Tree Mafia [GAME OVER]

#251

Look at me, I'm a lurker! What a wild new world!

Anyway, pre-game peeks are randomized and always on townies. Unless MM adapted some new variety of peek which can be chosen for this game, Wilgy is lying about his red peek. I am reading the thread to indicate however that his false red might have been correctly placed, because I have been pretty underwhelmed with the way Diiny has handled it. He's been tame -- patience isn't necessarily a problem, but there's been no bite in his fight. No exasperation, no frustration, no emotion -- not what I would expect from any townie being called a red peek before it's even possible to be a red peek.

The fun thing is: DrWilgy's lie doesn't preclude him from being the cop. Or from being vanilla town. This is a setup that promotes controlled lying from townies and I am struggling to find a realistic mafia angle to explain what he's done. Well that's why he's doing it, JJJ!. Could be, but I don't take that first step of WIFOM without inspiration.

#252

a2thezebra wrote:especially considering your current vote is on probably the least suspicious player in the game at this point, including yours truly

On Day 1, someone is only suspicious or not suspicious because people judge them to be such. You think Floyd is less suspicious than say, Sorsha or DFaraday?

In case it isn't plain, I plan to vote TheFloyd73 every day for his chronic non-participation. If he changes that, my opinion of him may change. May change.

#253

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Look at me, I'm a lurker! What a wild new world!

Anyway, pre-game peeks are randomized and always on townies. Unless MM adapted some new variety of peek which can be chosen for this game, Wilgy is lying about his red peek. I am reading the thread to indicate however that his false red might have been correctly placed, because I have been pretty underwhelmed with the way Diiny has handled it. He's been tame -- patience isn't necessarily a problem, but there's been no bite in his fight. No exasperation, no frustration, no emotion -- not what I would expect from any townie being called a red peek before it's even possible to be a red peek.

The fun thing is: DrWilgy's lie doesn't preclude him from being the cop. Or from being vanilla town. This is a setup that promotes controlled lying from townies and I am struggling to find a realistic mafia angle to explain what he's done. Well that's why he's doing it, JJJ!. Could be, but I don't take that first step of WIFOM without inspiration.

Which is more or less what FZ. said, and I understood it perfectly, and a2z is writing a novel about her of which Ayn Rand would be proud.

#254

Epignosis wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:especially considering your current vote is on probably the least suspicious player in the game at this point, including yours truly
On Day 1, someone is only suspicious or not suspicious because people judge them to be such. You think Floyd is less suspicious than say, Sorsha or DFaraday?

In case it isn't plain, I plan to vote TheFloyd73 every day for his chronic non-participation. If he changes that, my opinion of him may change. May change.

Yes, I think Floyd is less suspicious than say, Sorsha or DFaraday. Your "suspicion" of Floyd is personal and at least you're more or less admitting it here, but that doesn't change the fact that you are advocating a policy lynch over many other town-preferable options. If you don't like his participation in the site, then there are other ways of handling it besides dragging down our chances of winning.

#255

Epignosis wrote:This post is biggest bunch of zebra shit I've ever seen.

I'm reminded of your prophetic "This is horseshit" in Talking Heads in response to a Russ post about Black Rock (both mafia). For that reason I'm especially interested in Epi abruptly calling posts some manner of shit. Could you point out the moments in that Zebra post which inspired this reaction from you? Maybe I'll agree.

#256

I also look forward to Epi elaborating on, well anything really.

#257

*quietly sits back and munches on popcorn*

#258

a2thezebra wrote:I also look forward to Epi elaborating on, well anything really.

This post is without purpose. Why is this post on my screen? What inspired its creation?

#259

DrWilgy wrote:*quietly sits back and munches on popcorn*

Hmmm... Wilgy, this post is without purpose. Why is this post on my screen? What inspired its creation?

#260

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I also look forward to Epi elaborating on, well anything really.
This post is without purpose. Why is this post on my screen? What inspired its creation?

Hmmm...I think I'll follow Wilgy's example for a bit. This isn't the unbiased JJJ that I'm used to.

#261

a2thezebra wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:I also look forward to Epi elaborating on, well anything really.
This post is without purpose. Why is this post on my screen? What inspired its creation?
Hmmm...I think I'll follow Wilgy's example for a bit. This isn't the unbiased JJJ that I'm used to.

Oh really? That incredibly substantive post made you feel that way? Exactly what would I say instead if I were The Real JJJ?

#262

Yup, definitely taking the role of observer for a while.

#263

a2thezebra wrote:Yup, definitely taking the role of observer for a while.

Nah, you don't go around knocking heads around and then bail into Observer Mode immediately upon receiving some of that treatment yourself.

#264

DrWilgy wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:*quietly sits back and munches on popcorn*
Hmmm... Wilgy, this post is without purpose. Why is this post on my screen? What inspired its creation?

Hmmm...I think I'll follow Wilgy's example for a bit. This isn't the unbiased Wilgy that I'm used to

#265

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Yup, definitely taking the role of observer for a while.
Nah, you don't go around knocking heads around and then bail into Observer Mode immediately upon receiving some of that treatment yourself.

Sure I do, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant of whatever consequences there may be.

#266

DrWilgy wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:*quietly sits back and munches on popcorn*
Hmmm... Wilgy, this post is without purpose. Why is this post on my screen? What inspired its creation?
Hmmm...I think I'll follow Wilgy's example for a bit. This isn't the unbiased Wilgy that I'm used to

Oh really? That incredibly substantive post made you feel that way? Exactly what would I say instead if I were The Real Wilgy?

#267

Wilgy, please stop spamming.

Zebra -- why "observe" now?

#268

Ok... I'm sorry...

#269

Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority.

#270

JJJ, can you ISO Diiny?

#271

Enrique wrote:He's lying, and I don't see any way it's civ-motivated. I say lynch him today, worry about Diiny later.

Do you see a logical mafia motive instead? I've noted your suggestion that he's trying to lure out the "real" cop -- do you feel then that a mafioso would engage in what would seem to be self-sacrifice (on Day 1 even) to achieve that goal?

#272

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:This post is biggest bunch of zebra shit I've ever seen.
I'm reminded of your prophetic "This is horseshit" in Talking Heads in response to a Russ post about Black Rock (both mafia). For that reason I'm especially interested in Epi abruptly calling posts some manner of shit. Could you point out the moments in that Zebra post which inspired this reaction from you? Maybe I'll agree.

a2thezebra wrote:Okay FZ, I was reluctant to call you out on misrepresenting my argument when it comes to what exactly I think Wilgy is doing in this game in the last post I made, because I feel like I call people out on that too often when it's not true and/or warranted. But this is just too much. Let me go back and take a look at your magnificent concoction of assumptions and straw man arguments.

"Magnificent concoction of assumptions and straw man arguments"

This phrase to be over the top and unwarranted. It's Day 1. I would think a civilian a2z would be welcome of such things, not be suspicious of them (not that I agree of this caricature of FZ.'s contributions).

It's especially ironic, since zebra said this about my intentions:

a2thezebra wrote:Your "suspicion" of Floyd is personal and at least you're more or less admitting it here, but that doesn't change the fact that you are advocating a policy lynch over many other town-preferable options. If you don't like his participation in the site, then there are other ways of handling it besides dragging down our chances of winning.

My vote for Floyd isn't personal, and it isn't a policy lynch over "many other town-preferable options." How would a2z know which options were in the civilians' best interest? Unless a2z is a cop (and I have no reason to believe that is the case), then this comment, too, is unwarranted. Far too many times have I witnessed Mafia coast to endgame by staying out of it. If Floyd is Mafia, then I have no intention of letting him coast. If he's a civilian, then he's not contributing and wins if he's dead anyway (from what I understand).

But marinate on the "many other town-preferable options" for a moment. Note that a2z never specified which options those were.

a2thezebra wrote:My work here is done. If the rest of town doesn't see the value in your lynch, that's their problem at this point.

Of what value is this post?

Finally, in the end of the zebrashit post, FZ. lays out a pair of scenarios and a2z calls her a liar. I don't understand that at all.

#273

a2thezebra wrote:Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority.

This would imply then that something you've said to this point has inspired doubt within you about your own objectivity? Which of your reads do you feel that way about if any?

#274

It's not self-sacrifice if he gets to stay.

I can see a way now that it could be civ-motivated, but I don't think it's likely at all. Time will tell etc.

#275

Enrique wrote:It's not self-sacrifice if he gets to stay.

I can see a way now that it could be civ-motivated, but I don't think it's likely at all. Time will tell etc.

Does something preclude you from expanding on that civ-motivated possibility? This question sounds condescending, that is not my intent.

#276

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority.
This would imply then that something you've said to this point has inspired doubt within you about your own objectivity? Which of your reads do you feel that way about if any?

This is not the case.

#277

DrWilgy wrote:JJJ, can you ISO Diiny?

response

#278

a2thezebra wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority.
This would imply then that something you've said to this point has inspired doubt within you about your own objectivity? Which of your reads do you feel that way about if any?
This is not the case.

If you're solid on your objectivity to this point, why have you made it a priority to step back and account for your objectivity?

#279

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority.
This would imply then that something you've said to this point has inspired doubt within you about your own objectivity? Which of your reads do you feel that way about if any?
This is not the case.
If you're solid on your objectivity to this point, why have you made it a priority to step back and account for your objectivity?

Because if I don't, I fear I will stray too far from making sure being as objective as possible is my top priority. [2]

#280

Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying

#281

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Enrique wrote:It's not self-sacrifice if he gets to stay.

I can see a way now that it could be civ-motivated, but I don't think it's likely at all. Time will tell etc.
Does something preclude you from expanding on that civ-motivated possibility? This question sounds condescending, that is not my intent.

I think tomorrow would be a better time to talk about this. I'm not sold one way or another, but whatever happens tonight matters a lot.

I think we've got Diiny nailed today, which is great.

#282

*steps outside of observation mode temporarily*

Diiny wrote:Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying

What are your thoughts on FZ?

#283

ALSO this occurred to me: do cops even get peeks on scum? I don't know how things work here but I've never heard it. He's lying so baaaad. He's so bad.

#284

*steps back in*

#285

a2thezebra wrote:*steps outside of observation mode temporarily*
Diiny wrote:Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying
What are your thoughts on FZ?

Let me have a look.

#286

Diiny wrote:ALSO this occurred to me: do cops even get peeks on scum? I don't know how things work here but I've never heard it. He's lying so baaaad. He's so bad.

This just occurred to you? Not when he first called you scum?

#287

Diiny wrote:Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying

Why would he be lying?

#288

@Epignosis:

I can understand why someone might perceive your move against Floyd to be one that promotes a policy lynch. Actually your stated reason for placing the vote is rather policy-oriented.

Epignosis wrote:Far too many times have I witnessed Mafia coast to endgame by staying out of it. If Floyd is Mafia, then I have no intention of letting him coast. If he's a civilian, then he's not contributing and wins if he's dead anyway (from what I understand).

The highlighted portion is the definition of a lurker policy lynch. Your vote is motivated by his inactivity -- his chronic inactivity (suggests to me that your perspective extends beyond the boundaries of this game, if that's untrue then say so). Inactive players can be anything and lynching them is by nature a roll of the dice. For this reason, a vote for anyone who has actually done something suspicious, however one might define that -- think in Zebra's mindset here, would be a better vote.

Zebra has expressed plenty of suspicions, so his preferred votes shouldn't need elaborating.

#289

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra has expressed plenty of suspicions, so her preferred votes shouldn't need elaborating.

Gack, sorry again Zebra.

#290

motel room wrote:
Diiny wrote:Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying
Why would he be lying?

Does this revelation about peek mechanics mean anything to you:

Spoiler: show

#291

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Zebra has expressed plenty of suspicions, so her preferred votes shouldn't need elaborating.
Gack, sorry again Zebra.

No problem.

#292

motel room wrote:
Diiny wrote:Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying
Why would he be lying?

To get me killed. I don't know how he'll squirm or WIFOM his way out of it. Doing such an obvious bad move could honestly get people to think it was too obvious for him to be scum in the scenario where I flip town tonight.

That or this is some really stupid town gambit and it's not helping in the slightest.

#293

*steps out of observation mode again*

I thought you were having a look at FZ, Diiny.

#294

Tabs. Multiple tabs. More than one tab. Tabs.

#295

Take your time.

#296

Lol, Diiny go read the thread and tell me who is on your team

#297

Hmm... Do baddies know thier team pre BTSC?

#298

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
motel room wrote:
Diiny wrote:Essay over, feeling GOOD. NO STRESS. let's GO, boys. I haven't read the thread. Ask me questions. throw your shit. Because you're not lynching me and wilgy's lying
Why would he be lying?
Does this revelation about peek mechanics mean anything to you:

Spoiler: show
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Look at me, I'm a lurker! What a wild new world!

Anyway, pre-game peeks are randomized and always on townies. Unless MM adapted some new variety of peek which can be chosen for this game, Wilgy is lying about his red peek. I am reading the thread to indicate however that his false red might have been correctly placed, because I have been pretty underwhelmed with the way Diiny has handled it. He's been tame -- patience isn't necessarily a problem, but there's been no bite in his fight. No exasperation, no frustration, no emotion -- not what I would expect from any townie being called a red peek before it's even possible to be a red peek.

The fun thing is: DrWilgy's lie doesn't preclude him from being the cop. Or from being vanilla town. This is a setup that promotes controlled lying from townies and I am struggling to find a realistic mafia angle to explain what he's done. Well that's why he's doing it, JJJ!. Could be, but I don't take that first step of WIFOM without inspiration.

I think Wilgy seems town - cop claim legit regardless atm. If he's town and taking a stab in the dark, well then.

I want to know what Diiny does.

#299

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm... Do baddies know thier team pre BTSC?

From my experience in Pet Sounds, yes.

hi motel room

#300

Perhaps an important tidbit for those attempting to understand Wilgy MD: mafia private communication is only permitted during the night phase, meaning there has been none of it yet. If he's a bad guy who is just goofing around to see what he can get away with, he is doing so without giving his team mates any prior warning. They'd be forced to react live to his behavior just like the townies, and that's a difficult position to put them in.

What say you?