Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Game Over

[S~V~S]

Personally, I think he has been playing a fairly neutral game. He seems to be looking at both sides of a story equally. HE disagrees with you quite a bit, yes.

So you think HB is town? What about Golden?

I did not say that; I said he is playing a neutral game. This game has 7 or 8 indies/third parties. So a neutral read does not necessarily mean civ. Interesting extrapolation on your part, though.

In the last big game we played, Recruitment, I went after Golden hard. I was SURE he was bad. Since I was myself bad, that part has gotten lost. I think Golden & I are unable to even understand each other. I respect him I think it is mutual. But we never trust each other. I am not sure if this was the answer you were seeking, but it IS the answer you got

[Choutas]

Oops sorry I wanted to see the results and clicked the second option by mistake.

[MacDougall]

Personally, I think he has been playing a fairly neutral game. He seems to be looking at both sides of a story equally. HE disagrees with you quite a bit, yes.

So you think HB is town? What about Golden?

I did not say that; I said he is playing a neutral game. This game has 7 or 8 indies/third parties. So a neutral read does not necessarily mean civ. Interesting extrapolation on your part, though.

In the last big game we played, Recruitment, I went after Golden hard. I was SURE he was bad. Since I was myself bad, that part has gotten lost. I think Golden & I are unable to even understand each other. I respect him I think it is mutual. But we never trust each other. I am not sure if this was the answer you were seeking, but it IS the answer you got

What's interesting about it? Interesting is such a lame word. Say what you mean to say.

[S~V~S]

I mean interests me that you read it as you did. Sorry I have no better pseudonyms. I thought that was clear.

[S~V~S]

not pseudonym lol. But you know what I mean.

[Golden]

Very mutual.

[MacDougall]

I mean interests me that you read it as you did. Sorry I have no better pseudonyms. I thought that was clear.

S-V-S don't be coy. Having interest denotes that you have an opinion. Share it please. Or are you just throwing shade on me for the sake of it?

[Dom]

^no it's because you're bad and its' obvious

[S~V~S]

Actually, Mac, it pisses me off that I went to the effort to write that post, and give you my honest opinion, and all you took out of it was one word.

That was insulting.

That seems calculated to portray my post in a certain way.

[DFaraday]

No time to catch up, just voting Cats because I love kitty cats.

[MacDougall]

Actually, Mac, it pisses me off that I went to the effort to write that post, and give you my honest opinion, and all you took out of it was one word.

That was insulting.

That seems calculated to portray my post in a certain way.

I apologise if I offended you but people saying "oh that's interesting" and then not elaborating annoys me. Especially when it's actually spoken at me accusationally.

[MacDougall]

^no it's because you're bad and its' obvious

If it's so obvious put your case together and get the town to lynch me.

[Dom]

Actually, Mac, it pisses me off that I went to the effort to write that post, and give you my honest opinion, and all you took out of it was one word.

That was insulting.

That seems calculated to portray my post in a certain way.

I apologise if I offended you but people saying "oh that's interesting" and then not elaborating annoys me. Especially when it's actually spoken at me accusationally.

You know what annoys me?
People who ignore other people's suspicions because it's a "waste of their time" and think that making it personal is a valid way to get out of a suspicion.

Only makes me think you're bad.

[MacDougall]

I read the rest of your post S-V-S and I didn't have anything to say to it? What would you have me say. Would you prefer that I just say "interesting" and not elaborate?

linki: Dom, if Mafia was a game where everyone was totally obvious all the time you would be the champion I'm sure

[MacDougall]

You know what, fine, Dom please quote the posts you want me to respond to. I'm pretty sure you have made one point against me that I addressed and you are just tunneling me but I'll give you another shot. I'll respond this time since I'm now no longer on a family road trip and actually can attempt to make sense of whatever you are trying to accuse me of.

[HamburgerBoy]

Bubbles being a low poster is not suspicious on its own. She is always a low poster.

The game is economics. I deliberately made a post on her as the kill was incoming, then posted it right after she died, saying 'oops, I was writing this when the post came in, I guess I may as well post it anyway'. And yes, I know for a fact she remembers it well.

I know bubbles very well. I played in her first game. I've played in nearly all of her games. Her calling out timmer was odd in the extreme. Her not saying she was civ was odd in the extreme. It all makes sense in context.

I never said I don't want to touch the SVS, Dom, Epi thing. In fact, I've made it very clear that I think they are all town, and if I knew one was bad I would lean epi, but I think the entire thing is civ civ civ. I said I wouldn't put my VOTE anywhere in that triangle, which is a very different thing indeed.

Even then, she made her post on timmers several hours before BANANA's lynch, which means 30 hours before the night kill. Looking up Economics, in your case you made a long, multi-quote case against her, and acknowledged linki after the mod had already flipped her as the town victim of a nightkill. You're now assuming that timmers was dead-to-rights at least several hours prior to night 1. Not impossible, but based on my own scum experiences, scum usually doesn't plot nightkills that until after the lynch goes through, because there are always things that can change. I'm also looking back at Frisky Dingo (which you didn't play in fairness), where TinyBubbles (as a town member) made a post saying:

"also about voting low posters.. eh I have no such policy, not because i'm a low poster myself but because it's just not much of a strategy and some people do have geniune RL commitments that make them unable to post frequently, i'd rather give low posters the benefit of the doubt."

She then proceeded to voice suspicion for Cookie (not quite as lurky but still "fluffy" in her words), and while she didn't cast a vote, she said that she regretted not doing so, and her small post history would indicate she may have voted for Cookie regardless. Additionally, it doesn't look like she started that game saying "I am civvie" as you are apparently accustomed to.

[a2thezebra]

I would wage that 4 out of 5 conflicts going on at the moment are 100% pointless. I agree with Bullz that even though I am going to vote for sig tomorrow, there's nothing new to say, and it could distract from other content. Mac is just being Mac and people aren't really used to it. To those suspicious of Mac simply for his play style I ask you this: Where is the deceit? A baddie would not be so carefree with their suspicions, accusations, defenses, etc. I have a town read on Mac.

As for Bubbles, I'm going to get a little controversial here. The one major ping on Bubbles is speculative: the lie detector theory. I think it's reaching at best. Even on the off chance that Bubbles can't claim civ because of lie detector roles, (this is the controversial part) that doesn't automatically make her anti-civ. Remember, we're playing a game where HALF of the players technically are not civilian-aligned, at least from the start, but (and this is consistent with what I said in TH for anyone who thinks I'm up to something here) I honestly do not think that independent roles are anti-civ by default. I'm not saying she's a town read for me, I'm just saying that there isn't nearly enough to go on at this point to lynch her, when the only major ping isn't even indicative (to me) that she's against us.

[sig]

Sig is selling his vote for day 3! Whichever bandwagon is bigger then his will receive his vote start a bandwagon know and you can get Sig's vote!






paid for by the lets not lynch a civ and be mean to Sig foundation






This is alllll sarc of course.

[Dom]

#1) Your suspicion of me is based on a case Epi made on meta-analysis. Not only would I say his case is wrong, but you have zero bearing for my meta-game. Why would you follow that? How does that indicate I am bad? You say you don't want to follow people, but you do here. You have since evolved this into a standalone suspicion based on???? What? I don't even know what. If it's the meta-analysis you have no grounds for it, and that is suspect to me. In fact, you called Epig's case "the best case of the game" when you should have zero ability to judge that.

#2) You consistently condemn "silly" players, but when in need of a distraction, completely derail the thread and act just as silly-- or exceedingly silly--to dismiss allegations against you. You see, what you've been doing is attacking me personally to make people less likely to want to comment.

#3) You alleged that I was disinterested until I took votes. That is simply not true and a mischaracterization.

#4) You attempted to lure me into voting you over Banana Day 1. This, I believe, was an attempt to make sure I died that day.

#5) You have named 9+ people to be "scum" with a high degree of certainty, however, there is a maximum of 8 baddies in the game... who are your suspects? Why are you inconsistent?

#6) Starting in day two, you seemed to drop the talk of SVS and I. You pulled up several new suspicions out of nowhere. I believe this was an attempt to get me off your ass.

#7) You posted a list of people you suspect, one of which was me and one of which was Bea. You claim that this was confusing because you're playing two games, but I am not playing Dune and Bea is not playing here. Who are your real suspicions?

#8) You assume that the Banana lynch was a save on me rather than a save on Bug. You have refused to entertain the thought-- it's almost like you might know.

#9) You claimed my disinterest is a reason to suspect me because I only became interested when I took votes. To be honest, that's hypocrisy on a whole new level. You literally phoned in for a day only because "you didn't have the energy" and "were on a road trip". But I'm totally disinterested by a lower than above average post count on Day 1??????? OKKK!?!??!


In short, your behavior would have gotten you lynched if you were from this site.

[BUGLABUSH]

Luke is mafia

[Luke11646]

Luke is mafia

Yeah, I'm mafia and I have BTSC with you.

[BUGLABUSH]

Haha knew it

[a2thezebra]

Elaborate on your reads or die, BUGLA.

[MacDougall]

#1) Your suspicion of me is based on a case Epi made on meta-analysis. Not only would I say his case is wrong, but you have zero bearing for my meta-game. Why would you follow that? How does that indicate I am bad? You say you don't want to follow people, but you do here. You have since evolved this into a standalone suspicion based on???? What? I don't even know what. If it's the meta-analysis you have no grounds for it, and that is suspect to me. In fact, you called Epig's case "the best case of the game" when you should have zero ability to judge that.

#2) You consistently condemn "silly" players, but when in need of a distraction, completely derail the thread and act just as silly-- or exceedingly silly--to dismiss allegations against you. You see, what you've been doing is attacking me personally to make people less likely to want to comment.

#3) You alleged that I was disinterested until I took votes. That is simply not true and a mischaracterization.

#4) You attempted to lure me into voting you over Banana Day 1. This, I believe, was an attempt to make sure I died that day.

#5) You have named 9+ people to be "scum" with a high degree of certainty, however, there is a maximum of 8 baddies in the game... who are your suspects? Why are you inconsistent?

#6) Starting in day two, you seemed to drop the talk of SVS and I. You pulled up several new suspicions out of nowhere. I believe this was an attempt to get me off your ass.

#7) You posted a list of people you suspect, one of which was me and one of which was Bea. You claim that this was confusing because you're playing two games, but I am not playing Dune and Bea is not playing here. Who are your real suspicions?

#8) You assume that the Banana lynch was a save on me rather than a save on Bug. You have refused to entertain the thought-- it's almost like you might know.

#9) You claimed my disinterest is a reason to suspect me because I only became interested when I took votes. To be honest, that's hypocrisy on a whole new level. You literally phoned in for a day only because "you didn't have the energy" and "were on a road trip". But I'm totally disinterested by a lower than above average post count on Day 1??????? OKKK!?!??!


In short, your behavior would have gotten you lynched if you were from this site.

I asked you to quote your posts. Your argument has been about how I have ignored your posts. I didn't ask you to make another, I asked you to quote your posts.

1. I've already explained this. Ignoring my explanations and suggesting I have ignored you isn't a really good way to catch scum. Good way to get me mislynched though if that's your agenda. I never said I had a read on you independently of Epignosis's read before the other wagons started to feel wrong to me. I had a town read of Epignosis and I hated the other two lynch wagons enough to push you over them. Epi's case wasn't huge and elaborate at all, but it was assured and it was better than the cases I saw on Bug and Banana. Yes, I was entirely deferring to Epignosis. As the day progressed I became quite sure of there being a mislynch counterwagon being built. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not infallible. When did I say that I never follow people or don't want to follow people?

2. Do you really take personally the words of an anonymous internet forums poster who doesn't know you? If so, I apologise for offending you. My insults were out of line. No, my intention was not to make it too awkward for others to comment at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I would love nothing more than to see a million votes pile onto me.

I was genuinely annoyed at your tone. Your tone from the word go in reaction to me was rude, dismissive and belittling to me. I've already been asked to stop provoking you and I will and I apologise for any personal insult you feel, but you need to know that I was actually annoyed too. I don't take this stuff half as seriously as you and that's fine, but it doesn't make me scum.

3. I am not going to bother quoting the entirety of page 1 of your ISO but your posts before you started to gain lynch attention were low content, non provocative and came across like you weren't interested in the game to me. It's not intentional mischaracterisation (why do you guys use words like this?!), it's how I read your posts. You and anyone who is interested can look and see them and if you think that my post on the subject is non genuine then good for you. It wasn't.

4. It wasn't. It was an attempt to get you to vote for me because I was your scum read and I wanted to see how seriously you believed your scum read.

5. Really? Okay show me the high degree of certainty with which I have given reads on 9 players? I also already responded to this.

6. You believe wrong. I don't care that you are "on my ass". Our feelings about one another are well documented. I don't tunnel people. You do though. I don't need to continue harping on about it. Nobody was interested in a day 2 Dom lynch so why would I bother bashing on about it? I'm here trying to hunt other scum to build out my reads some more. You're putting all your eggs in one mislynch basket.

7. On the other game at the time I had a scum read on Bea and Floyd in a team. Here at the time I had a scum read on you, S-V-S and Floyd. And I had been following the game on my phone with one hand while driving down the highway. You can choose to see that as scummy, but why would I be that careless as scum? What would be the benefit of anything I have done as scum?

8. Did you just accuse me of knowing that you are scum? Like, really? How could I possibly know you are scum? I think in combination with the fact that I had taken up Dom wagon over Bug and Banana on day 1 and that there was a counterwagon in play on Banana that it's fair that I would assume that it was a counterwagon designed to spare you? That would just be me being consistent in my reads? So I am scummy for being consistent in my reads? It's not that I'm not entertaining the idea that it was to spare Bug, but with all respect to Bug if he was close to getting lynched on day 1 I would have bussed the fuck out of him if I were the scum team. If there was a counterwagon I believe it was to spare you. There may not have been a counterwagon anyway. Maybe you're all civilian and the scum didn't have to bother?

9. Read it again, I didn't say your disinterest was a scum tell. I was saying you were showing just as little disinterest as another player in a conversation you weren't even a part of.

So tl;dr

You are harping on about me ignoring you and dismissing your cases and what not but the fact is the only telling parts of your case are things that actually probably make me look more like disinterested town than scum and/or are things I have replied to.

You accuse me of dismissing your case. I have actively chosen to ignore you at times because when I explain you just tunnel harder and dismiss my responses. There's no point engaging discussion with you because it takes up too much thread space and content and is making it less pleasant for the rest of the players and harder to scum hunt.

I actually have changed my mind. I don't think you are scum. I think this is a case of civilian tunneling, and you're angry at me for being rude to you, so it's influencing it even more.

So what's the play now, are you going to continue to tunnel me or are you going to just vote for me when the day starts if we're both alive and then look at other players?

[LoRab]

Travelling all day and y'all post a lot so keep not having time to finish reading.

I think people can say things are interesting and that be a statement in and of itself. It is not lame. It is saying, huh--that is interesting.

I'm finding myself frustrated with the tone of several posts here and people insulting others in a way that doesn't seem either productive or fun.

I'm also finding myself frustrated with people saying someone is bad, just because they know it and they are sure and we should all just follow them. That is not helpful to me. Or particularly interesting to read.

I think I'm perhaps a little cranky, but there seems to be an ongoing tone amongst several posts that are crank inducing. But maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.

Also, I have cats, but I prefer dogs.

[LoRab]

And I meant to vote dogs but voted cats instead. Meh.

[MacDougall]

Travelling all day and y'all post a lot so keep not having time to finish reading.

I think people can say things are interesting and that be a statement in and of itself. It is not lame. It is saying, huh--that is interesting.

I'm finding myself frustrated with the tone of several posts here and people insulting others in a way that doesn't seem either productive or fun.

I'm also finding myself frustrated with people saying someone is bad, just because they know it and they are sure and we should all just follow them. That is not helpful to me. Or particularly interesting to read.

I think I'm perhaps a little cranky, but there seems to be an ongoing tone amongst several posts that are crank inducing. But maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.

Also, I have cats, but I prefer dogs.

Everything you just wrote is directed at me but you didn't refer to me by name. Am I that annoying?

[nutella]

So there have been lots of fluffy, boring exchanges, but finally this Dom/Mac exchange is, dare I say, interesting. (Like Lorab I am pro-"interesting." Epi crusaded against it a couple games ago and I feel slightly defiant every time I use it now. )

Dom's well-organized case on Mac has some compelling points but I also find Mac's responses reasonable, and I haven't played with him before so I think a lot of what has felt slightly off about him is just a style thing.
This post pinged me though:

^no it's because you're bad and its' obvious

If it's so obvious put your case together and get the town to lynch me.

The way he says "the town" sounds kinda slippy to me. Like he's not part of the town. Could also just be the way he uses the terminology, but the phrasing doesn't sit right with me.

Luke is mafia

Please elaborate.
I haven't gotten the best vibes from Luke either, but I would really like to hear actual thoughts from you as well.

[MacDougall]

So there have been lots of fluffy, boring exchanges, but finally this Dom/Mac exchange is, dare I say, interesting. (Like Lorab I am pro-"interesting." Epi crusaded against it a couple games ago and I feel slightly defiant every time I use it now. )

Dom's well-organized case on Mac has some compelling points but I also find Mac's responses reasonable, and I haven't played with him before so I think a lot of what has felt slightly off about him is just a style thing.
This post pinged me though:

^no it's because you're bad and its' obvious

If it's so obvious put your case together and get the town to lynch me.

The way he says "the town" sounds kinda slippy to me. Like he's not part of the town. Could also just be the way he uses the terminology, but the phrasing doesn't sit right with me.

Luke is mafia

Please elaborate.
I haven't gotten the best vibes from Luke either, but I would really like to hear actual thoughts from you as well.

The civs, the town. How else do I describe civs other than myself in a group?

[nutella]

Fair enough.

Btw, I just remembered that Reywas is playing (and apparently it's his birthday today, happy birthday rey!) but he has barely posted anything at all and absolutely nothing of substance, and not since Thursday. Seems like he hasn't been keeping up at all, perhaps he should be replaced? @hosts

[Epignosis]

So there have been lots of fluffy, boring exchanges, but finally this Dom/Mac exchange is, dare I say, interesting. (Like Lorab I am pro-"interesting." Epi crusaded against it a couple games ago and I feel slightly defiant every time I use it now. )

I'm behind, but I saw this. I did not crusade against the use of the word "interesting," just like I have never crusaded against the use of adverbs. The fact that anyone says this about me means they don't understand nuance.

[Long Con]

Fair enough.

Btw, I just remembered that Reywas is playing (and apparently it's his birthday today, happy birthday rey!) but he has barely posted anything at all and absolutely nothing of substance, and not since Thursday. Seems like he hasn't been keeping up at all, perhaps he should be replaced? @hosts

reywaS has asked to be replaced. As has Elohcin. And I want to replace BUGLABUSH. And I have no one to replace in. Suggestions would be helpful.

So there have been lots of fluffy, boring exchanges, but finally this Dom/Mac exchange is, dare I say, interesting. (Like Lorab I am pro-"interesting." Epi crusaded against it a couple games ago and I feel slightly defiant every time I use it now. )

I'm behind, but I saw this. I did not crusade against the use of the word "interesting," just like I have never crusaded against the use of adverbs. The fact that anyone says this about me means they don't understand nuance.

Stop posting in locked threads.

Sorry for the delay, I was getting no Internet, and I had to go into my router and kick off some devices that were not even in anyone's hands because they were eating up all my bandwidth. This is the shit I'm having to deal with instead of writing your night post and sending PMs.

[Long Con]

-= Hunted =-

a2thezebra was travelling to her new location, when she saw a deep, slow-flowing stream running through the forest. The days had been hot, and it looked like just the thing to refresh her skin and wash the stresses of the day away. She looked around carefully, and, seeing no one around, waded in and sank in the cool waters, smiling in the moonlight and closing her eyes. It was so peaceful, so relaxing...

When she reopened her eyes, the sky had changed. The moon had moved, and the stars were different - she had fallen asleep, how long had she been out? The once refreshing waters now chilled her to the bone - she had been in too long. As she moved for the shore, a rustling in the nearby shadows caught her attention.

"Is someone there?" she called out, hating how quiet and scared her voice sounded, but at the same time, too loud. The shadow moved again, and she thought she could hear sadistic chuckling - or was that just the water? She decided to make a run for her belongings, only a few metres away on the shore, but she had only taken a few steps when a dark bolt shot out from the shadows, striking her in the shoulder. She cried out in pain, and tried to turn back, to hide herself in the water that was turning much too red, much too quickly.

Another bolt shot out and into her back, and she fell forward. Her face was under the water, but she couldn't move to take another breath. She barely felt as a third bolt thudded into her ribs, but before she sunk into the stream forever, sadistic chuckling was the last sound her ears heard.

a2thezebra has been killed by the Witherdeath Cabal. It is now Day 3.

Today's poll will be divided into two groups... cats and dogs. Each player must cast two votes in this poll, one in each group.

PMs will go out now for your new locations and night results. Please do not return to your Phase 2 temp BTSC chats.

[Long Con]

Ok, post away. Anyone who didn't vote in the night poll has their name in both groups.

[Golden]

That epi, always a rebel.

RIP zebra, if you were town.

[sig]

Oh well glad I voted, does this mean we will have two lynches if so is this a game mechanic or an ability?

[Epignosis]

So there have been lots of fluffy, boring exchanges, but finally this Dom/Mac exchange is, dare I say, interesting. (Like Lorab I am pro-"interesting." Epi crusaded against it a couple games ago and I feel slightly defiant every time I use it now. )

I'm behind, but I saw this. I did not crusade against the use of the word "interesting," just like I have never crusaded against the use of adverbs. The fact that anyone says this about me means they don't understand nuance.

Stop posting in locked threads.

I don't mean to, host dude.

[a2thezebra]

Elaborate on your reads or die, BUGLA.

Or me, that works too. :P

[HamburgerBoy]

Just to make sure, is the permanent vote only for voting in the wrong area, or are all votes permanent today?

[nutella]

RIP Zebra.

Double poll, now that's... different.

[Golden]

It's quite neat, the double poll.

Zebra dies after insisting he will lynch sig again, but I feel like its a set up. I don't think sig is bad, and I don't think he was responsible for zebra's death.

[Epignosis]

My number #1 choice to lynch right now is Typhoony.

[Marmot]

Votes in this poll are changeable.

I've voted Turnip Head twice to check.

[Marmot]

More officially, Turnip Head, Turnip Head.

[HamburgerBoy]

Good to know. Going golden and fingersplints right now, the latter for her bandwagon vote on the sig lynch (although others in the second group qualify too).

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace Zebra

More officially, Turnip Head, Turnip Head.

[Golden]

I'm voting double bubbles.

[Marmot]

Rest in peace Zebra

More officially, Turnip Head, Turnip Head.

It's a placeholder. It's a placeholder.

[Turnip Head]

My number #1 choice to lynch right now is Typhoony.

"Hello, left field. It's me, Epi."

[Typhoony]

My number #1 choice to lynch right now is Typhoony.

Explain.