Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[sig]

Actually.....

Spacedaisy
Lapluie
Turnip Head
Sig

Golden

All others

I thought Daisy was a town read?

linki: When I made my player read list and you weren't on it.

[Kylemii]

Actually.....

Spacedaisy
Lapluie
Turnip Head
Sig

Golden

All others

plz explain lapluie and turnip head

[sig]

Spoiler: show

solid Town:
Nutella (Vanihsed players should be kept on list imo in case they come back)
Daisy
Zeph

Townish:
Mac (He's super wrong, but not bad)
Scotty/Golden (?) Dont quite understand the dynamic going on here, but YOLO am I right?
Quin: Don't think mafia quin would claim what he did.
TH Same game so far as U pick


Disturbing me:
Colin, He's been off, can't really describe this it's mainly gut SOMETHING CIV SIG DOES ALL THE TIME. :cry
Lap
Luna, can't read her at all, but hate how she jumps kinda onto my wagon. Especially after she jumped onto voting me last night?
Choutus: No real posts, can't recall who he voted for day 1 but night 1 he went with golden. low key budding attempt?

Mafia maybe?
INH if it has to be me or him it's him. Plus his big post was super bad ( Yes I said it looked okay earlier I WAS WRONG OKAY! OKAY?)
Kyle for the lolz and he's weirding me out gotta iSO him.

@Epi see you're not here I forgot you.

[ColinIsCool]

Somethign Something, i'm not tinfoiling and Quin has either me or INH as bad and they don't believe I'm omnipotent but if I am and don't get lynched that means I'm trustworthy. It's very confusing and I'm not a fan of it since it's only day 2.

Why would it make you trustworthy?

[MacDougall]

So we're trying to call Sig's bluff or what is this?

Sig has three different and unrelated cases being made against him.

My case is based on his meta.

The majority are pushing for his lynch based on Quin's info.

Epi's case is based on analysing his post content.

I feel so loved tbh, but y'all are wrong.

Explain to me why you are behaving in a passive and relatively timid way under duress here when in other recent town games I have seen you play you are blunt, aggressive and tinfoily.

Here you are actively avoiding tinfoiling which is a hallmark of your town play.

Good question. First I'd say being tinfoiling isn't always a hallmark of my town play, I've had town games where I don't tinfoil. [citation needed]

1. I wouldn't say I'm being passive or timid, I'm just messing around more right now. I think you're putting to much stock into my recent game meta and attributing it 100% to me being town. this is possible, but I mean, meta is meta and I'm not going to ignore it
2. I won't be getting lynched yet soooooo figured I'd have some fun and get to see how people are interacting with me. I don't believe this is a real answer. This is just a real SOUNDING answer.
3. I decided to switch some things around seeing how the last few games i've been killed rather early, but overall my behavior is more attributed to me being able to not get lynched. I don't believe this is a real answer. This is just a real SOUNDING answer.


Don't you find the whole Quin thing a bit odd? This is a mafia talking to a civ sentence. As well as how quickly people who were civ reading me jumped when INH was thrown out as the second? This is a valid point. I'd not be shocked if INH is mafia and his buddies are pushing my wagon.

Okay so my next question is;

Either you believe Quin or you don't.
If you believe Quin and you are a civ then why aren't you currently breaking INH's face open given he has 2 votes on him? INH same question in reverse.
If you don't believe him what is his logic and why aren't you guys trying to break that case.

In actuality I find the reactions from both of you quite strange.

[ColinIsCool]

So we're trying to call Sig's bluff or what is this?

Sig has three different and unrelated cases being made against him.

My case is based on his meta.

The majority are pushing for his lynch based on Quin's info.

Epi's case is based on analysing his post content.

I feel so loved tbh, but y'all are wrong.

Explain to me why you are behaving in a passive and relatively timid way under duress here when in other recent town games I have seen you play you are blunt, aggressive and tinfoily.

Here you are actively avoiding tinfoiling which is a hallmark of your town play.

Good question. First I'd say being tinfoiling isn't always a hallmark of my town play, I've had town games where I don't tinfoil.

1. I wouldn't say I'm being passive or timid, I'm just messing around more right now. I think you're putting to much stock into my recent game meta and attributing it 100% to me being town.
2. I won't be getting lynched yet soooooo figured I'd have some fun and get to see how people are interacting with me.
3. I decided to switch some things around seeing how the last few games i've been killed rather early, but overall my behavior is more attributed to me being able to not get lynched.


Don't you find the whole Quin thing a bit odd? As well as how quickly people who were civ reading me jumped when INH was thrown out as the second? I'd not be shocked if INH is mafia and his buddies are pushing my wagon.

Can you call out anybody specific in this last paragraph? With quotes perhaps?

[MacDougall]

Actually.....

Spacedaisy
Lapluie
Turnip Head
Sig

Golden

All others

I thought Daisy was a town read?

linki: When I made my player read list and you weren't on it.

She was and she still might be again. Her scum read is relevant to how I am reading her interactions with you who I am super confident is bad.

[sig]

Somethign Something, i'm not tinfoiling and Quin has either me or INH as bad and they don't believe I'm omnipotent but if I am and don't get lynched that means I'm trustworthy. It's very confusing and I'm not a fan of it since it's only day 2.

Why would it make you trustworthy?

Voting sig.

If he’s the townie of the two, he’s honest and he won’t die anyway.

If he’s the baddie, chances are time will make him more powerful and it’s a lie.

I see it as a probable win win in terms of testing his honesty, at least.

According to Golden it will. I don't quite get it though, nothings stopping me from being mafia and having a lynch save?

Golden's logic surrounding his push for me honestly makes no sense to me

[MacDougall]

Actually.....

Spacedaisy
Lapluie
Turnip Head
Sig

Golden

All others

plz explain lapluie and turnip head

I don't like the way Turnip Head is dealing with this sigwagon at all.

I don't like the way lapluie interacted with sig who to me is going to flip bad. I am just getting ahead of what I perceive is a likely outcome, particularly since I don't think we're going to be able to see his alignment when he vanishes

[ColinIsCool]

Somethign Something, i'm not tinfoiling and Quin has either me or INH as bad and they don't believe I'm omnipotent but if I am and don't get lynched that means I'm trustworthy. It's very confusing and I'm not a fan of it since it's only day 2.

Why would it make you trustworthy?

Voting sig.

If he’s the townie of the two, he’s honest and he won’t die anyway.

If he’s the baddie, chances are time will make him more powerful and it’s a lie.

I see it as a probable win win in terms of testing his honesty, at least.

According to Golden it will. I don't quite get it though, nothings stopping me from being mafia and having a lynch save?

Golden's logic surrounding his push for me honestly makes no sense to me

[MacDougall]

I don't like the way Turnip Head is dealing with the sigwagon irrespective of whether sig is bad though.

The flip on Kyle is because I LIKE the way Kyle has been interacting with sig.

[ColinIsCool]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to just post that. I don’t think Golden is saying that exactly but reading back I don’t totally get what he’s saying.

Golden, why do you think scum sig would grow in power like a mutant gorilla, or a regular human child?

[sig]

So we're trying to call Sig's bluff or what is this?

Sig has three different and unrelated cases being made against him.

My case is based on his meta.

The majority are pushing for his lynch based on Quin's info.

Epi's case is based on analysing his post content.

I feel so loved tbh, but y'all are wrong.

Explain to me why you are behaving in a passive and relatively timid way under duress here when in other recent town games I have seen you play you are blunt, aggressive and tinfoily.

Here you are actively avoiding tinfoiling which is a hallmark of your town play.

Good question. First I'd say being tinfoiling isn't always a hallmark of my town play, I've had town games where I don't tinfoil. [citation needed]

1. I wouldn't say I'm being passive or timid, I'm just messing around more right now. I think you're putting to much stock into my recent game meta and attributing it 100% to me being town. this is possible, but I mean, meta is meta and I'm not going to ignore it
2. I won't be getting lynched yet soooooo figured I'd have some fun and get to see how people are interacting with me. I don't believe this is a real answer. This is just a real SOUNDING answer.
3. I decided to switch some things around seeing how the last few games i've been killed rather early, but overall my behavior is more attributed to me being able to not get lynched. I don't believe this is a real answer. This is just a real SOUNDING answer.


Don't you find the whole Quin thing a bit odd? This is a mafia talking to a civ sentence. As well as how quickly people who were civ reading me jumped when INH was thrown out as the second? This is a valid point. I'd not be shocked if INH is mafia and his buddies are pushing my wagon.

Okay so my next question is;

Either you believe Quin or you don't.
If you believe Quin and you are a civ then why aren't you currently breaking INH's face open given he has 2 votes on him? INH same question in reverse.
If you don't believe him what is his logic and why aren't you guys trying to break that case.

In actuality I find the reactions from both of you quite strange.

I do believe QUin got a Pm from someone else, However I don't believe that PM is accurate.
I should do that, but haven't gotten around to it I don't like the narrative that's been created that we have to lynch either myself or INH
I've tried to break the case, but there is no case (not counting you/Epi) it's just Quin got a Pm and one of us are bad and I've made weird claims. It appears Golden also thinks I've got a role that makes me stronger the longer I'm alive, not true, which if true why would I ask to be lynched day 3?

I can't speak for INH reaction, but I've been trying to fend this off and be rational, but I still don't even know what Quin claimed. Like we go from it was a PM, to Golden thinking it was a power of Quin and quin saying he 100% believes the information, to maybe not?

Like the main reason I got called out was for not believing Quin's letter was odd/fake and I can't fathom why Golden was so quick to jump on it and trust the PM Quin got.

[Epignosis]

Just because I mentioned you a few times doesn't mean I remember you.

Like I didn't have you on my first big read list which is why i said that.

linki: Yeah it's been a thing from the beginning.

A few?

[sig]

Spoiler: show

So we're trying to call Sig's bluff or what is this?

Sig has three different and unrelated cases being made against him.

My case is based on his meta.

The majority are pushing for his lynch based on Quin's info.

Epi's case is based on analysing his post content.

I feel so loved tbh, but y'all are wrong.

Explain to me why you are behaving in a passive and relatively timid way under duress here when in other recent town games I have seen you play you are blunt, aggressive and tinfoily.

Here you are actively avoiding tinfoiling which is a hallmark of your town play.

Good question. First I'd say being tinfoiling isn't always a hallmark of my town play, I've had town games where I don't tinfoil.

1. I wouldn't say I'm being passive or timid, I'm just messing around more right now. I think you're putting to much stock into my recent game meta and attributing it 100% to me being town.
2. I won't be getting lynched yet soooooo figured I'd have some fun and get to see how people are interacting with me.
3. I decided to switch some things around seeing how the last few games i've been killed rather early, but overall my behavior is more attributed to me being able to not get lynched.


Don't you find the whole Quin thing a bit odd? As well as how quickly people who were civ reading me jumped when INH was thrown out as the second? I'd not be shocked if INH is mafia and his buddies are pushing my wagon.

Can you call out anybody specific in this last paragraph? With quotes perhaps?

Which Part? The civ reading part is simple, Golden was civ reading me before the phase started and even into it, so was Scotty i believe. Plus like I had 7 votes for the election last night and some of those people are saying they'd vote for me today, like Luna. Which is even stranger.

[ColinIsCool]

And for the record I totally thought Quin implied that his role was the info thing, but I’m not sure it changes anything. It would be so so unnecessary for someone to gambit like that on D2 if he’s lying.

[MacDougall]

Take a look at TH's ISO from U-Pick as a civ.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... sf=msgonly

The similar tone of playfulness abides but what differs from his play there to his play here?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/search ... sf=msgonly

In this game the majority of his posts are strangely, questions. To the extent where it is extremely contrasting. Ergo I am deducing that there is something dramatically different about his approach in this game to his approach in that game.

[Epignosis]

So we're trying to call Sig's bluff or what is this?

Sig has three different and unrelated cases being made against him.

My case is based on his meta.

The majority are pushing for his lynch based on Quin's info.

Epi's case is based on analysing his post content.

I feel so loved tbh, but y'all are wrong.

Explain to me why you are behaving in a passive and relatively timid way under duress here when in other recent town games I have seen you play you are blunt, aggressive and tinfoily.

Here you are actively avoiding tinfoiling which is a hallmark of your town play.

Good question. First I'd say being tinfoiling isn't always a hallmark of my town play, I've had town games where I don't tinfoil.

1. I wouldn't say I'm being passive or timid, I'm just messing around more right now. I think you're putting to much stock into my recent game meta and attributing it 100% to me being town.
2. I won't be getting lynched yet soooooo figured I'd have some fun and get to see how people are interacting with me.
3. I decided to switch some things around seeing how the last few games i've been killed rather early, but overall my behavior is more attributed to me being able to not get lynched.


Don't you find the whole Quin thing a bit odd? As well as how quickly people who were civ reading me jumped when INH was thrown out as the second? I'd not be shocked if INH is mafia and his buddies are pushing my wagon.

We'll probably lynch INH after you, so don't worry.

[MacDougall]

So we're trying to call Sig's bluff or what is this?

Sig has three different and unrelated cases being made against him.

My case is based on his meta.

The majority are pushing for his lynch based on Quin's info.

Epi's case is based on analysing his post content.

I feel so loved tbh, but y'all are wrong.

Explain to me why you are behaving in a passive and relatively timid way under duress here when in other recent town games I have seen you play you are blunt, aggressive and tinfoily.

Here you are actively avoiding tinfoiling which is a hallmark of your town play.

Good question. First I'd say being tinfoiling isn't always a hallmark of my town play, I've had town games where I don't tinfoil. [citation needed]

1. I wouldn't say I'm being passive or timid, I'm just messing around more right now. I think you're putting to much stock into my recent game meta and attributing it 100% to me being town. this is possible, but I mean, meta is meta and I'm not going to ignore it
2. I won't be getting lynched yet soooooo figured I'd have some fun and get to see how people are interacting with me. I don't believe this is a real answer. This is just a real SOUNDING answer.
3. I decided to switch some things around seeing how the last few games i've been killed rather early, but overall my behavior is more attributed to me being able to not get lynched. I don't believe this is a real answer. This is just a real SOUNDING answer.


Don't you find the whole Quin thing a bit odd? This is a mafia talking to a civ sentence. As well as how quickly people who were civ reading me jumped when INH was thrown out as the second? This is a valid point. I'd not be shocked if INH is mafia and his buddies are pushing my wagon.

Okay so my next question is;

Either you believe Quin or you don't.
If you believe Quin and you are a civ then why aren't you currently breaking INH's face open given he has 2 votes on him? INH same question in reverse.
If you don't believe him what is his logic and why aren't you guys trying to break that case.

In actuality I find the reactions from both of you quite strange.

I do believe QUin got a Pm from someone else, However I don't believe that PM is accurate.

Why? What do you base this on? Do you know what INH's alignment is somehow?

[Lunalee]

Wait, why are you folks lynching sig? I need to catch up.

[MacDougall]

How does a civilian when posed the scenario that another player has info that declares that they are not the same alignment as another player that they should not know the role of - rationalise to question the validity of that information as their primary response as opposed to becoming extremely confident of the scum alignment of the other player?

Mafia however would undoubtedly seek to do this because otherwise they will be lynched in due course. Their only long term plan for survival here is to place doubt on the validity of the information.

Ergo there is very little doubt that sig is scum at this point.

[Turnip Head]

Okay Mac you've got my attention.

[Epignosis]

Wait, why are you folks lynching sig? I need to catch up.

We all caught up.

[MacDougall]

INH's reaction is not exactly what I would expect but it is a lot more easy to rationalise than sig's has been.

[MacDougall]

Okay Mac you've got my attention.

So why so many questions? Is this normal civilian behaviour for you?

You have asked by my count 25 separate questions in your first 78 posts in the game.

[sig]

How does a civilian when posed the scenario that another player has info that declares that they are not the same alignment as another player that they should not know the role of - rationalise to question the validity of that information as their primary response as opposed to becoming extremely confident of the scum alignment of the other player?

Mafia however would undoubtedly seek to do this because otherwise they will be lynched in due course. Their only long term plan for survival here is to place doubt on the validity of the information.

Ergo there is very little doubt that sig is scum at this point.

It was a random PM sent saying we were unaligned why trust that? I totally bet somewhere in scum chat land a player is giggling that y'all are failing for such an obvious ploy to get people lynched. Also how would a player both get access to that information AND be able to send a PM? Unless Quin is lying about the PM being sent and it's his role. If so then yeah I'd go after INH since ik I'm civ until we know that though I think Quin is a duped civ and mafia sent him a message containing the names of two civs so y'all would witch hunt us.

[sig]

Like I'm honestly shocked that in a role madness closed set up game everyone's just believing some random PM with information.

[Kylemii]

oh my god

[MacDougall]

Like I'm honestly shocked that in a role madness closed set up game everyone's just believing some random PM with information.

Because we have no reason to doubt it at all and it makes sense to have occurred in this game. There is zero reason to doubt it if you are a civilian and/or unaffected by it.

[ColinIsCool]

Like I'm honestly shocked that in a role madness closed set up game everyone's just believing some random PM with information.

I’m less concerned with the PM than I am with your behavior regarding it and what it may mean.

[Lunalee]

Like I'm honestly shocked that in a role madness closed set up game everyone's just believing some random PM with information.

Phantom PMs are better than nothing though, right?

[Turnip Head]

Okay Mac you've got my attention.

So why so many questions? Is this normal civilian behaviour for you?

You have asked by my count 25 separate questions in your first 78 posts in the game.

If you read all my posts than you should know I'm already halfway towards winning this game. I'm looking for reasons to stay involved, so lemme know if I can help you or whatever.

[Kylemii]

"i bet the baddies are laughing in btsc"

these words should be banned

[Kylemii]

[mention]Turnip Head[/mention] are you claiming indie

[Kylemii]

it seems like you're claiming indie

[Kylemii]

th

[MacDougall]

How does a civilian when posed the scenario that another player has info that declares that they are not the same alignment as another player that they should not know the role of - rationalise to question the validity of that information as their primary response as opposed to becoming extremely confident of the scum alignment of the other player?

Mafia however would undoubtedly seek to do this because otherwise they will be lynched in due course. Their only long term plan for survival here is to place doubt on the validity of the information.

Ergo there is very little doubt that sig is scum at this point.

It was a random PM sent saying we were unaligned why trust that? I totally bet somewhere in scum chat land a player is giggling that y'all are failing for such an obvious ploy to get people lynched. Also how would a player both get access to that information AND be able to send a PM? Unless Quin is lying about the PM being sent and it's his role. If so then yeah I'd go after INH since ik I'm civ until we know that though I think Quin is a duped civ and mafia sent him a message containing the names of two civs so y'all would witch hunt us.

In my experience scum don't come up with random gambits that put themselves out there on day 2 just for the benefit of lynching one of two random civilians but I would be happy to receive evidence of such a thing having precedence let alone such frequency so as to be considered an "obvious ploy.

It also doesn't take much creativity to think of a role that another player (not named quin) might have that can explain this event.

"Each night you may send a player a letter with two names in it and they will be informed if those players are aligned together or not."

Work backwards from there to add flavour.

[MacDougall]

At this juncture I don't think there could be more evidence to support any lynch short of a mod screenshot of a role card so we might as well look into other things instead of just tunneling him.

[Turnip Head]

@Turnip Head are you claiming indie

Don't make me get my MIB memory flasher thingy

[sig]

Like I'm honestly shocked that in a role madness closed set up game everyone's just believing some random PM with information.

Because we have no reason to doubt it at all and it makes sense to have occurred in this game. There is zero reason to doubt it if you are a civilian and/or unaffected by it.

We have no reason to not not doubt it either though. Also how does it make sense? The way I see it two different night actions would've been needed to achieve it. Also no a civ/unaffected should doubt it. You're following information from an untraceable source, say INH and I both are civs (which you won't know since no flips and a mafia messenger would take advantage of that) who if you do figure out we're civs would you blame? Not quin since he just got the message but some faceless random player.

Honestly wouldn't be shocked if Mac sent the message, built a fake meta case to distance himself from it and now is using it to try to get me lynched. And he doesn't want to kill me since one he might believe I can't be killed and two it would paint a giant LYNCH ME I"M SCUM sign on him.

Epi has already said he wants to lynch INH next that's two phases wasted and no civs gone and mafia 4x closer to winning.


Someone pushing this PM INH vs SIg is bad and had a hand in sending the message. ALso notice how I was targeted and a semi inactive player? And I had just won the election boosting me and giving me something.

[sig]

At this juncture I don't think there could be more evidence to support any lynch short of a mod screenshot of a role card so we might as well look into other things instead of just tunneling him.

I said that already.

<.<

[Lunalee]

[mention]insertnamehere[/mention] and [mention]sig[/mention] , assuming Quin has been mis-led by this pm, do you think it likely that you could both be aligned?

[sig]

@insertnamehere and @sig , assuming Quin has been mis-led by this pm, do you think it likely that you could both be aligned?

If he was mislead it would be by mafia so we're both not mafia yeah.

He could be indy, but i doubt it.

[Kylemii]

did quin say he recieved a message from a player? i thought he same he recieved a pm like... from Speedchuck, the host of this mafia game, and also our dad

[sig]

"i bet the kyle and the baddies are laughing in btsc"

these words should be banned

EBWOP

linki: I assumed by his wording he meant a message and he never moved to correct me so I'm sticking with that until he says otherwise.

[Golden]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to just post that. I don’t think Golden is saying that exactly but reading back I don’t totally get what he’s saying.

Golden, why do you think scum sig would grow in power like a mutant gorilla, or a regular human child?

I don’t think if he’s bad with a lynch save he tells us. Which means he’s be lying.

I think if he’s bad and lying there’s some other reason for wanting to stay alive longer, which I’d assume is related to his role power.

I actually think macs idea of him being independent is possibly likelier for a role like this.

[Turnip Head]

I'm crawling back into my turnip hole

[sig]

I'll give you until between 11:30-1:30 PM EST to correct your courses before I act on my own.

Y'all need to think about this whole PM thing a bit more critically and stop believing it at face value.

linki: No bad golden bad

[sig]

I'm crawling back into my turnip hole

Can I come with.

[Lunalee]

@Quin

nutella is a civ and either one of mac and golden is bad

IS this still true in your mind?

ye

I'm currently thinking about a sig/Golden team.

Why

Also could you explain your note a bit more? And why we should trust some random message.

Golden was quick to deny my info-dump before. Feels like he's your teammate and was protecting you.

No, I was quick to challenge it.

How many times do I have to say that I NEVER PROTECT TEAMMATES. Literally never because it is the stupidest thing to do.

Go read Economics, where I bussed my entire team early and rode it to the end. That's how you win as scum. Not protecting someone who had just been outed as having a 50% chance of being bad.

If you think you should get to say something and everyone just believe it without asking questions, you've got another think coming.

I would still keep a look out for WIFOM-Golden defending his team mates because he'll think we think he knows better.