Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[Marmot]

Well, nobody dying wasn't what should have happened. I don't think the Mafia will take a breather as well tonight, y'know...

I'm beyond lost on what could have caused this. N7 was a position 3 winner, and Wilgy didn't even vote on that poll. So he couldn't be Kubrick, right? Was it a lynch pardon? If so, was it civilian or baddielian?

Why is my say important? idk I have few more Days of hell at work and then a one week vacation, but overall I wouldn't mind doing something else than Mafia in the upcoming week. somehow, switching to 24h feels ominous to how many chances we've got left.

Also, am I in trouble for having seen what the first poll looked like? (Yeah, I couldn't actually go to sleep, but I did right after). Also, is it fair that DH voted Willow Rosenberg first in that poll and now Marsh Neutrum snatched it?

I dunno. Is there a difference?

[Marmot]

Let the baddies hit the floor.

[Marmot]

Do it!

[Ricochet]

I dunno. Is there a difference?

Between what?

[DharmaHelper]

I also saw what the poll may or may not have been. I know for a fact at least Sorsha and I voted in the deleted poll.. Probably good to run that sucker through a randomizer to be fair.

[S~V~S]

I also saw what the poll may or may not have been. I know for a fact at least Sorsha and I voted in the deleted poll.. Probably good to run that sucker through a randomizer to be fair.

It was changed.

[DharmaHelper]

Guys Sorsha and Wilgy are not teammates, for serious. They're not!

They've just voted together in the last two lynches. That's total coincidence, they're not a team!

GUYS! LISTEN! Their blatant distancing of each other is TOTAL COINCIDENCE! NOT A TEAM GUYS! ("Wow!" and "Darling?" Really?)

SERIOUSLY! Even after their so called "distancing" which I've backed up repeatedly with "quotes and facts", unlike the totally civvie Wilgy who totally doesn't need "quotes or facts" when he's literally SHOWERING in how civ he is, how can you call Sorsha and Dr Wilgy teammates?

"But wait, DH" I hear you say "Didn't Sorsha start Day 8 unsure of Wilgy or MM but ended up voting for Draconus?" Didn't she somehow miss Wilgy's bullshit post and the colorful, picture-filled rebuttal. UTTER COINCIDENCE I SAY!

"BUT HOLD YOUR FUCKING HORSES DH!!!" I hear you bellow from atop the mountain of evidence that ties Sorsha and Wilgy together. Didn't Wilgy respond to Sorsha's "completely legitimate" turn on him with support and rallying, but then also a little bit of that classic DISTANCING

COMPLETE COINCIDENCE I SAY AS I JAM MY FINGERS SO FAR INTO MY EARS I POP MY EARDRUMS.

THEY ARE NOTE TEAMMATES
THEY ARE
TEAMMATES

[DharmaHelper]

Sorsha and Wilgy being teammates can't melt steel beams

DharmaHelper 2016

[Ricochet]

Putting on some 3D glasses for those glorious caps.

[DharmaHelper]

Putting on some 3D glasses for those glorious caps.

Wow! Darling, seriously? I trusted you and you're going to turn on me?

[DharmaHelper]

Me: *Grilling on Wilgy and Sorsha after the Boom flip*
Wilgy: *Innocuous comment that doesn't even implicate Sorsha*
Sorsha: "Wow! Anakin you betrayed the Jedi Order! You were my brother!"
Me: "Mega susp. distancing there Sorsha.
Wilgy "I agree with DH, that was Mega Mean."
Wilgy: *Within the same post immeidately pivots the convo away from Sorsha as a suspect*

NOT TEAMMATES THO

[Ricochet]

Two roles have been revealed

DH and Matt are

The U Mad Bros. - INDEPENDENTS
Each must grill a player for consecutive phases. They win with any faction if the player they grilled is lynched.

---

I'm bored.

[DharmaHelper]

@Matt i want to see Wilgy and Sorsha lynched and see if MM maintains his suspicion on either of them before I can say whether I'd support an MM lynch.

[Ricochet]

Oh wait, so let's tune in to today's X-Files episode.

How did Dr. Wilgys survive the lynch

Hypothesis #1 - He is Kubrick.
Counter-Argument: ... HOW?!

Hypothesis #2 - He is another baddie with a lynch immunity / survival clause.
Counter-Argument: ... HOW?!

Hypothesis #3 - He is another civvie with a lynch immunity / survival clause.
Counter-Argument: ... HOW?!

Hypothesis #4 - Wilgy picked up an immunity on the Night 7 poll.
Counter-Argument: He didn't vote in that poll, so... HOW?!

Hypothesis #5 - Wilgy picked up an immunity in a previous Night poll, to be used later.
Counter-Argument?: ...ok, could be

Hypothesis #6 - Wilgy's teammates have a lynch pardon.
Counter-Argument: kinda OP if you ask me, especially if one team, or even if two teams, with Kubrick on board the team with the lynch pardon

Hypothesis #7 - A civilian has a lynch pardon.
Counter-Argument: whyy civvies whyy

Hypothesis #8 - Another player picked up a lynch pardon as a Night poll gift and used it today.
Counter-Argument?: ...ok, could be

Hypothesis #9 - Vote was manipulated and Draconus was actually in front. Any of numbers 1 to 8 apply to him insteaad.

Hypothesis #10 - Vote was manipulated and Papryco was actually lynched. Nyeh.

Hypothesis #11 - Matt stopped the lynch because if it ain't gonna be MM, it ain't gonna be nobody else.

Hypothesis #12 - Vote was manipulated, lynch was actually tied, but since none of the two are baddies, Hosts decided it wouldn't be fun so called it a no lynch draw.

[Ricochet]

Hypothesis #7.5: MM has a lynch pardon.
Counter-Argument:

[DharmaHelper]

I think 8 or some variation thereof is closest to the truth. Although I can't discount +/- votes.

[Matt]

@Matt i want to see Wilgy and Sorsha lynched and see if MM maintains his suspicion on either of them before I can say whether I'd support an MM lynch.

Hrm.

I know you're going to think I'm teammates with Sorsha still, but I really do think you're off base with her and kinda wish you'd stop. But regardless, I think I'll be voting Wilgy tomorrow. I was more suss of Drac, but since we already had one civvie (3J) who could survive a kill, I'm thinking you're right on Wiggles.

If I die tonight, tho, I really hope MM isn't forgotten. Please do not forget him peeps.

@Rico, lulz at Hypothesis 11

[DharmaHelper]

@Matt i want to see Wilgy and Sorsha lynched and see if MM maintains his suspicion on either of them before I can say whether I'd support an MM lynch.

Hrm.

I know you're going to think I'm teammates with Sorsha still, but I really do think you're off base with her and kinda wish you'd stop. But regardless, I think I'll be voting Wilgy tomorrow. I was more suss of Drac, but since we already had one civvie (3J) who could survive a kill, I'm thinking you're right on Wiggles.

If I die tonight, tho, I really hope MM isn't forgotten. Please do not forget him peeps.

@Rico, lulz at Hypothesis 11

I dunno how you think I'm off base when they literally outed themselves in the thread as being teammates lol.

[Matt]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

[Marmot]

@Matt i want to see Wilgy and Sorsha lynched and see if MM maintains his suspicion on either of them before I can say whether I'd support an MM lynch.

They're my lynch priorities.

Let the baddies hit the........... FLOOR!

[Marmot]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

I can't kill anybody or pardon anybody, or even properlu lynch baddies. Why does no one believe me?

[Matt]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

I can't kill anybody or pardon anybody, or even properlu lynch baddies. Why does no one believe me?

Why does nobody believe Dom?

[Marmot]

I've offered any explanation for Dom's behaviour 4,936 times.

[DrWilgy]

I'll take a hot and spicey number 7. Extra fries plz.

A counter arguement towards voting together DH. I'm at the point where I think I have no choice but to trust Sorsha now DH, and I think Sorsha may be in the same boat as me. I don't know Sorsha's alignment. I'm hoping that it's civ, because if she flips scum, then I'm dead. If I flip it may secure a baddies survival. You've been on me for the past 30 sumptin hours, and I don't think you've bothered to consider or even talk about some of the recent points that I've made either. You've successfully set up a lose-lose situation with the one exception being that we are both civ.

Taking a step back from what comes next. I can see both Drac and Sorsha being bad. I would prefer to lynch Drac, but I'm ok with lynching Sorsha. My fear here is that if Sorsha flips bad, I'll get murked shortly afterwards and we can't afford to waste any more lynches.

I want to know what Sorsha has to say about this.

[juliets]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

I can't kill anybody or pardon anybody, or even properlu lynch baddies. Why does no one believe me?

Because Dom the rolechecker said you were bad.

[Matt]

I've offered any explanation for Dom's behaviour 4,936 times.

And I've countered argued for which you haven't explained. Like, Dom calling you bad twice on day 6 doesn't correlate with your idea that he checked you and got indy.

But...*takes a deep breath*...

Obviously people do believe you because I'm getting nowhere.

Let's get Wiggles!

Linki - Holy crap! Another player other then me just said the magic words! Thank you JC! Thank you!

[DrWilgy]

Hey Matt, I'll lynch Marmot with you as long as it's not me.

-__-

[DrWilgy]

Also, Willow Rosenberg. Whoever made that poll has good humor.

[DrWilgy]

Rico, have your thoughts on me shifted at all? Are there any questions insights or concerns?

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

If it were one thing I could understand maybe I'm misreading or misinterpreting. However, It's a big fuckin' stack of evidence at this point. As an exercise, if you can explain these things to me in a way that doesn't show that Wilgy and Sorsha are teammates, I'd love to hear it:

***As I started this post I quickly realized it became another precise case building post RE: Sorsha, so if you want to address that also, go ahead***

Particularly in the face of these posts:

Wilgy confirmed mafia RIP

Why does this confirm me as mafia DH?

Also... Boomslang why?

M
Because it does. RIP.

Pretty massive fucking coincidence the Boomtrain came out of nowhere to save ya aint it RIP tell your team I said RIP

DH, you realize what you are saying don't you? If the boomtrain is a thing, then it consisted of two players trying to lynch a baddie and survive, Sorsha, and someone who left his vote there for a half day.

Wow... I believed you were civ and tried to help you and now you're going to try to flip this on me?

So... I'm not bad you guys. I believed wilgy was good and I thought mm was telling the truth about being neutral. I still think something weird is up with booms flip, even if I'm wrong about it and that was his role it doesn't make me bad, just wrong about him. I've been wrong about a lot of players this game and none of you civs can say that you haven't been either. We have lynched one baddie, at least I was right about that one

Today I'm not so sure about wilgy or mm.... the way wilgy pounced on the boom vote after me and then turned on me after the lynch I had just tried helping him in makes me feel like trusting him was wrong. If he wanted to save himself he could have just kept his vote on mm. I'll have to go back and see what his reasoning was for switching there.

Now, my problem with these posts in particular is, as I've already explained, the post made by Wilgy in no way implicated Sorsha. It named her among the people that voted for Boomslang, sure, but it did not in any way indicate that Wilgy had negative feelings as to Sorsha's alignment. In context, that first quote is clearly distancing/bussing. If there were a mafia textbook, that would be Figure 1-A under the vocabulary term "Bus" and Figure 1-A under the vocabulary word "Distancing". There is no civ reason to react to THAT post in THAT way. It reads completely contrived.

And the second quote: Sorsha expresses reservations as to Wilgy, but does not at all follow through with any of them. Hollow suspicions this late in the game? Distancing.

When I confronted Sorsha with Wilgy's *obviously fabricated and completely bad* case against me, this was her response.

What about it DH? I remember you bringing up my name earlier in that game, I don't remember for what exactly without checking though.

I don't think you are Draco's teammate... I don't know what you want me to say about that post really. You'll just throw it back in my face and call me bad anyway.

I'm not 100% sure wilgy is good. If I had picked between mm and wilgy yesterday it would have been wilgy but I feel like they are both civ so I went with boom. I had no idea wilgy was going to switch (and whoever else did).

I'm out at dinner now so I don't know if ill be back anytime soon.

Explain to me how that makes sense in a civvie context. Explain to me how:

A civvie would ignore a damning piece of evidence against someone they were accused of being teammates with
A civvie would refuse to offer even any opinion on the case on the grounds of "You'll just call me bad"

And another question: Sorsha claims if she had to pick between MM or Wilgy she would have voted Wilgy, but she feels (or at least according to her) felt Wilgy was civ? So is she or isn't she suspicious of Wilgy? As Rico pointed out, Wilgy was calling for help right as Sorsha placed her vote.

I'm legitimately asking you Matt to explain to me how I may have misinterpreted the distancing, the group voting, the inconsistency in how they do or do not suspect each other.

[DharmaHelper]

I'll take a hot and spicey number 7. Extra fries plz.

A counter arguement towards voting together DH. I'm at the point where I think I have no choice but to trust Sorsha now DH, and I think Sorsha may be in the same boat as me. I don't know Sorsha's alignment. I'm hoping that it's civ, because if she flips scum, then I'm dead. If I flip it may secure a baddies survival. You've been on me for the past 30 sumptin hours, and I don't think you've bothered to consider or even talk about some of the recent points that I've made either. You've successfully set up a lose-lose situation with the one exception being that we are both civ.

Taking a step back from what comes next. I can see both Drac and Sorsha being bad. I would prefer to lynch Drac, but I'm ok with lynching Sorsha. My fear here is that if Sorsha flips bad, I'll get murked shortly afterwards and we can't afford to waste any more lynches.

I want to know what Sorsha has to say about this.

Ay heres the thing though you fucked up and outed yourself and your teammate I have no reason to talk to you or consider what you have to say.

[DrWilgy]

This is bullsuit DH! Those are all Sorsha quotes!!

Linki - Why... Why would a civilian ever do that.

[DharmaHelper]

This is bullsuit DH! Those are all Sorsha quotes!!

Linki - Why... Why would a civilian ever do that.

They're all Sorsha quotes...because I was addressing Matt in regards to why Sorsha is your teammate. You see, you might not realize this given past experience, but when you assert something about someone, you need to produce evidence that pertains to that person.


And why would a civilian refuse to engage with an outed baddie? Because you're an outed baddie and everything you say contrary to that is irrelevant.

[Matt]

DH - I legit can't explain it. I really wish I could. Chalk it up to gut, I suppose?

Wilgy - Um no. We'd probably be the only two who vote Marmot, and if you get lynched and flip bad, no doubt DH will be hollering at me next. Unless you can convince juliets who just uttered the magic words to vote for Marmot, as well as a few other players, then I'm prolly going to vote for you.

[DharmaHelper]

DH - I legit can't explain it. I really wish I could. Chalk it up to gut, I suppose?

Wilgy - Um no. We'd probably be the only two who vote Marmot, and if you get lynched and flip bad, no doubt DH will be hollering at me next. Unless you can convince juliets who just uttered the magic words to vote for Marmot, as well as a few other players, then I'm prolly going to vote for you.

Yooooo you realize his team is now gonna jump on the MM wagon right? Please vote Wilgy first. No compromise.

[DharmaHelper]

https://hercles.files.wordpress.com/201 ... .png?w=640

[DharmaHelper]

Oops. Wrong tag

[Matt]

DH - I legit can't explain it. I really wish I could. Chalk it up to gut, I suppose?

Wilgy - Um no. We'd probably be the only two who vote Marmot, and if you get lynched and flip bad, no doubt DH will be hollering at me next. Unless you can convince juliets who just uttered the magic words to vote for Marmot, as well as a few other players, then I'm prolly going to vote for you.

Yooooo you realize his team is now gonna jump on the MM wagon right? Please vote Wilgy first. No compromise.

If Wilgy is bad and his theoretical team voted Marmot, I'd be psyched. You think there's two teams, right?

Also, ummm by you saying that, it makes me think you are scaring off any possible civs who may consider Marmot. Do you think juliets is on Wilgy's team since she just uttered the magic words?

Linki - Lol

[DharmaHelper]

DH - I legit can't explain it. I really wish I could. Chalk it up to gut, I suppose?

Wilgy - Um no. We'd probably be the only two who vote Marmot, and if you get lynched and flip bad, no doubt DH will be hollering at me next. Unless you can convince juliets who just uttered the magic words to vote for Marmot, as well as a few other players, then I'm prolly going to vote for you.

Yooooo you realize his team is now gonna jump on the MM wagon right? Please vote Wilgy first. No compromise.

If Wilgy is bad and his theoretical team voted Marmot, I'd be psyched. You think there's two teams, right?

Also, ummm by you saying that, it makes me think you are scaring off any possible civs who may consider Marmot. Do you think juliets is on Wilgy's team since she just uttered the magic words?

Linki - Lol

You're literally making a deal with the mafia. I can't believe this.

Matt, I swear to God if you're fucking with me I will be livid lol.

Yes I am scaring people into voting for Wilgy. Want to know why? Because there is a fucking mountain of evidence in the thread that shows he is mafia and that Sorsha is his teammate. And we cannot afford to mislynch at all. We will lose. I do not want to lose. If we spread the vote even by 1 or 2, the mafia will have us by the balls and we lose. If you are trying to dick me on this I will never forget.

[juliets]

Even though I think MM is bad I also think Wilgy is bad and today is the day for Wilgy.

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

I can't kill anybody or pardon anybody, or even properlu lynch baddies. Why does no one believe me?

Because Dom the rolechecker said you were bad.

Also if JC was bad I wouldn't be surprised but she did vote for Wilgy before MM, so unless Wilgy's team knew for certain he'd be OK in this past lynch I think I can trust her not to be on his team at the very least. If there are two mafia teams she's a good candidate for the second one, but that's a bridge we'll cross once we GET OVER THE MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE THAT SHOWS THAT WILGY IS BAD AND THAT SORSHA IS HIS TEAMMATE THEY LITERALLY OUTED EACH OTHER IN THE THREAD IT IS A MIRACLE ANY CIVS WIN ANY GAMES IN THIS SITE LMAO

Linki well there you have it.

[DrWilgy]

If you are civ and really that arrogant, I'm ok with us losing.

I'm looking forward to you deleting your acct DH.

I'm sick of defending myself here's a rainbow list for ya DH, consider it a preffered lynch order:
Mac
Bea
Matt
FZ.
Juliets
DH
MM
Motel
Sorsha
Drac

Linki - There's a difference between compromising and being rational. I can only try so hard to turn this game around for us before I lose my cool. I think I just lost it.

[Matt]

Making a deal with the mafia?

Dude, I've already said I'm voting Wiggles tomorrow. But if MM starts to actually get votes, you bet your ass I'll switch to Marmot.

Linki - And there you go. Even people who think MM are bad don't want to vote for him (juliets, drac). So Wilgy it is.

Linki Linki Linki

[DharmaHelper]

If you are civ and really that arrogant, I'm ok with us losing.

I'm looking forward to you deleting your acct DH.

I'm sick of defending myself here's a rainbow list for ya DH, consider it a preffered lynch order:
Mac
Bea
Matt
FZ.
Juliets
DH
MM
Motel
Sorsha
Drac

Linki - There's a difference between compromising and being rational. I can only try so hard to turn this game around for us before I lose my cool. I think I just lost it.

I don't know what you expected me to do with two mafia who, not even kidding, 100% outed themselves in the thread.

[DharmaHelper]

Making a deal with the mafia?

Dude, I've already said I'm voting Wiggles tomorrow. But if MM starts to actually get votes, you bet your ass I'll switch to Marmot.

Linki - And there you go. Even people who think MM are bad don't want to vote for him (juliets, drac). So Wilgy it is.

Linki Linki Linki

[DrWilgy]

Did I out myself? What was my definitive outing?

[DharmaHelper]

Did I out myself? What was my definitive outing?

When Sorsha flipped on you for an innocuous post that only mention her in passing.
When your reaction to that flip was "Relaxxxxx...."
When the pair of you ping ponged between "painfully obvious distancing" and supporting each other
When you crafted that bullshit post without checking any of your facts.

You are bad. You did that to yourself.

[Marmot]

Yeah I understand. All I can is derp a derp. I think you are misinterpreting things that may look like teammate behavior but really isn't. But again, derp a derp.

MM - If ya all kill me tonight now that I have dropped suss of you (for the temporary time being), I'm gonna be a saaaad panda.

I can't kill anybody or pardon anybody, or even properlu lynch baddies. Why does no one believe me?

Because Dom the rolechecker said you were bad.

That was out of frustration. Was he actually trying to lynch me? No he wasn't. He didn't even vote for me (that I'm aware of).

Let me point you and Matt to Rico's ISO of Dom. Day 6 is the important part. If Dom checked me Night 5, discovered I was bad, and knew he was in danger of being lynched on Day 6 (which he was), don't you think he would have tried a little harder to get me lynched? A baddie?

[Matt]

MM - I just counted. 23 out of 50 of Dom's posts on Day/Night 6 were about you or addressed to you. That's nearly half. I'm not going to count for every other player he mentioned, but I'm sure you beat everyone in which player had the most mentions by Dom that day.

And that's besides the fact that in several in those posts, he plainly called you BAD and/or put you on his suspect list. He even told town to get a refund on you.

I'm really trying to drop this for now, but you keep pushing. Fine.

Explain Dom checking you, getting indy, then calling you bad and telling people to get a refund on you. Explain how that makes sense.

Also, just thought of something...Who's to say that Dom wasn't vote blocked that day, and that's why he didn't vote? If I recall, Dom is like DH in that he pretty strictly follows the rules, so I don't think he's the sort who would've come in at N6 and been like "Yo I was vote blocked sorries".

But yeah. Explain Dom checking you, getting indy, then calling you bad twice, putting you on his suspect list twice, and telling town to get a refund on you. It doesn't mingle. It wasn't "frustration", he clearly called you bad several times.

What he did NOT do was check you, get indy, and then call you bad. Either he didn't check you and just thought you were bad or he did check you and knows you are. There is no "oh he checked me but thought I was indy". No. Impossible. I won't believe that.

[DharmaHelper]

MM - I just counted. 23 out of 50 of Dom's posts on Day/Night 6 were about you or addressed to you. That's nearly half. I'm not going to count for every other player he mentioned, but I'm sure you beat everyone in which player had the most mentions by Dom that day.

And that's besides the fact that in several in those posts, he plainly called you BAD and/or put you on his suspect list. He even told town to get a refund on you.

I'm really trying to drop this for now, but you keep pushing. Fine.

Explain Dom checking you, getting indy, then calling you bad and telling people to get a refund on you. Explain how that makes sense.

Also, just thought of something...Who's to say that Dom wasn't vote blocked that day, and that's why he didn't vote? If I recall, Dom is like DH in that he pretty strictly follows the rules, so I don't think he's the sort who would've come in at N6 and been like "Yo I was vote blocked sorries".

But yeah. Explain Dom checking you, getting indy, then calling you bad twice, putting you on his suspect list twice, and telling town to get a refund on you. It doesn't mingle. It wasn't "frustration", he clearly called you bad several times.

What he did NOT do was check you, get indy, and then call you bad. Either he didn't check you and just thought you were bad or he did check you and knows you are. There is no "oh he checked me but thought I was indy". No. Impossible. I won't believe that.

No compromise