[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Prisoner 509378]

I have nagging doubts about Scotty, and about lynching you. If you're an evil baddie then you're doing a fantastic job of conveying an earnest tone every time you're pressed. I'm looking through your posts for anti-Scotty stuff. I'm looking for inspiration.

[sig]

I don't think ika is bad. He might be the most confusing enigma I've ever encountered in a Mafia game, but I'll stick with my gut today barring a convincing sell that I read that whole exchange like a dope.

I want Quin to inspire me.

Should I paint you a pretty picture?

You seem a bit resigned. After putting forth an admirable effort as you have, in a game which town is currently losing, that is not a great look. Now is when the intensity level should be revving up before it's too late.

@Quin lol

509, I don't think it is that strange. If you've been pressed for days and think you are going to get lynched as a civ I can see this being your reaction.

@indi okay thanks for answer, and I don't mind the smiles just thought it was worth pointing out in case it is a tell. :P

[Quin]

I have nagging doubts about Scotty, and about lynching you. If you're an evil baddie then you're doing a fantastic job of conveying an earnest tone every time you're pressed. I'm looking through your posts for anti-Scotty stuff. I'm looking for inspiration.

I hope you find something that convinces you to change your mind. Either way, I'm about to go to bed and I'll likely sleep through EoD.

I'd recommend you all stop looking at inactives so actively. Yes, it is likely that there are some among them, but there's not enough to work with to prevent those lynches from coming down to sheer probability. Meanwhile, the active scum are playing a very good game keeping your eyes off them.

I'd also recommend having a look at any players yet to make a decision as to my alignment. I've been a major point of interest since EoD2. Anybody who has yet to come to a decision on that front reeks of disassociation and scumminess. As fate would have it, ika fits this category. I'm sure he's not the only one.

[Prisoner 509378]

I just tried out a new "gun-to-head" kind of thing on my own.

Instead of asking myself to make an instant gut read, I asked "for this player, have I ever at any moment of this game felt a post looked like a town post?"

I answered "No" to five of them:

Black Rock
chaindeath
Mongconus
Scotty
Turnip Head

That means I have ommitted Quin and Boomrique. I'm not sure if this is evidence that I am simply overthinking the scenario, or if it's an intuition that our general direction as a group right now needs to shift.

[S~V~S]

@Indi, no worries re tons o'posts. When you catch up at odd hours, like bea does, it happens.

And I o the same thing, the other night I actually woke up as I was falling asleep becasue I had a thought on a game, the Arkham one

Something about all of that last night is nagging at me, I am not sure what it is. That whole thing was fairly illuminating last night, and I think it needs thinking on for me rather than commenting on at this point.

One thing I will say, though, is that I see that Silver has noticed ikas manipulative posts. From where I am sitting, I think most of his posts are fairly manipulative as it regards her. I found that one post that he is rolling on the ground apologizing for to be the LEAST manipulative, tbh. That fawning element was missing.

If he's bad, you should be able to clear me. You said yourself that there's no way I would bus a teammate. I genuinely think ika is scum.

I find this hard to believe. You may not WANT to bus a teammate, but it is not always your choice. You all decide together. If you mean you won't bus a teammate against their will, yeah, I don't so that either. Like, for instance, if Fuzz was my teammate, and he was getting a lot of sudden suspicion, I would not want to lynch him either, especially if he was fighting it. I have had teammates come into the chat and ask us not to bus them even when it would make us look bad.

My whole perspective on the Fuzz lynch would be very different if he had had the most votes.

Linki Happy AM 509378

I am off to work, have fun.

That only makes sense assuming the person doing the bussing jumped on the teammate later on. I was the first to establish ika as a major lynch candidate. Yes, Sloonei voted him before I did, but he let that go straight away and I still pursued it. Making someone who otherwise would not be seen as suspicious into a major lynch candidate goes beyond bussing.

I am not talking about when you voted, I am talking about your posts during the last hour of the day, while the Fuzzwagon was forming. Had you just left your vote where it was and said nothing about the Fuzzwagon, I would never have thought you suspish. It was the posts you made during the wagon.

[S~V~S]

An alternative perspective of Black Rock:

Spoiler: show

I am mostly caught up. I'm going to put a vote om Turnip Head for now. I don't have a strong suspicion for anyone at the moment but I don't like a Turnip that's forgettable.

To be without strong suspicions on Day 1 is understandable, but this strikes me as a terribly easy vote -- and the reasoning is questionable. In games I've played with Turnip Head, his visibility has sometimes been low as a townie. Black Rock knows him better than I do, but it's an uninspired use of her final D1 vote.

Spoiler: show

I don't like this huge bandwagon on gleam, espacilly since nobody has ever actually explained their suspicion of him, or if they have I don't remember it.

I've got a slight mafia gut read on Wilgy.

Also I find it odd how quite Zebra/LC seem to be this game.

I agree with this. I am mostly caught up and I really don't understand how Gleam has so many votes so early in the day. I understand votes are changeable but with this level it's making a statement and I don't understand the case.

This was on Day 2. To this point Black Rock had not found her footing and her reads on people were either unstated or unclear. She stood in defense of gleam, the eventual town flip, based on reasoning that can only be guessed. This may have been a credit-grab prior to a projected D2 lynch of gleam (he was lynched later).

Spoiler: show

The point of that post was, I can barely tell you two apart. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

This was in reference to Silverwolf and ika. The observation is accurate -- they can be hard to distinguish at a glance because their avatars are so similar. However, I don't know what BR was implying with the highlighted text. The avatar similarity has no bearing on the roles they received in this Mafia game, so what's the point?

Spoiler: show

I really don't want to trudge through old games to find specific posts, but it's true.

There are multiple reasons I am not as aggressive as I was last year. In terms of time, I've been hosting for six months. I also have a new profitable hobby in fantasy NBA, which takes a great deal of time and research to stay profitable.

In terms of Mafia, though, I started trying to dial back as far back as Death Note, when I was almost certain FZ. was bad and would not relent in hunting her down. It was a terrible blow when I realized how much time and effort I wasted contributing to my own loss. That made me begin to reevaluate my approach.

One big thing for me recently was Lost Again, in which I couldn't imagine Bullzeye being bad and argued against his lynch. S~V~S successfully got him lynched and won us the game. If I had my way, we would have Lost. Again.

Another major reason I'll just mention, without going into it, is that our site is becoming too confrontational for some people, and I'm trying to make a conscious effort to avoid contributing to that. I know I'm not the only one.

If I get lynched because I'm not being aggressive, oh well.

I was wondering why you were getting votes then I read this post. Even with you saying you are trying to be less aggressive I still expect something else other then this.

At first this post by BR was something that I think influenced my prior baddie read on Epignosis. It looked to me like she was making an intuitive read that might have real grounding in her experience playing with him, because in my time playing with her she has been an intuitive type of player. However, I now question her motives for making this post, because she never offered any kind of follow-up to this. Her only read-relevant reference to Epignosis after that was this:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis had voted for me based on very little evidence(the steering of the thread) and that pinged me. He has exhibited civ behavior lately though, so Im neutral on him now.

Nerolunar

Am I exhibiting civilian behavior now?

This post does make me feel more comfortable with you.

She got back on his good side based on I don't know what. I don't know why Epi's vote for Nerolunar, or his FEB statement afterword, should make any significant difference to Black Rock in her read on him. I suspect she may have been throwing in subtle support to the anti-Epi climate of the thread with her prior gripe, and once it was dissipating she backed away. As a baddie, maintaining a hard stance against a town Epignosis is akin to poking a hornet's nest. Maybe BR aborted the mission.

Spoiler: show

I don't like that Epignosis has 3 votes. I don't like it one bit

Sloonei is supatowning, which means he's either one of our most valuable assets or an undercover cop Only time will tell I suppose. He defended his Nerolunar read really well, but I don't like that he's criticizing Epignosis for not agreeing with his read, as if Nero's civvieness is obvious.

I don't really know who I want to vote for. I'm not a fan of any of the major wagons but don't have strong baddie reads on anyone.

That's surprising. You usually have more going on by now.

Shade.

Spoiler: show

Wow, I missed a lot. His flip changes my opinion on TH. I will go back and read how this all came about.

At least she was willing to develop her anti-TH stance in the face of the Fuzz baddie flip. However, she did so immediately before she had even "gone back and read how this all came about". It's as though she knew what she had to do with her TH read before she actually investigated the course of the CFD, which would imply the development was calculated.

Spoiler: show

Also I would say it is also blatantly obvious why Matt has completely changed his view on me.

He's a cop?

You are no fun.

Are you a cop? I hear cops are no fun.

Spoiler: show

Black Rock do you have any thoughts on Scotty?

No.

He's less of a force this game but I don't know if he'd act like that as a baddie. I feel the same way about you.

I guess that was thoughts.

Scotty gets a pass, TH doesn't. She feels the same way about both.

Spoiler: show

I just did a read of Quin.

He's a cop.

Hey Quin, what is your opinion of sig? Straight up.

I was just thinking the same thing. Some of his posts are pinging me quite a bit.

Okay.

Spoiler: show

Long Con is bad y'all

No, but I am getting pretty sure about you TH.

LC is playing a pretty civ game and you should know that.

Why should TH know that LC is playing a "pretty civ game"?

---------------

She's been gliding UTR and I think deserves more scrutiny. More suspicious to me than before.

I am seeing this more from a playing Mafia with her forever stand point. She & TH have a friendly "need to know where each other stands" rivalry. If either of them is not sure of a stance on the other, they will put poke votes on each other. Meld with me here, 509378.

[S~V~S]

OK, that needs to be fixed, sorry.

[Prisoner 509378]

I am seeing this more from a playing Mafia with her forever stand point. She & TH have a friendly "need to know where each other stands" rivalry. If either of them is not sure of a stance on the other, they will put poke votes on each other. Meld with me here, 509378.

How do you react to her treatment of Epi?

[S~V~S]

I think you may be reading more into it than she meant. You expect a certain level of behavior from certain people, and Epi plays each game a bit differently, but he is generally aggressive. I was not sure of him until more recently myself. He seems more like his "Go to hell" snarky self, less tentative. Kinda like the Nerolunar vote post she quoted.

[Prisoner 509378]

I think I have gotten my brain swirling about too much and need to step away and collect myself.

If the lynch ended right now and I had total control over who it'd be, I'd kill Boomrique.

[thellama73]

Tonight's just been an emotional whirlwind for Silverwolf, huh?

Make your next post a good one. Numbers.

I don't understand the question. "Numbers." is not a sentence.

[Soneji]

A lot of posts devoted to talking about a mechanic that only matters to endgame numbers for the mafia(with a chance to cancel out naturally), that only could slightly assist the cops in finding the Dons, who to our knowledge have no means of harming them. The question now is to look towards Wilgy who started it or DDL who went full on with it, claimed it made Wilgy likely town and took way too long to acknowledge it as a distraction to actual scumhunting.

Dragon D Luffy

I decided to re-ISO Soneji cuz I couldn't figure out why I thought he was scummy and this is the only thing I could find. All game Soneji has been voting ika or Draconus. Suddenly, jumps on Dragon here with a reasoning that applies to a lot of people-I mean, a lot of people were discussing the traitor mechanic early game. Why jump on Dragon for it? Is it because so many other were and it's easy to sheep and get a mislynch off?

I'm not sure what kind of twist you're going for. There is no suddenly for this to apply to, it was my first post in the game, somewhat early on day 1. I explained in the very post you are quoting why I chose DDL over others, it was him and Wilgy that really spearheaded that line of discussion. His call on Wilgy likely being town was potential buddying. At the time, there really wasn't much else to go off of since the traitor talk had dominated so much early discussion.

I never sheep Silverwolf. My vote may be on the same player as others, my reasons my even by fairly similar to theirs but they are always my own. My username on the other site I play mafia is WolfPrinceKiba, lone wolf of NF. I despise sheeple.

[Nerolunar]

As I will be out partying until tomorrow afternoon I won´t be active until then (or later, depends on the severity of my hangover). It sucks that I won´t be around closer till EoD so Im just going to keep my vote where it is. See you guys

[Soneji]

Somethings been rather bothering me about the Ika slip and I think I figured out what it was. It really doesn't read like a slip. When I've encountered slips, they're based in role speculation that goes beyond a townies ability to guess specific workings of a role/ability or they manifest based on frustration/anger/demoralization from mafia actions failing or them getting cornered in-thread. In a recent game on NF, we caught someone on a knowledge slip based on his talk of a mafia multi-kill gone wrong(only killed one player when it had the potential to kill three), with his frustration coming out in the form of suggesting specific mechanics of the ability that had no firm basis just from the way it happened in the write-up.

I've never seen someone slip by straight up saying that the target of a failed mafia kill(arrest) was a specific player, not without them being able to claim tracker/watcher.(rarely even then). If it wasn't a slip though it was intentional, probably in the hopes that someone else could off Sloonei. If Ika flips scum, it would basically confirm Sloonei town. There is a mountain of evidence on Ika, we just need to finally push this lynch through.

Ika

[indiglo]

I have nagging doubts about Scotty, and about lynching you. If you're an evil baddie then you're doing a fantastic job of conveying an earnest tone every time you're pressed. I'm looking through your posts for anti-Scotty stuff. I'm looking for inspiration.

I hope you find something that convinces you to change your mind. Either way, I'm about to go to bed and I'll likely sleep through EoD.

I'd recommend you all stop looking at inactives so actively. Yes, it is likely that there are some among them, but there's not enough to work with to prevent those lynches from coming down to sheer probability. Meanwhile, the active scum are playing a very good game keeping your eyes off them.

I'd also recommend having a look at any players yet to make a decision as to my alignment. I've been a major point of interest since EoD2. Anybody who has yet to come to a decision on that front reeks of disassociation and scumminess. As fate would have it, ika fits this category. I'm sure he's not the only one.

Does this read odd to anybody else? Or have I lost my mind?

I don't want another mislynch. Numbers being what they are, and with the cops being able to sometimes take out 3 players a night, we need to lynch cops, period. So I don't want to jump on things the way that I have - because I have been wrong multiple times in this game in so doing.

Linki~

[Turnip Head]

I've only skimmed the last few pages, hopefully I'll have time to read through thoroughly. I see Boomslang got like 7 GTH mafia reads and only has one vote, sup with that? Out of the people with votes I'm leaning towards going with ika. I tend to take SO's reads on each other pretty seriously; Epi/Elo, BR/LC, Zombarella/Snowman come to mind immediately ... the one hiccup here is something that Epi mentioned, ika would have had to use extra votes on a teammate Day 2 if he's bad. And maybe that's what he did, the civ cred could be inifinite, but it gives me pause. I don't know how to read him but he definitely appealed emotionally to Silverwolf... not sure if that's a baddie trait or a civ one in this instance but I'm leaning towards thinking it's shady.

Soneji is getting more involved. There was a chaindeath post that made me feel better about him. I feel better about Epi than I have all game.

Still not sure where I stand on BR. I agree with whoever mentioned that she did a quick turnaround on me after Day 2, only to just as quickly revert back to her baddie read on me. She mentioned that this was due to a post of mine that she interpreted as a joke, so idk... I do feel like she's genuinely trying to read my alignment, but I'd like her to explain how she so quickly changed her mind on me due to Day 2, and why that read didn't hold simply because of that one post she quoted.

[Sloonei]

Somethings been rather bothering me about the Ika slip and I think I figured out what it was. It really doesn't read like a slip. When I've encountered slips, they're based in role speculation that goes beyond a townies ability to guess specific workings of a role/ability or they manifest based on frustration/anger/demoralization from mafia actions failing or them getting cornered in-thread. In a recent game on NF, we caught someone on a knowledge slip based on his talk of a mafia multi-kill gone wrong(only killed one player when it had the potential to kill three), with his frustration coming out in the form of suggesting specific mechanics of the ability that had no firm basis just from the way it happened in the write-up.

I've never seen someone slip by straight up saying that the target of a failed mafia kill(arrest) was a specific player, not without them being able to claim tracker/watcher.(rarely even then). If it wasn't a slip though it was intentional, probably in the hopes that someone else could off Sloonei. If Ika flips scum, it would basically confirm Sloonei town. There is a mountain of evidence on Ika, we just need to finally push this lynch through.

Ika

I think it doesn't look like a slip because it wasn't a slip, or anything of the sort.

[Prisoner 509378]

Sloonei, what is your stance on ika right now?

[Turnip Head]

I've been trying to wrap my head around why ika would have made the post about Sloonei. As town, it kind of makes sense, if he thinks Sloonei is from the opposing family... calling out a target for his Don and hitman, but there exists the possibility that Sloonei is from the same family as ika, so idk. As a cop it makes sense, if Sloonei was the true target and he can't get rid of him otherwise. As a cop, it could also be some sort of gambit where Sloonei wasn't the target, isn't the Don, and he thought maybe saying something so ridiculous might get Sloonei to think he's on the up and up.

At the end of the day I have no idea what ika was thinking with that post

[Sloonei]

Boomslang remains my top choice for today but I moved my vote to Quin because no one else was biting. I'll move it back there for encouragement. Boomslang. But Quin is a solid second option.
I don't know who I'd put third. If I don't have to work tonight I'll do some serious ISO business.

[Sloonei]

Sloonei, what is your stance on ika right now?

with a little bit of and a healthy amount of mixed in. I'm leaning town at the moment because everything he's been has been too odd. If he's bad I feel like he'd make more of an effort not to be a lightning rod. But I've never seen anything like his playstyle before. It's mesmerizing.

[Sloonei]

I've been trying to wrap my head around why ika would have made the post about Sloonei. As town, it kind of makes sense, if he thinks Sloonei is from the opposing family... calling out a target for his Don and hitman, but there exists the possibility that Sloonei is from the same family as ika, so idk. As a cop it makes sense, if Sloonei was the true target and he can't get rid of him otherwise. As a cop, it could also be some sort of gambit where Sloonei wasn't the target, isn't the Don, and he thought maybe saying something so ridiculous might get Sloonei to think he's on the up and up.

At the end of the day I have no idea what ika was thinking with that post

I think he's genuinely just a player who likes to speculate about roles when he's a townie.

Except he hasn't done any of that since then.

[Scotty]

Quin I'm looking over some stuff before the infamous day 2 fuzz shakedown. Because we all know that was sketch. Is there anything else?


Day 1:
his major suspicion out the gate is ika, and he votes there early as his "temporary vote". His reasoning is that ika swooped in with an unjustified vote in the midst of a discussion about the Don and traitors, and Quin didn't like that. This ika vote makes sense.

The vote stays on ika until 30 minutes before deadline, when he votes Enrique, after not talking about him at all before then. His next few posts call out Enrique for having gut reads but nothing to back it up. Again, very similar to his ika suspicion. Quin isn't a fan of gut reads. Remind me not to consult him when my stomach hurts.

Night 1:
He launches a case against me concerning Tranq's demise because I was Tranq's only detractor to that point. Planting dat seed.

Day 2:
Fuzz conjectures about the possibility of a different place for those arrested because the Warden oversees the prisoners. Then Quin comes in 2 posts later with:

I had thought that arrested players get put into another thread which consists of the jailmates and probably the warden. Maybe they have some sort of goal to achieve in there?

He sure called it. Now, a civ could have predicted this sure, but to the T? A goal to achieve?

He votes me out the gate because I didn't justify why I found Tranq suspicious and he's holding on to the link between me and Tranq getting NK'd like a poorly trained puppy that refuses to drop the squeaky toy.
Even after I point him towards the justification that he conveniently missed, he's still harping on the Tranq connection.

Spoiler: show

Catching up.

I see a ika wagon growing faster than I can keep up.

WIll try to get why. Personally I'm not feeling it very much.

.
Ika isn't giving anyone anything to work with. It's pretty much the same thing as I saw in Enrique. I don't like seeing accusations and votes thrown around where there is nothing of value to justify it. I get that he said at one point that he's a 'gut player' but that's not an excuse for not backing up your gut reads with something tangible.

He's made quite a few really arrogant posts that we could do without as well, but I feel like that might be going into a more personal territory.

Again, linking ika and Enrique because of lack of gut read. Vote is still on me for now.

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Idk, but for some reason I want to lynch both Ika and Wolf.

Is it too late to start another bandwagon?

I'll be returning to my vote on ika. I'm still pretty determined for Scotty but nobody seems to agree, so I'll come back to him at another point.

back to ika, because it's gaining traction.

Spoiler: show

Catching up.

I see a ika wagon growing faster than I can keep up.

WIll try to get why. Personally I'm not feeling it very much.

Ika isn't giving anyone anything to work with. It's pretty much the same thing as I saw in Enrique. I don't like seeing accusations and votes thrown around where there is nothing of value to justify it. I get that he said at one point that he's a 'gut player' but that's not an excuse for not backing up your gut reads with something tangible.

He's made quite a few really arrogant posts that we could do without as well, but I feel like that might be going into a more personal territory.

well 3 things (kinda 2):

1) when i point things out they tend to be so weak i get clled scum for it
2) the points are weak so scums can easily look more town in a side by side dicussion, silver can atone to that persoanlly

I'll ignore the whole drama aspect of this because it's not relevant and it's only going to derail things.

If you think your reads are weak, you should think about what gaps are missing in your knowledge. Ask counter-questions, make assumptions. Nobody knows anything for sure, so all reads, really, are weak. It's how you justify it that gives it power.

Calling out ika for not justifying votes. "It's how you justify [reads] that gives [the reads] power."
So essentially, he's justifying his read of ika (and marginally, Enrique) on account of ika not justifying his reads. Got it.

Spoiler: show

Depending on how SVS responds to my earilier questions, my vote today seems like it will be coming down to her, Epignosis, or ika.

I actually disagree with you on all 3 of these vote prospects. I haven't seen anything from SVS yet that reads scummy, Epi's response to my questions has satisfied me for now, and I won't be voting ika because I think it's mean.



I was actually leaning towards perhaps a Matt vote, but then he posted this:

'Sides Golden, Quin is reading funny to me. Can't put my finger on it. Perhaps an ISO is in order!

And actually Quin read funny to me too. I just ISO'd (oh man, it feels weird to type that and not say I did a Quin re-read) and something felt funny. He kind of jumped around from suspicion to suspicion, not really holding on to any of them, and deciding to change his vote when his previous suspicion didn't gain any traction. Quin, I'm not sure have a concrete question to ask you, but I'd like to hear anything you can provide as to your thinking or developing of suspicions.

Then as I think about it, I wonder if my weirdness meter is actually tweaked because you changed your vote so many times. And that all goes back to my old school ways - one vote and you're done for the day. And I gather that with changeable votes, it seems to be encouraged to move them as many times as you can, making your first few changes null and void. In that case, my not voting yet may look strange to someone used to changeable votes.


I did notice Quin mentioned Enrique, so I'm happy to check there to see if I see what Quin saw. Ah, there I do have my first concrete question for you - How are you feeling about Enrique now? And what changed/affected your mind?

I also think it's a little strange to see the Tranq NA (Night Arrest) and then immediately assume Scotty did it and is a cop, and try to push that idea. Maybe it seems a little opportunistic? Do you still believe that to be the case Quin? (That Scotty NA'd Tranq, that is.)



Planning to look over Golden's posts now to see if anything feels funny. Also cannot wait to see how much linki there will be...

Yep, tons. Will post then read.

I feel as though all of my votes thus far have been pretty well reasoned. With ika on Day 1, I made it clear that I found the initial vote for Silverwolf was suspicious, given the context of the whole traitor/don situation, but I did take Silverwolfs word for it that it was not atypical behaviour for him. My current vote is all about his tight-lippedness. Withholding information like this isn't a town-move.

I am not entirely sure how I think about Enrique, now. His actions in the thread were very fishy to me, from his vote to his justifications, but the way he responded to me when I questioned him felt good to me. I think if I ran out of options I'd return to him, but there are currently better candidates out there at the moment.

I do still have that suspicion for Scotty. People keep saying they disagree, but nobody is presenting any viable alternatives. I can't agree with things like 'too opportunistic' or 'too convenient'. There is a reason why Tranq was the target over somebody else, y'no? I've changed my vote from him on account of this, but I am still adamant on the fact that I believe him to be a good lynch. If you wonder why I'm voting ika instead of Scotty, I'd answer that it's because I don't support a gleam lynch, and I am sufficiently suspicious of ika to warrant hopping on a bandwagon. Well, since Sloonei jumped off I guess that means I'm leading it?

Continues to feel his votes are justified. Backs off on Enrique. See, he came down pretty hard on Enrique at the end of day 1, but here he just slaps him on the back of the wrist, and moves on to his biggest suspicion yet again: me.

--------

If Enrique/Boomslang is bad, Quin is a great candidate. Enrique was in no danger of getting lynched D1, and even though Quin keeps him in the periphery of his suspicions, he doubles back with "I'm feeling better about him" on day 2. How convenient. But no matter what I said or how i justified my Tranq vote, he keeps pushing the envelope. Quin continues to read Enrislang as town to this day.

Ika may very well be an outlier in this argument. Quin has kept ika at the forefront with me and if ika were to turn up bad, I regret to say Quin would look good for it. For Quin to vote ika on multiple days, and out of the gate on day 1, and even *pushing* for an ika train on day 2, that's a pretty ballsy move for a scum to make. I will give him that I wouldn't conceive him railroading ika so early and often if ika was scum. So there's that. I was mistaken in my last post.

But I don't think ika should be lynched right now. There's too many unknowns with ika, when I think Quin looks much more suspicious alongside Enrique going back to the Fuzz lynch.

I would very much not like to mislynch today, but this is the guy I have felt strongest about for a while.

[Scotty]

Quin is sure about ika.
I am sure about Quin.
We are both sure about each other.

Most the town is sure about Boomslang. I would be willing to vote there today should you all have a crisis trusting one of me or Quin.

[Tangrowth]

OK, that needs to be fixed, sorry.

Fixed.

[Prisoner 509378]

I never saw that Quin post predicting the Warden function. Lemme find it for context.

[Prisoner 509378]

No nevermind, all of this is clearly implied in the Warden's role, and once the word "arrest" came out apart from "dead", it's a very easy conclusion to draw.

I had thought that arrested players get put into another thread which consists of the jailmates and probably the warden. Maybe they have some sort of goal to achieve in there?

linki: Well, I am open to hearing what you have to say when you are able to catch up.

Scotty, I think I might agree with Quin about you. Much of what you just referenced is dependent upon a Boomrique mafia flip which does not exist right now -- suggesting you should be pursuing a lynch of Boom first and not Quin. Moreover, your attacks on his treatment of ika don't make sense.

There is nothing illogical about this:

Calling out ika for not justifying votes. "It's how you justify [reads] that gives [the reads] power."
So essentially, he's justifying his read of ika (and marginally, Enrique) on account of ika not justifying his reads. Got it.

[sig]

The issue I see about a Boom lynch is that he is inactive. Yes he could be mafia, but I think it would be better to target an active mafia.

I looked over Ika's slip as and his defense. I think he actually did make a slip. While rare they do occasionally happen. I'm very confident that if we lynch Ika we will catch a scum.

[sig]

as well as his* I have no idea why I wrote and.

[Prisoner 509378]

I have to place my final vote very soon, I'm probably not going to be here for EOD. I'm thinking of just settling for the ika lynch, because he makes no sense at all and my trepidation about lynching him is based on an emotional read (not my strength) that his girlfriend doesn't even agree with.

I seriously saw him as being so head-over-heels for SW that he wasn't even capable of emotionally manipulating her (I mean no offense or insult here at all, it's just the way I was reading it). She doesn't agree with that, and she knows him better than I do.

[Black Rock]

I've only skimmed the last few pages, hopefully I'll have time to read through thoroughly. I see Boomslang got like 7 GTH mafia reads and only has one vote, sup with that? Out of the people with votes I'm leaning towards going with ika. I tend to take SO's reads on each other pretty seriously; Epi/Elo, BR/LC, Zombarella/Snowman come to mind immediately ... the one hiccup here is something that Epi mentioned, ika would have had to use extra votes on a teammate Day 2 if he's bad. And maybe that's what he did, the civ cred could be inifinite, but it gives me pause. I don't know how to read him but he definitely appealed emotionally to Silverwolf... not sure if that's a baddie trait or a civ one in this instance but I'm leaning towards thinking it's shady.

Soneji is getting more involved. There was a chaindeath post that made me feel better about him. I feel better about Epi than I have all game.

Still not sure where I stand on BR. I agree with whoever mentioned that she did a quick turnaround on me after Day 2, only to just as quickly revert back to her baddie read on me. She mentioned that this was due to a post of mine that she interpreted as a joke, so idk... I do feel like she's genuinely trying to read my alignment, but I'd like her to explain how she so quickly changed her mind on me due to Day 2, and why that read didn't hold simply because of that one post she quoted.

Well I haven't even skimmed things. Unless I feel I need to I am moving forward from here.

I did do a moment of turnaround with you because of how that lynch went. Your posts still bugged me so I couldn't drop it. I have since moved forward, it doesn't mean I'm done with you I'm just more suspicious of Quin at this point and that's where I'm dropping my vote. I'm surprised you're not sure of me, you should be. You know me. I know you do. You either haven't been paying attention or you are bad. That's my opinion. I'm an easy lynch, I always am. I feel like this post is laying ground work if the thread starts leaning that way. If you are good, look at my opinions. There aren't many, but they are sincere.

[Prisoner 509378]

Actually meh, I'm going to leave my vote where it is for now and try my best to at least pop in on my phone later. I can't guarantee it, but I'll try. I want to see how things develop before I join a lynch that I don't feel great about.

[Scotty]

The issue I see about a Boom lynch is that he is inactive. Yes he could be mafia, but I think it would be better to target an active mafia.

I looked over Ika's slip as and his defense. I think he actually did make a slip. While rare they do occasionally happen. I'm very confident that if we lynch Ika we will catch a scum.

Not true. I just saw Boom's name pop up on the users browsing this forum last night.

Him not deciding to post is not inactive.

[sig]

The issue I see about a Boom lynch is that he is inactive. Yes he could be mafia, but I think it would be better to target an active mafia.

I looked over Ika's slip as and his defense. I think he actually did make a slip. While rare they do occasionally happen. I'm very confident that if we lynch Ika we will catch a scum.

Not true. I just saw Boom's name pop up on the users browsing this forum last night.

Him not deciding to post is not inactive.

Oh I see, last I checked his profile a few days ago he hadn't logged on. I'll check this out. If he has been online yet hasn't posted I'd be much more willing to lynch him.

[Turnip Head]

@BR I'm not laying groundwork for anything, don't be so paranoid :P I admit I haven't been paying great attention recently, but what specifically did I miss?

[Scotty]

No nevermind, all of this is clearly implied in the Warden's role, and once the word "arrest" came out apart from "dead", it's a very easy conclusion to draw.

I had thought that arrested players get put into another thread which consists of the jailmates and probably the warden. Maybe they have some sort of goal to achieve in there?

linki: Well, I am open to hearing what you have to say when you are able to catch up.

Scotty, I think I might agree with Quin about you. Much of what you just referenced is dependent upon a Boomrique mafia flip which does not exist right now -- suggesting you should be pursuing a lynch of Boom first and not Quin. Moreover, your attacks on his treatment of ika don't make sense.

There is nothing illogical about this:

Calling out ika for not justifying votes. "It's how you justify [reads] that gives [the reads] power."
So essentially, he's justifying his read of ika (and marginally, Enrique) on account of ika not justifying his reads. Got it.

Much of what Quin is suggesting is based off of an ika flip. So here we are.

I also agree that Quin's ika suspicion is founded and has looked good for him, should ika flip bad.

[Scotty]

I think that Boom flipping bad actually makes Quin look worse, which is what I've been trying to paint for you all for a while now, so I'm down with a Boom lynch

[Boomslang]

Save my butt, generate intel that's more useful to a wider swath of players. *votes ika*

[Sloonei]

Save my butt, generate intel that's more useful to a wider swath of players. *votes ika*

Help us generate intel by saying more things, if you can please and thank you.

[sig]

Save my butt, generate intel that's more useful to a wider swath of players. *votes ika*

Could you give a few reads or something for us to go on?

[S~V~S]

I think that Boom flipping bad actually makes Quin look worse, which is what I've been trying to paint for you all for a while now, so I'm down with a Boom lynch

Depending on how the poll looks when I get home in about 3.5 hours, I would be willing to do this as well. I think he is bad, too.

[indiglo]

Running through! ATM, I am going to drop my vote on Boomrique. At this point, I think I would probably be ok with any of the top candidates, because I am paranoid as hell and not 100% certain about any of them. I could pretty well talk myself into or out of voting each of them, which does not help. So, I am open to changing, if we get some discussion going later today and make a consensus.

[Prisoner 509378]

At least the Boomslang wagon is currently populated by consensus town reads, short maybe of Scotty.

[Scotty]

Hey Quin! Let's team up and both vote Boom today! Ya dig?

[Scotty]

At least the Boomslang wagon is currently populated by consensus town reads, short maybe of Scotty.

No shorter than yesterday, unless I've grown!

[Prisoner 509378]

I only see only one strong town read each on the ika and Quin wagons. If there's mislynch jollies being gotten on, those look like the spots.

[Sloonei]

My efforts to get my shift covered tonight at work have turned up fruitless, so here's some ISO action before I have to go.

Starting with Turnip Head because it's about time I tried to get a solid read on him.

Whatup my glip glops!

Starts off with an outrageously offensive greeting. Despicable.

The following are a few in a bunch of early posts that I really liked and agreed with strongly at the time. For the first few days it seemed Turnip Head and I were on the exact same wavelength.

Spoiler: show

Both Dons are immune to police actions, so I'm not sure we'd be accomplishing enough for such an intricate plan. The only protection the Dons really need is from each other. As far as the traitors go, I think I'll take my chances that my Don is smarter than the other Don

Changeable votes is a valuable resource, though not everyone uses it. But I don't think we should discourage it.

Actually that raises a question: how the hell are the cops supposed to get rid of the dons?

Because having most of their famiglias ovote for them is possible but not realiable.

Are we to assume the cops win if only the Dons are left?

Who cares? Are you some kind of police sympathizer?

I don't like this huge bandwagon on gleam, espacilly since nobody has ever actually explained their suspicion of him, or if they have I don't remember it.

I've got a slight mafia gut read on Wilgy.

Also I find it odd how quite Zebra/LC seem to be this game.

I agree with this. I am mostly caught up and I really don't understand how Gleam has so many votes so early in the day. I understand votes are changeable but with this level it's making a statement and I don't understand the case.

This is where I'm at. Scotty's vote seems questionable to me, I haven't looked at the other votes in depth yet. Scotty said he was voting for Gleam "Because", and then when asked to elaborate, he said:

As for me voting gleam: it's mostly a continuation suspicion of my night 1 eyeing of him for being a floppy pancake. But I'm far too lazy to look it up right now. About to enter a poker tournament.

This isn't just. Throwaway vote on a wagon. It's just gut, and he happens to have a bunch of votes piles on as well, so there's that.

So idk, but putting the sixth vote on a wagon more than 24 hours before the lynch deadline, when it doesn't look like a "pressure vote" or like it's furthering the read, well it looks like it's just there. I feel like I can't judge Scotty's motives until the Day is over and I see what else he does with his vote, but right now I feel like he's just gonna keep it parked there until deadline and that feels weird to me for reasons I can't really articulate.

Also making me want to re-evaluate Scotty. I've kind of been overlooking how head-scratchy some of his early votes were.

Lynching ika feels like it's lynching him because we don't understand him. Someone said that they cannot fathom his behavior as town, but can you fathom it as mafia either? To me it looks like ika doesn't give two shits about "behaving like town". I'm liking the energy he's bringing to the thread whether it's typical town behavior or not.

linki @ Llama: Well that's because it's more pleasant when you're around

Turnip has been pumping the breaks on a lot of bandwagons this game. ika and sig are two players he's continually resisted lynching. We don't know either of their alignments yet, but at face value I like this. Scum tend to mostly only engage in fake scum-hunting, not fake town-hunting.

I don't like that Epignosis has 3 votes. I don't like it one bit

Sloonei is supatowning, which means he's either one of our most valuable assets or an undercover cop Only time will tell I suppose. He defended his Nerolunar read really well, but I don't like that he's criticizing Epignosis for not agreeing with his read, as if Nero's civvieness is obvious.

I don't really know who I want to vote for. I'm not a fan of any of the major wagons but don't have strong baddie reads on anyone.

This post I don't like quite as much. For all his activity and prodding prior to this post, he's come up with no strong baddie reads anywhere? His little bit of shade-casting at me also feels uninspired, like he was just saying it for the sake of saying it. I don't remember him hinting at me being suspicious anywhere else, so either he dropped the thought or forgot it there. Or I overlooked/forgot something.

I want to lead a CFD counterwagon because I don't like any of these 3, but I have no idea where to go. My vote is accomplishing nothing but I don't know where else to put it. I really hope Epi doesn't get lynched, I haven't played with him in forever and I'm liking his new approach this game.

Here's the post that kicked off our one little bit of success so far in this game. I stated earlier that I like Turnip's town reading of various players, but I am also able to read his behavior as a cop playing it safe to avoid upsetting anyone. At this point, though, I am still inclined to read Turnip as town though that's not a strong read. My hang up on Turnip's role in the Fuzz lynch has been that he only suggested the idea of a CFD, but he also explicitly states that he has "no idea where to go" with it. In his next post he does offer up Scotty, who seems to be his top suspect at this point.

The following posts are crucial to getting a read on Turnip during the Fuzzy business, IMO:

Why Fuzz? I've got linki up the wazoo

Wow, this is happening

Is a good point about Fuzz not wanting to touch the ika thing, but he did say he'd break the tie and didn't care which way he broke it. That may say something in and of itself though.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Okay Fuzz... I'm doing it....

Because at the moment that I voted Gleam-ika was 5-5. As for why it wasn't Gleam, you're not gonna like my answer, but I honestly didn't care which one got lynched.

Luffy I said I wouldn't touch the ika/Silverwolf situation. I said nothing of lynches except that I wanted to avoid ties.

But I read back and you had a ping on Gleam, you even voted for him earlier. So why don't you care?

I think he looks good here. Not great, but good. These posts and their time stamps suggest that he went back to search for a reason to put his vote on Fuzz, and that he found one. The paranoid part of me also wants to suggest that he could have actually spent some time coordinating things behind the scenes with Fuzz and his other teammates, but there isn't really any evidence to suggest that and for the time I'd say this looks genuine.
However, Turnip kind of disappears for a short time after this and doesn't really say anything else until shortly after the deadline. I have to wonder where he was during those 20 or so minutes. There was still a lot going on in the thread during his absence, and he made a couple of posts implying that he was following along, but made no comments.

I want to make sure that sig, Enrique and the other anti-CFDers get their proper day in court. It's easy to assume they're all baddies caught with their pants down but it almost feels like thats too easy. For all we know the rest of the fuzz weren't even around at EoD.

I like the caution he shows here, but I myself am too cautious to read too much into it at this time. I don't doubt that a scum Turnip Head would think that appearing cautious in the thread is a good way to score townie points. This is basically the crux of my entire lingering suspicion against him. His attitude seems pro-town and occasionally the effort is there, but he seems to be struggling to come up with reads. I have to wonder why this is, and one possibility is that the effort and the attitude are false, and so he lacks the substantive reads that should come with those other things.

Oh sig. Sig sig sig, my dear boy.

I think you might be bad.

I think sig is town. It would have been easy for him to agree with the Fuzz suspicion if bad but he was thinking critically about the CFD and he was wrong. I don't want a witch hunt against the players who were against the CFD... but of them I think Luffy looks the worst for being against it but then jumping on it anyways, but he clearly put a lot of work into analyzing Golden's role in the events, so

I'd like to know what prompted this change of opinion.

Here is an early post against Long Con. Days 3 and 4 are a big blur in my memory. I was not really present for most of those phases. I don't remember anything about how Long Con came to be lynched, but I do remember seeing this post at one time and feeling a vague sense of disagreement with it. I know that's meaningless now, but after Turnip has spent so much time defending many of the other main suspects in the thread, this kind of feels like a weak suspect to come up with.

Long Con is bad y'all

Sig get your butt on this LC wagon!

All that caution he's been displaying all game long has suddenly gone out the window. Turnip Head has turned into zebra and is just telling others to hop on his bandwagon.

However I like this post in the midst of some lengthy exchanges with a few players. He kind of gets himself back on track, and the tone reads as honest and believable to me. Leading a lynch of a townie is often a confidence-shaker.

Turnip had generated a solid amount of content since then, though he's also been here only sporadically the last few days. He was easily persuaded to vote for Gleam the day he got lynched, but then so was I and so were lots of other people. Gleam looked bad. I am not really sure where Turnip's thoughts are now. It would be cool if he could give us a rainbow or something. In this post he suggests he might vote for ika and also maybe suggests some degree of willingness about Boomslang? I'm not sure. There's a lot of uncertainty in Turnip Head's game at this point and I'd have an easier time reading him if he was having an easier time reading the thread.

I feel myself leaning more town on Turnip after this ISO than I was before, but not overwhelmingly so.

[Epignosis]

There isn't a single vote on ika that makes a damn bit of sense.

[Sloonei]

There isn't a single vote on ika that makes a damn bit of sense.

Nothing about ika makes a damn bit of sense.

[Turnip Head]

Save my butt, generate intel that's more useful to a wider swath of players. *votes ika*

Damn does this post ping me something fierce.