Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Game Over

[LoRab]

@matt: I was afk for a couple of hours and just saw your question. Is it my favorite? Not really, but I like it fine. None of my favorite music genres were listed. I went with the choice I thought was best of the given options.

[Golden]

Are you still assuming Wilgy was the Trickster, Golden? If so, alrighty. If not, what do you make of his "Beware the Lorab" ?

Not assuming he must have been... but thinking it is a viable theory.

[Golden]

As for lorab - I have no reason to assume she is good and I actually spent a large chunk of this game feeling like she had posted a lot but her thoughts were within quite a limited range. In that respect, I still think LoRab could be bad. But on recent days I've felt her content is more civ like, and I also have a theory that she is in a particular role that I think might be civ. I don't intend to vote for LoRab today.

[Turnip Head]

I don't intend to vote for LoRab today.

Who do you intend to vote for? You were not so deliberate yesterday.

[Golden]

I don't intend to vote for LoRab today.

Who do you intend to vote for? You were not so deliberate yesterday.

Yesterday I set out the three people I most suspected very early. Today I've done the same. I've been very deliberate with my strategy all game, although I'll admit not always entirely forthcoming.

I gave my view on LoRab because Matt F specifically asked me about it.

[Turnip Head]

I mean that you voted very quickly yesterday, and today you have not.

[Golden]

I mean that you voted very quickly yesterday, and today you have not.

That's true. Yesterday I had a plan. Today I don't.

Sometimes in this game I've voted early and other times I haven't. There is no deeper meaning to it. I think you only noticed because my early vote yesterday was for you.

[Tranq]

@ Turnip Head: What do you think of Timmer? I went through your posts, you have exactly 0 interactions with Timmer, and only one of your posts mentions him. This one here, where you ask MM why he wants to lynch Timmer:

Why aren't we lynching timmer anymore?

timmer

Why do you want to lynch timmer?

MM later explained his suspicion of Timmer here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 05#p200205
You didn't comment on any of that. What are your thoughts on the Obsidian Dagger situation? Thoughts on Timmer in general?

Or you and DrWilgy are on the Circle together and decided it would be better to get DrWilgy lynched, rather than you getting poison-lynched first followed by DrWilgy's lynch. DrWilgy saving himself by voting you wouldn't have prevented his lynch the following day as he mostly was a Cabal suspect anyway.

/theory

That is certainly a theory.

I doubt I would have even said anything if that were the case.

I don't think you planned to say anything, until it got pointed out that votes couldn't be changed. That's when the first hint dropped.

[Golden]

@tranq - the other question of relevance is... why is it ok to mention the poisoning today but not yesterday? Just an attempt to paint me as suspicious for misremembering what day I got poisoned on?

But, on the other hand, TH has a point... why mention it at all. It's not like it created a whole lot of traction for a lynch on me.

I don't understand it either way.

[Turnip Head]

I don't really have any thoughts on timmer, he is always a difficult player for me to read and he hasn't posted much. I think it's possible he's telling the truth, I can vouch that there are items with fucked up purposes. The rest of the case against him seems based on map happenings that I can't corroborate, and Golden seems to have slowed his roll with those accusations anyways.

You are missing the point of why I hinted at what I did and what it could tell me about other players in that moment. And I don't think this is finished being played out either.

[Golden]

Well, TH, perhaps you could be clear about what the point was?

[Turnip Head]

Well, TH, perhaps you could be clear about what the point was?

I could, Golden.

[Tranq]

To not get lynched?

[timmer]

Sorry for my absence all, I've decided I'm def. going on hiatus after this. I just don't have the time needed to participate properly. I've said all I'm going to say about the fucking Obsidian Dagger and all of that. I made a mistake in using an item which was not called a dagger at all, but only revealed to be one after I used it, and it cost dearly. I've not bothered picking any other items up because I'm not going through all of this again.

MM is wrong about me, just as Golden was wrong about me.

[Sorsha]

I implore you to actually read my posts and then tell me I could "easily be a teamie" of juliets.

I will reread you again. Do me a favor. Admit it's possible that a teamie of hers would push her into a tie knowing she would survive a lynch.

And again, please answer. Do you or do you not think we should utilize every bit of information we have (map based or not) to catch baddies? If you do think we should do this, then why did you just tell me not to use map reasons?

Matt- regarding the Juliets lynches. Do you think her teammates would have been more likely to have been flip-floppy on suspecting her or just avoided suspecting her in general? Juliets is a hard player to read so I'm not sure that someone being unsure about her would be unusual. If you looked at some of the other players actions during the Juliets lynches I think you find similar suspicious behavior. And not all of them could be her teammates.

[LoRab]

Sorry for my absence all, I've decided I'm def. going on hiatus after this. I just don't have the time needed to participate properly. I've said all I'm going to say about the fucking Obsidian Dagger and all of that. I made a mistake in using an item which was not called a dagger at all, but only revealed to be one after I used it, and it cost dearly. I've not bothered picking any other items up because I'm not going through all of this again.

MM is wrong about me, just as Golden was wrong about me.

But in a game in which it is clear that not everything is what it seems, why would you take an item and use it on another player? And it doesn't really make sense to me that an item that does something entirely good has to be used on another and can't be used on yourself? Did you think you were giving puppies and rainbows to Epig and that's why you used it on him? Or some other sort of good thing, but I'm going with puppies and rainbows. Also, I now hope to see puppies and rainbows as something you can do to another player in a future Rock Con game.

And, that said, why would you boon another player with an item, not knowing what their team was? I mean, sure we all have players that we have limited trust for, but enough to give puppies and rainbows to? I'm not so sure.

Your defense just doesn't hold true for me.

[Sorsha]

In other news: Is no one suspicious of Bass anymore? It seems like he drops in here and there to vote and leave some random post but isn't doing much of anything else. I'd think he is a good candidate for the last cabal member?

[Dom]

I think I can trust LoRab and think you are very wrong about her.
I do not trust Matt F because he clearly has no idea what he's talking about.
Timmer? I could see. I'm more inclined to think Bass or FS are bad.

I think we should lync timmer, then LoRab, then you.

that's funny

[timmer]

Lorab, I had just been in the same place as Sig and epig and then Sig died. The item was supposed to provide an alignment check so I used it on epig to see if he had likely killed Sig. Instead he died and the item changed to a dagger. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

If I'm bad I had no reason to reveal any of this in the first place.

[Turnip Head]

timmer who do you think is bad?

[Dom]

In other news: Is no one suspicious of Bass anymore? It seems like he drops in here and there to vote and leave some random post but isn't doing much of anything else. I'd think he is a good candidate for the last cabal member?

I am.

[Matt]

So Turnip, you said you wanted to vote me early to see what happens.

Did ummm anything happen yet?

[Tranq]

Lorab, I had just been in the same place as Sig and epig and then Sig died. The item was supposed to provide an alignment check so I used it on epig to see if he had likely killed Sig. Instead he died and the item changed to a dagger. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

If I'm bad I had no reason to reveal any of this in the first place.

The items i've encountered have been pretty straightforward.

"This is item xxx. Do you want to pick it up?
Yes.
Congrats, you now have xxx. This is what it does."

I suppose it's possible you've grabbed an item created by the Cursecrafter.

Cursecrafter - Can create items to leave on a location that seem to have a minor positive effect, but may hide a greater negative one.

I think an item created by the Cursecrafter has negative side effects. I don't think they would change into a different item. Also i don't think the Cursecrafter would create items that could end up killing him
Has anyone else encountered an item that ended up changing into a different item?

[Bullzeye]

Has anyone else encountered an item that ended up changing into a different item?

I've not even encountered a single item yet unless notes left by Pixies and/or baddies count.

[fingersplints]

No, I have encountered an item that had different, extra negative effects then the positive effect described, but it still was the same item. I'm pretty positive this was a cursecrafter item as it fits the description perfectly.

I'm still suspicious of bass, and am fairly sure I will be voting him. (I would now to try and motivate him to discussing but not sure if changeable today).

I don't know what to make of Matt. I agree with whoever said he is usually more focused on a player when he truly suspects them, so that is troubling, but I'm not sure if it's enough for me to vote him yet.

[fingersplints]

I have a hard time suspecting Timmer based on this accusation though given other events. I get he could be lying, but I'm not sure yet. He seems distracted, so I could see him using an item he found without thinking much about it. I do agree with whoever said it though that Epi was a weird choice

[Sorsha]

My thoughts on bass from a few days ago:

I just looked over bass's posts and not liking them. When it was Juliets vs Canuck he decided to vote for Canuck then the next two lynches when Juliets was a candidate he was a no show. He's showed up to vote in the night polls but not the lynch polls plus he's been posting elsewhere on the forums during all of this.

I don't know how he voted in the Floyd poll because the poll thread hasn't been updated for over a week

[Long Con]

[Long Con]

[Long Con]

[Long Con]

[Long Con]

My thoughts on bass from a few days ago:

I just looked over bass's posts and not liking them. When it was Juliets vs Canuck he decided to vote for Canuck then the next two lynches when Juliets was a candidate he was a no show. He's showed up to vote in the night polls but not the lynch polls plus he's been posting elsewhere on the forums during all of this.

I don't know how he voted in the Floyd poll because the poll thread hasn't been updated for over a week

Geez, buncha whiners! Poll thread updated.

[Sorsha]

Thanks LC

Ok so it looks like bass hasn't voted in a lynch poll since day 5 when Canuck got lynched

[Bullzeye]

Thanks LC

Ok so it looks like bass hasn't voted in a lynch poll since day 5 when Canuck got lynched

How has he got away with not participating for half the game?

[Sorsha]

Thanks LC

Ok so it looks like bass hasn't voted in a lynch poll since day 5 when Canuck got lynched

How has he got away with not participating for half the game?

He replaced reywaS on day three. So he voted days 3-5 and after that it's just been night polls if anything. He's just been out of sight out of mind for most of us I think.

[Bass_the_Clever]

In other news: Is no one suspicious of Bass anymore? It seems like he drops in here and there to vote and leave some random post but isn't doing much of anything else. I'd think he is a good candidate for the last cabal member?

I mean sorry I play when I can.

[Bass_the_Clever]

I think timer is alright I do t get why sorsha is going after me because I haven't posted much. Sorcha is there anyone that's posting that you think is bad beside going for a lie poster?

[Bass_the_Clever]

Oh by the way I voter and happy Thanksgiving mother fuckers . Lol

[Bullzeye]

I think timer is alright I do t get why sorsha is going after me because I haven't posted much. Sorcha is there anyone that's posting that you think is bad beside going for a lie poster?

Other than "because she voted for you", is there any real reason you voted Sorsha? You've missed half the lynch polls in the game, do you have any actual suspicions to throw in?

[fingersplints]

Yea I'm voting Bass. There is loads more then just "you aren't posting". First you tried to argue that 2 lynches wasn't the most civvie friendly choice, then waffled on that a bit when questioned. You Supported a Canuck vote over juliets. Didn't name any other suspicions. (Although I noticed you mentioned trust of SVS). followed by a no u for Sorsha. I get you are busy. I am too. I don't expect a lot from you but something would be nice.

[Golden]

Bass has fallen off my radar a lot but splints post has reminded me of a lot of the reason I found him suspicious in the early game. I could be on board with a bass vote.

I don't know if timmer is good but I'm pretty sure he has been honest about the obsidian dagger. I don't think he knew what it was. That's why I've not been pursuing him as much.

[Marmot]

Golden, I don't have time for a lot of detail here, but I think I can say that you have hit on some truth but are misguided about some things as well. I am not a fan of info dumping but will say that I have come into contact with an item that was not actually what it said it was and there have been consequences. I've tried to help the cause and ultimately it seems have caused more trouble than anything.

timmer, I don't believe you wert this statement. I don't think you could use a dagger on another player without knowledge of what it could do (if I'm reading the accusation correctly against you from Golden). You did not post in the thread leading up to the start of Day 6. Epignosis was killed 2 hours after Day 6 started. You did not post during this time either, and didn't post again until 12 hours after Epignosis's death.

I think the timing of Epignosis's death, along with Golden's accusations against you imply a malevolent intent. You had a questionable item in your hands that you used on Epignosis. Did you bother to ask him if he'd mind you testing an item on him?

Golden, what do you think about the timing of everything, as I mentioned here?

[Tranq]

Bass has made 1 post in the game which made me think he's genuine. This one here:

I voted that way because more people I trusted voted that way and I wasn't keeping up as much as I should have been.

This is exactly how i felt as a civ during the Pet Sounds speed game.

If he's bad i think he's more likely to be Cabal than Circle.

I'm looking at a Timmer or Turnip Head vote atm.

[Golden]

I'm up for a TH vote, tranq.

@MM - the timing and lots of other stuff... I mean, I agree there are still good reasons to suspect timmer. In some ways, timmer being lynched could make a lot of things clear. But, when the one theory I had I now think is wrong (that timmer had items, and knew he was killig epi with an obisidian dagger) it is harder for me to judge the rest of my case. It was that part of the case which made me feel sure.

[Matt]

If Bass is bad, what does he gain from missing three consecutive lynches? He would have to know that would bring him major heat. Even if he is civ. Something is fishy here.

Sorsha, you seem to have been keeping close tabs on Bass with several posts updating us on when he missed two votes, and then three. Are you aware of the Possessing Entity role? It's power is secret, but I'm guessing it possesses other players in some way. Do you think it's possible that Bass has simply been possessed and was forced to miss votes? The only problem I'd have with this is typically you cannot double target, however, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a player can't be possessed for several day phases in a row before being released. ASSUMING that's how the PE's power works in the first place.

I don't know, I just think it's weird how Bass hasn't even made any public apologies to the hosts for missing votes, just says he's been "super busy".

[Bullzeye]

If Bass is bad, what does he gain from missing three consecutive lynches? He would have to know that would bring him major heat. Even if he is civ. Something is fishy here.

Sorsha, you seem to have been keeping close tabs on Bass with several posts updating us on when he missed two votes, and then three. Are you aware of the Possessing Entity role? It's power is secret, but I'm guessing it possesses other players in some way. Do you think it's possible that Bass has simply been possessed and was forced to miss votes? The only problem I'd have with this is typically you cannot double target, however, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a player can't be possessed for several day phases in a row before being released. ASSUMING that's how the PE's power works in the first place.

I don't know, I just think it's weird how Bass hasn't even made any public apologies to the hosts for missing votes, just says he's been "super busy".

You're making a lot of assumptions. Why would someone who could possess players even bother with Bass when he's not around? Besides which, the fact he's been quiet isn't really one of the reasons he looks suspicious.

[Tranq]

I'm up for a TH vote, tranq.

I'm putting a vote on TH now which i may or may not change to Timmer later. I wouldn't mind hearing other people's thoughts on TH first.

@MM - the timing and lots of other stuff... I mean, I agree there are still good reasons to suspect timmer. In some ways, timmer being lynched could make a lot of things clear. But, when the one theory I had I now think is wrong (that timmer had items, and knew he was killig epi with an obisidian dagger) it is harder for me to judge the rest of my case. It was that part of the case which made me feel sure.

The part i'm having trouble with is how an item changed into a completely different item. Timmer said he got an alignment check which turned into an Obsidian Dagger. As fingersplints said, that doesn't sound like how the Cursecrafter's items work:

No, I have encountered an item that had different, extra negative effects then the positive effect described, but it still was the same item. I'm pretty positive this was a cursecrafter item as it fits the description perfectly.

I believe there are 2 types of items on this map:
- items the Cursecrafter created. Minor positive effect, greater negative one. I'd say that beacon of light was one of them.
- items LC created. Role related items like the Mirror of Truth, or the Star Gem. Other items which you can pretty much guess what they do by looking at the name of them.

I'd say the Obsidian Dagger is one of LC's items, and Timmer is making that alignment check story up
Timmer, can you tell us the name of the item you used on Epignosis?

[Golden]

If Bass is bad, what does he gain from missing three consecutive lynches? He would have to know that would bring him major heat. Even if he is civ. Something is fishy here.

Sorsha, you seem to have been keeping close tabs on Bass with several posts updating us on when he missed two votes, and then three. Are you aware of the Possessing Entity role? It's power is secret, but I'm guessing it possesses other players in some way. Do you think it's possible that Bass has simply been possessed and was forced to miss votes? The only problem I'd have with this is typically you cannot double target, however, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a player can't be possessed for several day phases in a row before being released. ASSUMING that's how the PE's power works in the first place.

I don't know, I just think it's weird how Bass hasn't even made any public apologies to the hosts for missing votes, just says he's been "super busy".

I am paranoid about the possessing entity's ability too. If I had a guess, it would be that it does something that appears to us like it is someone else - whether that be something like we think we have btsc with someone but it is really someone else... or that he can trade positive/negative targetting with someone so that he gets the benefits and the other player gets the negatives.

@tranq - ok, but my problem with seeing timmer as having made that stuff up is... I don't think he did. I have pretty solid reasons to believe he didn't lie about it.

I'll vote TH now as well. It's interesting that you see Bass as Cabal (although I'd be quite comfortable if we took out Cabal today anyway), but I actually think there has been a bit of push back against the Bass suspicion. I could see Bass being circle.

[S~V~S]

Hey Happy Thanksgiving American people:)

And thanks, non American people, for putting up with the expanded day for our sakes.

Gonna start readingback & catching up. I also got a new laptop this weekend, and am not used to the keyboard configuration. I see new & interesting Typos in my future

[LoRab]

Pondering the timmer stuff.

I think timer is alright I do t get why sorsha is going after me because I haven't posted much. Sorcha is there anyone that's posting that you think is bad beside going for a lie poster?

I don't think the case against you is that you are a low poster, per se. That you make it out to be that Sorsha (and others, but you only name Sorsha) is going after you because you're a low poster doesn't ring true to me and doesn't make you seem civ to me. This response I find quite suspish.