Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[Epignosis]

If you guys don't feel like JJJ has tipped his hand (which I do, for the record) at the very least vote for his teammate FZ. who has made it perfectly crystal clear she is bad as fuck.

1. What civ minded person would participate in the lynching of someone they FULLY ADMIT THEY BELIEVE TO BE A GENUINE CIV

2. What civ minded person says "Sure JJJ *could* be bad, and if he flips bad, don't look at the people that saved him, look at the people that voted to lynch him"

What a joke that is.

I don't agree with you.

FZ is my strongest town read.

Mine too. Simple reason. Any guessers want to have a go at why?

I bought a vacuum cleaner today and I'm pretty sure I just broke it.

Why would you buy a vacuum cleaner if you are changing continents of residence?

I need to clean this house thoroughly before I leave it behind. My old vacuum was broken. I'm bad at vacuums.

Vacuums are supposed to suck.

Because you're compulsively contrarian?

Because FZ. hasn't used any adverbs?

[DharmaHelper]

If you guys don't feel like JJJ has tipped his hand (which I do, for the record) at the very least vote for his teammate FZ. who has made it perfectly crystal clear she is bad as fuck.

1. What civ minded person would participate in the lynching of someone they FULLY ADMIT THEY BELIEVE TO BE A GENUINE CIV

2. What civ minded person says "Sure JJJ *could* be bad, and if he flips bad, don't look at the people that saved him, look at the people that voted to lynch him"

What a joke that is.

I don't agree with you.

FZ is my strongest town read.

Mine too. Simple reason. Any guessers want to have a go at why?

I bought a vacuum cleaner today and I'm pretty sure I just broke it.

Why would you buy a vacuum cleaner if you are changing continents of residence?

I need to clean this house thoroughly before I leave it behind. My old vacuum was broken. I'm bad at vacuums.

Vacuums are supposed to suck.

Why to both of these assertions.

[Dom]

So you'd actively start a bandwagon against someone you read as civ as a civ?
I don't buy it.

I didn't say that. FZ didn't do that. This is irrelevant.

Start a bandwagon was not good word choice.
Actively campaign is better.

In which JJJ shows how FZ absolutely did not start the bandwagon on LoRab:

Spoiler: show

I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

I agree with 50% of this statement. Voting LoRab again.

I don't like this vote. Because you just ignored all discussion and just voted for someone else.

I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched

LoRab?

After Sorsha's vote, maybe her?

I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched

LoRab?

After Sorsha's vote, maybe her?

Just the first in a wave of late drive-bys, I imagine. Doesn't really make me feel anything about Sorsha. I'll go LoRab. Okay really now, sleepy time.

No i didnt. I've discussed things and I've discussed players up for vote right now. I've been suspicious of LoRab and I've stated why.

This is in response to fz

But right now there are 3 people who have votes. Do you have opinion on any of them? are you interested to see any of them lynched? If not, are you interested to save one of them that might be lynched of you keep your vote that way? Discussing before and discussing now, during the money time are two different things.


linki: Fine

The last linki was directed at me. She wanted to lynch Sorsha. I pushed her to LoRab. This case is bullcrap.

Why are you defending FZ?

I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

ok?

[Epignosis]

Why to both of these assertions.

No, no. I want to see if someone can work out why. It's quite simple really.

And vacuums use an air pump, specifically a centrifugal fan, which enables them to suck.

[DharmaHelper]

Why to both of these assertions.

No, no. I want to see if someone can work out why. It's quite simple really.

And vacuums use an air pump, specifically a centrifugal fan, which enables them to suck.

Epi: If the rhubarb pie is green and square October has nine hats then FZ is my strongest town read.

Everyone Else: What.

Epi: Adverbs.

[Black Rock]

JJJ is starting to win me over. I'm getting worried that stubborn civs are going to lynch a civ. On page 78, he clearly sounds like an annoyed civ.

[Black Rock]

Why to both of these assertions.

No, no. I want to see if someone can work out why. It's quite simple really.

And vacuums use an air pump, specifically a centrifugal fan, which enables them to suck.

Epi: If the rhubarb pie is green and square October has nine hats then FZ is my strongest town read.

Everyone Else: What.

Epi: Adverbs.

lol, my favourite post this game.

[DharmaHelper]

Man I wish I signed up for Syndicate mafia so I could spoof Epi so hard.

[Dom]

Anyone else find it weird that JJJ is defending FZ when he's on the lynching block??

[Black Rock]

Not really.

[HamburgerBoy]

Anyone else find it weird that JJJ is defending FZ when he's on the lynching block??

Not especially, regardless of his alignment. Why do you ask?

[Epignosis]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

[Black Rock]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

I'd kick you in the ass if I were your wife.

[Epignosis]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

I'd kick you in the ass if I were your wife.

It's true though.

[Black Rock]

I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

So because I suspect you (weakly) for a reason you don't agree with?

Not really. Just that I'm not really getting a civ Sorsha vibe this game.

Of course, I'm not exactly known as being good at reading you.

Could you expand on this? If it's a gut thing I understand but I am interested in your view point regarding Sorsha.

I have exactly no opinion on her at his point but I am thinking of doing a read on her posts because you brought her up.

I would also like to add I don't like that second line. It's a little non-committal scum like. I might do a read on you as well. I just wish you didn't have so many damn posts.

[Black Rock]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

I'd kick you in the ass if I were your wife.

It's true though.

So was what I said.

[LoRab]

What the absolute fuck?

I've caught up and holy bandwagon, batman!! Seriously, people.

There is more than one person who voted for me who either hasn't mentioned me at all and should know better (Tranq) or who has never played with me before and can't even give me the benefit to answer votes (motel room). A few others who are somewhere in the middle, but that was the most obvious late lynch bandwagon I have ever seen.

And I agree with others that it was a clear attempt to save a teammate. And noting that he didn't act like a civ who had a save to use during the lynch.

*votes JJJ*

Hi lorab. NIce to see you again. (been waiting for this post in my catsup since I read you missed the vote. All I could think is....well...she's in for a surprise..... )


Pretty clear what you think of JJ - what do you think of the rest that voted you? Who's most likely scum? Who's most likely mislead civ?

Most suspish: JJJ (though not for voting me...mainly because of the bandwagon against me which looked like it was to save him), motel room, Tranq....Golden sort of started the bandwagon, so that concerns me and bumps him up. Although maybe llama, too, for being the next to vote going by the first follower theory.

The others I either have no idea on at the moment or am middle of the road about.

Yeah I didn't think I was allowed to outright tell people I'm immune to lynches. Otherwise I probably would have.

If you would have outright told people, then why wouldn't you have subtly hinted?

Question to Syndicaters: is it normal for a seemer role to change both alignment and role? E.g. could someone be out there with a "JaggedJimmyJay. Towniest town. Immune to a single death of any kind" write-up?

I'm going to switch to Tranq temporarily until I sort things out and know where to go next. If JJJ is lying, it will come to bite him eventually. If there are multiple anti-town factions out there, no matter his alignment he should eventually come under fire. I think staying on him would be a waste of a lynch.

To me, what makes him suspicious is not that he had a save but that he had teammates who could bandwagon for him, so that he could avoid using the save. And why would it be a waste of a lynch?

Also, a seemer is usually required to declare a target at a specific time, right? That way, if anyone knocks off Jimmy on a random night, there will be a higher chance the flip was genuine.

When I was the first seemer, I could pick my role when I needed to pick my role, if I recall. So, when I was lynched, I got to choose my role. I believe that I could have chosen what role to appear if I had been checked, but that never happened. LC can correct me if I'm wrong. I've also seen the role work with various tweaks and variations over the years--I'm not sure there's a standard of how a seemer works.

Wait, what if LoRab is a seemer, because of all the "seem" wording Epig picked up on?

Why would I hint at being a baddie role? That doesn't even make sense. Really, it's just a word I use a lot.

I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I don't have BTSC with Dom. We are not on a baddie team together. If he is civ, then we are on the same team.

I will say that suspish is a word that was used a lot on LP and TP, which is where Dom learned to mafia. So it doesn't strike me as odd language from Dom. He also could have picked it up from me during our BTSC time in the last game.

All that said, it's not a word I'd expect to hear from Llama...so...an interesting note to keep in mind.

[DharmaHelper]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

[DharmaHelper]

Also, "a alone?"

[Black Rock]

Just quickly read Sorsha and I don't see anything suspicious in her posts.

I thought there would be something that might stick out since Golden said he wouldn't mind seeing her lynch but...

[Black Rock]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

I think his opinion is valid. All though I can think of one instance where she did have BTSC and quit. So it's not fool proof.

[DharmaHelper]

"a alone"?
"All though"?

Come on guys.

[DharmaHelper]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

I think his opinion is valid. All though I can think of one instance where she did have BTSC and quit. So it's not fool proof.

It is a fine opinion. I would just prefer something remotely tangible or thread related.

[Black Rock]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

I think his opinion is valid. All though I can think of one instance where she did have BTSC and quit. So it's not fool proof.

It is a fine opinion. I would just prefer something remotely tangible or thread related.

Why?

[DharmaHelper]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

I think his opinion is valid. All though I can think of one instance where she did have BTSC and quit. So it's not fool proof.

It is a fine opinion. I would just prefer something remotely tangible or thread related.

Why?

Because basing a person's guilt or innocence on another persons willingness to talk outside of the thread about laundry is almost as dumb as me having to type this out.

[Black Rock]

That's where you and me disagree. I think a lot of useful information can be had by reading the players and knowing the players. I also like to read the hosts. It's useful, not dumb.

[Boomslang]

I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I... kind of like this theory. It's just crazy enough to make sense, and I know I often find myself using the language of the group I'm talking with. Does this necessarily make him bad, though? I'm not pinged super hard either way. On the civ end, I like his pressure on Tranq and the way he's been skeptical of Mac throughout the game. On the mafia end, I don't like the way he's expressed support for off-wagon candidates and then circled back to the main wagon for all of the lynches thus far; feels just a touch too blendy.

GTH, I guess I'd say bad. The connection of "suspish" with Lorab, combined with his consistent but low levels of aggro toward her, could make the case for mafia teammates.

[Dom]

I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I... kind of like this theory. It's just crazy enough to make sense, and I know I often find myself using the language of the group I'm talking with. Does this necessarily make him bad, though? I'm not pinged super hard either way. On the civ end, I like his pressure on Tranq and the way he's been skeptical of Mac throughout the game. On the mafia end, I don't like the way he's expressed support for off-wagon candidates and then circled back to the main wagon for all of the lynches thus far; feels just a touch too blendy.

GTH, I guess I'd say bad. The connection of "suspish" with Lorab, combined with his consistent but low levels of aggro toward her, could make the case for mafia teammates.

I think LoRab put the context quite nicely, regardless of alignment.

[Black Rock]

Once, every 3 months LC goes to work, comes home, and then goes to the MTG pre-release. Giving me the whole night all by myself with the computer. What happens? Every one goes to bed.

I guess I could read Golden or watch some TV.

Linki: Dom's still here... I could read him.

[DharmaHelper]

Dat Jace Hype tho.

[Black Rock]

I did a search of Dom's entire post and have found only a dozen of posts in which the word suspish appears. He himself has used it only once before, in Star Wars.

I now believe Dom is in team with someone who is inadvertedly influencing his word use during their private chatter.

Players who so far who used this word in this game are llama and LoRab.

I... kind of like this theory. It's just crazy enough to make sense, and I know I often find myself using the language of the group I'm talking with. Does this necessarily make him bad, though? I'm not pinged super hard either way. On the civ end, I like his pressure on Tranq and the way he's been skeptical of Mac throughout the game. On the mafia end, I don't like the way he's expressed support for off-wagon candidates and then circled back to the main wagon for all of the lynches thus far; feels just a touch too blendy.

GTH, I guess I'd say bad. The connection of "suspish" with Lorab, combined with his consistent but low levels of aggro toward her, could make the case for mafia teammates.

Or I could comment on this.

It sounded like a nice loaded thought. Then I shook my head and said "BR Suspish is far too common for this to be a thing" and moved on.

[Black Rock]

Dat Jace Hype tho.

There is always Jace hype.

[Golden]

Well you're all losers.

FZ. is not Mafia because she replaced Elohcin.

Elohcin loves BTSC. She wouldn't quit if she had it. She'd be in there talking about...kids and bedspreads or some shit.

But the fact is she's out.

FZ. is a alone.

You're welcome.

Ah yes, FZ is good because Elohcin is your wife.

Hang on a tick, did anyone else get deja vu just now?

Yes, but déjà vu to epi being correct in the past.

[Golden]

That's where you and me disagree. I think a lot of useful information can be had by reading the players and knowing the players. I also like to read the hosts. It's useful, not dumb.

I concur with this sentiment. It's a part of meta. And I agree hosts have hosting meta too. It's a useful tool to solve the game.

[DharmaHelper]

Guess I'm just being grumpy.

[Golden]

Golden, why do you feel so strongly about JJJ?

Two things

1) his emotive response scans with my experience of civ jay who doesn't feel he has proper time to defend himself. Without the time and ability to defend himself as he would like, he gets frustrated at the suspicion. I haven't seen baddie jay much at all, but I remember the mafia champs final he seemed to handle suspicion much more calmly.

2) I still don't see why he would have moved the lynch away from llama yesterday, if bad. He drew attention to himself while leading the lynch by making a case on boomslang, when he could have been less loud and stuck with an existing suspicion with llama. Sure, jay survived, but still...

3) perhaps I don't understand the case on jay, but I haven't seen anything particularly compelling about the case on him.

I could well be wrong, if so mea culpa. I just don't think I am.

[Black Rock]

That's where you and me disagree. I think a lot of useful information can be had by reading the players and knowing the players. I also like to read the hosts. It's useful, not dumb.

I concur with this sentiment. It's a part of meta. And I agree hosts have hosting meta too. It's a useful tool to solve the game.

Thank you

[Black Rock]

Golden, why do you feel so strongly about JJJ?

Two things

1) his emotive response scans with my experience of civ jay who doesn't feel he has proper time to defend himself. Without the time and ability to defend himself as he would like, he gets frustrated at the suspicion. I haven't seen baddie jay much at all, but I remember the mafia champs final he seemed to handle suspicion much more calmly.

2) I still don't see why he would have moved the lynch away from llama yesterday, if bad. He drew attention to himself while leading the lynch by making a case on boomslang, when he could have been less loud and stuck with an existing suspicion with llama. Sure, jay survived, but still...

3) perhaps I don't understand the case on jay, but I haven't seen anything particularly compelling about the case on him.

I could well be wrong, if so mea culpa. I just don't think I am.

Two things?

I was more sure about JJJ before then I am now.

[Golden]

I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

So because I suspect you (weakly) for a reason you don't agree with?

Not really. Just that I'm not really getting a civ Sorsha vibe this game.

Of course, I'm not exactly known as being good at reading you.

Could you expand on this? If it's a gut thing I understand but I am interested in your view point regarding Sorsha.

I have exactly no opinion on her at his point but I am thinking of doing a read on her posts because you brought her up.

I would also like to add I don't like that second line. It's a little non-committal scum like. I might do a read on you as well. I just wish you didn't have so many damn posts.

Not really sorry because it's so gut based and while away I can't go back and read world reborn to compare or anything. I guess it's similar to why I don't think I can put into words why I trust you beyond saying this is the civ br I remember.

Linki it turned into three lol, the third one was less about why I think jay is civ but rather about the case others are making but it is true.

[Golden]

That's about all I have time for today. Voting mm. I think he is much quieter than usual, like in dune. But also, when he has contributed, I've found quite a few of those contributions suspect. I'll try to get back before deadline.

[Golden]

Also, I'd still vote lorab. People called her lynch wagon as though jay was getting saved but I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the late jay voters were saving lorab.

[Black Rock]

I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

So because I suspect you (weakly) for a reason you don't agree with?

Not really. Just that I'm not really getting a civ Sorsha vibe this game.

Of course, I'm not exactly known as being good at reading you.

Could you expand on this? If it's a gut thing I understand but I am interested in your view point regarding Sorsha.

I have exactly no opinion on her at his point but I am thinking of doing a read on her posts because you brought her up.

I would also like to add I don't like that second line. It's a little non-committal scum like. I might do a read on you as well. I just wish you didn't have so many damn posts.

Not really sorry because it's so gut based and while away I can't go back and read world reborn to compare or anything. I guess it's similar to why I don't think I can put into words why I trust you beyond saying this is the civ br I remember.

Linki it turned into three lol, the third one was less about why I think jay is civ but rather about the case others are making but it is true.

I'm not one to judge gut based suspicion. I was just wondering if there was more to it. I certainly can accept this.

[Black Rock]

Also, I'd still vote lorab. People called her lynch wagon as though jay was getting saved but I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the late jay voters were saving lorab.

Why did you vote MM over LoRab then?

[Black Rock]

I have put my vote on LoRab. Not to sound like a broken record or anything. I thought I might vote for JJJ but I found some of his more recent posts to be compelling and I am less sure he's a baddie. I work tomorrow before and during the deadline so I want to make sure I have a vote in just in case.

[LoRab]

I have put my vote on LoRab. Not to sound like a broken record or anything. I thought I might vote for JJJ but I found some of his more recent posts to be compelling and I am less sure he's a baddie. I work tomorrow before and during the deadline so I want to make sure I have a vote in just in case.

You continue to be wrong about me.

[Dom]

i voted

[HamburgerBoy]

So did I.

[Black Rock]

I have put my vote on LoRab. Not to sound like a broken record or anything. I thought I might vote for JJJ but I found some of his more recent posts to be compelling and I am less sure he's a baddie. I work tomorrow before and during the deadline so I want to make sure I have a vote in just in case.

You continue to be wrong about me.

Time will tell.

[Black Rock]

So did I.

Doms vote is easy and obvious. Yours is not, did I miss that suspicion?

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't think it's that obvious. He didn't explain his suspicions just now about JJJ defending FZ. His vote on JJJ 3.0 was relatively early and without much explanation either (just a "Then what the hell is this?"). He's been going with bandwagons pretty steadily now.

And for my own reason, in addition to the above, I've been suspicious since I read his day 0 posts, almost predicting that llama would become a suspect starting day 1. In general I just get non-townie vibes from him too.