[ENDGAME] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

Moderator: Community Team

Who killed MM? (not changeable)

Poll ended at Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:25 pm

Devin
0
No votes
SpaceDaisy
3
38%
Golden
0
No votes
Gumshoe
0
No votes
nijuukyugou
0
No votes
SVS 2.0
1
13%
The Urban Cowboy (non/dead)
4
50%
 
Total votes: 8
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JaggedJimmyJay
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3351

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

nijuukyugou wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm willing to switch back to Bass. i would love a response from ninja though to my question. sorry about the hot sugar. :P
As for your question, my post was originally for bass that day but then I was multitasking (haha a theme) in looking at cobalt's vote record. I got so excited at my "discovery" that I didn't even notice I left the post like that.

it's all good!
let's revisit this discovery you made about Cobalt:
nijuukyugou wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Between Bass and Cobalt i'd vote Bass. i honestly don't understand why Cobalt is being regarded with such suspicion.
I agree with this, looking back at the case on Bass, his posts, and his voting record.

I looked back at Cobalt, too. One of the major reasons I've been after him is not simply the abrasive manner, but for what I believed to be a lie about his Day 1 vote. For some reason I was having a change of heart about him today until I looked back at his voting record:

Day 1 - Votes SVS (indy), claims he would've switched back to vote LC ten minutes after the poll ended but was too busy.
Day 2 - Votes LC, survives lynch
Day 3 - Votes LC on the day sig (Baddie Team Webber) was lynched
Day 4 - Votes LC (Baddie Team Wildhorn)
Day 5 - Votes MM (the only vote) on the day G-Man (Baddie Team Webber) was lynched
Day 6 - Votes Black Rock, TinyBubbles is lynched
Day 7 - Votes Black Rock (corrupted, likely Team Wildhorn according to night book puzzle)

I thought it was the Day 1 vote fiasco that pinned him as bad for me, but he did eventually vote LC out several times. However, the dude has avoided voting Team Webber completely and I don't even know how I didn't notice it before (maybe it was the abrasive manner as a distraction!). You sly devil :clap: I will be voting for you now.
i'd be willing to give you Cobalt's vote during the sig lynch as reasonably suspicious since it was early, before the sig avalanche. however, how would you assert Cobalt's vote during the G-Man lynch was really evasive of a Team Webber lynch when his vote came after 10 people had already voted G-Man? remember, you're saying you made this discovery about Cobalt and it was so compelling to you that you literally forgot what you'd said about Bass in this very same post.

walk me through it. why was it that compelling? show me your civilian mindset behind this.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3352

Post by Bass_the_Clever »

Epignosis wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Note that Bass has not voted to save himself.
That means nothing to me besides that he's lazy, like usual.
I don't agree. I've been on a team with Bass before.
Thank you.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3353

Post by Dom »

The Trivia Game will go up tomorrow at 10:30 PM EST

Let me know if that time is horrifically bad for a majority of you.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3354

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Not lazy just super busy. If I die I think everyone should take a look at scotty, notice how he is always trying to bring up the people who arent around and dont post. It could be him trying to get people to vote the non posters and then he could kill the more vocal players. Its kinda a smart plan.
Bass, please show me another example of Scotty doing this to a player who is not you.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3355

Post by Epignosis »

Dom wrote:The Trivia Game will go up tomorrow at 10:30 PM EST

Let me know if that time is horrifically bad for a majority of you.
I can play at that time.
Stream my music for free: https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3356

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

do we only have 5 minutes or 1 hour and 5 minutes? Norway time keeps screwing me up
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3357

Post by Bass_the_Clever »

JJJ you keep saying that you want to get people tallking more about other people but why arent you using some of the stuff you did in the last game we played together like the Gun to the Head reads?
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3358

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Bass_the_Clever wrote:JJJ you keep saying that you want to get people tallking more about other people but why arent you using some of the stuff you did in the last game we played together like the Gun to the Head reads?
i haven't had time to organize something like that. if i can get enough people present on Day 10 and have an opportunity, assuming i'm alive, i'll give it a shot.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3359

Post by Scotty »

JJJ there's 2 minutes

Dom that time works for me!
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather;
not screaming like the people in his car
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3360

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

i am reading Bass more town than ninja right now.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3361

Post by Dom »

FYI you can all change your time zone settings so it says the right time for you.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3362

Post by Dom »

Act One, Scene Nine
ENTER BASS WITH STOOL. SITS CS

Bass: Jamie is over and where can I turn?
Covered in scars I did nothing to earn
Maybe there's somewhere a lesson to learn...
But that would change the fact
That would speed the time
Once the foundation's cracked...



A TRAP DOOR OPENS AND BASS PLUNGES INTO THE DEPTHS


Bass has been lynched. He was The Last Five Years.
It is now Night 9. You have until 10:15 EST on July 14th to get your pms in.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3363

Post by Bass_the_Clever »

Mic Drop
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3364

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

*prolonged fart noise*
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3365

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

There are pretty clearly mafia on that Bass wagon. At least one. I know where my focus will be tomorrow.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3366

Post by Scotty »

That's 2 terrible reads in a row for me. I want to kill myself.
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather;
not screaming like the people in his car
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3367

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Day 8 was a dumpster fire. Day 9 was a dumpster fire until the last two hours. Day 10 has to be better or this game is going to fall apart for town really quick. I don't just mean the results of the lynches -- I mean the inactivity and groupthink. I don't mean to be a jerk, I am just saying that stuff can't keep happening.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3368

Post by nijuukyugou »

I hate everything. I hate the baddies. I'm so irritated I need to leave.

At least I probably won't die tonight :sigh:
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3369

Post by Scotty »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Day 8 was a dumpster fire. Day 9 was a dumpster fire until the last two hours. Day 10 has to be better or this game is going to fall apart for town really quick. I don't just mean the results of the lynches -- I mean the inactivity and groupthink. I don't mean to be a jerk, I am just saying that stuff can't keep happening.
I will take credit for having tunnel vision the past few days. I apologize, and vow (if I survive tonight) that I'll do more listening. But groupthink was a big problem the past few days, and I'm totally receptive to other thoughts. The fact there was any traction on ninja towards only the last 2 hours tonight also makes me want to pull my hair out. Changeable votes are a gift. Why not vote early suspicions, instead of attempting to lock it down last second?

I'm still confident that one of nutella/splints is bad (though Splints backed off of Bass to an extent). Nutella was staunchly anti-Bass throughout the game, and I suspected her regardless of the Bass suspicions. Bass flipping good leads me to believe she is bad.
Ninja will get my full attention as well tomorrow, (should I still be alive)
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather;
not screaming like the people in his car
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3370

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

No single person is to blame. I wasn't as active as I'd like to be given other time constraints, but that should be over now. Golden wasn't kidding when he asserted I might contend for the post count lead. ;)

Bass and Cobalt were both very easy targets, and there was a lot of overlap in the people who voted for them as I mentioned before. I think that space should be a goldmine for suspects.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3371

Post by Scotty »

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Not lazy just super busy. If I die I think everyone should take a look at scotty, notice how he is always trying to bring up the people who arent around and dont post. It could be him trying to get people to vote the non posters and then he could kill the more vocal players. Its kinda a smart plan.
I WANT there to be more vocal people. That's kind of what I've been saying all along. Having non-posters hurts us more than it helps us for sure.
Me smart? I'm not that bright. I haven't had a math class since my sophomore year of high school and I only got into college because I was pretty.
Or something like that.

Someone like Bass seems like a good target for Wildhorn and Webber alike, because he has been participating, although minimally enough, (unlike about 5-6 people on the player list) that he could be a high profile civ role keeping a low profile.

It sucks. It really sucks, and this is purely speculation, and probably holds no bearing but if I were dealt a shitty role and knew I wasn't going to have that long to commit to a game, I would maybe be MIA too. Though that's mroe hypothetical because I would never just willingly leave a game after it started.I don't mean to judge absences in the game as a sign of alignment, but I feel like absences have been a big part of this one. I don't know what real life reasons have pulled those people from the game- hell, shit happens- I'm just saying objectively it's not a positive for civs.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3372

Post by Sloonei »

aw damn, golden passed me
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3373

Post by Canucklehead »

Fuck, sorry I missed it. Was out witz my curling team adorer pué GLORIOUS VICTORY and celebrating our new rims as league champs. Drank too much must sleep. Joe.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3374

Post by Marmot »

I'm here and ready to perform. I've played abysmally the last few weeks in all my games and need a chance at redemption.

And I apologize Bass, I placed my vote on you just to pressure you into talking more. I didn't mean to keep it there.
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3375

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm here and ready to perform. I've played abysmally the last few weeks in all my games and need a chance at redemption.

And I apologize Bass, I placed my vote on you just to pressure you into talking more. I didn't mean to keep it there.
If you weren't going to be around to see the results of that pressure, could pressure have really been a genuine motive for your vote?

:suspicious:
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3376

Post by S~V~S »

Can we please lynch Ninja now?
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3377

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

S~V~S wrote:Can we please lynch Ninja now?
i will enter Day 10 with her as a top suspect, but it's important to maintain a broad scope of the players remaining. who else do you suspect right now?
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3378

Post by Marmot »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm here and ready to perform. I've played abysmally the last few weeks in all my games and need a chance at redemption.

And I apologize Bass, I placed my vote on you just to pressure you into talking more. I didn't mean to keep it there.
If you weren't going to be around to see the results of that pressure, could pressure have really been a genuine motive for your vote?

:suspicious:
This looks like a rhetorical question, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, it is certainly plausible!
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3379

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Metalmarsh89 wrote:This looks like a rhetorical question, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, it is certainly plausible!
I never ask rhetorical questions in mafia. What would have done with your vote if you'd pulled it off of Bass as you claim to have intended?
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3380

Post by Tangrowth »

Hey all!

I hope this game is going well. I've popped in from time to time, I see we have some strange inactive cases.

Life happens, though, which I know well, between wedding prep and PhD kicking my ass. I really regret having to replace out, and wish I were still in or that I could replace back in, but I can't steal that from my awesome replacement. :noble:

Sadly, there were a solid couple of weeks I just couldn't find any time to play. I'll definitely be in for your next game, Dom!

Anyway, I'll shut up now. :P Happy mafia'ing, folks! Hope I get to play with all of you, but especially the new folks, in another game. :)
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3381

Post by Marmot »

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:This looks like a rhetorical question, but I'll answer anyway.

Yes, it is certainly plausible!
I never ask rhetorical questions in mafia. What would have done with your vote if you'd pulled it off of Bass as you claim to have intended?
I would have looked for another place to put it. I failed to do either of these things.
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3382

Post by nutella »

God damn it :|


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3383

Post by Marmot »

nutella wrote:God damn it :|


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.
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Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 7:33 pm Just how many days of "let's yeet them tomorrow" can a mafioso survive?

The answer: all of them, if you are a marmot.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3384

Post by Canucklehead »

nutella wrote:God damn it :|


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.
How many teammates do we think are left to be accomplishing these "pile ons" and "bandwagons"?
I mean, I agree the ninja is a good suspect for tomorrow and I will likely be voting there (if I can remember to actually fucking vote for once), but I'm not sure I buy the rationale that Bass was lynched in a Ninja save attempt.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3385

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

There was no "save attempt" of anyone except Bass, and it failed. Bass would have been lynched quietly if there hadn't been a streak of late ninja votes. I don't think that implicates ninja -- but her earlier Bass vote might. He was an easy target and it seems quite likely to me someone capitalized. It could have been ninja, it could have been someone else.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and reevaluate the last couple day phases. Find the opportunists.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3386

Post by Scotty »

nutella wrote:God damn it :|


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.
So I had based a lot of my suspicions primarily over the voting record, and then went back to people's posts to see what they said and why they voted. Bass was a Class A bandwagoner. As were you. The only time Bass voted independently from the group was for himself, and you. You called him out on Day 4, but voted insurance on LC instead of GMan or Bass.

Whats got me into trouble the past few days is my tunnel vision though. And I've been tunneling into you so hard as of late that I can't see day. I thought for a pinch that you had voted for Bass, but you never did until last night. I had it in my mind that you and he were bitter enemies and were on different teams based on how you guys accused each other. That is not the case and I apologize.

In regards to ninja, and this has been discussed slightly by other people, but I have a few cases while I'm tunneling on her:

CASE 1)
I was reading light civ on ninja yesterday until those 2 hours before the deadline last night, when at least 4 people were confident on her being bad.
nutella and ninja have almost identical voting records. That's interesting to me. The only recordable difference is their Day 1 votes. The main evidential difference is how systematic and strategic ninja's looks.
Day 3- one of the last to vote for sig. Her entire sig suspicion was a blurb in one post Day 2, where she says there may be some merit to
Day 4- Broke the tie on GMan/LC to vote for LC.
Day 5- one of the last to vote for GMan.

CASE 1.1)
Sig.
nijuukyugou wrote: I like [Sloonei's] sig case. I tend to get lost in large games with so many people to keep track of, especially near the beginning, and I'd forgotten about him. He's been weirding me out with the wishy-washy votes and posts, too.
nijuukyugou wrote:Crap. I lost track of time (I've kept up reasonably well today via phone, but I managed to get 3 pages behind in 8 hours. I'm going to trivia soon and I'm multitasking by studying up on The Big Lebowski for our loser pity round :biggrin:. I see many votes are on sig; I will go that way as well, today (I feel better about voting him than TBubbles). I like the cases presented on him from what I last read, and I had some bad feelings come from him, too. Sorry I'm not particularly articulate and for the drive-by vote.
sig wrote:Another drive by vote, *sigh* but I still say Nijukk is a strong town.
Timmer the mafia can silence I have never played a game were the town can.
Sig dies. Then ninja starts distancing herself from sig:
nijuukyugou wrote:Sloonei's first post analyzing connections to sig:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 69#p154469
I like most of this analysis, mainly for the commentary for LC being bad in connection to LC.

The other one also caught my attention for analyzing sig's so-called reads on people:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 89#p154489

I must comment on the last part for reasons. One is this, because it's driving me absolutely nuts:
sig wrote:0-10 10 highest 1 lowest
, nijuukyugou 5 she was less scum before her switching andthen saying she would just run and lynch
What in the name of god's green earth is this? I have done no vote switching this entire game. You see what happens to liars? :P I do like that sig tries to throw shade at me, calling me suspicious, then "hard civ" when he's on the way down, then wishy-washy'ing his way back to "suspicious." I see what you did there...well, kinda. Nice try.
Sloonei picks up on her lack of noticeable "pings" on sig by saying: "The inconsistency continues. If she was suspicious of sig for his Day 1 behavior, why is she not noticing/commenting on it until after he's been lynched?"
and her responses to Sloonei's interrogation of her were attempts to again distance herself from sig's "wishy-washy shade". She basically said she had a ping on him, but forgot to post about it..."I often end up reading pages of mafia posts at the ends of days and get pings as I read, but if I don't save the quotes that ping me or physically type out names as I go, I won't remember, but I'll remember how I felt when I do go back and look at people."
Very smooth, yet lacking substance.

CASE 1.2)
GMan.
nijuukyugou wrote:
Golden wrote:So I went back to look at timing.

Epi dies. Epi replaces in. Epi has (I think) only two posts - one where he says 'I know who killed me' and one where he says 'my suspicions haven't changed'. Then TGG asks to be subbed out.

I honestly think it's very consistent with someone who was part of a team that killed epi, that they killed them for cause, and was upset when he was able to sub back in and express the particular sentiments that he did. I think G-Man and LC are a team. I feel less sure that bubbles is, but she definitely could be.

Does it suck that someone subbing out on a matter of principle could sink a team? Yes. But this is why you should always keep your cool in mafia. I guarantee you, when people complain about things being unfair in this game, it's almost always mafia. Because they perceive it has harmed their chances. I don't think Epi's views necessarily held great weight, and I think the reaction to him subbing back in provides a whole lot more information about how important they believed killing epi to be.
This is a fascinating analysis and, since Epi seems to be silenced and absent, dare I say interesting thought process. I like the ideas posed here (about TGG perhaps getting frustrated and mafia getting frustrated in general). It's a bit of a stretch but entirely possible. However, I'd like to give G-Man the BOTD for today at least since he's a totally different player than TGG. We'll see how it goes.
nijuukyugou wrote:Yikes. Last time I checked, LC was way ahead of G-Man in votes, and now it's a tie? I'm not terribly surprised, given the number of people who've expressed suspicion of G-Man in the thread, but I thought we were avoiding this situation? Then again, as Sloonei has said several times, it's been a lot more quiet during this Day period. It's been nice for keeping up!

This is one of the weirdest mafia games I've played in a while, because I've been in agreement with the top cases almost every time. I probably should be more concerned about that than I am, but it does make it easier on me come voting time, and I guess I'll be more concerned if anything goes wrong this time around. I'm going to vote LC, because I've felt his baddiness since Day 1 and I've agreed with many of the cases and points brought up about him regarding this baddiness. I think the cases for G-Man being bad are pretty...er, good :grin: and I think voting for either will give us good info, but I gotta vote some way and LC's been on the chopping block for quite some time. I'm definitely still looking at Cobalt, too, especially since he's quieted down like crazy (hiding a bit?), but that vote would go nowhere today. So, voting LC.
Ninja doesn't post for 24 hours. Then, when GMan already has "the majority" for his fake ploy,
nijuukyugou wrote:
G-Man wrote:
TinyBubbles wrote:
G-Man wrote:Keep those votes coming! :feb:
happy to oblige :huh:
i knew there'd be a fair few votes on you but i didnt expect an avalanche

any last words gman?
Not yet. One more vote please. :feb:
Well, okay then :shrug:

CASE 2)
Sloonei was killed by Webber. Who was Sloonei's top suspect before that? Ninja.
Could it be a frame? Ehh...the pattern Webber has been killing every night has me thinking no. (spoiler alert- they've been rather transparent):

Night 1- Epi. Now he called out LC and Cobalt. You could call this a frame for team Webber. Had some civ vibes early on.
Night 3 & 5- Sloonei, who was universally civ and had some good reads on some bad people.
Night 7- timmer, who had ninja ranked as high profile lynch candidate below BR. Read as civ by a lot of people.

CASE 3)
Sloonei suggested that mafia would want a member on both sides of the aisle for the PMs. Only Sloonei, me, FZ and ninja received the PM about Jason Robert Brown. (Still wondering when- and if- the right time to talk about it is) I had FZ as a civ read, as well as Sloonei, so that leaves ninja.
Minor point- when asked about the 1st night PM in a lineup of MM, sig, nutella, TH and ninja, ninja was the only one to respond, which appears helpful.



I now have tunnel vision turned on, and I want to vote for ninja tomorrow.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3387

Post by fingersplints »

:rip: Bass

I will most likely be voting nijuu again tomorrow as well. I'm also looking into Nutella. I don't like her response (as it seems others have the same issue) about the bandwagon. I don't think the bass votes were to save nijuu considering most of Bass votes were cast before nijuu started taking more serious heat.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3388

Post by nijuukyugou »

Canucklehead wrote:I actually think that was a pretty great defense by Ninjigglypuff. :nicenod:
But now I don't know who to vote for. :(

IM SO CONFLICTED
Canucklehead wrote: Also, re: nimblebobo, I was definitely one of the people who thought her defense post was "good", but that doesn't mean I'm willing to remove her from suspicion. Like you said, she is a player who perhaps more than any other is fully capable of dressing up an otherwise so-so defense in a "so calm and reasonable and light-hearted that I couldn't possibly be bad!"- tone in a way that can be very convincing. So, while I *did* find her post reasonable and balanced (generally qualities that I associate more with civ than with mafia) she is not entirely exonerated. For instance, I still think the (relatively minor) point that Golden raised a loooong time ago about baddies wanting to make sure they have members in each of the night poll options was very very astute, and that is one major mark against Ninja that she can't sweet-talk her way out of; it just is what it is and I need to make up my mind about whether that piece of evidence is significant or not.
Canucklehead wrote:
nutella wrote:God damn it :|


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.
How many teammates do we think are left to be accomplishing these "pile ons" and "bandwagons"?
I mean, I agree the ninja is a good suspect for tomorrow and I will likely be voting there (if I can remember to actually fucking vote for once), but I'm not sure I buy the rationale that Bass was lynched in a Ninja save attempt.
nutella wrote:
Canucklehead wrote:I actually think that was a pretty great defense by Ninjigglypuff. :nicenod:
But now I don't know who to vote for. :(

IM SO CONFLICTED
Same yo. Niju's defense is definitely giving me pause, but I don't know who I even suspect anymore :\

Sounds to me like Epig is an indie with his own win condition. o_O
nutella wrote:God damn it :|


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.
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Do you not see this? Doesn't anyone else see this? This is the kind of BS that's been happening for DAYS. I could go through and pull so many quotes of people either totally disregarding any defense I have made, or actually agreeing with my defense but then backtracking and saying "but that totally doesn't make her good." What does that even mean? So you agree that I did a good job proving I was civ, but I'm not civ? That you came in at the last minute and tried to bandwagon on me? I didn't use "pretty words" to attempt to fool my audience - I used both logic and articulation to prove that I am a civ the best way that I could. (BTW this isn't directed only or necessarily at the people quoted above given missed votes, etc. but it applies to many.)

I am frustrated. I have actually never been so frustrated in a game before because I'm usually quite calm and roll with the punches. But I feel like I have done everything an accused civ should do, and it's not working. I have defended my own ass "admirably." I have remained calm. I have joked. I have avoided "NO U." I have done a little "NO U." I have made a case and gone after someone to get the heat off of me (y'know, because I kinda want the civs to win), and unfortunately, that turned sour. And then another vote turned sour. And now I'm doing the angry thing. You know what the baddies were doing last night? Laughing, because the only two people to receive votes were civs, and they have another easy day tomorrow if you let them. You're going to steamroll another civ, despite the LOGICAL LOGICAL LOGICAL evidence that you're ignoring in favor of "catching" me at something I'm not unless you turn off your tunnel vision. And what will happen afterwards? They'll say shit like this:
fingersplints wrote: She is very articulate, and can easily sway others with her words. And I think she plays a very good baddie game
They'll brush off the vote like I was the obvious choice, then move on to the next easy target.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:There was no "save attempt" of anyone except Bass, and it failed. Bass would have been lynched quietly if there hadn't been a streak of late ninja votes. I don't think that implicates ninja -- but her earlier Bass vote might. He was an easy target and it seems quite likely to me someone capitalized. It could have been ninja, it could have been someone else.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and reevaluate the last couple day phases. Find the opportunists.
Please for the love of god do this. I'm gonna, and I'll show my work. I'm going to do everything, everything I can to save my ass without losing another civ, but someone who doesn't have tunnel vision on me (although I don't know who that would even be anymore) needs to look at the opportunists and the sneaks, too. You wanna find a baddie or two? Look at both voting camps. Look at the not-so-obvious, the not-so-easy.

I'm done coming up with my own defenses because it's not working. It won't even be satisfying to say "I told you so" if you lynch me at this point. Ask me anything if you actually want to listen to an answer.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3389

Post by Canucklehead »

What do you make of Golden's long-ago theory that the baddies, seeking to cover all their bases and maximize their chances at advantage, made sure to have voters in both the Boubil&Schonberg night poll options? Does this seem plausible to you? If so, who do you think of the limited pool of Les Mis voters is most likely to be bad?
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3390

Post by Canucklehead »

^^ That was directed at AngryNinja ( :p ) because I actually want to listen to an answer.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3391

Post by Canucklehead »

nijuukyugou wrote:
Do you not see this? Doesn't anyone else see this? This is the kind of BS that's been happening for DAYS. I could go through and pull so many quotes of people either totally disregarding any defense I have made, or actually agreeing with my defense but then backtracking and saying "but that totally doesn't make her good." What does that even mean? So you agree that I did a good job proving I was civ, but I'm not civ? That you came in at the last minute and tried to bandwagon on me? I didn't use "pretty words" to attempt to fool my audience - I used both logic and articulation to prove that I am a civ the best way that I could. (BTW this isn't directed only or necessarily at the people quoted above given missed votes, etc. but it applies to many.)
Now, Ninjarjarbinks. You're being just a tad disingenuous here. Acknowledging that your defense was good (i.e. well-crafted) does not mean I "agree" with it or that you've "proven yourself civ", it just means that you have ably employed language in order to present a picture of yourself that ticks certain boxes on a "How to Sound Like a Civ" checklist (you summarize the checklist quite well later on in your post, so I needn't repeat it here). Being skillful at sounding like a civ in no way makes one a civ, it just makes them a good mafia player. ;) So, in response to your question, at least in my case "it" means I think your defenses have not made you seem MORE suspicious, and have done a good job of opening up doubt in my mind... which, obviously, in no way approximates actually "proving" that you are good. No defense, short of some massive info dumping, can do that. Such is mafia.
The thought processes you're so frustrated at are not "backtracking". They're logical.

That being said, I agree with both you and JJJ and SVS that we need to be talking about more suspects.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3392

Post by Scotty »

Was anyone silenced yesterday? If not, would it be farfetched to assume Cobalt (Parade) was the silencer? Leo Frank never really had a chance to speak up, and was basically slandered and framed, while his lawyer told him to remain silent.

And if the insanifier is still alive, it's going to be an even day tomorrow....so...
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3393

Post by nijuukyugou »

Looking for an opportunist? Look no further than fingersplints!

splints' vote record (the fractions are when she voted out of numbers of voters):
Day 1 - misses vote
Day 2 - Bass (2/2)
Day 3 - sig (9/11)
Day 4 - G-Man (5/6) --> LC vote
Day 5 - G-Man (7/13)
Day 6 - misses vote
Day 7 - Black Rock (5/7)
Day 8 - misses vote
Day 9 - nijuu (2/5)

splints is an opportunist extraordinaire. Some of these points may have been already pointed out, but this is also for my benefit to organize my own thoughts. Here we go:

She has gunned for Bass since the beginning of the game, citing his asking too many questions for her taste and not answering her fast enough. Bass is an easy target (as I can attest to participating in such in the last lynch :blush: ) because of his playstyle and periodic absences. He doesn't answer every question. It's, of course, easy to say this now that we know his alignment, but it does play a role in looking at people who suspected him. I digress.

She guns for Bass but only votes him once on Day 2, when it wasn't catching on. This is the least opportunistic thing she does all game, but the suspicion itself is easy to hold on to for the majority of the game, which she does. Next day, she leaves herself open to vote for Bubbles, Bass, or sig. Bubbles, because she feels her frustration is "genuine," but doesn't necessarily thinks she's good because of it. This is a trend. Bass, because she's been "suspicious" of him for reasons she stated, seeing if it'll catch on. But, realizing it's not, she says
fingersplints wrote:
Golden wrote:I think it's really because we are in a bit of a holding pattern. We need a lynch or two to get some info and get us moving again.
This. I will leave my bass suspicion until tomorrow. I'm voting sig.
and votes 9th out of 11 for sig. Ooh, how lucky! A baddie! FZ mentioned this point on Day 4 too:
fingersplints wrote:
FZ. wrote:Great result! :D

If I had to choose a voter for Sig from his own team, it would be Splints. I read back through the last hours before the post, and she seemed the one leaving the options open. She talked about 3 potential candidates for a vote: Bass, Bubbles and Sig, threw in some few thoughts why Sig would be a good option, but kept her vote until it was basically a done deal. In my eyes, she was leaving open options and was even talking more about Bass, maybe to get people on board, and when nothing changed, she placed the vote on Sig. This to me, was a classic baddie move. Just wanted to get it out there.
The thing about this being a "classic baddie move" is that it is also what civvies do. Discuss their top suspects in the thread and decide who to vote.
I agree the lynch was basically a done deal, but not quite as the day wasn't finished when I voted and it was still fairly close (plus changeable votes).
I don't expect to be in the clear with my vote by any means, but I don't see why FZ finds it so suspicious. She is correct about one thing though. I absolutely would have liked people to get on board with a bass vote because I think he is a baddie. I think his lynch would also have given us a baddie. I'm fairly confident I will be voting either him or Gman today.
The vote wasn't close at all - the person with the second highest number of votes was Bubbles with FOUR. She was 21st to vote, as well. And what happens to FZ? NK'ed.

Next day, she votes G-Man, with no prior mention of why she suspects him (only that she suspects him along with Bass), but takes time to say "I don't think Bubbles is bad" several times. This is how she defends a G-Man vote over LC:
fingersplints wrote:I'm not convinced LC is a civvie, but I can't see Gman being one at all. I don't have a lot of time tonight and am not sure I will be around much more before the lynch
This isn't even an explanation, but it's a great way to not vote for a teammate by jumping on the next best thing without being noticed. Next day is easy - vote G-Man again. Oh, how lucky! Another baddie!

And now, this, THIS is opportunistic as fuck:
fingersplints wrote:I think Timmers makes a pretty good case on BR. Her response doesn't really make me feel better. I don't think deflecting by accusing Timmer of deflecting is a great defense
I also agree with the points being made on TinyBubbles, and I think the possible connections there are easy to see. I don't see this as the same civvie game I have seen from her before.
I need to reread Dfaraday and MetalMarsh. I felt like MM was a bit aggressive when questioning me earlier about the tie/Epi comment, which struck me as odd at the time, but not enough to be suspicious of.
Dfaraday always sounds a bit suspicious to me, and i am also curious to hear a bit more about his suspicion of me.
I have been reevaluating my suspicion of bass. a lot of my suspicion was based of him being careful about his mentioning LC, but since that team seemed to try and kill him last night I feel a bit better about him. I second (or third or what not) the questioning if he knows how he survived.
She has been defending Bubbles all game. She has been defending BR all game. But suddenly she sees timmer's case as valid? And suddenly Bubbles isn't playing her civvie game? Your game-long Bass suspicion needs "re-evaluation"? And none of these other "suspicions" are committal whatsoever - they're all easy ways to say, "I was suspicious!" if they flip bad or "I wasn't that suspicious!" if they flip civ. They're all fabulous ways to vote wherever the tide takes you and hide in the crowd, whatever happens.

And this is exactly what she does. Votes Bubbles. Votes BR. And gets away with lynching a civilian, while oh! How lucky! Lynching a corrupted civ. Lookin' good, splints!

And let's talk about jumping on me. No prior pings of me. No suspicion. No comment on Sloonei's case or anyone's comments about me while they happen. But boy, when she's directly asked about me:
fingersplints wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
fingersplints wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
fingersplints wrote:@ SVS - I am looking into your ninja points. I think her responses sounded good, but as has been pointed out, they usually do.
what is your stance on ninja right now?
Leaning mafia atm
Why?
Rereading some of her posts, she calls sloonei's case on her nonsensical, but I think that it made sense. It seemed very dismissive. She also mentioned having more time and coming back later, but only has really added to the cobalt train.
The Cobalt train that you didn't bother to vote in. How convenient. And how convenient of you to jump on the first nijuu train a few hours before the poll ends with no prior mention or interaction with me. And what can she do in either case with this lynch? When Bass flips civ, she can say, "Well, I stopped suspecting him XD " and when I flip any alignment she can say
fingersplints wrote: She is very articulate, and can easily sway others with her words. And I think she plays a very good baddie game
Looking for an opportunist? Go for splints.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3394

Post by nijuukyugou »

Canucklehead wrote:
nijuukyugou wrote:
Do you not see this? Doesn't anyone else see this? This is the kind of BS that's been happening for DAYS. I could go through and pull so many quotes of people either totally disregarding any defense I have made, or actually agreeing with my defense but then backtracking and saying "but that totally doesn't make her good." What does that even mean? So you agree that I did a good job proving I was civ, but I'm not civ? That you came in at the last minute and tried to bandwagon on me? I didn't use "pretty words" to attempt to fool my audience - I used both logic and articulation to prove that I am a civ the best way that I could. (BTW this isn't directed only or necessarily at the people quoted above given missed votes, etc. but it applies to many.)
Now, Ninjarjarbinks. You're being just a tad disingenuous here. Acknowledging that your defense was good (i.e. well-crafted) does not mean I "agree" with it or that you've "proven yourself civ", it just means that you have ably employed language in order to present a picture of yourself that ticks certain boxes on a "How to Sound Like a Civ" checklist (you summarize the checklist quite well later on in your post, so I needn't repeat it here). Being skillful at sounding like a civ in no way makes one a civ, it just makes them a good mafia player. ;) So, in response to your question, at least in my case "it" means I think your defenses have not made you seem MORE suspicious, and have done a good job of opening up doubt in my mind... which, obviously, in no way approximates actually "proving" that you are good. No defense, short of some massive info dumping, can do that. Such is mafia.
The thought processes you're so frustrated at are not "backtracking". They're logical.

That being said, I agree with both you and JJJ and SVS that we need to be talking about more suspects.
Thank you for responding and clearing that up, and giving me a chance. I was frustrated when I wrote that because I feel like I'm digging to get myself out of a hole, but I've calmed down now :)

P.S. Your never-ending variations of my name never cease to amuse me XD
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3395

Post by nijuukyugou »

Canucklehead wrote:What do you make of Golden's long-ago theory that the baddies, seeking to cover all their bases and maximize their chances at advantage, made sure to have voters in both the Boubil&Schonberg night poll options? Does this seem plausible to you? If so, who do you think of the limited pool of Les Mis voters is most likely to be bad?
Oh, I certainly think it's valid. Every baddie team I've been on has had that strategy, so I wouldn't see them thinking any differently this game (unless there are a lot of absentee baddies that aren't discussing things). If I had to pick a baddie from the list of Les Mis voters, I'd go Scotty or FZ., but only because I haven't really looked at them. Sloonei is pretty much cleared up. I know I'm good :noble: So, yeah. That.

Now, I need to get off of here and do productive things, like start dinner. I probably won't be able to stay away, though :P
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3396

Post by Canucklehead »

So I have long promised to look back at Roger Rabbit to see if there are actually similarities between Ninja's posts there and her posts here, or if I've been misremembering/making false correlations.
I won't quote lots of posts here, or go into too much detail (but I do encourage you to glance at her posts there if you're interested in my thoughts here), but the basic story is this: Ninja was bad, I was able to basically "role check" her, and then I attempted to get her lynched by building a "case" on her by looking back at her posts with 20/20 hindsight since I knew her role.
THISwas Ninja's response to my "case", and to the subsequent and kind of out-of-nowhere (in her opinion) pile-up of votes on her. Though I didn't succeed in getting her lynched (fickle civvies! *shakes fist*), I think Ninja's frustration level in that post is reminiscent of her irritation here and now. Also similar is her resort to disparaging what she sees as a lack of sufficient substance in the reasoning behind the votes for her, and her implicit accusations of groupthink/bandwagon. Additionally, if you read through many of her other posts in that game, they are similar to this game in that her tone is overwhelmingly jolly/nice/cheerful (which is probably just her awesome personality! And which is super appreciated!), but then suddenly irritated when the heat gets on her.

However, what DOESN'T fit the pattern from that game is that Ninja's defense here is much more proactive (actively building cases, giving people the opportunity to question her and push her further, etc) whereas in RR she mostly just complained about people voting for her for no reason, then (once the lynch was evaded) went back to posting innocuous/OT/don't-rockl-the-boat type posts.

Overall, I think that this comparison between RR and this game leads me to believe Ninja is more likely to be civ than I previously thought, or she's done some cleaning up of her baddie game. The similarities between her posting in both games can easily be accounted for by consistent personality (everyone gets irritated when accused for what they perceive as thin reasons) rather than consistent alignment. I'm not convinced she's civ, but I'm definitely back on the fence.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3397

Post by DFaraday »

Ninja sounds very sincere, which could be excellent baddie acting, but I'm starting to think she may be civvie. I also think her points on Splints are good, as Splints has often voted late and in a bandwagony way. At the very least, this suggests that they're not teammates.
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3398

Post by S~V~S »

DFaraday wrote:Ninja sounds very sincere, which could be excellent baddie acting, but I'm starting to think she may be civvie. I also think her points on Splints are good, as Splints has often voted late and in a bandwagony way. At the very least, this suggests that they're not teammates.
"Starting to think"?

Early on, you mentioned Ninja very mildly as a "ping". You mention her on and off, more or less remaining pinged by her, while still finding excuses for her. Then you pretty much come out as pro-Ninja after Sloonei died, and have remained that way, so not sure where "starting to think" is coming from, tbh.

@JJJ I think you asked me who else I am wary of? Well, Faraday is one. I am someone who is a fan of not talking much at night, old school, I know, but I am old :P
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Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3399

Post by DFaraday »

S~V~S wrote:
DFaraday wrote:Ninja sounds very sincere, which could be excellent baddie acting, but I'm starting to think she may be civvie. I also think her points on Splints are good, as Splints has often voted late and in a bandwagony way. At the very least, this suggests that they're not teammates.
"Starting to think"?

Early on, you mentioned Ninja very mildly as a "ping". You mention her on and off, more or less remaining pinged by her, while still finding excuses for her. Then you pretty much come out as pro-Ninja after Sloonei died, and have remained that way, so not sure where "starting to think" is coming from, tbh.

@JJJ I think you asked me who else I am wary of? Well, Faraday is one. I am someone who is a fan of not talking much at night, old school, I know, but I am old :P
How have I been pro-Ninja? At no point before have I said or implied that Ninja was civ, just that I was feeling less sure about her than I had been. After her recent posts I would put her on the civ side of my rainbow list, if I had one.
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DFaraday
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:26 pm

Re: [Day 9] Bullets Over Broadway Mafia

#3400

Post by DFaraday »

Also, we don't even know whether Ninja is bad, so I don't know how not thinking Ninja is bad makes me suspect.
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