Battlestar Galactica Mafia - GAME OVER

[DrumBeats]

Catching up, I'll be posting my thoughts/responses as I go.

@Drum why should I be lynched?

"Sig reeks. Not only did he refuse to claim cylon, but he also tried to push on Epig to force a claim out of him, which he himself refuses to do. " - Already adressed it but I am still partial to a Wilgy lynch right now.

[S~V~S]

Like I said, I never saw it. And I am not the only one. So please show these posts to the other people that thought that as well. Once it was directly explained to me, I got it.

[DrumBeats]

Spoiler: show

I think it is a valid reasoning, even if you do not. Even in games where you are using alternative playstyles, you still show up and tend to be somewhat of a thread leader rather than otherwise. It seems to me that you were wallflowering to me My reasoning is my reasoning, and I am sorry it displeases you, but it works for me.

And even having read every post you made up until you started taking votes just this weekend, I don't recall a single opinion you have held.

I have also said that I am going to take Dex' word for whatever he saw, but I am also not going to apologize for or backpedal from how I felt before the lynch. So can you please dial back the aggression a tad?

Aggression? I don't mean to be aggro (sorry if it seemed that way).

A Wilgy cheatsheet:
Strongest opinions, Sig, BR, and Sokoth placed a vote on me after I stated that I was a toaster. This makes little to no civ sense considering their vote would be negated. Why use your strongest power as a civ, your vote, in a position where it wouldn't count.

Strong opinion, Sig's reaction to me taking his side against Epi vs me voting for him on behalf of Scotty was not what I expect out of a civillian Sig.

Medium opinion, OA and Silver are not on the same team. I believe they have been working together now for 3 cycles rather strongly. I don't think Mafia would allow for both of them to still be alive if they were on the same team.

Weak opinion, those defending me are likely civilian. Mafia have nothing to gain out of defending me since i'll flip cylon anyways + at the rate we are going a lynch on cylon Wilgy will probably be easy.

Things I'm looking for: BR and Silver's feedback regarding the events of last night and the content I created. Also, any opinions regarding my thoughts on Sig.

Linki - Not that I would no sadly. If he's soul reading me as civilian I appreciate it, that and the above opinions are all I got.

I agree sig's reaction to your claim was bad. I'd be wiling to pressure sig. I'm not civ reading him by any means. Don't assume mafia wouldn't defend you right now. And don't assume civs that were going hard after you before wouldn't be doing so now as well.

I don't like how Black Rock and Sokoth came in here and placed a vote on you and peaced out with not much else to say after you already claimed. I would like for both of them to explain why they voted you after you claimed. It makes little sense and the better move would be to vote for someone else they suspected.

So assuming that I am civillian, but a cylon, what would mafia gain from defending me since alignment isn't revealed? I honestly can only see 1 or 2 players having reaction to my death other than mafia kinda saying "woohoo" there goes another one.

Hey Zeebs, can I get a cheatsheet on your opinions currently?

I went back a bit to look at stuff and found this. This post makes me believe to a high degree that Wilgy is not a cylon that is part of the anti-Cavil faction. The underlined portion implies that we would not know he is "civ-aligned" based on his character flip. If he were one of the remaining "good cylons" we have discussed, this would not be an issue.

[Dex]

I went back a bit to look at stuff and found this. This post makes me believe to a high degree that Wilgy is not a cylon that is part of the anti-Cavil faction. The underlined portion implies that we would not know he is "civ-aligned" based on his character flip. If he were one of the remaining "good cylons" we have discussed, this would not be an issue.

When LoRab flipped D'Anna, the leader of what I perceive to be the anti-Cavii faction, nobody (but me) believed it to be a bad lynch, because cylon. Same situation here. We were not told D'Anna's alignment and we won't be told Leoben's or Caprica 6's or anyone else's for that matter.

[ObscureAllure]

VOTE: Dr. Wigly.

Because he was inky cylon yesterday mediant he's uncivilized a Cylon today.

[Golden]

I'm assuming we can vote for zebra/rabbit as normal?

Yes. No freebies for rabbit.

[DrumBeats]

1) He is a nonconfirmed cylon. So many people have cleared him based on speculation that he is Cap Six, but the statistic odds that he is are slim..

That is not why I "clear him". There is no speculation.

Then why do you clear him? Looking back on your ISO, I do not see a reason for this provided, other than your thought that Daisy was "a mafia cylon looking for an easy civ cylon kill." You went from pushing him to claim toaster straight to confirming him civ. You say it is not a whim and you have clear reasoning but expect us to take it at face value, going as far as to say that you suspect anyone who pushes Wilgy.

There are three possible motivations I can think of based on the information I can currently see:

1) You are scum-scum with Wilgy, motivating you to deflect people off of him by clearing him with no reasoning to back it. Your policy of suspecting those who want to push Wilgy then stems from a fear-mongering attempt to stop people from pursuing him in order to keep themselves alive. This option is low likelihood imo, but possible.

2) Wilgy is a civ cylon and you are a Cavil cylon. You know he is a civ cylon due to the lynch failing and him not being a BTSC partner for you. Defending him would give you civ cred when he ends up flipping Cap Six and allow you to push for mislynches on the people who push for Wilgy. Should Wilgy flip civ, this is highly likely imo. Statistically though, Wilgy will not flip civ, so I will only pursue this should Wilgy flip Cap Six.

3) Role-related info. Likelihood of this is low imo when I looked at the roles. There are a few secret ones that could maybe get something like this, or maybe the prophecy girl, but that would be an oddly specific thing to get from that. Very low likelihood.

[rabbit8]

Like I said, I never saw it. And I am not the only one. So please show these posts to the other people that thought that as well. Once it was directly explained to me, I got it.

I know you did. I think you saw those posts. I will get into more of your posts later. This is only beginning.

[DrWilgy]

VOTE: Dr. Wigly.

Because he was inky cylon yesterday mediant he's uncivilized a Cylon today.

NO U ya racist

@Drumbeats, how do we know who is Cavil aligned?

[S~V~S]

Like I said, I never saw it. And I am not the only one. So please show these posts to the other people that thought that as well. Once it was directly explained to me, I got it.

I know you did. I think you saw those posts. I will get into more of your posts later. This is only beginning.

I expected it

[Dex]

You went from pushing him to claim toaster straight to confirming him civ. You say it is not a whim and you have clear reasoning but expect us to take it at face value, going as far as to say that you suspect anyone who pushes Wilgy.

You don't have to take it as face value. The evidence is there, I'm just not allowed to show it to you. You can look for it if you cared to. S~V~S did, and found it from what she's said of it.

My motivation is to prevent a bad lynch.

[rabbit8]

I'm curious to know why Drumbeats hasn't voted Wilgy yet, if he's really such an "obvious lynch choice".

Mind you, I have absolutely no way at all of knowing whether Wilgy is Caprica Six or not; I've been guessing folks' humanity/cylonicity and alignment based on their behavior, vote history, attitude towards claiming and any signs of avoiding or attempting to budding with others here. This was how I approached all of the few mafia games I've played and it works most of the time; at least this beats voting by the gut, IMO.

Sometimes, especially during the first few days, this data is not enough and I have to take risks - and I have not, so far, found reasons to be ashamed of correcting Wilgy on his claim, for the results of this correction (if his previous claim attempts were really invalid) were better than accidentally lynching a helpful civ. Instead, we removed a manichaeism-preaching human from the game, and I'm fine with that.

I'm worried about Glorfindel, sig and zebra (now Rabbit8, who needs to join the conversation). Forgive me if I am mistaken, for I haven't paid much attention to this game in the past 3 or so days, but they've been scrubbing each other's backs for a while and attacking most of those who've publicly declared to be suspicious of them. Glorfindel seems especially dangerous and has been rather passive-aggressive towards me since I manifested my concerns about his non-claiming - which later led me to cast a vote on him - and I want whoever is Gaius Baltar (the one with the cylonoscopy power) to see if he's a potential toaster. Let's all hope Gaius is still alive, though.

In my defense, I had to read a lot of fucking stupid nonsense to understand what happened. The reading got a lot easier after night 1,for some reason I cannot put my finger on. Then you know, it happened all over again, then again...and so on.

I don't know why zebs did what she did in this game. I don't read minds and she and I have not been in any contact. I don't have all the same reads as her.

Okay, thanks, bye.

[DrumBeats]

What scummy behavior are you lynching me on DrumBeats?

Your turn Wilgy: what baddie strategy do you assert I am employing if Glorfindel is my team mate when I "coach" him the way I did in the thread?

Unsure. That's why I found it odd that I read it as a teammate interaction.

What triggered that reference (To the GoC). When I read that I read it at the angle of you thinkin I was civ?

Well, I am not currently lynching you. I am pushing for it though ;D You contributed little to nothing up until the point when you came under fire. You refused to claim until you came under fire. Your whole game right now screams self-preservation. Given the fact too that you are a guaranteed cylon, the odds lie with you being Cavil-aligned.


And @ linki Wigly. We don't know who is Cavil-aligned, but we know that for this to be a balanced mafia game there needs to be more Cavil-aligned than not. We know we have already found two of the non-Cavil-aligned cylons. Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons.

@ linki Polo - Trying to wait until I am fully caught up because things can change. I made the mistake of voting too early with the LoRab one when we could have used those votes to keep baiting out claims. I learned my lesson from then and want to make sure if the votes aren't where they should be on Wilgy, I can make mine matter between who the candidates end up being.

[Dex]

Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons..

I'll just keep repeating myself. If there is a anti-Cavil faction, Leoben is part of it.

[rabbit8]

Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons..

I'll just keep repeating myself. If there is a anti-Cavil faction, Leoben is part of it.

I agree. I also don't believe Cap Six is the only one left. I count a few.

[ObscureAllure]

You went from pushing him to claim toaster straight to confirming him civ. You say it is not a whim and you have clear reasoning but expect us to take it at face value, going as far as to say that you suspect anyone who pushes Wilgy.

You don't have to take it as face value. The evidence is there, I'm just not allowed to show it to you. You can look for it if you cared to. S~V~S did, and found it from what she's said of it.

My motivation is to prevent a bad lynch.

Which character uninured you believe he Acolyte of Death? birdwithteeth11

[Dex]

I agree. I also don't believe Cap Six is the only one left. I count a few.

You're familiar with the show, then?

You know, when I subbed in it was for a player who hadn't made the "I am a cylon" declaration, same as you. I choose to declare. Any chance you'll follow suit?

[DrumBeats]

Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons..

I'll just keep repeating myself. If there is a anti-Cavil faction, Leoben is part of it.

So by that logic, we have a total of four mafia in a 29 player game? That does not seem right at all. Mafia would then be Cavil, Boomer, Simon, and Aaron. Then maybe some of the final five, depending on how those mechanics work. There's a chance I guess based on that mechanic, but even in that scenario: it is still only a 40% shot Wilgy is a civ cylon as far as the remaining ones go.

[SokothQultuq]

Hrm, that first quote should have been from Sokoth, not Silver, the "Huh" not sure how I did that.

I'm just not sure about you, that's all. Have not gotten an opinion formed as to what side of the field your playing on.

[DrumBeats]

And you think it looks bad for him that he seems incapable of following through with that?

I don't think it looks good. If you don't think there's a valid inspiration for that assertion, you've never played Mafia before.

If you think there are any, and I mean any, absolutes in this game, then you've never played Mafia before.

This quote doesn't strike me well. Zebra was just saying that it was an absolute that a Wilgy or Glorf lynch would not be successful and then pulls this on JJJ's thoughts of Glorf's self-defense.

[Epignosis]

For the record:

It is not necessary for you to have knowledge of the show to play. However, at times, lore will play a role in the mechanics of the game, and it could provide an explanation for events that have occurred or provide you with assistance in what to do next. At times, it may be to your faction's advantage if there is at least someone on your side with knowledge of the show, but it will never be game breaking for you if you do not. It is up to you, the players, how much you choose to research lore during the game.

The underlined is bullshit.

It's not necessary for you to have an esophagus to enjoy food, but it sure helps.

I don't even know if I have an esophagus.

Do I have an esophagus?

[Dex]

[quote="DrumBeats"So by that logic, we have a total of four mafia in a 29 player game? That does not seem right at all. Mafia would then be Cavil, Boomer, Simon, and Aaron. Then maybe some of the final five, depending on how those mechanics work. There's a chance I guess based on that mechanic, but even in that scenario: it is still only a 40% shot Wilgy is a civ cylon as far as the remaining ones go.[/quote]

Yes, but then you're not taking into account the rez ships and martial law, which forces us to kill all the cylons. I guess you missed that post as well. We've been very lucky.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 40#p282340

[ObscureAllure]

Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons..

I'll just keep repeating myself. If there is a anti-Cavil faction, Leoben is part of it.

So by that logic, we have a total of four mafia in a 29 player game? That does not seem right at all. Mafia would then be Cavil, Boomer, Simon, and Aaron. Then maybe some of the final five, depending on how those mechanics work. There's a chance I guess based on that mechanic, but even in that scenario: it is still only a 40% shot Wilgy is a civ cylon as far as the remaining ones go.

I think unwarmed if they could recruit, it NotInOxford help those numbers The Cyber Controller most likely, I think stoup can recruit.

[SokothQultuq]

I'm going with my gut on this one.

I'm voting Dr. Wilgy

[rabbit8]

And you think it looks bad for him that he seems incapable of following through with that?

I don't think it looks good. If you don't think there's a valid inspiration for that assertion, you've never played Mafia before.

If you think there are any, and I mean any, absolutes in this game, then you've never played Mafia before.

This quote doesn't strike me well. Zebra was just saying that it was an absolute that a Wilgy or Glorf lynch would not be successful and then pulls this on JJJ's thoughts of Glorf's self-defense.

If you expect me to defend this. Frak that.

You can look at my suspects and thoughts or you can suspect a replaced player on the merits of another player. Your call.

[rabbit8]

I agree. I also don't believe Cap Six is the only one left. I count a few.

You're familiar with the show, then?

You know, when I subbed in it was for a player who hadn't made the "I am a cylon" declaration, same as you. I choose to declare. Any chance you'll follow suit?

Yes.

I started the day with two votes for things I did not do or say. I have Drumbeats digging up old quotes on Zebs right now.
So... I will say it this lynch if I'm not lynched, likely if you're about to lynch me too.

Would this help your case?

[Glorfindel]

We don't know who is Cavil-aligned, but we know that for this to be a balanced mafia game there needs to be more Cavil-aligned than not. We know we have already found two of the non-Cavil-aligned cylons. Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons.

I beg your pardon, my friend? WE do not KNOW this at all. This is speculation and in my view, a convenient lie. That is also NOT a criticism of you but of the comment you made - just for the record...

[DrumBeats]

The same topics have been gone over so many times.

Let's discuss two different people:

Black Rock
DrumBeats

I am still not sure what Black Rock was trying to do leaping on S~V~S like she did when Long Con was human awfulness.

With DrumBeats:

I see that some people, notably sig and Zebra, have shown adamant intent on voting me today. I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Don't you think that if I were mafia and buddies with DrWilgy, I would have rather warned him about the mispell on BTSC chat and hide from any suspicion whatsoever?
2) If, in fact, Wilgy only got immune because of the correct spelling AND he's really mafia, does that make me more of a baddie than he and therefore I should be the one getting lynched instead of the confirmed Cylon?

There's some food for thought.

No, but the way you instantly jumped in with "He's Capricia Six" makes me suspect you hard. Especially if he actually flips Capricia Six, which you would know he was if you were mafia.

Wilgy is the obvious lynch choice here guys. If you want to throw Glorf in front to bait a claim that's fine, but Wigly needs to at least be second for the following reasons:

1) He is a nonconfirmed cylon. So many people have cleared him based on speculation that he is Cap Six, but the statistic odds that he is are slim. Additionally, his lynch was due to scummy behavior in the first place, how does that translate into he's clearly Six?

2) Should he somehow flip Six, we get a ton of information out of it. We will know that there are no more town-aligned cylons left other than Epig, which will help us to not deal with this again. And we will be able to reasonably concluded that Polo is likely mafia for reasons stated above.

Wilgy should be today's lynch and Sig should be tomorrow's. We can set up claim baits over top of them, but the end goal should be lynching these two.

Glorf, if you are not a cylon, you will claim cylon right now to not detract us from the Wilgy lynch. Anything else from you at this point is extremely antitown behavior.

That huge bit- doesn't it work both ways? If DrumBeats knows Wilgy's role, then he is setting Polo up.

1) I don't know what "nonconfirmed Cylon" means. However, this is pushing a DrWilgy lynch based on old evidence and dismissing new evidence ("Bah, he can't be 6 because statistics, see? But look, it was his scummy behavior what got him lynched the first time anyways, see?").

2) Again, DrumBeats is playing both sides of the coin. He wants to lynch Wilgy on the basis of obtaining information. His #2 says "If my #1 is wrong, see, it's still okay, because we learn stuff." And how does he presume to know anything about who is a "town-aligned Cylon" or how many of those there are? Regarding Polo: If Polo is wrong about DrWilgy being 6, then DrumBeats suspects him, but DrumBeats ESPECIALLY suspects him if Polo is right. There's no wiggle room because of that word "especially" employed earlier.

DrumBeats ends his post with a warning (?) against Glorfindel.

1) Nonconfirmed cylon = not cleared town. My bad the wording was terrible.

2) That is true, you could say that about this. Would you rather I not voice my suspicions on their motivation. I am willing to express my thoughts on what is going on here and what the motivations behind the sudden "omg Wilgy is a cylon, he must be a town one" shift. Should you suspect me for it, that's up to you.

[DrumBeats]

And you think it looks bad for him that he seems incapable of following through with that?

I don't think it looks good. If you don't think there's a valid inspiration for that assertion, you've never played Mafia before.

If you think there are any, and I mean any, absolutes in this game, then you've never played Mafia before.

This quote doesn't strike me well. Zebra was just saying that it was an absolute that a Wilgy or Glorf lynch would not be successful and then pulls this on JJJ's thoughts of Glorf's self-defense.

If you expect me to defend this. Frak that.

You can look at my suspects and thoughts or you can suspect a replaced player on the merits of another player. Your call.

Sorry, I didn't see the sub in yet when I did this, I'll look at your suspects stuff when I get there.

[Dex]

Would this help your case?

No, I just find it generally civ helpful. There are only five undeclared left.

[Silverwolf]

@Vompatti-Your second vote was on Glorfindel in dead red, but I don't see it in the poll-can you add it please?

Thanks

[DrumBeats]

We don't know who is Cavil-aligned, but we know that for this to be a balanced mafia game there needs to be more Cavil-aligned than not. We know we have already found two of the non-Cavil-aligned cylons. Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons.

I beg your pardon, my friend? WE do not KNOW this at all. This is speculation and in my view, a convenient lie. That is also NOT a criticism of you but of the comment you made - just for the record...

I don't understand any of what you just said. What in my post are you describing as a convenient lie? This is based upon all of the lore speculation done by those who know the show.

[DrumBeats]

So by that logic, we have a total of four mafia in a 29 player game? That does not seem right at all. Mafia would then be Cavil, Boomer, Simon, and Aaron. Then maybe some of the final five, depending on how those mechanics work. There's a chance I guess based on that mechanic, but even in that scenario: it is still only a 40% shot Wilgy is a civ cylon as far as the remaining ones go.

Yes, but then you're not taking into account the rez ships and martial law, which forces us to kill all the cylons. I guess you missed that post as well. We've been very lucky.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 40#p282340

I haven't gotten to the post you cited here yet, so I'll check it in context when I get there. I'm not missing anything, just starting from where I left off and trying to respond to current things as I catch up. It is probably a bit disjointed to read real time though, so I am sorry about that.

[Epignosis]

The same topics have been gone over so many times.

Let's discuss two different people:

Black Rock
DrumBeats

I am still not sure what Black Rock was trying to do leaping on S~V~S like she did when Long Con was human awfulness.

With DrumBeats:

I see that some people, notably sig and Zebra, have shown adamant intent on voting me today. I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Don't you think that if I were mafia and buddies with DrWilgy, I would have rather warned him about the mispell on BTSC chat and hide from any suspicion whatsoever?
2) If, in fact, Wilgy only got immune because of the correct spelling AND he's really mafia, does that make me more of a baddie than he and therefore I should be the one getting lynched instead of the confirmed Cylon?

There's some food for thought.

No, but the way you instantly jumped in with "He's Capricia Six" makes me suspect you hard. Especially if he actually flips Capricia Six, which you would know he was if you were mafia.

Wilgy is the obvious lynch choice here guys. If you want to throw Glorf in front to bait a claim that's fine, but Wigly needs to at least be second for the following reasons:

1) He is a nonconfirmed cylon. So many people have cleared him based on speculation that he is Cap Six, but the statistic odds that he is are slim. Additionally, his lynch was due to scummy behavior in the first place, how does that translate into he's clearly Six?

2) Should he somehow flip Six, we get a ton of information out of it. We will know that there are no more town-aligned cylons left other than Epig, which will help us to not deal with this again. And we will be able to reasonably concluded that Polo is likely mafia for reasons stated above.

Wilgy should be today's lynch and Sig should be tomorrow's. We can set up claim baits over top of them, but the end goal should be lynching these two.

Glorf, if you are not a cylon, you will claim cylon right now to not detract us from the Wilgy lynch. Anything else from you at this point is extremely antitown behavior.

That huge bit- doesn't it work both ways? If DrumBeats knows Wilgy's role, then he is setting Polo up.

1) I don't know what "nonconfirmed Cylon" means. However, this is pushing a DrWilgy lynch based on old evidence and dismissing new evidence ("Bah, he can't be 6 because statistics, see? But look, it was his scummy behavior what got him lynched the first time anyways, see?").

2) Again, DrumBeats is playing both sides of the coin. He wants to lynch Wilgy on the basis of obtaining information. His #2 says "If my #1 is wrong, see, it's still okay, because we learn stuff." And how does he presume to know anything about who is a "town-aligned Cylon" or how many of those there are? Regarding Polo: If Polo is wrong about DrWilgy being 6, then DrumBeats suspects him, but DrumBeats ESPECIALLY suspects him if Polo is right. There's no wiggle room because of that word "especially" employed earlier.

DrumBeats ends his post with a warning (?) against Glorfindel.

1) Nonconfirmed cylon = not cleared town. My bad the wording was terrible.

2) That is true, you could say that about this. Would you rather I not voice my suspicions on their motivation. I am willing to express my thoughts on what is going on here and what the motivations behind the sudden "omg Wilgy is a cylon, he must be a town one" shift. Should you suspect me for it, that's up to you.

Yeah, it is up to me, and yeah, I do.

I would not rather you refrain from voicing your suspicions regarding their motivations. Is that what you took from my post? That I would prefer you not to speak? No, I would rather you speak, so I can figure you out. I do not believe you are genuine in what you have said.

You are going to get my vote if I can get enough support.

[Epignosis]

@Vompatti-Your second vote was on Glorfindel in dead red, but I don't see it in the poll-can you add it please?

Thanks

He can't do that.

[Silverwolf]

We don't know who is Cavil-aligned, but we know that for this to be a balanced mafia game there needs to be more Cavil-aligned than not. We know we have already found two of the non-Cavil-aligned cylons. Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons.

I beg your pardon, my friend? WE do not KNOW this at all. This is speculation and in my view, a convenient lie. That is also NOT a criticism of you but of the comment you made - just for the record...

This is coming from a very likely Cavil aligned cylon. Nice how he still hasn't claimed and won't say why. That he shot down the fact that nutella was an evil cylon or that any cylons were evil and is now shouting down the fact that there may be more Cavil aligned cylons out there than not. He's practically waving a banner saying he's an evil cylon most of this day phase and no one will even run him up to a claim which is really quite sad.

[DrumBeats]

So say we all. (A lot of posts from Golden back there. Thought I'd throw that in for insurance)

Glorfindel's posts seem to be full of words but devoid of content.

I'd use a stronger verb than "seem."

I hear you.

As for Black Rock, I'm curious to hear more from her. Any time an accuser goes back a long way with the accused, I can't help but perk my ears up. It happened after SVS seemed to waffle on one or two stances.

DrumBeats fell out of my civ reads for his bizarre advocation to put Nero ahead of LoRab Day 3. That defied the whole purpose of squeezing a claim out of LoRab while she was on top.

I think 'nonconfirmed Cylon' might mean a Cylon of undetermined alignment. That would be my guess at least. And to be picky, it should be 'unconfirmed' and not 'nonconfirmed.' I can see your angle on putting Polo in a lose-lose situation. Drum feels quiet overall, probably because he disappears for longish stretches of time. I'm not really one to condemn anyone for that though.

Linki:

That is understandable, I will admit the logic was not the best. My thought was that since Lorab would be safe if they were mafia regardless, I might as well push for the the next one to be above it in order to save town!Lorab. There was enough time in the day for others to revert it, but I went with my gut.

And yeah sorry about my relative quietness lately, I was pretty busy and this game's high activity/lack of clarity discouraged my activity during this. I'm trying to make sure I push through this, but it will likely be in spurts like this.

[Silverwolf]

@Vompatti-Your second vote was on Glorfindel in dead red, but I don't see it in the poll-can you add it please?

Thanks

He can't do that.

You are right.

@Vomp-never mind

[DrumBeats]

I'm curious to know why Drumbeats hasn't voted Wilgy yet, if he's really such an "obvious lynch choice".

Mind you, I have absolutely no way at all of knowing whether Wilgy is Caprica Six or not; I've been guessing folks' humanity/cylonicity and alignment based on their behavior, vote history, attitude towards claiming and any signs of avoiding or attempting to budding with others here. This was how I approached all of the few mafia games I've played and it works most of the time; at least this beats voting by the gut, IMO.

Sometimes, especially during the first few days, this data is not enough and I have to take risks - and I have not, so far, found reasons to be ashamed of correcting Wilgy on his claim, for the results of this correction (if his previous claim attempts were really invalid) were better than accidentally lynching a helpful civ. Instead, we removed a manichaeism-preaching human from the game, and I'm fine with that.

I'm worried about Glorfindel, sig and zebra (now Rabbit8, who needs to join the conversation). Forgive me if I am mistaken, for I haven't paid much attention to this game in the past 3 or so days, but they've been scrubbing each other's backs for a while and attacking most of those who've publicly declared to be suspicious of them. Glorfindel seems especially dangerous and has been rather passive-aggressive towards me since I manifested my concerns about his non-claiming - which later led me to cast a vote on him - and I want whoever is Gaius Baltar (the one with the cylonoscopy power) to see if he's a potential toaster. Let's all hope Gaius is still alive, though.

This is the one that I responded to earlier in linki because somebody else quoted it, but I haven't voted yet in case Wilgy ends up being a nonfactor because nobody else is on board. I learned from my mistakes earlier in voting too early, and I would like to hold onto it in order to make the best decision possible.

[Glorfindel]

We don't know who is Cavil-aligned, but we know that for this to be a balanced mafia game there needs to be more Cavil-aligned than not. We know we have already found two of the non-Cavil-aligned cylons. Cap Six is the presumed last one, but that is only one out of the remaining cylons.

I beg your pardon, my friend? WE do not KNOW this at all. This is speculation and in my view, a convenient lie. That is also NOT a criticism of you but of the comment you made - just for the record...

I don't understand any of what you just said. What in my post are you describing as a convenient lie? This is based upon all of the lore speculation done by those who know the show.

Precisely, my friend - speculation of any colour =/= fact. Thank you.

[rabbit8]

Would this help your case?

No, I just find it generally civ helpful. There are only five undeclared left.

Why? I'm sure you said but I'm being lazy and would really appreciate and explanation from anyone who thinks declaring is civvie minded?

And you think it looks bad for him that he seems incapable of following through with that?

I don't think it looks good. If you don't think there's a valid inspiration for that assertion, you've never played Mafia before.

If you think there are any, and I mean any, absolutes in this game, then you've never played Mafia before.

This quote doesn't strike me well. Zebra was just saying that it was an absolute that a Wilgy or Glorf lynch would not be successful and then pulls this on JJJ's thoughts of Glorf's self-defense.

If you expect me to defend this. Frak that.

You can look at my suspects and thoughts or you can suspect a replaced player on the merits of another player. Your call.

Sorry, I didn't see the sub in yet when I did this, I'll look at your suspects stuff when I get there.

When I read your posts am I supposed to know you're catching up? Because I got that feeling as I read through the thread that you post before you digest fully and with as much context as possible. It's a bit confusing to read. I'm assuming your posts are well informed when you post them. Only to be fooled by the fact some of them are not. You could back track at anytime and declare something you have not read changed this or that.

Just something I noticed.

[DrumBeats]

The same topics have been gone over so many times.

Let's discuss two different people:

Black Rock
DrumBeats

I am still not sure what Black Rock was trying to do leaping on S~V~S like she did when Long Con was human awfulness.

With DrumBeats:

I see that some people, notably sig and Zebra, have shown adamant intent on voting me today. I have a couple of questions for you:

1) Don't you think that if I were mafia and buddies with DrWilgy, I would have rather warned him about the mispell on BTSC chat and hide from any suspicion whatsoever?
2) If, in fact, Wilgy only got immune because of the correct spelling AND he's really mafia, does that make me more of a baddie than he and therefore I should be the one getting lynched instead of the confirmed Cylon?

There's some food for thought.

No, but the way you instantly jumped in with "He's Capricia Six" makes me suspect you hard. Especially if he actually flips Capricia Six, which you would know he was if you were mafia.

Wilgy is the obvious lynch choice here guys. If you want to throw Glorf in front to bait a claim that's fine, but Wigly needs to at least be second for the following reasons:

1) He is a nonconfirmed cylon. So many people have cleared him based on speculation that he is Cap Six, but the statistic odds that he is are slim. Additionally, his lynch was due to scummy behavior in the first place, how does that translate into he's clearly Six?

2) Should he somehow flip Six, we get a ton of information out of it. We will know that there are no more town-aligned cylons left other than Epig, which will help us to not deal with this again. And we will be able to reasonably concluded that Polo is likely mafia for reasons stated above.

Wilgy should be today's lynch and Sig should be tomorrow's. We can set up claim baits over top of them, but the end goal should be lynching these two.

Glorf, if you are not a cylon, you will claim cylon right now to not detract us from the Wilgy lynch. Anything else from you at this point is extremely antitown behavior.

That huge bit- doesn't it work both ways? If DrumBeats knows Wilgy's role, then he is setting Polo up.

1) I don't know what "nonconfirmed Cylon" means. However, this is pushing a DrWilgy lynch based on old evidence and dismissing new evidence ("Bah, he can't be 6 because statistics, see? But look, it was his scummy behavior what got him lynched the first time anyways, see?").

2) Again, DrumBeats is playing both sides of the coin. He wants to lynch Wilgy on the basis of obtaining information. His #2 says "If my #1 is wrong, see, it's still okay, because we learn stuff." And how does he presume to know anything about who is a "town-aligned Cylon" or how many of those there are? Regarding Polo: If Polo is wrong about DrWilgy being 6, then DrumBeats suspects him, but DrumBeats ESPECIALLY suspects him if Polo is right. There's no wiggle room because of that word "especially" employed earlier.

DrumBeats ends his post with a warning (?) against Glorfindel.

1) Nonconfirmed cylon = not cleared town. My bad the wording was terrible.

2) That is true, you could say that about this. Would you rather I not voice my suspicions on their motivation. I am willing to express my thoughts on what is going on here and what the motivations behind the sudden "omg Wilgy is a cylon, he must be a town one" shift. Should you suspect me for it, that's up to you.

Yeah, it is up to me, and yeah, I do.

I would not rather you refrain from voicing your suspicions regarding their motivations. Is that what you took from my post? That I would prefer you not to speak? No, I would rather you speak, so I can figure you out. I do not believe you are genuine in what you have said.

You are going to get my vote if I can get enough support.

Again, that's all fair, but from what I understand, your suspicion on me is based upon me manipulating a town!Wilgy flip. If you are serious about this suspicion then I suggest we lynch Wilgy first, because I still believe Wilgy to be scum.

Looking further into the suspicion, you find it weird that I presume to have knowledge over who is town!cylon vs scum!cylon, but I am simply basing this on what every lore fan has posted in here since the beginning. I have never expressed certainty, but I know that a mafia game of this size will not have only 3-4 mafia. If we let confirmed cylons slip on the smaller chance that they are good, then we are not playing effectively. You are a different situation because your name was revealed.

You said I dismissed new evidence. Point me to this. Nobody has provided a reason why Wilgy is town. New evidence is that he is confirmed cylon. Point me to the new evidence.

[Epignosis]

Again, that's all fair, but from what I understand, your suspicion on me is based upon me manipulating a town!Wilgy flip.

Your understanding is wrong. My suspicion of you is setting up a scenario in which Polo looks bad either way. Walk me through a scenario where Polo looks good to you.

If you are serious about this suspicion then I suggest we lynch Wilgy first, because I still believe Wilgy to be scum.

We could lynch everybody but you first just to be sure, but nah.

Looking further into the suspicion, you find it weird that I presume to have knowledge over who is town!cylon vs scum!cylon, but I am simply basing this on what every lore fan has posted in here since the beginning. I have never expressed certainty, but I know that a mafia game of this size will not have only 3-4 mafia.

Are those exclamation points necessary? Are you coding something?

You do not know how many mafia are in this based on size. My first game here had sixteen civilians, twelve mafia, and two independents. The civilians won. What you claim to know is merely an unfounded assumption to me.

If we let confirmed cylons slip on the smaller chance that they are good, then we are not playing effectively. You are a different situation because your name was revealed.

Let them slip? Slip to where? Where are they going? Wilgy will be around. He's not going to fly off to the next galaxy, I don't think. If you are right about the numbers, then there are one, two, three, or four others left to find, depending on your interpretation of Lorab and nutella. There is no urgency, that I sense anyway, to lynch Wilgy. I find your sense of urgency false.

You said I dismissed new evidence. Point me to this. Nobody has provided a reason why Wilgy is town. New evidence is that he is confirmed cylon. Point me to the new evidence.

You're asking the wrong chap about that.

[DrumBeats]

The Defence of DrWilgy

I'm going to try this one last time before the votes start to fall in earnest

1. I am as certain that Wilgs is a civ cylon as I was the LC was Cain. You'll recall that I pushed hard for an LC lynch. Now that Cain is dead, everyone's life is better. Particularly civ cylons.

2. My belief that Wilgs is a civ cylon is not a hunch or gut-based. It is a logical deduction that follows from his posts. The only question is rather or not Wilgs was being honest. I think in context its quite apparent he was. I'd say he's been perfectly honest ever since he declared.

3. For those posting that Wilgs can't be a civ cylon because Caprica 6 is the last one and the math doesn't work, you are incorrect. Leoben is also a civ cylon.

A. He sided against Cavil in the cylon rebellion, along with D'Anna, Caprica 6, and Athena. He also aids Roslin during Gaeta's mutiny, and has a Starbuck connection. He is not part of the Cavil clique, group, faction, or whatever you want to call it.
B. It makes more sense in terms of game balance that this role be civ.

Since Wilgy never claimed to be Caprica 6 and has frequently pointed this out, I'm guessing he is Leoben. The only people with an interest in killing Leoben are Cavil's faction and any humans who still want to kill all cylons.

More lore knowledge on Leoben helps make me believe there could be another pro-town cylon. However, I am still not as convinced that Wilgy is Leoben as you are.

The bold/underlined though is still setting up a push on people for suspecting Wilgy, who is still not confirmed Leoben. If Wilgy's lynch occurred in a similar manner to Epig's where we found out who he was and he flipped Leoben, I would understand this. But for how unknown it is, I do not like how certain you are that Wilgy is Leo.

[DrumBeats]

Again, that's all fair, but from what I understand, your suspicion on me is based upon me manipulating a town!Wilgy flip.

Your understanding is wrong. My suspicion of you is setting up a scenario in which Polo looks bad either way. Walk me through a scenario where Polo looks good to you.

Right now, I do not like the certainty that Wilgy is town from both Polo and Dex, and regardless of the situation, that strikes me as a scum mindset. Scumteam knows more information than we do, and from what I can see on the role list, the cop only knows cylon or not, so the only way to suddenly be that sure in my opinion is to be scum. I doubt both are scum though, because both seem to be good enough players not to associate themselves so closely. Should Wilgy flip mafia, this certainty becomes much less suspicious imo, but it still has potential scum motives of a risky move to protect him.

Basically:
Wilgy flips town ---> Scum read on Polo/Dex - Willing to push it
Wilgy flips scum ---> Null read with a slight scum lean on Polo/Dex - Only willing to push if I find something else

If you are serious about this suspicion then I suggest we lynch Wilgy first, because I still believe Wilgy to be scum.

We could lynch everybody but you first just to be sure, but nah.

This was due to my thoughts about where your suspicion was based. Since it wasn't based on that like I thought it was then disregard it.

[quote="Epignosis]

Looking further into the suspicion, you find it weird that I presume to have knowledge over who is town!cylon vs scum!cylon, but I am simply basing this on what every lore fan has posted in here since the beginning. I have never expressed certainty, but I know that a mafia game of this size will not have only 3-4 mafia.

Are those exclamation points necessary? Are you coding something?

You do not know how many mafia are in this based on size. My first game here had sixteen civilians, twelve mafia, and two independents. The civilians won. What you claim to know is merely an unfounded assumption to me.[/quote]

This all must be culture clash then I guess. I have never played a game with that kind of setup and I cannot feasibly see how that would be balanced. If you can link me that game, I would love to look at it out of curiosity.

The exclamation point is commonly used on my homesite to imply a hypothetical.

If we let confirmed cylons slip on the smaller chance that they are good, then we are not playing effectively. You are a different situation because your name was revealed.

Let them slip? Slip to where? Where are they going? Wilgy will be around. He's not going to fly off to the next galaxy, I don't think. If you are right about the numbers, then there are one, two, three, or four others left to find, depending on your interpretation of Lorab and nutella. There is no urgency, that I sense anyway, to lynch Wilgy. I find your sense of urgency false.

Slip by. That is true though that lynching Wilgy does not need to happen today. My sense of "urgency" isn't even urgency, it is just that I see people making dangerous assumptions that Wilgy is "cleared town" at this point when he is more likely scum imo. I think he is the best current lynch because I believe him to be the most likely to flip scum.

You said I dismissed new evidence. Point me to this. Nobody has provided a reason why Wilgy is town. New evidence is that he is confirmed cylon. Point me to the new evidence.

You're asking the wrong chap about that.

Then why bring it up in an argument? How am I supposed to address this "new evidence" if you don't even know what it is?

[DrumBeats]

When I read your posts am I supposed to know you're catching up? Because I got that feeling as I read through the thread that you post before you digest fully and with as much context as possible. It's a bit confusing to read. I'm assuming your posts are well informed when you post them. Only to be fooled by the fact some of them are not. You could back track at anytime and declare something you have not read changed this or that.

Just something I noticed.

I did say, "Catching up" on my first post and have periodically pulled up old quotes that show where I'm at atm. I'm giving my thoughts as they develop right now.

[rabbit8]

Yes, in that post I knew you were catching up. This means nothing about how I think of your play. Hard for me to read in real time. I always have to go looking for what you're talking about.

[Epignosis]

I'd like other opinions on DrumBeats. I don't like his methodology or his conclusions.

[DrWilgy]

I'd like other opinions on DrumBeats. I don't like his methodology or his conclusions.

I agree with you. I need to review him myself before the day is over, I'm beginning to get baddie vibes from him based on what you have stated.

[Dex]

Why? I'm sure you said but I'm being lazy and would really appreciate and explanation from anyone who thinks declaring is civvie minded?

Cylons benefit by not declaring as it gives them a one-time get-out-of-lynch-free pass. Nothing happens to humans who declare. Cylons are therefore more motivated to not declare. It's just another piece of evidence to weigh - personally I find it a very useful one - when determining who's who. Or who' what, I guess.