Phenon Mafia: ENDGAME - Snuffed

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

[Quin]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH

really?

[speedchuck]

@Quin

But you need to think I have teammates if you think I'm mafia.

I don't think you think I have teammates. I don't think you think I'm mafia.

That is some rather wack logic. It's like saying that if you don't know the entirety of how a puzzle will be completed, then you can't fit in a single piece of it.

Nah, it's more like:
You're trying to make a five piece puzzle, and you see that (out of your collection of 16 pieces), this one piece doesn't seem to fit any of the rest at all. Probably shouldn't start with that piece.

Of course, I get Quin's side of it as well. He's arguing that this piece does fit a piece that he's confirmed is a part of the puzzle, and that he can't see the rest of the pieces well enough in this dim lighting.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

Nutella's push was maybe the biggest reason the Marmot lynch gained traction, so what's not to trust about it?

If JJJ ever ends up scum, Soneji is scum buddies.
But lol. I'm done tinfoiling JJJ. He's sure town.

I haven't gotten to researching the MM lynch beyond seeing who all voted for him. If Nutella pushed on him that hard then I would be inclined to dismiss that suspicion.

@Quin

But you need to think I have teammates if you think I'm mafia.

I don't think you think I have teammates. I don't think you think I'm mafia.

That is some rather wack logic. It's like saying that if you don't know the entirety of how a puzzle will be completed, then you can't fit in a single piece of it.

If I have one of those weird 3D jigsaw pieces, I'm not gonna assume it belongs to my standard two d puzzle cause it doesn't fit with any of the pieces.

But whatever. I've masoned with Quin. He doesn't necessarily think thataway.

I do. Lotsa times, one confirm or flip will shake up my rainbow cause I thought three players were scum together. Learn one is town, everything changes. My style is not Quin's though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Golden, you've been asking for help with the JOH case.

Talk about Sloonei's work.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I haven't read INH. I know he built a case on Dyslexicon which I read and found to be lacking. Is the case abasing him that he argued a case that went against Marmot? Is there anything else to consider?

linki - nutella i see your point about him not showing up today

more linki

There's nothing else INH has done but pursue Dizzy.

Even if he's wrong on Dizzy and Marmot, he's not playing like a townie.

Are you saying he's not playing like a townie because he's not considering alternatives? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to clarify.

linki

I'm saying that a townie shouldn't focus almost exclusively on one player.

[Dyslexicon]

Hi. I'm here. Focus me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH

really?

I never asserted or implied that JOH is the only player who'd have killed Nacho.

[Fredwood]

Lynch INH


I said I would lynch him so I guess I should, even if it looks like a superwagon at this point.

Also, Pink cus Fuck you that's why.

Y'know, I was gonna let you off the hook if you just didn't vote, because you defended your style of hesitance toward voting. But I found it pretty pingy when you kept saying you had been suspicious of Jack for a while and yet refrained from voting for him. Now you join the INH train. Any fool could see that if Jack's bad you're 100% his teammate.

Since you guys keep promising to do an ISO on me, but none of you haven't, I guess I have to.

Fred, what are you thinking? Who is scum? Who is town?

Don't be neutral. I will give you slack later for ill conceived arguments as long as you actually make some reads.

It'll be good for you.

Caught up...past few days were a cluster fuck.

Based off Marmot:
Nut and Dys

Dys has not liked the Marmot since the jump, and it never felt like bussing, we even talked about it when I gave my reads at the time. Nut led the train, based of her read. So of everyone that voted for Marmot, I'd be inclined to believe that they are most genuine.

LC: He voted Marmot early in the phase, and had no real assurances of how it would play out one way or the other. It wasn't a strong vote, but just strong enough.

Sloonei and Speed: I've had a pro town read on Speed even before last night, I just have a hard time thinking that scum would lynch scum with seconds left in the phase...I know there have been good cases made and pointing out his numerous flip-flops have and while they are compelling, I can't shake that he is at the very least was not working with Marmot, just due to the timing of the vote. A stalled phase doesn't prove that he's scum, because there's no autopsy to point to as defense or damnation.

Sloonei gets less of a pass because they were only the 4th vote, and Sloon had been rather solidly in the I don't want to vote Dys or Marsh camp, SLoon had been tunnelled on Scotty up until that point. Seeing as how Marmot basically taunted them into voting for him with 5 minutes left, and no one was going to lynch Scotty, the choices were between a suspicious INH led train or a seemingly genuine Nutella train, I think I make the same choice in the same situation. So there's 2 pros and 1 con...for a net pro read.

Dys train:
INH: Has been pinging hard because of his relentless pursuit of the whole fake slip even after I thought this was put to bed...it's annoying that it was still a thing on day 2. To me the proof all hinged around the supposed existence or non existence of evidence that Dys gathered from the whole thing, and despite the fact that Dys had been pushing hard on Marmot since the event in question did nothing to assuage INH's tunnel. Normally one could point to this as a screen of Marmot, it is possible, but this has been a running theme with him. I still read him on the scummy spectrum of things, but not solely for his relentless push on Dys. His map theory was rather odd as well.

Quin: It's hard to say, Quin just dislikes most things, I think the likelyhood of both Quin and INH w/w each other is slim, but I definitely thinks it's possible one is. GTH I think INH is looking worse then Quin, Quin just appears a bit stubborn and prone to odd leaps, kind of evidenced by their interaction with Sloonei earlier this phase.


The rest of yesterday:

Scotty: Strange play, I think. "The don't lynch me I can prove I'm town not" argument that I despise withstanding, he's pushing for the inactive player lynch as opposed to the other lynches which would give the town more information to work with. Silver is on his train, which does not bode well for him in my eyes, more of a meta thing because I trust Silver because of my experience with him. Though him throwing shade on two of his biggest detractors this day phase is an odd play for scum, but that's based on personal playstyle where I just view it as strange, so not really a pro in his defense. Silver's death doesn't help him, but on it's own doesn't hurt him. There's just enough smoke with the rest of his play to suggest fire.


Eloh: One part of me wants to say...I don't know. Coming on and asking a person at random who they vote for then voting for themselves when they get a non-commital answer is aggravating. Not from an in game standpoint, just from a enjoyment of the game standpoint. A Eloh lynch nets us no new information, but their continued existence is just gnawing at me, both from a "this has to be dealt with eventually standpoint" and from a they really just don't give a shit standpoint. I don't like casting aspersions on people I don't know, and there may be very good reasons they don't give a shit, but it's just something looming imo.


JJJ/Golden/Jack: My impression of you 3 is that one of you is scum and two of you are town. It's non-committal true, but based off personal experience and the general consensus of players in this thread, that they are rather strong players. My GTH is that Jack is most likely scum, but a lot of that was based of the Sloonei pressure earlier. Questions could have been asked, I just didn't like the questions that were asked.

Straw is null at the moment, Juliets is too new

Soneji - he comes on in short bursts and is extremely strong and aggressive, presents some boisterous remarks and then fucks off never to be seen again.

Soooo...TLDR

Top Suspects:
Scotty
INH
Soneji (SP)

Light suspects:

Quin
Jack
Eloh


Null reads: (Not necessarily because I have no read on them but the evidence could go either way)

Strawhenge
Long Con
JJJ
Juliets

Moderate Town:

Golden
Sloonei
Speed

Strong Town:

Nut
Dys

Ok...2 pages have probably Linki'd since I started typing, but I really tried.

I have 3 to 4 much higher priority targets then Jack, I would not vote for anyone in the orange range unless new information was shared, or an argument was made.

Secondary suspicions that I want to iron out at the moment:
INH (I lumped him with mm yesterday, because they were buddying insanely. Could be scum taking town town with them, or... blatant buddying. Everything else was blatant at EOD.
Fredwood (Sorry, I've read you as town all game, but if Jack is bad, gotta reeval)
Soneji
Mayybe long con

Scotty isn't entirely in the clear, but I like his posts enough at the moment to not kick up a fuss over giving him time to use his role.

I have to reveal what? If he's bad? I've been suspicious of Jack in every post I've mentioned him. My assumption is that of Golden/JJJ/and Jack that 2 are town and one is scum, with Jack leading. Golden has lessened on Jack a bit, but day one was a triumvirate of bickering. I can't say that Jack has done something overtly scummy this game, but the others have given more information they did not need to (IE not under pressure to do so), and have given more indication in other regards to imply that they're more likely civ.

My main issue is the view that he's the most suspicious of all available scum reads.

Notice how I say, I'm suspicious that one of them is scum (JJJ,Golden, JOH), not that Jack was my strongest read in total, and that my assumption wasn't strong enough to pursue for a lynch. Right now the best cases for the other two is independent verification and the release of their information.

<snip>

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Fred, who are you looking at voting for this round?

link - I don't know what a "typical is"

Scotty, Soneji

I think INH is a possible lynch and would be fine with lynching. But his aggressiveness has at least been consistent.

Again when someone asked me, I stated the 3 people I'd be willing to lynch today. One of them is being pushed for lynch, so I am voting.

So, if you want to say how it's out of character for me to vote for INH, when I said I was only willing to vote for 3 people this phase, and my suspicion of Jack is light, why would I not vote for INH in this scenario?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hi. I'm here. Focus me.

Dizzy Gillespie, who should we murder today?

I forbid you to quote pyramid that gif after this point.

[Quin]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH

really?

I never asserted or implied that JOH is the only player who'd have killed Nacho.

It does kind of read as though if this were a BTSC slip, it'd look bad for you because of your part in what he's saying. If you're not bad, I wouldn't actually put much stake in it. Unless you think he's straight up lying.

[Dyslexicon]

I actually probably kind of would prefer INH over Jack. But I'm not feeling strongly one over the other. I kind of want to just trust Nutella and who even is on the Jack wagon?



So that's why I'm just spamming and posting gifs, cause I just don't know.

[Dyslexicon]

^I guess that answers your question, JJJ.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

You disagreed that it was a joke but it was. When Nacho listed his actual suspects, the list was completely different.

Nacho has played in two games, here. No reason Syndicate regulars would avoid killing him.

I'm sorry but it was a bad timfoil theory.



You think I recruited Silver over here so he could up his game and bring something back to our dying mafia community on HCRealms.....and then killed him on night two?

[Golden]

Golden, you've been asking for help with the JOH case.

Talk about Sloonei's work.

It seems to me to be primarily based on the read hopping around, which isn't something I find inherently bad. Normally I find baddies are likely to preserve their reads (especially on teammates) - especially baddies as experienced as I believe Jack is. I might be more inclined to see this kind of read hopping as bad if it ended with him lynching a civ who he's previously town read, than not lynching a teammate.

There was one thing in there which concerned me a little:

He likes Golden's pro-Dizzy analysis, but only uses it to affirm his town read on Golden and later keeps Dizzy yellow, near the bottom of his rainbow

Jack and I had a good working relationship last game, and I feel like we've been on the same page this game. It could be that Jack is intentionally pocketing me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH

really?

I never asserted or implied that JOH is the only player who'd have killed Nacho.

It does kind of read as though if this were a BTSC slip, it'd look bad for you because of your part in what he's saying. If you're not bad, I wouldn't actually put much stake in it. Unless you think he's straight up lying.

You're taking my wording too literally.

JOH is referring to the work I did early on Day 2 to try to discern what insight could be gained from the Nacho kill. One suspect I named was JOH, he wasn't the sole suspect. His use of the word "only" is a misrepresentation of what I did.

[Golden]

A couple of other questions for people generally:

1) Marmot claimed to read eloh's meta and say she is more likely engaged when bad. I don't recall when eloh was bad, or how engaged she was. The only time I remember seeing particularly engaged eloh is in smaller games (which she acknowledges she finds easier to keep up in), and I recall her doing it as town. Does anyone have any insight into whether this meta read from marmot could have been real or not?

Two possibilities: a) marmot moves things away from a teamie, or b) he tries to get cred when she comes back town.

2) I forgot the second one. It will come back to me later.

[Golden]

Oh, 2) Why have I been thinking Quin is town? Are there good reasons to townread him?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

You disagreed that it was a joke but it was. When Nacho listed his actual suspects, the list was completely different.

Nacho has played in two games, here. No reason Syndicate regulars would avoid killing him.

I'm sorry but it was a bad timfoil theory.

My suspicion of you was more focused on your sig vote. The only relevance you bore to the Nacho kill analysis was that you were included in his POE, which was definitely not a "joke". It represented overlap and I noted the overlap. The sig vote was more important information because it was less speculative.

You think I recruited Silver over here so he could up his game and bring something back to our dying mafia community on HCRealms.....and then killed him on night two?

I think Night 2 is a decent amount of time for a player to get acclimated to an environment. Night 1 not so much. Another reason I think I have harbored suspicion of you is that SL was kicking your butt in the realm of content generation, and Fredwood was right on your pace.

The SL kill is also harder to work with given his vigilante claim. Would you have kept a vigilante alive who had voiced some concern about you (for the same reason I just cited)?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually, that's a great argument.

Sloonei, we talked about my frustration with HCRealms. Not enough real scumhunting. Not enough participation. I loved the heck out Unfortunate Events. I recruited you over to HCRealms for a game and didn't kill you even though you were far and away the strongest townie and I was scum. Then I recruited Silver and Fred to play here.

Everyone's seen me pushing Fred to give more reads. I clearly want my Realms bros to get Syndicate mafia style exposure.

I didn't kill Silver Lantern. I wanted him to stay alive very badly.

[Quin]

A couple of other questions for people generally:

1) Marmot claimed to read eloh's meta and say she is more likely engaged when bad. I don't recall when eloh was bad, or how engaged she was. The only time I remember seeing particularly engaged eloh is in smaller games (which she acknowledges she finds easier to keep up in), and I recall her doing it as town. Does anyone have any insight into whether this meta read from marmot could have been real or not?

Two possibilities: a) marmot moves things away from a teamie, or b) he tries to get cred when she comes back town.

2) I forgot the second one. It will come back to me later.

In ASOUE she was bad and didn't come across as very engaged. I'm not sure how many posts/content she had, but I don't think it was much.

linki: Because I'm practically oozing genuinity.

[Sloonei]

Can a brother get a tally?

[Soneji]

I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

Nutella's push was maybe the biggest reason the Marmot lynch gained traction, so what's not to trust about it?

If JJJ ever ends up scum, Soneji is scum buddies.
But lol. I'm done tinfoiling JJJ. He's sure town.

I haven't gotten to researching the MM lynch beyond seeing who all voted for him. If Nutella pushed on him that hard then I would be inclined to dismiss that suspicion.

@Quin

But you need to think I have teammates if you think I'm mafia.

I don't think you think I have teammates. I don't think you think I'm mafia.

That is some rather wack logic. It's like saying that if you don't know the entirety of how a puzzle will be completed, then you can't fit in a single piece of it.

If I have one of those weird 3D jigsaw pieces, I'm not gonna assume it belongs to my standard two d puzzle cause it doesn't fit with any of the pieces.

But whatever. I've masoned with Quin. He doesn't necessarily think thataway.

I do. Lotsa times, one confirm or flip will shake up my rainbow cause I thought three players were scum together. Learn one is town, everything changes. My style is not Quin's though.

I generally don't put much credence into trying to figure out people being scum together until I have a mafia flip. Until then, I push and prod wherever I get pinged, without any consideration of whether or not two of my suspects would work as scummates/who their scummates might be.

[nutella]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH

really?

I never asserted or implied that JOH is the only player who'd have killed Nacho.

I believe he is referring to this post. It's definitely not a slip, just an extreme interpretation of a discussion you had.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

The highlighted portion never existed in this game thread.

You disagreed that it was a joke but it was. When Nacho listed his actual suspects, the list was completely different.

Nacho has played in two games, here. No reason Syndicate regulars would avoid killing him.

I'm sorry but it was a bad timfoil theory.

My suspicion of you was more focused on your sig vote. The only relevance you bore to the Nacho kill analysis was that you were included in his POE, which was definitely not a "joke". It represented overlap and I noted the overlap. The sig vote was more important information because it was less speculative.

You think I recruited Silver over here so he could up his game and bring something back to our dying mafia community on HCRealms.....and then killed him on night two?

I think Night 2 is a decent amount of time for a player to get acclimated to an environment. Night 1 not so much. Another reason I think I have harbored suspicion of you is that SL was kicking your butt in the realm of content generation, and Fredwood was right on your pace.

The SL kill is also harder to work with given his vigilante claim. Would you have kept a vigilante alive who had voiced some concern about you (for the same reason I just cited)?

Silver stated he was fairly certain of my town status right before he died.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A couple of other questions for people generally:

1) Marmot claimed to read eloh's meta and say she is more likely engaged when bad. I don't recall when eloh was bad, or how engaged she was. The only time I remember seeing particularly engaged eloh is in smaller games (which she acknowledges she finds easier to keep up in), and I recall her doing it as town. Does anyone have any insight into whether this meta read from marmot could have been real or not?

Two possibilities: a) marmot moves things away from a teamie, or b) he tries to get cred when she comes back town.

2) I forgot the second one. It will come back to me later.

I already provided a clear meta parallel in this game where Elohcin did nothing as a mafioso (and even made the exact same sorts of tagalong votes when she couldn't keep up). The only reason I can think of to give Eloh credit here is that your action claims paint her as a redirecting role. Two of those on one mafia team would be atypical -- but only atypical.

I think Marmot's meta read was bunk. Whether that means he was spewing her town or protecting a teammate remains to be seen, I think there's room for both scenarios.

[nutella]

@Dys, for what it's worth, I am voting for Jack. Vote for INH if you're so inclined, I certainly won't stop you, I've just found the wagon on him so far to be kinda sketchy. But I could be wrong about Jack. I just don't feel like I am at this point.

[Jackofhearts2005]

A couple of other questions for people generally:

1) Marmot claimed to read eloh's meta and say she is more likely engaged when bad. I don't recall when eloh was bad, or how engaged she was. The only time I remember seeing particularly engaged eloh is in smaller games (which she acknowledges she finds easier to keep up in), and I recall her doing it as town. Does anyone have any insight into whether this meta read from marmot could have been real or not?

Two possibilities: a) marmot moves things away from a teamie, or b) he tries to get cred when she comes back town.

2) I forgot the second one. It will come back to me later.

He was specifically referring to Unfortunate Events.

I disagree with her being super invested in that game. She joined for Epi, who was gonna try to lynch her day 1.

But I didn't see their Chatzy. Marmot did.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Silver stated he was fairly certain of my town status right before he died.

Please show me.

[speedchuck]

2) Why have I been thinking Quin is town? Are there good reasons to townread him?

No idea on your question #1.

With #2:
I don't feel like Quin has been trying to avoid attention.
I don't feel like Quin has been inconsistent.
I don't feel like Quin has been picking reads based on what is beneficial or convenient for him.
I don't feel like Quin has been trying to lead, so my fears about him bringing up opposing views are lessened.
I don't feel like Quin has been saying things that don't make sense. He just follows different logic than I would.

I don't know. I disagree with Quin on lots of things he says, but I haven't gotten a scum feeling from him. It could be that he's just that good, or that I suck.

[Dyslexicon]

@Dys, for what it's worth, I am voting for Jack. Vote for INH if you're so inclined, I certainly won't stop you, I've just found the wagon on him so far to be kinda sketchy. But I could be wrong about Jack. I just don't feel like I am at this point.

Yeah, I'm considering it. I want to know the vote tally, but to ADD to do it myself right now.
I see arguments for both. o.o

[Golden]

But it doesn't paint her as a misdirecting role! Bus driver is possible, but otherwise it's me she would target! I don't like that logic for why she isn't bad.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Actually, that's a great argument.

Sloonei, we talked about my frustration with HCRealms. Not enough real scumhunting. Not enough participation. I loved the heck out Unfortunate Events. I recruited you over to HCRealms for a game and didn't kill you even though you were far and away the strongest townie and I was scum. Then I recruited Silver and Fred to play here.

Everyone's seen me pushing Fred to give more reads. I clearly want my Realms bros to get Syndicate mafia style exposure.

I didn't kill Silver Lantern. I wanted him to stay alive very badly.

PLZ SLOONEI

SLOONEI PLZ

You know I care more about community than winning. I didn't kill Silver Lantern.

Silver would have killed INH, anyhow, who I am voting for.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've had some similar issues with Quin as JOH. I think Quin appears more authentic between the two at face value, though faking authenticity may be his best Mafia trait.

[Dyslexicon]

But it doesn't paint her as a misdirecting role! Bus driver is possible, but otherwise it's me she would target! I don't like that logic for why she isn't bad.

Is it random that I think this post is really towny?
But I do.

[Fredwood]

Can we please stop making assumptions about Eloh's power and presenting them as fact?

[Dyslexicon]

@Quin, What is your reason for townreading INH?

[Jackofhearts2005]

INH and Quin are making me sad. Dys is the player I trust the most currently (or on about equal footing with Silver and Golden). I believe SO strongly that Dys is civ, I'd say even more so given the recent discussion -- especially their replies to Quin. I was thinking "amen" to everything Dys said in response to Quin's utterly ridiculous and nuance-lacking accusation that they haven't provided reads/reactions to the fakeslip when they so clearly have, and has generally acted very town.


I'm also disappointed in you, Sloonei. I'm glad you backed off of Scotty, since he's been hinting all game and that's part of why I believe he's probably town. But I thought you had said a couple pages back that you'd also be willing to vote for INH or Marmot, and now you don't seem to be considering that at all. I wish you would consider switching to Marmot, especially so close to the deadline when we're not even hitting the soft lynch threshold and he's our best shot.

lots of linki. Sloon can you give reasons you think MM is town?

If you could vote for anyone not named Metalmarsh89 or insertnamehere, who would you vote for?

Well, I wouldn't, but hypothetically if I had to, probably someone out of Jack, LC, maaaybe Eloh, and... yeah that's about it.

Also, didn't you just say Quin's case against Dizzy "lacked all nuance" or something?

Yes. That was specifically about the point Quin was pursuing, which was the allegation that Dys planted the fakeslip and then failed to use it.

@Quin: You have literally quoted the post where Dys did respond to people's reactions. Other than that, you must have completely missed the point they made about nuance, where it wasn't just about the first-degree reactions people had to the fakeslip itself, but the discussion it generated, from which a lot of their activity in the thread evolved.

I feel pretty good about Jack actually. Would be curious to get Fred's take on him too.

^For JJJ

[Jackofhearts2005]

I wish Jack or JJJ was around. Sloonei is VERY non-commital as a leader.

^Also for JJJ

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But it doesn't paint her as a misdirecting role! Bus driver is possible, but otherwise it's me she would target! I don't like that logic for why she isn't bad.

I might just not follow that whole dialogue. I missed a portion of the day's chatter. Is this what happened:

You watched me.

You received a result: Fredwood was targeted by you and Elohcin (after sprityo realized his error).

This would seem to indicate that I was somehow switched with Fredwood, and if Elohcin was the only person to target him other than you then she'd have to be the one screwing with the targets. You targeted Fred with a watch, and she targeted Fred with a switch. She'd have also targeted me. As the watcher you'd have the unique ability to see that happen where a tracker like me would not.

If I follow.

[Golden]

2) Why have I been thinking Quin is town? Are there good reasons to townread him?

No idea on your question #1.

With #2:
I don't feel like Quin has been trying to avoid attention.
I don't feel like Quin has been inconsistent.
I don't feel like Quin has been picking reads based on what is beneficial or convenient for him.
I don't feel like Quin has been trying to lead, so my fears about him bringing up opposing views are lessened.
I don't feel like Quin has been saying things that don't make sense. He just follows different logic than I would.

I don't know. I disagree with Quin on lots of things he says, but I haven't gotten a scum feeling from him. It could be that he's just that good, or that I suck.

I like this answer a lot.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I have close to the same nothing read on INH that I had on Marmot, so maybe that's a nice omen.

[Golden]

But it doesn't paint her as a misdirecting role! Bus driver is possible, but otherwise it's me she would target! I don't like that logic for why she isn't bad.

I might just not follow that whole dialogue. I missed a portion of the day's chatter. Is this what happened:

You watched me.

You received a result: Fredwood was targeted by you and Elohcin (after sprityo realized his error).

This would seem to indicate that I was somehow switched with Fredwood, and if Elohcin was the only person to target him other than you then she'd have to be the one screwing with the targets. You targeted Fred with a watch, and she targeted Fred with a switch. She'd have also targeted me. As the watcher you'd have the unique ability to see that happen where a tracker like me would not.

If I follow.

I don't think it has to indicate a 'switch' at all. Sure, you and fred could have been targeted by busdriver Eloh, but all it needs indicate is that I was targeted by a redirector.

[Jackofhearts2005]

A couple of other questions for people generally:

1) Marmot claimed to read eloh's meta and say she is more likely engaged when bad. I don't recall when eloh was bad, or how engaged she was. The only time I remember seeing particularly engaged eloh is in smaller games (which she acknowledges she finds easier to keep up in), and I recall her doing it as town. Does anyone have any insight into whether this meta read from marmot could have been real or not?

Two possibilities: a) marmot moves things away from a teamie, or b) he tries to get cred when she comes back town.

2) I forgot the second one. It will come back to me later.

I already provided a clear meta parallel in this game where Elohcin did nothing as a mafioso (and even made the exact same sorts of tagalong votes when she couldn't keep up). The only reason I can think of to give Eloh credit here is that your action claims paint her as a redirecting role. Two of those on one mafia team would be atypical -- but only atypical.

I think Marmot's meta read was bunk. Whether that means he was spewing her town or protecting a teammate remains to be seen, I think there's room for both scenarios.

K. Let's pretend we know the meta read was bunk.

This is for discussion sake. My lynch or INH's won't prevent the need to determine Eloh's alignment.

There's an obvious reason to do this if Eloh is scum.

Why do this if Eloh is town? He's not gonna buddy her. Just so we have this conversation later if he does before her?

Am I missing something?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

PLZ SLOONEI

SLOONEI PLZ

You know I care more about community than winning. I didn't kill Silver Lantern.

Silver would have killed INH, anyhow, who I am voting for.

Why do I feel like I am reading a caricatured version of my own post?

[Golden]

I've had some similar issues with Quin as JOH. I think Quin appears more authentic between the two at face value, though faking authenticity may be his best Mafia trait.

I did not play Mad Max and don't know baddie Quin. Tell me more.

[Quin]

Actually, that's a great argument.

Sloonei, we talked about my frustration with HCRealms. Not enough real scumhunting. Not enough participation. I loved the heck out Unfortunate Events. I recruited you over to HCRealms for a game and didn't kill you even though you were far and away the strongest townie and I was scum. Then I recruited Silver and Fred to play here.

Everyone's seen me pushing Fred to give more reads. I clearly want my Realms bros to get Syndicate mafia style exposure.

I didn't kill Silver Lantern. I wanted him to stay alive very badly.

PLZ SLOONEI

SLOONEI PLZ

You know I care more about community than winning. I didn't kill Silver Lantern.

Silver would have killed INH, anyhow, who I am voting for.

There's a line. I'd be inclined to believe this if it wasn't made obvious that Silver was a vig. Would you just never kill him for the sake of community? I don't think so.

@Dys: I don't find his accusations against you to be disingenuous. I agreed with/acknowledged most of them, and I'm getting a good tonal read from him. He hasn't really earned my advocation against his lynch, but I don't think he's a good choice today.

[juliets]

Golden I can recall two games where Elo was bad and engaged, one of them I was baddie with her, but I don't remember which games they were. I realize thats not very helpful but I offer it for what it's worth. I think both games were smaller games. I thought she was probably good this game because I didn't see her posting but only "probably" because she had a bad week last week rl.

linki a million times

[Fredwood]

But it doesn't paint her as a misdirecting role! Bus driver is possible, but otherwise it's me she would target! I don't like that logic for why she isn't bad.

I might just not follow that whole dialogue. I missed a portion of the day's chatter. Is this what happened:

You watched me.

You received a result: Fredwood was targeted by you and Elohcin (after sprityo realized his error).

This would seem to indicate that I was somehow switched with Fredwood, and if Elohcin was the only person to target him other than you then she'd have to be the one screwing with the targets. You targeted Fred with a watch, and she targeted Fred with a switch. She'd have also targeted me. As the watcher you'd have the unique ability to see that happen where a tracker like me would not.

If I follow.

Why would there be any indication that you were switched with me? It's a possibility, but is certainly not the only or best explanation for his results. A standard Misdirect, a Controlled Misdirect, a Nexus, a pusher, a mirror a combination of another interaction with Marmot's Busdrive, that are all independent of Eloh's targeting of me.

[Dyslexicon]

What the freck is the vote tally?

Jack, you probably know?