[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Quin]

How about the list?

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

Spoiler: show

I'm not talking just votes. I'm talking suspicion in general. This marks three days of "sig's bad" to "nah, not going to vote sig today." If sig is bad, I'm going to tear this thread apart looking for the people who kept their kid gloves on and why.

Time permitting.

Spoken like a man who knows sig's alignment already and is preemptively setting up fisticuffs after what he thought would be a looming lynch.

He's on Boomslang's team because he held his vote on unlynchables (sig and chain) throughout Day 6 and only moved to Boomslang after the ika wagon had swelled to its apex.

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

[Sloonei]

How about the list?

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

Spoiler: show

I'm not talking just votes. I'm talking suspicion in general. This marks three days of "sig's bad" to "nah, not going to vote sig today." If sig is bad, I'm going to tear this thread apart looking for the people who kept their kid gloves on and why.

Time permitting.

Spoken like a man who knows sig's alignment already and is preemptively setting up fisticuffs after what he thought would be a looming lynch.

He's on Boomslang's team because he held his vote on unlynchables (sig and chain) throughout Day 6 and only moved to Boomslang after the ika wagon had swelled to its apex.

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

Could you pull up the quotes you are referencing?

[Prisoner 509378]

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

I'm not quite sure what you're implying here. If they had civilian BTSC then why would Wilgy have come after him with claws out? I might just be misunderstanding.

[indiglo]

@ Prisoner - Thanks! I'll continue stewing, I actually had Epi on my Pool List, and then took him off last minute while WIFOMing myself. I've gone back and forth on him all game, and am not opposed to the idea of voting him.


For the time being, I'm going to go ahead and put my vote on *TH* as well. I am open to discussion, and agree with the idea of sticking together. Fortunately, we have 48 hours. This game is not lost yet, in fact, after last night phase, I really felt like it had pretty much cracked wide open. I am still of that opinion. (Cops stop laughing if that is not even close to true. )


Also, RIP SW You probably cannot see this now, but I am sorry. And I will have no problem repeating that to you at Game's End, or if/when you come back from the Slamma.


I would also like to mention, since probably no one here knows this or is aware of it, I do not take trusting SVS lightly. And I doubt she takes trusting me lightly either. Just to say that. We have a lot of water under that bridge, so I don't know why I felt the need to say that, but just know that trusting her is not something I take lightly at ALL, and I do trust her this game.



Linkapalooza!!!! Posting, then reading...

[Quin]

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

I'm not quite sure what you're implying here. If they had civilian BTSC then why would Wilgy have come after him with claws out? I might just be misunderstanding.

I'll find them, but I want to finish the ISO first. I'm saying that I think Epi slipped and tried to claim he had BTSC with Wilgy. Wilgy, being the crew would know who is on his team and Epi was not one of them. That's the summary of my argument, I think. I'll go more in depth.

[Prisoner 509378]

Fortunately, we have 48 hours.

Precisely. Regardless of where the final lynch goes, I intend to use this time wisely.

[indiglo]

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

I'm not quite sure what you're implying here. If they had civilian BTSC then why would Wilgy have come after him with claws out? I might just be misunderstanding.

I'll find them, but I want to finish the ISO first. I'm saying that I think Epi slipped and tried to claim he had BTSC with Wilgy. Wilgy, being the crew would know who is on his team and Epi was not one of them. That's the summary of my argument, I think. I'll go more in depth.

You finish ISOing. I'll go see if I can find it.

[Sloonei]

I'm all for people putting their votes on their top suspects early on in the day phase. I think everyone should be voting early, and the more votes we get the better sense we'll all have of where the consensus is. BUT obviously, as the day phase progresses we'll need to start to consolidate our votes in one place. We just need to find the player we can all agree with.

[indiglo]

Here we go!


March 7

If humans were perfect, this game would be impossible.

I'm perfect. Are you?

Well, I'm sick right now, and I consider that apersonal moral failing, so I guess not.

Who is a cop, Epi? Is it Dragon? (hint: yes)

As of this point, I'd say Wilgy, and if Wilgy is bad, gleam is with him after that wild speculation in defense of Wilgy.

March 8 (before EoD in the game)

Sorry Wilgy. I can't vote for you anymore. Something else came up.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

Go on...

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Uh-huh. Nerolunar. Is the thread being steered? Who is doing the driving?

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Have you figured it out yet?

No. A grammar and spelling manual would do wonders.

i do analize them

Ooooow.

Later on March 8 (after EoD in the game)

indiglo said I bounced back and forth on gleam.

I voted him and asked him to talk. He talked. I moved my vote.

I said gleam gets lynched or killed often early and I didn't want to be a part of that.

I later said if Wilgy is bad, then gleam is too. That's an if-then proposition.

MM says I refused to vote gleam...but part of his post against me is that I voted gleam.

Is that a fair summary of my dealings with gleam?

Was there any "bouncing?"

Part of my post is that you voted gleam, yes. That was the point. You voted for gleam, then later refused to vote for gleam after you moved your vote. You used those words too.

You later offered a scenario where gleam was bad, which relied on DrWilgy also being bad. Why did you later state that you don't understand the six votes on gleam? You offered a reason for gleam being bad. Why did you dismiss others' reasons for him being bad?

I am inferring from this that it is okay for you to suspect gleam, but not okay for others to suspect gleam.

I don't understand the reasons why people think gleam is bad.

And I no longer think Wilgy is bad either.

March 9

@Epignosis, what do you think about Wilgy right now?

I mean, you said you think he's a civ, but what made you change your mind?

Dunno if you have the time to answer this now, but I'll leave the question for when you do.

I won't be voting for him. I don't think it's a good idea to say why.

[Quin]

Spoiler: show

Chaindeath did! He ment to when he posted his last post. balgh repeated words He still feels that Nero is the one to lynch, also he will try to be on when the EoD comes around, if there arnt 10+ pages to catch up on he should be able to be active. He's driving for the next two hours so he'd only have ~45 mins to catch up. See ya'll then.

At this point nero is the only person that chaindeath has created a read on that is backed up by something. It's not very much, but it was enough for me to feel good about chaindeath because we had a common enemy. Now it just feels like a weak argument.

Spoiler: show

Chaindeath would like to thank those who have created rainbow lists and he hopes you all will keep them updated. He feels that ones opinion on others will greatly help his opinion on you. That being said however, He would like to address those who have said they don't trust him or feel suspicious of him:

Why do you feel that way? What makes him seem like a baddie? How can he help show you that he is indeed a civi going for a civi win con?

He hopes it is not merely his post count. Yesterday (in game) he felt like he made a good amount of high content posts (quality over quantity with 300+ posts per day on average, or thereabouts). He even presented his first case in a mafia game with quotes and everything. Its frustrating to see people say He's a low poster when he truly is trying his best to contribute in meaningful ways.

He would like to conclude with his suspicions and his feelings on the game state at this point in time. TH and Scotty is sending some major baddie vibes. Nero still makes me uncomfortable and chaindeath would like to draw attention to him. Llama If he were to make a list you would likely be in the yellow-orange category and Zebra fall in there too.

Sig and quin.... He feels torn with you two. He would like to say you're both town but could not do so with a clear conscience. He is going to say you're town leaning baddie. Hopefuly he will be able to say otherwise by the end of this day phase.

I think he's starting to 'play' now. He's asking questions which I like. Not so much what he's asking, but the fact that he's asking them. TH, zebra, sig, llama and I become a suspicion for chaindeath but he's not saying anything to elaborate. That's a lot of people to suddenly suspect at once. chaindeath is probably the least credible person at this point in time.

Chaindeath doesn't know how he wants to vote... He needs to do it for the day but all of the people with votes on them feel like they could be town. He's going to stick with his guns and vote Nero because he is sure that he's bad.

Spoiler: show

He was also questioned about who will be bad if Sig flips bad, he doesn't know. There are too many options for one person's death to tell for sure on any of them. Long post short of Sig flips bad he's bad if he flips good we as a whole messed up and need to do some looming at those who pushed the vote. It doesn't make them bad but more suspect he supposes.

He's responding to a question I asked him about the followup to a sig lynch. He avoids the question. I do not like this.

Spoiler: show

Nerolunar wrote:
There is a scumrole in the setup that can pose as another role when lynched.

Actually while we are on this topic, I mostly threw shade at Chaindeath at the time. My goal was not to defend LC, but I did notice Chaindeaths behavior. That was my first ping of him - he decided to vote for LC when the only thing LC had posted was his disagreement to the plan that everyone should be voted for, to trigger the traitors. Very weak reasoning from Chaindeath that he didn´t follow up on rubbed me the wrong way and still does.


Why do you hang onto this vote for LC? Chaindeath has said it before but he supposes it bares repeating: Day 1 was buisy for him. He was highly distracted and unable to do much speculation, which is most of what you can do day one. The story hasn't changed and he supposes you are not willing to accept it. He wonders if you would have as much suspicion for him if he had said he used and RNG for the vote.

For some reason, Nero is the only person chaindeath is interested in pursuing as a valid suspect. What happened to Silver, DDL, sig, me, llama, turnip, black rock, zebra? I honestly don't think he's telling the truth about who he does and doesn't suspect. He's never given anything concrete on anybody else. He's essentially just tunneling on Nerolunar.

[indiglo]

I'm all for people putting their votes on their top suspects early on in the day phase. I think everyone should be voting early, and the more votes we get the better sense we'll all have of where the consensus is. BUT obviously, as the day phase progresses we'll need to start to consolidate our votes in one place. We just need to find the player we can all agree with.

Exactly. I haven't been voting this early so far because I haven't felt so certain. We have a good list. We have 48 hours. Let's do it together.

[sig]

ika was the seemer. Cop team:

Epignosis
Boomslang
Turnip Head
sig

bullshit. I FIRST SAID IKA WAS THE SEEMER. I got burned for that and people implied something was up between me and Silver. I voted twice for Ika and pushed his wagon. Which made me scummy. However, know you think he is the scum seemer and I'm his teammate?

Who if not you?

Well there are only three left? Fuzz and Ika so that leaves three if we say he is the seemer. Which would be Epi, Boomslang, and maybe Th not sure on him.

[Prisoner 509378]

If my projections were accurate, we're still on a 3-mislynches-to-LyLo pace. I think town's win-probability would increase significantly with an immediate cop lynch (more than it would increase with a baddie lynch on average), so I definitely agree with Sloonei. We can consolidate as a cool town club later in the phase as necessary. It sucks to lose SW who would have been a valuable member of the club, but I think we anticipated losing one of them anyway. We can add to our ranks if we find the townies among the scary people.

I have no reason for calling Quin town aside from purely reading his tone and his behavior. I think that if he's faking it, it'd be one of the best acting jobs I've ever seen. Sometimes pure earnestness is more important than evidence. We often feel like we have to lynch people because the data works against them -- but we've also all had bad games before where we're in that position ourselves. Try to remember that feeling when you're assessing Quin. I don't think he's bad.

[Prisoner 509378]

Well there are only three left? Fuzz and Ika so that leaves three if we say he is the seemer. Which would be Epi, Boomslang, and maybe Th not sure on him.

There are six cops.

Why are you suspicious of Epignosis?

[sig]

Well there are only three left? Fuzz and Ika so that leaves three if we say he is the seemer. Which would be Epi, Boomslang, and maybe Th not sure on him.

There are six cops.

Why are you suspicious of Epignosis?

Ah I thought there was five my bad.

I was suspicious of Epi fairly early in the game for him refusing to get on any big wagons both day 1 and day 2. Including Fuzz/Ika Day three (I believe) He suddenly with no reasoning or explanation decided I was bad, and have been tunneling on me with no case ever since. IF Ika and Fuzz are both scum it would explain why he didn't vote for either. ALSO if he is scum it would explain why a counterwagon never formed around him when Ika/Fuzz were up and about to be lynched.

Also Sw said Ika was scum and Epi tried very hard to discredit her imo. This was done in an attempt to save Ika. I believe the mafia killed SW for two reasons. One the believed she would go after Epi one of them and two she would push the seemer theory which would help break open the game.

[indiglo]

And, here are Wilgy's thoughts on Epi...


March 8 (before EoD in the game)

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Idk, but for some reason I want to lynch both Ika and Wolf.

Can you elaborate at all?

Not really. Bad gut feeling from the both of you... Er, you two together more so.

March 9

I can ship the Epi boat.

Later on March 9

Suddenly I feel...motivated.

Cuz your teammate was lynched?

March 10

And on the subject of Fuzz's team. It's odd that in that clusterdoodle that no one else decided to toss a vote towards Epi. If Epi was civ, I think there would've been a counter wagon formed on him.

Though... This is just based on vote layout. Correct me if there actually was a Epi boat at least 5 people strong at 1 point.

Epochgenisis... Er... Epignosis

Later March 10

Spoiler: show

Giant post ahead. I'm gonna post a wall of quotes about what happened at EoD2. See if I can make some sense of this mess.

The CFD idea starts here. No suspects are pointed out yet.

I want to lead a CFD counterwagon because I don't like any of these 3, but I have no idea where to go. My vote is accomplishing nothing but I don't know where else to put it. I really hope Epi doesn't get lynched, I haven't played with him in forever and I'm liking his new approach this game.

Golden promptly agrees.

I'd love to, too, but we would need to get enough people on board, and preferably including some of the current voters on the existing 3 wagons.

So does the bear:

Talk to me. My vote is based on a ping, and I am not sure why he has other votes. When I looked in here this AM, it seemed that he had more, so if new info has come up I want to act on it, but I don't know that I can totally catch up in the time that I have.

Sloonei is open to it.

My mind is open.

SW points out Fuzz's opportunistic vote. Ika agrees.

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

Golden throws two possible names. Matt and Wilgy. Not Fuzz, but he says he is open to ideas.

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Says he is also open to Serge and Fuzz. Doesn't vote them or the other two yet.

Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

Sloonei supports a CFD on Matt.

Matt is probably my dark horse lynch option, if we're all gonna start throwing names into the Chinese Fire Drill pool.

Linki: I see we have started doing that! And Matt has other takers.

Jar delivery girl is on board with the whole CFD idea.

Ditto.

Sloonei disagrees with ika. Not clear whether he is against lynching Fuzz or just doesn't like ika's particular point. Looks like the later.

I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

I do not agree. At this point it only makes sense to vote for one of the three of you, so any vote can be said to be "opportunistic".

Next, I voice against the CFD. Argument ensues. Not gonna post it here because this isn't the point of this post.

The bear makes a big point against Fuzz. Brings up the matter of Fuzz refusing to touch Ika.

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

SW disagrees on the CFD. She had priorly agreed on lynching Fuzz, but not the CFD.

Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

I don't like this. I never like the idea of a last minute flash wagon at the end of the day.

Your latest posts are not really sitting well with me.

Radical Fuzz, Golden need to be looked into more tomorrow IMO.

Golden congratulates the bear. No vote yet.

Good find, SVS.

Sloonei agrees with the Fuzz lynch. That gives us 4 people wanting to lynch Fuzz: him, ika, SW and SVS.

Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:

Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

Okay, now I agree.

Golden states he is willing to vote for Fuzz.

No vote yet.

I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

Ika states he also wants to vote for Fuzz. Again, no vote yet.

I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

i can do that

Sloonei opens the flood gates. The poll doesn't show that because Sloonei would later change the vote, but he is the first to vote.

RadicalFuzz is the crooked kind of player.

TH prefers to vote for Scotty though.

I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

Golden votes second.

RadicalFuzz

SW wants to join, but wants more support.

I'm willing to lynch Radical Fuzz right now if there's enough support for it.

Enrique is confused about lynching Fuzz. So is TH.

I am starting to feel more inclined to vote for Epi, and if I reach a point where I'm confident enough to do that, I will do it.

Is that gonna happen on its own? Are you looking for encouragement?

also why is everyone voting fuzz now wtf i wasnt serious

Why Fuzz? I've got linki up the wazoo

Ika votes.

Changed my vote

pedit: well we are @riki

Enrique agrees with my point against the CFD. The Fuzz lynch is fully moving at the time.

I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

Every post you make is making you look more scummy, imo. Why shouldn't we try to push one now, when so many people think all of the current wagons don't have a lot of merit?

If people don't like any of the 3 wagons then sure, go ahead.

But inviting people to look for a fourth one reeks of an attempt to deflect this lynch into something else.

I don't like the timing of this at all. Because all the scum who are seeing their possible teammates get lynched will take the chance to jump out.

Good post.

Enrique votes for one of the movers of the Fuzz wagon:

Golden I really don't like this.

SW votes. Then the bear. Then me.

Radical Fuzz

If this doesn't happen today, I'm voting it tomorrow.

I went to Fuzz

Tied it backup.

Fine.

RadicalFuzz

I hate this plan but if we are not lynching gleam, the Fuzz is the next in line.

I'm not lynching ika today.

Okay I'm gonna stop here with the votes. The rest is history and can be seen in the poll.

The point is this post was to provide a way for people to look at the flow. Who started the CFD, who pushed, how the idea for lynching Fuzz was developed, who came up with it and who pushed it too. This is useful for the point I want to make next.

Also Sig's post against the lynch hadn't come yet, but would eventually come. Will quote it here since he seems to be a big suspect:

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

Ok here is the point. I think Golden is bad.

The reason: the way he moved in this lynch is VERY similar to how he handles bussing in other games where he is bad.

Let me explain how the fiende operates: he is never the one to start the wagon where his teammates are lynched. He waits for someone to bring it up and stays on the fence, looking contributive. But as soon as he smells the wagon, he makes sure he is one of the first to jump on it, in order to keep appearances. He won't jump unless he sees the clear flow of the thread going against the teammate though. But when they do, he will act fast and secute the towncred that lynch will provide. Golden is capable of lynching his entire team, then winning the game alone on a mountain of towncred he carefully obtained along the game. He did it in Economics: got two of his three teammates lynched and made sure to look responsible for it, even when he was never the one to bring the lynch up. He was the first to vote on both lynches, even though he wasn't the one starting the suspicion (TH, the cop, was).

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p148585

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 51#p147451

So it matches with this game. he didn't bring up the CFD. He agreed with it after TH did. He didn't bring up the Fuzz lynch, he actually brought up 3 counter-examples before and attempted to push wagons on them. He only said he was going to vote for Fuzz after four other players did.

And now, he is acting like if everyone on that lynch is automatically town, and the ones who opposed the CFD the most are automatically mafia. A dangerous and absolute view, which doesn't fit an intelligent and questioning person like him. it is perfectly possible for that lynch to contain 1 or even more cops. They could be sacrificing their teammate. Heck, that wasn't even clear it would happen, since the day ended with more votes on ika than on Fuzz. It's likely this was a coordinated job, with some players voting for ika to counter the wagon and some voting for Fuzz in order to split the team. They took the risk, and it didn't pay off since they lost a teammate, but now they are trying to reap the benefits of towncred and/or creating new suspects.

I know this whole thing is a huge tinfoil, but it feels right to me. I'm willing to act on it next day.

That doesn't mean I don't have other suspects though. The ika wagon is probably full of them. I don't like the way Soneji has been playing, for example, and I see the points on Enrique and/or Sig. But I'm gonna pursue this theory first.

I don't like Golden's absolute views. Only siths deal in absolutes. This doesn't sound like a civ wanting to figure out the game.

I'll finish catching up to see if there is anything else worth replying to then disappear again until Day 3. Bye.

So we are lynching Epi tonight right?

[Quin]

Spoiler: show

Nerolunar wrote:
@ Scotty A Sig lynch is fine, but Im not sure its that urgent anymore. This phase is already filled with discussion not orbiting Sig. I would much rather a confirmed scum to me, and that is Chaindeath. He reminds me of myself when I was scum in Arkham - the way my reads were all over the place and such.


Chaindeath isn't scum. If he were a baddie he would be acting quite differently, probably. The biggest kick in the teeth for him is probably not quoting and typing out half of what he was thinking, with the other half that would justify his rational kept in his brain rather than on the page. Shame on him. His crime family has sustained losses and while he would like to say that you've been involved in all of them it would seem that you are intent on killing me and having my family loose as a result. He is unsure on what else to say to convince you in particular but maybe when he gets to responding to the huge ISO on him you may find answers therein.

What's the term for this? 'If I was mafia I wouldn't...' He makes a claim that nero's tunnelling would make his family lose. Is this some don roleclaim?

Spoiler: show

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Prisoner 640326 wrote:
I didn't think that far ahead I'm afraid.
How do you plan to use your time in this free thread?


What do you have to say to my lynch chain? Specifically where I mention you and golden. I haven't got a clue how to do hyperlinks, but it's the first post on page 99.


He is unsure of weather you are referring to your own lynch or your vote. He doesn't want to see you go if that's what you're asking but if it's about trying to lych Scotty then I don't think it would be a bad move, probably. He isn't particularly fond of this phrase from Scotty "
Oh man I want to lynch you. Teacher! Teacher! May I vote twice, like the Warden? I'll be a good boy, I swear!"

If this isn't what you're looking for Quin let him know.

So apparently he doesn't scum read me anymore. I mean, that's great and all, but he's shown no reason as to why. Activity for activities sake? It really just feels like he's making up his reads as he goes along. I don't like it.

Spoiler: show

Matt 2.0

What?

Spoiler: show

Can someone hook up chaidneath with a tldr of the day so far? He has classwork to do and not enough time to read through 400+ posts from the time he was away. To the direct accusations at him he would like to say if you lynch him you lynch a townie. There is no way to make this clearer that he knows of. He is going to vote Nero because he still thinks he's bad. All aboard the train hes going into a tunnel (or has been in one for a while).

Now he's falling back into the old habit of not posting anything worthwhile. There's no meat to his posts. Not even enough to tempt a dog.

[Prisoner 509378]

sig, what was your last game as a baddie on The Syndicate? Please lemme know the name of the game and answer one additional question:

How often/hard did you distance from your team mates?

[indiglo]

If my projections were accurate, we're still on a 3-mislynches-to-LyLo pace. I think town's win-probability would increase significantly with an immediate cop lynch (more than it would increase with a baddie lynch on average), so I definitely agree with Sloonei. We can consolidate as a cool town club later in the phase as necessary. It sucks to lose SW who would have been a valuable member of the club, but I think we anticipated losing one of them anyway. We can add to our ranks if we find the townies among the scary people.

I have no reason for calling Quin town aside from purely reading his tone and his behavior. I think that if he's faking it, it'd be one of the best acting jobs I've ever seen. Sometimes pure earnestness is more important than evidence. We often feel like we have to lynch people because the data works against them -- but we've also all had bad games before where we're in that position ourselves. Try to remember that feeling when you're assessing Quin. I don't think he's bad.

I can assure you, even having listed him on my short list, I will remain open to the possibility of being incorrect on Quin. I have been reluctant to start suspecting him, so will keep my brain open.

[Prisoner 509378]

What's the term for this? 'If I was mafia I wouldn't...'

WIFOM (wine in front of me, a Princess Bride reference). Not an exact example of WIFOM, but it inspires that reaction from people reading it. I don't think WIFOM is either a town tell or a baddie tell for most players.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis, I have no idea what you think of Turnip Head. Do you think anything of Turnip Head?

Turnip Head has a tell when he's bad. When I say that, I don't mean it's a definitive, "Turnip Head is for sure Mafia" tell, but it is something very specific I've observed him do several times when he is bad.

I haven't seen it here yet. Take that for what it's worth.

On the other hand, I read your exchange with Turnip Head and thought your point about the inconsistency regarding significant others was a good one. Turnip Head says you're twisting his words and taking them out of context. On the surface, I don't agree with him, but I'd rather look at his posts and be the judge of that myself.

Context or not, his ika vote was shit, as was most of them.

As of now, Turnip Head isn't on my list.

Spoiler: show

Trying this again, EBWOP. Sorry to repost the whole thing, but I want the context all nestled into a logical place.



I am looking closely at the current alignment ratio (if that wasn't already obvious ). I thought it would be a good idea to draw out a projection for the game to come to determine exactly how many lynches we might have to work with, because that would be hugely beneficial towards the effort of narrowing our pools to a small enough number of people that the baddies simply cannot escape no matter how many there are (assuming the town squad is not infiltrated by a masterbaddie). The above chart reflects that effort.

It's likely unclear. The numbers provided display, by my math/estimation, how many mislynches town can afford to have from this point on without losing the game. I accounted for numerous variables, to include how many people die tonight (the far left margin shows those possibilities), and how many people will die in each ensuing night.

Note: this is just a baseline, and some variables cannot be accounted for without increasing the workload tremendously. The chart math is based on the same number of people dying/being arrested every night (always 0, always 1, or always 2). This is obviously unlikely. With that in mind, it'd have to serve as a starting point upon which later adjustments can be made if necessary when night kills have dropped.

The "maximum" column is there for completism, it's extremely unlikely that will be reflected in this game. The "minimum" column is worst-case scenario. The "projected" column is the most likely on average. You can see that under most possible circumstances, the number of remaining mislynches before town loses this game is *3*. It's possible that can change.

With this in mind, I think we need to try to create a pool of EIGHT suspects that enough of us agree on that we can work through it without as much risk of stubbornness/lone-wolf combat that will destroy the game. I specifically say EIGHT suspects, because that number accounts for FIVE BADDIES, AND THREE MISLYNCHES (based on the common projection of 3 in the chart).

This might be extremely confusing, I don't know. Ask me about it if so. Also the image might be broken which would be super annoying, so lemme know if that's the case.

Son of a bitch, they have a better math program in prison than we do in public school.

Everyone who knows him best: is there any reason you think we should be concerned about llama? I've been comfortable with him because of his sporadic appearances and tunneling, but I don't want to give him a permanent hall pass based on meta.

thellama73 uses intense tunnel vision to mask his alignment, whether good or bad. That's what he's done here. I can't knock him for it, because it keeps people guessing about him. I have trouble forming an opinion on him either way.

How about the list?

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

I (obviously) don't agree with you. I would venture a guess that she got arrested because she's not on anyone's list of eight.

Spoiler: show

I'm not talking just votes. I'm talking suspicion in general. This marks three days of "sig's bad" to "nah, not going to vote sig today." If sig is bad, I'm going to tear this thread apart looking for the people who kept their kid gloves on and why.

Time permitting.

Spoken like a man who knows sig's alignment already and is preemptively setting up fisticuffs after what he thought would be a looming lynch.

He's on Boomslang's team because he held his vote on unlynchables (sig and chain) throughout Day 6 and only moved to Boomslang after the ika wagon had swelled to its apex.

I had every intention of voting Boomslang if no one was going to lynch sig. I implied as much.

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

I thought I had Wilgy's role figured out due to something he said. Turns out I was incorrect. I thought he was claiming to be a hitman and was actually announcing his kill in the thread so the Don could pick up on it.

++++

I see there's a lot more, but I'm posting anyway.

[Quin]

Spoiler: show

He has switched his vote to Ika to kill the tie. He doesn't understand how he's bad but if the town wishes it this civ will turn himself in and let the cops roll through another night phase.

This was the one that made me rethink chaindeath in the first place. Day 6, and six days worth of arguments that support ika being scum. At this point it is almost impossible not to have come to a decision on ika. So, I interpret it to say that he thinks ika is town, yet he was essentially the one who sealed the deal to lynch ika. On its own, this post is enough for him to earn some votes.

And ... that's it.

[Prisoner 509378]

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

I (obviously) don't agree with you. I would venture a guess that she got arrested because she's not on anyone's list of eight.

Numerous people weren't on any lists of eight, and none of them were lightning rods that could [unitnentionally] derail the thread quite like Silverwolf. She was also being called a tinfoil suspect by at least two people.

[indiglo]

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

I (obviously) don't agree with you. I would venture a guess that she got arrested because she's not on anyone's list of eight.

Numerous people weren't on any lists of eight, and none of them were lightning rods that could [unitnentionally] derail the thread quite like Silverwolf. She was also being called a tinfoil suspect by at least two people.

I was just double checking on this myself. SW was most definitely on my list, and she was discussed fairly thoroughly by SVS as well.

And yeah, I agree, she was useful for unintentionally derailing the thread - cops like that. I was pretty surprised to see her as a target. But once you think about it, it seems a little less shocking, and more like she was actually onto something.

[Epignosis]

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

I (obviously) don't agree with you. I would venture a guess that she got arrested because she's not on anyone's list of eight.

Numerous people weren't on any lists of eight, and none of them were lightning rods that could [unitnentionally] derail the thread quite like Silverwolf. She was also being called a tinfoil suspect by at least two people.

I don't suppose it would do me any good to tell you that if I were a cop, I'd be arresting your ass before breakfast.

[Prisoner 509378]

Question for chaindeath:

He has switched his vote to Ika to kill the tie. He doesn't understand how he's bad but if the town wishes it this civ will turn himself in and let the cops roll through another night phase.

Many people thought this post looked terrible. I understand why. I have one thing I need cleared up though. I'll explain why I care after you've answered.

I've highlighted, bolded, italicized, and underlined one of the "he" pronouns you used in this post. Who were you talking about in this exact sentence with this exact pronoun?

Nobody else answer this for him.

[Quin]

Epignosis, I have no idea what you think of Turnip Head. Do you think anything of Turnip Head?

Turnip Head has a tell when he's bad. When I say that, I don't mean it's a definitive, "Turnip Head is for sure Mafia" tell, but it is something very specific I've observed him do several times when he is bad.

I haven't seen it here yet. Take that for what it's worth.

On the other hand, I read your exchange with Turnip Head and thought your point about the inconsistency regarding significant others was a good one. Turnip Head says you're twisting his words and taking them out of context. On the surface, I don't agree with him, but I'd rather look at his posts and be the judge of that myself.

Context or not, his ika vote was shit, as was most of them.

As of now, Turnip Head isn't on my list.

Spoiler: show

Trying this again, EBWOP. Sorry to repost the whole thing, but I want the context all nestled into a logical place.



I am looking closely at the current alignment ratio (if that wasn't already obvious ). I thought it would be a good idea to draw out a projection for the game to come to determine exactly how many lynches we might have to work with, because that would be hugely beneficial towards the effort of narrowing our pools to a small enough number of people that the baddies simply cannot escape no matter how many there are (assuming the town squad is not infiltrated by a masterbaddie). The above chart reflects that effort.

It's likely unclear. The numbers provided display, by my math/estimation, how many mislynches town can afford to have from this point on without losing the game. I accounted for numerous variables, to include how many people die tonight (the far left margin shows those possibilities), and how many people will die in each ensuing night.

Note: this is just a baseline, and some variables cannot be accounted for without increasing the workload tremendously. The chart math is based on the same number of people dying/being arrested every night (always 0, always 1, or always 2). This is obviously unlikely. With that in mind, it'd have to serve as a starting point upon which later adjustments can be made if necessary when night kills have dropped.

The "maximum" column is there for completism, it's extremely unlikely that will be reflected in this game. The "minimum" column is worst-case scenario. The "projected" column is the most likely on average. You can see that under most possible circumstances, the number of remaining mislynches before town loses this game is *3*. It's possible that can change.

With this in mind, I think we need to try to create a pool of EIGHT suspects that enough of us agree on that we can work through it without as much risk of stubbornness/lone-wolf combat that will destroy the game. I specifically say EIGHT suspects, because that number accounts for FIVE BADDIES, AND THREE MISLYNCHES (based on the common projection of 3 in the chart).

This might be extremely confusing, I don't know. Ask me about it if so. Also the image might be broken which would be super annoying, so lemme know if that's the case.

Son of a bitch, they have a better math program in prison than we do in public school.

Everyone who knows him best: is there any reason you think we should be concerned about llama? I've been comfortable with him because of his sporadic appearances and tunneling, but I don't want to give him a permanent hall pass based on meta.

thellama73 uses intense tunnel vision to mask his alignment, whether good or bad. That's what he's done here. I can't knock him for it, because it keeps people guessing about him. I have trouble forming an opinion on him either way.

How about the list?

I don't think anyone on this roster of players had any reason to kill Silverwolf except Epignosis. I also don't think it was an attempt to frame him, because there can be no more difficult a framejob than one on the hornet's nest. Many of the doubts about what happened on Day 2 are resolved theoretically by a Fuzz-ika-Epignosis cop team dynamic, and his involvement also plays into the way he handled Silverwolf's suspicion of ika pre-lynch and suspicion that he was the seemer post-lynch.

I (obviously) don't agree with you. I would venture a guess that she got arrested because she's not on anyone's list of eight.

Spoiler: show

I'm not talking just votes. I'm talking suspicion in general. This marks three days of "sig's bad" to "nah, not going to vote sig today." If sig is bad, I'm going to tear this thread apart looking for the people who kept their kid gloves on and why.

Time permitting.

Spoken like a man who knows sig's alignment already and is preemptively setting up fisticuffs after what he thought would be a looming lynch.

He's on Boomslang's team because he held his vote on unlynchables (sig and chain) throughout Day 6 and only moved to Boomslang after the ika wagon had swelled to its apex.

I had every intention of voting Boomslang if no one was going to lynch sig. I implied as much.

Epignosis made a bold claim that he had good reason not to vote Wilgy back in day 2 or 3. That infers BTSC. Immediately after this post Wilgy came after Epi with claws out. I took it initially as scummy, but went back on that after a while. I think it is time to bring that out of the mud again.

I thought I had Wilgy's role figured out due to something he said. Turns out I was incorrect. I thought he was claiming to be a hitman and was actually announcing his kill in the thread so the Don could pick up on it.

++++

I see there's a lot more, but I'm posting anyway.

I was right about my guess as to Wilgy's role I think my reasoning was shit though. I can't even remember what it was.

Want to give us an alternative vote?

[Prisoner 509378]

I don't suppose it would do me any good to tell you that if I were a cop, I'd be arresting your ass before breakfast.

Why?

[sig]

sig, what was your last game as a baddie on The Syndicate? Please lemme know the name of the game and answer one additional question:

How often/hard did you distance from your team mates?

It would be Star Wars, but I didn't become a baddie until mid game, besides that last my baddie games was Zodic (where everyone was bad). the last full baddie game I had here would be Dune I think?

I'm very good with distancing and not drawing connections to my teammates. It has been a skill I've possessed since my first baddie game. So I'd say I often distance myself from my teammates. Sometimes I won't do this, but my meta is usually distancing, yet not bussing. I don't like to bus teammates unless it is obvious they are going to get lynched.

[Prisoner 509378]

sig, what was your last game as a baddie on The Syndicate? Please lemme know the name of the game and answer one additional question:

How often/hard did you distance from your team mates?

It would be Star Wars, but I didn't become a baddie until mid game, besides that last my baddie games was Zodic (where everyone was bad). the last full baddie game I had here would be Dune I think?

I'm very good with distancing and not drawing connections to my teammates. It has been a skill I've possessed since my first baddie game. So I'd say I often distance myself from my teammates. Sometimes I won't do this, but my meta is usually distancing, yet not bussing. I don't like to bus teammates unless it is obvious they are going to get lynched.

In the Dune game, who were your baddie team mates?

[Epignosis]

I don't suppose it would do me any good to tell you that if I were a cop, I'd be arresting your ass before breakfast.

Why?

No one is going to lynch you and you get to vote. In terms of kills (or arrests), you are a free square.

[Sloonei]

If my projections were accurate, we're still on a 3-mislynches-to-LyLo pace. I think town's win-probability would increase significantly with an immediate cop lynch (more than it would increase with a baddie lynch on average), so I definitely agree with Sloonei. We can consolidate as a cool town club later in the phase as necessary. It sucks to lose SW who would have been a valuable member of the club, but I think we anticipated losing one of them anyway. We can add to our ranks if we find the townies among the scary people.

I have no reason for calling Quin town aside from purely reading his tone and his behavior. I think that if he's faking it, it'd be one of the best acting jobs I've ever seen. Sometimes pure earnestness is more important than evidence. We often feel like we have to lynch people because the data works against them -- but we've also all had bad games before where we're in that position ourselves. Try to remember that feeling when you're assessing Quin. I don't think he's bad.

I can understand where your town read on Quin is coming from. More than any of the other players I've named as suspects in this game, Quin has consistently made posts that I can understand from a townie perspective, and he has fought back strongly against every accusation. But a number of points have remained against him from my early suspicion, and I have doubts that I can't shake at this point in the game with the (lack of) evidence that we have in general. If any player stands to move up in my list of suspects after a cop lynch or two, it's Quin. But until we find bad guys, I can't entirely drop my case on him.

A whole lotta linki.

[Prisoner 509378]

No one is going to lynch you and you get to vote. In terms of kills (or arrests), you are a free square.

Agreed. Baddies might be concerned that killing me is impossible though, because I am a unique game mechanic made human and who knows what that implies.

Separate question. Do you think ika was the seemer?

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

[sig]

sig, what was your last game as a baddie on The Syndicate? Please lemme know the name of the game and answer one additional question:

How often/hard did you distance from your team mates?

It would be Star Wars, but I didn't become a baddie until mid game, besides that last my baddie games was Zodic (where everyone was bad). the last full baddie game I had here would be Dune I think?

I'm very good with distancing and not drawing connections to my teammates. It has been a skill I've possessed since my first baddie game. So I'd say I often distance myself from my teammates. Sometimes I won't do this, but my meta is usually distancing, yet not bussing. I don't like to bus teammates unless it is obvious they are going to get lynched.

In the Dune game, who were your baddie team mates?

MM who died quite early, TH though none of us knew he was on our team. And a super lurker named Luke . Note for that game I wouldn't have been lynched except for night actions on me and was almost civ cleared when I flipped.

[Prisoner 509378]

I can understand where your town read on Quin is coming from. More than any of the other players I've named as suspects in this game, Quin has consistently made posts that I can understand from a townie perspective, and he has fought back strongly against every accusation. But a number of points have remained against him from my early suspicion, and I have doubts that I can't shake at this point in the game with the (lack of) evidence that we have in general. If any player stands to move up in my list of suspects after a cop lynch or two, it's Quin. But until we find bad guys, I can't entirely drop my case on him.

A whole lotta linki.

How extensive is your experience playing with a baddie Quin?

[Prisoner 509378]

MM who died quite early, TH though none of us knew he was on our team. And a super lurker named Luke . Note for that game I wouldn't have been lynched except for night actions on me and was almost civ cleared when I flipped.

That limits the available data. I'll still check it out though.

[sig]

Bullets over Broadway my first scum game and first TS game might be better?

[Dom]

Bullets over Broadway my first scum game and first TS game might be better?

I'm proud then.

[Epignosis]

No one is going to lynch you and you get to vote. In terms of kills (or arrests), you are a free square.

Agreed. Baddies might be concerned that killing me is impossible though, because I am a unique game mechanic made human and who knows what that implies.

Separate question. Do you think ika was the seemer?

Nope. Still don't.

You would have two Mafia lined up nice and pretty for the Day 2 lynch. One of them is a useful role at Night, the surveillance specialist. The other is a useful role during the Day, the seemer. So ika the seemer lynches Fuzz the surveillance guy with borrowed votes?

That's too much for me to believe.

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

I still don't think she's right about ika.

[Epignosis]

chaindeath is where I'm voting. He voted ika, went to Nerolunar, and then went back to ika because "that's what the civilians want."

I still have a lot of reading to do, but by God it ain't happening tonight. Today sucked.

[Quin]

No one is going to lynch you and you get to vote. In terms of kills (or arrests), you are a free square.

Agreed. Baddies might be concerned that killing me is impossible though, because I am a unique game mechanic made human and who knows what that implies.

Separate question. Do you think ika was the seemer?

Nope. Still don't.

You would have two Mafia lined up nice and pretty for the Day 2 lynch. One of them is a useful role at Night, the surveillance specialist. The other is a useful role during the Day, the seemer. So ika the seemer lynches Fuzz the surveillance guy with borrowed votes?

That's too much for me to believe.

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

I still don't think she's right about ika.

If ika was lynched on Day 2, do you think Fuzz would have survived Day 3?

[Sloonei]

I can understand where your town read on Quin is coming from. More than any of the other players I've named as suspects in this game, Quin has consistently made posts that I can understand from a townie perspective, and he has fought back strongly against every accusation. But a number of points have remained against him from my early suspicion, and I have doubts that I can't shake at this point in the game with the (lack of) evidence that we have in general. If any player stands to move up in my list of suspects after a cop lynch or two, it's Quin. But until we find bad guys, I can't entirely drop my case on him.

A whole lotta linki.

How extensive is your experience playing with a baddie Quin?

Not very. He was bad in Zodiac, but like others have mentioned, so was everyone else (except for me). I died Night 1 but I followed along somewhat. I'm not as familiar with Quin the mafia player as I am with Quin the person.

[Epignosis]

No one is going to lynch you and you get to vote. In terms of kills (or arrests), you are a free square.

Agreed. Baddies might be concerned that killing me is impossible though, because I am a unique game mechanic made human and who knows what that implies.

Separate question. Do you think ika was the seemer?

Nope. Still don't.

You would have two Mafia lined up nice and pretty for the Day 2 lynch. One of them is a useful role at Night, the surveillance specialist. The other is a useful role during the Day, the seemer. So ika the seemer lynches Fuzz the surveillance guy with borrowed votes?

That's too much for me to believe.

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

I still don't think she's right about ika.

If ika was lynched on Day 2, do you think Fuzz would have survived Day 3?

I do. Has the runner up in any lynch gotten lynched the next Day phase?

[Prisoner 509378]

Okay now that I've sufficiently poked Epi, I'm going to pose a question to everyone:

Sigh................

I have one little thing that concerns me about this...................

Nah, probs just being paranoid.

I'm sorry ika.....................

Sigh................

I have one little thing that concerns me about this...................

Just one?

Yes

The highlighted bit seems to immediately eliminate the possibility that Silverwolf could have information that implies/confirms ika is the seemer. If there's even an implication then that admission of probable paranoia would have never happened, right?

So when we return to this later thing:

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

How seriously should we take those freaking quotation marks? It's designed to look like a role hint or an infodump, but I don't know what it could be based on the roles at hand. If Silverwolf was the actual role that ika flipped, then she would have never doubted herself for a moment.

[Prisoner 509378]

Bullets over Broadway my first scum game and first TS game might be better?

I checked Dune and this both, and you barely even talked about any of your team mates.

[Epignosis]

Okay now that I've sufficiently poked Epi, I'm going to pose a question to everyone:

Sigh................

I have one little thing that concerns me about this...................

Nah, probs just being paranoid.

I'm sorry ika.....................

Sigh................

I have one little thing that concerns me about this...................

Just one?

Yes

The highlighted bit seems to immediately eliminate the possibility that Silverwolf could have information that implies/confirms ika is the seemer. If there's even an implication then that admission of probable paranoia would have never happened, right?

So when we return to this later thing:

I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

How seriously should we take those freaking quotation marks? It's designed to look like a role hint or an infodump, but I don't know what it could be based on the roles at hand. If Silverwolf was the actual role that ika flipped, then she would have never doubted herself for a moment.

Or look at the pink.

[Sloonei]

Re: Silverwolf; I interpreted her reaction as Silverwolf believing that ika had to be bad, and suspecting that he had perhaps set himself up to look like the stool pigeon in preparation for his fale flip as the seemer. So, just speculation. I am not reading into her death as a sign that she had to be right or onto something.

[Prisoner 509378]

Or look at the pink.

Also valid.

Re: Silverwolf; I interpreted her reaction as Silverwolf believing that ika had to be bad, and suspecting that he had perhaps set himself up to look like the stool pigeon in preparation for his fale flip as the seemer. So, just speculation. I am not reading into her death as a sign that she had to be right or onto something.

Yeah. Those quotation marks are making my left eyeball tweak like crazy, but I don't think she had any way of knowing.

[Quin]

Re: Silverwolf; I interpreted her reaction as Silverwolf believing that ika had to be bad, and suspecting that he had perhaps set himself up to look like the stool pigeon in preparation for his fale flip as the seemer. So, just speculation. I am not reading into her death as a sign that she had to be right or onto something.

I pretty much agree with this. I don't think that she was killed because she was right or wrong about something. I think it was because to the majority of players she was a confirmed civ.

[sig]

Bullets over Broadway my first scum game and first TS game might be better?

I checked Dune and this both, and you barely even talked about any of your team mates.

True in Dune I didn't however seeing as how I'm civ here I wouldn't talk about mafia at all. :P

This really does boil down to whether you believe Ika is the seemer. IF you do I'm a civ who shouldn't be lynched if you don't well I'm still a civ, but ti would make slightly more sense for you to be for my lynch. I did vote for Ika twice, pushed for his lynch, ect which I'd never do to a teammate. I also wouldn't have defended Fuzz nearly as much if I was mafia :P