Mafia: A World Reborn Game Thread - Game Over

#3501

S~V~S wrote:Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?

That depends on what you're seeing.

#3502

What fucking list?

#3503

I can see your point, SVS. It's the kind of thing I would do. I'd have to look back over Matt F generally to see if I agree, though... eg, did he put any suspicion on timmer around that time, for example.

#3504

Bullzeye wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?
That depends on what you're seeing.

Am *I* tunneling?

#3505

S~V~S wrote:Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?

Yes. It sounds fishy. Especially for Matt. I'm not sure I believe if he truly had this info he wouldn't have been on timmers ass sooner. Why now

#3506

S~V~S wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?
That depends on what you're seeing.

Am *I* tunneling?

#3507

This whole thing reminds me of MPs "parchment" in SOT. I am not liking it, and the fact that it involves the 3 people I listed in my

post answer to Dom about whom I suspected is kinda

#3508

Matt wrote:If Bass is bad, what does he gain from missing three consecutive lynches? He would have to know that would bring him major heat. Even if he is civ. Something is fishy here.

Sorsha, you seem to have been keeping close tabs on Bass with several posts updating us on when he missed two votes, and then three. Are you aware of the Possessing Entity role? It's power is secret, but I'm guessing it possesses other players in some way. Do you think it's possible that Bass has simply been possessed and was forced to miss votes? The only problem I'd have with this is typically you cannot double target, however, it's not out of the realm of possibility that a player can't be possessed for several day phases in a row before being released. ASSUMING that's how the PE's power works in the first place.

I don't know, I just think it's weird how Bass hasn't even made any public apologies to the hosts for missing votes, just says he's been "super busy".

No, I don't usually go off on strange tangents speculating on what a secret role night or might not do. And I think it would be completely unfair to a player to have their participation in a game compromised like that for such a long period of time. I think bass is a baddie laying low.

That being said I'm okay with a timmer lynch. There has been enough speculation on this for long enough that needs to get cleared up.

#3509

S~V~S wrote:Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?

I don't know if you're on drug or not :P but yes, I could see it. I have a few players I am very

about so it will be interesting to see how timmer flips here.

#3510

S~V~S wrote:This whole thing reminds me of MPs "parchment" in SOT. I am not liking it, and the fact that it involves the 3 people I listed in my post answer to Dom about whom I suspected is kinda

I agree it is suspish that Matt did nothing about the info sooner or suspect timer earlier. I can confirm that the list exists. I think it was tranquil who originally asked the question about the item's name? I assume he has read the list as well.

It is entirely possible that he is bad, had a teammate come across the list, and that is why he didn't mention it.

I agree it's like the parchment. But I think that it's the figurine that is made up.

#3511

I've voted TH in a sad effort to save myself. Why I'm bothering I have no idea.

#3512

#3513

SVS - I didn't give it any thought until Tranq mentioned wanting to know the name of the item Timmer ran across. At that point, it clicked, and I was like "good question" because I recalled I had the list. Simple forgetfulness. Though I like how Timmer hasn't even bothered to refute you when accusing us of being partners. Thanks there, Timmer, if you flip baddie, nice work.

Anyway, yes I have consistently voted MM because I think he's Dr Dre, and I think Dr Dre is either bad or indy despite whatever role he played in the last World game.

Btw, to anyone who thinks it's suspish that I "sat on info", I suppose each and every one of you has revealed what they have learned during their travels on the map? I know I have spoke about MM/Turnip at length, as well as writing an open letter to the Living Statue. What have the rest of you uncovered?

#3514

@Matt - I think there is a difference between revealing what you knew and, say, breadcrumbs showing your opinion on people. I may not always reveal everything I know, but generally speaking my opinions on people are still going to reflect what I have learned from my travels. I haven't looked back on you yet, but I am interested to see what you have said in the past about the dagger and timmer, and whether it is consistent with you having this info for three days.

#3515

Golden wrote:@Matt - I think there is a difference between revealing what you knew and, say, breadcrumbs showing your opinion on people. I may not always reveal everything I know, but generally speaking my opinions on people are still going to reflect what I have learned from my travels. I haven't looked back on you yet, but I am interested to see what you have said in the past about the dagger and timmer, and whether it is consistent with you having this info for three days.

I'll save you the trouble. I don't think I've said squat about the Dagger or Timmer. In fact, the other day Tranq asked me my opinion of Timmer, and as I told him, I wasn't really sure because pretty much this entire game I've been in several games at once PLUS I just started a new job last week (see speakeasy hot seat thread where I mentioned this two days ago to bea). Now I'm finally getting back into the groove.

I really don't think it's weird at all that I didn't mention this. As Lorab (and probably Tranq) can tell you, the list has about 15 or 20 items (maybe more) and I didn't even think twice when I saw "Obsidian Dagger" on it in the middle of all the other things. I think, ESPECIALLY if Dom is bad, some baddies know my role and are planning on getting rid of me the only way they can. For realz.

#3516

The post will be coming shortly, we had a long day.

#3517

OK, so from your perspective you haven't been sitting on that info (that Timmer has potentially been lying) for several phases - you only just put two and two together recently?

#3518

Golden wrote:OK, so from your perspective you haven't been sitting on that info (that Timmer has potentially been lying) for several phases - you only just put two and two together recently?

Yup. When Tranq said he wanted to know the name of the supposed item Timmer found, it clicked then. Anyway again, I'm not bussing. As you noticed, clever Tim Tim didn't even bother refuting SVS' claim that we're partners. This is going to sound effed up, but at this point if Timmer flipped civ, I would sigh in relief that SVS or anyone else can't come after me for this lol.

Anyway, whatevs let's see what happens.

#3519

I suspect this lynch is fucked up

#3520

-= Frigid =-

That day, it grew very cold. Gladius Mechaspark took the fur cloak he had packed away in one of his trunks, and put it on, shivering. As the snow began to blow, he travelled, searching for others who would help to seek the daily justice that the realm had become accustomed to.

For some time, he found nobody, and as the sun began to set, he settled in to light a fire. The snow was beginning to accumulate, and the wind was blowing harder. As the blaze grew and began to cast a warmth in a real way, he noticed a pair of eyes flashing in the darkness across from him.

"Ho there!" he called out, his hand moving to his Ionic Photon Repeler. "Are you friend or foe?"

"Friend, I hope," came the quiet voice from the shadows. The Feral Pixie crept out tentatively, dressed only in scant rags.

Gladius' eyes widened, and called out to her. "My god, come here, girl!" He opened his voluminous fur cloak. "Come and warm up, you must be freezing!"

She hesitated, and crept forward, coming around the fire, and settled in next to him. She leaned against him as he brought the cloak closed around them both. "Turnip Head, it was supposed to be," she whispered.

"What's that?" he asked, not understanding.

"They were going to lynch Turnip Head today," she said softly, leaning her head on his shoulder and gazing into the fire. "But this storm has kept everyone in hiding, and now the day is over."

"There's always tomorrow," said Gladius reassuringly, but she sighed.

"Are we going to make it, inverntor?" she asked sadly. "This cold isn't natural... it's the darkness that causes it."

"The Darkness? That demon was already vanquished!"

"The darkness of their hearts," she whispered, closing her eyes to sleep. "Can't you feel it all around us? The realm is ill, and I don't think it can be cured."

Turnip Head has not been lynched. It is now Night 10.

#3521

Ummmm okay.

Tim Tim, why was Turnip up for lynch?

#3522

Matt wrote:Ummmm okay.

Tim Tim, why was Turnip up for lynch?

I do not know.

#3523

timmer wrote:
Matt wrote:Ummmm okay.

Tim Tim, why was Turnip up for lynch?
I do not know.

Why didn't you refute SVS' claim that we are partners?

#3524

Matt wrote:
timmer wrote:
Matt wrote:Ummmm okay.

Tim Tim, why was Turnip up for lynch?
I do not know.
Why didn't you refute SVS' claim that we are partners?

How would I have any idea if you are partners with anyone?

#3525

Yikes.
I think it's pretty obvious why TH was not lynched instead of Timmer if you paid attention the other day.

Sorry guys. I just got home and caught up-- worked way more than expected. :/

TBH i'm confused by this whole situation and don't trust anyone involved. Matt F's witholding the knowledge sketches me out as much as Timmer's apparent murder.

#3526

timmer wrote:
Matt wrote:
timmer wrote:
Matt wrote:Ummmm okay.

Tim Tim, why was Turnip up for lynch?
I do not know.
Why didn't you refute SVS' claim that we are partners?
How would I have any idea if you are partners with anyone?

What does that mean? I asked you why you didn't refute SVS' claims that we (you and I) are partners?

Dom - Withholding info? Did you not read my response to that question already? I'd like to know, what is your opinion of my affiliation? You think I'm good, bad, or indy? Go.

#3527

Matt wrote:
timmer wrote:
Matt wrote:
timmer wrote:
Matt wrote:Ummmm okay.

Tim Tim, why was Turnip up for lynch?
I do not know.
Why didn't you refute SVS' claim that we are partners?
How would I have any idea if you are partners with anyone?
What does that mean? I asked you why you didn't refute SVS' claims that we (you and I) are partners?

Dom - Withholding info? Did you not read my response to that question already? I'd like to know, what is your opinion of my affiliation? You think I'm good, bad, or indy? Go.

I have been thinking civ/indy, but I really don't like the situation that's happening-- it doesn't read right to me.

#3528

Elaborate. What situation doesn't read right? Me having a list and not revealing that? Lorab, who you trust, has had a list two days longer then I have. Or do you mean Turnip getting lynched in place of Timmer? That seems weird to me, too, and considering Timmer's outright neglect to challenge SVS on her accusations of me and him, as well as his own responses to me, make me want to lynch the guy next day phase.

#3529

Matt wrote:Elaborate. What situation doesn't read right? Me having a list and not revealing that? Lorab, who you trust, has had a list two days longer then I have. Or do you mean Turnip getting lynched in place of Timmer? That seems weird to me, too, and considering Timmer's outright neglect to challenge SVS on her accusations of me and him, as well as his own responses to me, make me want to lynch the guy next day phase.

I don't really understand why you didn't say anything until now?

#3530

I think I need to reread the day when I'm not coming off a 12 hour customer service nightmare.

#3531

It never crossed my mind to. In fact, most games don't allow you to discuss PMs but I just checked and luckily I don't think I broke any rules because all it says is no reproducing PMs for this one.

And if that's the case, that makes me think we can claim whatever. In that case, I'd like some peeps to spill the beans on stuff they think they know. No more of these "breadcrumbs" as Golden put it, from reading the rules, there's nothing saying we can't discuss what we've found, as long as you don't discuss your map btsc, reproduce PMs, or discuss specific map coordinates.

So, spill.

#3532

Matt wrote:It never crossed my mind to. In fact, most games don't allow you to discuss PMs but I just checked and luckily I don't think I broke any rules because all it says is no reproducing PMs for this one.

And if that's the case, that makes me think we can claim whatever. In that case, I'd like some peeps to spill the beans on stuff they think they know. No more of these "breadcrumbs" as Golden put it, from reading the rules, there's nothing saying we can't discuss what we've found, as long as you don't discuss your map btsc, reproduce PMs, or discuss specific map coordinates.

So, spill.

what does this even mean

#3533

I think it's important that subtlety does not lose its place in mafia.

#3534

Turnip Head wrote:I think it's important that subtlety does not lose its place in mafia.

I don't think it is a question of 'mafia should be subtle'. I play a pretty direct game, not a subtle game. But it comes with its risks.

#3535

Sorry to interrupt. Can you guys check this out and let me know what you think? http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 27#p201427

#3536

Timmers vote was weird. I knew something was going to happen after that. Why would he have voted TH to save himself when I'm pretty sure bass had two votes. Why put TH at two for a save when you could put bass at 3? This makes no sense to me and makes both bass and timmer look even worse.

timmer wrote:I've voted TH in a sad effort to save myself. Why I'm bothering I have no idea.

I voted no for the posting competition for obvious reasons.

#3537

I'm against any contest that I probably can't win.

#3538

I'm not sure how comfortable I feel being completely open about items as Matt is suggesting. It feels a bit out of the spirit of the game (although not technically against the rules) and I don't want to give the baddies a shit ton of item information they don't already have.
Fortunately for me, it doesn't matter, as the only item I have encountered blew up.

#3539

Bullzeye wrote:I'm against any contest that I probably can't win.

Lol this was my obvious reason too

I don't stand a chance.

#3540

Matt wrote:Elaborate. What situation doesn't read right? Me having a list and not revealing that? Lorab, who you trust, has had a list two days longer then I have. Or do you mean Turnip getting lynched in place of Timmer? That seems weird to me, too, and considering Timmer's outright neglect to challenge SVS on her accusations of me and him, as well as his own responses to me, make me want to lynch the guy next day phase.

Claim =/= suspicion, Matt, and claim=/= belief. And yeah, I am sure you do want to lynch him tomorrow. Like Juliets, too little too late IMO. An.d my point was that YOU, Matt, had a list for 3 days & made a tangent vote each day. You made no attempt to discuss Timmer or this list. When thediscussion was about items, and you knew what they were and did not bring this up? I am sorry, but I don't think I buy that.

Tell me, Matt, what is your opinion of TH being the person apparently lynched, and then surviving?

I have no intention of "spilling" anything I have learned on the map even if it is not explicitly against the rules. I am a firm believer in playing with the spirit of the law in mind as opposed to the letter of the law, and I don't want to make it necessary for hosts to have 2 pages of explicit rules in order to play a game without "spoilers".

I am voting Yes! I love a good posting contest

#3541

I'm not sure why anyone would be confused as to why TH had the most votes if they are paying the least bit of attention to the game.

@TH: Do you know why you survived the lynch?

#3542

Yup

#3543

S~V~S wrote:
Matt wrote:Elaborate. What situation doesn't read right? Me having a list and not revealing that? Lorab, who you trust, has had a list two days longer then I have. Or do you mean Turnip getting lynched in place of Timmer? That seems weird to me, too, and considering Timmer's outright neglect to challenge SVS on her accusations of me and him, as well as his own responses to me, make me want to lynch the guy next day phase.

Claim =/= suspicion, Matt, and claim=/= belief. And yeah, I am sure you do want to lynch him tomorrow. Like Juliets, too little too late IMO. An.d my point was that YOU, Matt, had a list for 3 days & made a tangent vote each day. You made no attempt to discuss Timmer or this list. When thediscussion was about items, and you knew what they were and did not bring this up? I am sorry, but I don't think I buy that.

Tell me, Matt, what is your opinion of TH being the person apparently lynched, and then surviving?

I have no intention of "spilling" anything I have learned on the map even if it is not explicitly against the rules. I am a firm believer in playing with the spirit of the law in mind as opposed to the letter of the law, and I don't want to make it necessary for hosts to have 2 pages of explicit rules in order to play a game without "spoilers".

I am voting Yes! I love a good posting contest

1. Too little too late? This reads to me like you know 100% that Timmer will flip bad. I think he will, especially given the results last night and Timmer's, again, outright neglect to answer my question on why he refused to refute your claims that we are partners, but I'm not at 100%. Are you at 100% SVS? Because ever since the list has been brought up, you've been all over me like I'm Timmer's baddie partner w/o even knowing if Timmer is bad yet.

Speaking of which, SVS, what do you think of Timmer's outright refusal to comment on your accusations of me and him? Him staying silent makes me look worse, IMO, so agaiin Tim Tim, good job. SVS, if I really was Timmer's teammate, do you think he would refute your claims or stay silent on the matter?

Per the underline, SVS is tunneling me right now so I'm not sure she'll believe this, so hey Lorab, can you let SVS know that I did not know what the Obsidian Dagger (or any of the other items) did, all I had was a name to an item? Thank you.

Again, yes, I had this info for three days and said nothing. Why? Because it simply didn't occur to me. The list had many items on it, and it's not as if Obsidian Dagger was in big font, bright colors, it was smack in the middle of the rest of the items, and unfortunately, while Timmer was discussing this supposed other item he had instead, it never clicked for me to ask. But once Tranq asked the name of the item, I had that very awesome "a-ha!" moment, and pursued it myself. In fact, I'd dare say w/o me bringing up the list yesterday, Timmer wouldn't have gotten all those votes so quickly following.

I also find it HILARIOUS that SVS is on my case for not sharing information, then goes on to say she won't share information.

On that note, btw, the baddies more then likely have much more information then any one civvie, so I would say my asking people to spill what they know would help the town immensely more then it would the Mafia, but hey, if you don't want to share SVS, and town loses, that's on you.

#3544

Matt wrote:
Per the underline, SVS is tunneling me right now so I'm not sure she'll believe this, so hey Lorab, can you let SVS know that I did not know what the Obsidian Dagger (or any of the other items) did, all I had was a name to an item? Thank you.

I'm not sharing detailed information, because I think that goes against the spirit of the game.

That said, assuming we came across the information in the same way, while you may not know about the Obsidian Dagger, I can't say that it's accurate that you don't know about any of the items on the list. So, what you say is partially accurate, but not entirely truthful.

#3545

LoRab wrote:
Matt wrote:
Per the underline, SVS is tunneling me right now so I'm not sure she'll believe this, so hey Lorab, can you let SVS know that I did not know what the Obsidian Dagger (or any of the other items) did, all I had was a name to an item? Thank you.
I'm not sharing detailed information, because I think that goes against the spirit of the game.

That said, assuming we came across the information in the same way, while you may not know about the Obsidian Dagger, I can't say that it's accurate that you don't know about any of the items on the list. So, what you say is partially accurate, but not entirely truthful.

Tell me, what were your two answers? Mine was Star Gem and the Book. I should've answered Obsidian Dagger for the second answer, but it didn't even cross my mind.

As for all this "spirit of the game", I'm going by the rules set forth by our lovely hosts. If others wish to keep silent on what they have, fine, but I hardly find it against the "spirit of the game". Also, I happen to know Long Con read a personal PM from me last night not having to do with the game, yet never sent me any reprimands regarding all of this "anti-spirit of the game" stuff I've been doing, so I think it's cool peeps.

#3546

Imma cut this up as there is so much to respond to doing it at the end will be confusing. Replies in Pedantic.

Matt wrote:
1. Too little too late? This reads to me like you know 100% that Timmer will flip bad. I think he will, especially given the results last night and Timmer's, again, outright neglect to answer my question on why he refused to refute your claims that we are partners, but I'm not at 100%. Are you at 100% SVS? Because ever since the list has been brought up, you've been all over me like I'm Timmer's baddie partner w/o even knowing if Timmer is bad yet.

I do not know that 100%. I have made an educated guess that points to him being bad. You keeping that info under your hat pretty much convinced me of it, though.

Speaking of which, SVS, what do you think of Timmer's outright refusal to comment on your accusations of me and him? Him staying silent makes me look worse, IMO, so agaiin Tim Tim, good job. SVS, if I really was Timmer's teammate, do you think he would refute your claims or stay silent on the matter?

I don't think he is making you look worse, and he has repeatedly said he is not engaging,butkeepsdpoing so anyhow. I think is making HIMSELF look worse,which is maybe the point, hrm?

Per the underline, SVS is tunneling me right now so I'm not sure she'll believe this, so hey Lorab, can you let SVS know that I did not know what the Obsidian Dagger (or any of the other items) did, all I had was a name to an item? Thank you.

That should have been in sarcasm, Matt. Ithink I know what a "list" is.

Again, yes, I had this info for three days and said nothing. Why? Because it simply didn't occur to me. The list had many items on it, and it's not as if Obsidian Dagger was in big font, bright colors, it was smack in the middle of the rest of the items, and unfortunately, while Timmer was discussing this supposed other item he had instead, it never clicked for me to ask. But once Tranq asked the name of the item, I had that very awesome "a-ha!" moment, and pursued it myself. In fact, I'd dare say w/o me bringing up the list yesterday, Timmer wouldn't have gotten all those votes so quickly following.

I know we addressed this before,but you are the guy who can drag one vote in a day zero poll into a whole games worth of tunnelling. There was much discussion of this dagger, and you never even looked at yourlist? OK, sure.

I also find it HILARIOUS that SVS is on my case for not sharing information, then goes on to say she won't share information. On that note, btw, the baddies more then likely have much more information then any one civvie, so I would say my asking people to spill what they know would help the town immensely more then it would the Mafia, but hey, if you don't want to share SVS, and town loses, that's on you.

Did it ever occur to you that the civs might have already spilled,and excluded you? And playing a fair game is more important to me than winning, I would rather lose than win via a method I consider to be unfair. So if me not spilling what I know to the thread at large,as opposed to individuals I trust leads the town tolose, Iam sorry, but that's just how it is.

Also, here is a post of yours from Mon., Nov 16:

Matt wrote:Drac, do you think the person with the Obsidian Dagger killed Epig to frame you or juliets, or do you think you or juliets killed Epig?

Which was an odd thing to day considering that Golden had SAID Timmer was the dagger user. The point is though ,you had followed the dagger discussion BEFORE you got your list

Then this isfrom Day *,Fri Nov 20, after you got the list.

Matt wrote:I dunno about Lorab. Again, the first two times juliets was lynched Lorab voted for Mac.

Here is an interesting quote from after Mac was non-lynched...

LoRab wrote:
MacDougall wrote:No tie breaker = juliets has negative votes right?
Or you have additional votes.
She would eventually place a vote on juliets after this was said (after 7 others did and she was clearly being lynched that day), but I dunno. Does this seem like she's defending juliets or is she still eyeing Mac?

Also, Epig specifically asked Lorab how she felt about Luke after Luke was lynched. Lorab said she would elaborate on her thoughts on Luke later, but never does, save one post where she believes that juliet was a Luke teamie.

Shortly afterwards, Epig was killed by the Obsidian Dagger. I wonder, why would Epig specifically ask Lorab about Luke?

Again, kinda linking the dagger to people other than Timmer. But again, you were well aware of the dagger discussion.

#3547

EBWOP, Day 8

I just got a new computer, and the keyboard is smaller & somewhat differently laid out, so I have been typo-ing even more than usual

#3548

S~V~S wrote:Did it ever occur to you that the civs might have already spilled,and excluded you? And playing a fair game is more important to me than winning

Which is why you trusted my information in good faith and immediately voted Timmer?

Anyway, I think Timmer refusing to answer you does make me look worse. I'm surprised you don't see it.

I'm also not asking anyone to break rules. Was I reprimanded when I brought up the TH/MM stuff? Nope, in fact I even was given permission. Golden seemed to have been a-okay talking about the Timmer stuff. Turnip Head seems to be okay after letting me know that Epig was also around when Turnip was dead. Anyone else that has mentioned map stuff, you seem to be doing fine. To villainize (sp?) me for asking to spill map stuff when it has CLEARLY been a-okay to do so up to this point is interesting, tbh.

SVS - Have you completely ignored the fact that I've said repeatedly up until recently, I've been in about 3 games since this game started? Or that I just started a new job last Saturday? I've had a hard time keeping up, so no, when I got that list along with having to catch up every single day in the thread, it did not jump out at me "Oh oh I better ask Timmer what this other item he got was." I notice Lorab never asked that question either. Why so focused on me but not Lorab? Or how about Tranq? I can't think of any reason Tranq would even ask Timmer that question unless he also has the list, but still all over me. Why?

Again, it's funny you're all over me for not sharing info, then go on to say you won't share info because it's against the spirit of the game. Good stuff, keep it comin'.

#3549

No ,not "Not sharing info" I meant not using it as the basis for a case and building a tunnel out of it, as YOU (not me, YOU) might beexpected to do. You can stop trying to switch my very obvious meaning back onto me. Other than that one post, you sat on it for days. I think you were thrwoing Timmer under the bus in order to save someone else, tbh.

Which is why I immediately voted for him. And I clearly said so at the time. I think you chucked Timmer under the Greyhound, which would make him bad.

#3550

S~V~S wrote:No ,not "Not sharing info" I meant not using it as the basis for a case and building a tunnel out of it, as YOU (not me, YOU) might beexpected to do. You can stop trying to switch my very obvious meaning back onto me. Other than that one post, you sat on it for days. I think you were thrwoing Timmer under the bus in order to save someone else, tbh.

Which is why I immediately voted for him. And I clearly said so at the time. I think you chucked Timmer under the Greyhound, which would make him bad.

Would you agree that me sharing about Turnip/MM, Golden sharing about Timmer, Turnip sharing about Epig, and on and on and on has not once been met with a reprimand from the hosts?

If you would agree with that, then why are you so against sharing?

Who to lynch? 24 hour day!