[END] Bioshock Mafia

[Matahari]

It's risky to vote yourself, I've seen people pile more votes on players who voted themselves, and in one game, the guy was lynched. I can't see a baddie taking that risk.

I also don't see zany dex responding like he is, as a baddie thing either. As far as the role that gets to change if he gets five votes, I'm not sure dex would reveal himself as that role. Maybe he would, but why would he?

I don't know who I'll be voting but I don't think it will be for either of these guys.

[Spacedaisy]

Ok,so I read everything from the night post in one sitting.

BWT's post that confused everyone. I immediately noticed it and was suspicious because it read as either a slip up, or an attempt to protect Zany Dex. Knowing however, that he has listed Zany Dex as his top suspect, it seems more likely to be the first. It remains to be seen if he actually votes for Dex or not however. It is easy to say someone is your top suspect and then suddenly find a reason to choose someone else later. Ive done it as a baddie myself in games like America Horror Story ln Hedville. I went hard after MP all game but i always had an excuse to vote for somone else first, because MP was my baddie teammate and i was distancing. LA pointed out the post and asked hm to clarify, she and I seem to be on the same wavelength so I appreciate her posts on the topic. I found it most interesting that Llama seemed so immediately dismissive of BWT's post being at all suspect and Mongoose tried to explain that it looked like a typo. Mongoose, you trying to explain away what David said reads like defending a team mate to me.

Right now, BWT has my eye most of all. not just because of that post though. I found his posts on Day 1 seemed to be that of someone looking for the safe vote and seeing what was going to stick.

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

I'm not going to have Internet for the rest of the weekend, and I have to vote now.

I'm going to vote for myself, as I do not have enough time to read through a thread.

Zuh? This game is nuts.

Can someone explain the voting for yourself thing? YOu know 100% that you are on your own team, whereas with anyone else there is at least a chance you get someone of the opposite team, so why do it? Ever?

It's a gambit.

I did it once like Day 5 because I didn't feel like deciding who to vote for between the two suspects. Needless to say, people came after me.

[Mongoose]

Ok,so I read everything from the night post in one sitting.

BWT's post that confused everyone. I immediately noticed it and was suspicious because it read as either a slip up, or an attempt to protect Zany Dex. Knowing however, that he has listed Zany Dex as his top suspect, it seems more likely to be the first. It remains to be seen if he actually votes for Dex or not however. It is easy to say someone is your top suspect and then suddenly find a reason to choose someone else later. Ive done it as a baddie myself in games like America Horror Story ln Hedville. I went hard after MP all game but i always had an excuse to vote for somone else first, because MP was my baddie teammate and i was distancing. LA pointed out the post and asked hm to clarify, she and I seem to be on the same wavelength so I appreciate her posts on the topic. I found it most interesting that Llama seemed so immediately dismissive of BWT's post being at all suspect and Mongoose tried to explain that it looked like a typo. Mongoose, you trying to explain away what David said reads like defending a team mate to me.

Right now, BWT has my eye most of all. not just because of that post though. I found his posts on Day 1 seemed to be that of someone looking for the safe vote and seeing what was going to stick.

I see what you mean, but pointing out a typo isn't really tantamount to being in cahoots with someone. I just don't want to vote off someone who was a civ, especially after being a part of the group that kicked off A Person. If you read my posts that I wrote after the typo-mentioning ones, you'll see I became increasingly suspicious of bwt as our analysis and synthesis of his posts continued.

[Bullzeye]

Juliets, here is the rationale I gave in the thread just before I was lynched if this helps.

Now that all the votes have been cast, I can reveal the patented "Llama Gambit."

Knowing that most of the time baddies try to act helpful and logical to blend in with the civvies, I decided to act crazy and illogical. A baddie would have to be nuts to act the way I've been acting, and I was counting on the civs realizing that. Therefore, civs would be unlikely to vote for me, but baddies would see an opportunity. They could vote for a civ and when my affiliation is revealed excuse themselves by saying "well, he was acting really crazy."

However, by revealing my strategy in the thread, one of two things will happen: Either I get lynched, in which case the civvies have good info on who the baddies are based on who voted for me, or I survive and still have good info based on the votes for me. Either way, my team is aided substantially towards victory.

This is the "Llama Gambit." I hope you are as impressed with it as I was when I came up with it.

It was less successful than I had hoped, although it did result in one baddie lynch(Bullzeye) and would have resulted in another(Lizzy). I think it would have been more successful in a game with fewer newibies.

Here's my problem with it.

You're calling it the llama gambit. This is basically how Dex plays at least half the time (he kind of slips between making zero sense to me, and not posting much, sometimes in the same game), and it seems to be regardless of alignment.

Ofc, I also don't think the gambit makes much sense. If you act in a bizarre way, you're going to takes votes for it. From civvies and baddies. I'm not sure that employing WIFOM to say, "Aaha! I know I'm a civ, and I tricked you into voting for me by being so insane you would do so, but also being so insane to the point no baddie actually would act like this. So everyone who voted for me is bad!" makes no sense. You can bring on any bandwagon, and baddies will pile on it if they think it's safe. But in order for the bandwagon to be safe, civvies have to be voting there to, which the baddies know.

Thank you! I still say I'd have voted Llama in that game regardless of if I was a civvie, and technically the gambit didn't get me in that game, a lynch switch based on a good guess got me. Nobody else seemed to agree.

I kinda feel like Dex is deliberately after votes today. This makes me want to not vote for him just in case.

[Snow Dog]

I dunno. I was pretty sure you were bad until that lynch switch got Nev, your team mate. Only after that started to trust you

[Bullzeye]

I think I died before Nev actually, could be wrong though.

[Snow Dog]

^No that's wrong...you died before nev. But I did try and get you lynched due to the Llama Gambit. I don't remeber why I started to trust you now.

[bea]

Gambit is a true cuddle llama. He is perfect for families and for people who like to get out there and do things with their llamas.

Cute llama's are cute. I should book mark that page and send it to Booneh.

Ah so you DID say "bad" instead of "good." That's why I thought it was a slip up lol.

WTF is Dex doing? Any reason he would try to get himself lynched/voted for?

I totally got why you were questioning him LA, but I'm inclined to think that it was more a typo than it was a slip up - especially after his clarification. Though he's trickstery for sure. My mind is not made up on him yet.

Indeed! I think some players took crazy pills instead of plasmids.

QFT.

Ah so you DID say "bad" instead of "good." That's why I thought it was a slip up lol.

WTF is Dex doing? Any reason he would try to get himself lynched/voted for?

Yeah. I went back and read it, and I saw that immediately. No wonder so many people got confused!

I have no idea honestly. This seems like typical Dex behavior, and I always read him as bad. I'd prefer to hear something more concrete from him, but so far it seems like he keeps trying to dig a hole for himself.

Linki: Most definitely.

As a fellow Southerner, I feel for anyone without A/C! Hope that is set to rights soon.

As a denizen of the "Valley of the Sun," (our coolest day this week was 108 degrees. Don't think I didn't giggle that the temp was 108 btw) I second this. No AC in the summer sucks it. I hope you get it fixed soon David!

I think I might vote for myself the case against me looks iron tight.

Ok - so someone help me out here. There was a game played a while back ago on RM where it was either Aces or DH, had everyone so afraid of using his name, that for days people referred to him as Voldimort (I want to say it was Tranq's San Andreas game but I could be wrong). I ask because I was dead in that game when it started happening, and I sort of lost track of things before I found out how it all turned out. I also ask because this is EXACTLY what Dex's behavior is starting to remind me of.

Ofc, I also don't think the gambit makes much sense. If you act in a bizarre way, you're going to takes votes for it. From civvies and baddies. I'm not sure that employing WIFOM to say, "Aaha! I know I'm a civ, and I tricked you into voting for me by being so insane you would do so, but also being so insane to the point no baddie actually would act like this. So everyone who voted for me is bad!" makes no sense. You can bring on any bandwagon, and baddies will pile on it if they think it's safe. But in order for the bandwagon to be safe, civvies have to be voting there to, which the baddies know.

It's easy to criticize, but I don't hear anyone talking about the boo gambit.

Oh now that's just funny.

I'm not going to have Internet for the rest of the weekend, and I have to vote now.

I'm going to vote for myself, as I do not have enough time to read through a thread.

Zuh? This game is nuts.

Can someone explain the voting for yourself thing? YOu know 100% that you are on your own team, whereas with anyone else there is at least a chance you get someone of the opposite team, so why do it? Ever?

I think one reason people do it is if they are just totally at a loss or can't catch up with the thread so they make a "safe" vote, that is not vote for anyone that might be an innocent civv but is still a vote, especially if there are penalties for not voting. They see it as hurting no one but themselves. There's one player i haven't seen around in a while who always votes for himself on day 1...

Awe....I miss Jase. I wonder what that dude's up to....

I've got a crapton of nothing for this lynch and that's troubling to me.

I guess I get to spend the "video game" chunk of my day off with my sweetie re-reading the thread.

[bea]

OK - I totally effed up the quote tages there somehow - I shall bold my replies (and make them all PINK here:

EBWOP:

Gambit is a true cuddle llama. He is perfect for families and for people who like to get out there and do things with their llamas.

Cute llama's are cute. I should book mark that page and send it to Booneh.

Ah so you DID say "bad" instead of "good." That's why I thought it was a slip up lol.

WTF is Dex doing? Any reason he would try to get himself lynched/voted for?

I totally got why you were questioning him LA, but I'm inclined to think that it was more a typo than it was a slip up - especially after his clarification. Though he's trickstery for sure. My mind is not made up on him yet.

Indeed! I think some players took crazy pills instead of plasmids.

QFT

Ah so you DID say "bad" instead of "good." That's why I thought it was a slip up lol.

WTF is Dex doing? Any reason he would try to get himself lynched/voted for?

Yeah. I went back and read it, and I saw that immediately. No wonder so many people got confused!

I have no idea honestly. This seems like typical Dex behavior, and I always read him as bad. I'd prefer to hear something more concrete from him, but so far it seems like he keeps trying to dig a hole for himself.

Linki: Most definitely.

As a fellow Southerner, I feel for anyone without A/C! Hope that is set to rights soon.

As a denizen of the "Valley of the Sun," (our coolest day this week was 108 degrees. Don't think I didn't giggle that the temp was 108 btw) I second this. No AC in the summer sucks it. I hope you get it fixed soon David!

I think I might vote for myself the case against me looks iron tight.

Ok - so someone help me out here. There was a game played a while back ago on RM where it was either Aces or DH, had everyone so afraid of using his name, that for days people referred to him as Voldimort (I want to say it was Tranq's San Andreas game but I could be wrong). I ask because I was dead in that game when it started happening, and I sort of lost track of things before I found out how it all turned out. I also ask because this is EXACTLY what Dex's behavior is starting to remind me of.

Ofc, I also don't think the gambit makes much sense. If you act in a bizarre way, you're going to takes votes for it. From civvies and baddies. I'm not sure that employing WIFOM to say, "Aaha! I know I'm a civ, and I tricked you into voting for me by being so insane you would do so, but also being so insane to the point no baddie actually would act like this. So everyone who voted for me is bad!" makes no sense. You can bring on any bandwagon, and baddies will pile on it if they think it's safe. But in order for the bandwagon to be safe, civvies have to be voting there to, which the baddies know.

It's easy to criticize, but I don't hear anyone talking about the boo gambit.

Oh now that's just funny.

I'm not going to have Internet for the rest of the weekend, and I have to vote now.

I'm going to vote for myself, as I do not have enough time to read through a thread.

Zuh? This game is nuts.

Can someone explain the voting for yourself thing? YOu know 100% that you are on your own team, whereas with anyone else there is at least a chance you get someone of the opposite team, so why do it? Ever?

I think one reason people do it is if they are just totally at a loss or can't catch up with the thread so they make a "safe" vote, that is not vote for anyone that might be an innocent civv but is still a vote, especially if there are penalties for not voting. They see it as hurting no one but themselves. There's one player i haven't seen around in a while who always votes for himself on day 1...

Awe....I miss Jase. I wonder what that dude's up to....

I've got a crapton of nothing for this lynch and that's troubling to me.

I guess I get to spend the "video game" chunk of my day off with my sweetie re-reading the thread.

Hope this helps some.

[bea]

triple post because IDK how the eff I just changed the subject title and it freeks me out on the front page like that.

I swear you guys. I'm only on my first drink.

[Dom]

By the time I voted, it wouldn't have mattered who I voted for. I also didn't see a good reason to vote for AP, as the case against him was silly, in my opinion. Instead of hopping on that bandwagon, I threw my vote somewhere else. I didn't see much point in explaining that, so I didn't.

How fatalistic of you. And on a furhter note, i'lll be looking at you

Nah, I like watching everything unfold from the afueras. That's just how I like to play mafia. I'll leave the public speculation to you folks. Forgive the intrusion, I'll only butt in when the game dictates I have to.

This doesn't seem right somehow. Like refusing to play. How about we all lynch him tomorrow whatever his alliance?

Yes. Let's just lynch players because they play quiet and are honest about it. I'm looking at you, Snow Dog.

Is what lizard tongue man said very strange? Yeha, I think so. he basically said don't look at me I Don't like being looked at. That's not quite the way I would play, or how I think most civvies would play, but I don't think it made him bad. Now you're saying, let's lynch him no matter if he's civvie or not.

That's very bad, SD. It's basically saying that we should lynch people who don't like to talk because they aren't contributing. And that's something baddies like to do because they usually don't fight back too much because they are... by definition of the plan, quiet.


LINKI: Boo

Same opinion as you on Aces. Not as convinced he's abd as you seem to be, but I do think he's being strangely suspicious.

I admit my post was a bit hasty but I said it as a player of mafia. I thought his attitude was all wrong but you know that's just my opinion. In the end it might have come to nothing depending if others wanted to lynch him.

Anyway he was killed by a civ.

That's a pretty big logical fallacy to assume that we're all good because he was killed by a civvie. I mean, civvies, especially those who can switch allegiance, could kill other civvies on accident or on purpose. And your post reeks of, "Uh oh" to me.

If someone gets lynched unanimously (or nearly so) there's no real information to be learned from their lynching. Even if you get a baddie, if every single person voted for them and there was no even subtle push away from them, you can't do anything with that result as it gives you no where to go.

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Ah so you DID say "bad" instead of "good." That's why I thought it was a slip up lol.

WTF is Dex doing? Any reason he would try to get himself lynched/voted for?

Seems so. There is definitely some strange behaviour this game.

I wonder if there's a reason. . .

Probably the plasmids, tbh


i'm spending the day at the beach, so I'm voting now and I'm voting for Snow Dog. I think he's backpeddled pretty hard from what I said to him. And I didn't like what he said in the first place.


Vote yo

[Elohcin]

Despite all the talking going on, I feel there is not much to go on today. I will have to vote early, however because I have a wedding cake to deliver this afternoon. I'll check in before I leave.

[Flyin' High]

RIP agleamin.

Dex has always been super zany, it is a huge part of his charm. However, this might be the zaniest thing I've seen him do. I can't decide if he honestly is trying to get votes or get lynched, or if he's just posting like this simply because he finds it funny. Was there anyone else that was being mainly discussed that isn't right now due to us being distracted by Dex?

I need to set up my spreadsheet today because otherwise I will be lost all game long (recently discovered I am like a fish out of water if I try to play mafia without my spreadsheet).

[Snow Dog]

Dom, frankly I don't care if you liked what I said or not. I admit I back pedalled a little because I shouldn't have posted in annoyance. But that doesn't make me bad. A bad person maybe and maybe bad judgement in posting it. But not in game bad.
Why not vote for Aceofspaces who was even more forthright than I? I don't see you questioning his post!

[Snow Dog]

RIP agleamin.

Dex has always been super zany, it is a huge part of his charm. However, this might be the zaniest thing I've seen him do. I can't decide if he honestly is trying to get votes or get lynched, or if he's just posting like this simply because he finds it funny. Was there anyone else that was being mainly discussed that isn't right now due to us being distracted by Dex?

I need to set up my spreadsheet today because otherwise I will be lost all game long (recently discovered I am like a fish out of water if I try to play mafia without my spreadsheet).

I don't think I'll be voting for Dex. Seems too easy. Can he really be bad acting in this way?

[thellama73]

RIP agleamin.

Dex has always been super zany, it is a huge part of his charm. However, this might be the zaniest thing I've seen him do. I can't decide if he honestly is trying to get votes or get lynched, or if he's just posting like this simply because he finds it funny. Was there anyone else that was being mainly discussed that isn't right now due to us being distracted by Dex?

I need to set up my spreadsheet today because otherwise I will be lost all game long (recently discovered I am like a fish out of water if I try to play mafia without my spreadsheet).

I don't think I'll be voting for Dex. Seems too easy. Can he really be bad acting in this way?

I'm starting to lean this way as well, although it leaves me with little idea of who to vote for.

[Vompatti]

I think I'll vote for one of the A Person voters but I'd have to read back to decide which one.

[Hedgeowl]

Not sure who I am looking at today. But I know I won't be voting Zany Dex for being, well, Zany - he is always this way regardless of alignment. I also don't see anything screaming Ace is a baddie either... yet.

This seems to be the thought a few have expressed about Zany. I have not played with him before amd therefore have no read on his style. While he definitely made me laugh with some of his responses, I still wonder what is going on. However, some of the same defenses are popping up that happened before with A Person, which concerns me. Eventually we have to lynch someone though and can't hesitate just because their play style is always the same. I am going to do a quick reread, but will have to vote early.

[Snow Dog]

Lizzy's self vote still worries me. Of course she could be an anarchist civ, but more probably a baddie who is very confident after winning her previous mafia game. Well, maybe.

[Snow Dog]

BTW...are there six security bots?

[indiglo]

I don't think Zany Dex's zany behavior is proof of anything personally. He could be bad or good, but he always acts Zany. That's how he rolls. I'll wait till I see something that seems to show his alignment before voting him.

I have to vote now because I'm gone all afternoon and won't be back until after the post closes. I am moving forward with my vote for BWT. He did explain that typo, but it still didn't answer the behavior I found suspish from the get go in the game. (Sorry man! )

*votes BWT*

[birdwithteeth11]

I don't think Zany Dex's zany behavior is proof of anything personally. He could be bad or good, but he always acts Zany. That's how he rolls. I'll wait till I see something that seems to show his alignment before voting him.

I have to vote now because I'm gone all afternoon and won't be back until after the post closes. I am moving forward with my vote for BWT. He did explain that typo, but it still didn't answer the behavior I found suspish from the get go in the game. (Sorry man! )

*votes BWT*

I know it's a bit too late vote-wise, but what was the behavior that you found suspicious?

[Hedgeowl]

Alright, after a reread I am finding the back and forth between boo and Ace interesting. Also, Ace goes from not explaining his vote for boo (which he then did) to targeting Gleam, for seemingly similar not helping the civvie cause behavior. His posts read together just strike me as odd more so than Zany's posts currently.I don't know if I will be back before the vote, so I am casting my ballot now.

Votes AceofSpaces

[birdwithteeth11]

BTW...are there six security bots?

Yes. Which means there are still 5 more alive.

I don't think I'll be voting for Dex. Seems too easy. Can he really be bad acting in this way?

I'm starting to lean this way as well, although it leaves me with little idea of who to vote for.

I could see him being bad and doing this. But I think I agree with SD and llama for now. This almost seems too deliberate on Dex's part. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if he is Sander Cohen and is just doing this because he wants different win conditions. I know that's kind of a wacky theory, but I could see Dex trying to accomplish something like that for the heck of it. But regardless, I will not be voting for him today.

I'm going to go back and re-read the back and forth between Aces and boo. That's the only other thing I remember finding suspicious. I might also take a look at why Dom voted for Snow Dog. Can anyone think of anything else that might be worth looking at too?

[DharmaHelper]

Hosting a game of Fiasco later today so I took the time I have now to read up and I will vote now.

Voting Mongoose, basically shooting in the dark at the early A Person voters.

[Vompatti]

As none of the A Person voters particularly stands out for me I'm going with Mongoose as well.

*votes Mongoose*

[DharmaHelper]

Shamalan TWIST

[DharmaHelper]

My thoughts on Dex are that he seems too willing to receive votes, scrutiny, and even to get lynched, so I will be ignoring him for now. I find when people get zany (pun intended) the best way to nip it in the bud is to ignore them. I know when I try to pull shenanigans it's usually to get people to respond one way or the other and if I get ignored it cuts my plans and schemes to shreds.

My thoughts on BWT are that the "slip" and subsequent discussion are pingy but may just be heatstroke. So I am eyeing him until he can return to normal brain functionality.

[birdwithteeth11]

I'm glad I did that re-read. I would encourage everyone who hasn't voted yet today to take a look at the back-and-forth between Aces and boo, as well as read up on some of what Snow Dog has said. These are the two quotes that stick out the most to me.

By the time I voted, it wouldn't have mattered who I voted for. I also didn't see a good reason to vote for AP, as the case against him was silly, in my opinion. Instead of hopping on that bandwagon, I threw my vote somewhere else. I didn't see much point in explaining that, so I didn't.

So you didn't like where the majority opinion was going, therefore you "tossed [your] vote somewhere else". That's fine, but you don't think you have to explain why you voted that way?

This doesn't seem right somehow. Like refusing to play. How about we all lynch him tomorrow whatever his alliance?

This was about Gleam's lack of wanting to be active and get involved. Seems like somebody is trying to start a bandwagon on an easy target to me.

There are more quotes I could pull, but I'd prefer that others check it out and decide for themselves. But I do know my vote will be going to one of these two today.

Linki: As of when I got home last night from work, the AC was working normally again. So heat-related confusion shouldn't be an issue unless it conks out again. And thanks for the concern, bea! I appreciate it!

[Snow Dog]

I may have come out and said it. As a suggestion. Anyone could have argued against the lynch quite easily so there was no way I could start a bandwagon from that. But even so, I think many players agreed with my sentiment. Enough for him to get NKed anyway. d

[thellama73]

I agree that Snow Dog's attack on gleam was very hasty and aggressive, but I don't read it as a baddie move, I read it as the same frustration I was feeling about so many people refusing to participate or try to help the civs at all. I also agree with what he said about Lizzy. I feel like she was hiding in A Person's shadow, knowing the AP would be lynched for crazy behavior, flip civ and feeling like that would exonerate her for acting similarly. She also does seem very overconfident (there was a comment about how she was new but still managed to win two out of three games that came across as boasting to me.)

I am probably leaning towards a Lizzy vote today, although I am tempted to vote for INH just because the self vote annoys me.

[Boomslang]

Maybe I'm playing into his hands, but I'm going to vote Dex today. The suspicions that he's raised about himself seem to have protected him more than challenged him, and I don't think that's the way it should be.

[thellama73]

I am also deeply troubled by Nevinera's prolonged silence. It is clear he is purposefully flying under the radar to avoid scrutiny. That's a fair enough tactic, especially given his history being killed early, but I want to make sure people don't forget about him going forward.

[Elohcin]

Well, I must get ready and leave soon, so I guess I have to go ahead and vote. I will go with BWT. He is the only one that's even sort-of pingy.

*votes BWT*

[Snow Dog]

In case anybody else thinks I was completely out of order in my comment regarding aglaminranks, may I take this opportunity to remind everyone of what AceofSpaces said.

Nah, I like watching everything unfold from the afueras. That's just how I like to play mafia. I'll leave the public speculation to you folks. Forgive the intrusion, I'll only butt in when the game dictates I have to.

Well then, I'm going to force you to play

I'm going to vote for you tomorrow, and I am going to campaign for other people to vote for you too.

(I'm also looking at a few other people, and I might post my thoughts later if I can bring them all together. But for right now, this seems like the most fun thing to devote my time too.)

Added: Quiet players get a rougher time because being quiet usually means you are trying to blend in and avoid notice. Something baddies do. It's harder for a bad player to be vocal because they have to bullshit most of the time, and it is only a matter of time before someone calls you on bullshit. Some people are really good and being vocal baddies, but it is a difficult art to master.

I'm reading you as baddie. Perfectly content to sit back and watch everyone else make mistakes while you slide by day by day. Not on my watch.

Added: Novel reasoning Dex.

[Spacedaisy]

Well I need to go to work now and no one else has raised my suspicions enough to change my mind from voting for BWT.

*votes BWT*

[Bullzeye]

Maybe I'm playing into his hands, but I'm going to vote Dex today. The suspicions that he's raised about himself seem to have protected him more than challenged him, and I don't think that's the way it should be.

The thing is he's clearly actively trying to get people to vote for him. I think it would probably be a bad idea to do so because of that.

[Russtifinko]

First off, I'm sorry for not being around yesterday, everyone! Lots of interesting discussion that I wish I could have contributed too.

My house got recarpeted yesterday, and unbeknowst to me (until it happened, anyway) that necessitated disconnecting our internet. By the time the carpeting was done I was at a concert with MP and AllAlongTheBoardwalk, and when I got home it was bedtime. Hopefully I don't foresee being away for any more prolonged periods.

Rereading and will post thoughts soon....

[thellama73]

I'm going out on a limb here (at great personal risk to myself if I happen to be wrong) but I just reread BWT and I really don't think he is bad. I have been on a baddie team with him multiple times, and he is reading completely civ to me right now. I don't have any specific quotes to pull, it is just his overall tone. I find the way Rob, Elohcin and others are gunning for him somewhat suspect.

[>SpaghettiEverywhere]

I'm definitely going to vote for Aces for the way he went after agleam

[thellama73]

In fact, I've decided to vote for Epignosis today. The only contribution he has made towards the game has been a single-minded attack on BWT, based on one piece of evidence, which I don't find at all compelling. Once he got other people talking about BWT, he quietly receded into the background.

*Votes Epignosis*

(I'm taking a big gamble on having read you right, BWT. I hope you don't disappoint me.)

[nutella]

I, like others, am hesitant to vote for Dex -- I kind of support the theory that he's Sander Cohen trying to get his 5 votes to turn rogue.

I'm pretty sure I'll be voting for BWT. The tone of his posts has been pinging me, not to mention that possible slip-up and his weird explanation of it -- he seemed to contradict by saying "yes that's what I meant" to two opposing meanings IMO (I should probably pull the quote for that)

I'm going to go back and re-read the back and forth between Aces and boo. That's the only other thing I remember finding suspicious. I might also take a look at why Dom voted for Snow Dog. Can anyone think of anything else that might be worth looking at too?

Also this and his subsequent post looks to me like a baddie who knows he's likely to get voted for today, trying to push other suspects into the limelight by making a show of building up cases on people who have already been suspected. Trying to subtly turn the thread away from him. I mean, I guess a civvie could do that too but this fits with my read of BWT as bad.

[birdwithteeth11]

I, like others, am hesitant to vote for Dex -- I kind of support the theory that he's Sander Cohen trying to get his 5 votes to turn rogue.

I'm pretty sure I'll be voting for BWT. The tone of his posts has been pinging me, not to mention that possible slip-up and his weird explanation of it -- he seemed to contradict by saying "yes that's what I meant" to two opposing meanings IMO (I should probably pull the quote for that)

How was my explanation weird? I made a typo, it understandably confused a lot of people with it, and it took me awhile to realize what I had done that caused that confusion. I wouldn't mind seeing what quote you're referring to. Because I don't think I contradicted myself.

I'm going to go back and re-read the back and forth between Aces and boo. That's the only other thing I remember finding suspicious. I might also take a look at why Dom voted for Snow Dog. Can anyone think of anything else that might be worth looking at too?

Also this and his subsequent post looks to me like a baddie who knows he's likely to get voted for today, trying to push other suspects into the limelight by making a show of building up cases on people who have already been suspected. Trying to subtly turn the thread away from him. I mean, I guess a civvie could do that too but this fits with my read of BWT as bad.

I'm avoiding looking at Dex, for the reason I stated previously. I don't think it's a good idea for us to let him turn rogue. And on re-reading, those are the only other two people so far who have pinged me enough to possibly get my vote.

I'm not really trying to turn the thread away from me. If people find me suspicious, I would prefer they say why and give me a chance to defend myself. The votes from Daisy and Elo sounded like "Well, there's not much other worthwhile discussion so far today, so BWT still seems like the best option." With all the discussion that's been going on so far today, that seems a bit disingenuine to me.

[nutella]

OK here is BWT's clarification of the typo:

The way BWT worded it was confusing. I think most of us read "concern" as meaning "worry," but he seems to have meant it in the sense of "priority."

Yes, I meant it as "worry" moreso than "concern". I'm having a hard time struggling to word things clearly. The AC broke at our house yesterday and someone is coming to fix it this afternoon, so it's very humid and muggy and hard for me to focus.

BWT can correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I took what he said to mean.

If someone gets lynched unanimously (or nearly so) there's no real information to be learned from their lynching. Even if you get a baddie, if every single person voted for them and there was no even subtle push away from them, you can't do anything with that result as it gives you no where to go.

With Dex, a unanimous lynching with no teammate even bothering to try and steer it away from him is something I think BWT was saying he can see happening.

It's either that or a comment I thought made sense actually makes no sense (even as a typo unless he heavily edited it or something).

Sort of. I just realized I have a very glaring typo in my original post. See if this makes any more sense now.

RIP Gleam. A shame you had to die so early Kooby.

Which sucks, because I was one of the people I was going to be looking at today. Dex is currently my top suspect though. His drive-by-post-vote doesn't sit well with me, and then him saying he did it because he saw a bandwagon forming and wanting to jump on it doesn't sit well at all. My main concern is that we lynch him nearly unanimously and he winds up being good. The sad part of that being I could see that happen because.....well, he is quite zany after all. :P

That's part one of it. The second part you nailed down pretty well. Someone who gets lynched via bandwagon and gets all (or nearly all) of the votes leaves us with very little information in terms of potential teammates. I've seen this happen to Dex before, which is why I want to hear more from him before I decide to cast a vote his way or look elsewhere.

If any of you are still confused, please let me know. I'm not intentionally trying to muddle what I'm saying.

Dex linki: Wait, what?!?! Now I'm feeling confused.

There seem to be two different things he was worried about that he meant to articulate in the original post: a) that we lynch Dex and he turns out to be good, or b) that we lynch Dex and he turns out to be bad but it doesn't lead us to teammates because of a unanimous vote. BWT conflated these in his odd wording, and yeah sure he inadvertently jumbled his words a bit, but when some of us tried to figure out what he meant he responded oddly here. I just feel like he was explaining it away by quoting what a couple people said and saying "Yeah that's kinda what I meant." It's not so much what he originally said that I find suspicious, but more the way he responded afterwards.

linki hope this makes sense bwt

[birdwithteeth11]

In the interest of not making a huge quote pyramid out of that, I will just respond with a separate post. Yes, my wording was conflated and my response was odd. I think the heat and lack of AC was getting to my brain, and made it hard to explain the message I was trying to get across. A few people had sort of figured out what I was trying to say, so I pulled those quotes in an attempt to clear up my point.

I get why you would look at that as suspicious. Unfortunately, there were external circumstances that made my original post come across as weird. I'm extremely warm-blooded and do not do well in the heat. At all. I know it's really strange, but I'm asking you to give me a chance to prove myself otherwise. Now that I don't have to deal with the heat clouding my mind and thoughts. I think that's all I have for now, but I'll be happy to respond to any other questions/thoughts you might have about it.

[Epignosis]

In fact, I've decided to vote for Epignosis today. The only contribution he has made towards the game has been a single-minded attack on BWT, based on one piece of evidence, which I don't find at all compelling. Once he got other people talking about BWT, he quietly receded into the background.

*Votes Epignosis*

(I'm taking a big gamble on having read you right, BWT. I hope you don't disappoint me.)

I leave all my tabs up all day, even if I'm not at the computer. So while it looks like I'm here and keeping up but not saying anything, I may not be here at all.

Mostly today I've been playing through Fable from the beginning, all to Simon's delight. "Chicken chaser!" I never finished it years ago when I first got it (that's true of most titles I have). I'd forgotten about what a well-made game it was.

Anyway, my suspicion of birdwithteeth11 is not based on one thing. What you reference was the first thing that made me look in his direction, and I'm still looking there.

Addendum: Exactly, nutella.

Addendum 2: Even birdwithteeth understands the case against him.

[nutella]

In the interest of not making a huge quote pyramid out of that, I will just respond with a separate post. Yes, my wording was conflated and my response was odd. I think the heat and lack of AC was getting to my brain, and made it hard to explain the message I was trying to get across. A few people had sort of figured out what I was trying to say, so I pulled those quotes in an attempt to clear up my point.

See, this is the part that confuses me. You quoted two people who thought you were saying two different things, and said they were both right. It just didn't make sense.

Most of your defense seems genuine (kinda playing up the heat getting to your brain thing but I can buy that I guess), but you're not really responding to what I actually found odd. Probably my fault for not being clear. >_>

[thellama73]

Anyway, my suspicion of birdwithteeth11 is not based on one thing. What you reference was the first thing that made me look in his direction, and I'm still looking there.

It may be based on more than one thing, but if so you have not said so. Here is everything you have said about BWT so far:

But your sweeping criticism of early random voters followed by your defense of an early random voter in the very same post is contradictory, and rather amusing since there was only one early random voter (Vompatti).

For this reason I am voting birdwithteeth11.

All your suspicions sound great. I still want to know about my #1: You.

And it's funny how juliets was satisfied with your unsatisfactory explanation enough to vote for A Person.

You actually pointed out his inconsistency before I could: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 742#p23742

No, I did not expect you to argue about Vomp's personality. I expected you to press birdwithteeth11 for criticizing early random voters, and yet defending the one person who voted random early. You haven't done that. Why?

Would you kindly tell me why that defense of Vompatti clears birdwithteeth11?

He criticized people for early random voting.

Vompatti was the only one to do this.

He excused Vompatti.

I don't have a problem with Vomp.

I have one with BWT. He was contradictory and has said nothing to dissuade my opinion.

All of this is based on the fact that he criticized early random voting, but then excused Vomps. I understand that, but I think it's a weak case, and I think you look suspicious for pushing it so hard and then falling silent when others took up the mantle. Perhaps coordination between teammates. You attack the Vomps comment while someone else attacks the typo (that was clearly just a typo.)

[Nevinera]

Alright, after a reread I am finding the back and forth between boo and Ace interesting. Also, Ace goes from not explaining his vote for boo (which he then did) to targeting Gleam, for seemingly similar not helping the civvie cause behavior. His posts read together just strike me as odd more so than Zany's posts currently.I don't know if I will be back before the vote, so I am casting my ballot now.

Votes AceofSpaces

I find your argument compelling, and I already had some suspicions about Ace from Day 1 - I'm voting Ace now, so I don't forget to vote and get yelled at by MP (or booted. Or tracked down and murdered in my home.. you never know with these music people).

I am also deeply troubled by Nevinera's prolonged silence. It is clear he is purposefully flying under the radar to avoid scrutiny. That's a fair enough tactic, especially given his history being killed early, but I want to make sure people don't forget about him going forward.

My prolonged silence is not really intentional - I'm not trying to 'fly under the radar', certainly.
I belong in smaller games - I can barely keep up with *reading* all of this stuff, and as far as I can tell
everyone in the game is just voting randomly and pointing fingers at obviously silly stuff.
It would take 3-4 hours every day to attempt my usual playstyle in a game like this one - too many teams,
too many different motivations (which I still don't fully understand), and too many variables.
Add in that all the night kills are probabilistic, and I basically can't use logic to learn anything at all.

So yeah, I'm not talking much - I have nothing really to say yet.