Mortal Kombat Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Kylemii]

*Vote Jimmy*

Most likely to switch to Made or Kyle.

Not voting Quin, Sloonei, Speed, Nutella.

I would like an explanation for several parts of this.

Specifically:
why likely to switch to me? or made?

what sticks out to you about speed that would make you not vote for him? same question about nutella?

Also why vote for Jimmy and then mention that it's not likely to be permanent within the exact same post?

[Elohcin]

Long Con can have a vote.

why LC?

He answered that, it's because I haven't contributed anything to the game. It's not because I'm bad, it's because I have nothing to say at this time. Only one thing has triggered me as suspicious, and it's Made's player salad a few posts back, asking like 10 people a different quick question. I'll vote for Made for now. Other than that, not much has pulled me into this game, just a lot of huffing and puffing that doesn't much strike me as particularly civ or bad.

I think he is just trying to get you to talk, I guess. I agree with you about made. I know I mentioned him earlier. But this new post of his pinged me too. Trying to get discussion is a good thing, but the way he is going about it doesn't seem civ. I will wait and see what he does with the answers he receives. 'Til then he remains a suspect of mine.

Can't finish catching up now....got some places to be. Be back late tonight.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I find this question posed by Jay to Quin to be rather odd. MacDougall had commented earlier that he was thinking similarly to Jay earlier but for Jay to be suggesting some kind of relationship between he and Mac out of the blue like this seems ‘unsettling’.

At that point in the thread, Mac and I had both been hounding Quin. I wanted to know what Quin thought of each of us, because one of my favorite ways to read people is to see how they handle their own accusers.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dave is moderately suspicious. I won't be lynching him today. I refuse to lynch any player in their first game on the site on Day 1.

[Quin]

Dave is moderately suspicious. I won't be lynching him today. I refuse to lynch any player in their first game on the site on Day 1.

this is my first game too

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella I take back what I said about you sitting on the fence. It doesn't read that way anymore. Instead I'm curious why your wafflyness on me is a point in favour of Sloonei's interpretation.

did I imply it was? I talked a little bit more about you in a later post, did you see that? Basically, I'm wary of misreading you or getting too persuaded by a case especially since I tinfoiled you in Mountains and you were town, but I do think the points on you have been compelling and I'm definitely keeping an eye on you as a potential candidate for my vote. I've gotten a more-town-than-not vibe from most of your responses though. So yeah, I'm waffly.

What points against Quin did you find compelling? What kinds of things has Quin said that you've found to be more-town-than-not?

[Jackofhearts2005]

*Vote Jimmy*

Most likely to switch to Made or Kyle.

Not voting Quin, Sloonei, Speed, Nutella.

I would like an explanation for several parts of this.

Specifically:
why likely to switch to me? or made?

what sticks out to you about speed that would make you not vote for him? same question about nutella?

Also why vote for Jimmy and then mention that it's not likely to be permanent within the exact same post?

Cause you don't shine. Cause Made's content looks fake. (These players know what I'm talking about.....or not. That was never a hint. Here are some unsubstantiated reads.)

I see what I expect to see from both as good guys.

Reasons.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

*Vote Jimmy*

Most likely to switch to Made or Kyle.

Not voting Quin, Sloonei, Speed, Nutella.

I would like an explanation for several parts of this.

Specifically:
why likely to switch to me? or made?

what sticks out to you about speed that would make you not vote for him? same question about nutella?

Also why vote for Jimmy and then mention that it's not likely to be permanent within the exact same post?

To expand on Kyle's question: if you anticipate a switch to Kyle or Made, Jack, why not just place one of those votes now?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I find this question posed by Jay to Quin to be rather odd. MacDougall had commented earlier that he was thinking similarly to Jay earlier but for Jay to be suggesting some kind of relationship between he and Mac out of the blue like this seems ‘unsettling’.

At that point in the thread, Mac and I had both been hounding Quin. I wanted to know what Quin thought of each of us, because one of my favorite ways to read people is to see how they handle their own accusers.

I could have told Glor this. I don't particularly like the way Glor framed the question because this seemed obvious to me.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Err statement.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*Vote Jimmy*

Most likely to switch to Made or Kyle.

Not voting Quin, Sloonei, Speed, Nutella.

I would like an explanation for several parts of this.

Specifically:
why likely to switch to me? or made?

what sticks out to you about speed that would make you not vote for him? same question about nutella?

Also why vote for Jimmy and then mention that it's not likely to be permanent within the exact same post?

To expand on Kyle's question: if you anticipate a switch to Kyle or Made, Jack, why not just place one of those votes now?

Why do we even include more than the bottom person on a rainbow list?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oh I understand the confusion.

You're reading that as "I will most likely switch to Kyle or Made instead of leaving my vote on Jimmy."

It should be read as "If I switch my vote, I will most likely switch to Kyle or Made."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why do we even include more than the bottom person on a rainbow list?

To have multiple suspects is just dandy. I don't follow the purpose of placing a vote and then relieving yourself of it in the same post by projecting a switch.

linki: okay, that makes more sense.

Now what's your most current beef?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

birdwithteeth11
Dave
Dom
DrWilgy
Elohcin
Glorfindel
Gumshoe
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Kylemii
lapluie
Long Con
MacDougall
Made
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Quin
sig
Simon
Sloonei
speedchuck
TonyStarkPrime

[Epignosis]

Much obliged.

[Glorfindel]

I find this question posed by Jay to Quin to be rather odd. MacDougall had commented earlier that he was thinking similarly to Jay earlier but for Jay to be suggesting some kind of relationship between he and Mac out of the blue like this seems ‘unsettling’.

At that point in the thread, Mac and I had both been hounding Quin. I wanted to know what Quin thought of each of us, because one of my favorite ways to read people is to see how they handle their own accusers.

I could have told Glor this. I don't particularly like the way Glor framed the question because this seemed obvious to me.

Well, it was not obvious to me, my friend. You could’ve told me that? Why didn’t you? I think you not ‘particularly liking the way I framed a quite legitimate question to Jay (in my humble opinion) to be in and of itself peculiar.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] - thank you muchly for your explanation answering my question

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hi friends
Glhf!

Voting Quin for now, but that might change as the day goes on depending on how he responds to arguments against him.

I changed my mind about Made's first post. It can still be called brazen in its opportunism, but I'm not a fan of the Captain Obvious "but..." disclaimer.

EBWOP: what do you THINK is my alignment?

probs indy tbh. i don't think you're last man standing, so probably the other one.

Made had previously called Sloonei red in some hypothetical [at that point] rainbow, and when pressed he provided this "probs indy" read. I wonder about the potential for deliberate goofball WIFOM here. I struggle to imagine a genuine indy read of the thread's highest poster on Day 0. Insincerity doesn't have to be an immediate issue when we're all throwing turds at the fence anyway, but this still represents a departure/backtrack from the declaration of Sloonei's redness.

hmm....my bad then. do you remember the last time you took any heat or got lynched?

He said at one point that it was interested to see Sloonei taking some heat for the first time. Nobody was giving Sloonei any heat except Made, and even that was hard to call "heat". Made's posts are nigh arbitrary.

Reply to Jay re Quin:
As a counter point, fake reads aren't hard. To steal your read on me Jay, I feel like a baddie would be more concerned with appearances than Quin seemed to be, and his reads would reflect that.

Logical reads don't always mean civve reads

I agree in principle. Is that why you're shoving illogical "probs indy" type reads into the thread by force?

[Kylemii]

Cause you don't shine.

I think this is probably a comment about how you perceive my level of genuine-ness? Is there anything beyond what you said about me before that makes you think this?

Cause Made's content looks fake. (These players know what I'm talking about.....or not. That was never a hint. Here are some unsubstantiated reads.)

I do get where you're coming from with this

I see what I expect to see from both as good guys.

could you plz be more specific about what you see that makes you feel that way? I assumed if you declare that you're not going to vote for someone then you'd probably have a reason to think they're good, I want to know what the reason is

Reasons.

the usual reason for temporary voting a player is to put them under pressure and feel them out. letting a player know ahead of time that your vote isn't permanent relieves that tension, divorcing the vote itself from it's original function

[Kylemii]

Oh I understand the confusion.

You're reading that as "I will most likely switch to Kyle or Made instead of leaving my vote on Jimmy."

It should be read as "If I switch my vote, I will most likely switch to Kyle or Made."

ohhh okay

[Sloonei]

I feel like voting for Jackofhearts. His vote for Jay felt less than authentic.

[Sloonei]

Oh I understand the confusion.

You're reading that as "I will most likely switch to Kyle or Made instead of leaving my vote on Jimmy."

It should be read as "If I switch my vote, I will most likely switch to Kyle or Made."

But I just went through all the effort of casting and announcing thr vote. Ugh.

[Sloonei]

Dave is moderately suspicious. I won't be lynching him today. I refuse to lynch any player in their first game on the site on Day 1.

Ditto

[Sloonei]

Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

It does on some level remind me of The Scummiest Thing Sloonei Has Ever Said® -- I hope this doesn't start a bandwagon

[Glorfindel]

Page 3 - Key take-aways:

Spoiler: show

Kyle, which one of me or Jay is scum?

I missed this question before. Jay is a player who, in recent history has tricked me enough that I now try to prioritize reading him asap. I've also noticed that, in general, reading one of you or Jay seems to lead to having a read on the other sooner or later.

I see both of you putting early day 0 effort into throwing sticks in people's spokes, but nothing too hardlined yet, which is understandable cus it's day 0 and 2/3 of the game hasn't checked in yet.

I guess that doesn't really answer the question

We’re only on page 3 but this post seems to reinforce my concerns about Kyle. He’d made no attempt to engage with anyone until this point (perhaps deliberately) and now this exchange appears clumsy and awkward. It leaves me wondering if this may just be a ‘Kyle thing’ and not something that may perhaps be alignment indicative.

Spoiler: show

Oh haha making a Quin suspicion joke apparently that's not original this game. That's what I get for not catching up before posting.

So hey poll. I voted not-bad place because hanging around in mafia territory sounds like a bad idea? Feel like people are overthinking it, but hey, you guys have played more epi games than me.

Townread on quin. I have read quin correctly in 100% plus or minus 30% of the games I've played with him. So it's basically certain that he's town.

Here we have Chuckle’s entrance into the game - again, appears a little awkward. “plus or minus 30% my friend? That’s one hell of a margin for error! I’m not sure I see the point of this read on Quin.

Dave enters the game, states that he is new (alarms ringing here in respect of future votes on him) and sheeps Jay’s take on the poll. Not usually a bad person to sheep on (off?) but not a fan of his logic on this matter as I’d discussed in an earlier post.

This page I’m seeing more from Sloonei (i.e. strategising about poll selections, thoughts on Quin). Not completely sold on the Quin thing but his posts strike me as considered, thoughtful and genuine. Town read starting to firm.

Entrance by novaselinever seems unremarkable. I get a sense of trepidation on their part entering the game which in my view is well justified. I wish them and Dave the very best this game.

Increasing discomfort with Chuckles. Can’t quite put my finger on it but he is seriously driving a null read for me here. Looking forward to see how things develop with him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Glorfindel is confirmed town.

[Glorfindel]

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] :Buddy, I listened to some of your posts on the Vocaroo game and seriously, you could make a fortune recording e-books or something. I could listen to your voice for hours on end and be enthralled even if you were reading nursery rhymes. Just sayin’

[Jackofhearts2005]

Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

What makes you think I'm trying to seem confident about votes on Day 1?

Why do you think I'm "choreographing" reads? I'm not sure what that means.

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei :Buddy, I listened to some of your posts on the Vocaroo game and seriously, you could make a fortune recording e-books or something. I could listen to your voice for hours on end and be enthralled even if you were reading nursery rhymes. Just sayin’

I'm happy my voice is perceived as a pleasant one. I'll find a career as an e-book readse just for you

[Sloonei]

Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

What makes you think I'm trying to seem confident about votes on Day 1?

Why do you think I'm "choreographing" reads? I'm not sure what that means.

I don't thin you're trying to be confident. A better way to put it is that I didn't sense conviction in your vote. By "choreographing reads" I mean I get the impression you are merely listing names to be pursued rather than doing anything meaningful in that post.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

It does on some level remind me of The Scummiest Thing Sloonei Has Ever Said® -- I hope this doesn't start a bandwagon

I don't mind starting bandwagons.

It's more like I see no purpose in ending the day as the only voter for a given player. I'd take lynching Made if others are suspicious of him over being the only person to vote for you while say Quin gets lynched.

[Quin]

Glorfindel is confirmed town.

Getting him to lie to you in Mad Max was like pulling teeth from chickens.

If he says he's town, I ain't lynching him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

What makes you think I'm trying to seem confident about votes on Day 1?

Why do you think I'm "choreographing" reads? I'm not sure what that means.

I don't thin you're trying to be confident. A better way to put it is that I didn't sense conviction in your vote. By "choreographing reads" I mean I get the impression you are merely listing names to be pursued rather than doing anything meaningful in that post.

So noted.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Glorfindel is confirmed town.

Getting him to lie to you in Mad Max was like pulling teeth from chickens.

If he says he's town, I ain't lynching him.

I always hope a nonliar is playing a long con and this kinda behavior will come back to bite you.

Never happens. Just comes back to bite the nonliar and frustrate their teammates.

One time, I was in a monster mafia game and our resident non liar claimed Godzilla, who had killed in the writeup. Everyone believed him of course and he won the game...as mafia. Godzilla kills other monsters after all.

[speedchuck]

So Jack. Maybe you're just getting around to it, but why the jjj vote? I already tried to get an answer, so I'll be straightforward. Why?

[Quin]

Glorfindel is confirmed town.

Getting him to lie to you in Mad Max was like pulling teeth from chickens.

If he says he's town, I ain't lynching him.

I always hope a nonliar is playing a long con and this kinda behavior will come back to bite you.

Never happens. Just comes back to bite the nonliar and frustrate their teammates.

One time, I was in a monster mafia game and our resident non liar claimed Godzilla, who had killed in the writeup. Everyone believed him of course and he won the game...as mafia. Godzilla kills other monsters after all.

Well, when he draws a scum role he's gonna be in for a world of hurt, innit?

It's not like I'm gonna let him float forever. I just trust his word enough to give him a pass for now.

[Glorfindel]

Glorfindel is confirmed town.

Getting him to lie to you in Mad Max was like pulling teeth from chickens.

If he says he's town, I ain't lynching him.

I always hope a nonliar is playing a long con and this kinda behavior will come back to bite you.

Never happens. Just comes back to bite the nonliar and frustrate their teammates.

One time, I was in a monster mafia game and our resident non liar claimed Godzilla, who had killed in the writeup. Everyone believed him of course and he won the game...as mafia. Godzilla kills other monsters after all.

I’ve already addressed this matter this game and will not allow it to become a distraction. Case closed.

[Jackofhearts2005]

So Jack. Maybe you're just getting around to it, but why the jjj vote? I already tried to get an answer, so I'll be straightforward. Why?

He feels wrong. Started feeling slightly wrong. Particularly, when he started defending himself, he was overly aggressive and nitpicky. Then someone (Mac or Sloonei iirc) said they thought I came out better in our back and forth so I know it's not just me thinking Jimmy feels off, which is emboldening.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Glorfindel[/mention]

That's fair and I think you've made a good decision from a game theory perspective.

If you can't lie, also don't tell the truth. Allows good guy and bad guy Glor to not look so different. What's done is done, though. I believe you to be town.

[Quin]

I want to hear more from [mention]lapluie[/mention]. Most of her responses are in a back and forth with Sloonei, which is understandable given its her first game here and she's sticking to who she knows. I'd still like to see her mingle a bit. She brings a good perspective to games when she gets settled.

lapluie:

1. What do you think about Made?
2. Why is Marmot's vote for nova more likely to come from scum than town?
3. Tell me something new.

[Quin]

[mention]Made[/mention] I'd still like to know how your read on me progressed.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jack, please describe the things you expect from a civilian JJJ which are not represented in this game thread.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[mention]Kylemii[/mention]

RE: Speedchuck

Sorry I don't have a good answer. Soul read. Not a ping.

RE:Nutella

I like these posts a lot.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 12#p393812

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 14#p393614

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 13#p393613

Getting right to work and finding good guys. That's what I expect from good Nutella.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack, please describe the things you expect from a civilian JJJ which are not represented in this game thread.

More thought. More questions. Less "no you."

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jack, please describe the things you expect from a civilian JJJ which are not represented in this game thread.

More thought. More questions. Less "no you."

The first two assertions suggest to me that you're not reading my posts. The last suggestion requires expansion -- show me where I have committed a "no you" and then tell me why you give a shit about that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack, please describe the things you expect from a civilian JJJ which are not represented in this game thread.

More thought. More questions. Less "no you."

The first two assertions suggest to me that you're not reading my posts. The last suggestion requires expansion -- show me where I have committed a "no you" and then tell me why you give a shit about that.

If you say so.

Would you say I'm incorrect if I said "A key component of your suspicion (real or fake) on me is my suspicion (real or fake) on you?"

Why wouldn't I care about that?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you say so.

Would you say I'm incorrect if I said "A key component of your suspicion (real or fake) on me is my suspicion (real or fake) on you?"

Why wouldn't I care about that?

Your handling of me has contributed to my suspicion of you, yes. I had you orange in my rainbow list before you voiced that suspicion.

In a vacuum, I often find accusations of "no you" "omgus" to be the sort of near-meaningless weak sauce that anti-civilian accusers try to live on. I want meaningful justification for those accusations.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let's rewind a bit.

I don't think this part was ever addressed.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... nd#p393853

Jimmy: Gross. You are trying as hard as you can to gripe about my motions against Quin, and the result is this b/s about the "portion" of my content. You try to wiggle into this stance of suspicion on me but can't quite find the courage to just do it.

"Paints him in a bad light" / "Hard to not be disappointed", BUT IhavenoideaifthisisactuallyalignmentindicativeandIamtalkingoutofmyarse.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... nd#p393858

Jack:JimmyJimmyJimmy, I actually don't know what your alignment is, which is why I'm saying such things. I clearly read you all wrong in the one mafia game we were in together for more than a phase while you were bad (Mountains), reading you as strongly w/w with several players you were not (Mal, Quin) and not with players that you were (Eloh, Doc). To what end would bad Jack go halfway on this?




Did you ever answer this question, [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] ?

[Jackofhearts2005]

If you say so.

Would you say I'm incorrect if I said "A key component of your suspicion (real or fake) on me is my suspicion (real or fake) on you?"

Why wouldn't I care about that?

Your handling of me has contributed to my suspicion of you, yes. I had you orange in my rainbow list before you voiced that suspicion.

In a vacuum, I often find accusations of "no you" "omgus" to be the sort of near-meaningless weak sauce that anti-civilian accusers try to live on. I want meaningful justification for those accusations.

Is that really what you think? That I'm a baddie trying to justify my accusation?

And earlier, I was a baddie lacking the courage to accuse you?

I don't think you think these things.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To what end would bad Jack go halfway on this?

I'm loud. I respond to accusations. When bad guys accuse me, they are aware that I will say something about it. The assertion here is that you were barely dipping your toes into this suspicion of me, creating this negative environment in the game thread for me by meandering around your read (both "suspicious" and "disappointing" simultaneously) in such a way that when the time to vote comes, you can justify voting for me or not voting for me simultaneously. It's borne out that way too as you have placed a vote for me and in the same breath projected your movement from that vote.

I have stated repeatedly that your handling of me has at best been confusing. Do you acknowledge that I might reasonably be confused by what you have done with me in this game?

If you say so.

Would you say I'm incorrect if I said "A key component of your suspicion (real or fake) on me is my suspicion (real or fake) on you?"

Why wouldn't I care about that?

Your handling of me has contributed to my suspicion of you, yes. I had you orange in my rainbow list before you voiced that suspicion.

In a vacuum, I often find accusations of "no you" "omgus" to be the sort of near-meaningless weak sauce that anti-civilian accusers try to live on. I want meaningful justification for those accusations.

Is that really what you think? That I'm a baddie trying to justify my accusation?

And earlier, I was a baddie lacking the courage to accuse you?

I don't think you think these things.

That's not what I said. You're not reading my posts. I didn't say "Jack is trying to justify his accusations". I said "'no you'" is a weak accusation in a vacuum and when I see it I want to see it meaningfully justified". When you told me that as a civilian I would be less inclined toward "no you", you did not justify that assertion. I asked for a justification. That is the opposite of me telling you that you're a baddie trying to justify an accusation.