Felt Mafia 2 [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I'll contradict myself and shrug your question off.

What is your read on me right now?

[thellama73]

The last 58 posts in the game have been made by 4 players. There are 12 others. Can we please hear from the peanut gallery?

[Long Con]

Long Con

Spoiler: show

Link to full post referenced below in pieces

I find myself agreeing with this.

Fair. The last post there is the one I liked from DDL because I've known him to be willing to lynch people for reasons that I'd call more strategy-relevant than alignment-relevant. You're correct though that there is hypocrisy in that given his empty posts before that.

I cannot recall seeing a time when hypocrisy had any connection to alignment. If anything, I would theorize that baddies are more likely to take care not to be a hypocrite, because their behaviour has a certain level of craft necessary... on the flip side, a Civ barrels forward, unconcerned for the most part with how they look as they find the baddies, and thus be easier targets for the hypocrisy accusation angle.

That isn't to say I want to defend DDL specifically, this is something I wish to monitor over multiple games, because I do see the hypocrisy accusation come up here and there. I don't think it holds water.

Long Con "found himself agreeing" with Epi's case against DDL. In the same post, he pooh-poohed my own agreement with Epi's observation of hypocrisy in DDL's posts. Indeed that was the central point of Epi's case -- that DDL expressed a willingness to lynch people who were discussing game mechanics instead of hunting while he himself had done no hunting either. So I don't understand how LC could simultaneously agree with Epi and disagree with me -- it's a paradox.

Epi makes case. JJJ affirms core element of Epi's case. LC agrees with Epi's case. LC disagrees with JJJ. How is this possible?

His vote for llama was 2nd out of 4, also before DDL received any votes (so it wasn't yet a "counterwagon"). I need to see an explanation for the above issue.

I think "paradox" is some extreme language to use. Unless you see every contradiction as a paradox.

The difference was when you used the word "hypocrisy". I brought it up in my last game, that I hadn't seen a correlation between accusations of hypocrisy and being a baddie. It's something I have thought about for a while, probably because of times when I have been accused of being a hypocrite (and therefore bad) when I was a Civ. I think that there are plenty of times when a Civ can be justly accused of hypocrisy, and I don't think that it's necessarily a Mafia tell. This time, it was a baddie that was accused of hypocrisy... but I think that hypocrisy is more of a sign of laziness or a lack of self-awareness, than an alignment tell.

Reading Epi's post about DDL, I thought "yeah, what's up with that, how can he accuse people of that and be acting like he was?" Neither Epi or I used the word "hypocrisy" to describe it, though I see that it was accurate. When you used the word, it triggered my broader notion of whether or not it's a baddie tell, and so I talked about that a bit.

If you want to call me a teammate of DDL because of it, I see your point... but it would be wrong. I can understand how you would be confused, JJJ. Sometimes the truth is as difficult to find footing in as a cliff edge made of marshmallows... but everything I have said is true.

And now I sleep. Good night!

[Quin]

Bad. It's been bad the whole game, actually.

Tell me this, 3J.

You haven't interacted to a decent degree with llama once in this game. You've sparked up conversations with me, Epi, Long Con, and basically everybody else who could be considered a high poster multiple times. But not llama. Why?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Bad. It's been bad the whole game, actually.

You're not interested in engaging the questions of your own suspect?

Tell me this, 3J.

You haven't interacted to a decent degree with llama once in this game. You've sparked up conversations with me, Epi, Long Con, and basically everybody else who could be considered a high poster multiple times. But not llama. Why?

I don't know what "decent degree" means, but I think that statement is untrue. I have interacted with llama about as much as Epignosis, and I am doing it right now. I have been extremely suspicious of Long Con so of course he has attracted more of my attention. Much of my dialogue with you was initiated and pressed by you. Allocation of focus in any Mafia game is circumstantial; I don't keep a running tally for the sake of balancing all attentions I give.

[Quin]

Bad. It's been bad the whole game, actually.

You're not interested in engaging the questions of your own suspect?

Tell me this, 3J.

You haven't interacted to a decent degree with llama once in this game. You've sparked up conversations with me, Epi, Long Con, and basically everybody else who could be considered a high poster multiple times. But not llama. Why?

I don't know what "decent degree" means, but I think that statement is untrue. I have interacted with llama about as much as Epignosis, and I am doing it right now. I have been extremely suspicious of Long Con so of course he has attracted more of my attention. Much of my dialogue with you was initiated and pressed by you. Allocation of focus in any Mafia game is circumstantial; I don't keep a running tally for the sake of balancing all attentions I give.

I will. But not now. I just don't want to talk about me anymore. That's not the legacy I intend to leave in this game.

No, you've talked about llama. Sure, you've asked him the occasional throwaway question. But you've never interacted with him. I've played with you enough to expect you have long discussions with as many players as you can in order to formulate and supplement your reads. That's just who you are. I find it strange that you aren't doing it with llama, my top suspect.

[Quin]

Why did you say you felt good about DDL for at least a moment at the beginning of the game?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I will. But not now. I just don't want to talk about me anymore. That's not the legacy I intend to leave in this game.

No, you've talked about llama. Sure, you've asked him the occasional throwaway question. But you've never interacted with him. I've played with you enough to expect you have long discussions with as many players as you can in order to formulate and supplement your reads. That's just who you are. I find it strange that you aren't doing it with llama, my top suspect.

I don't think your expectation of me is reasonable. The phases are short and my time is limited. I have the discussions that I have within the time available and that's that. It isn't possible for me to meet the criteria you lay out here. I have given more attention to the existence of llama than I have to most other players in this game. Some of that has been interaction and some of it has been description. I have crammed a great deal into this thread already, and the attentive balance of that cramming is not something I care about frankly.

[Quin]

I'm not suggesting I expect balance from you. You just haven't interacted with him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why did you say you felt good about DDL for at least a moment at the beginning of the game?

My immediate reaction to his willingness to "lynch people who discussed mechanics instead of hunting" was positive. It recalled things DDL has said as a civilian, sometimes as a matter of controversy -- primarily where he has brazenly called to lynch players for strategy-centric reasons rather than alignment-centric reasons. That's kind of his thing.

It was a read that suited the description I gave it: "at least one second". It was fleeting and by late Day 1 it was no longer my read -- as Epi's assertion was valid and DDL's activity level was well south of his civilian standard.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not suggesting I expect balance from you. You just haven't interacted with him.

With or without the quantity of direct interaction you expect, the name "llama" appears many times in my post history. If you suspect we're scum teammates, then okay. Without a more comprehensive case there's not much else I can say about this.

[Quin]

Why did you say you felt good about DDL for at least a moment at the beginning of the game?

These are DDL's posts before 3J put out his list of people he felt good about. The first three don't feel awfully game relevant. So there's just the one post. Is that enough?

Spoiler: show

Hey guys what's up.

This started suddenly. I was expecting it to take longer.

Been a while since I've last played a speed game here, I think. I love those.

Spoiler: show

No. I find it odd that the mafia have the potential for two kills every night if all 4 are mafia. Don't you?

That wasn't my interpretation. I thought the mafia team's sole killer was the dude with the straps -- that roll kills every night as long as both straps are intact. My first guess is that this means this role must be destroyed twice (once for each strap).

Mongoose, if you're able to clarify anything about this that'd be swell. If not, okee dokee.

Since there is only one Baddie/Mafia team, they have the ability to kill nightly.

With a maximum potential of 2 baddie nightkills each night, if both straps come loose?

This is an excellent question. The right strap can only kill on even nights and the left strap on odd nights, so it's impossible for both straps to be loose at the same night since a night cannot be both even and odd (watch llama have an explanation for how this is possible).

A number is considered oddly even if it is only divisible by one (1) even number.

So Night 2 will see two (2) nightkills.

I think you are mistaking odd numbers for prime numbers.

Spoiler: show

Can you guys stop harassing the host and do some baddie hunting? I found Sorsha. What have you done?

You must be fun at parties.

Once people get bored of your fez.

Spoiler: show

Here, have some thoughts. I thought these thoughts up.

Space station sounds like the best place to me!

You're bad.

I didn't hear you call dibs on the space station llama

I don't know how serious llama was about his initial accusation, but I do think Sorsha's response to it is suspicious. In the earliest stages of a game, it can be genuinely difficult for a baddie to respond to an assertive accusation, even when the baddie knows the accusation can't possibly be informed by anything substantial. There's still the matter of forcing out a response of some kind and trying to look legitimate in the process. Sometimes when I have found myself in that position, my response has been to offer a jokey retort to my accuser rather like Sorsha's here. The purpose is that it alleviates the pressure of the accusation by adding levity and humor to the exchange, and generally other players aren't going to be pinged by that. The problem is that it evidences a desire to respond without an accompanying desire to explore. Sorsha does not seem interested in why llama threw poop at her. I just typed a whole paragraph about that post you guys!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So there's just the one post. Is that enough?

One post is enough for one second. That's the point. Single posts fell into the thread and I gave hot takes.

[Quin]

I'm not suggesting I expect balance from you. You just haven't interacted with him.

With or without the quantity of direct interaction you expect, the name "llama" appears many times in my post history. If you suspect we're scum teammates, then okay. Without a more comprehensive case there's not much else I can say about this.

I'm not expecting a quantity. I'm expecting a specific situation that just isn't in your posts, and that's of interest to me.

I know llama appears a lot. That's because you've given your thoughts about llama, done vote evaluations on llama, and argued with LC and marmot about llama. In no case have you had a real conversation with him. The only conversations you've had with him were throwaways about whether votes were changeable, asking him to confirm that he thinks I'm bad, and this one:

Spoiler: show

llama and Quin, while you argue with each other could you please comment on Long Con? Everything he has said in recent memory screams mafia to me. It is rare that I am pinged so severely about anything.

Delighted too. Long Con hasn't really rung any alarm bells for me yet, though I admit I am bad at reading him and he has fooled me more than once. I do agree with him that Marmot's read on me was obviously a joke, and I worry that you are in danger of overanalyzing that remark, and his explanation of it, although I think you do so with the best of intentions.

I understand your perspective of Marmot's joke. That's not the issue. Here's the issue:

Do you believe that I should have obviously known Marmot's post was a joke?

Which I'd have to be generous to give you.

[Quin]

So there's just the one post. Is that enough?

One post is enough for one second. That's the point. Single posts fell into the thread and I gave hot takes.

He had four posts and he flipped bad, so I'm sure you can appreciate my concern on that front.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I tasked myself to give semi-GTH reads on every player. Instead of merely "good/bad" I allowed myself to qualify with degrees of good/bad. I then adapted it into a rainbow:

Boomslang
Epignosis
Sorsha

Marmot
nijuukyugou

Elohcin
insertnamehere
Quin
Scotty
thellama73

A Person
Made
MovingPictures07

DrWilgy

Long Con

As you can see, the number of people I lean civilian on is large. That's the result of a Day 1 mafia lynch which netted a lot of conclusive reads, and a bunch of other people not supported by the evidence who I think look okay at face value.

That leaves me with Long Con as the suspect I've already discussed and four low/non-posters by process of elimination. Granting the probability that at least one my greens is incorrect, I think there's likely a baddie among the lurkers. Wilgy is the worst-looking low-poster due to his Day 1 vote. This would be even more likely in the event that I am incorrect about Long Con.

llama being a baddie would distort this conceptualization of the game because it'd significantly change the dynamic of the Day 1 votes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm not expecting a quantity. I'm expecting a specific situation that just isn't in your posts, and that's of interest to me.

And I'm telling you "okay".

I don't think the meta you're applying to me is an accurate depiction -- it's more of an ideal I pursue than a reality I achieve. I don't think I even meet the standard you're setting in 48/24 games. That can be taken or left; I've nothing else to say.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So there's just the one post. Is that enough?

One post is enough for one second. That's the point. Single posts fell into the thread and I gave hot takes.

He had four posts and he flipped bad, so I'm sure you can appreciate my concern on that front.

I do. I am not surprised that I have taken crap for that and not just from you. That's the way the game works.

In the earliest stages I push the game into its forward momentum by throwing reads into the thread. They're real reads, but they're not supported by anything substantial. They're gut checks with whatever posts are available, and I honestly never even care if those reads are correct. That's not the point on Day 0 or the earliest portion of Day 1. Making the game move is the point.

And it works.

[Quin]

I see a situation right now where the mafia killed Boomslang, but was role blocked or protected. Elohcin's sudden appearance to show distrust towards me comes across to me as a role blocker claim. Put that in your back pocket, people.

I can see a situation where the baddies killed Boomslang and role blocked themselves so that a bad Elohcin could come out and say this, but she'd have some heavy collateral to deal with once I flipped. It's nothing she couldn't explain her way out of if she did it well enough, though. There's two role blockers and a civilian doctor still in the game.

An alternative is that she's a civilian role blocker, and role blocked me. This would be an interesting coincidence considering I didn't kill nobody, yet Boomslang still survived.

I'm just gonna wait on other thoughts on the situation before I commit to any line of thinking.

Okay I hadn't discussed this. I would be willing to call the highlighted text extreme tinfoil. It makes me imagine Quin standing in the center of an unfurnished, locked, windowless room staring at the door with tinfoil covering every wall and the empty boxes piled in a corner.

Extreme tinfoil on its own isn't necessarily a big deal, but I am less than amused that Quin employs this tinfoil to arrive at a conclusion akin to this is how I have been set up.

You are going to justify this. It's the second most likely scenario.

I still want you to talk about this, because there's no tinfoil to be found there. This near-exact scenario happened in the very last game, which you modded. The post wasn't about how I was framed. It was about the strategy the baddies could have used last night, and I've since abandoned it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I still want you to talk about this, because there's no tinfoil to be found there. This near-exact scenario happened in the very last game, which you modded. The post wasn't about how I was framed. It was about the strategy the baddies could have used last night, and I've since abandoned it.

I don't think the scenario is very similar. It was at the end of the game, not Night 1. Sorsha was the last baddie. She was heavily suspected. She pulled a gambit and it didn't work.

The dynamic of the scenario being suggested is very different in this situation. The game just started and they're down a man already with no civilians dead. I don't think it's likely that any mafia team would see that as the ideal time to pull the type of move you're suggesting -- indeed I don't think most mafia teams do it ever. Even Sorsha's gambit was a rarity. I've never seen that before.

[Quin]

Okay, but you tried to push it as though I was making a deal out of the fact that I was being framed. Justify that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay, but you tried to push it as though I was making a deal out of the fact that I was being framed. Justify that.

I think it's one of your less encouraging face-value comments in your post history. You developed a highly convoluted and in my eyes unlikely scenario to suggest a potential frame job by Elohcin against you. Given that you've also insisted Elohcin is a roleblocker, this reads to me like someone immediately assembling a barrier against an anticipated flood of suspicion -- likely to take the form of Elohcin blocked Quin and prevented his kill. Anticipatory behavior like that tends to be something I find suspicious.

[Quin]

Okay, but you tried to push it as though I was making a deal out of the fact that I was being framed. Justify that.

I think it's one of your less encouraging face-value comments in your post history. You developed a highly convoluted and in my eyes unlikely scenario to suggest a potential frame job by Elohcin against you. Given that you've also insisted Elohcin is a roleblocker, this reads to me like someone immediately assembling a barrier against an anticipated flood of suspicion -- likely to take the form of Elohcin blocked Quin and prevented his kill. Anticipatory behavior like that tends to be something I find suspicious.

I gave two scenarios, and didn't put any emphasis in my belief of one over the other. The fact that you got on board with llama who was trying to push only one of the two to the forefront of the thread doesn't read well to me. In the one we're talking about, the fact that I was being framed took the back seat to my hypothesis. That was intentional. It's reflected in the post.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay, but you tried to push it as though I was making a deal out of the fact that I was being framed. Justify that.

I think it's one of your less encouraging face-value comments in your post history. You developed a highly convoluted and in my eyes unlikely scenario to suggest a potential frame job by Elohcin against you. Given that you've also insisted Elohcin is a roleblocker, this reads to me like someone immediately assembling a barrier against an anticipated flood of suspicion -- likely to take the form of Elohcin blocked Quin and prevented his kill. Anticipatory behavior like that tends to be something I find suspicious.

I gave two scenarios, and didn't put any emphasis in my belief of one over the other. The fact that you got on board with llama who was trying to push only one of the two to the forefront of the thread doesn't read well to me. In the one we're talking about, the fact that I was being framed took the back seat to my hypothesis. That was intentional. It's reflected in the post.

I don't care that you gave two scenarios. The amount of emphasis you distribute between them is irrelevant to what I am saying. The fact that you presented that theory at all is suspicious to me. That's how tinfoil I think it is.

Overall I think you have more civilian moments than not, but that's one that I don't like.

[Quin]

I don't know why you needed to tell me that you still think I have more civilian moments.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't know why you needed to tell me that you still think I have more civilian moments.

Because I want my read to be as clear as it can be, both to you and to anyone else reading our exchange.

For fun, I made a picture to visualize my perspective:

[JaggedJimmyJay]

OT Aside: I am obsessed with films that take place on trains. What are your favorite films that take place on trains?

I love: Strangers on a Train, The Lady Vanishes, Murder on the Orient Express, Transsiberian, Darjeeling Limited, The General, The Great Train Robbery, Shangai Express, Snowpiercer, etc.

Films that have scenes with trains but aren't necessarily about trains: Dr. Zhivago, Dil Se, Slumdog Millionaire, NXNW, Brief Encounter

Oh yes I meant to answer this, Madame Goose. My favorite film ever is Before Sunrise, and the beginning sequence is all train. The majority of the film is non-train, but I think you might appreciate it's trainy start (and maybe the rest too).

[thellama73]

OT Aside: I am obsessed with films that take place on trains. What are your favorite films that take place on trains?

I love: Strangers on a Train, The Lady Vanishes, Murder on the Orient Express, Transsiberian, Darjeeling Limited, The General, The Great Train Robbery, Shangai Express, Snowpiercer, etc.

Films that have scenes with trains but aren't necessarily about trains: Dr. Zhivago, Dil Se, Slumdog Millionaire, NXNW, Brief Encounter

Oh yes I meant to answer this, Madame Goose. My favorite film ever is Before Sunrise, and the beginning sequence is all train. The majority of the film is non-train, but I think you might appreciate it's trainy start (and maybe the rest too).

Night Train to Munich?

[Elohcin]

Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

So it was you, huh?

What was me? Oh, a block? I didn't say that. I am just trying to join the game and speculate. I've been so busy and yesterday I finally had c chance to take a look at the game. Just trying to join in, bro.

______

And how are there THREE pages from while I was sleeping? I have to get the kids ready for church, go to church, grocery shop, and work some today. I will try to catch up while I drink my tea. That's totally possible, right?

[Elohcin]

Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

Eloh, could you please point to a defense made by Quin that didn't like?

Yes... I'll have to find one when I get cake to my computer. Know I've seen your request and will remember to fulfill it.

[Elohcin]

okay, go back to Jan 14 - 4:00 hour eastern time posts....those.

I have to stop catching up for now. Tea is gone and kids are ready for breakfast.

[Elohcin]

I'm back for a few while fish sticks are in the oven. Yes...fish sticks for breakfast, my daughter is weird.

If Eloh role blocked me, but Boomslang's survival was the result of a doctor protection, it would probably mean Elohcin calling me out wasn't an attempt at a frame job. That would make her civilian. Any reason I shouldn't think this?

If all of these assumptions are granted, sure. I'm not certain we have the data necessary to just call Elohcin a roleblocker (for either faction). She emerged into this day phase with two primary comments of relevance:

1. Appreciative of my reviewing of the progression of votes on Day 1, which included a lengthy description of Quin emerging looking less than stellar.

2. She is suspicious of Quin.

My inclination is to tie these together -- she agreed with the concerns I expressed about Quin's vote and expressed suspicion accordingly. Elohcin, please correct me if this is not accurate.

You are 100% accurate in this. And then there was this which furthered my suspicion.

Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

So it was you, huh?

Whether I am a roleblocker or not...I will not say. But this reaction is alarming to me. If I were caught up, I would be voting Quin right now. But I feel I should at least catch up before voting.

[Long Con]

Yes... I'll have to find one when I get cake to my computer.

Nice Freudian slip, cake-lover. "Ha, I was thinking about cake, that sort of cake happens all the time! Oh, I did it again!"

[Ricochet]

OT Aside: I am obsessed with films that take place on trains. What are your favorite films that take place on trains?

I love: Strangers on a Train, The Lady Vanishes, Murder on the Orient Express, Transsiberian, Darjeeling Limited, The General, The Great Train Robbery, Shangai Express, Snowpiercer, etc.

Films that have scenes with trains but aren't necessarily about trains: Dr. Zhivago, Dil Se, Slumdog Millionaire, NXNW, Brief Encounter

The Lady Vanishes was a surprise delight, given my sniffiness with Hitchcock. I should still see more films that take place on trains.

[Long Con]

OT Aside: I am obsessed with films that take place on trains. What are your favorite films that take place on trains?

I love: Strangers on a Train, The Lady Vanishes, Murder on the Orient Express, Transsiberian, Darjeeling Limited, The General, The Great Train Robbery, Shangai Express, Snowpiercer, etc.

Films that have scenes with trains but aren't necessarily about trains: Dr. Zhivago, Dil Se, Slumdog Millionaire, NXNW, Brief Encounter

How about Throw Momma From The Train?

And The Sting has a great scene on a train too.

[Mongoose]

Oh yes I meant to answer this, Madame Goose. My favorite film ever is Before Sunrise, and the beginning sequence is all train. The majority of the film is non-train, but I think you might appreciate it's trainy start (and maybe the rest too).

Oh yes, how could I forget! I actually saw that in the small-town three-screen cinemas that my dad let me go to unchaperoned with my middle school cohorts. I'm obsessed with that whole trilogy, and Before Midnight slayed me in a way I was not prepared for -- I am a big Linklater in general. Anyone seen Tape? Holy bananas. Cassavates-throwback style of dialogue-driven film. If you've ever had brunch with me, you'll know the penchant I have for that delicious 2-way conversation you get -- so magical when both parties are talking a lot but responding a lot and listening a lot too? Scrumptious.

[thellama73]

Spoiler: show

[Scotty]

im supes busy today with 2 shows so I'm not gonna be very active up until deadline.

I'll probably have to vote before my 2nd show at 6:30p est

[Marmot]

im supes busy today with 2 shows so I'm not gonna be very active up until deadline.

I'll probably have to vote before my 2nd show at 6:30p est

Well in that case, let's talk about who you're gonna vote for.

[Marmot]

Deadline in 7 hours (let's not forget). No time like the present!

[Boomslang]

Whew, thanks much to whatever behind-the-scenes shenanigans kept me alive last night! Hopefully we can keep this good juju running.

In all of the discussion about Quin's tinfoil theory, I think people are missing this key post, in which I think he clearly backtracks from the position:

It's possible but pretty unlikely that the baddies would block their own kill like that. Especially after losing one of their own in the day one lynch.

That's a good point. I'd say this is more likely a doctor job.

And then he returns to using the theory while defending against Quin, calling it "the second most likely scenario." Also, "There's no tinfoil to be found there. This near-exact scenario happened in the very last game, which you modded." Which again glosses over the differences in context between the Sorsha situation and this hypothetical. I feel like Quin's digging a very deep hole.

[nijuukyugou]

I'm catching up in the thread, but I think I'll do some thought posting before being fully caught up so I can actually contribute without feeling like I'm just rehashing. So, expect possible rehashing of others' thoughts.

1) Yep, Epi has definitely and immediately thrown a team member under the bus Day 1. I was there. So he's not entirely in the clear, but I do agree with someone (don't remember who) that the way he threw suspicion out at DDL was different from the way he attacked him in Guess Who. Didn't play the other game mentioned, so I have no comparison, but I'm inclined at the point to see Epi as good. Scary.

2) I will be focusing attention on llama voters ATM. Initial thoughts on each as I read through and remember what was posted during the Day:

INH: Came out, guns a-blazin', against llama for reasons I remember agreeing with (and posted about in my bigger post). It was mostly the going after Sorsha part that I agreed with (as in, llama came out going after Sorsha with no real reasoning, and continued to push it with no real reasoning), as well as the part pointing out the way llama has with manipulating with words. In other words, INH had a case against llama and went with it, making him the least suspicious in my eyes. Also, llama's not necessarily cleared by any means by this last lynch, so there's also that.

Long Con: Added on to llama votes. Honestly, haven't looked at him particularly closely yet (still reading), but I do see he's getting suspicion, especially from JJJ at the bottom of his read list, so I'd like to look back more at him. But not a good look if, in fact, llama is good. Well, also not a good look regardless, since DDL flipped bad.

Quin: First to break the tie. Not a good look (again, considering what we know). Seeing a lot of back and forth between him and JJJ in the most recent pages that I'd like to look more closely at. OH and that weird comment after Eloh posted? The one about claiming she's the blocker with her comment? Weird comment, no matter how you slice it: if bad, sounds defensive and frustrated after missing a kill. If good, why point out someone you think is the blocker?! Might as well paint a target for baddies.

Wilgy: In and out of the thread. Appears to have voted for llama out of a desire to "save" the Marmot, but MM only had one vote on him at the time (to be fair, however, there was possible momentum in the thread that could have picked up towards him, enough for me to post my disagreement with it). Either way, dude broke the tie at the end against DDL, which is definitely not a good look, and hasn't come back with anything of substance since. Not a good look.

But now, as I write this, only focusing on llama voters, and thinking about how llama may or may not be good, I want to look at outliers too, dammit. Think I'll do that a bit later as I read more.

Blooper out for now.

[nijuukyugou]

Oh, and favorite movies with trains/taking place on trains? Some Like It Hot, O Brother, Where Art Thou?, The Sting, The Polar Express (I'm a sucker), and Snakes on a Train.

Just kidding about that last one

[Marmot]

1) Yep, Epi has definitely and immediately thrown a team member under the bus Day 1. I was there. So he's not entirely in the clear, but I do agree with someone (don't remember who) that the way he threw suspicion out at DDL was different from the way he attacked him in Guess Who. Didn't play the other game mentioned, so I have no comparison, but I'm inclined at the point to see Epi as good. Scary.

You were there, but you did not play the game so you don't have a good comparison?

What do you mean?

[nijuukyugou]

1) Yep, Epi has definitely and immediately thrown a team member under the bus Day 1. I was there. So he's not entirely in the clear, but I do agree with someone (don't remember who) that the way he threw suspicion out at DDL was different from the way he attacked him in Guess Who. Didn't play the other game mentioned, so I have no comparison, but I'm inclined at the point to see Epi as good. Scary.

You were there, but you did not play the game so you don't have a good comparison?

What do you mean?

Oops, that's horrible wording! I meant that because I didn't play the other game mentioned that I don't have any comparison with Epi's behavior in this game. Does that make more sense?

[Boomslang]

On the other major disagreement in the thread today (JJJ vs. LC), I think LC comes out looking good. JJJ doesn't see (or, because it's JJJ, more likely doesn't want to recognize) the subtleties between LC's agreement with Epi on DDL and his disagreement with hypocrisy as a general tell. LC also is absolutely right about JJJ's defensive sensitivity against analysis that's not unambiguous baddie accusation. I also think JJJ is being very controlling of the thread narrative, as indicated by his aversion to LC's quote rephrasing.

Basically, I'm leaning bad on JJJ after that. I think he's attempting to drive the entire thread and is aggressively shooting down threats to his dominance/contributions that differ from his narrative.

[thellama73]

Also, llama's not necessarily cleared by any means by this last lynch, so there's also that.

I wanted to circle back to this point, because it's a good one. I'm certainly not cleared by the lynch at all. For that reason, I'm a bit puzzled as to why INH, whom I generally feel good about, decided to drop his case against me after the lynch. Can you clear that up, INH?

[thellama73]

This game messes with your head, man. Right now I feel like Quin is such an obvious baddie that it's making me second guess myself, thinking "it can't be that easy, can it?"

[Boomslang]

This game messes with your head, man. Right now I feel like Quin is such an obvious baddie that it's making me second guess myself, thinking "it can't be that easy, can it?"

It was that easy with DDL, wasn't it?

[nijuukyugou]

Also, llama's not necessarily cleared by any means by this last lynch, so there's also that.

I wanted to circle back to this point, because it's a good one. I'm certainly not cleared by the lynch at all. For that reason, I'm a bit puzzled as to why INH, whom I generally feel good about, decided to drop his case against me after the lynch. Can you clear that up, INH?

Good point. Why did he drop the case all of a sudden?