GY!BE Mafia [E.N.D.]

[Marmot]

Um, I just want to lynch drwilgy, jay, and sig kthanks.

[Epignosis]

Well then.

[Quin]

tch

[Epignosis]

I see Ricochet at least got the genders right this time.

[Golden]

Rezz please?

[Ricochet]

Apologies for the slight inaccuracies in the poll, my brain is in crash mode after nearly dosing off close to deadline, fixed now.

Night phase will end at 7:30 tomorrow, to correct the deadline.

48h/24h variants are to decide the next phase's length, of course.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Good grief.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

48 is always better than 24, especially with some of the people seldom active or catching up.

[Ricochet]

13 - N7.png (31.8 KiB) Viewed 775 times

[DrWilgy]

Um, I just want to lynch drwilgy, jay, and sig kthanks.

Y me tho

[Marmot]

Um, I just want to lynch drwilgy, jay, and sig kthanks.

Y me tho

Cuz bwt bro

[Marmot]

Civilians are toast, so please kill me tonight.

[Dom]

[Marmot]

Mafia dawn thoughts:


Epi
Quin
Wilgy
Dom
3J
MM
sig

Mafia Dawn Thoughts:

Epi
LoRab

Wilgy
Dom
3J
MM
sig

Motherfucker = Redeemer (2) Do not begin the game by sharing BTSC, but can search for each other during each Night (in addition to their individual ability). Can win as a team, if they gain BTSC. Randomly, one player will be assigned to role check a living player every odd Night. If the checked player is Mafia, it will have a 50% chance to also kill him. The other player will be assigned to role check a dead player every even Night. If the checked victim is Civilian, it will have a 50% chance to resurrect him. Both the kill and the resurrect will be activated automatically and work only once, regardless of the outcome. M=R can continue, however, to role check accordingly afterwards. Their assigned roles can be affected by Storm, once they gain BTSC.

If either checks ???, something will happen. If the role checker of the living checks Alfothad, something will happen to the checker.

Spoiler: show

[sig]

Looking over GMAN thing we literally have the same people mislynching and leading the lynches over and over again.

I'm eyeing Epi, Dom, and MM due to his list, but plan to ISO them and see what I see. I had some suspicion of MM, but nothing to lynch on before now though we have almost lynched MM twice, failed both times lynching civs instead and the people who were pushing his wagon were killed by the mafia. I want to try and lynch MM this phase again. Looking back the cases and points made against him are good , but like I said I'll ISO him at some point.

Also I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it is unlikely that both insanfiers are still alive. I think one is faking it.

Also there comes a point where if we have to lynch silenced/insaneified people then that is what we have to do. Especially if the mafia is doing it to their own.

What did you not have before you have now to lynch me?

What players have I led lynches on?

Since you were able to wiggly out of like three lynches with civs dying on each lynch. This coupled with the fact Epi and Dom, both of whom I suspected had been on the opposite wagon of yours was enough to make me think you were mafia.

Also it has come to my attention Epi is still alive, and well known for being very good at being mafia/SK. Maybe we should lynch him? Since from where I see it Either JJJ or Epi has to be mafia. There would be no reason for two town powerhouses who haven't really done that much this game to both still be alive.

[Marmot]

Well if you're a killing role, I suggest you kill Jay. Killing Epignosis won't do you any good.

[DrWilgy]

So I reviewed BWT's day 4 posts and I don't understand where his suspicion of marmot friend came from.

Oh well.

I saw that he had thought vomps was bad. After re reading the roles, I'm unsure why he thought this as well.

Oh well.

I'm gonna look at votes next, but am stuck on mobile.

Voting 48h!

[Ricochet]

Note: I am going to need a majority vote on the 24/48 issue.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rico:

Do you intend on dealing with the phases any unique way on Christmas Day? This isn't to imply you should or shouldn't, just asking.

[Ricochet]

Rico:

Do you intend on dealing with the phases any unique way on Christmas Day? This isn't to imply you should or shouldn't, just asking.

I'm hoping the game will conclude by then. If the next phase is decided to be 48h, that means it would conclude on Christmas Eve (the 24th). If by any shot of the imagination, there are steps to be resolved even beyond that, my expectations are to be able to do in quick tempo, on the spot.

To everyone: Christmas Eve, as far as I'm concerned, should not influence your 24 vs 48 decision. That poll is simply to decide which span is better for the next phase's proceedings.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm of the opinion that more time is always better than less for the civilian faction. If there's a reason we should go to 24 I'll hear y'all out.

[Marmot]

I'm of the opinion that more time is always better than less for the civilian faction. If there's a reason we should go to 24 I'll hear y'all out.

At this point, I don't know what we can accomplish in 48h that we can't accomplish in 24h.

[Marmot]

Plus, you and bwt can rub your victories in my face if the game ends when we see each other tomorrow.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

That's actually a great reason to go for 48 hours. I don't know how much time I'll even have to play this game tomorrow.

Also, you can't stick an accusation into OT text. That's relevant to the game.

[Marmot]

That's actually a great reason to go for 48 hours. I don't know how much time I'll even have to play this game tomorrow.

Also, you can't stick an accusation into OT text. That's relevant to the game.

Where's the accusation? Do you admit that you might win with an anti-civilian role? I think you did!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Where's the accusation? Do you admit that you might win with an anti-civilian role? I think you did!

You implied BWT and/or I are going to defeat you, and unless you're calling yourself a baddie that implies an accusation.

[Marmot]

Where's the accusation? Do you admit that you might win with an anti-civilian role? I think you did!

You implied BWT and/or I are going to defeat you, and unless you're calling yourself a baddie that implies an accusation.

I suppose I did.

Enjoy your victory marmot-slayer.

[DrWilgy]

Where's the accusation? Do you admit that you might win with an anti-civilian role? I think you did!

You implied BWT and/or I are going to defeat you, and unless you're calling yourself a baddie that implies an accusation.

BWT is ded tho...

[Ricochet]

[Ricochet]

[Ricochet]

14 - N8.png (44.46 KiB) Viewed 748 times

[Ricochet]

Night 8: Homecoming

Spoiler: show

[Marmot]

Ah.

[Marmot]

Now I'm glad we have 48 hours.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mladic delivered the kill, suggesting Sleep is gone. I thought it looked pretty clear that Quin and LoRab were M=R, which would imply Dom was Sleep. Sleep killed Night 7 but not Night 8. There's also the fact that if Sleep was alive, this game would likely be over -- 2 living mafia in a game of 4 players.

The lack of a SK kill is less clear cut. The SK killed Dom on Night 7, and the other two deaths were M=R if that reasoning holds. So I don't see how the SK could have been dead entering Night 8. It could have been sig, but there'd still be an SK kill. That would imply a roleblock or protection of some sort. The only alternative I see is either Quin or LoRab being the SK -- making me wonder how they could have pulled off that simultaneous reads list maneuver they did. Sorting this out is key, because there's a huge difference between 3 vs. 1 and 2 vs. 1 vs. 1.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to operate under the theory that Dom was Sleep and proceed with interactive reviews.

[DrWilgy]

When was this simultaneous read made?

We're Quins's and LoRab's interactions indicative of being btsc buddies?

I didn't realize how close the game was to coming to a close when I subbed in lol.

[DrWilgy]

I'd like for everyone to answer why they are alive.

I'm probably alive because I still don't know what is going on.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When was this simultaneous read made?

We're Quins's and LoRab's interactions indicative of being btsc buddies?

I didn't realize how close the game was to coming to a close when I subbed in lol.

These two posts came at almost the same time on Night 7:

Mafia Dawn Thoughts:

Epi
LoRab

Wilgy
Dom
3J
MM
sig

Mafia dawn thoughts:


Epi
Quin
Wilgy
Dom
3J
MM
sig

Like a coordinated effort by the two of them to co-reveal as BTSC pals without abjectly infodumping.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'd like for everyone to answer why they are alive.

I'm probably alive because I still don't know what is going on.

Probably because I look like an auto-lynch given the crap I've taken all game long and most specifically trice calling me the SK.

[sig]

jerks I last so long to.

[sig]

jerks I last so long to.

lasted* death didn't improve my writing skills.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dom and birdwithteeth11 / DrWilgy 2.0

Dom's posts about BWT/Wilgy:

Spoiler: show

I think I would have liked to leave my vote on bwt.

Care to elaborate?

Prodded Scotty to expand on his Day 1 suspicion of BWT.

Spoiler: show

BWT why did you ask Epi that question when he had already answered it?

A little shade is implied in this question but not outright stated.

Spoiler: show

bwt - i thought it was weird that he called jay's curse a "code". that seems specific. i also have had other issues, i definitely questioned him on it, but i can't remember them off the top of my head.
mm - i feel like he has wiggled his way into and out of the spot light many times and i still don't like this whole timmer/boomslang business he's pushing. i don't trust this.
nju - i appreciate the commentary coming out of today so far, but i'd like to hear more from her. she's normally someone who i look forward to reading.

Dom made this "code" thing a consistent point of grief in his treatment of BWT. I think that's a decent look, because I rarely see mafia members trying to nail their teammates for "slippy" stuff like this -- they more commonly sweep it under the rug by talking about anything else.

Light contest of timmer's suspicion of BWT and questioning of my defense of BWT simultaneously.

Dom's own stance on BWT is muddy here because of this two-way kind of griping.

Spoiler: show

But if you can't tell-- I'm eyeing a bird pretty hard.

Are you, though? The last thing I see that you said re: BWT (I'm assuming you mean BWT?) was: "I think BWT explained himself somewhat adequately" That doesn't sound like "eyeing pretty hard" to me, or am I misunderstanding what you meant?

Actually, that's false.

Dom made a point of expressing his beef with BWT here, and redirected timmer to his "code" thing when his stated BWT read was questioned/contested.

Spoiler: show

MM moved his vote from JJJ to BWT of all people, when he could have moved it to me to force a tie. Does this have anything to do with him saying he wanted to be lynched earlier? Does he have a protect or similar power?

The toothy bird is evil. His life should be taken before that of any marmot (especially the innocent Rosa). He's in league with the evil JagBear!

Why do you think BWT waited for others to vote you?

Dom asked Marmot this question about BWT, showing he'd observed something questionable but not stating his own stance.

Spoiler: show

I'm tired of lynching civilians. Between this game and Lost Again, I'm feeling emotionally taxed.

I'll see what ISO digging I can do tomorrow.

Let's chat now!

Talk to me about nijuu. She made a single post during EoD, and that was a drive-by vote of me.

I think it was three, but I have been asking for more scrutiny on nju. I actually posted about this earlier, as well as the points you made on BWT--- trying to get people to talk about it. To no avail.

Laments that others didn't seem to be talking about MM's beefs with BWT, if I understand this correctly.

BWT is GTH bad on Day 5. I think that's what his coding meant at least.

Spoiler: show

There are three players in contention for my vote today:

DrWilgy
Wilgy replaced BWT, my top suspect. I want to give the Doc a chance, but jeez, BWT looked bad to me. Prove me wrong, Doc.

LoRab
LoRab's game, lately, has not been what I might have expected. What I am most freaked out about is that she doesn't seem to have much conviction this game. If BWT/Wilgy flips bad, then I would put her as my next top suspect. If not, then she stays relatively low on this list. As of now, she is least likely to get my vote of these three.

Sig
Sig only appears when he is under pressure.

After Wilgy replaced in for BWT, Dom clarified him as being his top suspect. The highlighted portion here looks like an unreasonable demand of Wilgy -- to change his [already made up] mind without having a fair grasp of the game to that point. That's a nice look for BWT/Wilgy.

Spoiler: show

I think MM is a civ. I am a civ. I think Epi is a civ. You think we're bad because of G-Man's analysis? Why did you leave out BWT/Wilgy? Is he your teammate?

This was directed at sig. It's a bit tinfoil but this does look like an attempt at drawing a false link between sig and BWT, something that is more sensible in a world where BWT is bad.

Spoiler: show

MM
because BWT/Wilgy is likely bad imo and jumped on that train late-- waiting for timmer to move first. People mischaracterized his behavior while insanified.

This was Dom's response to my asking him why he read the Marmot as a townie. He attributed that read to the voting behavior of BWT.

Spoiler: show

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

The only reason why I haven't voted Wilgy yet is because I want to give him a fair footing in this game.

Wilgy has said he will catch up and post his thoughts. I understand he might not read detailed, but I'm awaiting those thoughts before I vote for him. Perhaps that will convince me to not vote for him.

Dom kept the pressure on through Day 7. In these posts it really looks to me like Dom is just pretending to give Wilgy a "fair chance", because what he was asking for was never reasonable in the first place. And on that front, I think it's a good look for BWT/Wilgy.

~~~~~

BWT/Wilgy's posts about Dom:

Spoiler: show

- Nothing on Dom yet. Other than his naturally inquisitive self.

This was in BWT's list of Day 1 reads. It's a rather pointless inclusion.

Spoiler: show

How do other people feel about that line?
I don't feel great about it.

I mean, that is the one major crux of the POE methodology I've seen so far that I hadn't considered myself. It would certainly be very easy for a baddie to hide behind if they adopted the strategy early on and were very successful at it. But I think if you had enough players participating in that strategy in a game (maybe at least 50% of them?), and continued to do so throughout, then you could eventually whittle down 1) the options the baddies have for good kills, and 2) the number of people who aren't civs.

Not a perfect strategy, but I get the idea of approaching the game from a different angle for the same result.

As for how I actually feel about it in the moment? Ehhhhh....yeah, it doesn't look good.

I just feel there is enough context outside of this one thought bubble though that it doesn't do much other than make me slightly quizzical.

This was in response to MP's discussion of POE. Dom prodded everyone for thoughts and BWT's response is reads-neutral.

Spoiler: show

then i dont' see your confusion tbh

i thught mp was being way too LOOK AT ME I AM A CIVVIE

it had nothing to do with lorab zat zall

That is me like every game though, isn't it?

I wouldn't say so.

I would actually agree with this. MP seems much more inquisitive and wanting to get down to business, with not many jokey post scattered in there. This does have a different feel from him in terms of his content so far.

BWT joined Dom in this little light poking of MP.

This whole exchange looks innocent to me[/url] re: BWT. It looks more like Dom flinging mud and seeing what sticks.

Spoiler: show

I think BWT explained himself somewhat adequately, but I want to know who he would advocate a lynch of besides himself

Lol nice one there.

Right now GTH, I would say A Person and MM (although not as much now). But neither of those is very strong. That's why I want to re-read Lorab and possibly focus elsewhere today. Because I'm not as confident about any strong or weak mafia suspects I had from Day 2.

Chummy.

Spoiler: show

I'd like to know what others think of Scotty right now. Each time I look at the player list his name stands out loudly to me.

I kind of feel the same way about him as Dom. I think both have struggled to find their grounding in this game. You quote Dom's self-assessment as proof of this. I think Scotty's is a bit different, in the sense that every time he tries to catch up, he fails and falls further and further behind.

I read Scotty as bad earlier. And I do think a baddie could use the "not caught up" excuse for quite awhile before the ruse becomes apparent. But I do not feel like I am seeing that from Scotty yet.

I do feel like he never stated what he saw from me that made me think he was bad though. So I am curious if he does come back soon to know what that is.

Compares Dom to Scotty, seems a little more negative in his assessment of Scotty. /// Affirmed here -- it should be noted that at this point in the game I had the same perspective. That's what inspired this dialogue in the first place.

Spoiler: show

I'd like to know where people stand on Dom, as well. I still feel there is a good chance of him being bad, but if I'm still on an island with that, I'll keep it on the back burner.

With Dom, most of the game I was neutral, leaning baddie. But he's slowly moved the needle to neutral, leaning civ. I would like more from him, but what I have seen I am okay with. Throwing out some questions, slightly argumentative/defensive, doesn't care too much about heat or blowback.

Like I said, the main argument I would give for him is that I could stand to see more from him. Especially given we are up to Day 4 now.

I don't recall seeing much evidence of this being BWT's read on Dom.

Spoiler: show

if poll trickery kills me anyway, and I don't have the opportunity, somebody please check voting patterns of my mafia 3 shortlist, as posted earlier

I have been civ reading scotty most of the game but he could just be a good liar... he's one of the 3 people who appear multiple times in my lead lists

Well I feel better about Lorab right now. So I would lean either Scotty or Dom as the potential mafia person on your list.

Calls Dom a suspect alongside LoRab in response to trice's suspect list.

~~~~~

There's a little of everything in this review. What I think looks the best for BWT/Wilgy is Dom's most recent handling of that player slot -- he has voiced clear and consistent suspicion of them, and the "space" he was giving to Wilgy to catch up just looked very fake. That looks more like opportunism than distancing to me. On the flip side, BWT's read on Dom didn't develop in a way that is easy to follow or understand, and that's not great.

Overall, I think the positive point is more inspired than the negative.

I'll reiterate that this entire exercise is based upon the theory that Dom was Sleep. If any of you has a reason to theorize something else, speak up.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dom and Epignosis

Dom's posts about Epignosis:

Spoiler: show

Shit sorry guys I'm like 8 pages behind, but Epi is still hiding behind his crutch and I wanna vote for something that matters.

I've gotta go but I will respond later to those that are on my ass

Epi

This is mighty suspicious tbh

Defensive of Epi in response to Scotty's Day 1 vote.

Spoiler: show

I am less thrilled with the Epi wagon. It seems lazy or worse to get through this thick pile of posts from Day 0 to now and arrive there. I also think "hiding behind a gimmick/roleplay" is a weak accusation that comes from baddies more often ghan the average accusation.

I've been criticized for this opinion before but I don't think lynching people who are purposely being useless is a terrible choice, even if they flip town.

go through each of epi's posts and show me the useless ones.

Again in response to trice.

Spoiler: show

I don't think it is unreasonable for BWT to ask Epi that question.

It Was a Dumb Question.

Maybe you have something to say about one of the people who made a case against BWT.

That wasn't really the question asked.

Sort of similar in response to Sloonei.

Spoiler: show

so who are the good guys and who are the bad guys

MetalMarsh is a bad guy, Epignosis is a good guy.

I agree with this.

States a town read on Epi through Sloonei.

Spoiler: show

BWT why did you ask Epi that question when he had already answered it?

Trend continues. / More.

Joins Epignosis in this criticism of MP.

Spoiler: show

I Gave Plenty of Reasoning

Fine.

What do you think of timmer and sig?

You're Just Trying to Get a Better Idea of Whom to Kill

What would this question do in that regard?

If I was a killer, I'd have my target picked already.

what does bad epi have to gain from this?

More defense.

More. / More. / More.

Spoiler: show

Vote birdwithteeth

VLAKNI IXJDAK CXVQQ

Fake.

VLAKNI IXJDAK CXVQQM LPUZDJ IQIEHI XXPVPY TKQMTB W

Curse banter. / More, this time in discussion of BWT[/url]

Town GTH read Day 5

Spoiler: show

I understand that if birdwithteeth gets lynched and comes back bad I'm going to get shit for it, but I don't care.

birdwithteeth11
4
Metalmarsh89 (2), JaggedJimmyJay (9), Scotty (11), Quin (12)

Quite a party.

MM, who survived a lynch in a game where the civilians can skip a Night, block all actions including the kill, have BTSC and potential BTSC, a serious numbers advantage, among other abilities and secrets, is the first to vote birdwithteeth (a guy who apparently hasn't been around). If birdwithteeth is bad, I'd still say MM threw him under the bus (keep in mind, MM is the sort who Night killed his own teammate before).

The second is probably the serial killer and despite what he tells you, doesn't care who dies.

The third is a guy who has hardly been around.

The fourth is someone who recently subbed in, and whose best judgment was to keep a killer around simply because he posts "useful" things.

None of these votes seem well-informed or well-intentioned.

Not all of these people can be bad.

The first halfway-critical thing Dom has said to Epignosis. Barely.

Spoiler: show

I think MM is a civ. I am a civ. I think Epi is a civ. You think we're bad because of G-Man's analysis? Why did you leave out BWT/Wilgy? Is he your teammate?

Still a civilian read on Day 7.

Spoiler: show

Epi
I think he has had genuine suspiciouns and solid trains of thought throughout the game. i can understand his positions and think he was ganged up on needlessly. I don't think he is bad for these reasons.

His read explained. He called Epi genuine and suggested he was targeted opportunistically.

~~~~~

Epignosis's posts about Dom:

Spoiler: show

Dom posting the same way I'm criticizing JJJ and epignosis for - deliberately misleading when not outright lies in their accusations. Wouldn't be surprised if all three are bad, civvies can and do play honest the way virtually everybody else has been

YWQENFNGGIVBCNFFSXYKB

Cursed response to trice placing Dom and Epi in a team together (along with me). I dunno what Epi wanted to say, maybe he can clarify now.

Spoiler: show

Vote birdwithteeth

I feel like that's cheating.

Banter.

Questions Dom's suspicion of BWT and a few other things. No read is implied on Dom.

~~~~~

Conclusion:

Dom's read on Epignosis started great and stayed that way for his entire lifespan. He defended Epignosis constantly. In many cases that's not something that I'd find immediately problematic, but in this case we need to understand the player -- Epignosis. Has anyone ever naturally trusted him unconditionally in his entire Mafia career? Dom made no visible effort to explore his read on Epignosis or reassess it, it merely happened and never changed. Epignosis also said close to nothing about Dom and never made any clear read on him either. Indeed his most engaged treatment of Dom came when Dom was cursed.

Bad look.

[Marmot]

I'd like for everyone to answer why they are alive.

I'm probably alive because I still don't know what is going on.

Probably because I look like an auto-lynch given the crap I've taken all game long and most specifically trice calling me the SK.

This sounds a lot like me except for the trice/SK part.

[Marmot]

Epignosis gets a pass today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis gets a pass today.

Why?

[Marmot]

Epignosis gets a pass today.

Why?

I'll explain why I think he's definitely civilian (if he doesn't mind) when I get home.

Just now leaving the Bearcats' basketball game. What a thriller!!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Epignosis gets a pass today.

Why?

I'll explain why I think he's definitely civilian (if he doesn't mind) when I get home.

Just now leaving the Bearcats' basketball game. What a thriller!!

I welcome your thoughts. Fuck whether he minds. We can't dick around with only 4 people alive. I ask though that if you're a civilian, please remove the word "definitely" from your vocabulary. This is likely to be the last phase of the game and we need to be as thorough as possible. I think there are serious problems with Epi's Dom interactions.

[Epignosis]

Epignosis gets a pass today.

Why?

I'll explain why I think he's definitely civilian (if he doesn't mind) when I get home.

Just now leaving the Bearcats' basketball game. What a thriller!!

I welcome your thoughts. Fuck whether he minds. We can't dick around with only 4 people alive. I ask though that if you're a civilian, please remove the word "definitely" from your vocabulary. This is likely to be the last phase of the game and we need to be as thorough as possible. I think there are serious problems with Epi's Dom interactions.

No you don't.