Day 12 ~ 2015 Game of Champions

[Turnip Head]

Hosts: can a baddie send in the kill and also perform its usual ability, during a Night phase?

Yes.

[Matt]

MM, do you have a really goo reason to trust Matt?

Yes, because reasons.

If he's bad, he would have been a fool to try to nightkill you or myself last night, which is why the kill choice points to him.



But this silencing bizness Matt is talking about, I don't understand. He says I should, but I don't.

Let's go through this by steps...

1) Do you remember what I did last night?

2) How is it possible Sorsha is silenced?

3) The only way it's possible, is if bea, using her position 4 power of redirect, redirected me off of a certain someone.

I'm not really understanding how you're having trouble with this.

[Marmot]

Another point against Sorsha.

I said this at 11:18 PM last night. Sorsha had already posted in other places hours before (during Day 12), so she would have known she was silenced. However, she didn't spam other threads until 30 minutes after I posted the above link. If she is silenced, she would have known earlier, and I think it looks bad that she did it in a reactionary manner after I noticed that she wasn't posting. In other words, she did it because I noticed.

[Ricochet]

DAY 7

Wilgy... banter about Mac; then strongcivreads him (and bea); plans to vote Draco or DH, based off LC's list; wary of MM; rebuttal against DH; nitpicks Dom's role; banter with MM voting him; vexed at being called a non-contributor; GTHs: motel bad, Mac civ, Matt-Sorsha-FZ all civ; wants to push a Boom lynch (talks with Mac, MM about it, later bea, and of course Sorsha)
[NIGHT 7] rebuttals, turns on Sorsha; calls Sorsha and Matt teamies; suddenly wonders what FZ is up to
motel... checks in, hardly manages to ketch-up, votes MM
Mac... votes MM... aw hell he was insanified... skip! roots for Boomslang lynch though or MM or, suddenly, FZ; GTHs: Wilgy not bad, Matt bad, Sorsha good, motel Willow Rosenberg; keeps telling the thread not to vote Wilgy

----

FZ... ugh, question cursed... wants to look at low posters (including Sorsha), wary of trusting MM; wants DH to talk more; questions Drac and Boomslang; wary of either Mac or LC; votes Wilgyson
Matt... begins MM crusade based on Dom's legacy; questions Mac voting Boomslang; lobby for MM lynch and Boom save
Sorsha... feels ok about Wilgy and juliets (but inserts second-guessing comment), shrugs at motel; plans to look at Dom's legacy, comes back with weaksauce comments; doesn't want to vote Wilgy or MM, votes Boom at Wilgy's request
[NIGHT 7] spooked by Wilgy's comment, considers him "turning on her"; banter denies allegations of mafia, claiming she'll have the last laugh come endgame

====

Wilgy's GTH is adorable. Buss on motel, good on Macky; also, pretty inspired to have placed all three candidates right now as civ, whether intentionally so or involuntarily. Mac's GTH is even more merciful with his teamies: Wilgy is good, motel is whatevs. This gives me the vibe of team's spirit in which bussing, creating mindtricks and such weren't the main MO.

Ok, so we all know this was Sorsha's worst Day, in terms of activity and her vote. What else can we draw out? The FZ-Mac antagonism is so recurrent, it makes me doubt it could have been cooked for so long, at such regular intervals. Wilgy was worth saving, so Sorsha could earn the point for doing such an endeavour. FZ. sinking him further or Matt being cold on the issue, for the sake of preserving his integrity, doesn't strike me as equally plausible, except for intense tinfoil/mindgames.

[Marmot]

MM, do you have a really goo reason to trust Matt?

Yes, because reasons.

If he's bad, he would have been a fool to try to nightkill you or myself last night, which is why the kill choice points to him.



But this silencing bizness Matt is talking about, I don't understand. He says I should, but I don't.

Let's go through this by steps...

1) Do you remember what I did last night?

2) How is it possible Sorsha is silenced?

3) The only way it's possible, is if bea, using her position 4 power of redirect, redirected me off of a certain someone.

I'm not really understanding how you're having trouble with this.

1) Yes

2) I don't think it's possible, unless she self-targeted or somethign

3) I'm still not sure I follow. I don't believe you have the ability to silence, nor FZ, so no matter how you look at it, I'm not sure this is related.

[Ricochet]

Oh, and I believe that if is Sorsha is civ and actually silenced, she would have placed her vote on her top suspect already. She has not done that yet.

Being silenced is one thing. Being silenced and vote-blocked at this stage would be fucked up.

And highly unlikely, because Draconus is dead.

If you mean as a night poll effect, then yes. Gross.

[FZ.]

Oh, and I believe that if is Sorsha is civ and actually silenced, she would have placed her vote on her top suspect already. She has not done that yet.

Being silenced is one thing. Being silenced and vote-blocked at this stage would be fucked up.

And highly unlikely, because Draconus is dead.

If you mean as a night poll effect, then yes. Gross.

I have reason to believe her vote is not helpful for her. I might have finally done something good.

[Matt]

MM, do you have a really goo reason to trust Matt?

Yes, because reasons.

If he's bad, he would have been a fool to try to nightkill you or myself last night, which is why the kill choice points to him.



But this silencing bizness Matt is talking about, I don't understand. He says I should, but I don't.

Let's go through this by steps...

1) Do you remember what I did last night?

2) How is it possible Sorsha is silenced?

3) The only way it's possible, is if bea, using her position 4 power of redirect, redirected me off of a certain someone.

I'm not really understanding how you're having trouble with this.

1) Yes

2) I don't think it's possible, unless she self-targeted or somethign

3) I'm still not sure I follow. I don't believe you have the ability to silence, nor FZ, so no matter how you look at it, I'm not sure this is related.

If there is a silencer, I don't know who it is. All I'm saying, is that if bea REDIRECTED me off of someone last night, based on what I can do, then and only then is it possible Sorsha was even silenced in the first place. That's all I'm trying to say.

If bea did redirect me last night, then I DO think it's possible Sorsha was silenced. You really don't follow me here?

Regardless, I think it's probable Sorsha is faking, based on everything I've been reading for the last hour.

And Rico, I'm sorry dude, but I figure I should use whatever knowledge I have to try and interpret this game, even if it is other forums business. If it was such a problem, I'd think SVS/Turnip would've warned me when I posted the Dom quote about civ rolecheckers the other day.

[Ricochet]

Oh, and I believe that if is Sorsha is civ and actually silenced, she would have placed her vote on her top suspect already. She has not done that yet.

Being silenced is one thing. Being silenced and vote-blocked at this stage would be fucked up.

And highly unlikely, because Draconus is dead.

If you mean as a night poll effect, then yes. Gross.

I have reason to believe her vote is not helpful for her. I might have finally done something good.

Cheeky cheeky.

[Ricochet]

Then again, what's stopping us from profiling you as Napoleon Foy, FZ., despite the audacity of there being two vote wipers in the same team?

[FZ.]

Then again, what's stopping us from profiling you as Napoleon Foy, FZ., despite the audacity of there being two vote wipers in the same team?

I went to the first page to check who this Napoleon person is and I don't see that role

[FZ.]

In any case, do you really think there would be two who have the same power? isn't that a little lame?

[Ricochet]

Then again, what's stopping us from profiling you as Napoleon Foy, FZ., despite the audacity of there being two vote wipers in the same team?

I went to the first page to check who this Napoleon person is and I don't see that role

It's an extrapolation from all the baddie/indy roles in Llama's eligible games, a list I already posted Even Matt mentioned it.

But yeah, you're clearly not paying attention to anything I'm writing. Oh well.

In any case, do you really think there would be two who have the same power? isn't that a little lame?

True enough.

[FZ.]

Sorry Rico, I just can't handle those endless lists. I saw there was a list of baddie roles. I read the first line of that post. I thought, what could I do with that? I need to focus on getting to the important stuff.

[Ricochet]

Well, I hope we've done the right thing. There doesn't seem to be a lifeline for Sorsha, either way. This silence is such a unique sight, it makes no sense as a night power. Her ISO, up to presumably bussing motel and inevitably bussing Mac too, tends to speak in terms of team-saving movement opportunities. If baddie, she probably also got the memo that her vote is worth poopers toDay and resorted to faking a silent stance and letting the other candidates rip each other apart as last measure.

linki:



Your win either way. If we win, you can claim nothing except active talk and deciphering counted. If you win and we don't, you get to ha ha.

[Matt]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

[FZ.]

Rico, there will be no Haha on my part, because I'm not bad. If Matt isn't fooling us and MM is who he claims to be, then that's the only remaining option.

[FZ.]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

[Marmot]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

An alignment switch? Oh that's right, you mean like a seemer.



Fuck.

[Matt]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

Zebra's role had some kind of trickery with faking alignments. I'm asking MM if he thinks Team Llama had something similar.

[FZ.]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

Zebra's role had some kind of trickery with faking alignments. I'm asking MM if he thinks Team Llama had something similar.

Which would explain why you think she's good...

[Matt]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

Zebra's role had some kind of trickery with faking alignments. I'm asking MM if he thinks Team Llama had something similar.

Which would explain why you think she's good...

Perhaps. I also happen to believe I know which game her role is from, which would fit with her being on Team Llama, IMO.

Still, though, is it possible two teams could seem players?

[Marmot]

It's an easy way to balance teams out, put similar roles on either team.

I would argue yes. Plus zebra's wasn't exactly a seemer. It could not protect her own team, only impact civs.

[FZ.]

I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

[Ricochet]

MM - I don't think you've answered. Do you think it's possible Team Llama has an alignment switch? The answer to this question is key, IMO, with regards to Sorsha.

What's an alignment switch?

Zebra's role had some kind of trickery with faking alignments. I'm asking MM if he thinks Team Llama had something similar.

Which would explain why you think she's good...

Perhaps. I also happen to believe I know which game her role is from, which would fit with her being on Team Llama, IMO.

Still, though, is it possible two teams could seem players?

Zebra was not a seemer. So there is a window left for a seemer.

If you hint at the role being Llama compatible, then that should settle it. I don't believe it would be in Sorsha's advantage, if bad, to reveal herself as good, but as named after a Llama compatible role. Roger Rabbit turns out to have been the only oddball civrole retconned into mafia, really. Ozy was kinda scummy ( oh you noble eagle ), Jezebel I think as well, the rest were scum in the original games.

[FZ.]

It's an easy way to balance teams out, put similar roles on either team.

I would argue yes. Plus zebra's wasn't exactly a seemer. It could not protect her own team, only impact civs.

We don't even know what Mac's role was. What could he protect from.

[Ricochet]

I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

Idk, I'd endorse for us to keep talking, at least for another 9 replies.

linki: ??? A protector protects a player. As a baddie, he can mostly protect himself or his teammates.

[Marmot]

Then again, what's stopping us from profiling you as Napoleon Foy, FZ., despite the audacity of there being two vote wipers in the same team?

I went to the first page to check who this Napoleon person is and I don't see that role

It's an extrapolation from all the baddie/indy roles in Llama's eligible games, a list I already posted Even Matt mentioned it.

But yeah, you're clearly not paying attention to anything I'm writing. Oh well.

I asked Mac if his role sounded like Boolean Boy yesterday. He did not react at all, so perhaps he had no clue wtf I was talking about, and it's not actually a role.

[Marmot]

It's an easy way to balance teams out, put similar roles on either team.

I would argue yes. Plus zebra's wasn't exactly a seemer. It could not protect her own team, only impact civs.

We don't even know what Mac's role was. What could he protect from.

What? Mac was a role from llama's Brian Eno Mafia, and his ability was a Protector.

As for zebra, I said protect, but I wasn't talking about the protect ability, I was talking about her role ability.

[FZ.]

I'm going to bed. If the game ends tonight, please wait for me for the party And don't change your mind. This is going to be a civvie win. I asked before but no one answered: Did the civvies win a championship game before?


linki: Where I come from, a protector could also protect from night investigation or any other target that could harm you. But if it's a known role then I don't know what I'm talking about

[Marmot]

New single game post record goes to Ricochet. He gets lynched Day 1, but still manages to spew out 1,500 posts.

[FZ.]

Note to self: Next mafia game, start reading the list of roles

[FZ.]

Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

[Matt]

I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

Well, we still have three hours, and tbh, I'm not entirely sold on you being good.

I also think it's possible that wrong information exists, however, consider this...

If I had stumbled onto Sorsha being civvie and she really wasn't, then why did she continue to suss me? Believe me, I've even dropped hints to her in thread that I knew her role, yet she continued to suss me. If she was bad, why wouldn't Sorsha use me as her little civ play toy and buddied me up?

I dunno. I think it's highly convenient that you wanted to analyze everything earlier, and now that we have three votes on Sorsha, it's time to call it quitsies and go home. If there were two vote manips on the Harry Stephen Keeler indy team, why couldn't there be on this game's baddie team?

Linki linki linki

[Marmot]

I'm going to bed. If the game ends tonight, please wait for me for the party And don't change your mind. This is going to be a civvie win. I asked before but no one answered: Did the civvies win a championship game before?


linki: Where I come from, a protector could also protect from night investigation or any other target that could harm you. But if it's a known role then I don't know what I'm talking about

Actually, civilians won every Game of Champions thus far. :P

But I think the last one was controversial because of info shenanigans.

[Marmot]

Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

Are you a member of mafia?

[Ricochet]

New single game post record goes to Ricochet. He gets lynched Day 1, but still manages to spew out 1,500 posts.

First though, I think I have to run down at the farmacy at 11:40pm. I'm out of nose drops.

Also, how do you call an ascending portion of a mountain route, in climbing terms? Like, a real steep, constant ascending route, after which you reach a certain height, plateau or top? The kind I posted in some pictures I took a while ago.

[FZ.]

I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

Well, we still have three hours, and tbh, I'm not entirely sold on you being good.

I also think it's possible that wrong information exists, however, consider this...

If I had stumbled onto Sorsha being civvie and she really wasn't, then why did she continue to suss me? Believe me, I've even dropped hints to her in thread that I knew her role, yet she continued to suss me. If she was bad, why wouldn't Sorsha use me as her little civ play toy and buddied me up?

I dunno. I think it's highly convenient that you wanted to analyze everything earlier, and now that we have three votes on Sorsha, it's time to call it quitsies and go home. If there were two vote manips on the Harry Stephen Keeler indy team, why couldn't there be on this game's baddie team?

Linki linki linki

The last person to suss a person who trusted her was Lorab who sussed HB (I think it was him). That was one of the things that made me suspicious of her. Sorsha kept options open.
I wanted to analyze earlier because I need to sleep. My time zone is not like yours. Every game things happen while I'm asleep and I can't control them. I believe we've finally reached a good place. I'd hate for us to agree like this only for things to change when I go to sleep. Matt, if you're for real, please trust me. I'm not lying or deceiving anyone. The only reason you trust Sorsha, who when skimming Rico's lists I noticed you were pretty suspicious of in earlier stages, is your "evidence". I'm telling you, it has to be wrong. All other thread evidence points to her faking a silence and leaving us to suspect each other.

[DharmaHelper]

I'm going to bed. If the game ends tonight, please wait for me for the party And don't change your mind. This is going to be a civvie win. I asked before but no one answered: Did the civvies win a championship game before?


linki: Where I come from, a protector could also protect from night investigation or any other target that could harm you. But if it's a known role then I don't know what I'm talking about

Actually, civilians won every Game of Champions thus far. :P

But I think the last one was controversial because of info shenanigans.

Scandalous

[Marmot]

I think we're at a point where we're over analysing. I get why you're not willing to let what you know go, Matt, but first, look how many civvies were wrong based on information, and second, it does make sense that if one group has something, the other will have that too. Especially since coming back good is a very important power for baddies.

Sorsha is bad, period. If it's anyone else, I'll bow in the face of genius (sadly, that's not me, LOL)

Well, we still have three hours, and tbh, I'm not entirely sold on you being good.

I also think it's possible that wrong information exists, however, consider this...

If I had stumbled onto Sorsha being civvie and she really wasn't, then why did she continue to suss me? Believe me, I've even dropped hints to her in thread that I knew her role, yet she continued to suss me. If she was bad, why wouldn't Sorsha use me as her little civ play toy and buddied me up?

I dunno. I think it's highly convenient that you wanted to analyze everything earlier, and now that we have three votes on Sorsha, it's time to call it quitsies and go home. If there were two vote manips on the Harry Stephen Keeler indy team, why couldn't there be on this game's baddie team?

Linki linki linki

FZ usually goes to bed around this time, I think.

Linki: Depends. If you're talking about a wide slope that increases, you could call it a slope, or gulley if it's surrounded by walls on both sides. It's a ridge if it is a skinny ascent. It's a face if it's too steep to hike (and must actually be technically climbed). A shoulder is a near-the-peak flat area that leads to a peak, but also drops on all other sides.

I'd have to check the pictures.

[FZ.]

Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

Are you a member of mafia?

No, plain and simple. I can also tell you that my role comes from a game that had no revealed roles from yet. I believe I'm the only one.

[Marmot]

Actually, civilians won every Game of Champions thus far. :P

But I think the last one was controversial because of info shenanigans.

Scandalous

I was lynched Day 1, so not my fault.

Also, I told everyone you were bad before I died, but no one believed me.

[Marmot]

Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

Are you a member of mafia?

No, plain and simple. I can also tell you that my role comes from a game that had no revealed roles from yet. I believe I'm the only one.

Ok, which game?

[Matt]

I keep going back to the day Lorab was lynched.

Despite vote shenanigans, no matter how you cut it, Wilgy changed his vote last second. So did Golden, but Wilgy didn't know that.

3J, Lorab, MM, and FZ were part of the four way tie that day.

3J was civ. Lorab was Noses. Wilgy actually VOTED for MM.

So who does that leave us with?

I'm not saying I'm definitely going to switch back, but you can't ignore Wilgy's switch that day.

[Ricochet]

Is there anything more to discuss before I go to sleep?

Are you a member of mafia?

No, plain and simple. I can also tell you that my role comes from a game that had no revealed roles from yet. I believe I'm the only one.

Again, Frisky Dingy kinda fits.

Either that or Angry Birds?

[FZ.]

So DH is always a baddie in championship games? Noted.

linki: Am I allowed to say this? What I've hinted about what I know has been checked with the hosts. If saying what game your role is from is not breaking the rules, I'll tell you. I don't want the baddies bitching about the civvies winning because of info dumping.


linki: For crying out loud, Matt, I could have switched the vote myself to prevent the tie. I was so freaking pissed that day about the tie, that I didn't even save the person I said I would save and left myself at risk of dying. You can see by my reactions that day that I said I was fed up with the game. Little did I know that all of Mac's crap to tie the lynch was because he was really bad and not just doing it for amusement.


linki: It's not Frisky

[Ricochet]

I keep going back to the day Lorab was lynched.

Despite vote shenanigans, no matter how you cut it, Wilgy changed his vote last second. So did Golden, but Wilgy didn't know that.

3J, Lorab, MM, and FZ were part of the four way tie that day.

3J was civ. Lorab was Noses. Wilgy actually VOTED for MM.

So who does that leave us with?

I'm not saying I'm definitely going to switch back, but you can't ignore Wilgy's switch that day.

Go check my ISO post called "DAY 3.5" and tell me how my walkthrough reads out to you. Including Mac's final vote being to push FZ into the tie. Is that really FZ teamie indicative?

I'm serious. It takes 10 minutes to read and judge. Do it so we can talk properly.

[Marmot]

You're allowed to say your own role and/or what game it comes from, as far as I know.

It's that you're not allowed to discuss nightpoll outcomes, nor are you allowed to reveal anything about players other than yourself.

[Ricochet]

WTF, link to Angry Birds in Hall o' Fame leads to Death and Taxes. Boo! nub MP.

5

[FZ.]

You're allowed to say your own role and/or what game it comes from, as far as I know.

It's that you're not allowed to discuss nightpoll outcomes, nor are you allowed to reveal anything about players other than yourself.

You positive?