Hogwarts Mafia - END

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's possible Quin is town. His actions make more sense if he's town.

I just don't know HOW

I'm reading genuquin, and reality took a crap on my quindar

so speed, I am looking at this post and trying to reconcile it with your scum list. This post makes it sound like you are seeing Quin as civ but he's on your scum list - what am I missing?

Have you read day 4?

yes but didn't the reveal of INH at the end of day 4 include something (I'll have to go back and see what) that made Quin seem more town? I want to say Poutanko pointed it out. I thought it explained how his night action could be true. I'll go back and look.

Suppose the mafia only has one player with a patronus.

Since INH had a patronus, that makes anyone else with a patronus town.

Quin claims to have a patronus. If Quin is town, he is telling the truth about this.

Therefore, if Quin is town and the mafia don’t have duplicate powers, Quin is town.

This is the argument Pout puts forth. I’m sure you can see the problem with this reasoning.

[nutella]

@speedchuck this post is the one I'm thinking about.

Quin should be cleared also unless maf has another member with patronum.

Who says the mafia doesn't have another patronum?

For that matter, if Quin is lying, why does he have to be using a patronum?

Fixed the quote stuff

Yeah this sums up my problem with it. He could easily be lying about what power he even used.

[juliets]

It's possible Quin is town. His actions make more sense if he's town.

I just don't know HOW

I'm reading genuquin, and reality took a crap on my quindar

so speed, I am looking at this post and trying to reconcile it with your scum list. This post makes it sound like you are seeing Quin as civ but he's on your scum list - what am I missing?

Have you read day 4?

yes but didn't the reveal of INH at the end of day 4 include something (I'll have to go back and see what) that made Quin seem more town? I want to say Poutanko pointed it out. I thought it explained how his night action could be true. I'll go back and look.

Suppose the mafia only has one player with a patronus.

Since INH had a patronus, that makes anyone else with a patronus town.

Quin claims to have a patronus. If Quin is town, he is telling the truth about this.

Therefore, if Quin is town and the mafia don’t have duplicate powers, Quin is town.

This is the argument Pout puts forth. I’m sure you can see the problem with this reasoning.

Yes, I do. So do you think Quin just tossed off that patronus line to timmer (as quoted by JJJ) as a lie? But why? Why say anything unless he is trying to combat what speed said about him visiting LC. The thing I need to nail down is did he toss off that line before or after speed said he visited LC. It seems like he said it before but I need to check.

[nutella]

It's possible Quin is town. His actions make more sense if he's town.

I just don't know HOW

I'm reading genuquin, and reality took a crap on my quindar

so speed, I am looking at this post and trying to reconcile it with your scum list. This post makes it sound like you are seeing Quin as civ but he's on your scum list - what am I missing?

Have you read day 4?

yes but didn't the reveal of INH at the end of day 4 include something (I'll have to go back and see what) that made Quin seem more town? I want to say Poutanko pointed it out. I thought it explained how his night action could be true. I'll go back and look.

Suppose the mafia only has one player with a patronus.

Since INH had a patronus, that makes anyone else with a patronus town.

Quin claims to have a patronus. If Quin is town, he is telling the truth about this.

Therefore, if Quin is town and the mafia don’t have duplicate powers, Quin is town.

This is the argument Pout puts forth. I’m sure you can see the problem with this reasoning.

Yes, I do. So do you think Quin just tossed off that patronus line to timmer (as quoted by JJJ) as a lie? But why? Why say anything unless he is trying to combat what speed said about him visiting LC. The thing I need to nail down is did he toss off that line before or after speed said he visited LC. It seems like he said it before but I need to check.

Mm evening he did say it unprompted it's a gambit I could see scumquin doing to come out and say he tried to help the vig to get town cred. Orrr timmer is scum with him and it's part of an even bigger ploy, but I find that pretty unlikely.

[nutella]

Ugh evening = even if

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't understand the question.

This is the post that started everything. The WHOLE CONTROVERSY is trying to explain this post. The reason I suspect Quin is that I am unable to explain it.

It isn’t merely about what Quin claimed to do and to whom, but also when he claimed it. There was no controversy at this point. That was no need to explain himself or to lie or to do anything at all. But he still said it.

What does that mean to you?

[speedchuck]

Yes, I do. So do you think Quin just tossed off that patronus line to timmer (as quoted by JJJ) as a lie? But why? Why say anything unless he is trying to combat what speed said about him visiting LC. The thing I need to nail down is did he toss off that line before or after speed said he visited LC. It seems like he said it before but I need to check.

It was before.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's possible Quin is town. His actions make more sense if he's town.

I just don't know HOW

I'm reading genuquin, and reality took a crap on my quindar

so speed, I am looking at this post and trying to reconcile it with your scum list. This post makes it sound like you are seeing Quin as civ but he's on your scum list - what am I missing?

Have you read day 4?

yes but didn't the reveal of INH at the end of day 4 include something (I'll have to go back and see what) that made Quin seem more town? I want to say Poutanko pointed it out. I thought it explained how his night action could be true. I'll go back and look.

Suppose the mafia only has one player with a patronus.

Since INH had a patronus, that makes anyone else with a patronus town.

Quin claims to have a patronus. If Quin is town, he is telling the truth about this.

Therefore, if Quin is town and the mafia don’t have duplicate powers, Quin is town.

This is the argument Pout puts forth. I’m sure you can see the problem with this reasoning.

Yes, I do. So do you think Quin just tossed off that patronus line to timmer (as quoted by JJJ) as a lie? But why? Why say anything unless he is trying to combat what speed said about him visiting LC. The thing I need to nail down is did he toss off that line before or after speed said he visited LC. It seems like he said it before but I need to check.

I’m not putting forth an argument that Quin is mafia. I’m putting forth an argument that Quin is not mechanically cleared.

Also, mafia do things to do things. They do things to look town or throw town off.

“Why would this player do X if they were mafia” is often accompanied by clearing a scum player in error.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Somebody else propose things for me to naysay.

[speedchuck]

I don't understand the question.

This is the post that started everything. The WHOLE CONTROVERSY is trying to explain this post. The reason I suspect Quin is that I am unable to explain it.

It isn’t merely about what Quin claimed to do and to whom, but also when he claimed it. There was no controversy at this point. That was no need to explain himself or to lie or to do anything at all. But he still said it.

What does that mean to you?

Same thing it's meant to me all this time.

I have absolutely no idea why he would say that as scum. I have my doubts because of this. I can see why Quin would say it as town, if it were truthful, but why take the risk as scum? Why start this whole thing?

I don't know.

That could mean he's town and we just don't have the whole picture. I'm having faith that you guys can figure it out, because obviously I'm dying before Quin. It's not like I'm trying to get Quin lynched over me. I want you to confirm my info, then use the heck out of it.

I suspect Quin because of my information and because he was not forthcoming about his second target, and has dropped off in engagement of the thread after this whole thing started. I have reasons to townread Quin too. Lack of motive. Early Genuquin-ness. The audacity of the claim.

If I was entirely certain that Quin was scum, I wouldn't have spent so much time trying to unravel all this garbage.

[speedchuck]

Somebody else propose things for me to naysay.

Mac is scum because he farted on the vig kills.

Sprityo is town because he doesn't feel any duty to put forth full effort for his team.

Sloonei is town because Owner was town.

Colin is scum because of how quickly the Glorf wagon picked up when the lynch was between Colin and Long Con. (I know this one paints me in shadow and I don't care.)

Have fun.

[juliets]

Ok so it looks like speed had said that timmer did not target LC, timmer confirmed that and then Quin came in with his patronus line. In between those things Quin also asked speed to share everything he knew but speed had not by the time Quin said to timmer you wasted my patronus. So it's possible Quin realized speed had watched LC - though speed had not said that yet - and so he threw out the patronus line to establish that he had visited timmer instead. But is it probable that Quin realized what speed had done at that point in time? speed asked for Quin to share what he had done and speed would share what he had done and Quin's response was:

Why do you think he didn't?

Night actions. Timmer didn't visit Long Con last night.

This is correct. I assumed that any attempt at using my vig would be tampered with, so I used a different item to avoid having an obvious killshot redirected.

god damn it timmer you wasted my patronus

Tell me what you did and I'll tell you what I did

well i know what you did and you know what i did so i reckon nah

So @Quin what did you mean when you said "I know what you did..."

If this has already been asked and answered just direct me there.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Somebody else propose things for me to naysay.

Mac is scum because he farted on the vig kills.

Sprityo is town because he doesn't feel any duty to put forth full effort for his team.

Sloonei is town because Owner was town.

Colin is scum because of how quickly the Glorf wagon picked up when the lynch was between Colin and Long Con. (I know this one paints me in shadow and I don't care.)

Have fun.

No. He’s town because he’s expecting failure.

No. Townies have teammates too. More of them, even.

I can’t see a flaw in this part.

Also wrong. Nutella and I voted for Glor and Colin has been copped town.

[nutella]

Juliets I think quin just meant speed had already claimed his actions so quin is saying he knows that (while speed meant that he could still tell him more, i.e. the other person he saw)

Jack fwiw I actually agree w speed about Colin, he's very much still in my poe despite the cop check

[speedchuck]

Juliets I think quin just meant speed had already claimed his actions so quin is saying he knows that (while speed meant that he could still tell him more, i.e. the other person he saw)

Jack fwiw I actually agree w speed about Colin, he's very much still in my poe despite the cop check

But I hadn't claimed yet.

[speedchuck]

I claimed that Timmer did not visit long Con. I could have gotten that information with 2 or 3 different abilities.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

[nutella]

Ahhh. Hmmm

[nutella]

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

That's too long ago for my feeble brain, can you help me out here

[juliets]

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

That's too long ago for my feeble brain, can you help me out here

Agreed. I can't even remember everything thats happened in this game much less one that was so long ago.

[speedchuck]

Phenon was my first game here. I have emotional memories about it, burning everyone else, making it down to the wire...

Still have NO idea what JoH is talking about.

[Jackofhearts2005]

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

That's too long ago for my feeble brain, can you help me out here

Golden was the mafia watcher and was called out for not watching outed power roles like cop and vig and otherwise blatantly not using the watcher power (which is possibly the best townie power in mafia) from a town perspective.

Speedchuck similar to this. Why does a town watcher need to watch Long Con, who is going to attract town cop, blocker and vig type roles, which are more helpful for scum to know?

Town watcher should be watching Timmer so the mafia can’t kill or imperio the likely town vig. Town watcher should be watching Juliets so the mafia can’t kill a confirmed townie or imperio her rez. Town watcher should be watching Jay or DH because they have targets on their back. Or even anyone they think could be town that scum might kill.

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

[Sloonei]

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

That's too long ago for my feeble brain, can you help me out here

Golden was the mafia watcher and was called out for not watching outed power roles like cop and vig and otherwise blatantly not using the watcher power (which is possibly the best townie power in mafia) from a town perspective.

Speedchuck similar to this. Why does a town watcher need to watch Long Con, who is going to attract town cop, blocker and vig type roles, which are more helpful for scum to know?

Town watcher should be watching Timmer so the mafia can’t kill or imperio the likely town vig. Town watcher should be watching Juliets so the mafia can’t kill a confirmed townie or imperio her rez. Town watcher should be watching Jay or DH because they have targets on their back. Or even anyone they think could be town that scum might kill.

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

This is the most sensible take on all this that i’ve read.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

And his rationale for doing so is identical to Golden's.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

And his rationale for doing so is identical to Golden's.

Iirc, Golden’s rational was “Whatever, Jack. We can’t all be as smart as you.”

[Jackofhearts2005]

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

And his rationale for doing so is identical to Golden's.

Iirc, Golden’s rational was “Whatever, Jack. We can’t all be as smart as you.”

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Please walk me through your strategy for watching those players when you did.

I figured my best strategy was probably finding people who I could confirm as town. At first (with jay) I went for someone I thought the town might help, but since then I've gone with the top three target (in my opinion) for people who might mess with them.

Also, the reason I was trying to keep this quiet is because with this knowledge my role is more or less useless. Keeping the perception I was a standard watcher could have drawn the kill away from others. But obviously that didn't work.

Why did you watch the people that you watched, speedchuck?

Bullz watched you. I can't ask him why. Possibly because town Jay is a possible N1 mafia target. And technically you were! Not that I know what was done.

I watched Long Con because I knew something would happen there, and I could possibly get townfirms or scumfirms out of it. Vigs, protections, etc. It worked, sorta. Quin threw a wrench into things.

[ColinIsCool]

Spped
Sloonei
Luna
Quin
Sprit

POE. I think.

This just in: Colin fails to count to 7.

I'll be Jay's advocate and ask for two more.

Jack and Mac I guess.

[nutella]

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

That's too long ago for my feeble brain, can you help me out here

Golden was the mafia watcher and was called out for not watching outed power roles like cop and vig and otherwise blatantly not using the watcher power (which is possibly the best townie power in mafia) from a town perspective.

Speedchuck similar to this. Why does a town watcher need to watch Long Con, who is going to attract town cop, blocker and vig type roles, which are more helpful for scum to know?

Town watcher should be watching Timmer so the mafia can’t kill or imperio the likely town vig. Town watcher should be watching Juliets so the mafia can’t kill a confirmed townie or imperio her rez. Town watcher should be watching Jay or DH because they have targets on their back. Or even anyone they think could be town that scum might kill.

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

Gotcha. I feel like speed previously justified his choice but this is a very good point.

[nutella]

Please walk me through your strategy for watching those players when you did.

I figured my best strategy was probably finding people who I could confirm as town. At first (with jay) I went for someone I thought the town might help, but since then I've gone with the top three target (in my opinion) for people who might mess with them.

Also, the reason I was trying to keep this quiet is because with this knowledge my role is more or less useless. Keeping the perception I was a standard watcher could have drawn the kill away from others. But obviously that didn't work.

Why did you watch the people that you watched, speedchuck?

Bullz watched you. I can't ask him why. Possibly because town Jay is a possible N1 mafia target. And technically you were! Not that I know what was done.

I watched Long Con because I knew something would happen there, and I could possibly get townfirms or scumfirms out of it. Vigs, protections, etc. It worked, sorta. Quin threw a wrench into things.

Oh wow.

[speedchuck]

Once again, I'd rather you guys not tell me how to play. I'm already getting lynched, I don't need to get pissy again about you criticizing my watch target.

It all comes down to Phenon Golden.

That's too long ago for my feeble brain, can you help me out here

Golden was the mafia watcher and was called out for not watching outed power roles like cop and vig and otherwise blatantly not using the watcher power (which is possibly the best townie power in mafia) from a town perspective.

Speedchuck similar to this. Why does a town watcher need to watch Long Con, who is going to attract town cop, blocker and vig type roles, which are more helpful for scum to know?

Town watcher should be watching Timmer so the mafia can’t kill or imperio the likely town vig. Town watcher should be watching Juliets so the mafia can’t kill a confirmed townie or imperio her rez. Town watcher should be watching Jay or DH because they have targets on their back. Or even anyone they think could be town that scum might kill.

Speed watched the only player that he’d never catch a scum player killing, the basically outed goon.

Timmer didn't get killed, and if Quin was believed, was targeted by protection.
Juliets didn't get killed, so that was also wrong. I didn't think Rez could be imperio'd, since Imperio USUALLY aims at living targets.
Jay or DH - which one? Turns out NEITHER OF THEM.

You're asking me to give up an near-guaranteed town-vig-firm and probable mafia protect, which I might have gotten that night, to try and guess the mafia kill target? (Never would have guessed Epi, as it turns out.)

Screw you guys. I did what I thought was right and got better results than I would have with anyone else except Juliets, and HOW WAS I TO KNOW SHE HAD A REZ?

[speedchuck]

TL;DR I made the right decision and you guys all suck at the watcher role and suck more for criticizing me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

TL;DR I made the right decision and you guys all suck at the watcher role and suck more for criticizing me.

You keep saying you're being "criticized", which is bunk. You're being suspected. I just showed you a clear record of a mafioso doing exactly what you've claimed to do, and I cannot remember ever seeing a civilian do it.

That doesn't mean your case is closed, but the emotion you're feeding into your posts looks outright fake at this point. Nobody criticized shit.

[speedchuck]

TL;DR I made the right decision and you guys all suck at the watcher role and suck more for criticizing me.

You keep saying you're being "criticized", which is bunk. You're being suspected. I just showed you a clear record of a mafioso doing exactly what you've claimed to do, and I cannot remember ever seeing a civilian do it.

That doesn't mean your case is closed, but the emotion you're feeding into your posts looks outright fake at this point. Nobody criticized shit.

You've seen it now, sir. And therefore I will take it as a criticism.

If I thought anything at all was wrong with my chosen target, I wouldn't have outed it. If I was a scum watcher, I wouldn't have claimed it. Not without reason.

I recognize that you guys are treating it like a suspicion, but I'm getting lynched or vigged anyway. As soon as the cop check dropped, I stopped caring about suspicion. All I care about now is my dignity and finding actual scum.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I stopped caring about suspicion.

I once won as a serial killer due at least in part to the fact that I kept insisting this once I had been outed.

[speedchuck]

I stopped caring about suspicion.

I once won as a serial killer due at least in part to the fact that I kept insisting this once I had been outed.

Link or it didn't happen.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Link or it didn't happen.

k

[speedchuck]

Neat.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

....it's not read
N1 - Bullz
N2 - Colin

I was thinking about this.

poutanko has said that her role has been obliviated, which may indicate that the mafia team had identified her divination [cop] ability. If so, that information could not have been secured until at least Day 2, after N1 actions were resolved.

This would suggest the following:

N1 was less likely to be tampered with than N2. Indeed, for the speedzeye check to have been screwed up, it'd have to reflect either the mafia redirecting poutanko without knowing her role (rather random choice), or performing some manner of swap with Bullzeye (a high-probably vigilante target, yikes).

[speedchuck]

....it's not read
N1 - Bullz
N2 - Colin

I was thinking about this.

poutanko has said that her role has been obliviated, which may indicate that the mafia team had identified her divination [cop] ability. If so, that information could not have been secured until at least Day 2, after N1 actions were resolved.

This would suggest the following:

N1 was less likely to be tampered with than N2. Indeed, for the speedzeye check to have been screwed up, it'd have to reflect either the mafia redirecting poutanko without knowing her role (rather random choice), or performing some manner of swap with Bullzeye (a high-probably vigilante target, yikes).

It'll be more confusing once I flip. Perhaps Pout should be in the POE at that point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

....it's not read
N1 - Bullz
N2 - Colin

Some sort of redirection doesn’t seem like it should be out of the question.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Lynch him. The mafia rezzed INH and could have shenanigans planned, even if unlikely. They weren’t ready to lose speedchuck today.

What’s the evidence against speed?

Pout says she has a cop check on me.

How did I miss this?

What the hell is this, Sloonei?

[Sloonei]

....it's not read
N1 - Bullz
N2 - Colin

Some sort of redirection doesn’t seem like it should be out of the question.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Lynch him. The mafia rezzed INH and could have shenanigans planned, even if unlikely. They weren’t ready to lose speedchuck today.

What’s the evidence against speed?

Pout says she has a cop check on me.

How did I miss this?

What the hell is this, Sloonei?

My first comment was about the speedchuck/quin conflict. Note my confusion in another post where poutanko responded to me.

[DharmaHelper]

Lol remember when Jay said he forgot I made a case on Long Con but also he had that pretty interesting post about how he was less confident about Long Con and still had his doubts about an LC lynch right on the same page as my case lol wow wild game so far huh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lol remember when Jay said he forgot I made a case on Long Con but also he had that pretty interesting post about how he was less confident about Long Con and still had his doubts about an LC lynch right on the same page as my case lol wow wild game so far huh.

My suspicion came from his eagerness to jump on any mention of salad and the way he handled Colin's calls for resurrections.

[DharmaHelper]

Lol remember when Jay said he forgot I made a case on Long Con but also he had that pretty interesting post about how he was less confident about Long Con and still had his doubts about an LC lynch right on the same page as my case lol wow wild game so far huh.

My suspicion came from his eagerness to jump on any mention of salad and the way he handled Colin's calls for resurrections.

Wow lol thats wild Jay that's pretty crazy my guy wow lol.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lol remember when Jay said he forgot I made a case on Long Con but also he had that pretty interesting post about how he was less confident about Long Con and still had his doubts about an LC lynch right on the same page as my case lol wow wild game so far huh.

My suspicion came from his eagerness to jump on any mention of salad and the way he handled Colin's calls for resurrections.

Wow lol thats wild Jay that's pretty crazy my guy wow lol.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My first comment was about the speedchuck/quin conflict. Note my confusion in another post where poutanko responded to me.

You've been around and seen a lot in this game now. Do you still feel hopelessly behind?

[DharmaHelper]

Pretty wild how Jay forgot about 2 pages of me going after Long Con when he made that pretty cool and good and fun post about "Maybe LC is bad but maybe not lol IDC I'm so random UWU"

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Pretty wild how Jay forgot about 2 pages of me going after Long Con when he made that pretty cool and good and fun post about "Maybe LC is bad but maybe not lol IDC I'm so random UWU"

I have a way of droning out your posts.

[speedchuck]

I want this version of DH to play in every game I'm in.