Mass Effect Mafia (END)

[CaptainNifty]

Lynching me is in essence a no-lynch- like the Day phase never happened- and one of you will die, so it's like there were two kills Night 1.

I'm not following how "one of you will die" if we lynch you.

[Epignosis]

Looking at those numbers, the civilians can afford (in a worst case scenario) three bad lynches.

I disagree. Scum factions need to hunt each other and will be looking at nightkilling each other if possible.

Large print edition.

[Epignosis]

Lynching me is in essence a no-lynch- like the Day phase never happened- and one of you will die, so it's like there were two kills Night 1.

I'm not following how "one of you will die" if we lynch you.

Mafia kills tonight.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Wigly

Scale of 1 to 10, how sure are you that GFish's roleclaim is a lie?

(Trying desperately to get out of finishing this ISO.)

[DrWilgy]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

Linki - 8/10, there was no investment before hand. There are multuple roles making that claim easy and if Gfish was on the team that targeted Epi, it would explain the motive.

[Epignosis]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

Linki - 8/10, there was no investment before hand. There are multuple roles making that claim easy and if Gfish was on the team that targeted Epi, it would explain the motive.

I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

I want people to fight. I don't want people to plop a vote on either me or Jack and call it a day. There's over two hours remaining.

I want people to

Spoiler: show

[sprityo]

Nifty, Joh, how often does Gfish default to a bus and is it ever his first option?

Something I'd like the realms players to think about. Is the lack of role claiming when asked removing usable information?

It feels that there is a reliance upon roles happening. That info isn't usable.

He's willing to bus. It's not his first option.

I think it depends on the ruleset. In this game, no, generally not.

Yes, there is reliance. It's getting better.

SVS's logic , re: the color codes, is plausible

Yuck.

Please explain "SVS" had to say about color codes and how it makes me scum. In your own words, please.

Cause the color codes thing doesn't make sense. I want you to either double down on it, revealing your scumminess or put that vote somewhere else. I'm okay with either.

@JoH asked you a question yesterday, do you mind answering it still?

I thought I already did. Sorry if I missed it.

You said GTH, if I had to save Wigly, MP or GFish, who do I save.

Wigly.

-From what I picked up it seemed like she correlated it to some sorta fishy tactic of color coding things. But I wasn't fully on board with it. Hence "plausible"


-Thanks for the answer! But could you explain why you don't want to save MP or Gfish?

[DrWilgy]

I get that.

But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

Regardless, if we were to mass migrate our votes onto someone. Who is down?

[gfishfunk]

Homie, you aren't hunting. You want to look like you are hunting, but you aren't.

Your "safe" Epi vote reinforces this more so. You gathing info that you aren't using reinforces this. Your acceptance of ravens half answered questions reinforces this. Your hard claim w/o any investigation reinforced this.

You aren't a hunter.

I put a lot on the line to reveal information, garner a claim, and then moved to lynch the result. Homie, I'm the ONLY hunter.

You might not like what I do, but I don't see you doing anything.

[sprityo]

I'm on my last day of class so I'll be able to catch up in this action over my daily dinner if pizza

[sprityo]

Ebwop: Catch up on this day*

[DrWilgy]

-That was @Epi

Linki- alot on the line gfish? What did you put on the line?

[gfishfunk]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

What's this? An admitted neutral is not helping out the town? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!

[gfishfunk]

-That was @Epi

Linki- alot on the line gfish? What did you put on the line?

Information, reputation, and a streamlined way to figure out my role.

[Epignosis]

Homie, you aren't hunting. You want to look like you are hunting, but you aren't.

Your "safe" Epi vote reinforces this more so. You gathing info that you aren't using reinforces this. Your acceptance of ravens half answered questions reinforces this. Your hard claim w/o any investigation reinforced this.

You aren't a hunter.

I put a lot on the line to reveal information, garner a claim, and then moved to lynch the result. Homie, I'm the ONLY hunter.

You might not like what I do, but I don't see you doing anything.

You're not hunting! You're sitting by the fire having a brandy!

Where you think you are safe.

[Epignosis]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

What's this? An admitted neutral is not helping out the town? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!

Wait wait wait.

If I vote Jack, I'm helping the civilians.

But but but but...

You're not voting Jack.

[DrWilgy]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

What's this? An admitted neutral is not helping out the town? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!

And attempting to kill him doesn't change that. We gain nothing from voting him.

-That was @Epi

Linki- alot on the line gfish? What did you put on the line?

Information, reputation, and a streamlined way to figure out my role.

1 of 6 roleblocks that resulted in relatively nothing? What do I get from this?

[DrWilgy]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

I'm not punishing anybody. I'm also not doing their jobs for them.

But you aren't allowing those who at least are trying to take a chaince fpr the gain of info to be rewarded by throwing a sideline vote.

What's this? An admitted neutral is not helping out the town? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I SAY!

Wait wait wait.

If I vote Jack, I'm helping the civilians.

But but but but...

You're not voting Jack.

Can we cfd Gfish? Will you vote there with me Epi? JoH? At least then we have the chance to hit a baddie or gain info regarding his claim.

[Epignosis]

I don't know, Wilgy. You got my alignment wrong this time.

[DrWilgy]

I don't know, Wilgy. You got my alignment wrong this time.

Implying I care about that at this point.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Nifty, Joh, how often does Gfish default to a bus and is it ever his first option?

Something I'd like the realms players to think about. Is the lack of role claiming when asked removing usable information?

It feels that there is a reliance upon roles happening. That info isn't usable.

He's willing to bus. It's not his first option.

I think it depends on the ruleset. In this game, no, generally not.

Yes, there is reliance. It's getting better.

SVS's logic , re: the color codes, is plausible

Yuck.

Please explain "SVS" had to say about color codes and how it makes me scum. In your own words, please.

Cause the color codes thing doesn't make sense. I want you to either double down on it, revealing your scumminess or put that vote somewhere else. I'm okay with either.

@JoH asked you a question yesterday, do you mind answering it still?

I thought I already did. Sorry if I missed it.

You said GTH, if I had to save Wigly, MP or GFish, who do I save.

Wigly.

-From what I picked up it seemed like she correlated it to some sorta fishy tactic of color coding things. But I wasn't fully on board with it. Hence "plausible"


-Thanks for the answer! But could you explain why you don't want to save MP or Gfish?

I don't think GFish is town.

I feel less strongly about MP being town than I do about Wigly. If I get two saves, I save MP too. If I get one, Wigly > MP. Wigly feels good in all things. MP felt good, then backtracked, then disappeared. So not as good as Wigly.

[Fredwood]

Homie, you aren't hunting. You want to look like you are hunting, but you aren't.

Your "safe" Epi vote reinforces this more so. You gathing info that you aren't using reinforces this. Your acceptance of ravens half answered questions reinforces this. Your hard claim w/o any investigation reinforced this.

You aren't a hunter.

I put a lot on the line to reveal information, garner a claim, and then moved to lynch the result. Homie, I'm the ONLY hunter.

You might not like what I do, but I don't see you doing anything.

lol no you're not. I hunted and stated rather clearly why Jack is the best choice. Even addressed your safe bet "maths" logic. Adam, Wilgy and to an extent Spirit has done it. Dom is doing it in his own way.

[Epignosis]

I don't know, Wilgy. You got my alignment wrong this time.

Implying I care about that at this point.

gfishfunk

[DrWilgy]

Fred, JoH can both of you vote Gfish so we can give that wagon a chance.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

Linki - 8/10, there was no investment before hand. There are multuple roles making that claim easy and if Gfish was on the team that targeted Epi, it would explain the motive.

Ugh. Stupid phone. I swear I hit reply.


Wigly, does Dom basing his vote off a misunderstanding of what I meant by "rainbow", SVS misunderstanding my case on Nutella yesterday and then refusing to answer my questions or reevaluate her read on me in light of this while doing no scumhunting at all and Silver's lack of townie behavior not give you pause? What about Fred think I'm a distraction more than I'm scum and voting for that reason?

Could you find it in your heart to vote for the player who has basically claimed scum instead of the guy with several bad votes on him?

Or at least put it on GFish so that a switch to him is in the cards instead of making it me or Epi?

[DrWilgy]

>already voting gfish
>asking you to wagon him with me
>It's your only chamce

[Silver Lantern]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Based on some quick glances I see that people are questioning my behavior in other games so I will post a bunch of games:

1) Me as Neutral SK:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=570323

2) Me as town:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=571559
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=567840
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=555412
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=570749

3) Me as mafia:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=563733
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=570749
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=549529

And if anyone wants to peruse any other games I have been in check our home site forums here:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=139

[Jackofhearts2005]

If two players voting for me switch to GFish, I will, too.

I think Epi and Silver are better choices but I'll take a for sure GFish lynch over a fifty fifty shot between Epi and me.

[nutella]

Wow while reading the last couple pages I've been torn back and forth several times on whether or not to lynch Epi. I think LC is probably right that Epi would align with the Reapers, so it seems good to get him out of the way, but it also feels kind of like wasting a lynch, and we should be trying to vote for mafia, but that's not as sure/safe and what if we mislynch, aaaaaaa......

While I get your point about town value the fact that you think neutrals and scum hold the same value for the town is crazy. Scum should be worth negative as they actively lower the net value of the town.

And while I think your argument is good that a scum-friendly neutral is a better lynch than a civilian, I'm not that the "sure thing" of a neutral is better than getting scum.

By my earlier reasoning, lynching scum is better than lynching Epi. Epi has value to the town as a neutral that can win with the town (depending on a later choice). Scum has z value of 0. Lynching scum is preferable.

That was not what I was discussing, though. A random lynch is worse than Epi at this point.

yeah... hmmm. I'd say it's not entirely random because people vote for reasons and people suspect others for reasons and I think there's a point where you can say "x player is statistically more likely to be bad" for the reasons that they are suspected, unless they're total fluff reasons.

Also it seems Gfish is most likely with Cerberus.

Epi being the safe lynch is only true for Cerberus. It's also the easiest lynch for a Cerberus player.

Let's not take the easy option.

Not to mention a baddie would aim for the safe play the day before their kill night.

iiiinteresting. I could be swayed to a gfish vote, if it seems possible (I hate CFDs and I won't be around for the last two hours, so it would have to feel like it was worth it pretty soon)

Nutella is probably bad. Forget the Realms weapons triangle. She's passive. Not insitefuo. Where is supertown Nutella? Why is she ignoring me?

lol, I'm never supertown. Phenon was a fluke, I got lucky, anyone who bases my meta on that game has been spoiled with an outlier. I'm usually pretty passive, I just post thoughts when I can and they often change. And I gather that's supposed to say "insightful"? Again, I base my thoughts on what I read in the thread, and sometimes I piggyback off of others because that's how I play (I've never been the type to form huge cases of my own). And in a game this complicated I won't have insights into mechanical/role-related stuff because it is beyond me.
Also, what in the world is "the Realms weapons triangle"?

[gfishfunk]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

[DrWilgy]

If two players voting for me switch to GFish, I will, too.

I think Epi and Silver are better choices but I'll take a for sure GFish lynch over a fifty fifty shot between Epi and me.

Coward.

[Golden]

Did someone call?

[Fredwood]

Epi, please help the civs and vote Jack.

Please don't punish all the civs for afew being wrong/misguided/mafia.

Linki - 8/10, there was no investment before hand. There are multuple roles making that claim easy and if Gfish was on the team that targeted Epi, it would explain the motive.

Ugh. Stupid phone. I swear I hit reply.


Wigly, does Dom basing his vote off a misunderstanding of what I meant by "rainbow", SVS misunderstanding my case on Nutella yesterday and then refusing to answer my questions or reevaluate her read on me in light of this while doing no scumhunting at all and Silver's lack of townie behavior not give you pause? What about Fred think I'm a distraction more than I'm scum and voting for that reason?

Could you find it in your heart to vote for the player who has basically claimed scum instead of the guy with several bad votes on him?

Or at least put it on GFish so that a switch to him is in the cards instead of making it me or Epi?

My suspicions are independent of Dom's and SVS. I'm pretty sure I explained it, Adam followed the logic. It's a combination of cost/benefit assessment and uncharacteristic opportunistic play. I really didn't like the switch to Epi from Silver, If you're that sure on Silver you stay on Silver and try building your case, especially in plurality. We're not at a point were we have to play it safe (even if we think Epi is a "safe" vote) we can afford to take a few risks. The more I think about an Epi lynch, the more it sounds dumb because we still have plays that provide a greater benefit then maintaining the status quo. Epi's only a lynch if we have no better alternatives.

The more and more you defend yourself the less it sounds like you're pleading your case and jumping on the bandwagon of other lynches. The fact that I have never seen you push for the "easy/safe" lynch is building that suspicion.

[Silver Lantern]

Can we aim to at leas make Gfish the alternate wagon?

Hmm... a thought. I'm damn near a unanimous town read. Yet little to no one is voting with me.

Who legitimately thinks that I am just wrong out of this group.

I think the bigger issue for me is the vote manipulation. Gfish is a good candidate, right now we have such a wide list of suspects that adding another leaves us open to vote manipulation having a greater effect on the outcome. I did list fish as an asterisk on my main post, but seeing as how nobody is really moving to a consensus of one or two people, pushing him felt like a dangerous proposition.

Jack moving to Epi of all the other options just keeps adding to the reason why I want to vote for Jack, despite my Risk/Reward analysis. Jack's defense doesn't feel like he's defending himself but trying to get us to look at other people we want to lynch. I think a townie Jack sticks to his guns on Silver, not switch to epi. There's been plenty of times I recall Jack not going for the easy lynch when he was town, going for the easy lynch now is suspect.

Completely agree. Jack trying to point the finger at me does not sit well at all. Look how he left me alone in the last game we played on here and we were both town. Jack pushing on me, is a meta play trying to get me to blow up and seem scummy or just to take attention off himself. It's a pretty heads up play on his part.

[DrWilgy]

Hazelnut you should switch, but review my ISO first.

He's here so this cfd wouldn't be out of nowhere. Nothing Gfish has said or done convinced me that he's good. He has convinced me that he thinks his role claim should be good enough for me to let him slide.

[Epignosis]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

A reaver? What the hell is that?

You are Cerberus, and I think Long Con is too. You tried to kill me. It failed. So you made up this bullshit role block story.

You are bad.

[Fredwood]

Fred, JoH can both of you vote Gfish so we can give that wagon a chance.

To a point, but to me we're in the same position if we all switch from Jack to Gfish. I think either can go, I have less faith that either will at this point.

I just don't see how we need to play it safe at this point, we have leeway now. If you all think Epi is a safe lynch...doesn't it make more sense to save it for if we get in a situation where we need to be careful?

[Silver Lantern]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

I really think Jack is scum, so I prefer to vote for him over anyone else.

What do we have on Epi that makes you think he's scum? All I saw (and admittedly I did not catch up) was a silly suggestion on his part that someone RBing a kill and coming forward was a reason to vote for you (I am paraphrasing), which quite frankly is kinda dumb, but not lynch worthy.

Also, did you answer my question of why you alleged there was no bodyguard in the game? IS IMPORTANT!

[Silver Lantern]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

A reaver? What the hell is that?

You are Cerberus, and I think Long Con is too. You tried to kill me. It failed. So you made up this bullshit role block story.

You are bad.

Why would his kill on you fail?

[nutella]

Hazelnut you should switch, but review my ISO first.

He's here so this cfd wouldn't be out of nowhere. Nothing Gfish has said or done convinced me that he's good. He has convinced me that he thinks his role claim should be good enough for me to let him slide.

Okay. I trust you on this one. *Vote gfish*

[nutella]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

A reaver? What the hell is that?

You are Cerberus, and I think Long Con is too. You tried to kill me. It failed. So you made up this bullshit role block story.

You are bad.

This makes sense to me.

[DrWilgy]

Fred, JoH can both of you vote Gfish so we can give that wagon a chance.

To a point, but to me we're in the same position if we all switch from Jack to Gfish. I think either can go, I have less faith that either will at this point.

I just don't see how we need to play it safe at this point, we have leeway now. If you all think Epi is a safe lynch...doesn't it make more sense to save it for if we get in a situation where we need to be careful?

To EVERYONE we will gain mpre info from a JoH lynch than an Epi lynch.

We would gain the most info from a gfish lynch.

Isn't info what all civs thirst for?

[gfishfunk]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

I really think Jack is scum, so I prefer to vote for him over anyone else.

What do we have on Epi that makes you think he's scum? All I saw (and admittedly I did not catch up) was a silly suggestion on his part that someone RBing a kill and coming forward was a reason to vote for you (I am paraphrasing), which quite frankly is kinda dumb, but not lynch worthy.

Also, did you answer my question of why you alleged there was no bodyguard in the game? IS IMPORTANT!

Epi has admitted to be the neutral role Gesh. And Reavers, Reapers. Whatever. I like Firefly better.

The bodyguard was a misread of the role that died last night.

[Fredwood]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

A reaver? What the hell is that?

You are Cerberus, and I think Long Con is too. You tried to kill me. It failed. So you made up this bullshit role block story.

You are bad.

Why would his kill on you fail?

His Night action has a chance to deflect night actions. It really doesn't matter, they're both kind of using it as a smokescreen at this point, and our focus is way too frayed for comfort with all the voting shenanigans.

[Epignosis]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

A reaver? What the hell is that?

You are Cerberus, and I think Long Con is too. You tried to kill me. It failed. So you made up this bullshit role block story.

You are bad.

Why would his kill on you fail?

Damn, you are behind.

I protected myself with a 75% survival chance.

[Silver Lantern]

My suspicions are independent of Dom's and SVS. I'm pretty sure I explained it, Adam followed the logic. It's a combination of cost/benefit assessment and uncharacteristic opportunistic play. I really didn't like the switch to Epi from Silver, If you're that sure on Silver you stay on Silver and try building your case, especially in plurality. We're not at a point were we have to play it safe (even if we think Epi is a "safe" vote) we can afford to take a few risks. The more I think about an Epi lynch, the more it sounds dumb because we still have plays that provide a greater benefit then maintaining the status quo. Epi's only a lynch if we have no better alternatives.

Cause he's scum and he knows that once I come up town he's cooked. He's just desperately trying to take any attention away from himself, by any means necessary. Typical scum Jack.

OMFG F this Link crap...

[Fredwood]

My suspicions are independent of Dom's and SVS. I'm pretty sure I explained it, Adam followed the logic. It's a combination of cost/benefit assessment and uncharacteristic opportunistic play. I really didn't like the switch to Epi from Silver, If you're that sure on Silver you stay on Silver and try building your case, especially in plurality. We're not at a point were we have to play it safe (even if we think Epi is a "safe" vote) we can afford to take a few risks. The more I think about an Epi lynch, the more it sounds dumb because we still have plays that provide a greater benefit then maintaining the status quo. Epi's only a lynch if we have no better alternatives.

Cause he's scum and he knows that once I come up town he's cooked. He's just desperately trying to take any attention away from himself, by any means necessary. Typical scum Jack.

OMFG F this Link crap...

lol you catching up has shown how much I've had to repeat myself.

[Silver Lantern]

Okay obviously I am not gonna catch so I will try starting from the end and working my way back.

Hey Silver. Want to help lynch a possible Reaver and probable Scummy neutral? Vote Epignosis!

I really think Jack is scum, so I prefer to vote for him over anyone else.

What do we have on Epi that makes you think he's scum? All I saw (and admittedly I did not catch up) was a silly suggestion on his part that someone RBing a kill and coming forward was a reason to vote for you (I am paraphrasing), which quite frankly is kinda dumb, but not lynch worthy.

Also, did you answer my question of why you alleged there was no bodyguard in the game? IS IMPORTANT!

Epi has admitted to be the neutral role Gesh. And Reavers, Reapers. Whatever. I like Firefly better.

The bodyguard was a misread of the role that died last night.

Thanks for answering.

I just read the Geth Role. Frankly, I don't have an issue with him. I think that the fact that he claimed obviously means he plans to side with the Alliance. Why on earth claim otherwise? Is there another issue other then he *might* side with the mafia? Not to minimize the significance of that, but I hate to punish a neutral when they can help the town. Plus if he dissipated a kill, that only helps us no? If a kill gets MDed at him and it's disspiated that only helps us. What is the compelling reason to lynch him?

Did you claim?

[Fredwood]

He claimed one of 28 roleblocks

[Silver Lantern]

To EVERYONE we will gain mpre info from a JoH lynch than an Epi lynch.

We would gain the most info from a gfish lynch.

Isn't info what all civs thirst for?

To be frank at this point hasn't there been enough back and forth (guessing here) that we will get solid info from any of these lynches.

Cause if so, stop trying to make it seem like one is better than another. That just makes you seem like a team mate trying to protect Epi.