Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[Matt]

I'm not trying to pick a fight I'm trying to get you to state plainly what you mean and to address a question directly. I don't see what's wrong with that.

Nah. You clearly demonstrated that you're just skimming the thread for your name, otherwise, it's whatevs for you. Why did you ask me to answer you when I had just answered the question towards bea? Answer: You didn't read my post. I don't think civ Sorsha would just be skimming posts for her name. If anyone would like to tell me I'm wrong, okey dokey, but I doubt it.

MacD - Earlier in the game, I had asked you to clarify your thoughts on Lorab and you refused to do so. Good to know.

[MacDougall]

Show me

[Long Con]

[Matt]

Btw I just read the last page of your ISO and apparently you no longer find Lorab suspicious. So you disagree with Epig about Lorab then?

Again with a segue into a question, and a loaded one at that.

You mean you notice the post I actually answered you in? The post I commented on Lorab was the one I replied to you in Matt.

And you literally just said you saw that I am not sure about Lorab anymore so to ask me whether I disagree with Epi and Lorab is straight up trying to create conflict. You are bad and you have earned my vote.

Mac, no, I'm not trying to create conflict. I have reason to believe Epig is a big bad and I wanted your thoughts on him. Which I'm not sure I even got, you pretty much just kept turning it back on me, I see. Just to be clear, though, you no longer suspect Lorab?

You never answered.

Of course, you went from suspecting Lorab to not suspecting Lorab to "not being sure" about Lorab, so I see why it might've been hard for ya.

Linki - Lol @ Mr Fishburne

[Long Con]

On one hand, Macdougall's possible vacillation on whether Lorab was bad or not can be viewed as a teammate who doesn't want to make a hard call either way.

On the other hand, Matt, your questions to Mac in those posts could be viewed as you being Lorab's teammate, knowing she was bad, and setting up Mac for a fall later if he answers wrong about her.

[Dom]

.....so.... like.... what's the argument then????

I'm...replying to your ideas?

Mostly, though, I think we can go back on your idea that Matt is intentionally playing it differently as a baddie, and that the same could be said of you, if one were to suspect you of being yet again bad. So why you go after Matt for that angle?

....I didn't say that.
I said maybe he is trying something new. I said nothing about alignment. And it wasn't my intention. It's an explanation for civ and bad behavior. Do not lie about me.



LC-- did you see my question for you?

[Matt]

On one hand, Macdougall's possible vacillation on whether Lorab was bad or not can be viewed as a teammate who doesn't want to make a hard call either way.

On the other hand, Matt, your questions to Mac in those posts could be viewed as you being Lorab's teammate, knowing she was bad, and setting up Mac for a fall later if he answers wrong about her.

Hmm. I didn't consider that. Derp.

Well, this is all pretty much wifom, but a few things...

a) If bad with Lorab, I wouldn't have been so openly annoyed with people bein' weird about Lorab's twirl. Woulda stayed out of it completely OR jumped on her for it.

b) If correct, I recall someone saying in this game that Lorab typically helps teammates instead of bussing them? Lorab tried to paint me as bad early in the game and even voted for me once or twice, I think.

LC - What do you think about Sorsha? Does a civ Sorsha skim for her name only?

[Dom]

Matt since you're scolding people for not answering you-- wanna answer my query?

[Matt]

Matt since you're scolding people for not answering you-- wanna answer my query?

Sorry dude, I saw your question but forgot about it when answering Sorsha/Mac.

AWR took place after Talking Heads. Why do you ask?

[Dom]

Matt since you're scolding people for not answering you-- wanna answer my query?

Sorry dude, I saw your question but forgot about it when answering Sorsha/Mac.

AWR took place after Talking Heads. Why do you ask?

Then how do you justify yourself "taking a break" from being aggressive because Talking Heads was so exhausting when you were VERY aggressive in AWR.

[Matt]

Matt since you're scolding people for not answering you-- wanna answer my query?

Sorry dude, I saw your question but forgot about it when answering Sorsha/Mac.

AWR took place after Talking Heads. Why do you ask?

Then how do you justify yourself "taking a break" from being aggressive because Talking Heads was so exhausting when you were VERY aggressive in AWR.

No, I think you're remembering it wrong because I was very aggressive...but it was towards you. That was also different, because I very strongly felt like you lied to me in our BTSC.

If you recall, I also commented greatly on Turnip/MM that game. I believed they were bad together (was wrong on that front, though). But even so, I was "quiet" about it. I simply took turns voting one of them, barely saying a word other then "who wants to vote Turnip or MM with me? derp". In retrospect, I should've whined and hollered about it, but again, I was being reserved after Talking Heads.

But yeah, you're right. Towards my endgame, when I received my Hero Quest, and I was getting sussed hard, yes I was very aggressive towards YOU because as I said, I felt strongly that you were lying.

[Long Con]

I'm a bit nullish on Sorsha right now. I don't particularly have a read on her either way, and I can't say with any certainty that skimming for her name is indicative of her alignment.

[Dom]

Thank you both for your answers.


Sorsha, I'm testing LC-- I'm a bit wary of an LC that I intuitively trust.

[Golden]

i like the word nullish.

[Dom]

I'm going to vote Tranq for now. I am suspicious of him and have a busy day ahead of me. I need to sleep. If I am up for lynch-- please please lynch Tranq instead.

[Marmot]

Thank you both for your answers.


Sorsha, I'm testing LC-- I'm a bit wary of an LC that I intuitively trust.

You trust him intuitively and are wary of him at the same time?

What are you, some kind of monster?

[Dom]

I should explain why I'm not voitng for JJJ for now-- I'm waiting for his response to a fwe things.

[Dom]

Thank you both for your answers.


Sorsha, I'm testing LC-- I'm a bit wary of an LC that I intuitively trust.

You trust him intuitively and are wary of him at the same time?

What are you, some kind of monster?

You've never had a gut feeling and been nervous about it?

[Marmot]

Thank you both for your answers.


Sorsha, I'm testing LC-- I'm a bit wary of an LC that I intuitively trust.

You trust him intuitively and are wary of him at the same time?

What are you, some kind of monster?

You've never had a gut feeling and been nervous about it?

I don't think I've ever intuitively trusted or had a good gut feeling about LC to begin with. Even when I'm bad, I think he's bad,

[Long Con]

Thank you both for your answers.


Sorsha, I'm testing LC-- I'm a bit wary of an LC that I intuitively trust.

Cool, did I pass?

I don't think I've ever intuitively trusted or had a good gut feeling about LC to begin with. Even when I'm bad, I think he's bad,

*waits expectantly for sentence to finish*

[Long Con]

DrWilgy, don't you have anything to say? I'm here, refreshing occasionally, but no one is posting and I'm like . I saw you reading up and y u no post?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've been pretty busy this phase and that's likely to continue.

[Ricochet]

I have decided I am now a Tranq supporter btw. I love the tactic of trying to win the game as scum by contributing no effort and throwing silent votes on people. I support the effort and will not be pushing for his lynch anymore.

Whatever, just fark it all.

Next game, I'm playing Tranq style. No farks will be given. You have been warned.

[Ricochet]

b) If correct, I recall someone saying in this game that Lorab typically helps teammates instead of bussing them? Lorab tried to paint me as bad early in the game and even voted for me once or twice, I think.

Think it was LoRab preferring not to be bussed by teammates.

[MacDougall]

Matt show me one example of where ignoring a bullshit case against you was a scum tell and I'll show you equal if not more examples of dead civs who ignored cases.

Also, Jimmy literally told me I was pinging him by responding to an accusation earlier so like, fuck mate.

I see you're still asking questions you don't have any intention of doing anything with the answers of. If you're going to phone in a performance you might as well not pretend you're actually interested in the goings on.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I poked you because I could, Mac. If you're town you're worse than anything RDW does right now. Try harder.

[MacDougall]

I poked you because I could, Mac. If you're town you're worse than anything RDW does right now. Try harder.

I am under strict instructions from the voices inside my head to ensure ties.

[MacDougall]

#tiesaremyoxygen

[FZ.]

Sorry, I can't participate today.

MM, you're still choosing to joke around instead of being helpful. Why? I asked you to talk about suspicions, yet the only response to my post was telling me that just because BR is dead, it doesn't mean you're bad.

Why didn't people answer me àbout their thoughts on Juliets?

[Ricochet]

At this point, if MM isn't a baddie or some indy sonofa, he's doing it wrong.

[Ricochet]

I'm also getting a bit worried that no Death Note roles have been revealed or caught so far. That game had some bad mofos in it. Good lead civvies, too, but it's the bad mofos we should be wary of.

*leaves apples dangling around the room*

[MacDougall]

Sorry, I can't participate today.

MM, you're still choosing to joke around instead of being helpful. Why? I asked you to talk about suspicions, yet the only response to my post was telling me that just because BR is dead, it doesn't mean you're bad.

Why didn't people answer me àbout their thoughts on Juliets?

Juliets is pingety pingy mcping. When I have enough time to do more than post jokes I'll have a dig. Maybe.

[Boomslang]

Juliets keeps switching votes off Tranq, accepts a collection of Brangelina pics as content, and agrees with his positions in night polls. Ok with lynching either of them. Agreed with MacDougall in my frustration that we can't get any momentum going. *votes Tranq* for time being.

Have I mentioned that grad school is a writhing hellscape of time commitments from which there is no possible escape but the sweet release of death and/or graduation?

[Ricochet]

Gotta go hit the gym for the first time in two weeks, so I'll leave you a special announcement in the signature, for now.

[FZ.]

I think Tranq's posts, though few, are far better than Mm's one which have no content whàtsoever.

[FZ.]

This is not a thoght through vote by any means, but I need to go and won't be back until tomorrow, so I'm voting MM. If he's a civ, he's doing a crappy job proving it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Question for any non-Sorsha player who knows her (and LoRab) better than I do:

It's been suggested that LoRab would not be fond of being bussed by her team mates, and Sorsha made a pointed effort to cast suspicion on her constently prior to her demise. Do Sorsha and LoRab have much history playing Mafia together regardless of alignment? Have they played in the same places prior to The Syndicate? With those questions in mind, would you put it past Sorsha to bus LoRab in this game?

[Long Con]

Question for any non-Sorsha player who knows her (and LoRab) better than I do:

It's been suggested that LoRab would not be fond of being bussed by her team mates, and Sorsha made a pointed effort to cast suspicion on her constently prior to her demise. Do Sorsha and LoRab have much history playing Mafia together regardless of alignment? Have they played in the same places prior to The Syndicate? With those questions in mind, would you put it past Sorsha to bus LoRab in this game?

Sorsha and Lorab are old Mafia-mates. I believe that Sorsha would bus Lorab, and I don't have any personal recollection of Lorab being particularly anti-bussing. I don't know if I believe that Sorsha DID bus Lorab, but the idea that Lorab is anti-bussing is not going to factor into my analysis. As far as I'm concerned, Lorab is an experienced player who has the ability to suggest and carry out a great variety of strategies, including agreeing to be bussed when the heat was on since Day 0.

[juliets]

Juliets keeps switching votes off Tranq, accepts a collection of Brangelina pics as content, and agrees with his positions in night polls. Ok with lynching either of them. Agreed with MacDougall in my frustration that we can't get any momentum going. *votes Tranq* for time being.

Have I mentioned that grad school is a writhing hellscape of time commitments from which there is no possible escape but the sweet release of death and/or graduation?

My votes for Tranq were pressure posts and when the pressure didn't work the votes came off. There was also information that made me change my mind and vote someone else.

Also, I thought the Brangelina pictures were a curse - I thought someone suggested that and there was agreement. I may have misunderstood that.

Out of the night posts I have only voted the same option as Tranq ONCE. And that one time was when he logically explained that position 4 was the safest position to vote because we had already lost one baddie who was empowered on position 4. Several people weighed in on this besides me and agreed that his thinking made sense.

[juliets]

I am also going to go ahead and vote for Metalmarsh for the reasons I talked about yesterday. My schedule is in and out today so I'm not sure I will be around at lynch time. If something happens to change my mind I will change my vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Observations/thoughts:

My lynch wagon swelled to 4 votes pretty quickly and it has since halted. A lot of people seem to be sitting on their hands just waiting for the end of the day period when the drive-by votes come pouring in. This suggests to me that the baddie team (and I believe the only baddie team) is aware that my flip will not be civilian-productive and they're hesitating badly on the matter of contributing to that result. To lynch a player who puts as much effort into playing town as I do, even in a game like this where I've been limited in time and energy, is a significant thing and the people responsible for that will have to answer for it.

Long Con has at least taken personal ownership of my case. He is wrong, but wrong happens. I was wrong about llama; his being an independent killer was pure chance and we got lucky. If there's anything about LC's recent content that bothers me, it's that he claimed to find my WIFOM response believable (I don't know why that would have meant anything to him after all the argument we've already engaged in). Still, his vote is not the most troubling on my wagon. That belongs to Metalmarsh, who has voted for me because that's his chosen lifestyle this game. He has no idea why I'm suspicious and never has at any juncture. He's just doing it because he can, and I think he's bad.

DH's vote for me is pretty much a piggy-back of LC's. I've attempted to have a fair discussion with him this phase and he really hasn't given me a chance to do that. He's given single-sentence responses to my earnest attempts to discuss things with him. If anyone on my wagon is taking advantage of the opportunity to mislynch a top contributor given to them by Long Con, it's DharmaHelper. Sorsha's inconsistency on my case is hard to understand but also not necessarily indicative that she's a baddie. If she cared about being consistent then she would be. Townies care less about that than baddies.

So, of my four voters, MM is most suspicious and DH is behind him.

I also note Mac and Matt have placed useless flier votes on people who simply will not be lynched. Matt's vote especially pings me, because he has failed to involve himself in the discussion of my case in any meaningful way -- he's just watched it progress. That's what baddies do when a trainwreck is on the horizon. No need to take part, just let the townies kill each other and hang out on a safe vote. Mac's vote is for Matt, so I dislike it less.

I am not worried about the two Tranq votes. I might have changed my mind about Dom honestly. I'm still thinking about it, but he's not behaving like I'd expect him to behave in this scenario if he was bad.

The people who have engaged this thread this day phase and failed to either place a vote or take a stance are also troubling. They're the ones I'd assert might be waiting to see how this develops so they can decide whether it's safe to join my wagon or safer to stay away from it. juliets comes to mind first. bea is also relevant here, though I suspect her less. The throaway votes might as well count here too, and I will again state that Matt's looks dirty.

motel room also exists, which I had forgotten about. He just replaced out of another game so he's probably busy. Ninja is at least a little suspicious.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

linki: juliets just voted for MM, a vote I find agreeable, and the timing is early enough that I'd be willing to rescind at least that negative remark about her in the above post.

[bea]

I work the day shift today which means the lynch ends just as dinner rush starts. I'm placing my vote on marshy but will try to come back before the poll ends to see if anything else shakes out. I like ricos point about the lack 9f death note roles. Bad mood for sure and marshy was the baddest of them all. His play here feels similar to that game.

[Long Con]

Long Con has at least taken personal ownership of my case. He is wrong, but wrong happens. I was wrong about llama; his being an independent killer was pure chance and we got lucky. If there's anything about LC's recent content that bothers me, it's that he claimed to find my WIFOM response believable (I don't know why that would have meant anything to him after all the argument we've already engaged in).

You know, it's like this: I would rather follow the evidence and the cases I've made and be wrong, than get convinced by you that you're not bad and get fooled and lose. I know that there is almost nothing in the world that a Civvie can say that a baddie cannot, and I really believe that you have enough experience to say the right things to "look Civ" even when you're not. I can do that; I have done that. I've fleeced my way to a baddie win on silver tongue alone, leaving Civvies who trusted me blasted and shamed in my wake. There's a few out there that will never fully trust me, ever again.

That said... I'm tired of owning this case. I was thinking last night, why did the Kubrick card show up when it did? Just at the right time to implicate you, really. HOW did the Kubrick card show up? Barry Allen is dead...

Barry Allen - Flash CIVVIE
Every Night, Barry Allen chooses a character from a 2015 Job or Side Mission. If that character is included in this game, their role will be revealed on the front page.

... and how many characters are there to choose from in ALL the 2015 Jobs and Side Missions? Hundreds? It seems like it would take incredible amounts of luck to make this role anything but Vanilla, but that's beside the point. A role that can use the powers of dead players is somewhat likely to exist, but did that role actually choose Kubrick from hundreds of roles and place it out there at just the right time?

I have already posited the existence of a Trickster in this game. It would be pretty cool to give that Trickster the ability to put a fake role card into the game at some point. How to take advantage of that? How can the Trickster use that power to gain an advantage? Maybe implicate someone somehow? Obviously this has gone far down the road to Supposition City, but the timing of the Kubrick reveal, the fact that Barry is dead, creates some questions that ought to have answers discussed.

Let's do this Jimmy. My oldest suspicion is Boomslang, and though I'm barely feeling it anymore, I don't let go of that kind of thing easily. Draconus is my biggest other suspicion. And I want to kill the players that are coasting through nonsense and lurking. Metalmarsh, Macdougall, Tranq... who else is playing the "unhelpful brand of Mafia" card?

*votes Metalmarsh89*

Also, why do you think there's just one baddie team?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also, why do you think there's just one baddie team?

We had one town killing role and two independent killing roles. While all or some of them existed, there were consistently multiple night kills. With them all gone, there's suddenly just one night kill. I think that's essentially all that needs to be said. It's possible there are two teams that kill on alternating nights -- y'all on The Syndicate handle multiple mafia teams differently from what I'm accustomed to so I couldn't say with much conviction. I don't know if there's a reason to assume that's happening though. Heck, two independent killers and one baddie team is already quite a handful for any civilian faction. Anything more is a big challenge. I don't know how the hosts would balance that.

[Marmot]

Sorry, I can't participate today.

MM, you're still choosing to joke around instead of being helpful. Why? I asked you to talk about suspicions, yet the only response to my post was telling me that just because BR is dead, it doesn't mean you're bad.

Why didn't people answer me àbout their thoughts on Juliets?

Believe it or not, I was serious.

[Marmot]

Oh well, have a fun game everyone.

[Matt]

I also note Mac and Matt have placed useless flier votes on people who simply will not be lynched. Matt's vote especially pings me, because he has failed to involve himself in the discussion of my case in any meaningful way -- he's just watched it progress. That's what baddies do when a trainwreck is on the horizon. No need to take part, just let the townies kill each other and hang out on a safe vote. Mac's vote is for Matt, so I dislike it less.

3J - You are a serious bullshitter. My vote for Sorsha came directly after your vote for MM (jj vote for MM - 11th vote, Matt vote for Sorsha - 12th vote), and at the time, both had one vote a piece. So how can you say that my vote for Sorsha is "useless". I brought up a case on Sorsha, two separate cases actually (one that links her to MM, and one specifically calling her out for skimming for her name, which I don't think a civ Sorsha does).

Let me ask you. Do you think MM is bad? If you don't, then don't vote for him. But DO NOT say "I think MM is bad, but if he turns out good, then BAM, Matt was watching us kill each other." Eff that.

For the record, I am VERY happy with an MM lynch (remember me getting ignored going after MM early on in the game, so then I moved on?). Anyway, I don't work until about an hour before the lynch ends. If at the time, there are no votes on Sorsha still, I would gladly see MM lynched over you, so if I have to switch to him before work, I will.

Seriously, though? My vote is "useless" despite at the time, both MM and Sorsha having one vote a piece? King of Fuck Mountain, indeed.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sorry, I can't participate today.

MM, you're still choosing to joke around instead of being helpful. Why? I asked you to talk about suspicions, yet the only response to my post was telling me that just because BR is dead, it doesn't mean you're bad.

Why didn't people answer me àbout their thoughts on Juliets?

Believe it or not, I was serious.

She asked you to name suspects and your answer did not feature any suspects. Who are your suspects besides me?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also note Mac and Matt have placed useless flier votes on people who simply will not be lynched. Matt's vote especially pings me, because he has failed to involve himself in the discussion of my case in any meaningful way -- he's just watched it progress. That's what baddies do when a trainwreck is on the horizon. No need to take part, just let the townies kill each other and hang out on a safe vote. Mac's vote is for Matt, so I dislike it less.

3J - You are a serious bullshitter. My vote for Sorsha came directly after your vote for MM (jj vote for MM - 11th vote, Matt vote for Sorsha - 12th vote), and at the time, both had one vote a piece. So how can you say that my vote for Sorsha is "useless". I brought up a case on Sorsha, two separate cases actually (one that links her to MM, and one specifically calling her out for skimming for her name, which I don't think a civ Sorsha does).

Let me ask you. Do you think MM is bad? If you don't, then don't vote for him. But DO NOT say "I think MM is bad, but if he turns out good, then BAM, Matt was watching us kill each other." Eff that.

For the record, I am VERY happy with an MM lynch (remember me getting ignored going after MM early on in the game, so then I moved on?). Anyway, I don't work until about an hour before the lynch ends. If at the time, there are no votes on Sorsha still, I would gladly see MM lynched over you, so if I have to switch to him before work, I will.

Seriously, though? My vote is "useless" despite at the time, both MM and Sorsha having one vote a piece? King of Fuck Mountain, indeed.

Calm down.

MM has been named as a key suspect by quite a few people and entering this phase his lynch was more than a decent possibility. Talk of lynching Sorsha has not been nearly as substantive or quantitative.

What do you think of a JaggedJimmyJay lynch independent of a Metalmarsh lynch? What do you think of the notion that I am the revealed Kubrick role?

Separately, if I am a serious bullshitter then why are you offering to spare my life?