent.

Aces, what did you really hope to achieve by your vote yesterday? It didn't look like anyone was going to follow that. Why just waste a lynch? It's making you look pretty bad in my eyes. Also, if you already wasted a vote, why not just vote for SVS if your so convinced she's bad?

[AceofSpaces]

I think I agree with TH on most everything. I keep wondering about BF. He's definitely lowered his level of participation. I always believe that

I don't think baddies try to look obstructive like he did last day. If they are, it's usually unintentional. Now comes the part of the WIFOM, but that's how I see it.

LC, you still haven't told me what you think of BR. Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well. She's practically non existent.

Aces, what did you really hope to achieve by your vote yesterday? It didn't look like anyone was going to follow that. Why just waste a lynch? It's making you look pretty bad in my eyes. Also, if you already wasted a vote, why not just vote for SVS if your so convinced she's bad?

As I explained to LC, it was an ill-informed vote made because I didn't have the time to properly read and digest the thread.

[Bullzeye]

In case anyone was wondering, I'm not silenced or anything like that. I've been super ill for the past couple of days Still feeling a bit crappy but getting better and thought I'd just check in here. I might come back later if I feel better but more likely tomorrow.

[Long Con]

I think I agree with TH on most everything. I keep wondering about BF. He's definitely lowered his level of participation. I always believe that

Unfinished thought there?

LC, you still haven't told me what you think of BR. Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well. She's practically non existent.

We have been having some Internet issues here, and most of my posting for the last week has been though my phone's internet. I know she's a bit frustrated with that. I don't really read her current participation as alignment-based.

[FZ.]

I think I agree with TH on most everything. I keep wondering about BF. He's definitely lowered his level of participation. I always believe that

I don't think baddies try to look obstructive like he did last day. If they are, it's usually unintentional. Now comes the part of the WIFOM, but that's how I see it.

LC, you still haven't told me what you think of BR. Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well. She's practically non existent.

Aces, what did you really hope to achieve by your vote yesterday? It didn't look like anyone was going to follow that. Why just waste a lynch? It's making you look pretty bad in my eyes. Also, if you already wasted a vote, why not just vote for SVS if your so convinced she's bad?

As I explained to LC, it was an ill-informed vote made because I didn't have the time to properly read and digest the thread.

It didn't look like it when you voted. Didn't you say something about being interested to see where Rabbit was going with his suspicion?

[FZ.]

I think I agree with TH on most everything. I keep wondering about BF. He's definitely lowered his level of participation. I always believe that

Unfinished thought there?

LC, you still haven't told me what you think of BR. Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well. She's practically non existent.

We have been having some Internet issues here, and most of my posting for the last week has been though my phone's internet. I know she's a bit frustrated with that. I don't really read her current participation as alignment-based.

LOL, yeah, I keep doing things, and then coming back to the computer and writing things. I meant to say that I always think it's a lot easier for baddies to post more on the first few days, then it is later. They usually become quieter then. So I'm not sure I like the fact that BF is laying lower these days.

Okay, thanks for the answer. Just too many people not really posting

[Black Rock]

I think I agree with TH on most everything. I keep wondering about BF. He's definitely lowered his level of participation. I always believe that

I don't think baddies try to look obstructive like he did last day. If they are, it's usually unintentional. Now comes the part of the WIFOM, but that's how I see it.

LC, you still haven't told me what you think of BR. Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well. She's practically non existent.

Aces, what did you really hope to achieve by your vote yesterday? It didn't look like anyone was going to follow that. Why just waste a lynch? It's making you look pretty bad in my eyes. Also, if you already wasted a vote, why not just vote for SVS if your so convinced she's bad?

Like LC said, we are having huge internet issues. I have informed the host about this. I'm getting my brother-in-law to look at it tonight and see if we can get it fixed. It's been up and down like a toilet seat and I have ran out of data on my phone and can't afford to go over.

I am trying to keep up and will be doing better in the future, if I can't I will ask to be replaced.

Well I have time, I don't understand the case on LC at all. It seems stretchy at best. I am intrigued by the Aces/SVS thing. I kinda mildly suspect them both so I'm hoping I can do some reading into this later. I wish I had more at this point but my head hasn't been able to stay in the game much to get a good feel.

[rabbit8]

You never understand the case on LC, ever..... :P

[FZ.]

So, Aces just said he voted for BF because he didn't have time to view the thread properly.

As I explained to LC, it was an ill-informed vote made because I didn't have the time to properly read and digest the thread.

He also said it when he made the vote:

I voted for Blindfaeth I'm sorry I haven't been more active. It was a busy weekend for me. I'll be posting more as the week goes on.

Then, when Timmer asks him to explain his vote, he says he's still suspicious of SVS, but is more interested in Rabbit's certainty.

@long con, could you expand on your bf vote? Rabbit feels a bit like he is being forced and also is calling you out. And you vote along with him. Can you expand on your thoughts regarding that?

This ^^

And FZ, for me weak suspicion TH is bad TH. I am fairly sure this is how he views me too (and he's right, tbh). He ha had my attention ever since he applied to be Epis sidekick. Still not sure about Epi, but not AS sure as I was yesterday.

Linki~ I would also like to know what happened to Aces suspicion of me.

I'm still watching you. But I am more interested in rabbit's certainty with bf.

If Aces didn't have enough time to read the thread properly:
a. How did he know Rabbit was certain about BF? He'd have to read the thread.
b. Again, why not vote for SVS who he was already and still suspicious of, and instead vote for someone else when you don't really know what's going on?

[FZ.]

And sorry to hear you're having problems BR
I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts when you get back the connection

[Bass_the_Clever]

Aces are you busy with RL stuff or are is it just a lack of interest? It seems like you know whats going on in the thread but some of the stuff you are saying is confusing like FZ pointed out.

[AceofSpaces]

So, Aces just said he voted for BF because he didn't have time to view the thread properly.

As I explained to LC, it was an ill-informed vote made because I didn't have the time to properly read and digest the thread.

He also said it when he made the vote:

I voted for Blindfaeth I'm sorry I haven't been more active. It was a busy weekend for me. I'll be posting more as the week goes on.

Then, when Timmer asks him to explain his vote, he says he's still suspicious of SVS, but is more interested in Rabbit's certainty.

@long con, could you expand on your bf vote? Rabbit feels a bit like he is being forced and also is calling you out. And you vote along with him. Can you expand on your thoughts regarding that?

This ^^

And FZ, for me weak suspicion TH is bad TH. I am fairly sure this is how he views me too (and he's right, tbh). He ha had my attention ever since he applied to be Epis sidekick. Still not sure about Epi, but not AS sure as I was yesterday.

Linki~ I would also like to know what happened to Aces suspicion of me.

I'm still watching you. But I am more interested in rabbit's certainty with bf.

If Aces didn't have enough time to read the thread properly:
a. How did he know Rabbit was certain about BF? He'd have to read the thread.
b. Again, why not vote for SVS who he was already and still suspicious of, and instead vote for someone else when you don't really know what's going on?

S~V~S asked me to explain my vote, note Timmer.

I don't think I've ever said I haven't been reading the thread. There is a difference between not reading the thread and not being fully informed. I've done my best to at least skim through things.

[AceofSpaces]

Aces are you busy with RL stuff or are is it just a lack of interest? It seems like you know whats going on in the thread but some of the stuff you are saying is confusing like FZ pointed out.

At the very least I've been skimming through things. I voted for bf based on that skimming, but when I had the time I went and read the whole day back, and decided that bf wasn't the right place to vote. Hope that clears up the confusion.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Aces are you busy with RL stuff or are is it just a lack of interest? It seems like you know whats going on in the thread but some of the stuff you are saying is confusing like FZ pointed out.

At the very least I've been skimming through things. I voted for bf based on that skimming, but when I had the time I went and read the whole day back, and decided that bf wasn't the right place to vote. Hope that clears up the confusion.

Thanks it helps.

[Spacedaisy]

SD, I'm on the fence regarding Long Con. I see your points about him appearing very helpful etc. but I think I've seen him do that a few games recently, so I'm sure how to read it. And I feel like his Magenta tilde breakdown is likely correct, so it IS a bit surprising that the lynch stop hasn't happened yet. I don't really think he's civ necessarily, just... I'm meh on him. Not sure one way or the other. But your case seems based on gut, which I respect but it can be hard to jump onboard someone else's gut feeling, you know?

My problem with him, and my gut feeling is based not on his tilde breakdown. I have no problem with that. My read on him is how he keeps calling for magenta to pardon a lynch or excusing his vote as soon as it is cast it seemed on the basis "magenta will probably pardon you." I just do not see any reason why a civ would think that relying on an Indy that only need survive to win, would expect the Indy would use their lynch pardon to help the civs. I don't buy it from LC, I think he is a better and more experienced player than that, this combined with his misinterpretation, which I found troubling but not condemning on its own is what makes me feel super uncomfortable with him right now.

What is the misinterpretation you speak of?

And it's because I'm an experienced player that I believe Magenta's best move is to sacrifice the lynch save to gain the BTSC. Why don't you agree? An indy that just needs to survive to win has to avoid lynches AND nightkills. Gaining BTSC with the Detectives would help a great deal on both fronts.

I wasn't trying to make it look some certain way, that implies manipulation. I was stating outright the way it read to me, and in the same post said maybe you meant it differently than it read. If I were trying to manipulate it, I would not have given you an out.

Well, you gave me an out, and I confirmed that you were reading it wrong, and you still believe that you read it right? That's... not really much of an out, is it? It's more of an out for you than for me.

And my posts on Llama are not that open to interpretation... I'm pretty clear in what I say in them. You haven't actually explained how to read them your way, maybe if you could do that, it would help your case?

I never said I still believe I read it right. I said even dropping that I still find your actions suspect.

[Spacedaisy]

As for other things -

Daisy - LC has been doing the helpful thingin every game I have ever played with him - I mean he is no aapje but he does do this always irregardless of alignment. Right now I am not seeing your case on him.

DH- you never responded to me but I also think SVS does this mamam bear thing often. I am not sure if she is bad this game tbh I am feeling she isn't.

bf - others are right your posts read as sour grapes inre: the Bass lynch. I must say it twitched my nose.

I do not see where everyone is getting this helpful recent trend shit from? I did not use this as my basis for not trusting him, so why is this even a thing?

[Spacedaisy]

Sometimes I feel like playing mafia is somewhat akin to talking to a wall for me anymore. In death note I didn't comment on the fact things I said were largely ignored because I was bad and did t want to draw attention to myself unnecessarily, but here it is just plain annoying. Does anyone want to discuss LC? Or am I the only one who feels bad about him?

I do want to comment on one of your posts, but I just woke up. I will start the day with asking you how yours is going and giving you a hug though!

Awe thanks DH! Mine sucked, but I'm home now so it's better.

[Spacedaisy]

TH, I said fair enough, I still think you are suspicious meaning, "Iacknowledge that you are giving a defense, i, just not buying it." I can see how it looks like, you're right but I just going to suspect you anyway, which is not what I meant. I do think his actions around this magenta stuff is shady, but I am willing to vote somewhere else today and put him on a back burner seeing as how I'm apparently the only person suspecting him. In particular, I am perfectly fine with *voting Aces* for his vote on Day 1, his appearance and just dropping a vote onto the bandwagon here today.

LC to answer your question, the original misinterpretation of some win cons, which in all fairness you corrected later and I realize that, though I don't recall if it was after someone else commented or not. It is minor thing honestly, but it just adds to my greater concern of how you were handling lynches regarding magenta. Anytime someone seems to be vocally encouraging an idea that the lynch will most certainly be pardoned it makes me feel like civs are encouraged to not worry so much about where their votes are placed. It felt very off to me, and a good way to shirk one's own responsibility for their vote. I don't like it. Why would you as a seasoned mafia player ever think it is good strategy to rely on an Indy to do something for your team? It doesn't add up for me.

Regardless, I still am keeping you on my watch list, but I am more interested in Aces at the moment.

[S~V~S]

Guys, I am so sorry I was not here tonight, I am having some horrible car issues, and spent the whole night with my Dad & his friends, passing them wrenches & holding flashlights for them while they try to figure out why my car stopped working

Will be more present tomorrow.

And I still am not bad

[blindfaeth]

I don't really feel like I've been around less, but it may seem that way because it takes longer for me to catch up on the posts now that we are past fluff and a higher percentage of them are longer. Sorry it seems that way but it's not a vile scheme or something. I think we can agree that my content isn't laying low at least, I speak my mind and it gets me in trouble but I have to be true to me. If someone changing their behavior to be laying low interests you though, I'm wondering what your thoughts on bullz are for the same reason. And I think something may be off with sophie, I realize she is busy but in the time it took her to do some of those OT posts she could have quickly said I suspect x y and z players but instead gave excuses.

[Turnip Head]

I don't really feel like I've been around less, but it may seem that way because it takes longer for me to catch up on the posts now that we are past fluff and a higher percentage of them are longer.

I think it's fair to say your activity levels have dropped off, but I'm not seeing much of a change in the overall thread activity level. If anything it seems quieter in here now than it did Day 1, back when you were a relatively high poster. I must be missing these long, non-fluff posts of which you speak. But I'll admit, now that I'm experiencing the absolute madness that is the Champs game, my idea of a busy thread might be quite different from yours

Do you have any reads other than Bullz for not helping and Sophie for being OT? What do you think of SVS, Daisy vs LC, Aces etc. ? Do you genuinely suspect DH for going after SVS or was this an "on principle" vote because you don't agree with his methods?

FWIW I agree that Sophie could be trying harder to help when she is here, but I'm taking a wait-and-see approach with her still to see if she turns it around. Same thing with Bullz tbh, I'm feeling okay about him but he needs to step it up.

[Marmot]

don't have much to say other than still think all timmers should lynch .

Posting pictures is a pain in the , and talking about timmer certainly isn't helpful either.

[Marmot]

This smiley is dedicated to the deceased .

[Long Con]

Awwww... that's a sweet ass.

[Marmot]

Awwww... that's a sweet ass.

Finer than a blade of grass.

[timmer]

Sorry for the absence today, I was just very busy.

Reading back through Aces' posts, I think there could be something to the case against him. I'd actually like to know what Roxy thinks of Aces. Roxy has been an interesting combination of self-defence (understandable) and sort of lightweight comments about "nose twitches" and "watching people", but apart from her one big push against Epig, she has kind of held off ever since a few people in clouding me started eyeing her a bit. I sort of have an indy role in mind for her, and right now to get her a bit more engaged, I'm hoping she will sound off on Aces.

I'm still kind of down with a bullz lynch as well but I'm not very engaged on it, tbh. I've got to read back and see who supported Bass the most, to see how I feel about SVS/DH, etc.

[timmer]

So, going by a search of the word bass, it seem as though the only person to outright defend bass was S~V~S. I'm not sure that that means she is bad, generally she is a more subtle player than that, especially assuming that if she IS bad, she wouldn't even have been sure that bass was indeed a fellow baddie, thus even less reason to stick her head out.

Next is to study the bullz voters and see which of them simply never mentioned bass at all.

[Long Con]

I just don't think that's as useful as it usually would be, due to Bass very likely being a lone baddie at the time of his lynch.

[Marmot]

So, going by a search of the word bass, it seem as though the only person to outright defend bass was S~V~S. I'm not sure that that means she is bad, generally she is a more subtle player than that, especially assuming that if she IS bad, she wouldn't even have been sure that bass was indeed a fellow baddie, thus even less reason to stick her head out.

Next is to study the bullz voters and see which of them simply never mentioned bass at all.

What does it matter? Since timmer replaced back into the game, wouldn't that mean that timmer never had baddie BTSC, so it is unlikely that any players voted for the second place lynchee to try to lynch that timmer over the lynched timmer.

[Marmot]

^^^What timmer said.

[Long Con]

^^^What timmer said.

I am the timmer of the hour at this point.

[timmer]

I'm not long for this day, I'm falling asleep at the laptop, so I'll try to make this brief. I don't trust SpaceDaisy one bit.

I invite everyone to read her posts for themselves, to get the full picture, because I'm about to summarize them and condense them quite a bit.

Day 1 - Daisy mentions Long Con quite a few times, but ends the day with this summary of her feelings regarding his posts:

Rabbit, as far LC's comment, I have read most of his actions so far as being those of an Indy. But that doesn't mean he actually is an Indy, he could just as easily be a civ or a baddie trying to seem as non-threatening to the other alignment as possible. Which didn't work well for the yotsuba, so I doubt it will here either. But that is just my opinion so far.

She also interacts with blindfaeth quite a bit, and summarizes her feelings regarding his posts like this:

Here is what I find odd. BF did some early baddie hunting, but he seemed to switch gears very abruptly and go silly for a while when some people defended against what he said and a couple others seemed to disagree with him. It felt really weird to me, but frankly I'm not sure what to make of it and I'm not all together sure my view of him isn't colored by my interaction with him so quickly into the game. Plus I feel like I just don't have any good experience reading him.

She then votes him, saying this to FZ:

Yeah, I am feeling BF being civ less and less as time goes by. He totally mischaracterized your case against llama...

I'm going to put my vote on Bf right now.... We'll see if anything changes my mind

Fair enough for a Day 1.

Then four days go by! That last post was Apr 23rd, Daisy does not post anything until Apr 27th.

That first post back?

Th, you seem to be a bundle full of non suspicions. I get that you say you suspect roxy, but she's silenced. And you're looking at ika and soneji, but they are lower posters and also new to our forum and unfamiliar with our customs. I have a hard time believing you can't come up with something more convincing. These three are an easy out for coming up with suspects on day 2.

If this were the case then I would say that either Epi or Bullz are baddies with him because they seem like the easier lynch candidate for today to me....

And since there are 6 players who haven't posted, that could account for 3 pairs of BTSC.

I don't understand this thought. Why would having not posted = BTSC? In my experience, people with BTSC tend to be more engaged with the thread because their conversations BTS keep them invested. For my part, I simply have had a busy couple days.

I voted for Blindfaeth I'm sorry I haven't been more active. It was a busy weekend for me. I'll be posting more as the week goes on.

Wait, what? I suspected BF Day 1, but the landscape has changed now and I think at the moment there is no real good reason to suspect him, but you came in and voted him?

I'm not talking about when you do an obvious screw up. I'm talking about when you play the game and people just start going after you.

I think anyone would be mad. In fact, I know it. I'm quite annoyed that I might be lynched as a civ day 2 because of a case that makes no sense. If anything I'm more annoyed than I would be if I were bad.

Bullz dear, I love you, who way back. But surely it is not such a reach for someone to suspect a guy who went after and voted someone who flipped like llama did.

Frankly I was torn between bullz and bass, but the Aces vote makes me want to lynch bullz at this point and see what happens with bass from here. There are some other things that bear watching I think, but that is another subject.

*votes bullz*

If I'm wrong, at least you will be publicly vindicated when you flip, right? Better than getting killed by the civ ninja... I don't think this is a bad vote though.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems clear that Daisy completely read the thread and was caught up. She skipped voting for Bass and instead voted Bullz... because Aces voted BF? Like, what? She is CLEARLY caught up, as she refers to the landscape changing on BF. And yet her reasoning for voting bullz instead of Bass is that Aces voted BF, which makes NO SENSE.

So then Bass gets lynched. He's bad. Daisy gives a shout to DH for doing a good job? No mention of how Long Con actually started the case against Bass.

The next day starts. Does Daisy take this opportunity to go back and flesh out those things she had thought about from the previous day? Discuss why she voted Bullz? Mention Aces anymore, since she found his vote for bf so pingy?

NO.

It's right into Long Con (the guy who started the case against Bass, a baddie). (the next post is heavily shortened)

So, I am frankly not feeling Log Con this game at all. Allow me to explain what I see so far that I really don't like...

If I am not, his turnaround to this next post seems odd. Especially since he didnti say anything regarding llama in the intervening posts.

Now he starts in on assuming Magenta will use a lynch stop Day 1. The following posts all deal with this:

Frankly, these posts read a lot to me like a lack of taking responsibility for your own vote. It's easy to cast a vote, preface it with, oh he probably won't die anyway, then when he does die, you can shake your fist and blame someone else. I think it is foolishness to expect an Indy whose only goal is to survive to use the lynch save on someone other than themself. I expect more from you LC. Your musings surrounding the roles of the indies so far has been questionable at best, I just don't understand your purposes.

Like, wha? You previously found LC's helpful posts to be the sign of an indy at worst. And LC started the case against a New Rogue. But with no mention of Aces (weird vote) or Bullz (who you JUST voted for), it's the Long Con is bad show.

This is followed by a whole bunch of "I just don't think LC is good" posts.

And then I think Daisy realized she was getting nowhere and flipped herself back over to Aces.

TH, I said fair enough, I still think you are suspicious meaning, "Iacknowledge that you are giving a defense, i, just not buying it." I can see how it looks like, you're right but I just going to suspect you anyway, which is not what I meant. I do think his actions around this magenta stuff is shady, but I am willing to vote somewhere else today and put him on a back burner seeing as how I'm apparently the only person suspecting him. In particular, I am perfectly fine with *voting Aces* for his vote on Day 1, his appearance and just dropping a vote onto the bandwagon here today.

For the record, Aces voted SVS day 1. I'm guessing you meant Day 2. But this clearly feels like an about-face.

None of these suspicions have any flow. They don't feel natural, they start and stop as needed. And there was never ANY MENTION of Bass.

Daisy is bad. Imma vote her.

[S~V~S]

I myself have been pinged like hell by LC since his leadup to the Llama vote, even before Llama flipped civ. But his general demeanor feels civ to me, even if his words do not, so I am in the air about him. Certainly I can understand what Diasy is saying, and while I am not anywhere near as sure as she is, I also do not think she is suspicious for saying what she says.

I certainly also thought Aces Day Two vote seemed somewhat odd to me. BUT I have no intention of voting for him unless I have to save. I can see civ reasons for his actions vote-wise as well as the potential bad ones. A lot of the theorizing in this game has been predicated on baddies BTSC, but, at least initially, there is just as much civ/civ aligned BTSC to account for sudden suspicion changes not necessarily being suspect.

Looking at the other people with votes, I don't particularly suspect Bullz or DH either. If DH was bad, he would have cozened me a bit more, since he knows I respond to it, especially right after I behaved like textbook me by trusting Bass. He would have ignored my vote, and not been the one to shine light on it. I am still missing the Bullz thing. And I think his game has been all about defense, so he can't act normally, so he is basically being judged on his reaction to a Day One ping. This is something I understand intimately. In any case, if I did not potentially need to save, I would not be voting for any of them.

I should be home tonight; if I do have to go do anything automotive (Dad has called in his mechanic, so I don't know) I will remember to bring my tablet & charger. Last night I couldn't even really check on phone since I needed to preserve my battery.

And yeah, TH is right. I really need to stop trusting people I feel somewhat protective about.

[Roxy]

Are we allowed to discuss Chatzy chats from the Map and what people say there?

[S~V~S]

Thta's a good question. I have only had a Map Chat with one person, and don't think anything we said would be particularly edifying, but other chats may have had a few twists.

[FZ.]

I like Timmer's case on SD. Though I have some hesitations and other thoughts
1. I think she might have meant that she's voting Bullz because she thought Aces was trying to save him. That said, she gave a pretty shitty excuse for if he flips civvie. "If I'm wrong, at least you will be publicly vindicated when you flip, right? Better than getting killed by the civ ninja... " For real?
2. The post where she sounded frustrated that no one was listening to her on LC, felt genuine. There;s that part when she talks about being ignored when she was a baddie, but that it didn't concern her much then, but now, it's different. Don't know if it's real or supposed to make us go WIFOM.
3. She's another example of those who started out "big" and have been a lot less active. Is it because it's harder now and she has more to hide?
4. I agree that her lack of following on her suspicions from day to day is worrying.

TH, Roxy is back. She was your top suspect last day, yet you've barely done anything with it. Have I missed something?

[Mister Rearranger]

Are we allowed to discuss Chatzy chats from the Map and what people say there?

Vaguely. I believe it was LC who askeda similar question earlier in the thread. No mentions of specfic squares allowed.