Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[DharmaHelper]

@Turnhip Head What happened to our cash? I haven't been remunerated in a while captain.

Let's not talk about money outside the ship plz... These are private matters

MUTINY
MUTINY
MUTINY

[MacDougall]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

...what about INH

Enrique has more detractors and is going to be an easier lynch to make than INH.

[MacDougall]

@Turnip Head why did you put yourself on the poll?

I handpicked my squad Day 1 because I wanted to work with them. I didn't mind being on the poll cuz I'm OG fresh like that

You do realise the objective here is to find scum not play spaceship captain right?

Uhhhhhhhh yeah dude but instead of rip my crew apart from the start I tried to build a bloc of civvies with which to dominate the game

In fairness your ship does appear to have civs on it.

[MacDougall]

Goodnight!

Legacy: Mac and DDL are definitely bad lol

Tell my wife I was delicious.

He is half right.

[Turnip Head]

Nova making me look cheap in front of these other captains right now tbqh, I'm hurt

[DharmaHelper]

Enrique my dude pls.

[MacDougall]

I should have sent DFaraday to the poll instead. Because I'm having second thoughts on this Wilgy lynch.

Ah to be able to change the past.

[Golden]

Yeah Faraday sussed and then voted dead confirmed mafia SQ in a way that doesn't make sense to have been to mop up credit on a bus. It's not like Faraday. I don't think he is scum.

Seriously I think anyone who actually reads his iso will make this turnaround.

Thank you for doing that instead of just telling me I’m defending a teammate.

BTW nova. My victim card keeps me focused on whose bad. You should let me keep it.

All right, lol.

But why didn't you thank me too when I also shared this read of DFaraday?

You hadn’t actively said the other thing as far as I recall, unlike nut and Mac who both voted for him. Mac, specifically, accused me of hard defending a teammate which is just not true (and something I don’t do anyway), so I was pleased he had seen the light.

What do you make of Epi's find?

Interesting and worth consideration. Looking back at DFs iso, the post epi quotes is his first mention of sokoth.

DF is perpetually quiet, a three day gap isn’t unusual. I’d be willing to bet you could compare that to other games if anyone has the time and inclination.

[novaselinenever]

Oh shit there's new items for sale

[MacDougall]

Enrique my dude pls.

Why are you asking one of the scum members of our ship as opposed to the only townie member (me)?

Our ship is literally 50% Mafia. Like our ship has 3 bad guys on it at the start of the game dude.

[Turnip Head]

I don't think I've ever seen DF vote for himself in this kind of circumstance, especially so early in the phase

It's not normal

[Golden]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

No I’m not.

[Turnip Head]

Oh shit there's new items for sale

Can I borrow a hundred bucks lol

[MacDougall]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

No I’m not.

You fucking are if you are a townie. You have one of the most wanted motherfuckers in the entire universe on your ship. Hand him over to the god damned authorities and let justice be served.

[Golden]

What’s the case on DDL now?

[Golden]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

No I’m not.

You fucking are if you are a townie. You have one of the most wanted motherfuckers in the entire universe on your ship. Hand him over to the god damned authorities and let justice be served.

It’s only justice if you’re right. If your wrong it’s just a witches trial.

Make the case and I’ll listen but I won’t be bullied. I think the cases on him so far are poor. He is someone I think has been working hard and looked town to me.

[DharmaHelper]

Enrique my dude pls.

Why are you asking one of the scum members of our ship as opposed to the only townie member (me)?

Our ship is literally 50% Mafia. Like our ship has 3 bad guys on it at the start of the game dude.

Because reasons fam.

[MacDougall]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

No I’m not.

You fucking are if you are a townie. You have one of the most wanted motherfuckers in the entire universe on your ship. Hand him over to the god damned authorities and let justice be served.

It’s only justice if you’re right. If your wrong it’s just a witches trial.

Make the case and I’ll listen but I won’t be bullied. I think the cases on him so far are poor. He is someone I think has been working hard and looked town to me.

Did he vote for or contribute to the only Mafia lynch? Was he the primary driver of the incorrect Wilgy lynch that likely saved a teammate?

Open your eyes. There's a reason he has attracted suspicion since day zero. Mafia DDL is a pingbot and he will admit it. He is bad.

Also I am voting Marmot. If the choice is between Faraday (free agent) and Marmot (one of Golden's) and it's more or less both low content producing blendbots I'm voting marmot so you can't keep putting him on the poll.

[Epignosis]

This is false. You’ve had copious opportunities to engage with my suspicion and all you’ve done is dismiss dismiss dismiss. This is the first post in four days where you’ve given the slightest indication of taking me seriously.

As you know - I shouldn’t have to remind you or anyone of this - in couragei genuinely thought you were bad. It was genuine hunting in which I read your iso several times, engaged with you, specified what I thought you were up to. That I happened to also be bad in that game is an easy but insincere way of doing more dismissal.

TH is suggesting that I didn’t genuinely believe he was bad there, and my behaviour is the same here, therefore I don’t think he’s genuinely bad here.

It has a false starting point.

You seem to be reading it out of context to suggest it implies ‘I don’t genuinely suspect TH here’. This is both false and missing the context.

"In Courage I genuinely thought you were bad." -Golden

Golden was mafia.

I don't see how you were genuine. You were decidedly not genuine because you were bad.

I believed he was also bad.

When there are two bad factions, do you have no genuine baddie reads hunting for the other side?

There was one bad faction and an Egyptian independent.

An independent with role secrets who was clearly messing with everyone and couldn’t be nightkilled. That’s right. If it was an outright serial killer you wouldn’t argue against it being bad.

I’m done with this convo and if you insist on pushing it I’ll sub out. I know this is a game of lying but you push your accusations against my character too far. I explained that was genuine AFTER THE GAME and before this one existed. There is no need for me to lie at that time. It is not a lie, it is what happened.

Your character isn't in question. You are free to lie and cheat as much as you please. That's fair game.

Your agenda here is in question. And that's fair game too. If you want to sub out, sub out. I'm not going to be bullied into not talking about what I wish to discuss because you threaten me with that.

[MacDougall]

[mention]Turnip Head[/mention] and [mention]DharmaHelper[/mention] vote for Marmot. It's the right play in the game of ships captaincy you appear to care more about than actually playing.

[DharmaHelper]

I'm here to lynch mafia my boi

[Glorfindel]

I’m never closed minded, no matter how I may appear. I’m just also not pushed over by a feather.

No, Cap - you’re not but that is my very point. I feel like Epi was and I believe that is out of character for him. If this had been a different game and someone else had posted what he did, do you believe that he would’ve been so convinced as to the veracity of that case to blindly accept it and jump on board? Hell, not even I fell for that one - I think he’s far, far smarter than that.

[Turnip Head]

@Turnip Head and @DharmaHelper vote for Marmot. It's the right play in the game of ships captaincy you appear to care more about than actually playing.

[Epignosis]

If DFaraday is a civilian who did not throw Sokoth under the bus, what is the best explanation for his Saturday post?

The best I can come up with is "DFaraday should buy some scratch offs."

[Glorfindel]

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

No?

I’m not saying that you are wrong in the application of your logic and the conclusions that you’ve drawn but I fear that you are failing to keep an entirely open mind to what is happening in this game, my friend.

I don’t understand what you’re seeing. Can you be more clear?

Who was it that lit the fire under that appalling Dr Wilgy wagon? Yes, our friend Epi with that excerpt of Dan’s post allegedly implicating Wilgy. I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so. Yeah, it’s been an age since I’ve played here but my recollections of having played with Epi are still strong. The Epi I remember would never have accepted so blindly such a disingenuous case brought up by anyone else so why was he satisfied to do so himself on this occasion? Where is that laser-like analysis of which he is capable? Where in fact IS he? He’s barely posted. Why is no one talking about him? He’s one of the best and most experienced players on this site. I don’t know about you but I smell a very big, stinky rat...

My case in point in respect of the content of Epi’s posts this game.

[Enrique]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

I've hardly had scum suspicion aside from DDL, who I agree fully and have been saying from the start, is bad. I got the odd bullshit vote and almost got CFD'd. I was also offline the whole time Sokoth was a thing so yeah you're talking out of your ass again about a game you haven't read.

You could just as easily vote TH here and stop him from doing dumb captain shit but you're playing his game instead.

[MacDougall]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

I've hardly had scum suspicion aside from DDL, who I agree fully and have been saying from the start, is bad. I got the odd bullshit vote and almost got CFD'd. I was also offline the whole time Sokoth was a thing so yeah you're talking out of your ass again about a game you haven't read.

You could just as easily vote TH here and stop him from doing dumb captain shit but you're playing his game instead.

I actually would if I thought he was Mafia but I do not.

[Enrique]

DH I gotchu

[MacDougall]

Enrique and DDL have had scum suspicion on them since day 1. The fact that they are still alive is a fucking joke really. DharmaHelper put Enrique on the god damned poll tomorrow. Whoever the hell is harbouring DDL you are obliged to do the same.

I've hardly had scum suspicion aside from DDL, who I agree fully and have been saying from the start, is bad. I got the odd bullshit vote and almost got CFD'd. I was also offline the whole time Sokoth was a thing so yeah you're talking out of your ass again about a game you haven't read.

You could just as easily vote TH here and stop him from doing dumb captain shit but you're playing his game instead.

I actually would if I thought he was Mafia but I do not.

Also I've read more of the game than you think so if that's your defence you can go to heck.

[MacDougall]

If DFaraday is a civilian who did not throw Sokoth under the bus, what is the best explanation for his Saturday post?

The best I can come up with is "DFaraday should buy some scratch offs."

Got pinged by the post while skimming but didn't make a post. When he was able to make a post he saw someone comment on the same thing and remembered that it too pinged him?

[DharmaHelper]

DH I gotchu

See there's my saucy boy.

[Epignosis]

If DFaraday is a civilian who did not throw Sokoth under the bus, what is the best explanation for his Saturday post?

The best I can come up with is "DFaraday should buy some scratch offs."

Got pinged by the post while skimming but didn't make a post. When he was able to make a post he saw someone comment on the same thing and remembered that it too pinged him?

That's a real possibility. How likely on a scale of 0% to 100% do you think that was the case?

[MacDougall]

If DFaraday is a civilian who did not throw Sokoth under the bus, what is the best explanation for his Saturday post?

The best I can come up with is "DFaraday should buy some scratch offs."

Got pinged by the post while skimming but didn't make a post. When he was able to make a post he saw someone comment on the same thing and remembered that it too pinged him?

That's a real possibility. How likely on a scale of 0% to 100% do you think that was the case?

Well given there are probably a million variations of ways it could have occurred I'd put it in the 1-5% range without giving much thought to your answer. I would say that he used it as an outlet to get a bussing vote onto the wagon maybe in the 5-10% range?

[Glorfindel]

Golden should put himself on the poll tomorrow

I disagree. He is the Captain of the Bonnie Mae and his leadership of our crew so far has been excellent. He is consultative, collaborative and calm in his approach to our crew. Whilst not faultless, his judgement has been sound. There is no way his putting himself on this poll would be supported by the majority of our crew.

[Enrique]

[mention][/mention]

Golden should put himself on the poll tomorrow

I disagree. He is the Captain of the Bonnie Mae and his leadership of our crew so far has been excellent. He is consultative, collaborative and calm in his approach to our crew. Whilst not faultless, his judgement has been sound. There is no way his putting himself on this poll would be supported by the majority of our crew.

Glorfindel, say we find out two of your crewmates are bad. Who are they?

[Turnip Head]

Golden should put himself on the poll tomorrow

I disagree. He is the Captain of the Bonnie Mae and his leadership of our crew so far has been excellent. He is consultative, collaborative and calm in his approach to our crew. Whilst not faultless, his judgement has been sound. There is no way his putting himself on this poll would be supported by the majority of our crew.

I wish I saw your captain the same way you do glorfindel. In the meantime I appreciate your read on epi even though I'm inclined to disagree with you there as well. I do think ship dynamics are playing a part in everyone's reads tho

[Epignosis]

If DFaraday is a civilian who did not throw Sokoth under the bus, what is the best explanation for his Saturday post?

The best I can come up with is "DFaraday should buy some scratch offs."

Got pinged by the post while skimming but didn't make a post. When he was able to make a post he saw someone comment on the same thing and remembered that it too pinged him?

That's a real possibility. How likely on a scale of 0% to 100% do you think that was the case?

Well given there are probably a million variations of ways it could have occurred I'd put it in the 1-5% range without giving much thought to your answer. I would say that he used it as an outlet to get a bussing vote onto the wagon maybe in the 5-10% range?

Here's my thing: There were 606 posts between his, and the post he quoted was on the back half of that.

How about Sokoth dude?

I just glanced over his ISO, and I still have a bad vibe about him. His contributive posts have been so far riddled with some good old fence-sitting. He went on about not liking the talks about Glorf, but ended up saying that he's someone we should look after.

Same thing about the Golden/I thing. Liking both posts, and feigning interest with a generic response to what could have been my motivation to not break the tie between Glorf/Golden.

So this is your "this is why we should lynch Sokoth" post? What else you got? This is pretty weak if you ask me. Just because I didn't come out with guns blazing and couldn't really find someone to latch onto to Wagon train into the stars you find it perfectly okay to just write me off. Nice. Hang on, let me go get my guns. I'll be right back with my own facts.

I'd like to see if you have something more substantial to back up and get a train going on me? Because right now this feels pretty weak to me.

There was a lot of talk about Day Zero Captain Vote manipulation – You along with a couple of others managed to play the “Tie Breaker” Game throughout the entire beginning of this. “I’m going to break the tie” came up more than once. When asked why you didn’t break the tie between Golden & Glorf you left it to a “Higher Power”. Really? Then you tried to play it off by removing your votes and distributing them to random other people, and you gave a weak sauce explanation. Then low and behind, blam you throw your votes around again. Manipulation much?
The flip flop on Golden was real in there. You drew him in because you “Thought his entrance was great, and then because of his antics later decided naaa he’s bad. So you go about railroading him for Captain, saying he’s “bad” essentially and then turn around and drop the hammer on someone else, and at the last minute. So happens to be me, because I didn’t provide you with any substantial substance to the conversation.
Then the pain train continues on Golden. You and him back and forth.
So now here we are coming into the next day and you just unload your vote without even a thought. On me? Throw some substance down, lets see what you got. Because from where I’m sitting, your entirely aggressive, going after people with half assed Suspicions and your arguments barely hold water. Seems like your trying to drive something.
Also looks bad from the perspective that we already lost a crewman, and now your hunting for more on my Captains Ship to weaken his position. We have a solid crew, so I can understand you coming after us specifically. But please. Bring something more substantial.

SO believe me when I say that I will be watching you. And if I continue to see you go on this course your name will most certainly be at the top of my list for a vote. Your lucky your not on it now as I would most certainly campaign to end you.

Don't take my lack of activity or silence for what you think it might be. I'm watching, learning, and I will respond once I have a case. I didn't have one that was solid before. You've made one for me, and I will admit its not 100%, but you just keep digging. You'll end up in that hole deeper than you are now.

This was Sokoth's "big post" nova was referencing. That came at Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:28 am (EST).

That was over twelve hours before DF's Saturday post.

At what point did DFaraday read Sokoth's "big post" and at what point did he read Colin's comment on it, and why didn't he comment on the 604 other posts that had been made in that span? What made Colin's post (made over four hours before DF's) stand out?

[Epignosis]

Golden should put himself on the poll tomorrow

I disagree. He is the Captain of the Bonnie Mae and his leadership of our crew so far has been excellent. He is consultative, collaborative and calm in his approach to our crew. Whilst not faultless, his judgement has been sound. There is no way his putting himself on this poll would be supported by the majority of our crew.

Why aren't you voting for people who are the poll?

[Glorfindel]

Who was it that lit the fire under that appalling Dr Wilgy wagon? Yes, our friend Epi with that excerpt of Dan’s post allegedly implicating Wilgy. I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so.

Here is where I discredit Glorfindel, just for fun.

I’ll confess, I’m a little conflicted about the poll as it is at present. The TH wagon itself looks kinda OK but I can’t quite fathom why friend Turnip Head is a wagon in the first place. If I was TH (Captain of a ship) and was Mafia and I knew that we’d have a potentially limited poll today (effectively 6 but it could’ve been less) I think it’d be a pretty ballsy (read idiotic) move to put myself on the poll as my team’s representative. Mind, I’m perplexed why he would do that if he were Town...?

Wilgy? OK, I’ll agree that mention of Dan’s is not a good look but on its own, I’m not sure how conclusive it is. I find the fact that Epi dropped that vote on Wilgy as he did and then promptly disappeared back into the inky void to be a trifle disconcerting.

Selecting someone from this list today is something of a conundrum...

I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so.

You say you didn't "buy" what I said about DrWilgy, but the above is the only comment you made about him in relation to that post. You said you agreed that the Sokoth mention was not good for him, but other than that, you said nothing about not "buying it." Might be the closest you've ever come to having told a lie, Glorfy. I'd love to have you on the dark side.

As far as I can tell, Glorfindel, you haven't voted for a single person to be lynched. You didn't vote Day 2. You didn't vote Day 3. I don't think you voted Day 1. Why not?

I'm going to be honest with you now: If you want to have a go at me for my vote, you need to be voting too. Calling Golden honorable means nothing to me. Saying you are a civilian means nothing to me. Helping a crew with a mission means nothing to me. None of it means anything to me if you don't vote to kill somebody.

So don't proclaim being a civilian. That doesn't help. Voting helps. Every Day. Even if it's for me.

Thank you Epi. You’ve proved my point. Even I wasn’t convinced by Dan’s reference to Wiley. “Not a good look” is nowhere near the same as the approach you took - being so convinced that Dan’s remark was evidence of Wilgy’s alignment that you chose to throw your vote on Wilgy then and there (if my memory serves me correctly. I called your approach disengenious and you trying to defend that here just makes it look more so. And no, I’m not going to vote to lynch someone I don’t think is bad - not even if you’re on their wagon. I will however happily vote for someone I do think is sus...

[Epignosis]

Who was it that lit the fire under that appalling Dr Wilgy wagon? Yes, our friend Epi with that excerpt of Dan’s post allegedly implicating Wilgy. I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so.

Here is where I discredit Glorfindel, just for fun.

I’ll confess, I’m a little conflicted about the poll as it is at present. The TH wagon itself looks kinda OK but I can’t quite fathom why friend Turnip Head is a wagon in the first place. If I was TH (Captain of a ship) and was Mafia and I knew that we’d have a potentially limited poll today (effectively 6 but it could’ve been less) I think it’d be a pretty ballsy (read idiotic) move to put myself on the poll as my team’s representative. Mind, I’m perplexed why he would do that if he were Town...?

Wilgy? OK, I’ll agree that mention of Dan’s is not a good look but on its own, I’m not sure how conclusive it is. I find the fact that Epi dropped that vote on Wilgy as he did and then promptly disappeared back into the inky void to be a trifle disconcerting.

Selecting someone from this list today is something of a conundrum...

I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so.

You say you didn't "buy" what I said about DrWilgy, but the above is the only comment you made about him in relation to that post. You said you agreed that the Sokoth mention was not good for him, but other than that, you said nothing about not "buying it." Might be the closest you've ever come to having told a lie, Glorfy. I'd love to have you on the dark side.

As far as I can tell, Glorfindel, you haven't voted for a single person to be lynched. You didn't vote Day 2. You didn't vote Day 3. I don't think you voted Day 1. Why not?

I'm going to be honest with you now: If you want to have a go at me for my vote, you need to be voting too. Calling Golden honorable means nothing to me. Saying you are a civilian means nothing to me. Helping a crew with a mission means nothing to me. None of it means anything to me if you don't vote to kill somebody.

So don't proclaim being a civilian. That doesn't help. Voting helps. Every Day. Even if it's for me.

Thank you Epi. You’ve proved my point. Even I wasn’t convinced by Dan’s reference to Wiley. “Not a good look” is nowhere near the same as the approach you took - being so convinced that Dan’s remark was evidence of Wilgy’s alignment that you chose to throw your vote on Wilgy then and there (if my memory serves me correctly. I called your approach disengenious and you trying to defend that here just makes it look more so. And no, I’m not going to vote to lynch someone I don’t think is bad - not even if you’re on their wagon. I will however happily vote for someone I do think is sus...

You called me "disconcerting" on Day 3, not "disingenuous."

Lie #2 Glorfindel.

I had more to say about Wilgy than what Sokoth said, but you're not here to vote out mafia anyway, so...

[MacDougall]

I agree it's a bad look for DDL. His votes are completely arbitrary, you can't expect a lot more from a Day 0 poll, but he still awkwardly emphasizes the completely normal ways in which nutella and Epi voted.

Early suspicions of DDL.

I feel like a lot of the ongoing discussions are dead-ends. GTH I don't think DDL is bad, he's just being really clumsy lol. Mac is laying pretty low, but we did just start and I don't think his activity so far is indicative of alignment. Glorfindel is all over sig for what looks like nothing to me but... I remember Glorf's first game, and I believe the talk about his meta. sig has been fine.

Got a funny feeling about speedchuck but he hasn't been around a lot and I don't want to contribute to a possible pile-up. Leaving a placeholder vote on Colin for now for no good reason.

Next mention of DDL is a backtrack on GTH with an excuse and a lol. Surrounds the commentary with a bunch of player salad reads so it doesn't stand out so much as an excuse to comment on DDL.

I'm ok with a lynch on Mac rn but it also feels like bait. Mac is making it too easy.

Enrique is actually trying not to be lynched and I don't think he's actually succeeding.

didn't see anybody mention me until my catch up rn but ok

Oddly passive response to an oddly phrased accusation from someone who is usually firey in retaliation.

DH, why are DDL and Nut suspects for voicing the same suspicion I did in a similar manner, but I’m not? I can see a scum piggy backing on any potential wagon so long as they don’t have to stick their neck out too far but we three pretty much seem to be saying the same thing, so why do I get a pass?

Because I haven't had the time to read you specifically yet.

In hunkering down and reading Colin I've noted that apart from "Enrique bad" he tends to waffle on who he suspects and trusts. A weak Enrique vote and a sporadic nature don't ring civ to me, necessarily but I do suspect the people following such a dumb case more than the guy who made it.

If the case I have on Enrique is dumb, how dumb is Enrique’s case on me?

I don't have a case, Colin, I specified it was a placeholder vote and you had a violent reaction. Your case is bad because it turns out people laying their cards on the table and giving their takes on the ongoing conflicts is good actually.

I absolved DDL as being clumsy but I think he's using that as a crotch at this point. This is the exact wagon he was warning against, no way you make that vote and that post in such close proximity and don't feel like you have anything to reconsider.

Suspicions on DDL have now returned after DDL poked at him. Believes that DDL used the excuse Enrique made as own self defense.

Quoting this so it’s not buried.

Not that I’m No Uing, but I am really amazed at how easily you’re willing to trust him after all that cool stuff happened in FWWM.

This is an appeal to emotion with nothing to say about this game.

DH, why are DDL and Nut suspects for voicing the same suspicion I did in a similar manner, but I’m not? I can see a scum piggy backing on any potential wagon so long as they don’t have to stick their neck out too far but we three pretty much seem to be saying the same thing, so why do I get a pass?

Because I haven't had the time to read you specifically yet.

In hunkering down and reading Colin I've noted that apart from "Enrique bad" he tends to waffle on who he suspects and trusts. A weak Enrique vote and a sporadic nature don't ring civ to me, necessarily but I do suspect the people following such a dumb case more than the guy who made it.

If the case I have on Enrique is dumb, how dumb is Enrique’s case on me?

I don't have a case, Colin, I specified it was a placeholder vote and you had a violent reaction. Your case is bad because it turns out people laying their cards on the table and giving their takes on the ongoing conflicts is good actually.

I absolved DDL as being clumsy but I think he's using that as a crotch at this point. This is the exact wagon he was warning against, no way you make that vote and that post in such close proximity and don't feel like you have anything to reconsider.

I have zero idea what you’re trying to say in the first graf re: “cards on the table” or in the second with DDL. I don’t care what DDL does so long as he doesn’t ping me and he looks mostly legit so far — defensive, but he was forced there long ago.

The post you made was just ... bad. DDL and nutella and speed’s characterizations of it (I think speed?) said everything I didn’t substantiate, which is my bad, but no point hammering it in.

But I will grant you that it is one post, on top of a vibe, but vibes have been wrong. My vote is pretty placeholder too. If not you, where should I be looking?

I stand by my post. Taking a stance on thread discussions is not extra or fluff, and it wasn't "wishy-washy" the way it's presented. I have concrete opinions and takes and I haven't been trying to be ambiguous about them. This isn't new to me either, this is how I play most games.

DDL hasn't had a stellar game (which I'd hardly say he was "forced" into) but you could still say he was just being clumsy on wording or dragged down by a couple of bad posts. He just keeps going, though, as if we're supposed to understand he's off-bounds now. I don't like it and I may just end up voting for him. I don't like speedchuck in this game either and I don't like this whole ass misrepresentation of how I'm participating.

Hedgey commentary on DDL. Threatens to vote for him but gives him a civvie out. Again mixes commentary with read on another player (if Enrique is scum speedchuck is town here).

The idea that I've been trying to deflect a lynch is also pure fiction conceived while I was away ftr

I actually used the wrong wording in there.

You weren't trying to deflect a lynch, because the lynch didn't exist.

You were trying to look like town. So I guess "avoid" is a better word.

And that is not the basis for my case on you, it's just something I compared you with Mac for.

Weird how when you use the wrong wording it advances your cases in totally predictable ways.

More shade on DDL but still hasn't put the hammer down.

The idea that I've been trying to deflect a lynch is also pure fiction conceived while I was away ftr

I actually used the wrong wording in there.

You weren't trying to deflect a lynch, because the lynch didn't exist.

You were trying to look like town. So I guess "avoid" is a better word.

And that is not the basis for my case on you, it's just something I compared you with Mac for.

Weird how when you use the wrong wording it advances your cases in totally predictable ways.

<insert picture of villain petting his cat>

DDL bringing the wifom.

I'm only two pages behind now and I have a text file full of notes. I'm also extremely sleepy and have class very early tomorrow. See you all later. :slp:

ps ddl is bad and also this poll sucks

Next mention of DDL, Enrique has him as bad but phrases it in a way that is not going to attract any support.

Spoiler: show

I don't respect any of these "Enrique's posts are empty" takes because of how wrong they are. Sorry, I don't have a lot of posts but I don't regret their content (and no I'm not counting the last few days where I literally was not playing).

Glorfindel and Epignosis are my main town reads. Glorf calling SQ's post reasoned etc. was hilarious and weird but I believe his meta stuff.

For a while there I thought Luna and DDL read a lot like teammates, first being stupidly agreeable with each other (he refuses to get near her case, follows the godawful Mac wagon she started, she dismisses firing him when he's acting so fucking terrible) and then their disagreement and DDL's firing feeling super forced, like a really clumsy sort of distancing. There's an inh post that perfectly sums up this weird dynamic.

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I thought you didn't like Mac's lynch?

My dudes, DDL is a bad.

Well, if nothing else, I now have three major suspects: DDL, Luna, and Nova.

INH, what do you think of DDL voting for me now? Since you suspected us both.

I'm considering if both of you are teammates, based on how DDL said he suspected you in the thread on Day 1, but then claimed he couldn't vote for you, but now you both seem to be happy to try and lynch each other. Mayhaps a mutual decision to bus was made in the baddie chatroom during Night 1?

I'm guessing that this question is an attempt to make me back down on one of you because as you seem to be implying "you both can't be bad." To which I call poppycock.

Now, based on yesterday's lynch Luna has gone down considerably in my list of suspicions. You figure the mafia would have at least some discursive control and the attempted Luna counter-lynch would make no sense without a stupid amount of WIFOM. But I'd also like to point out (and this should be obvious) how inconsistent and contradictory DDL has been through the whole game. One of his first stated concerns is avoiding "low resistance lynches", but still ends up on the Mac wagon. His opinions form out of complete thin air and that first day was a disaster. I mean, Jesus Christ, he made all of these posts practically in succession:

Spoiler: show

Would Golden and Nova state the case against each other in like, ten words or less? I drown when I look at that argument chain.

My current take:
Golden - "Nova's captain votes are weird and probably bad"
Nova - "Nu uh they normal and you are bad for your fake accusation"
Golden - "Man, what an overreaction. Calling it scum"
Nova - "Town Golden wouldn't have a case this bad"

Is that anywhere close?

Yeah pretty much. It boils down to how much you think nova's vote is a teammate thing or not. The rest is tone reading, instinct, that kind of stuff. Right now I don't feel strongly about nova, but I do think Golden is town.

I hate this Mac lynch by instinct. It feels too easy. We are lynching him because he didn't come to play, not because he's being trying to look like civ and failing.

It feels too easy.

I'll jump on it if this dumb Golden lynch doesn't lose traction, though.

Ok let's go

YOLO

[VOTE: Nova] aubergine

Eh I dunno man not feeling it

[VOTE: Enrique] aubergine

Ugh now I want to lynch Luna but she invited me I don't wanna mutiny my captain.

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I sense very little logical continuity to his posts. Each vote is just whatever looks convenient at the time. This DH post calling him out is great:

Spoiler: show

Anyway I'm gonna try to put as much of my thoughts on DDL on paper here as possible.

Part 1:

Spoiler: show

Enrique giving me bad vibes.

Man it looks like I went with the popular choices, but I swear I had those people in mind before the thread opened. Guess the rest of you had similar ideas.

This post also gives me bad vibes, seems overly worried with how others will view your votes.

DDL's earliest suspects are "vibes" on Enrique and Nutella. This is *really* early so I don't necessarily care that they're just vibes but as I went back through his posts his vibes on Nutella vanish pretty much and doesn't expound on his Enrique suspicion beyond "He sounds salad-y" or whatever. Anyway, speaking of being overly concerned how people view you:

So let's say something to disarm the asshats who are already trying to dig teammate relations from the people voting me, while also adding a healthy dose of WIFOM.

The two people voting for me are both from Naruto Forums, and both created accounts in this site because I invited them to.

So right now the default reason for them to be voting for me is obvious: familiarity.

^^ Here ^^ DDL decides to nip in the bud some of his Captaincy votes, or rather votes for Captain that he's received from other people. Nipping some suspicion in the bud here, but like...who actually cared?

Last game I played with DH (champions) he was breathing on everyone's neck over petty reasons. This time he's just chilling about crews.

In that game he was mostly arguing with Epi, who, in this game, is content with dropping a case on me and then spending the rest of the day posting gifs and defending against accusations.

Joining him is Mac, who is also just chilling.

What is up with all the traditional civ leaders playing second fiddle? I feel like Golden is working overtime to do your part here.

And yes, I'm treating some players different from each other, because there are specific people who are usually noisy and bossy and just aren't being like that right now.

At least here he's voicing some concern with me and Mac, though calling it suspicion would be a stretch and a half.

-> I think DDL looks bad but I'm not sure
-> I also think he's acting suspicious

This is pathetic.

I haven't done my intended big post yet as far as "everyone I suspect and why" but in my catching up just on the posts I've missed since last night this one caught my eye. You trippin boss.

This is a slow day, with people who normally post a lot being happy not to say much, with a bunch of them accusing me softly but not actually going through with it.

It sounds like a civ lynch in the making. Not necessarily of me, but of some low resiatance wagon that baddies manage to latch on.

I want to prevent that shit. I want drama. I want scumhunting. I want arguing. This day 1 is too cool for my tastes.

^^Here^^ DDL says he wants to "prevent a low resistance wagon that baddies could manage to latch on to." Which is one of several posts made hilarious by the fact that he latched onto a low resistance lynch that lynched the civ leader Mac. Coolest of beans.

I'm ok with a lynch on Mac rn but it also feels like bait. Mac is making it too easy.

Enrique is actually trying not to be lynched and I don't think he's actually succeeding.

^^Here^^ We see the classic "I'm cool with lynching this guy but if it turns out he actually is lynched and he flips civ then woo-boy did I have my reservations, golly. Swears it."

Still coming down off a cold and its late and I think that's a good spot to end Part 1 and I'm watching other shit right now so I'll pick up w/ Part 2 later tonight

On this last quote, the sentence:

Enrique is actually trying not to be lynched and I don't think he's actually succeeding.

is a flat-out lie, as I pointed out earlier.

The idea that I've been trying to deflect a lynch is also pure fiction conceived while I was away ftr

I actually used the wrong wording in there.

You weren't trying to deflect a lynch, because the lynch didn't exist.

You were trying to look like town. So I guess "avoid" is a better word.

And that is not the basis for my case on you, it's just something I compared you with Mac for.

It is conveniently lousy wording that just so happens to further an artificial wagon against me and make it seem real. He hides behind being clumsy to justify bad posting, and he really pushes this too when he starts quoting "old DDL" and talking about how embarrassing this was, like we're just supposed to discount him? To repeat myself and further clarify on the quoted post, nobody was really talking about me while I was around, I had no concept of anyone reading me as anything less than a civ besides a Day 0 post by DDL (incidentally) where I gave him "bad vibes". He never dropped me after that and has been consistently fabricating reasons to pursue me pretty much on his own (I know it's picked up a little more since I've been away, it's still stupid).

But besides DDL, who is very blatantly bad and there's no excuse for not lynching him before Day 5...

The Mac lynch was also seriously so fucking stupid, if we'd like to review it. I mean, I don't think anyone ever seriously thought that because he was inactive he had to be bad. I can't read stuff like this and see anything besides opportunism:

[VOTE: macdougall] aubergine not entirely caught up but doing stuff w friends atm. Hanging back from golden vs nova, I think golden is probably civ but I don't think I see what he sees in nova (although this is by far the most active I've ever seen nova which I may count as a point against him). Mac's iso is far too dull and it might be burnout but it might be that he's bad (or both).

Reading Mac's ISO should have told you exactly one thing, that he wasn't really involved in the game. That's it. That's not a sign of anything besides itself.

Some other thoughts:

So does anyone on Soneji’s crew think there may have been a rat among you last night? Did he say anything that would have made him a target? Because it seems like a strange choice to me, unless the idea was to really give us nothing to work with.

Soneji was very clearly not active, this reads like full-on bullshit. Mafia killing inactive players is not a new concept. Colin has some pretty good opinions on this game but either takes the easy way out or focuses on boring details too often. Like I can sort of see his thought process behind some reads, but then he ends up doing something completely different. He was also really uncool about me IMO when DDL was trying to get me lynched; pretended I had a case on him and then used FWWM to appeal to DH because of how hard it is to trust me. Meh.

INH also has pretty good reads and mostly registers as a civ, only he downplayed the SQ thing after he so obviously gave himself away.

On Golden and nova. It was really boring to read, and I ended up being more on nova's side but I think Golden's opinions were pretty consistent with how he plays. That discussion wasn't really alignment-indicative for nova at all, but here's what I got, I think the greatest indicator of his goodness was Sokoth's freakout post where he completely gave himself out after a pretty mild post by nova.

As far as people actually on this stupid poll. I have DH and Glorfindel as good, INH as leaning good, Wilgy and lap obviously are non-presences and... that leaves Turnip Head. He's just mostly unconvincing irreverent. Don't appreciate his "let's get Enrique" bit which he's been repeating since Day 2 when he hasn't even talked about me otherwise. nova has him at the top of his rainbow, and it sounds like they got to discuss SQ together in their ship BTSC. idk if nova has anything more to say about how that went.

Would be great to have more Wilgy and lap content to read!

Finally comes out guns blazing on DDL. This looks like legitimate casing.

I do think it's likely there's scum other than sokoth on the Luna wagon. I don't think it's DDL. That leaves DH, owner and inh.

It's not Owner.

My dudes I put SQ on the poll rather than (allegedly) Any other civ?

(It's DDL).

More poking of DDL.

Me am big smart mans. Golden crew me have ask you? Golden put Town-Glorf on lynch poll. Ask self: Why do?

We discussed this as a group you fool.

linki @Dragon D. Luffy: what so I'm not supposed to gather anything from your posts then? I don't play to make anybody mad but you're not out of the discussion just because you say so. I don't think you're bad for being "random" but you're 100% hiding behind it now and before

Now they're getting pissed with each other.

The early game back and forthing on DDL looked like teammate distancing but as the game progressed it looked more natural. My primary issue is that if you look at enrique's ISO, his suspicion DDL is the primary theme. I would have expected a more concerted effort to actually create a DDL lynch but he hasn't questioned why DDL isn't being put on the polls.

[Epignosis]

I'd say my biggest problem with Enrique are these two elements:

I don't worry about Glorfindel. It he's good, people can consider what he says. And mafia will have no choice but to kill him early.

Yeah I've been thinking about this meta and I don't really get it lol. Is this how it usually goes? He must make a really terrible bad guy, right?

In my head, this sounds like, "Really? People actually buy this shit? Meaning we have to kill Glorfindel instead of lynch him? What the hell?"

glorfindel and epignosis are good imo

I have no idea why I'm lumped in there with Glorfindel, and no explanation is offered. He said, " Glorfindel and Epignosis are my main town reads. Glorf calling SQ's post reasoned etc. was hilarious and weird but I believe his meta stuff." That came later, but again, there's no explanation as to why I'm there.

[Golden]

Actually Enrique has had a go at me for my poll choices. Quite a few people have at this point.

[MacDougall]

Enrique giving me bad vibes.

I feel like a lot of the ongoing discussions are dead-ends. GTH I don't think DDL is bad, he's just being really clumsy lol. Mac is laying pretty low, but we did just start and I don't think his activity so far is indicative of alignment. Glorfindel is all over sig for what looks like nothing to me but... I remember Glorf's first game, and I believe the talk about his meta. sig has been fine.

Got a funny feeling about speedchuck but he hasn't been around a lot and I don't want to contribute to a possible pile-up. Leaving a placeholder vote on Colin for now for no good reason.

Enrique bad

Yeah.

It's all a bunch of salad.

DDL also has suspicion of Enrique but is voicing it in bite sized chunks.

Ok I'm in

[VOTE: Enrique] aubergine

There is something forced and salad-y about his post.

Parlays the suspicion into a day 1 vote on Enrique.

I'm ok with a lynch on Mac rn but it also feels like bait. Mac is making it too easy.

Enrique is actually trying not to be lynched and I don't think he's actually succeeding.

Hedges on what we know was a mislynch and then makes a strangely phrased jab at Enrique.

If Enrique flips bad lynch DH next.

This could be DDL chaining a civ to an Enrique scumflip caused by distancing gone wrong.

Anybody wanna parse why DDL said he didn't want civs to fall into an easy lynch but hitched his wagon to a two word case against Enrique

Why, I wonder? Maybe he thinks the Enrique wagon is legit?

DharmaHelper with a good point but DDL jabs back.

DH = DDL didn't want an easy lynch but is now going for the easy lynch
DDL = Because I think it's a good case

Hmm.

The idea that I've been trying to deflect a lynch is also pure fiction conceived while I was away ftr

I actually used the wrong wording in there.

You weren't trying to deflect a lynch, because the lynch didn't exist.

You were trying to look like town. So I guess "avoid" is a better word.

And that is not the basis for my case on you, it's just something I compared you with Mac for.

Point is, it didn't seem like anyone as making any effort on building credible cases before.

Now I'm seeing that effort.

This is good. Our chances of lynching correctly on Day 1 went from like 1% to something like 30%, according to a calculation I just pulled from my butt.

2 posts in succession resolve in him backing down from his Enrique case.

Eh I dunno man not feeling it

[VOTE: Enrique] aubergine

Actually backtracks again to vote on Enrique.

Ugh now I want to lynch Luna but she invited me I don't wanna mutiny my captain.

Immediately follows his vote post (like he double posted) with foreshadowing getting himself off of the vote. (extra neg points for shading a dead civ)

Ugh now I want to lynch Luna but she invited me I don't wanna mutiny my captain.

come to the dark side, DDL

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

I'm down for a CFD on Lunalee.

let's go buckaroo

INH (another suspicious motherfucker) invites him to.

Some side reads on Nova and INH -

Spoiler: show

How about Sokoth dude?

I just glanced over his ISO, and I still have a bad vibe about him. His contributive posts have been so far riddled with some good old fence-sitting. He went on about not liking the talks about Glorf, but ended up saying that he's someone we should look after.

Same thing about the Golden/I thing. Liking both posts, and feigning interest with a generic response to what could have been my motivation to not break the tie between Glorf/Golden.

How about Sokoth dude?

I just glanced over his ISO, and I still have a bad vibe about him. His contributive posts have been so far riddled with some good old fence-sitting. He went on about not liking the talks about Glorf, but ended up saying that he's someone we should look after.

Same thing about the Golden/I thing. Liking both posts, and feigning interest with a generic response to what could have been my motivation to not break the tie between Glorf/Golden.

...

Are you down for a CFD on Luna or not?

This is the civviest post in the game due to the timing by Nova and the scummiest post in the game so far by INH. This is day 1 mid Mac mislynch immediately following that previous post.

DDL, switch your vote to Luna. Follow your heart, your gut, and your soul instead of giving some BS chain-of-command cop-out. You're made of sterner stuff than that, aren't you?

This post is interesting. At this stage DDL's vote was still on Enrique and INH was trying to create a CFD of civLuna while civMac was about to get lynched.

I'm gonna post this here so I can start a new post because what happens next is super telling.

[Golden]

TH is suggesting that I didn’t genuinely believe he was bad there, and my behaviour is the same here, therefore I don’t think he’s genuinely bad here.

It has a false starting point.

You seem to be reading it out of context to suggest it implies ‘I don’t genuinely suspect TH here’. This is both false and missing the context.

"In Courage I genuinely thought you were bad." -Golden

Golden was mafia.

I don't see how you were genuine. You were decidedly not genuine because you were bad.

I believed he was also bad.

When there are two bad factions, do you have no genuine baddie reads hunting for the other side?

There was one bad faction and an Egyptian independent.

An independent with role secrets who was clearly messing with everyone and couldn’t be nightkilled. That’s right. If it was an outright serial killer you wouldn’t argue against it being bad.

I’m done with this convo and if you insist on pushing it I’ll sub out. I know this is a game of lying but you push your accusations against my character too far. I explained that was genuine AFTER THE GAME and before this one existed. There is no need for me to lie at that time. It is not a lie, it is what happened.

Your character isn't in question. You are free to lie and cheat as much as you please. That's fair game.

Your agenda here is in question. And that's fair game too. If you want to sub out, sub out. I'm not going to be bullied into not talking about what I wish to discuss because you threaten me with that.

It’s not my agenda. I’m not the one comparing this game to courage. You should ask TH his agenda. He’s the one who is trying to create doubt by using a previous game where I was mafia to shade me here.

My only agenda is defending the aspects of untruth levelled at me.

[MacDougall]

Why don't we have a copy of the day one lynch poll? That is so shit.

Also when I got lynched what were the counterwagons?

[Epignosis]

TH is suggesting that I didn’t genuinely believe he was bad there, and my behaviour is the same here, therefore I don’t think he’s genuinely bad here.

It has a false starting point.

You seem to be reading it out of context to suggest it implies ‘I don’t genuinely suspect TH here’. This is both false and missing the context.

"In Courage I genuinely thought you were bad." -Golden

Golden was mafia.

I don't see how you were genuine. You were decidedly not genuine because you were bad.

I believed he was also bad.

When there are two bad factions, do you have no genuine baddie reads hunting for the other side?

There was one bad faction and an Egyptian independent.

An independent with role secrets who was clearly messing with everyone and couldn’t be nightkilled. That’s right. If it was an outright serial killer you wouldn’t argue against it being bad.

I’m done with this convo and if you insist on pushing it I’ll sub out. I know this is a game of lying but you push your accusations against my character too far. I explained that was genuine AFTER THE GAME and before this one existed. There is no need for me to lie at that time. It is not a lie, it is what happened.

Your character isn't in question. You are free to lie and cheat as much as you please. That's fair game.

Your agenda here is in question. And that's fair game too. If you want to sub out, sub out. I'm not going to be bullied into not talking about what I wish to discuss because you threaten me with that.

It’s not my agenda. I’m not the one comparing this game to courage. You should ask TH his agenda. He’s the one who is trying to create doubt by using a previous game where I was mafia to shade me here.

My only agenda is defending the aspects of untruth levelled at me.

It's my opinion. You were on the only bad team in the game. You were not genuinely hunting mafia. That's my view. It isn't changing. I modded the game. The previous game has been raised as a something to discuss, so I will discuss it, and I don't disagree with TH. I disagree with you. Get over it.

[Epignosis]

Why don't we have a copy of the day one lynch poll? That is so shit.

Also when I got lynched what were the counterwagons?

Spacedaisy forgot to grab it before she deleted it, I think.

[MacDougall]

So at this point in the read. Enrique and DDL have been taking shots at each other on day 1. The main characters present in the thread (which is not long before my day 1 lynch) are DDL, INH, DharmaHelper, Nova and Luna.

Sadly we don't have a copy of the end poll.

Where we left our heroes. DDL was voting for Enrique (who had votes on him and looked capable of getting lynched). INH was pleading with DDL to CFD Luna instead. Mac had some votes on him (Golden and a few others) and DDL had made a comment that he didn't want to lynch me.

Nova has decided at this point that he wants to CFD Sokoth who we now know is Mafia. This is excellent for Nova.

This however.

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Is disgusting.

@insertnamehere No traction on Luna, and DDL disappeared. SokothQultuq it is!

We'll need only two since TH is already there.

I said it before, I'm only voting for one of two people today: you or Luna.

[VOTE: Novaselinenever] aubergine

Disgusting.

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I thought you didn't like Mac's lynch?

Beautiful.

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I thought you didn't like Mac's lynch?

My dudes, DDL is a bad.

Duh.

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I thought you didn't like Mac's lynch?

I have to put it somewhere and the Enrique lynch isn't taking off. I'm not letting scum lynch Golden.

I cannot see any push on Golden?

Nah I'm not a traitor. She invited me to her crew.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

inb4 me using walter white gifs represents my subliminal baddie psychology

This is as fake as fuck. Fake fake fake. The Luna CFD attempt was a fake out. The intention was always for DDL to get his vote off Enrique and distance Enrique from being a viable counterwagon. The amount of time that DDL had allowed to pass between having his vote on him and saying "this Enrique wagon isn't taking off was 13 minutes.

13 minutes.

[MacDougall]

Enrique, INH and Dragon D Luffy is a treasure trove of scum as fuck motherfuckers. Put them on the poll or I will punch you through the screen.