DISCLAIMER: This is
somewhat off-topic and it's directed entirely at S~V~S so if you're not up for reading it that's more than okay with me.
S~V~S, we've been talking about two different things. To me it seems like you're under the impression that I don't like you tone-reading me but that's not true, I don't care, I'm not even talking about that. I'm not even talking about your suspicion of me or how I'm reading you, this is practically off-topic discussion which is why I got frustrated at myself that I couldn't convey to you that it was.
I'm trying to say that I don't think it's a fault that you're reading me by tone. I. Don't. Care. That's not even what I'm saying, at all. I disagree (as I have tried to make clear) that tone-reading is somehow a fault of yours because not only do I think it's a valid way of finding baddies, it's my primary method of deciding my reads myself. So that's not what I'm even talking about, but you keep responding to me like that's the issue that I have and it's not even what I'm talking about. I take no issue with you finding snark suspicious or tone suspicious or anything suspicious, I am not talking about that. I don't know how many times in how many different ways I can say this before you stop saying "it's a fault I have" and "it's a failing of mine" when
I don't even fucking agree that it is (see the portions I underlined in our back-and-forth below for evidence of this), and that I think you by all means should continue to do that.
What I
am talking about isn't related to reads or suspicions but it is related to mafia in general which is why I'm not putting it in OT green, since it could effect this game later and it's something I want to try and fix. Let me try and elaborate as intricately as I can possibly can on your response here and some of what I said earlier as well in the hopes that you can get a better idea of what I'm really really really really really really trying to make as crystal clear as possible:
S~V~S wrote:a2thezebra wrote:S~V~S wrote:a2thezebra wrote:S~V~S wrote:Not everyone views it that way; to me it reads like mocking the PERSON. I would have taken it as such had it been me. And although MP & I are wildle different, that is one way we are the same. Some people can man up & grow a sense of humor about themselves, and some cannot. So I tend to view mocking, or making fuin of peoples opinions, as aggression.
It is not a fucking fault for you to view mockery as aggression and to view aggression as bad. If you view the way I've acted in some instances as aggressive and snarky and therefore bad then I have no objection to that whatsoever, I. DON'T. CARE. That's not what I'm talking about. I take absolutely no goddamn issue whatsoever with you suspecting me based on tone, I cannot fucking stress this enough. It's not what I'm even talking about and I have no problem with you doing it.
It's a fault I have.
I understand having a problem with mocking the person, but
just before you said it was mocking the suspicion, and that that wasn't a good look. Which is it? I'm having a very hard time trying to understand where you stand. I'll think that you feel one way and then you'll say something that makes me think otherwise.
I know it's not your fault but it's extremely frustrating. I
'm not sure how much of this you're trying to imply is alignment-indicative, how much of it you're saying is something you take personal not game-related issue with, how much of it you're being sarcastic about, I just don't follow you at all here. Same with the post before this that you made. Like what were you saying by stating that "alarming" is an adverb? Was that meant to be relevant, were you just being funny, and in either case what did I say that you were responding to by saying that? Sorry if I'm being interrogative and rant-y, I'm just agitated that I still can't seem to properly communicate with you in this game just like the last. It's not what I want and
I feel that it's my fault.
We could not communicate in the last becasue you were a baddie trying to kill me, making a mountain out of a molehill, lol.
Even though I was a baddie in that game I genuinely believed everything I said regarding Scotty's slip and I was genuinely VERY frustrated that you weren't responding to so much of what I had to say. Like VERY, VERY frustrated. I honestly thought you were doing it because you were a baddie from the other team it was pissing me off so much.
Well, you were incredibly wrong.
That's not the point. My point is that it would've helped if you had tried to communicate with me instead of ignoring 95% of what I had to say over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and fucking over again in favor of the 5% that you could easily respond to and dismiss. If I'm good then working with me will help me not tunnel you if you're good as well, and if I'm bad then working with me will make it harder for me to mislynch you. I just can't fathom why in the last game and in this one you continually seem to be deliberately (and that's where my frustration primarily comes from, because like I've said I'm not sure if you choose to pretend that so much of what I put in the effort to articulate multiple times in multiple ways just doesn't exist or if I'm just not being clear enough with it) pretending like so much of what I've tried to put so much effort into articulating over and over again to the point where I lose my ability to articulate altogether like right now doesn't exist. And let me make clear, I don't think you're doing this deliberately it just seems like it, and that's why I've gotten so frustrated. Like so far in your response here you've either pretended that all of this content I gave you to work with doesn't exist or you've missed it or you've ignored it or I haven't made it clear enough to you I don't fucking know goddammit:
Do you think I was mocking the person or mocking the suspicion? Or both?
Regardless, are you trying to say it is alignment-indicative or that you take personal issue with it? Or both? Or neither?
Where do you stand with me? I'm just mad at how much we've gone back and forth yet I don't even have the slightest idea what you actually think.
What did I say that caused you to respond by saying that "alarming" is an adverb? What was your point in saying that?
Furthermore, how much of your responses have been sarcastic? A lot of it to me reads like subtle condescension.
I just don't fucking know what you're trying to say, at all, anywhere. And it's clear to me that you don't know what I'm trying to say either.
And I am not saying it is alignment indicative. I am saying I wish you would stop mocking MP or anyone for suspecting you, or questioning you. You say something, or a number of things, that make total sense to me and I feel all warm and fuzzy, then you say something like "just sayin" or mock someones suspicions of you by putting words in quotes, anf the warm fuzzy just evaporates. Your content is not baddie to me; it's the sarco-trimmings that keep pulling me back in.
I find this so goddamn fucking confusing because you keep responding to me like you're suspicious of me for my "mockery" and you keep saying it's a fault of yours for suspecting people based on tone (which I don't even fucking agree with) but here you say that it's not alignment-indicative, and you seem to be saying that it's a personal issue you have. So when I respond below not trying to defend my alignment (because, again, reminder, you said that you are not saying it was alignment-indicative so my response wasn't defending my alignment it was only defending what I felt was a personal accusation) you then go on to respond as if you were attacking my alignment all along and that my defense wasn't a defense of my integrity but of my alignment. WHICH IS IT??????????????? Because I don't care if you suspect me based on tone and what you think is mockery, but if it's a personal issue you have and you don't like me mocking people in general, then of course I'm going to defend against that because I don't think I'm doing it, it has no bearing on my alignment, and it's a personal accusation.
See this is what I'm talking about though. I'm not mocking anyone for suspecting me or questioning me nor have I done that the entire game, and it seriously bothers me that you still think that I have been when I have clarified so many times that I am not.
When I said "just sayin" that was a point I was making because I felt that MP was trying to blame me entirely for misunderstanding me when I don't see why anyone has to be blamed for that. It wasn't mockery and it wasn't trying to put the blame on him. I clarified and explained this, to you.
When I put words in quotes (you're referring to "explosive" I take it) that wasn't mocking MP, that was me expressing that I (still) disagree with the idea that using the word "alarming" can be considered explosive language on its own. Just because I expressed that opinion humorously doesn't mean that I was mocking MP. Again, I clarified and explained this, to you.
Yet you still say that it's mockery here, when it's not. You still say that it's a comment about the person I'm responding to rather than a point that they made, when it's not. You still say that it's because they suspect me or question me, when it's not. And I find that infuriating because I'm not sure (just as with the previous game) if you're ignoring me clarify things to you over and over and over and over again deliberately, or if I'm just not conveying them to you properly enough. In the last game you never acknowledged that I suspected you for reasons beside what I thought was a slip from Scotty even though I made it clear to you a gajillion times. You would even quote me directly, address the part regarding the slip, and snip out the part of each and every damn quote where I expressed suspicion of you for things beside the slip. I would make a large post with lots of points and you would only respond to a single point, about what? The slip, of course. And you kept doing this every time you would respond over and over again and it was driving me nuts. Now you're doing it again only instead of it being about me accusing you of things, you're doing it about me mocking people, which I take much greater offense to so I'm even more infuriated by it.
I am sorry you see it this way;I am only being honest. I have been told I am over sensitive. But I am totally a tone player and I read people based on emotion. And this is how I am reading you,and it comes across as snarky. And snark, o me , comes across as negative. I am not trying to offend you or anything of that nature. But to em mocking people tends to be a baddie tactic to marginalize peoples opinions. So more than one instance of snark or mocking reads as that to me. I just read it negatively.
See based on this response here I don't see how you could have read any of all that shit I took the time to type out and that's so infuriating. Here's my issues with this part of your response and it's why I flipped out:
What do you mean "see it this way?" What am I seeing and in what way am I seeing it?
I believe that you're being honest, which makes it all the more frustrating that we're communicating so, so poorly. If I felt you were lying or being deceitful with your responses then I wouldn't have become an emotional wreck at all. It's because I feel that you're genuine yet you're still accidentally misrepresenting SO DAMN MUCH in both this game in the last (and my alignment in the last game is irrelevant and if you read the part you're responding to here you should see why, I just don't get it) that I am so stressed out. I don't even stress at people not reading my posts anymore but when you read my posts and respond to a post I didn't make, a post that doesn't exist, that's when I get stressed. Especially when I put so much effort and time into trying to work with you so that you won't do that. So I get stressed because since other people have been misunderstanding me as well and MP has observed that me being misunderstood is a regular thing here, I'm left to conclude that I'm just fucking incapable of conveying to you what I'm trying to say. That's why I'm off the rails.
I don't think you're over-sensitive. Not only did I not say that you were, I outright said that I don't think you tone-reading people was a fault even when you were saying that yourself. This is what I'm talking about when I say that it feels like you're responding to an imaginary post, because the points you're making here aren't just irrelevant to what I'm saying, they're points that I disagree with in your own favor.
I am also a tone player and read primarily based off emotion. Most of my back-and-forths aren't to express pings but to fish for more content that I can tone read. I have no issue with you doing this, I cannot say this enough times apparently. My issue is with not being able to understand what you're saying and with you not being able to understand what I'm saying. And I think it's my fault and have said so multiple times but you're still acting like I think that it's yours. Please please please stop thinking that for the love of fuck.
I understand your thought process of snark coming across as negative and I tend to agree with you. It's not a default ping for me like it seems to be for you but that's fine. My issue, again, for who knows how many times now, is that I don't know what you're saying. Here you clearly say that mockery tends to be a baddie tactic indicating that you suspect me for what you believe to be mockery on my part, but earlier in the same post you say that you're not saying it's alignment-indicative. So I can't read your posts because I'll read something and come to a conclusion about what you mean and then read something else in the same post and I'll come to a conclusion that directly contradicts the conclusion I came to before. This is why I keep nagging at you and keep asking you questions that you keep not answering. I mean there is so much that I brought up here that you didn't respond to or even acknowledge at all. Rather than make this post even longer and repeat myself yet again, I'm just going to change the font of everything you haven't seemed to acknowledged to me in white.
See how much of it that is? It isn't anything you've said that's drove me insane, it's what you haven't said. The way you've been acting in this game, again, just like the last, that I'm not working with you when to me it feels like you're refusing to work with me by at least acknowledging the existence of so, fucking, much, of what I have taken the time to say to you.
Again, it's a failing of mine.
No, it's not. Fuck.
I don't think it's in any way wrong to not feel warm and fuzzy if you feel someone is mocking people, but I'm not doing that. But rather than listen to me when I say that I'm not doing that you still say that I am doing that and that you're just not reacting to it well. This is the kind of thing that keeps happening with us and it makes me go apeshit because it just seems so unnecessary and easily avoidable yet it keeps fucking happening and I don't know what I can do to help it. It's the most frustrating thing ever and I'm sorry but I don't know what to do better.
I know you disagree with me, but I do think you ARE doing this. And it is a failing that have that I tend to conflate snark with bad. I know that *I* am more snark when I am bad, and so are most other people. From years of observation. In real life and in online games. So again, since this is my fail, I am asking you to please stop doing it.
Since we disagree and I gave you extensive explanation as to why from my point of view - the point of view of the person that said what they said, rather than the person that read what they said - wasn't intended as mockery to me. You've completely ignored all of that explanation to simply say that you think I am doing this. Okay, fine. Why? It just feels like I'm talking to a brick wall when I try to repeat myself in so many ways and you still just casually disagree as if everything I've gone to the trouble of clarifying means fuck-all to you. No, it's worse than that. Here's what it feels like to me.
It feels like you make a post saying something vaguely negative about me. Could be alignment-indicative, could be personal, I don't know, there's evidence for both and there's evidence against both as well so I just don't fucking know.
Then I respond to you asking you what exactly you meant while also trying to convey to you as clearly as I can what my point of view is on whatever it is that I think you're talking about, as well as go into detail about the issues I've been having with communicating with you in the hopes that you'll acknowledge them and we can look forward to it not happening again, at least not as often as it's been happening recently.
Then once I've posted my response, you write the response that you think I would've made to your initial post for me and ignore the one that I've actually given you. You then go on to respond to that make-believe response of mine instead of my real response while quoting me so it looks like otherwise.
Now let me make as clear as I can even though I've already said it so many times:
I don't think you're doing this. I don't think you're deliberately ignoring me or misreading me or misrepresenting me or whatever.
Deliberately. But we're communicating so horribly with each other that even though I think you're trying to put in an honest effort to work with me, it feels to me like you're doing what I've just described even though I know that isn't the case. I don't even know what to ask of you because I think that you're already doing the best you can to respond to me and I've been consistently trying as hard as I can for both this game and the last to work with you and it hasn't worked. I just don't know what to do and I can't stand it, because this problem negatively effects my enjoyment of the game so much (and yours as well I imagine considering how you were in the last game) and yet it seems so easily avoidable on the surface. There's nothing I hate more than what seems like an easily avoidable issue that always ruins everything.
I'll do my best to try to keep up...
I hope all is well in your neck of the woods. 
havent played mafia for a while feels like i'm starting over 
Fiddler on the Roof
