Watchmen [ENDGAME]

[Golden]

That's like soliciting prostitution, and her telling you it's free of charge, plus she has other gifts to offer. And you're thinking 'Jackpot!' But the gift turns out to be crabs

Is this the best description of MM's play style ever?

Catching up now. So far, I have found Scotty's responses to MP to be very genuine and measured, and I don't agree with the suspicion.

[Golden]

I think Bass and Lorab (opinion stands as I read, maybe more will step up) are a bit suspicious for saying they think G-Man was trying to dance around the Lie Detector. His statement, in my opinion, is totally kosher as an easy Lie Detect option. If he's a baddie, then a Lie Detect will catch him for that statement, plain and simple.

That's exactly what I think, LC. The wording G-Man used could hardly be considered to be an attempt to avoid the lie detector. Even if it was, the alternative (saying I'm a civilian) also would avoid the lie detector. So I had difficulty really understanding what LoRab was getting at there (bass I felt less suspicious of).

[Golden]

Good morning. Sorry for missing the vote. Work was a nightmare yesterday. (For the record, I worked up to 7:00 last night, came home to mow the lawn while I still had light, ate a quick dinner, and went back to the office until 11:00.)

That's even shitter than me. I only worked until 10. Although admittedly I didn't mow the lawn.

[LoRab]

I think Bass and Lorab (opinion stands as I read, maybe more will step up) are a bit suspicious for saying they think G-Man was trying to dance around the Lie Detector. His statement, in my opinion, is totally kosher as an easy Lie Detect option. If he's a baddie, then a Lie Detect will catch him for that statement, plain and simple.

That's exactly what I think, LC. The wording G-Man used could hardly be considered to be an attempt to avoid the lie detector. Even if it was, the alternative (saying I'm a civilian) also would avoid the lie detector. So I had difficulty really understanding what LoRab was getting at there (bass I felt less suspicious of).

I've come to embrace the fact that my brain is just weird. And that sometimes things that make complete sense to me (like why his post seemed suspish to me) just don't make sense to anyone else. I stand on my suspicion, though.

[Golden]

Well, I read Sloonei's responses to you differently than you did. I'm not sure which of us is wrong. I thought he was saying it was you he found suspicious in BoB, but he hasn't been able to determine whether or not it is relevant because Epi 2.0 is still alive and we don't know his role.

At this point, I'd say I'm highly likely to vote for Ninja today. The only other real issue I have is with G-Man, and I think I've talked myself out of that. I need to revisit the LoRab stuff about lie detectors more closely before I pursue that.

Golden pings me here, equivocating on Sloonei, and then pushing three other suspects. G-Man could be a Sloonei teammate based on this post.

That bit wasn't even about whether or not sloonei was suspicious. It was just MP saying 'we agree on everything' and me pointing out one thing we didn't agere on.

Later on, I was very clear that I didn't find sloonei suspicious, so my vote also looks bad. But I just didn't find him bad. It's pretty much the same kind of badness that I would have looked in Bullets over Broadway had you ended up getting lynched on day one. I'd spent that whole first day saying how I didn't find the case on you persuasive as well. I'm just not very persuaded by cases about adverbs, the word 'interesting', smilies etc. Maybe if I'd had an extra day I might have come around on sloonei. I just don't know, it's impossible to say these things in hindsight when you already know he is bad and it would be wifom anyway.

(However - it is abundantly clear, in case anyone didn't realise it, that this is not actually why llama voted sloonei or why sloonei got caught. It was his reaction to it that nabbed him.)

[Golden]

Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I agree with DDL's view here. I think espers perspective may be culture shock - he is used to closed setup. In an open setup, people aren't going to be claiming roles, and it is often useful to the civilians to discuss and analyse roles and how they might be used - it can help make sense of what is happening in the game.

[Golden]

I said before I thought the ninja bandwagon was forced, and I still do.

What bandwagon?

There were literally three people who voted that way - one was our known baddie.

One of the biggest pings I had yesterday was when MP called ninja the easy vote. What????? People like Ninja are NEVER the easy vote. People like me are the easy vote. People like sloonei, like llama, like epi... people like ninja do not get lynched on day one very often at all, and its certainly not an easy vote.

[Golden]

Even if he was indeed busy, it's weird that was still really active 90 minutes before the end of the phase, had not voted ninja at that point despite having suspected her for the whole day, and then only voted at a crucial moment of the poll. If he knew he would be busy irl, he could have voted ninja early.

I don't like to vote early when I'm not 100% sure, especially in early days like day 1. I knew I had a meeting, and I knew that meeting went for around an hour, and that I would be back in time to vote.

What I did not expect was the implication that meeting would have on what I had to achieve immediately after it, and it became immediately apparent all I could do was jump on, vote, and get off until later.

Simple reality - what I'm working on at the moment is a very important, politically critical matter that has very short statutory timeframes associated with it, and for at least the next two weeks I can't move my calendar around to suit mafia deadlines as much as I usually manage to do. I don't use RL to hide behind. Ever.

[Golden]

Otherwise, he might have waited till day 2 so ninja could post more and he could try to develop his case on her.

I answered that when MP suggested it the first time - leaving people till the next day so they can 'post more' just encourages baddies not to post. I absolutely do not subscribe to this as a good civilian mindset.

[Golden]

She broke the tie off ninja. THAT is not something I would see mafia doing.

I don't see eloh as bad, and I don't think she would do this.

BUT

Bass did exactly this in economics, so it can't be ruled out.

I still tend to think vote analysis is fairly reliable and this lynch gives us a very good vote to analyse.

[Marmot]

That's like soliciting prostitution, and her telling you it's free of charge, plus she has other gifts to offer. And you're thinking 'Jackpot!' But the gift turns out to be crabs

Is this the best description of MM's play style ever?

The red light's burning bright tonight.

[Golden]

I want to hear from:
Golden on his name being brought up by GMan and others.

It is inevitable that I take suspicion today. If I was anyone else, I would be grilling me too. I defended sloonei, and voted ninja at a time that tied up the vote. So I don't blame anyone for it.

I am, however, not bad. And I'm also not 'mixing up my baddie game' by obviously defending my baddie teammates instead of throwing them under the bus.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I said before I thought the ninja bandwagon was forced, and I still do.

What bandwagon?

There were literally three people who voted that way - one was our known baddie.

One of the biggest pings I had yesterday was when MP called ninja the easy vote. What????? People like Ninja are NEVER the easy vote. People like me are the easy vote. People like sloonei, like llama, like epi... people like ninja do not get lynched on day one very often at all, and its certainly not an easy vote.

Imo 3 people voting on ninja is a bandwagon. If you don't think so, then your definition the word is different than mine, and I don't intend to argue that. But what matters is that she almost got lynched yesterday, and there was a visible momentum for getting her lynched. Other than the 3 who voted her, I remember people speculating on her lynching, like MP. The lynched could have easily swinged on ninja.

And I disagree that it's not an easy vote. There were a lot of people, including me, openly talking about taking down low posters. A lynch based on a post a lost of people perceived as fishy, from someone who was not posting much, on day 1, could as well be easy. Remember nobody has good reasons to vote at this point of the game, so a small case like that can be attractive. Even I considered voting ninja at some point, before I started thinking the lynch as suspicious.

Even if he was indeed busy, it's weird that was still really active 90 minutes before the end of the phase, had not voted ninja at that point despite having suspected her for the whole day, and then only voted at a crucial moment of the poll. If he knew he would be busy irl, he could have voted ninja early.

I don't like to vote early when I'm not 100% sure, especially in early days like day 1. I knew I had a meeting, and I knew that meeting went for around an hour, and that I would be back in time to vote.

What I did not expect was the implication that meeting would have on what I had to achieve immediately after it, and it became immediately apparent all I could do was jump on, vote, and get off until later.

Simple reality - what I'm working on at the moment is a very important, politically critical matter that has very short statutory timeframes associated with it, and for at least the next two weeks I can't move my calendar around to suit mafia deadlines as much as I usually manage to do. I don't use RL to hide behind. Ever.

Alright, I'm really trying to avoid questioning your real life, at the risk of insulting you or making assumptions about things I don't know. So sorry in advance.

But I gotta work with what I have. It is possible that you are a baddie who is also having trouble being online all the time. If that's the case, and regardless of your real life, it will still be interesting for you to wait till the last moment to vote in order to save your teammate. You wouldn't let Sloonei die just to avoid "hiding behind RL", you'd just take the easy route and save your teammate. It's not that you are intentionally using your RL as a weapon, you are just abstaining from being active in the last hour because that benefits your game. If you were a civ, maybe you would have worked to make a better vote with the little time you had? I'm not sure.

Anyway, I'm can't really argue against your point that you don't like to vote early, except that the vote still make you look terrible, but you have already acknowledged that too. I'm going to wait and see how your game develops.

Otherwise, he might have waited till day 2 so ninja could post more and he could try to develop his case on her.

I answered that when MP suggested it the first time - leaving people till the next day so they can 'post more' just encourages baddies not to post. I absolutely do not subscribe to this as a good civilian mindset.

Sorry this wasn't really clear. I was talking about what baddie Golden would do. A baddie might want to get a harder lynch early, and then save someone like ninja to a following day. Or make a safer vote and avoid jumping on the ninja wagon.

Of course, if you are a civ, then your reasoning makes sense. I actually agree with it, I don't like giving people multiple days to defend themselves either.

[Marmot]

Your involvement (or non-involvement in this case) is purely another facet of a case that you could be bad. You weren't the only person to not mention or interact with Sloonei, so that is a very minor point I was making.
I don't understand how ninja can be one of your top suspects because she "apologized for her long post".
I get it, it's Day 1, we're all grasping at straws and may not have any strong reads, but that's the weakest reasoning I've heard for a top suspect. Your answer to my question of "do you think she is mafia" is very similar to how I answered when both MP and you asked me if I thought you were mafia. And if y'all have a problem with that, it's called double standards.
Your Day 1 was sitting on a fence and watching the mice scurry around below. I wish I knew what alignment you were in BoB, because your vague gameplay is very similar and I went through this same "Which Wine Do I Drink (or however that phrase goes)" in that game around this time too.

I think I can safely say I read you as moderate candidate for mafia as of now. Otherwise I'm going to keep double guessing you and commenting how I often don't receive direct answers from you. Is it your early game play style? Maybe. And some people may let that slide, but that comes off (to me) rather fishy.

That was not the only reason. I agreed with a post from Golden, and indicated something I felt more suspicious about. I did not vote nijuu for just apologizing.

I like WIFOM. This isn't the first time I've used it, nor will it be the last.

You read me as mafia? Cool beans. There are some circumstances that I cannot defend against. The fact that I happened to follow Sloonei's vote and didn't interact with him much seems to be the big one. Enjoy your read.

[Scotty]

Your involvement (or non-involvement in this case) is purely another facet of a case that you could be bad. You weren't the only person to not mention or interact with Sloonei, so that is a very minor point I was making.
I don't understand how ninja can be one of your top suspects because she "apologized for her long post".
I get it, it's Day 1, we're all grasping at straws and may not have any strong reads, but that's the weakest reasoning I've heard for a top suspect. Your answer to my question of "do you think she is mafia" is very similar to how I answered when both MP and you asked me if I thought you were mafia. And if y'all have a problem with that, it's called double standards.
Your Day 1 was sitting on a fence and watching the mice scurry around below. I wish I knew what alignment you were in BoB, because your vague gameplay is very similar and I went through this same "Which Wine Do I Drink (or however that phrase goes)" in that game around this time too.

I think I can safely say I read you as moderate candidate for mafia as of now. Otherwise I'm going to keep double guessing you and commenting how I often don't receive direct answers from you. Is it your early game play style? Maybe. And some people may let that slide, but that comes off (to me) rather fishy.

That was not the only reason. I agreed with a post from Golden, and indicated something I felt more suspicious about. I did not vote nijuu for just apologizing.

I like WIFOM. This isn't the first time I've used it, nor will it be the last.

You read me as mafia? Cool beans. There are some circumstances that I cannot defend against. The fact that I happened to follow Sloonei's vote and didn't interact with him much seems to be the big one. Enjoy your read.

Lol wait did you just use the WIFOM as a function of what we're doing right now, and then agree with me about your potential faults and leave it at that? That's not WIFOM as I know it, my friend. I like how you didn't confirm or deny that you are civ just now either.
In true MM fashion

While I simultaneously respect that you give me credit in pointing out things you can't explain away and pussyfooting around, I can't help but remain frustrated at your grey slate of a canvas.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Now you know why I always think MM is bad.

[Marmot]

Your involvement (or non-involvement in this case) is purely another facet of a case that you could be bad. You weren't the only person to not mention or interact with Sloonei, so that is a very minor point I was making.
I don't understand how ninja can be one of your top suspects because she "apologized for her long post".
I get it, it's Day 1, we're all grasping at straws and may not have any strong reads, but that's the weakest reasoning I've heard for a top suspect. Your answer to my question of "do you think she is mafia" is very similar to how I answered when both MP and you asked me if I thought you were mafia. And if y'all have a problem with that, it's called double standards.
Your Day 1 was sitting on a fence and watching the mice scurry around below. I wish I knew what alignment you were in BoB, because your vague gameplay is very similar and I went through this same "Which Wine Do I Drink (or however that phrase goes)" in that game around this time too.

I think I can safely say I read you as moderate candidate for mafia as of now. Otherwise I'm going to keep double guessing you and commenting how I often don't receive direct answers from you. Is it your early game play style? Maybe. And some people may let that slide, but that comes off (to me) rather fishy.

That was not the only reason. I agreed with a post from Golden, and indicated something I felt more suspicious about. I did not vote nijuu for just apologizing.

I like WIFOM. This isn't the first time I've used it, nor will it be the last.

You read me as mafia? Cool beans. There are some circumstances that I cannot defend against. The fact that I happened to follow Sloonei's vote and didn't interact with him much seems to be the big one. Enjoy your read.

Lol wait did you just use the WIFOM as a function of what we're doing right now, and then agree with me about your potential faults and leave it at that? That's not WIFOM as I know it, my friend. I like how you didn't confirm or deny that you are civ just now either.
In true MM fashion

While I simultaneously respect that you give me credit in pointing out things you can't explain away and pussyfooting around, I can't help but remain frustrated at your grey slate of a canvas.

They are faults of mine, they are circumstances that I cannot control, certainly not at this juncture.

Why should I confirm or deny that I am a civilian? What alignment would you expect me to strive to exemplify other than that of a civilian? How is that related to our current discussion?

[Marmot]

EBWOP: They are *not* faults of mine.

[Marmot]

Now you know why I always think MM is bad.

Is this a joke?

[Scotty]

Well MM, are you mafia? Just an honest question looking for an honest answer.

[espers]

Catching up. Gonna reply to this along the way:

Silk Spectre wants to stay alive long enough to find the roles she is looking for. If I were her, I'd help whatever faction seemed to be losing at the moment. If town starts winning too hard, I could see her helping mafia.

The Comedian would benefit from looking very civ, since he has to be night killed. So he is likely the most pro-civ one. But he still has a separate wincon, and might change sides if town starts winning too hard.

Nite Owl has a wincon that looks very pro-civ. He will be helping us at start. But if his dad is still alive and he has a chance to help hammer a civ lynch to end the game, he will. Likewise, if he kills the guy he has to kill, but his wincon means he has to survive till the end of the game, he will want the game to end faster.

Rorschach is a serial killer. He will kill anyone in his list, regardless of the alignment. Whether that helps town or not will depend on our luck.

The others are a mystery.

not a fan of this exchange, particularly the last post. it feels like ddl is fluffing here; we don't have any info on the watchmen roles besides what's in the op and speculating on them isn't useful right now, imo.

espers's take on DDL reminds me that he wasn't appreciated for doing extensive player reads in Guess Who (but back then I think it was already Day 2 and Roxy, one of his critics, had already read him as scum during the previous night, so not a perfect analogy). Although he addressed only the four Watchmen that don't have secrets in their description, so I'm not sure what she found wrong in DDL speculating, either.

dedicating posts to talking about the setup without actually connecting anything to specific players' content is often just a way to blend in and look involved without stepping on any toes, ime. also has potential to distract others from looking for sus behaviour.

Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I guess it's understandable that you'd want to take that approach in a setup like this. I still think there's a time and a place for that kind of speculation though, and day 1 when almost nothing has happened is not it.

what do you make of Golden's response to this?

Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I agree with DDL's view here. I think espers perspective may be culture shock - he is used to closed setup. In an open setup, people aren't going to be claiming roles, and it is often useful to the civilians to discuss and analyse roles and how they might be used - it can help make sense of what is happening in the game.

As for espers, he spent most of the phase suspecting me, as shown in the two posts from him I quoted above.

sorry if this is weird and out-of-game, but I've noticed Elohcin viewing the thread a few times, but she's keeping quiet. anything you'd like to say? who's your preferred lynch candidate right now?

actually, that can go for everyone. pretend the day ends at xx:40 instead of xx:00. who would you vote for?

i'd go for DDL.

linki: that's fair, it's not exactly a tight case. I still feel he's the most suspicious player so far, though.

Later, he even says he is probably going to vote me, and that I'm his most suspicious player.

voted sloonei

In response to MP's points toward me (my laptop is old and terrible and doing this thing where it takes a half hour just to start up, and I don't feel like waiting for that just so I can format a post more easily, so this is a messy phoned-in attempt at a post), I have so far only played with a G-man that is completely light and playful in all his posts (due to those reasons I mentioned earlier), so when I came in to the thread on Day 0 and saw him being perhaps the most active person in leading the discussion, regardless of how serious he says it was at the time, it was a very noticeable change in style for him. It is too minor a point to earn him a townie label just yet, but it was the strongest read I got in any direction after 3 pages of activity. "Sincere" was probably not the right word. "Active" or "aggressive"' would have been more accurate. I will hold off on commenting on the actual content of his posts until there's more of it.

Also I never expressed my suspicion of you while you were in BoB, I only mentioned it after Epi had subbed in for you. I can't find any of the posts (i made a lot of them in that game), but my point was essentially that I felt like your response to the fake truce banter on Day 0 felt a bit too preemptively defensive. Your behavior here reminded me vaguely of that.

didn't buy mp's original suspicion but this defence feels overwrought. not a strong case but I've gotta be decisive. i'm not feeling good about nijuu as I said before.

Then suddenly, with one minute left in the phase, he votes Sloonei. He quotes a post from Sloonei, parrots what other people said about Sloonei's defense being overthought, and casts a vote that did not actually change anything in the lynch, since Sloonei was already in the lead.

What is worse, is that he had never said anything about suspecting Sloonei before that. In fact, he had defended him:

that said I don't agree with the adverb/smiley arguments against sloonei, seems like a style thing more than anything.

So what's up with the change of heart? If you had voted based on what you were saying, you should have voted for me, not Sloonei. I wasn't active at all on day 1 (due to my own RL issues), and I didn't even reply your accusations against me, so what made you stop wanting to vote me?

you're missing the context here; it was almost the end of the day and a close tally, between nijuu and Sloonei. voting you at that point would be pointless, I thought it'd be better to go for one of those. i'd said before that I didn't see the case on nijuu at all, so that left Sloonei. what's more, I had suspected sloonei earlier, though I didn't say it.

I didn't say anything earlier because the source of my suspicion was slight, based entirely on tone, and I didn't think it would bring anything new to the table.

also, I wasn't defending Sloonei, I said I disagreed with casing based on adverb and smiley usage, which in themselves I consider to be null tells.

Also, espers, what say you about the discrepancy between you and MM about getting something/nothing after the Day 0 vote?

not sure exactly where the line is regarding infodumping, someone let me know if I overstep it here. I was under the impression that MM getting information (assuming it's true) came about because of the option that led the tally in that vote rather than where he voted. in that regard I don't think he's an explicitly antitown role, but i'm not sure he's pro-civ.

[Marmot]

Well MM, are you mafia? Just an honest question looking for an honest answer.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Now you know why I always think MM is bad.

Is this a joke?

Yeah.

[espers]

unfortunately i'll be busy irl for most of this next day phase, but i'll try to come in for at least an hour or two to answer any questions directed at me and get a vote down.

I think the interactive tells with sloonei will be the most revealing when it comes to finding the other mafia, so that's what i'll focus on when I get the chance.

[tessepia]

THIS HAS BEEN A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT FROM YOUR FRIENDLY GAME MODERATOR. IF YOU FEEL PEOPLE ARE HURTING YOU, DESERTING YOU, OR TAKING YOUR SOUL, WHETHER OR NOT YOU LET THEM, JUST CALL OUT MY NAME. YOU KNOW I'LL COME RUNNING

[Tangrowth]

Hey all! This will be a super busy weekend for me as I try to scramble to meet a SAS/replication deadline by Monday night. So my activity may temporarily drop off, assuming the mafia don't NK me tonight anyway. Nonetheless, I'm still going to try my best to continue discussion.

I've caught up, but only by skimming quickly, so I might have missed some stuff. I'll re-read from my post before this when I have more time. Nonetheless, I at least wanted to post during Night 1 was over, especially in case the mafia feel inclined to NK (somewhat likely, I think) or silence (very likely) me.

I at least wanted to make the following points:

1) Scotty, I appreciate your response. I'll give you a more proper response when I have some time. I have a problem with tunneling players in the past, so I'm going to let my thoughts on you simmer for now, and revisit you with a fresh mind, when I attempt to make connections with Sloonei's behavior during Day 2. As you noted with me, I have no intention to tunnel you either. I think it is best for civilians to speak with conviction and not get paralyzed by analysis, but at the same time, it's all about maintaining a healthy skeptical balance, and realizing that almost nothing is for certain in a game of mafia. And I've been wrong many, many times before, so I approach my thoughts on you with the hesitation that I realize I don't know you're mafia. I think the key to our interactions going forward will be trying to understand each other as much as possible, to avoid a back and forth defined by tunnel vision on both sides. Nonetheless, it is clear that you did have a program for Day 1, mostly avoiding the thick of the discussion, instead choosing to focus on lower contributors. I can respect your decision. But it is a decision that inevitably made me suspicious of you, since I was waiting for you to engage all Day, and then your vote for Elo left much to be desired. I hope you can see why I found it suspicious. If not, feel free to ask me to elaborate.

2) Golden, I'm afraid I don't fully understand why my declaration of the Ninja vote being "easy" pings you so greatly. First of all, I won't argue with you that high posters inevitably attract attention to themselves. I know that very well, as you do. But Ninja had a ton of suspicion around her, she hadn't really properly gotten into the game, she was an "easy" target for people to bandwagon onto if they really wanted to, especially since the suspicion surrounding G-Man and Sloonei seemingly were drying up (though Sloonei received more heat as the vote got down to the wire, as we know). So that's what I meant. Hope that makes sense. Regardless, even if it doesn't, I'm not sure why you had one of your "biggest pings" with my statement. Can you explain that?

I'm sure there's more, but I'm running out of time, and want to post an updated Rainbow List before the Night is over.

[Golden]

Because of all people I think you know that the day one easy targets for people to bandwagon on to are the vocal ones, not the ones who haven't said much. You've experienced it yourself many times, as I have. It's much harder to justify a vote for a low poster, especially if you are mafia wanting to avoid suspicion and want your justification to be as reasonable as possible.

G-Man and sloonei were definitely the two people I would have described as the easy votes. Not ninja.

[Tangrowth]

MP's Rainbow List - Night 1 (~0 Hours Remaining)

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

TASTE THE RAINBOW

thellama73

Bass_the_Clever
Dragon D. Luffy
nijuukyugou

DharmaHelper
Elohcin
Metalmarsh89
Ricochet
Russtifinko

Cookie
LoRab
timmer

Golden
Long Con

espers
G-Man

Scotty

For reference:
Very strong civilian read
Strong civilian read
Moderate civilian read
Slight civilian read
Very slight civilian read
No read or unsure
Very slight mafia read
Slight mafia read
Moderate mafia read
Strong mafia read
Very strong mafia read

Random comments:

- thellama73 is my top civilian read, at "moderate", but I want to note that it wouldn't surprise me if Llama was indeed Sloonei's teammate and aggressively bussed him, since: (1) Llama has done this often as a baddie, (2) in a one mafia game, it makes strategic sense to do so, and (3) Llama was 50-50 between G-Man and Sloonei, so he did have an out, and could later decide whether to bus his teammate or not depending on how he thought the thread would go, and by the time he voted, suspicion of G-Man had lessened considerably.

- nijuukyugou, thellama73, and Dragon D. Luffy's votes look best, since they were the first three for Sloonei, hence they are three of my four highest reads

- I have consistently been reading Bass as genuine and he is my strongest "gut" feel candidate

- I know some folks are seeing Golden as bad, and he certainly looks objectively very suspect, but I really am having a difficult time seeing a mafia Golden conduct D1 so carelessly -- and I think Golden genuinely didn't see anything different about Sloonei, and perhaps was blinded to him because of Golden's post here -- nonetheless I have to keep him at a very slight mafia read, since there's no denying he looks bad after the Sloonei flip

- espers's flip to Sloonei in the last minute definitely doesn't look great, coupled with his general lack of really contributing much during D1 until the period was almost over

- G-Man definitely looks bad with the Sloonei flip, although he could have also been a distraction initially hoped to be used by Sloonei's teammates, so it could go either way, with the former seeming more likely, especially with Sloonei's sloppy distancing -- but it's hard to believe a player as good as Sloonei would distance as sloppily, so this is very WIFOM-tinged. Notably, G-Man has posted a lot today but hasn't analyzed votes or really contributed any suspects, which doesn't bode well for him, but perhaps he hadn't gotten to it... nonetheless, I think his contributions are mostly just hindsight and I hope he would start baddie hunting

- Scotty is my top mafia read, but he is still only "moderate", since I am far from absolutely convinced -- going to revisit him

I will revise reads possibly after properly catching up and doing some research after knowing Sloonei is mafia.

[Tangrowth]

Because of all people I think you know that the day one easy targets for people to bandwagon on to are the vocal ones, not the ones who haven't said much. You've experienced it yourself many times, as I have. It's much harder to justify a vote for a low poster, especially if you are mafia wanting to avoid suspicion and want your justification to be as reasonable as possible.

G-Man and sloonei were definitely the two people I would have described as the easy votes. Not ninja.

While it is true that more often than not, people tend to more heavily scrutinize high posters on D1 versus the lower ones, I think it inevitably depends on the sentiment in the thread, and there was significant activity on D1 and a high propensity for players to heavily examine low posters, so I respectfully disagree.

You didn't even say how my viewpoint makes me mafia, or why it heavily pinged you, you just are explaining that you disagree. Civilians disagree with each other all the time. What possible mafia agenda would I have in saying such a statement, knowing Sloonei was mafia? That's what I don't get.

[Tangrowth]

Also, as always, if anyone wants me to elaborate on my reads, let me know. They are subject to change after D2 analysis. But I will be busy this weekend, so I won't probably be able to analyze as much as I want.

[Golden]

You didn't even say how my viewpoint makes me mafia, or why it heavily pinged you, you just are explaining that you disagree. Civilians disagree with each other all the time. What possible mafia agenda would I have in saying such a statement, knowing Sloonei was mafia? That's what I don't get.

It pinged me at the time you said it. I didn't know sloonei was bad then, I thought ninja was.

[Golden]

One of the biggest pings I had yesterday was when MP called ninja the easy vote.

Perhaps I didn't phrase this clearly enough - I said one of the biggest pings I had YESTERDAY. I didn't just mean temporally. I meant that it was no longer relevant. But - I don't like that DDL took the words you said and turned them into a gospel truth for explaining my motives, which were also essentially a theory about how my brain might have been working yesterday.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, okay, my bad. I understand now. Thanks!

Scotty, I'm going to hold off on reopening our conversation until I've had a chance to look back at your posts in isolation, if that's okay with you. I feel like I need to do that to avoid tunneling.

[Epignosis]

July 17, 1985
Veidt Security Footage Leaks, cont.

You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[Golden]

I think the Comedian should have bided his time a little. I don't really think Scotty was bad.

Unless he is llama, in which case I understand.

I hope llama was Moloch

[thellama73]

Supatown.

[LoRab]

RIPIYWG Scotty and Llama.

I think the Comedian should have bided his time a little. I don't really think Scotty was bad.

Unless he is llama, in which case I understand.

I hope llama was Moloch

Although why would the Comedian care? The Watchmen seem, to me, to be more indy than civie. But that's just my read.

Would anyone want to revenge kill Scotty from another game? Or set someone up to seem like a revenge kill? My initial thought on the kill choice.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I see the ability spam is real on N1.

Bernard gives us a freaking news video. Is that Epi talking lol

The Comedian uses his one-shot on N1. I hope he had good accuracy.

Nite Owl uses one of his one-shots too and reduces the poll size.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Seriously tho, this is amazing.

Are we gonna have one of those every day?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Would anyone want to revenge kill Scotty from another game? Or set someone up to seem like a revenge kill? My initial thought on the kill choice.

Pretty sure the Watchmen also have to eliminate Inmates/Moloch to win...

[Scotty]

Sigh. NK'd on night 1 again. Good luck all...

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I guess it's understandable that you'd want to take that approach in a setup like this. I still think there's a time and a place for that kind of speculation though, and day 1 when almost nothing has happened is not it.

what do you make of Golden's response to this?

Spoiler: show

Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I agree with DDL's view here. I think espers perspective may be culture shock - he is used to closed setup. In an open setup, people aren't going to be claiming roles, and it is often useful to the civilians to discuss and analyse roles and how they might be used - it can help make sense of what is happening in the game.

I think the whole think boils down to personal player style. I'm actually used to Closed Setup games, not Open, but where I come from info dumping is allowed as long as you don't directly reveal roles, so there's a lot more room to strategy talking. I'm just more used to it. Though someone used to Open Setup would also think it's normal to talk about that. Either way, I don't think there is anything irresponsible about it: the abilities are here, happening, we don't lose anything from talking about them.

you're missing the context here; it was almost the end of the day and a close tally, between nijuu and Sloonei. voting you at that point would be pointless, I thought it'd be better to go for one of those. i'd said before that I didn't see the case on nijuu at all, so that left Sloonei. what's more, I had suspected sloonei earlier, though I didn't say it.

I didn't say anything earlier because the source of my suspicion was slight, based entirely on tone, and I didn't think it would bring anything new to the table.

also, I wasn't defending Sloonei, I said I disagreed with casing based on adverb and smiley usage, which in themselves I consider to be null tells

Fine. But your vote still did not mean anything gameplay wise, because it wasd the last vote in the phase and Sloonei was already winning by that point. So it would be safe vote for a mafioso. That said, you could have unsure about the poll times since you're new here, or maybe you just wanted to secure the lynch, but personally I'd rather speak with my vote and vote for someone I actually suspected before, not someone I "didn't say anything about earlier".

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Because of all people I think you know that the day one easy targets for people to bandwagon on to are the vocal ones, not the ones who haven't said much. You've experienced it yourself many times, as I have. It's much harder to justify a vote for a low poster, especially if you are mafia wanting to avoid suspicion and want your justification to be as reasonable as possible.

G-Man and sloonei were definitely the two people I would have described as the easy votes. Not ninja.

I don't know about your experiences, but mine includes plenty of one-shot posters getting hanged on d1 because of one little fishy thing they said. This is d1, there isn't a set pattern for lynches, everybody is looking for a quick reason to vote before the time is up. It's no wonder almost every d1 ends up with a civilian killed.

The way I saw, with many people talking about ninja, her lynch was pretty easy in my view.

One of the biggest pings I had yesterday was when MP called ninja the easy vote.

Perhaps I didn't phrase this clearly enough - I said one of the biggest pings I had YESTERDAY. I didn't just mean temporally. I meant that it was no longer relevant. But - I don't like that DDL took the words you said and turned them into a gospel truth for explaining my motives, which were also essentially a theory about how my brain might have been working yesterday.

I'm not making a gospel truth, I'm speculating on how a baddie Golden would act to see if it's consistent. I can't argue you are a mafioso unless I can point something out in your behavior that would clearly fit a mafia play.

Sorry if you don't like it dude, but it's not supposed to be pleasant.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Anyway, this 4-man lynch poll is almost an invitation to make ISOs. I think I'm gonna look at all four tomorrow to see if I can find anything.

[Cookie]

I'm here. I need to catch up with the thread. I was just reading through the roles because I couldn't remember what the Comedian did, as someone mentioned it and I have one question: Are the Watchmen working with or against civilians?

[nijuukyugou]

Yikes! Two kills Hope the ninja knew what (s)he was doing! And four lynch candidates. Well, I guess that makes looking back at only four people easier?

As it seems like much of the conversation since I last posted was on Golden, here goes:

Golden's vote looks bad because he voted to tie Ninja Blooper with Sloonei. Could have been a baddie save attempt, but it would be a really transparent one, and I would expect better of Golden. Espers looks bad because the last minute final vote on Sloonei could have been a baddie underbussing a teammate.

- I know some folks are seeing Golden as bad, and he certainly looks objectively very suspect, but I really am having a difficult time seeing a mafia Golden conduct D1 so carelessly -- and I think Golden genuinely didn't see anything different about Sloonei, and perhaps was blinded to him because of Golden's post here -- nonetheless I have to keep him at a very slight mafia read, since there's no denying he looks bad after the Sloonei flip

I had the same thought - the Golden I (think) I know wouldn't be this clumsy. I'll look back at him, but I wasn't getting the baddie vibes yesterday, and his suspicion of me, though wrong, didn't seem as forced as what I perceived Sloonei's (I'll admit, this is likely in hindsight knowing his alignment) and MM's weird reasoning.

Other people I wanted to comment on in my read-through are not currently in the poll, so I guess I'll save those for the next phase and spend time looking back at the others actually on the poll. My laptop's about to die, so I'll be back either later tonight or tomorrow late afternoon I'll be driving about 4-5 hours back to my lovely home to hopefully make more observations.

[timmer]

Four lynch candidates will make this much easier. I will wake up before my guests in the morning and read through all four. Peace!

[Long Con]

Win Con: Rorschach does not compromise with evil. Anyone who participates in a civilian or Watchman lynch must be dead for Rorschach to win.

Does that include Rorschach?

[Long Con]

Whoops, didn't mean to Submit that yet, just Preview. I'm caught up to the Lynch Post now, and watched the two shorter videos, and I was starting to put together a post that would grow as I caught up, but I guess you got a preview of the first part in advance.

I see I'm one of four on the poll now. That's lame. You can look forward to me being caught up and in discussions and answering questions for Day Two, and I hope you do not choose me as your lynch nominee.

[Ricochet]

RIP Llama and Scotty (if you were good and not a ninja'd baddie)

Sorry everyone, I'll be your Timmer for Day 2. Hiking awaits, leaving in one hour in fact, my playing is compromised until Sunday night. I skimmed the thread a few times, but I'm not caught up - had to prepare, shop, pack, etc. Even if I will get Internet occasionally, burning the phone battery by playing Mafia might still be unwise. Anyway, I've asked the host for clemency, so I'm asking you as well. I'll definitely be back full time after this weekend.