Ancient Greece Mafia [CONQUEST]

[Golden]

So you think you know what I meant by that cryptic read? Interesting. Nervous. Defensive. False bravado.

I neither know nor particularly care.

[Golden]

My read on MP is that his purpose was "I haven't played in mafia forever can I make a read now, yes, please, thankyou!" You should always apply the 'golden retriever' test to MP first and foremost.

what's the golden retriever test? you love anything with the word "golden" don't you?

Does MP look like he's eager just to have every possible experience in the game and have a read on all players within the first ten minutes? If yes, town.

There are things with golden in that, y'know, I wouldn't know either way.

My MP town read is sincere. It's about timing. He would be shady as shit later if he was bad. The shady happened early.

Aight I was torn on you until this post.

The first sentence is far too absolute. To make such a basic but strong statement about the meta of a player as fluid (and frankly someone who has barely played in ages) is not what I expect from someone as analytically strong as you.

The bolded is the kicker. Qualifying this particular read as sincere is at worst indie indicative because it informs us that you have the capacity in your current mindset to have INSINCERE reads. How could that be the case? To be force to promote your own read as sincere, without strictly replying to a direct objection but instead having it as a qualifying comment to reinforce the rest of your post. I do not like. Not one bit.

My vote for sloonei was entirely insincere. If you expect everything I do as a townie to be sincere you will be disappointed.

I did not say that you (or anyone) is incapable of insincere activity. The fact that it is a read, and in the context it is in, makes your defense here extremely cynical.

I've made many insincere reads as a townie as well. You want an example? Look at the endgame of Currents Mafia, where I did not once read Jay as bad until I tried to CFD him, because I didn't want him to nightkill me and I was trying to time things right.

I have absolutely zero issue being insincere as a townie, reads, activity, anything.

[MacDougall]

I have been making a tally of my strong pings both positive and negative.

Golden is 2/6. (Positives left and negatives right)
Scotty is 1/0.
MP is 4/4.
Sig is 1/1.
Sloonei is 2/0.
Dunya is 1/2.
Speedchuck is 1/1.
Nova is 0/1.
Kyle is 0/1.
Dom is 1/0.
Choutas is 1/0.

No real pings from anyone else.

[Golden]

I want to ask you a question Mac.

You have read me as very bad on day one many times together. Have you even once ever been right? I'm getting Star Wars mark 2 vibes from you already, and I'm trying to stare you dead in the eyes right now and tell you - you'd be unwise to go down that route.

I don't care about a game that occurred two years ago and I don't care for your discrediting my points by raising it. It's irrelevant. I am reading your posts on their current merit, in context in this game. I have no meta on you or memory of you at all aside from recalling you as a good player.

You're calling me bad for the same basic reasons Choutas is - giving myself away by being sloppy on day one. You say you recall me to be a good player. Just go away and have a think about those two things.

[Golden]

I want to ask you a question Mac.

You have read me as very bad on day one many times together. Have you even once ever been right? I'm getting Star Wars mark 2 vibes from you already, and I'm trying to stare you dead in the eyes right now and tell you - you'd be unwise to go down that route.

I don't care about a game that occurred two years ago and I don't care for your discrediting my points by raising it. It's irrelevant. I am reading your posts on their current merit, in context in this game. I have no meta on you or memory of you at all aside from recalling you as a good player.

BTW for the benefit of everyone else - MacDougall tunnelled me for phases on end in this game and was wrong. I'm absolutely discrediting the points he's raising by reference to it, because the reasons he was wrong in that game are basically the same as the reasons he is wrong here. In that game I happened to be independent and was deliberately setting out to avoid nightkill. In this game I'm civ, so it's not entirely analagous, but you've got to be smart about the difference between weird and bad.

Mac says he has six negative pings on me already. If that leaves him with a mafia read on me, he clearly could not also believe I'm a savvy player. That would be me walking through the mud and then leaving muddy footprints all over the carpet.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

However, they can improve the glory of their victory after that by also neutralizing the opposing civilian faction.

@JaggedJimmyJay clarification question, what is meant here by neutralize?

Defeat.

[MacDougall]

My read on MP is that his purpose was "I haven't played in mafia forever can I make a read now, yes, please, thankyou!" You should always apply the 'golden retriever' test to MP first and foremost.

what's the golden retriever test? you love anything with the word "golden" don't you?

Does MP look like he's eager just to have every possible experience in the game and have a read on all players within the first ten minutes? If yes, town.

There are things with golden in that, y'know, I wouldn't know either way.

My MP town read is sincere. It's about timing. He would be shady as shit later if he was bad. The shady happened early.

Aight I was torn on you until this post.

The first sentence is far too absolute. To make such a basic but strong statement about the meta of a player as fluid (and frankly someone who has barely played in ages) is not what I expect from someone as analytically strong as you.

The bolded is the kicker. Qualifying this particular read as sincere is at worst indie indicative because it informs us that you have the capacity in your current mindset to have INSINCERE reads. How could that be the case? To be force to promote your own read as sincere, without strictly replying to a direct objection but instead having it as a qualifying comment to reinforce the rest of your post. I do not like. Not one bit.

My vote for sloonei was entirely insincere. If you expect everything I do as a townie to be sincere you will be disappointed.

I did not say that you (or anyone) is incapable of insincere activity. The fact that it is a read, and in the context it is in, makes your defense here extremely cynical.

I've made many insincere reads as a townie as well. You want an example? Look at the endgame of Currents Mafia, where I did not once read Jay as bad until I tried to CFD him, because I didn't want him to nightkill me and I was trying to time things right.

I have absolutely zero issue being insincere as a townie, reads, activity, anything.

You are saying that you withheld from expressing your active scum read on him until the lategame thus had been having insincere reads on him in the lead up? Okay thank you.

I don't think it's an apt comparison. Your play history is vast, and the particular reference you've made is tactical in the context of that game and in this particular context the comment was strange to me and I am suspicious of you because of it and other things. It was unprovoked, it was in the early game. It has a lot of context that your example doesn't.

I am rather intrigued by your style of defense. It's unique. Hard to describe. I must dwell.

[Golden]

The fact this situation is different does not change the fact that, because I have insincere in my arsenal, sometimes I feel it is necessary for me to clarify.

[Golden]

Especially with someone who I am new to and who seemed to be having trouble understanding whether my MP read was real or a straw man in the vein of my sloonei vote.

[MacDougall]

I want to ask you a question Mac.

You have read me as very bad on day one many times together. Have you even once ever been right? I'm getting Star Wars mark 2 vibes from you already, and I'm trying to stare you dead in the eyes right now and tell you - you'd be unwise to go down that route.

I don't care about a game that occurred two years ago and I don't care for your discrediting my points by raising it. It's irrelevant. I am reading your posts on their current merit, in context in this game. I have no meta on you or memory of you at all aside from recalling you as a good player.

BTW for the benefit of everyone else - MacDougall tunnelled me for phases on end in this game and was wrong. I'm absolutely discrediting the points he's raising by reference to it, because the reasons he was wrong in that game are basically the same as the reasons he is wrong here. In that game I happened to be independent and was deliberately setting out to avoid nightkill. In this game I'm civ, so it's not entirely analagous, but you've got to be smart about the difference between weird and bad.

Mac says he has six negative pings on me already. If that leaves him with a mafia read on me, he clearly could not also believe I'm a savvy player. That would be me walking through the mud and then leaving muddy footprints all over the carpet.

I have found many good players scum for their day one play Golden. Feeling that you are suspicious here doesn't cancel out that I recall you as a good player.

You are making a series of overly simple and cynical defenses while insisting on discrediting my ability to read you based on one game that occurred years ago.

This is day one in a very long game and I'm just playing the game the way I always do. I'm not going to just stop suspecting you because you try to brute force me with words. This is a game where the bad guys lie and twist their perspectives so relenting on my read under your current pressure would make me a weak player.

I've no doubt that you are going to win town points for the emotional tone in your posts though.

Much water to run under this bridge. Continue your play. I will continue mine. Things will occur. Hopefully truth revealing things.

[Golden]

I am rather intrigued by your style of defense. It's unique. Hard to describe. I must dwell.

Try not to think of it as defence. I'm not saying any of it to save myself but to give you perspective on my posts.

I'm fine being lynched today, but it won't get the town anywhere. However, I could still win the game and notch a victory on the meta-belt.

Or you could leave me around and I could help solve the game.

[Golden]

I've no doubt that you are going to win town points for the emotional tone in your posts though.

Damn, I hope not. That would suck. I'm not feeling emotional at all, and town points aren't really my angle.

[Golden]

PS loving your play Mac. Strong town read. I'm making points, but I'm not asking you to agree with them. Just trust your gut. I happen to like it a lot. I trust few people more than you when it comes to day one reads, and I won't ever protest at being a casualty to them as a result.

Off to bed with me.

[Golden]

You even have me questioning my MP read with that MP/dunya tinfoil tbh

[MacDougall]

The fact this situation is different does not change the fact that, because I have insincere in my arsenal, sometimes I feel it is necessary for me to clarify.

So you are now saying that you made that post in order to inform us that that particular read was in fact, one of your sincere ones?

Ergo, you think that it is generally known that town Golden makes insincere reads throughout a game with a frequency that requires such clarification?

In simple terms, you told us your read was sincere because you thought we were maybe confused that this was one of your tricky Golden plays?

I'm sorry but I am not buying. That is such an unlikely reason to have made that post. I would have just gone with "fuck you Mac" or something sarcastic like "so you're scum reading me for being sincere... goooood one" with a meme of that guy that got angry at the cop for touching his penis when they were arresting him.

That being said I'm want to give you some benefit of mathematical doubt and consider it unlikely that I am going to rally your lynch on day one given your co-ownership of the thread thus far.

[Golden]

And look at that - I offer you a brief moment of sincerity, and you don’t buy it. And you wonder why I’m insincere

No mac, not because it’s ‘generally known’ or in order to make a point clear. Only because when your brain works a certain way sometimes you clarify shit other people wouldn’t otherwise question. I’m telling you how I tick.

[MacDougall]

You even have me questioning my MP read with that MP/dunya tinfoil tbh

Be sure to know, that I am not the terrorising, tunneling, tormentor I once was. If I find reason to rescind my reservations about you I shall submit to them and recant all previous posts promoting my analysis. I do not often accept direct defenses as valid though, as posts are most carefully crafted by those with the desire to do so. Therefore if you have a genuine interesting in altering my perception of your play it is best done by winning some positive ping points on the pingometer (yes I've legitimately got a spreadsheet going that I've called the pingometer).

[Golden]

Perhaps you should adjust your perspective on how many negative pings a mafia makes, because I have every intention of continuing to play this recklessly.

[Golden]

And I actually say that in all seriousness, because I like the method. It has merit. But it’s volume based, and mafia hide quietly.

[MacDougall]

And I actually say that in all seriousness, because I like the method. It has merit. But it’s volume based, and mafia hide quietly.

It isn't something I intend to maintain past day 1 when everyone is still feeling their way into the thread and the scum-flavoured strawberries are at their freshest and ashiest.

I do agree with the point you raise. This is why I would place Nova lower on any list than you. His ping was of much higher quality. It made me scrunch up my face. It smelled like burnt furniture, with a hint of photo albums and kitchen utensils. He also doesn't have positive pings to give me pause on my perspective, like you do.

[Tangrowth]

LOL, I have 16 notifications. That's what I like to see.

[Golden]

I agree on nova. But he’s also a newbie to me.

The difference of opinion I have is that I actually agree with nova. Sigs post was just a big no u and I don’t think it was a great post from sig either. But what’s the value in calling out the no u in question form? To me it’s like the old lawyer tenet ‘never ask a question you don’t know the answer to’. They’re probably amongst the safest questions asked in the thread.

[MacDougall]

One last prod Golden before I start antagonising MP now that he's returned.

I want to ask you a question Mac.

You have read me as very bad on day one many times together. Have you even once ever been right? I'm getting Star Wars mark 2 vibes from you already, and I'm trying to stare you dead in the eyes right now and tell you - you'd be unwise to go down that route.

Have I? Please refresh my memory that this is a consistent pattern? Pointing at a game in which you were an independent as an argument as to why my ability to catch you on day one is poor is quite an interesting defense to say the least.

[Golden]

LOL, I have 16 notifications. That's what I like to see.

I posted too much. You were supposed to stay up all night and tell me to stop.

[Tangrowth]

Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

what are you implying? why did you choose to call sig out on this but not Sloonei for his meta-comments on Choutas/Colin/Kites from RYM a post above yours?

I'm not implying anything; I just thought it was a bit presumptuous for sig to be all like "here's some info about wolbre!" before anyone even asked. It's sig though (I love the guy but he does say things without being prompted, so it's not out of character), and I don't think there's anything meaningful there upon reflection.

So nobody here minus me have played with Wolbre, so nobody has any idea of his meta or even how he acts as a person yet its presumptuous/ping worthy that I lay out what I know about his meta? This doesn't make any sense, like of course I'm going to say things without being promoted especially when its knowledge on someone only I'd have. I've done the same thing with Glorfindel multiple times which has helped us to lynch him. It's more than just weird how you jumped at me about my read it's an early game baddie move.

The underlined portion of MP's post is also out there, it seems like disingenuous backtracking since the fish weren't biting on his read or it could be since it put him in the hot seat.

Either way as of right now MP is my biggest mafia read, so I'll be throwing down a vote there. [VOTE: MP] aubergine

I also agree the Turnip thing was a bit off, but he hasn't played mafia in a year or so correct? I expect he'd be a bit rusty and maybe not ready to just jump into a game with so many new faces. However, we should keep in mind that this is a more self preservation approach which is more common among mafia.

It's not backtracking; show me where I said I suspect you. Once.

[Tangrowth]

I liked that MP kicked off the gameplay by offering a read on Scotty. Nothing had happened yet and MP breathed the first bit of life into the game.

I was less fond of his comment about sig’s post. Sig is a player who always draws suspicion, and MP was quick to put that on him here, directly or indirectly, for a post that I appreciated. There’s nothing wrong with offering perspective on a new and unfamiliar player if you’re priveleged to that information, it’s a nice thing to do.

This is a boring opinion. What else you got?

I love this post.

Do you have any new thoughts to share about sig?

He's probably town.

[MacDougall]

I agree on nova. But he’s also a newbie to me.

The difference of opinion I have is that I actually agree with nova. Sigs post was just a big no u and I don’t think it was a great post from sig either. But what’s the value in calling out the no u in question form? To me it’s like the old lawyer tenet ‘never ask a question you don’t know the answer to’. They’re probably amongst the safest questions asked in the thread.

I found it bad for the following reasons;

It was going after a player who was beginning to be questioned by stronger players (safety in numbers).
It wasn't strange to me, so I don't understand why it bugged Nova.
It was short, so as to decrease the opportunities for Nova to make any mistakes. Short and nervy. False bravado.

[Tangrowth]

I agree with people who say Scotty is looking good, but I could see why Dunya might think he's bad. Right now they're both leaning civ.

Can you expand on this, sig?

[Tangrowth]

Hello, Mac!

[Golden]

Why? I was independently benign with no anti-town intent or conduct and playing the game with a particular angle which in that case was my win con. You were taken with aspects of my behaviour that I think could better be described as weird. You misread my angle. I don’t see the comparison as strange in the least.

I’m not saying I’m independent here - I’m town... what I’m saying is you get pinged by the behaviour of how you think I should act, but there’s history showing I don’t fit in a box.

[MacDougall]

Hello, Mac!

Hello, old friend, nemesis, confidante, ally, associate, rival, opponent, challenger, Gary Oak to my Hiker Joe.

[Golden]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

[Tangrowth]

Also wolbre and I are from the same original site, we've aldo played on mu once together. However, every game we've played together I've been mafia or independent so I never really bothered to learn his meta.

I don't believe he's ever been mafia and is still new to mafia as a whole compared to all of us, he's also deadily as an independent and in my opinion if he's one of those three trading guys he'll side with mafia for the lolz.

But no one asked about wolbre yet.

Good to know nonetheless. Looking forward to playing with you, wolbre!

I don't like this post its weird, light scum ping on MP

So sig is confusing 'weird' for 'bad' I think - understandable when the weird is directed at him, I think.

Sig - I think you were bad with MP in the scrimmage game, right? Did you think he was 'weird' then?

but wasn't it weird? I'm going to channel my inner Jay for a moment here and say that every post we make has a purpose, intentional or not. maybe MP didn't realize it, but even subconsciously, his pondering of sig's motive meant something. let's go back to meta and histories, sig is famously known to be easily mislynched for being shady. I learned that the hard way when I led for his mislynch in a game and everyone beat the crap put of me. I just wasn't crazy about how fast MP dropped sig like a hot potato, kind of retracting his earlier push by concluding sig is being sig.

Like I said, channeling inner Jay, everything has a purpose..

Then what purpose are your posts serving to say the same things over and over about it, without even coming out and saying whether you suspect me?

[MacDougall]

Why? I was independently benign with no anti-town intent or conduct and playing the game with a particular angle which in that case was my win con. You were taken with aspects of my behaviour that I think could better be described as weird. You misread my angle. I don’t see the comparison as strange in the least.

I’m not saying I’m independent here - I’m town... what I’m saying is you get pinged by the behaviour of how you think I should act, but there’s history showing I don’t fit in a box.

Eh I find it hard to believe that you played the game straight up civ all the way through. I'm confident that I picked up on something to give me that read. Anyway, the question was do you have anything else aside from that game.

I guess I should just go ahead and ignore all I know about playing the game and read you upside down then? No, I'll just do my thing thank you.

[Tangrowth]

The one that stands out the most right now is dunya's vote for scotty - I have no history with dunya, but dunya has no history with scotty. It's possible it stands out for 'culture clash' reasons.

I dunno. I prodded Scotty for info on his personality both from Scotty and others, and backed it up with a vote. My vote and questioning his motives and sincerity has created discussion. This is a good thing. We have 48 hours; my vote's moving all over the place before I make a more informed Day 1 decision.

You prodded me for info on Scotty, but it doesn't seem to me you've given it any thoughtful consideration.

[MacDougall]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

[Tangrowth]

Votes are changeable

why marmot?

i'm leaning towards a scotty vote. is he usually sincere? is not voting for people you've never played with general etiquette? i've never played with him before but letting everyone he's never played with avoid his day 1 vote seems like a good way to seem friendly and agreeable.

Okay. A few things.

What kind of question is "is he usually sincere?" What does that even mean? Explain.

For some players, sure. Tends to be more so for LP-based players or old timers, but in my assessment it's not strikingly out of character for Scotty to say something like this if that's what you're wondering. Typically Scotty likes to vote for lower-participants or lurkers on Day 1; he usually has some sort of underlying method to his early votes.

And I can assume that you are taking this a step forward and implying Scotty is being disingenuous? Why single him out for that, instead of someone such as yours truly who has made a few posts that could be considered overly friendly so far?

First MP begins to talk. Then his words become more and more sarcastic, until he dies. When he resurrects he becomes completely pedantic.

But I'm digging his line of undead pedantic sarcastic questioning, so I'll give it a town read.

???

was MP being sarcastic with me? I just thought he was using those tags for color differences. I feel stupid now.

I wasn't. speedchuck was likely making a joke (at least that's how interpreted it), because I used sarcastic orange, dead red, and then pedantic pink (which all have distinct purposes) to separate what I was saying -- only because I was too lazy to click the color thing and pick out colors. I'll do that next time.

[Tangrowth]

@Golden what's ur recent history? did u play/host many games while i wasn't around

kyle is being kyle with his data gathering methods. digging this.

What do you mean by this?

[Tangrowth]

Actually, before I leave, I thought I should place a vote somewhere since they are changeable.

I naturally hate making scum reads this early because I'm almost always wrong at this stage and with this little thread evidence, but at this moment I'm throwing a vote at dunya. GTH she's doing exactly what I would expect her to be doing right now if mafia, and that's trying to act as if she's town but latching onto a low-hanging fruit suspect (Scotty), and from a tone POV I'm not sure I actually believe she believes what she's saying about him.

That said, I'm not sure how much of this perspective could be a result of me failing to understand where her head is at, as well as a bit of a NO U (even though I'm not even clear if she actually suspects me at all). Further, she is actually in here giving us our takes in real time which is commendable and otherwise might earn her some points from me if I was not so confused as to her POV. Consequently, I'm reserving any actual scum read until she can come in and clarify further regarding her previous lines of questioning, but I'll at least give her a vote because if I had to guess any of the active players was scum right now, it'd be her.

Okay, now

this was such a wordy justification all based around my first day 1 vote, and you're right, it is oozing NO U but I kind of expect that from you (I'm guilty of it too don't worry). I could have easily friended you when you asked me "we're just feeling each other out and seeing where our heads are at right dunya" but I didn't want you to feel comfortable with me that fast, and I don't want to feel comfortable with you so fast either. I also don't like how big an issue you're making with my valid questions and vote when you are the king of vote prodding. It's Day 1, we're casting right now and seeing what sticks; don't act like the concept is alien to you when you probably co-founded it.

I'm making a big deal out of them because they're about me, and also because I make a big deal out of everything in mafia, especially on Day 1. So there.

[Tangrowth]

dunya it’s funny you’re questioning my sincerity because I was questioned by SVS about that in GOC and I was very town. I could very well be mafia here (and sorry teammates, if I am) but I still haven’t checked my role card.

I’ll check it later tonight when I get home

It's not personal and I don't think you seem insincere, I just want to know the personality behind the player. I feel like I can form better reads when I have a real grasp on someone's personality in the game. There are lines certain people don't cross, and it helps to make those distinctions if they are available to make. Anyway, I appreciate your explanation behind the reason why you don't do D1 votes on newcomers and feel like it is sincere. Thank you for explaining and glad to be playing with you! I'll probably remove my vote as soon as I can find another fish to hook

OK, this helps answer some of the questions I was having as well; thanks for explaining.

[Golden]

Why? I was independently benign with no anti-town intent or conduct and playing the game with a particular angle which in that case was my win con. You were taken with aspects of my behaviour that I think could better be described as weird. You misread my angle. I don’t see the comparison as strange in the least.

I’m not saying I’m independent here - I’m town... what I’m saying is you get pinged by the behaviour of how you think I should act, but there’s history showing I don’t fit in a box.

Eh I find it hard to believe that you played the game straight up civ all the way through. I'm confident that I picked up on something to give me that read. Anyway, the question was do you have anything else aside from that game.

I guess I should just go ahead and ignore all I know about playing the game and read you upside down then? No, I'll just do my thing thank you.

I’m not saying you didn’t have a reason. It was just incorrect.

You can only put the emphasis on meta that you think is appropriate. Our history is one of you reading me poorly, which is my point - but you can only be swayed by that to the extent you’re comfortable being swayed by it. I personally use my history of reading others as a shining beacon, so for me it’s natural to point these things out, but you can only use them as feels comfortable.

[MacDougall]

Why? I was independently benign with no anti-town intent or conduct and playing the game with a particular angle which in that case was my win con. You were taken with aspects of my behaviour that I think could better be described as weird. You misread my angle. I don’t see the comparison as strange in the least.

I’m not saying I’m independent here - I’m town... what I’m saying is you get pinged by the behaviour of how you think I should act, but there’s history showing I don’t fit in a box.

Eh I find it hard to believe that you played the game straight up civ all the way through. I'm confident that I picked up on something to give me that read. Anyway, the question was do you have anything else aside from that game.

I guess I should just go ahead and ignore all I know about playing the game and read you upside down then? No, I'll just do my thing thank you.

I’m not saying you didn’t have a reason. It was just incorrect.

You can only put the emphasis on meta that you think is appropriate. Our history is one of you reading me poorly, which is my point - but you can only be swayed by that to the extent you’re comfortable being swayed by it. I personally use my history of reading others as a shining beacon, so for me it’s natural to point these things out, but you can only use them as feels comfortable.

You keep saying this but you've really supplied no evidence to back that up. Even though I will reaffirm my position that I find it completely irrelevant as a defense to begin with.

[Tangrowth]

I already stated that I thought his reason struck me as genuine, so that means I believe he's genuine.

I'm not totally sure what you mean by deceitful vs. sincere players; is that not a reflection of alignment?

you're not understanding my question.

I don't know how to talk about this. Ok, let's use speedchuck or Epignosis or JJJ or even you as examples of players I think can play the nice card just to score points. Or do very genuine things in the game unrelated to the game, just to score points. Those players are capable of that sort of thing imo.

Players like Kenway, Glorf...etc, no. They don't go that far. Kenway has never used out of game reasoning in mafia ever. He's very noble like that and knowing his personality makes it easier to form real reads on him imo.

does that make sense?

I'm trying to get a feel for what kind of player Scotty is. Is he a good guy, is he the king of deceit, does he throw all his teammates under the bus as long as he can win, is he more laid back, does he seem like the kind of guy who really will give new players a free pass to feel welcome (rhetorical, as he already explained his reasoning behind it and I believe he is sincere)

You've called me out on plenty of things?

yeah, whatever I found worthy of discussion, I have discussed. Just search for your name in my post history.

And since when is friendly different from agreeable? What part of Scotty's post was agreeable? If anything, it makes him an easy target, and you are proving my point right now. He put himself out there with an unconventional line of thinking, and then BAM you're on his case.

friendly is buddying, appearing agreeable to fly under people's radars on day 1 because no one has something to say against you is a different thing imo although closely related. I don't think what Scotty said makes him an easy target if it falls within his personality to be kind to newcomers. I have never played with Scotty, I have never seen a bad Scotty and I have never seen a good Scotty; naturally, I will question it.

I finally got it now when you just elaborated a bit to Scotty too, sorry.

This all makes sense, thanks.

And re: calling me out, I was just getting confused between prodding and genuinely suspecting, but I have a better idea of what you mean now given your posts as well.

[Golden]

I think talking heads was another Mac and I think there’s a third. But I remember some games well and others not so much.

Bro, I was scum in Talking Heads. Try again. If you're going to try to discredit my points because you feel there is a pattern to me incorrectly scum reading you as town so far you've only pointed at a game I was scum and a game you were indie.

Ha, well I didn’t remember that bit.

Look, if you can name a time you’ve ever read me as bad and been right I’ll hand it to you. I don’t believe it exists. This is the reason I’m saying throw out your tellson me - but again you can only do what you’re comfortable doing.

[MacDougall]

@Golden what's ur recent history? did u play/host many games while i wasn't around

kyle is being kyle with his data gathering methods. digging this.

What do you mean by this?

If I answer for her, would that be bothersome for any scum hunting endeavours you may have here?

[Tangrowth]

MP is shady as shit when town;

is he not shady as shit when he's scum?

Not quite so early as that

And am I finding MP shady as shit? I probably wouldn't go quite that far... but he's jumping out of his skin to make reads that aren't there, so certainly suspectable.

I tend to think people who "jump out of their skins to make reads" on day 1 are more likely to be town. how and why do you find it suspectable?

I agree, but this kind of behavior used to get me auto-lynched on D1 or D2 around here for quite some time years ago.

[Tangrowth]

Scotty would genuinely give new players a pass, but then I think jay or MP would too - like them, scotty could turn around and bite you in the neck. His friendly demeanour is him no matter what. Expect the best one liners and a lot of laughs.

I would agree with that Scotty meta assessment. He tends to give the BOTD early on, especially to new or high posters, but if he finds something to sink his teeth into, he'll go after it.

[Turnip Head]

I heard they're coming out with a new pingometer next year, it's three feet long and two inches thick

[Tangrowth]

so many 1 posters and some no posters still. I can't prod you all, but I am looking at you with my big, magnificent eyes. We have like 36 hours to make a decision so get in here and tell us what you make of the thread so far.

I echo this sentiment. That's 2 sets of eyes.

[Tangrowth]

I feel like such a moron. I've been perched waiting for the game to start and didn't even realize it did

that's ok! Day 0 happened on a Saturday at mindnight EST and Day 1 started at Sunday 6pm so a lot of people haven't really checked in yet. feel free to dig right in and throw some reads around.

what time zone are you in btw? I know we have some Europeans and some Australians playing too.

I'm Central US so it's 4:21 am here
I'm far too tired atm to do anything comprehensive but I voted to make sure it works on my device, will post reads and such in the evening or afternoon

Central U.S. unite!