GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[Golden]

Jay, what do you think of Golden?

I think he looks more town than not. I don't think it's terribly meaningful that he and I haven't agreed on all of our reads, and I think his stated reasons for disagreeing have generally been understandable. I also don't know that he'd be the type to call for/accept an insanification from a team mate on the first available day phase or use a first night kill on lynch bait like Vompatti. He's not my strongest town read, but I have no immediate issue with him.

Maybe that's my problem. There isn't much in mafia I won't do, and I might project that mindset onto other players.

You ask me why somebody would do or not do something. I counter with, that's exactly why. You question the usefulness of it, and therefore it is useful.

I think that's valid but also limited. This is a matter of strategy that not everyone may agree with, but I tend to think a baddie night kill can accomplish more than just that kind of WIFOM. It just seems like a weak choice to me. Vompatti is God's gift to baddies if he survives long enough; I don't know why people would throw away that advantage. I have a feeling Golden is closer to my own mindset on that point than many others (along with similarly-brained players like Sloonei and MP).

That's something Golden can contest or affirm as he pleases.

I agree, but I'd go a step further. I don't think that this kind of WIFOM actually moves the needle meaningfully on your chances of being voted for. Those who think you are bad will simply see it as a ploy. So, I tend to see it as something that can only damage your game (through not making meaningful and impactful choices of your power use) for no tangible gain.

I only see value in cursing one of your own team members if there is a tangible reason that it can be used as a meaningful distancing tactic in some way, close to end game.

I think people like Marmot do it more for fun than for anything.

[Golden]

Having said all of that - there could easily be redirects somewhere in the secrets, so I wouldn't presume Vompatti was the target of the kill, or that I was the target of the curse, necessarily.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Having said all of that - there could easily be redirects somewhere in the secrets, so I wouldn't presume Vompatti was the target of the kill, or that I was the target of the curse, necessarily.

Yes, that's true. Who knows.

Who else is here for those GTH reads? The thread seemed to be moving a minute ago, let's go people.

[Marmot]

Jay, what do you think of Golden?

I think he looks more town than not. I don't think it's terribly meaningful that he and I haven't agreed on all of our reads, and I think his stated reasons for disagreeing have generally been understandable. I also don't know that he'd be the type to call for/accept an insanification from a team mate on the first available day phase or use a first night kill on lynch bait like Vompatti. He's not my strongest town read, but I have no immediate issue with him.

Maybe that's my problem. There isn't much in mafia I won't do, and I might project that mindset onto other players.

You ask me why somebody would do or not do something. I counter with, that's exactly why. You question the usefulness of it, and therefore it is useful.

I think that's valid but also limited. This is a matter of strategy that not everyone may agree with, but I tend to think a baddie night kill can accomplish more than just that kind of WIFOM. It just seems like a weak choice to me. Vompatti is God's gift to baddies if he survives long enough; I don't know why people would throw away that advantage. I have a feeling Golden is closer to my own mindset on that point than many others (along with similarly-brained players like Sloonei and MP).

That's something Golden can contest or affirm as he pleases.

I agree, but I'd go a step further. I don't think that this kind of WIFOM actually moves the needle meaningfully on your chances of being voted for. Those who think you are bad will simply see it as a ploy. So, I tend to see it as something that can only damage your game (through not making meaningful and impactful choices of your power use) for no tangible gain.

I only see value in cursing one of your own team members if there is a tangible reason that it can be used as a meaningful distancing tactic in some way, close to end game.

I think people like Marmot do it more for fun than for anything.

If I have a curse role on my mafia team, I would absolutely suggest using it on my teammates.

It's difficult for a civilian to provide meaningful content for a whole day while being cursed, and there's a certain hangover to not participating for that period. That's the perfect excuse for mafia to not have to fake content for that same duration.

Plus, WIFOM. Say what you will, but I've been fairly successful with it.

Linki: Let's do it! I have to work in an hour, so I'd like them to happen sooner than later.

[Golden]

A PERSON
BWT
BOOMSLANG
DOM

[Marmot]

A PERSON
BWT
BOOMSLANG
DOM

Good
Bad
Good
Good

[Golden]

A PERSON
BWT
BOOMSLANG
DOM

Slight bad
Moderate town
Slight town
Slight bad

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A PERSON
BWT
BOOMSLANG
DOM

good

good

good

bad

[Marmot]

Follow along everyone! And do what I do. (Except substitute good/bad for your own appropiate read)

[Golden]

EPIGNOSIS
GOLDEN
JJJ
LORAB

[JaggedJimmyJay]

EPIGNOSIS
GOLDEN
JJJ
LORAB

good

good

good egg

bad

[Epignosis]

EPIGNOSIS
GOLDEN
JJJ
LORAB

ME
YOU
THAT GUY
THAT GAL

[Golden]

EPIGNOSIS
GOLDEN
JJJ
LORAB

Moderate town
My sweetest friend
Moderate town
Slight bad

[Marmot]

EPIGNOSIS
GOLDEN
JJJ
LORAB

Good
Bad
Good
Good

[Golden]

MARMOT
MP
NINJA
SCOTTY

[JaggedJimmyJay]

MARMOT
MP
NINJA
SCOTTY

good

good

bad

bad

[Golden]

MARMOT
MP
NINJA
SCOTTY

Moderate bad
Moderate town
Strong town
Slight town

[Marmot]

MARMOT
MP
NINJA
SCOTTY

Bad
Bad
Bad

[Golden]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

[JaggedJimmyJay]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

good

good

good

good

[Golden]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

Moderate bad
Slight town
Strong town
Moderate town

[Marmot]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

Good
God
Good
Good

[Golden]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

Good
God
Good
Good

Stop sucking up to sloonei!

[Marmot]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

Good
God
Good
Good

Stop sucking up to sloonei!

It was an unintentional typo that I didn't feel like fixing. :P

[nijuukyugou]

Ugh. Long fucking day. Long fucking week. Thank god tomorrow is Friday. But it is Thursday, and it is the first half of the lynch day, and I don't want to go without posting and trying to keep up. I will respond to this tonight, and see where I go from there (I do, after all, have cookies cooling on the counter that need frosting in about 15 minutes :P )

nijuukyugou, both of your votes on the first two days have landed on outlier wagons which were unlikely to develop into lynches.

My apologies - I've been busier/more tired than I thought the past two days, and am currently out enjoying tasty Mediterranean, so haven't had time to do the insightful investigation I wanted, nor do I have it now. Gonna vote JJJ because he's tricky and reactions to said vote may give me good insight/info. May the reactions commence!

Back to foods now.

I agree with this today - I can at least vouch for the busy-ness as defense.

I've gotta do a thing for work for the next (hopefully NOT!) two hours, starting in the next 8 minutes, so I gotta vote. I also don't like the trains going on so far - votes for A Person, what I noticed, are either for being inactive or for a comment about "killing off the actives," which I took as a joke. Not good baddie hunting, IMO. The others with votes? Not feeling strongly enough about any of them to go their way, although I'd really like to take a look at slippery JJJ again, especially when he's not cursed/"cursed."

Anyway, going off my pathetic ISO (but at least it was an ISO of some sort), I'm going to vote Scotty (tough call with Wilgy in there, too). People keep mentioning that his vote for Epi was suspicious, but not acting on it, so I suppose I'll do it.

Now, time to monitor fundraising!

Linki - Really? Because it sounds like AP not wanting to read anything. Like, not for any particular reason - just that he doesn't feel like reading a massive thread. Quite a negative way to put it, though, I'll agree, but seems too easy.

In the first one, you assert there's a reaction-oriented directive and I don't believe you followed up on that. Questions:

~ What did your vote for me on Day 1 tell you about me or anyone else?
~ Why did you elect to vote for Scotty over Wilgy (you called it a "tough call")?
~ What are you referring to when you call me "tricky" and "slippery" in each of these posts? I feel like Hillary Clinton.

1) More than anything, with that vote (besides, y'know, catching a baddie), I was hoping to get stupid bandwagon-y/low-hanging fruit reactions for a "weird" vote. Reactions: MP called it a throwaway. Meh. Don't like that. No vote in a changeable vote system is a throwaway, especially at EoD. (I should say, I don't like that it's called that. I feel pretty good about MP, actually, which...now makes me feel like I should really look back at him, lol.) You reacted in such a way as to point out its "reaction-baiting" as being ineffective, which is a good point, I suppose. Then again, it did get you talking, didn't it? :P But as far as I can see, that's pretty much the reaction it got, probably because of your point. One of the downsides of being a ninja Blooper is not getting a reaction/response to ninja posts when I want them, alas.

2) Straight up, it was nearly a coin flip. I even nearly switched to Wilgy when I could check in later during that stupid work thing, but I kept it on Scotty. What tipped it, I suppose, was the fact that while Wilgy was being weird Wilgy (and, alas, good weird Wilgy), Scotty had suspicious behavior that I and others pointed out, yet not many people were acting on those suspicions, and I wanted to do so. I like going after what's under the surface because it's so easy to hide.

3) Transistor. Is it anything in particular in this game? Not at the moment, and I keep wanting to take a look back at you, but a) I am doing more work than expected before the holidays and b) you have a ridiculous amount of posts to ISO. I'd like to get to it. I plan to get to it. You give me the same vibe now that LC gives me after he bamboozled me in Monty Python, and I will never take the eye off of you. Ever. Take it as a compliment, you bad good baddie goodie whatever you are, you.

That's all for now. Hope to get more caught up in bits and pieces tomorrow if I get breaks, and have a more solid vote reasoning than I have been. Suggestions welcome.

Linki - Oooh, I see GTH! And colors!

[timmer]

I have no feeling at all on some of these players, I need to step it up.

[Marmot]

That leaves sig and MP that have not posted today.

Sig hasn't logged on since Tuesday, MP has, but hasn't posted much otherwise.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

1) More than anything, with that vote (besides, y'know, catching a baddie), I was hoping to get stupid bandwagon-y/low-hanging fruit reactions for a "weird" vote. Reactions: MP called it a throwaway. Meh. Don't like that. No vote in a changeable vote system is a throwaway, especially at EoD. (I should say, I don't like that it's called that. I feel pretty good about MP, actually, which...now makes me feel like I should really look back at him, lol.) You reacted in such a way as to point out its "reaction-baiting" as being ineffective, which is a good point, I suppose. Then again, it did get you talking, didn't it? :P But as far as I can see, that's pretty much the reaction it got, probably because of your point. One of the downsides of being a ninja Blooper is not getting a reaction/response to ninja posts when I want them, alas.

I can appreciate that you were willing to take an unorthodox approach under time restrictions, even if you may have sold your play before it could develop. I don't agree with your assessment of throwaway votes and I do agree with MP's, but I also acknowledge that this is an accusation I have hurled before to unfavorable results (hi Quin). Would you say you're one to vote on your own without concern for the prevalence of other wagons in general?

2) Straight up, it was nearly a coin flip. I even nearly switched to Wilgy when I could check in later during that stupid work thing, but I kept it on Scotty. What tipped it, I suppose, was the fact that while Wilgy was being weird Wilgy (and, alas, good weird Wilgy), Scotty had suspicious behavior that I and others pointed out, yet not many people were acting on those suspicions, and I wanted to do so. I like going after what's under the surface because it's so easy to hide.

I look forward to seeing what you learned from this maneuver if anything.

3) Transistor. Is it anything in particular in this game? Not at the moment, and I keep wanting to take a look back at you, but a) I am doing more work than expected before the holidays and b) you have a ridiculous amount of posts to ISO. I'd like to get to it. I plan to get to it. You give me the same vibe now that LC gives me after he bamboozled me in Monty Python, and I will never take the eye off of you. Ever. Take it as a compliment, you bad good baddie goodie whatever you are, you.

The same to you, Madame Process.

[triceratopzeuhl]

what does GTH stand for

[timmer]

Hold onto your hats, I may have found a case, thanks to your GTH making me realize there was someone I hadn't read yet.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

what does GTH stand for

"gun to head", it refers to gut reads made in the moment "as if a gun was to the head", and no neutral/null allowed. It forces a stance.

[Dom]

timmer: the timing thing. Right now, it's the scummiest thing I've seen.

nijuu: her Day 2 vote. She voted Scotty because other people were talking about him, not because she read him as bad.
MP: He claimed that my accusation against timmer based on timing is historically inaccurate, but could not come up with an example (these two things don't go together)
sig: Similar to nijuu, his Day 2 vote.

Ninja suspicion - factually incorrect

Trice: Seems like Epi vote was a placeholder at first, but morphed into a "real" vote (as in, one that stuck) after responding to people's questioning the train. I see his reasoning (Epi's lack of on-topic posts, frustration at the song gimmick, etc.) although I disagree with it. Appears like a genuine vote (I wanted to be more eloquent, but I'm running out of steam after a long day).

Wilgy: Errrrrr...why are people saying Scotty's vote is the most suspicious on this train? I get that Wilgy's a nut, but Wilgy offers literally no reasoning for his vote except #lynchepi. So, yeah, that first question is a genuine question. Answer it.

Scotty: From reading his posts on Days 0 and 1 (according to the headings), it appeared like he would vote one of his "gut-baddie" reads (JJJ, Sloonei, actually votes BWT as a changeable vote), but votes Epi. I see that he said vote "something that matters," which I assume is a vote somewhere that already had votes, and he didn't go with INH because...well, actually, I'm not sure why, more than Epi. Gave a bit of a vouch as far as INH's content, but said it could've been suspicious by trying to look good? Anyway, his Epi vote, as others have said, is pretty weird. However, he is helping insanified Golden currently, which looks helpful and civ to me, barring weirdness behind the scenes.

So, I suppose what I get from that is Trice's vote looks the most genuine, Wilgy's absolute nonsense (not helpful), and Scotty's disingenuous. Discuss.

MP suspicion - daft. I came up with an example immediately (LC hounding me about what I did in 17 minutes in Bullets Over Broadway). Why does MP need to come up with a different one? Especially when your Timmer suspicion is the most contrived thing that this game has seen (and is my primary reason for suspecting you) - you completely ignored everything else timmer had said and done.

Sig suspicion - apparently 'similar to ninja', but the ninja suspicion was wrong, and how similar was it?

It just felt like you pulled three names taking a little heat out of the air and said whatever you could think of.

/i support this analyss


i'm very tired guys. i'm sorry.

Regarding timmer's beefs with BWT:

I'm reading this similarly to the Boomslang controversy of Day 2. It looks like an inconsistency or a logical error so careless that I feel like I have to invoke WIFOM. The passage of one minute between his support of my collected quotes/his Boomslang vote and his questioning of Marmot for doing the same would represent a rather nonsense mistake for a mafioso. Did he forget his own vote or what he was doing in the space of one minute? Does anyone make that error as a baddie?

BWT, please explain your intentions when you questioned Marmot for his Boomslang vote after you'd placed your own.

Why are you invoking WIFOM?

Because sometimes WIFOM is logical. There are circumstances where it is legitimately sensible, even necessary, to ask whether a baddie would be likely to do some certain thing or make some certain error. I think the notion that BWT goofed up with a read he expressed and then questioned from someone else over the course of a short time is dubious enough that it should be stated as such. I think a lot of people are just by nature afraid to allow their brains to enter any territory resembling WIFOM, but I am not among them.

I do think the inconsistency is worth exploring; I just don't think it's a clear-cut scum indicator or slip.

I don't get why you invoked it for BWT.

Regarding timmer's beefs with BWT:

I'm reading this similarly to the Boomslang controversy of Day 2. It looks like an inconsistency or a logical error so careless that I feel like I have to invoke WIFOM. The passage of one minute between his support of my collected quotes/his Boomslang vote and his questioning of Marmot for doing the same would represent a rather nonsense mistake for a mafioso. Did he forget his own vote or what he was doing in the space of one minute? Does anyone make that error as a baddie?

BWT, please explain your intentions when you questioned Marmot for his Boomslang vote after you'd placed your own.

Why are you invoking WIFOM?

Because sometimes WIFOM is logical. There are circumstances where it is legitimately sensible, even necessary, to ask whether a baddie would be likely to do some certain thing or make some certain error. I think the notion that BWT goofed up with a read he expressed and then questioned from someone else over the course of a short time is dubious enough that it should be stated as such. I think a lot of people are just by nature afraid to allow their brains to enter any territory resembling WIFOM, but I am not among them.

I do think the inconsistency is worth exploring; I just don't think it's a clear-cut scum indicator or slip.

I don't get why you invoked it for BWT.

[Dom]

i am sad to see a bunch of you guys read me as bad. i will try and prove you wrong.

[Golden]

i am sad to see a bunch of you guys read me as bad. i will try and prove you wrong.

I can never read you anyway.

[timmer]

Dom.

He has 64 posts.

Day 0 - no mention of Dr. Wilgy. Eyes MP a bit.

Day 1 - 1 jokey interaction with the Dr. (you bad bro? nah bro.) and a follow-up post that is suspicion/ping/etc free. Refers to a Scotty post as "mighty suspicious".

Night 1 - Back to calling MP suspicious. No mention of Wilgy.

Note, throughout these times Dom is interacting with quite a few players.

Day 2 - Starts with more MP talk. Interacts with MM about his vote on me. Goes back to MP again. Says Boomslang's vote on me makes no sense. But now we start getting into votes.

JJJ votes for Wilgy. JJJ of course, has a curse. Dom asks JJJ "Can you quote a reason why?"

JJJ links back to a string of pings from Sloonei.

Dom simply posts "Jay-- i'll bite.
*votes wilgy*"

When Wilgy died, Dom simply posted "rip wilgy
:/"

My thoughts: Dom has been quite post-y. He has given thoughts and interacted with a ton of players, and he has actually DISCUSSED all of the game's main threads - POE, MP's post count, Boomslang's weird vote, all of it. He's DISCUSSED these things. But Wilgy... it's like Dom just needed to plant a vote and grabbed the easiest thing with ZERO discussion. And then said nothing about why he went with JJJ in the first place. He never explained the vote at all.

The kicker? Dom's vote broke a tie. Boomslang and Wilgy were both at 3 votes when he voted, so Dom not only seems to have voted for Wilgy with ZERO discussion or thought given to it, but he actually put Wilgy into the LEAD with zero discussion or thoughts.

This reeks of baddieness. It also by association makes Boomslang look worse, but that would only be worth looking into if it were proven Dom was bad.

[timmer]

Sorry Dom, you can add me to the "think you are bad" pile. I'm voting you, for now.

[timmer]

I'll just add, re: Dom, that never during ny of his posts where she mentions that something is "suspicious"/"mighty suspicious" etc. did he ever push for it to become a thing. He said these things but never tried to make anything happen with any of them.

[Dom]

I'll just add, re: Dom, that never during ny of his posts where she mentions that something is "suspicious"/"mighty suspicious" etc. did he ever push for it to become a thing. He said these things but never tried to make anything happen with any of them.

I have found reasons to not. I don't think Jay, Scotty or Boom is bad anymore.

Hopefully, tomorrow I can participate a bit more. I must shower and sleep. I'll probably check in once or twice more before then, though.

[Dom]

But if you can't tell-- I'm eyeing a bird pretty hard.

[timmer]

But if you can't tell-- I'm eyeing a bird pretty hard.

Are you, though? The last thing I see that you said re: BWT (I'm assuming you mean BWT?) was: "I think BWT explained himself somewhat adequately" That doesn't sound like "eyeing pretty hard" to me, or am I misunderstanding what you meant?

[Marmot]

I saw timmer with the devil.

[Ricochet]

A Person has already missed 2 votes, which is against the rules.

What do you do to such players Ricochet?

[timmer]

I saw timmer with the devil.

I swear, that will never get old. Never.

[Dom]

But if you can't tell-- I'm eyeing a bird pretty hard.

Are you, though? The last thing I see that you said re: BWT (I'm assuming you mean BWT?) was: "I think BWT explained himself somewhat adequately" That doesn't sound like "eyeing pretty hard" to me, or am I misunderstanding what you meant?

Actually, that's false.

[timmer]

That still doesn't read like "eyeing a bird very closely" to me, but I acknowledge that I def. missed that post.

[Golden]

But if you can't tell-- I'm eyeing a bird pretty hard.

Are you, though? The last thing I see that you said re: BWT (I'm assuming you mean BWT?) was: "I think BWT explained himself somewhat adequately" That doesn't sound like "eyeing pretty hard" to me, or am I misunderstanding what you meant?

Actually, that's false.

Timmer said 'the last thing he saw that you said'.

So my question to you... did you post anything along the lines of what timmer said, that could have been the last thing he saw that you said? Or do you think it's entirely false, and you never said it.

[Sloonei]

I accidentally committed myself to 3 mafia games all at once. Sorry for being disappeared.

[Marmot]

SLOONEI

Bad

[Sloonei]

SLOONEI

Bad

I'd respond to this, but I'm silenced.

[Sloonei]

SIG
SLOONEI
TIMMER
TRICE

Good
God
Good
Good

You confront me, my child?