Game of Champions 2017 - GAME OVER

[sprityo]

Thought - is refrigerator bad?

Kept targeting supatown SVS, targeted me who was (supposedly) unlynchable anyway, now targets Kyle on a day he's likely to get a lot of attention.

Do you think one of Dom or Epi is bad is the derivative of what you’re asking

[colonialbob]

Thought - is refrigerator bad?

Kept targeting supatown SVS, targeted me who was (supposedly) unlynchable anyway, now targets Kyle on a day he's likely to get a lot of attention.

Do you think one of Dom or Epi is bad is the derivative of what you’re asking

Couldn't remember the remaining options, but yes. Although if possible I'd like to separate the questions for now, to avoid halo effect biasing any thoughts on the actions themselves.

[colonialbob]

When did Ben start appearing?

[Scotty]

Im just gonna try to post this once a phase until I die or the hosts put up a comparable list on the front page, cuz my memory ain’t what it used to be and it's a pain to search for this shit. I’ll do this one with only the facts as we know it:

DEATHS:

Color key:
Out of game, mafia team Evil Evens
Out of game, mafia team Strexcorp
Out of game, Civilian
Out of game, alignment unknown

D1 - Quin (no lynch) (link)
N1 - nijuu (link)
D2 - speedchuck (link)
N2 - Scotty (link)
D3 - nutella (changed from DDL) (link)
N3 - JackofHearts (link)
insertnamehere dies (link)
D4 - Long Con (link)
N4 - No kill (link)
D5 - Long Con (link)
N5 - Sig (link)
D6 - Colonialbob (link)
N6 - SVS (link)
D7 - Marmot (link)

BUTTON

N7 - JackofHearts (link)
Nutella dies (link)
D8 - Marmot (link)
N8 - Sprityo (link)
LoRab Dies (link)

MERGE

D9 - Wilgy (link)
N9 - DharmaHelper (link)
D10 - speedchuck (link)
N10 - No kill (link)
D11- Wilgy (link)
N11 - Dharma Helper (link)
D13 - sig (link)
N13 - Quin (link)

—————————————————————————

Current Lives Left (as of D13)

Boomslang - 2
colonialbob - 1
Dom - 2
Dragon D Luffy - 2
Epignosis - 2
insertnamehere - 1
Kylemii - 2
LoRab - 1
Nijuu - 1
Quin - 1
Scotty - 1
Sloonei - 2
SpaceDaisy - 2
sprityo - 1
SVS - 1

[Scotty]

fark, D13 and N13 should be D12 and N12. I can't even get one simple thing right

[Scotty]

When did Ben start appearing?

He came in on the 2nd half of Day 12, which means this was activated via an unknown ability or it is timed. If someone has been sitting on this power, then it's been for some time now. The last person to gain a 2nd role and still be alive is LoRab back in D9.

funny side note: LoRab and Ben both have the same number of posts in this thread, which is also almost twice as many as Boomslang.

[Scotty]

Ok, I think I've got a silkworm making a nest in my brain and he's telling me Sloonei is bad. Let me take you on a journey, like that conveyor-belt 70's ride in the ball of Epcot.

In identifying Marmot, Sloonei gains that town cred and can take it a little easier on the backburner the rest of the game. He susses out Wilgy because he's been buddying Daisy and views her as strong town. He also viewed me as strong town too, but when people started coming after me, he didn't so much call me town as he used to- instead it was more of a 'i'd rather not lynch him now'. Subtle. More on this in a sec.

So he's firmly in the non-strex camp, because of his marmot sniffing. Then he goes after Wilgy, an inactive, and another Strex. goodie on him in hindsight.

But let's cut to the swap.

When we come over to Pikachu, there are 3 original Pikachus there- DH, sprityo, and Epi. We discover sprityo is a "townfirm" and DH keeps harping on that on D9. Then Boom, he dead that night. Why would mafia want to kill him? Well, for one, it's as anonymous as you can get- killing a townfirm doesn't technically implicate anyone, because people generally view him as confirmed town. BUT. DH then immediately calls that out and says one of the new guys killed him. Makes sense.

Now I'm not sure mafia was planning on the connection being made. And if they were, then they're in a not bad position, because now all they have to do is go along with it and agree. Because if you do start mechanically lynching Wilgy, Me, Kyle, Daisy and Sloonei in a line, you're probably going to find the mafia, but not before you get some mislynches in. If you're a betting man (or woman).

So Wilgy is lynched (-1 life) when we merge on D9, and on D10, speedchuck is lynched over Wilgy. This lynch is great if you don't want to take sides.

I'm not quite fully on board the speedchuck train right now. I've got ny boarding pass and I'm standing on the platform, but I'm hesitating there. Many signs point to him as bad. I take his effort in recent phases with a grain of salt for two reasons: first, he is speedchuck, and second, scum have about as much incentive to hunt as do civilians in a game with multiple scum teams. If the prevailing assumption about nutella flipping him is true then there's no question. But there could be mechanics we don't know of, somethin else could have prompted his flip, and it could be true. I don't know.

But the mystery of some unknown hypothetical isn't really good enough to move him to a town read for me. His lynch feels more or less inevitable and I think we'd be right to do it. But I'm not certain and I don't want to do it carelessly.

Also I feel plenty good about wilgy too. I don't mind lynching him first. I might be more confident about him.

I don't like the case against INH at all. His vote for wilgy yesterday was not really suspect and it would be the dumbest and most unnecessary slip up ever if that's really what it was. It's not.

@Sloonei I also believe speed looks very townie atm.

It’s what I would do if I wanted the town to trust me when all signs proverbially pointed to me being bad. I’d want to pick it up a notch and put forth my best effort.

He could be town, and in that case I’m super sorry that things are panning out this way.

If he’s good and we lynch him, the best thing he can do in any situation is leave us a legacy, like my uncle.

speedchuck is one of the best fakers i've ever played with. For what it is worth

Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?

WHO DO YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR???

When speed is mislynched:

svs said this would happen

svs said a lot of things. Are you placing blame here or just lamenting?

Neither. Why would it have to be one of those two things?

THEN WHY BRING IT UP AT ALL?!


This is textbook playing both sides. If the lynch feels more or less inevitable, why not just vote for him? He even responds to me, calling speedchuck one of the best fakers he's ever played with. But it's safer, and looks better in the interim, if Sloonei instead does a continuation vote for Wilgy. No one will fault him for that, and if speed is good, that looks even better for him. If Wilgy is bad, then fan-fucking-tastic. It's a win-win.

But I am arguing that he took no strong stance at all in that lynch. Wishy-washy. Like eating a tide pod and wishing for death wishy washy.

I've been less engaged with this game since the merge happened for a handful of RL reasons. I'll come back to it soon, but I've also been feeling a bit complacent since that one day I was in Pikachu. we still have lost more mafia than civilians in this game.

Fast forward to N10. Nothing happened! ooooooo 2spooky4me. It could be that no one submitted a NK, which would doubly increase Sloonei's narrative that a bad Wilgy inactive was Even, and would probably get Wilgy killed. It could also mean some other powers were at play, but who knows.

Sloonei knows.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Host post may suggest an inactive baddie team.

The host post mentions a mafia team failing to show up. I'm just tryna point that out, y'all.

Way to push the narrative.

But Wilgy is lynched D11 and ohhhh he's not an even. Back to the drawing board, though Sloonei now has caught TWO baddies! He must be super town now.

But there's still pushback about the whole Even's killing sprityo from people. Time to push that narrative:

I'll ask this again: what evidence is there that the Evens kill on even nights and strex on odd?

Nice and subtle, but it's a look-the-other-way and see if anyone looks with you. Maybe that can get the town off systematically lynching the only 4 real candidates of Kyle, Me, Daisy or Sloonei.

Nope, Daisy even wants to see it out. So Sloonei goes along.

This is totally subjective on my part.

Let's start tossing out theories and punching holes in them, or finding things that back them up.

Here’s another one- Sloonei is an evil even.

We do still need to figure out who killed sprityo. I'm starting to think it might have been kyle.

But I say that with extreme hesitation and uncertainty. How do people feel about kyle?

"Could be Kyle, but it could also not be kyle. Someone else take the lead, because I don't want to go down this path"

He makes some comments that make me want to chuckle out loud (col) on account of the blatant hypocrisy:

ebwop, also Sloonei has said I was his on;y bad read from when he watched us. But this is his first mention of it, or me (other than in passing about the Speed lynch) since the tribes merged.

Wonder why supaciv did not mention his one bad read in front of me? This was his one mention of it, when he got to Pikachu, but he did not say why and he did not bring it up again.

Am I suspicious for not mentioning it to you earlier?

Also I have not been supaciv in this thread.

I am glad I'm not alone in disliking that comment. Not only because it's directed toward me, but because of how unsubstantiated it is. Sig first states that he wants to "even the playing field" (what?) by lynching me (what?), and then after that vaguely alludes to a suspicion against me which has existed all game long but never been substantiated in any meaningful way. I get that that's kind of sig's thing, but he's been making comments like that about me all game without ever backing them up.

That said, I have no interest in defending myself because, in my own humble opinion, I think I look town as fuck and any suspicion against me is paranoid tinfoiling or a blatant fabrication. Lynching me might help some people, but I'd rather not lose a life over that.

Someone really doesn't want to go down this path of lynching.

Right out of the gate on D12, he votes DDL. Why? I dunno, and neither does Sloonei. But it's putting focus away from the whole Pikachu 2.0 Even conspiracy and not taking any firm stances.

Commander Sloonei
What brought about your idea
That Mii is evil?

It's not a fully assured idea yet, but it stems from process of elimination when looking at the Pikachu 2.0 crew. Same as what brought me to suspect wilgy earlier. If we assume that the Evil Evens killed sprityo, then there must have been an Even in Pikachu with us.

It is possible that we've been on the wrong path about this and that strex kills on even nights while the Evens kill on odd nights. It is counter-intuitive, but that might be the point. If it weren't for the theory about evens killing sprit, I'd probably not suspect anyone from Pikachu 2.0.

I should look back and see if there was any resistance to the nutella suspicion before she got blown up.

Again, pushing this narrative.

He tried, but many people are looking to go down that path. He eventually caves and starts posting like he's doing work again:

So we can assume there is an Even among these people:
Epginosis
Kylemii
Scotty
Sloonei
Spacedaisy

excluded sprityo because I don't think he killed himself.

This would also mean that the configuration of Pikachu 2.0 was 2 evens vs 2 strex vs 6 townies. (or x-number of townies vs x-number of indies, if we wanna go down that rabbit hole). And we still managed to eliminate two baddies in one day.

and then votes kyle. But the thing is, no one is really biting on kyle- they all want me dead.

Feel worse about [VOTE: Scotty] aubergine than DDL now.

tell me why.
and what's kyle got that scotty doesn't?

I think Scotty used his interaction post as a means to lynch INH, not as an actual attempt to develop an informed read.

i dunno about kyle. he's not been on my radar. Should I be more worried about him than Scotty?

Maybe. Maybe not. Scotty would be my second choice among that group.

"but guyyysss, Scotty is my 2nd choice, let's stick the firrrrst choice, Kyle, who is maybe bad probably?"


Now see this is where I should be #grateful because he stuck his neck out for me here. But did he, really? He did, after all, say I was the 2nd choice. Not really a soaring recommendation. You know what else this reminds me of? speedchuck/wilgy lynch of D11. Verrrry similar, aint it?

I don't really want to lynch scotty

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

i'm doing thangs today. don't want to lynch scotty.

awww. He doesn't really want to lynch me -> doesn't want to lynch me. I think this is genuine. You know why? Because the longer he can delay one of Kyle, Me, Daisy or himself, the longer he won't have to be put on the gallows himself when it goes mislynch after mislynch.

I'm kind of confused as to why you are trying so hard to force the Evens to kill on odd nights. All of the evidence points to otherwise.

It's mostly due to me struggling to find either Scotty or Kyle seriously suspicious.

Now I would be remiss and hypocritical if I didn't mention that I also was attempting to steer away from the Pikachu 2.0 sprityo theory yesterday. I did, absolutely, because I felt more thread-based evidence was to be gained from linking Wilgy and Marmot to someone else. If Strex was all on Bidoof 1.0, then we're bound to find at least another Strex on that tribe. Which I think is INH, but that's for another time.

I think today, to nip this in the bud, and because I'm feeling very strongly this case, I'd push for a Sloonei lynch today.

Vote Sloonei aubergine

[Sloonei]

Nope

[Scotty]

Nope

unvote. Vote Sloonei tangerine

[Scotty]

But like Sloonei, even you must admit, one of the 4 of us, not counting Epi, has to be an Even, right?

[Sloonei]

Lynching me might be helpful to some, but once again, I'd prefer not to lose a life. Much of what scotty is criticizing me for is just my regular style of play. Where he sees me "pushing narratives", I am trying to generate discussion. Where he sees me "playing both sides", I am considering all possible angles to a problem. This is all magnified by my inability to commit to and focus on this game right now, thus preventing me from forming any really strong reads from in-thread material. Scotty's skepticism does not feel fake, but it's off the mark. And this exemplifies why I'm struggling so much to accept that there is a baddie in our Pikachu pool. He looks authentic, Epi looks authentic, Daisy looks authentic. Kyle is in the same boat as me, but I struggle to find him genuinely suspicious. I don't apologize for this, it simply is what it is.

I'm not able to dive into things right now, and that will remain true for a while longer. I can be sporadically active in the thread though, and when I have a chance to, I'm going to try to get people talking. It's how I prefer to approach the game rather than playing perpetual catch-up.

[Sloonei]

But like Sloonei, even you must admit, one of the 4 of us, not counting Epi, has to be an Even, right?

It's likely. But I struggle to name any of you as a suspect independently. I've never said anything different.

[Sloonei]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Scotty, mafia doesn't decide not to kill a player just to push some wifom narrative people may or may not adopt.

[Sloonei]

I voted for DDL yesterday because I wanted there to be conversation about him. No one was biting.

I floated cbob's name today because I wanted there to be conversation about him. No one was biting.

[Sloonei]

Which mafia team isn't paying attention? I don't hate your suggestion though. The only suspects I've promoted have been DDL, Scotty and Sloonei (to a much lesser degree). If they're all good it's an easy distance kill.

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

[Scotty]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

No you weren't- in my little case against you, I even proved you weren't- and as a matter of fact, after DH did introduce it, you gave some subtle pushback and said:

It took like 6 nights for anyone from this tribe to be nightkilled.

And you lot turn up and we start dying straight off.

SVS died before we got here

and pushed your idea that Wilgy was then the one to do so, fitting your narrative.

[Scotty]

Scotty, mafia doesn't decide not to kill a player just to push some wifom narrative people may or may not adopt.

Praytell then, what does mafia do?

[sprityo]

I voted for DDL yesterday because I wanted there to be conversation about him. No one was biting.

I floated cbob's name today because I wanted there to be conversation about him. No one was biting.

It’s hard to get bites when all the fish in the lake are floating st the surface

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Scotty, mafia doesn't decide not to kill a player just to push some wifom narrative people may or may not adopt.

Praytell then, what does mafia do?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sorry broken quote.

They kill people.

Not killing people means there is one more civ they have to lynch.

[Sloonei]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

No you weren't- in my little case against you, I even proved you weren't- and as a matter of fact, after DH did introduce it, you gave some subtle pushback and said:

It took like 6 nights for anyone from this tribe to be nightkilled.

And you lot turn up and we start dying straight off.

SVS died before we got here

and pushed your idea that Wilgy was then the one to do so, fitting your narrative.

In the current form of the discussion, I was. People were moving past it after we lynched wilgy til I heroically stepped forward and brought order and reason back to our midst. Plus DH's argument was different anyway. He was just arguing that a member of Cerberus killed sprit because it happened when we showed up. I have been arguing that sprit was killed by a member of the Evil Evens who was there with us for days. Why would I perform a kill and then immediately start screaming for everyone to look at me as the culprit?

[Scotty]

Which mafia team isn't paying attention? I don't hate your suggestion though. The only suspects I've promoted have been DDL, Scotty and Sloonei (to a much lesser degree). If they're all good it's an easy distance kill.

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

maybe, but there's no true way of knowing this. I looked up Kyle's participation during N10- he posted a bevy of times and could have easily been around to submit a kill.

This could be the case, sure. I'm not convinced though.

At the end of the day, the remaining candidates (You, SD, Kyle and Epi) all have 2 lives, so I would very much like to be right here so we don't go through and mislynch everyone until we get to you. Because if kyle's good, then he's a very easy scapegoat here.

[Scotty]

Sorry broken quote.

They kill people.

Not killing people means there is one more civ they have to lynch.

You're telling me that a mafia team has never outright held off on a kill in order to incite discussion?

[Scotty]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

No you weren't- in my little case against you, I even proved you weren't- and as a matter of fact, after DH did introduce it, you gave some subtle pushback and said:

It took like 6 nights for anyone from this tribe to be nightkilled.

And you lot turn up and we start dying straight off.

SVS died before we got here

and pushed your idea that Wilgy was then the one to do so, fitting your narrative.

In the current form of the discussion, I was. People were moving past it after we lynched wilgy til I heroically stepped forward and brought order and reason back to our midst. Plus DH's argument was different anyway. He was just arguing that a member of Cerberus killed sprit because it happened when we showed up. I have been arguing that sprit was killed by a member of the Evil Evens who was there with us for days. Why would I perform a kill and then immediately start screaming for everyone to look at me as the culprit?

Easy. Someone else already brought it up, it was a valid argument, so you go along with it to look town. And you weren't screaming about it, man. You were squeaking about it. Sometimes putting things out there and saying 'I could be bad, see?' is a great way to give yourself credibility

[Sloonei]

Which mafia team isn't paying attention? I don't hate your suggestion though. The only suspects I've promoted have been DDL, Scotty and Sloonei (to a much lesser degree). If they're all good it's an easy distance kill.

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

maybe, but there's no true way of knowing this. I looked up Kyle's participation during N10- he posted a bevy of times and could have easily been around to submit a kill.

This could be the case, sure. I'm not convinced though.

At the end of the day, the remaining candidates (You, SD, Kyle and Epi) all have 2 lives, so I would very much like to be right here so we don't go through and mislynch everyone until we get to you. Because if kyle's good, then he's a very easy scapegoat here.

To be clear, you think I withheld a kill on Night 10 so that I could implicate wilgy, even though I knew it would be revealed that he was not responsible for the missed kill immediately after, and was more than likely going to be lynched next anyway?

[Sloonei]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

No you weren't- in my little case against you, I even proved you weren't- and as a matter of fact, after DH did introduce it, you gave some subtle pushback and said:

It took like 6 nights for anyone from this tribe to be nightkilled.

And you lot turn up and we start dying straight off.

SVS died before we got here

and pushed your idea that Wilgy was then the one to do so, fitting your narrative.

In the current form of the discussion, I was. People were moving past it after we lynched wilgy til I heroically stepped forward and brought order and reason back to our midst. Plus DH's argument was different anyway. He was just arguing that a member of Cerberus killed sprit because it happened when we showed up. I have been arguing that sprit was killed by a member of the Evil Evens who was there with us for days. Why would I perform a kill and then immediately start screaming for everyone to look at me as the culprit?

Easy. Someone else already brought it up, it was a valid argument, so you go along with it to look town. And you weren't screaming about it, man. You were squeaking about it. Sometimes putting things out there and saying 'I could be bad, see?' is a great way to give yourself credibility

Why is it that when I do something you don't like I'm "pushing narratives" but when I do something that might be good I'm "squeaking"?

[Scotty]

Which mafia team isn't paying attention? I don't hate your suggestion though. The only suspects I've promoted have been DDL, Scotty and Sloonei (to a much lesser degree). If they're all good it's an easy distance kill.

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

maybe, but there's no true way of knowing this. I looked up Kyle's participation during N10- he posted a bevy of times and could have easily been around to submit a kill.

This could be the case, sure. I'm not convinced though.

At the end of the day, the remaining candidates (You, SD, Kyle and Epi) all have 2 lives, so I would very much like to be right here so we don't go through and mislynch everyone until we get to you. Because if kyle's good, then he's a very easy scapegoat here.

To be clear, you think I withheld a kill on Night 10 so that I could implicate wilgy, even though I knew it would be revealed that he was not responsible for the missed kill immediately after, and was more than likely going to be lynched next anyway?

Sure.

Or as I said, other things could have happened and the kill wasn't purposely withheld. Could have been a block or a save or something. But when it didn't go through, in any case, it was an easy next step to continue pushing for wilgy.

[Sloonei]

Which mafia team isn't paying attention? I don't hate your suggestion though. The only suspects I've promoted have been DDL, Scotty and Sloonei (to a much lesser degree). If they're all good it's an easy distance kill.

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

maybe, but there's no true way of knowing this. I looked up Kyle's participation during N10- he posted a bevy of times and could have easily been around to submit a kill.

This could be the case, sure. I'm not convinced though.

At the end of the day, the remaining candidates (You, SD, Kyle and Epi) all have 2 lives, so I would very much like to be right here so we don't go through and mislynch everyone until we get to you. Because if kyle's good, then he's a very easy scapegoat here.

To be clear, you think I withheld a kill on Night 10 so that I could implicate wilgy, even though I knew it would be revealed that he was not responsible for the missed kill immediately after, and was more than likely going to be lynched next anyway?

Sure.

Or as I said, other things could have happened and the kill wasn't purposely withheld. Could have been a block or a save or something. But when it didn't go through, in any case, it was an easy next step to continue pushing for wilgy.

I'm insulted that you'd think I'd approach the game this way if I was bad. That is dumb.

[Scotty]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

No you weren't- in my little case against you, I even proved you weren't- and as a matter of fact, after DH did introduce it, you gave some subtle pushback and said:

It took like 6 nights for anyone from this tribe to be nightkilled.

And you lot turn up and we start dying straight off.

SVS died before we got here

and pushed your idea that Wilgy was then the one to do so, fitting your narrative.

In the current form of the discussion, I was. People were moving past it after we lynched wilgy til I heroically stepped forward and brought order and reason back to our midst. Plus DH's argument was different anyway. He was just arguing that a member of Cerberus killed sprit because it happened when we showed up. I have been arguing that sprit was killed by a member of the Evil Evens who was there with us for days. Why would I perform a kill and then immediately start screaming for everyone to look at me as the culprit?

Easy. Someone else already brought it up, it was a valid argument, so you go along with it to look town. And you weren't screaming about it, man. You were squeaking about it. Sometimes putting things out there and saying 'I could be bad, see?' is a great way to give yourself credibility

Why is it that when I do something you don't like I'm "pushing narratives" but when I do something that might be good I'm "squeaking"?

I'm looking at you under a lens, so pushing narratives is just another way of how it fits my thinking. And I'm not comparing you doing "something good". I'm saying you were hardly screaming for people to start looking at you as a culprit. I think I did a pretty good job of pointing out that you were doing it out of necessity because everyone else was looking that way.

[Scotty]

Which mafia team isn't paying attention? I don't hate your suggestion though. The only suspects I've promoted have been DDL, Scotty and Sloonei (to a much lesser degree). If they're all good it's an easy distance kill.

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

maybe, but there's no true way of knowing this. I looked up Kyle's participation during N10- he posted a bevy of times and could have easily been around to submit a kill.

This could be the case, sure. I'm not convinced though.

At the end of the day, the remaining candidates (You, SD, Kyle and Epi) all have 2 lives, so I would very much like to be right here so we don't go through and mislynch everyone until we get to you. Because if kyle's good, then he's a very easy scapegoat here.

To be clear, you think I withheld a kill on Night 10 so that I could implicate wilgy, even though I knew it would be revealed that he was not responsible for the missed kill immediately after, and was more than likely going to be lynched next anyway?

Sure.

Or as I said, other things could have happened and the kill wasn't purposely withheld. Could have been a block or a save or something. But when it didn't go through, in any case, it was an easy next step to continue pushing for wilgy.

I'm insulted that you'd think I'd approach the game this way if I was bad. That is dumb.

Dude, I dunno what you would do as a baddie. Sorry you're insulted. How the kill failed is irrelevant anyway, it's how you framed it.

[Sloonei]

A reminder that I was the one who initially introduced this line of thought. I'm not averse to or unfamiliar with it. I'm just hesitant because I read the entire pool of players as town, so I'm exploring possible alternatives where I can.

No you weren't- in my little case against you, I even proved you weren't- and as a matter of fact, after DH did introduce it, you gave some subtle pushback and said:

And you lot turn up and we start dying straight off.

SVS died before we got here

and pushed your idea that Wilgy was then the one to do so, fitting your narrative.

In the current form of the discussion, I was. People were moving past it after we lynched wilgy til I heroically stepped forward and brought order and reason back to our midst. Plus DH's argument was different anyway. He was just arguing that a member of Cerberus killed sprit because it happened when we showed up. I have been arguing that sprit was killed by a member of the Evil Evens who was there with us for days. Why would I perform a kill and then immediately start screaming for everyone to look at me as the culprit?

Easy. Someone else already brought it up, it was a valid argument, so you go along with it to look town. And you weren't screaming about it, man. You were squeaking about it. Sometimes putting things out there and saying 'I could be bad, see?' is a great way to give yourself credibility

Why is it that when I do something you don't like I'm "pushing narratives" but when I do something that might be good I'm "squeaking"?

I'm looking at you under a lens, so pushing narratives is just another way of how it fits my thinking. And I'm not comparing you doing "something good". I'm saying you were hardly screaming for people to start looking at you as a culprit. I think I did a pretty good job of pointing out that you were doing it out of necessity because everyone else was looking that way.

... were they?

[Sloonei]

Evens.

Strex is out for blood.

Epi has repeatedly suggested that the Evens are paying insufficient attention to this game.

If this holds true, it would point to Kyle.

maybe, but there's no true way of knowing this. I looked up Kyle's participation during N10- he posted a bevy of times and could have easily been around to submit a kill.

This could be the case, sure. I'm not convinced though.

At the end of the day, the remaining candidates (You, SD, Kyle and Epi) all have 2 lives, so I would very much like to be right here so we don't go through and mislynch everyone until we get to you. Because if kyle's good, then he's a very easy scapegoat here.

To be clear, you think I withheld a kill on Night 10 so that I could implicate wilgy, even though I knew it would be revealed that he was not responsible for the missed kill immediately after, and was more than likely going to be lynched next anyway?

Sure.

Or as I said, other things could have happened and the kill wasn't purposely withheld. Could have been a block or a save or something. But when it didn't go through, in any case, it was an easy next step to continue pushing for wilgy.

I'm insulted that you'd think I'd approach the game this way if I was bad. That is dumb.

Dude, I dunno what you would do as a baddie. Sorry you're insulted. How the kill failed is irrelevant anyway, it's how you framed it.

Just being facetious, not actually insulted.

But I was not trying to frame the failed nightkill in any particular way to implicate wilgy. I didn't need to and I didn't attempt to. I only wanted to make the observation that the host post seemed to indicate an inactive baddie team. It's similar to when I commented that "SVS said this would happen" after we lynched speedchuck. I wasn't making a judgment one way or the other, I was just observing a piece of information that I did not want to slip through the cracks.

In the case of the speedchuck lynch, my point was that it's stll possible that he (or anyone else really) was an Evil Even with a disguised role.

[Sloonei]

Another thing I want to point out for the sake of discussion: there's been talk about how we can't rely on certain roles fitting their normal mold in terms of alignment. Something that would intuitively seem like a civilian role might not be so here, and vice versa. How much validity to do we all give to this speculation right now, on Day 13, with the situation being what it is?

[sprityo]

Another thing I want to point out for the sake of discussion: there's been talk about how we can't rely on certain roles fitting their normal mold in terms of alignment. Something that would intuitively seem like a civilian role might not be so here, and vice versa. How much validity to do we all give to this speculation right now, on Day 13, with the situation being what it is?

A reasonable assumption

[Sloonei]

Another thing I want to point out for the sake of discussion: there's been talk about how we can't rely on certain roles fitting their normal mold in terms of alignment. Something that would intuitively seem like a civilian role might not be so here, and vice versa. How much validity to do we all give to this speculation right now, on Day 13, with the situation being what it is?

A reasonable assumption

Who do you think we should lynch today?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sorry broken quote.

They kill people.

Not killing people means there is one more civ they have to lynch.

You're telling me that a mafia team has never outright held off on a kill in order to incite discussion?

"Never" is a strong word. There may have been some cases here and there, if it results in a mafia being fasely confirmed civ or something like that.

But to "incite discussion"? No. Inciting discussion is unreliable. It's definitely not worth making town get an extra shot at lynching. Mafia needs to kill often or it will lose the game, regardlessly of discussion.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

[Sloonei]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

Good point. Who do you want to vote for today?

[Scotty]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

ok then, so are you under the assumption that N10 was quiet on account of inactivity or something else entirely?

[Scotty]

I promised to look into DDL today. I hope to, knowing he's got a shitton of posts in Pikachu. Quin, I saw you were prodding him. Anything in particular I should look for in my read or any cases you've already made?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

ok then, so are you under the assumption that N10 was quiet on account of inactivity or something else entirely?

Inactivity
roleblock
protect
bulletproof

Pick one

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

Good point. Who do you want to vote for today?

Right now I'm between Bob and you, but I could get convinced to vote for Lorab or Booms I think.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

sprityo too. Him saying he has a bastard role adds a possible win-win situation to lynching him.

[Sloonei]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

Good point. Who do you want to vote for today?

Right now I'm between Bob and you, but I could get convinced to vote for Lorab or Booms I think.

Am I just on here by process of elimination? Why are scotty and kyle stronger town reads?

I don't have strong reads on any of the other three you named.

[Epignosis]

I am not inclined to vote for Sloonei or Scotty at this time.

[Scotty]

lol watch Epi be the Even that killed sprityo and fool us all.

I don't think so tho

[Epignosis]

lol watch Epi be the Even that killed sprityo and fool us all.

I don't think so tho

I probably would have taken a shot at you or Scotty the minute you set foot in our tribe. sprityo's soap box role wasn't exactly terrifying.

[Sloonei]

lol watch Epi be the Even that killed sprityo and fool us all.

I don't think so tho

I entertained this idea for all of half a second.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Based on what I have seen so far, my opinion on this game is that it's imbalanced in town's favor, and the main reason for that is that mafia's number of available night kills is very low.

Not killing people on purpose? That's suicidal. A mafia team that does that will get POE'd into oblivion.

Good point. Who do you want to vote for today?

Right now I'm between Bob and you, but I could get convinced to vote for Lorab or Booms I think.

Am I just on here by process of elimination? Why are scotty and kyle stronger town reads?

I don't have strong reads on any of the other three you named.

Scotty gives me good vibes in general and I feel like he's is one of the main suspects in every single game I've played with him.

I thought Kyle's struggle to be active looks legit. And I wonder why you keep bringing him up and it's mechanically confirmed he won't be lynched today.