[END] The Syndicate's 2013 Game of Champions

[Draconus]

trocar honest porringer Matt?

Furthermore, we basically just had a bonus lynch. A potentially revelatory one at that.

And people are coming in here voting for an outed, neutralized independent?

RULES

3. No role outing of yourself or anyone else.

Is this role Ikkl Genius or role hinting, because if it is he guinde rousing been modkilled as well?

I don't think it's role outing at all. There's still a shit ton of speculation going around.

And I agree with Epi here. We are so distracted by this shit that we are not looking at the prospect of AP being so reckless as a baddie that he was modkilled.

[Flyin' High]

Apparently nobody fears a game of multiple lynch switches.

That's the danger Zodac represents. People going after the biggest suspect is precisely why Zodac nearly won a 30 player game as a last man standing role.

Flyin' High, you of all people should remember that.

I do remember that. But what if Zodac was already thinking along the same lines you are and decided not to target him last night just to screw with us all? Or perhaps this apparent chaos did affect Zodac's targets. I think you are making assumptions based on trying to get into the head of Zodac, but you don't even know who has that role (unless it's you). But I'm guessing Zodac wouldn't know whether or not they were affected by said chaos until the lynch is over.

My point is, unless you know 100% who Zodac targeted last night and whether or not those targets were affected by the "chaos" then you are just making an assumption. You may be right. You may be wrong. Time will tell.

[Epignosis]

Apparently nobody fears a game of multiple lynch switches.

That's the danger Zodac represents. People going after the biggest suspect is precisely why Zodac nearly won a 30 player game as a last man standing role.

Flyin' High, you of all people should remember that.

I do remember that. But what if Zodac was already thinking along the same lines you are and decided not to target him last night just to screw with us all? Or perhaps this apparent chaos did affect Zodac's targets. I think you are making assumptions based on trying to get into the head of Zodac, but you don't even know who has that role (unless it's you). But I'm guessing Zodac wouldn't know whether or not they were affected by said chaos until the lynch is over.

My point is, unless you know 100% who Zodac targeted last night and whether or not those targets were affected by the "chaos" then you are just making an assumption. You may be right. You may be wrong. Time will tell.

What?

We have to be 100% or we're "just making an assumption."

That does not sound like the Flyin' High I know.

Your argument above is a big "what if" AND WIFOM if you like.

You voted a certain someone after A Person got lynched. And now there's 7 votes. What's a bad team that lost a member to do?

Folks, this is not a good FH:

I love being reminded I'm playing a game hosted by MP.

RIP in pieces Mr. Sinister Exaggerator.

I agree that some players seem to be making a lot of assumptions about how roles may or may not have changed.

Rather than drag this out any longer, I am just going to vote for [redacted]. He's basically outed himself, and he continues to be doing what he can to keep attention on him which is distracting to the nth degree. If he truly had civvie intentions I honestly don't think he'd continue to post the way he's been posting.

[Epignosis]

* modkilled, not lynched.

[Draconus]

Dom, I'm responding to you, but I have to cook now.

I think it's a combination of editing his posts and missing the curse, but mostly the first one. But in the end, he's going to reap just what he sowed. As much as I want to vote for Epig today, because it's such a perfect day, I will be going with He Who Must Not Be Named. If he comes back as an indy though, I will be going after Epig. Very, VERY hard.

Votes.....well, you know

10

If he comes back independent you'll be going after me?

Yeeeaaaaaah..... That pinged the shit out of me. BWT

You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

[Epignosis]

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

[Draconus]

Fourth, EVEN IF HE IS BAD, I would be screaming the same thing from the rooftops. Some people seem to think I'm defending that individual: I am not. I do not want Zodac to wreak the havoc I saw in Masters of the Universe. I saw him play the others many, many times over.

Ditto!

You just keep me hanging on.
You just keep me hanging on.

[Nevinera]

Holy crap. I was only gone a few hours!

Not voting yet, but I think Epig's argument about Zodac has lot's of tactical merit. Even if he had time to change his target though, he probably would still have left it on redacted, because it was obvious to anyone listening that he was *going* to be lynched next.

I have my doubts about the media powers enumerated though:

1) If he actually just described the bulk of his powers accurately, he would have been modkilled for sure. That's not something you're allowed to do.
2) If he used some kind of 'chaos randomizer' like the role used to have, surely (a) it wouldn't have resulted in a bunch of people systematically receiving the same curse and (b) It wouldn't have resulted in NK's targeting both me and svs, two very active players at the time.

I also think it's very unlikely that MP would have left the secret roles remotely intact - not much point in secrets if everyone knows how they work, right?
So, while I am very concerned about Zodac's power, I have no confidence that he will be able to run this game like that one.
I *do* however know of a good way to find out. If we lynch that guy, and someone else gets lynched, then we *know*.
A little knowing is worth a *lot* of guessing.

I'm going to hold out for later on the vote, because I think more information might be surfacing, but I will probably vote for the obvious person.
Desperation is evident, and I take that as a good sign.

[Draconus]

I think today the best thing I can do is to copy my previous vote. I just don't believe we can trust him to stick with the civs and think on the whole it's best if we just eliminate the threat outright.

*Votes X*


Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

I think you're bad. Why?
I'd be more threatened by a powerful indie if I were bad, too.

But, It's Just a perfect day.
You just keep me hanging on.

Actually I like indies a lot better when I'm bad. I'd be being nice to him, trying to subtly coax him to my side. Do you think you can trust him to stay with the civs?

Oh, it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you

I don't fully trust him, no. But do you think he would try to win with the civs if we try to lynch his ass every time we turn around? No.

But my main focus in my posting barrage is trying to avoid a potential Zodac assassination.

[Draconus]

You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

And, Bullz, I feel a little bit better about you because of your response. Thanks

You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

[DharmaHelper]

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I've had a thought or two about this myself. I know a few people from RM such as Kate, JC, Rey, who would absolutely not let any of their teammates go full out whackadoo. Dom is someone I also don't think would stand for that kind of nonsense. The only real players I think would tolerate or encourage that sort of flippancy are like, Lizzy/Vomp :P

[Epignosis]

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I've had a thought or two about this myself. I know a few people from RM such as Kate, JC, Rey, who would absolutely not let any of their teammates go full out whackadoo. Dom is someone I also don't think would stand for that kind of nonsense. The only real players I think would tolerate or encourage that sort of flippancy are like, Lizzy/Vomp :P

That's the same thing I was thinking.

[Draconus]

I'm kind of disappointed that this whole Zodac scenario isn't being taken more seriously. If there's something I would do as an outed indie, it would be to tell the truth about my ability and what will happen with it. I don't completely trust the Sexy Motherfucker. But I will not be a part of a not-so-beautiful Zodac moment.

The reason I think he's bluffing is because he didn't bring up the whole "I got to pick 3 roles who are immune to my chaos" until Epig had his revelation that the chaos would also affect Zodac's power last night.

If he had mentioned it before, I'd give more though to believing him. But he posted it as a reaction to what Epig posted. And I think he did that because he doesn't actually want to be lynched and is trying to come up with ways to deter us from actually lynching him.

Yeah I had this thought, too. As I said, I don't fully trust him. But why rush in and risk it? I don't like the whole "Let's lynch him, and see if someone else dies" thing. I'm getting very bad feelings about it.

[Hedgeowl]

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I've had a thought or two about this myself. I know a few people from RM such as Kate, JC, Rey, who would absolutely not let any of their teammates go full out whackadoo. Dom is someone I also don't think would stand for that kind of nonsense. The only real players I think would tolerate or encourage that sort of flippancy are like, Lizzy/Vomp :P

That's the same thing I was thinking.

Like I said, with AP flipping baddie, I feel good about my vote. I may even be feeling better about it the more I think on it. Notice the timing of when I started talking about them and how quickly both of them showed up in the thread.

[insertnamehere]

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I've had a thought or two about this myself. I know a few people from RM such as Kate, JC, Rey, who would absolutely not let any of their teammates go full out whackadoo. Dom is someone I also don't think would stand for that kind of nonsense. The only real players I think would tolerate or encourage that sort of flippancy are like, Lizzy/Vomp :P

My guess is that A Person probably paid as much attention to them as she did MP. Which is to say, none at all.

[Epignosis]

I am willing to vote Vompatti again.

[Draconus]

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I've had a thought or two about this myself. I know a few people from RM such as Kate, JC, Rey, who would absolutely not let any of their teammates go full out whackadoo. Dom is someone I also don't think would stand for that kind of nonsense. The only real players I think would tolerate or encourage that sort of flippancy are like, Lizzy/Vomp :P

I agree with this as well.

Have they ever actually been on teams before?

[thellama73]

Apparently nobody fears a game of multiple lynch switches.

That's the danger Zodac represents. People going after the biggest suspect is precisely why Zodac nearly won a 30 player game as a last man standing role.

Flyin' High, you of all people should remember that.

But what's the alternative? NOT going after the most suspicious people?

Oh, such a perfect day
You just keep me hanging on

This is my favorite point anyone has made ever. Bullzeye is the only one making sense in this thread. If Epig is right about Zodak, it applies to anyone we could lynch, not just [redacted]. What are we supposed to do then? Spread the vote out all crazy? I don't see that as being a winning strategy.

[insertnamehere]

Spread the vote out all crazy? I don't see that as being a winning strategy.

Heh.

[Flyin' High]

Apparently nobody fears a game of multiple lynch switches.

That's the danger Zodac represents. People going after the biggest suspect is precisely why Zodac nearly won a 30 player game as a last man standing role.

Flyin' High, you of all people should remember that.

I do remember that. But what if Zodac was already thinking along the same lines you are and decided not to target him last night just to screw with us all? Or perhaps this apparent chaos did affect Zodac's targets. I think you are making assumptions based on trying to get into the head of Zodac, but you don't even know who has that role (unless it's you). But I'm guessing Zodac wouldn't know whether or not they were affected by said chaos until the lynch is over.

My point is, unless you know 100% who Zodac targeted last night and whether or not those targets were affected by the "chaos" then you are just making an assumption. You may be right. You may be wrong. Time will tell.

What?

We have to be 100% or we're "just making an assumption."

That does not sound like the Flyin' High I know.

Your argument above is a big "what if" AND WIFOM if you like.

You voted a certain someone after A Person got lynched. And now there's 7 votes. What's a bad team that lost a member to do?

Folks, this is not a good FH:

I love being reminded I'm playing a game hosted by MP.

RIP in pieces Mr. Sinister Exaggerator.

I agree that some players seem to be making a lot of assumptions about how roles may or may not have changed.

Rather than drag this out any longer, I am just going to vote for [redacted]. He's basically outed himself, and he continues to be doing what he can to keep attention on him which is distracting to the nth degree. If he truly had civvie intentions I honestly don't think he'd continue to post the way he's been posting.

The last time you made a bold statement about me not being good was when I was Jack Shephard in the LOST game. You were wrong then and you're wrong now.

You are making assumptions. You are acting like it is a certainty that Zodac targeted [redacted] Night 1. Yes, there is a good chance that happened, but it's not a foregone conclusion. And I have always, always been a player that considers things from every angle, which I'm doing now.

These are the assumptions you are making:
1) Zodac's role is excatly the same as it was in MOTU.
2) Zodac targeted [redacted] Night 1.
3A) [redacted] is telling the truth when he says he picked Zodac to be immune from his chaos
OR
3B) [redacted] is lying about the chaos and no one's targets were actually redirected at all

Again, you may be completely correct. But you also could be wrong (as you are once again thinking I'm bad when I'm not).

Originally you suggested we wait until Day 3 to vote that player. I was on board with that. Then crazy day began and chaos appeared to reign supreme. You then proposed that Zodac may have been affected by the chaos meaning his targets got switched. THEN [redacted] posted that he was allowed to pick 3 players immune from his chaos. That's the part I'm not buying. I think he said that because he realized people might actually begin voting for him today and was hoping to come up with an excuse to keep people from voting him.

Also, clever how you made one part of my post big, but ignored the part immediately after the enlarging where I clearly state you may be right, you may be wrong. I am not declaring certainties implying I know for sure what happened last night which is what it feels like you're doing.

[Epignosis]

Apparently nobody fears a game of multiple lynch switches.

That's the danger Zodac represents. People going after the biggest suspect is precisely why Zodac nearly won a 30 player game as a last man standing role.

Flyin' High, you of all people should remember that.

But what's the alternative? NOT going after the most suspicious people?

Oh, such a perfect day
You just keep me hanging on

This is my favorite point anyone has made ever. Bullzeye is the only one making sense in this thread. If Epig is right about Zodak, it applies to anyone we could lynch, not just [redacted]. What are we supposed to do then? Spread the vote out all crazy? I don't see that as being a winning strategy.

No. Don't spread the vote out all crazy.

I hosted you in MOTU. You understand Zodac. So you are either pretending ignorance or something else.

[thellama73]

I hosted you in MOTU. You understand Zodac. So you are either pretending ignorance or something else.

Zodac (assume he hasn't been altered, a strong assumption) can split the vote between the winner and another player, and decide ties. So what does it matter who has the most votes? Zodac still gets to choose unless the second highest vote getter is close to the favorite. I don't see why that means don't vote for the person we are all voting for over anyone else.

[Draconus]

So keep voting SMF and let one person control the lynches?

[thellama73]

So keep voting SMF and let one person control the lynches?

Again, what is the alternative? How is there a way to vote without letting Zodac control the lynches?

[Draconus]

So keep voting SMF and let one person control the lynches?

Again, what is the alternative? How is there a way to vote without letting Zodac control the lynches?

Look for another suspect.

[thellama73]

So keep voting SMF and let one person control the lynches?

Again, what is the alternative? How is there a way to vote without letting Zodac control the lynches?

Look for another suspect.

And how does that stop Zodac from choosing that suspect and still controlling the lynch?

We would have to be completely unpredictable, which I don't think is likely, practical or useful.

[Draconus]

So keep voting SMF and let one person control the lynches?

Again, what is the alternative? How is there a way to vote without letting Zodac control the lynches?

Look for another suspect.

And how does that stop Zodac from choosing that suspect and still controlling the lynch?

We would have to be completely unpredictable, which I don't think is likely, practical or useful.

Only 8 people out of 28 have voted. Zodac has already made his choice. We have not. You'd be surprised what 20 people can do with a day left to vote. How defeatist of you, llama...

It's just a perfect day
Feed animals in the zoo
Then later a movie, too
And then home

Oh, it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you
Oh, such a perfect day
You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

Just a perfect day
Problems all left alone
Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

Just a perfect day
You made me forget myself
I thought I was someone else
Someone good

[thellama73]

So keep voting SMF and let one person control the lynches?

Again, what is the alternative? How is there a way to vote without letting Zodac control the lynches?

Look for another suspect.

And how does that stop Zodac from choosing that suspect and still controlling the lynch?

We would have to be completely unpredictable, which I don't think is likely, practical or useful.

Only 8 people out of 28 have voted. Zodac has already made his choice. We have not. You'd be surprised what 20 people can do with a day left to vote. How defeatist of you, llama...

I still prefer to vote for the person I think is bad rather than trying to second guess roles with secrets. Call me old fashioned.

[Dom]

You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

Dom, I accidentally closed the tab where I was writing you back. But here's the gist of my thoughts:

First, I don't trust that person, insofar as the positive connotations of that verb go. I believe he is telling the truth, nothing more. Apparently, most people believe he is who he says he is. If he could target roles to not be redirected (a claim I yet wonder about), then they make the most logical sense. Pick Zodac to protect yourself, and pick the killer, because he knows they didn't choose him to kill (he's the #1 lynch candidate) and he doesn't want that kill to potentially be redirected to him. All that makes sense to me.

Second, if he is who we think he is, then lynching him is a wasted lynch with A Person gone, is it not? Think about that. As for derailing the thread, that's not his fault. If people ignore him, that stops happening. I've been accused of that before (most notably and recently in LOST) and it's a silly thing to say. People can ignore him.

Third, no, I don't know his win condition.

Fourth, EVEN IF HE IS BAD, I would be screaming the same thing from the rooftops. Some people seem to think I'm defending that individual: I am not. I do not want Zodac to wreak the havoc I saw in Masters of the Universe. I saw him play the others many, many times over.

I saw it, but you may have missed it Dom, because you went MIA in that one.

Epig, here is my confusion:
You acknowledged that the chaos would have totally distorted the results of who targeted who. YOU said that. Why are you back peddling? Because AFTER you said that, it was conveniently mentioned that three roles (WHAT????? since when do players target ROLES???? That would be super powerful) were exempt. This is after a lie about a machine that spat out suspicious names has been fabricated for attention and power. And you choose to believe him? If of any day, this seems the best one to just do a straight lynch.
HOWEVER, I am willing to trust you on this because you're so insistent. I just do not see many good alternatives. I do have some thoughts that I will be outlining later though. I would like your feedback on them.

FYI, I do feel bad about forgetting I was playing MOTU. School hit hard :/

Lizzy dear, for being insanified you make some excellent points. I will pay more attnetion to our bird of a feather after this lynch for sure.

Yeah Mongoose, way to be green!

Linki at least That Guy is posting and participating.

You understood Lizzy there? I didn't!
But I do agree that BWT looks pretty suspicious. He is dropping in with votes on people with votes already. Not really adding anything. Etc

He also matches the profile of someone who would allow AP to behave the way AP was behaving given the whole BWT-Hasn't-Been-Around-Much thing.

It's a start, I guess.

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I've had a thought or two about this myself. I know a few people from RM such as Kate, JC, Rey, who would absolutely not let any of their teammates go full out whackadoo. Dom is someone I also don't think would stand for that kind of nonsense. The only real players I think would tolerate or encourage that sort of flippancy are like, Lizzy/Vomp :P

Do you think FH would though? How about BWT?

I am willing to vote Vompatti again.

Do you think Vompatti would behave the way Vompatti has been behaving if he weren't on AP's team?

For people I'm willing to consider for a vote other than what's already been discussed:
-BWT
-FH (unlikely for me at this point)
-Vompatti

[DharmaHelper]

That is a good point about bwt.

[DharmaHelper]

That is a good point about bwt.
You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

Hey it's like 1am cut me some slack yo.
You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

[DFaraday]

Dom, in my experience Vomp does whatever he wants regardless of alignment. I'd want something more conclusive regarding him before I feel comfortable voting him. And just remember Vomp, if you are bad, you're going to reap just what you sow. You're going to reap just what you sow.

[Dom]

Dom, in my experience Vomp does whatever he wants regardless of alignment. I'd want something more conclusive regarding him before I feel comfortable voting him. And just remember Vomp, if you are bad, you're going to reap just what you sow. You're going to reap just what you sow.

These were my thoughts too... but I wanted to hear others' opinions as well. I don't think I've, very often--maybe once or twice-- seen Vomps play a game where he doesn't behave like this.

You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

[Nevinera]

It's late, but something just occurred to me.

Russ definitely met have seen APs post before the edit, and he quoted the changed text *before it was changed*.

Here is the original unedited text via mp:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 135#p51135

Here is APs post, look at the time stamps!
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 067#p51067

I think the odds are very very strong that Russ is on APs team.
Technically, there may have been two edits (stop outing yourself, then add lyrics),
But I don't think there was time in the two minutes between ap and Russ to notice, fix, and then post.
I think Russ posted his inane quoting post purely to cover up for APs edit.

[Nevinera]

Oh, the post even says it was edited one time in total.
Which means that there is no way Russ could have quoted what he did without editing the contents of APs post in his quote box.
I think that's about as close to proof as we are likely to get.

[Nevinera]

I'm all for lynching redacted, but there's no way Zodac could have expected a Russ lynch, so I think getting him first would be advisable. Unless someone can find a logical hole in my reasoning? It is pretty late.

[Nevinera]

Damnit, he edited two posts >.<

You can probably disregard my recent posts.
Though if mp is willing to tell us the original content of APs second post there's a chance it'd be interesting.

Sorry, it's late like I said.
Not a good baby night.

[bea]

OK - I'm trying to wrap my head around everything that's been said today. I'm sure I'll miss something, but I think some good discussion has happened today. Please don't tl:dr this - I know there's a lot here, but a lot happened since I posted last...

1) I see some people have mentioned the idea that SVS was the intended target based on the theory that the kill had not been redirected. I'm not sure how they came to that conculsion though because looking at the way the night post is writ, I originally took it as Nev was the intended target, but svs was the one who ended up catching the bullet so to speak. Even as I re-read it, it feels to me that the svs kill was more of an afterthought than an intended thing. Are we assuming the Nev attempt was for story telling? Am I missing something here? Another thing I thought is no one seems to be wondering about how the manipulaters got two kills? Was this something to do with the chaos or do we maybe think someone on that team got the plazmid and used it? Or was it part of being in rapture? I need help trying to figure this out.

Night 1: Dream Your Troubles Away

Nevinera was sleeping soundly on a bench in Arcadia Tea Garden when an unknown assailant walked up from behind and shot him in the back of the head.

The echo of the gunshot could be heard throughout Rapture.

A few hours later, another gunshot was heard. Two kills? Some players wondered. What a dangerous place! The only thing to do was to go back to sleep, or continue sleeping, and await the morning.

It turns out S~V~S was meandering around the Farmer's Market when she was suddenly shot in the back of the head as well. And she never even got to see if they were selling any New York Mets hats! (Answer: they weren't).

Somehow, Nevinera survived. He reached his hand and felt the back of his head. "Strange..." he observed.



Nevinera has survived a kill attempt by the Manipulators.
S~V~S has been killed by The Manipulators.

To be continued...

2) Oh, also - Nev! Any ideas how you survived the NK?

3) I just want to make sure I understand how this works with Zodac - so, he picks two people every night and the votes get split among them? So if Zodac picks player A and player B - Player A gets 10 votes, player B gets 2 votes - they both have 6? Then the forced tie means that Zodac can pick which one of the two get voted? What happens if one of those players doesn't get any votes? Say the top vote getter is player C or say neither player A or Player B get any votes, does Zodac's powers kick in then? This is where I'm getting confused.

4) Re: A Person. I agree that vompi might be worth a look here. Their actions in the thread are indeed odd given how A Person flipped. Would they be that zany as to goof off like that if they were on a team? Maybe. I could see it. Especially if they were thinking no one would likely ever supsect that they would be that out in the open. I'm worried though about what the likelyhood that MP randomed Lizzy, Vompi and Matty onto a baddie team together. It could happen I guess, just seems against the odds ya know? Rusti was named as another candidate but I think Nev retracted that? I was having a hard time following that argument tbh. Reading at work and then at 4 am when I get home doesn't make for the best thinkie processing at times. :/

As for the idea of "who would let someone on their team act like that." I'm not sure if it's a valid line of thinking. It's been my experience that unless a player is very new, they are going to act the way they are going to act and there's very little anyone can do about it bts. I mean, sure A Person's teammates could have bitched him up one end and down the other, but in the end, they aren't going to be able to stop him. Thred connections would be the strongest links to potential teammates, I'm just not sure how much more we're going to get from the thread that hasn't already been plucked.

5) Off the top of my head, I'm not really seeing anything I wouldn't expect to see out of Epi, DH, JC, FH or Dom. Don't know that that particularly means anything except that they are behaving the way I expect them to.

6) I'm pleasantly suprised with the points lizzy has made this time around. I'm in total agreement with whomever said they though lizzy was making good points for being insanifed. She's worked well with it too. The bit about figuring out who had the song curse was brilliant logic *and* brillant use of quotes to get your point across!! Good job there kid!

I think that's all I got for now? My vote is no where near decided and hopefully I don't waste all the time everyone's sleeping trying to unwind from work so I can get up early enough to think this one out. I don't have to work till after the lynch post and I'm shooting for being awake no later than 3 hours before post goes up for coffee, reading and re-reading.

7) I agree with the idea that teefies is being blendy at this stage as well. Not sure why this is, but the early vote, the not bothering to read, the missing the fact that he had a whole day left *to* vote, yea....my eyebrow is raised a bit by him as well. Come one teefies...be a champion!


lizzy! I saw your linkie thingie - the photos are STUNNING. Did you take them all? Really really amazing.
llama - MY BOOK CAME TODAY! I was showing it off to everyone at work! Can't wait to start reading it!!
FH and JC! *waves* Really - I've got nothing here - just feels like I've not seen you both in like a zillion years and I'm excited to see you guys.
Dom - I don't know if I've seen you since then, but thank you so much for your kind words on our wedding page, they ment the world to me. (I was reading everyone all the comments after the ceremony and dinner during our 'hang out and drink with my family' time. )


It's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you

[DisgruntledPorcupine]

Oh such a perfect day
You just keep me hangin on

Also idk who to vote I better not sleep till like 7.

[Bullzeye]

I think today the best thing I can do is to copy my previous vote. I just don't believe we can trust him to stick with the civs and think on the whole it's best if we just eliminate the threat outright.

*Votes X*


Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

I think you're bad. Why?
I'd be more threatened by a powerful indie if I were bad, too.

But, It's Just a perfect day.
You just keep me hanging on.

Actually I like indies a lot better when I'm bad. I'd be being nice to him, trying to subtly coax him to my side. Do you think you can trust him to stay with the civs?

Oh, it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you

I don't fully trust him, no. But do you think he would try to win with the civs if we try to lynch his ass every time we turn around? No.

But my main focus in my posting barrage is trying to avoid a potential Zodac assassination.

I don't think he's got any reason to want to ally with the civs after day one, never mind future lynches. I think worrying about Zodac every day is a great way to distract us and make us not lynch whoever is the top suspect. I'm not saying we should forget him entirely but we can't live in fear of him every day.

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I'd definitely want him to hold off on the crazy but at the same time a non-crazy AP is a suspicious AP. Someone acting completely differently to how they've played in the past is bound to draw suspicion, right? You'd kinda hope he played in his usual way so as to not get too much attention. Plus what Voldemort said about him probably not caring what his team said, that's also a good point.

1) If he actually just described the bulk of his powers accurately, he would have been modkilled for sure. That's not something you're allowed to do.
2) If he used some kind of 'chaos randomizer' like the role used to have, surely (a) it wouldn't have resulted in a bunch of people systematically receiving the same curse and (b) It wouldn't have resulted in NK's targeting both me and svs, two very active players at the time.

I also think it's very unlikely that MP would have left the secret roles remotely intact - not much point in secrets if everyone knows how they work, right?

You made some pretty good points in this post but I don't agree necessarily agree with point 1: If MP did modkill that guy for 'outlining his powers' then we'd know it was all true. Like Epig said at the end of Shawshank (regarding Elo's infodump), modkilling him would lend credit to his claims. Note that we don't know for certain he's Media, there's just a very large amount of evidence saying so. He has never claimed outright to be that role, nor has anyone claimed info to say he is. There's a slim chance this is all a coincidence and he's claiming a role he doesn't have for whatever reason (though this is very unlikely). MP modkilling that person would only prove he told the truth about his powers, and that they were indeed his powers.

Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

[bea]

Oh such a perfect day
You just keep me hangin on

Also idk who to vote I better not sleep till like 7.

dp - if you're going to be up - you might as well chat with me. - I get how there's been a lot of stuff in the thread, and I know how long passages full of circles make you not want to read it, but what are your thoughts right now? My big hecka long post was a fairly (in my opinion summary of the more important parts of what's happened. There's been lots of gibberish around that person, so yea, I've been filtering too.

Bullz makes some good points too - what do you think about those?

Play with us champion!

[bea]

ebwop

it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you.

You know - the more I have to post these lyrics the less I'm hating the song again. I hate the fact that it's been stuck in my head for 48 hours straight, but you know, we're playing the champions game, and for a long time, I thought I'd never even *be* in this game, so yea.... it's a perfect day and I am happy I've spent it with you. (Also - I've done waaaaaaaaaaay worse for a mafia game. stoopid loose my whole holiday weekend hunting for a fucking flag that didn't exist while my host spent his aniversery weekend doing whatever he does with his wife. *kicks wabbit* amirite JC?)

[Nevinera]

2) Oh, also - Nev! Any ideas how you survived the NK?

Maybe, but I'm being careful about the rules this game.

A side note, another possibility occurred to me about you-know-who:
He could be fetus, trying to draw lynches while unlynchable.
If we lynch him and nobody dies again, I lean that way.

[bea]

I think today the best thing I can do is to copy my previous vote. I just don't believe we can trust him to stick with the civs and think on the whole it's best if we just eliminate the threat outright.

*Votes X*


Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

I think you're bad. Why?
I'd be more threatened by a powerful indie if I were bad, too.

But, It's Just a perfect day.
You just keep me hanging on.

Actually I like indies a lot better when I'm bad. I'd be being nice to him, trying to subtly coax him to my side. Do you think you can trust him to stay with the civs?

Oh, it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you

I don't fully trust him, no. But do you think he would try to win with the civs if we try to lynch his ass every time we turn around? No.

But my main focus in my posting barrage is trying to avoid a potential Zodac assassination.

I don't think he's got any reason to want to ally with the civs after day one, never mind future lynches. I think worrying about Zodac every day is a great way to distract us and make us not lynch whoever is the top suspect. I'm not saying we should forget him entirely but we can't live in fear of him every day.

A Person was on a team.

What team would be crazy enough to let him do the shit he did?

That's what is on my mind.

I'd definitely want him to hold off on the crazy but at the same time a non-crazy AP is a suspicious AP. Someone acting completely differently to how they've played in the past is bound to draw suspicion, right? You'd kinda hope he played in his usual way so as to not get too much attention. Plus what Voldemort said about him probably not caring what his team said, that's also a good point.

1) If he actually just described the bulk of his powers accurately, he would have been modkilled for sure. That's not something you're allowed to do.
2) If he used some kind of 'chaos randomizer' like the role used to have, surely (a) it wouldn't have resulted in a bunch of people systematically receiving the same curse and (b) It wouldn't have resulted in NK's targeting both me and svs, two very active players at the time.

I also think it's very unlikely that MP would have left the secret roles remotely intact - not much point in secrets if everyone knows how they work, right?

You made some pretty good points in this post but I don't agree necessarily agree with point 1: If MP did modkill that guy for 'outlining his powers' then we'd know it was all true. Like Epig said at the end of Shawshank (regarding Elo's infodump), modkilling him would lend credit to his claims. Note that we don't know for certain he's Media, there's just a very large amount of evidence saying so. He has never claimed outright to be that role, nor has anyone claimed info to say he is. There's a slim chance this is all a coincidence and he's claiming a role he doesn't have for whatever reason (though this is very unlikely). MP modkilling that person would only prove he told the truth about his powers, and that they were indeed his powers.

Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

I agree with lots of what you have to say here. I would totally be willing to give him the benifit of the doubt. I get why he may hate the civs after day 1, but he did kinda bring some of it on himself. I would think that maybe he might be willing to work with us. Ultimately - my issue is that at some point he is going to have to pick a side. And he's going to pick whatever side he picks. Heck - given the fact that he said he could chose *roles* to not be chaosed and he chose an indi and a baddie, makes me think he already made the choice. I mean, he could have chose 2 civ roles to leave alone.

All indi's eventually have to pick a side if they want to survive. And the side they are going to pick 9 times out of 10 is going to be the side they think they have the most likelyhood of winning with. *Most* indi's as I've seen played keep it as neutral as possible for as long as possible so that a) no one lynches them and b) no one NK's them.

Here again - I know it's a tale I've told often, but it's a cautionary tale I have to tell again, the first time I ever played an indi role I was a civ recrutied to the the indi cause. I was a newish player and I gained bts with the awesomely awesome lorab. She had played the whole game alligned with the civs. We got down to the pretty much final vote. There was 1 baddie left, us (2) and 2 civs. At the very last second, she decided that the baddie left alive played a hell of an awesome game through all sorts of trials and tribulations (and really that player did) and my mentor, lorab - said - *we* control the vote. If we vote for the baddie she goes and the civ wins, if we vote for a civ, the baddie gets the NK and she wins. I want the baddie to win. (I'm paraphrasing lots - and I *did* agree with her re: the baddie fought her heart out.) And in the final hour we sold those last 2 civs down the river. Pretty much because we could and because we thought the baddie "deserved it" more than the two remaining civs.

Long story longer - I want to give him the benifit of the doubt. But I need to see more from him telling me he's working for our side. I've not seen that yet. I've seen him try to claim credit for the A person modkill, but I think that's pretty much been proved that's because he edited (and how is that even possible btw? I've still not been able to wrap my head around that. I thought only mods and hosts were able to edit mafia threads? I keep meaning to check to see if I could edit a post and keep forgetting....) and not because he didn't fullfill his curse. I think the fact that so many of us have been able to be ok with the ebwop - and still not be modkilled is proof enough of that - I mean, if the fact that MP didn't post the unedited version of A Person's post wasn't proof enough.

I also - after all this - want to say bullz - I agree with your disagreement about the whole "MP would have modkilled him." That reasoning makes perfect sense to me.

linki - thank you for posting - because I forgot this:

It's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you.

*now off to look at what fetus's role is again.

[bea]

omg - I finally remembered to look up - I soooo didn't know we had an edit button in this thread!!!


I really really though only mods and hosts could edit in mafia threads. lol.

[bea]

MP! Is it because we are champions and we should be able to show restraint? Or is it because I'm a nub and everyone always could edit?

[Nevinera]

You made some pretty good points in this post but I don't agree necessarily agree with point 1: If MP did modkill that guy for 'outlining his powers' then we'd know it was all true. Like Epig said at the end of Shawshank (regarding Elo's infodump), modkilling him would lend credit to his claims. Note that we don't know for certain he's Media, there's just a very large amount of evidence saying so. He has never claimed outright to be that role, nor has anyone claimed info to say he is. There's a slim chance this is all a coincidence and he's claiming a role he doesn't have for whatever reason (though this is very unlikely). MP modkilling that person would only prove he told the truth about his powers, and that they were indeed his powers.

Weekenders on our own
It's such fun

I think that mp would do it, if he told us his real powers. Sure, he'd be verifying that those were them, but the guy would be dead, so that wouldn't matter so much.

You can't just let people go off describing their role in full - there's no difference between describing your powers in detail and outing yourself.

Mp mod killing him would also directly tell us what role he was, according to the example of AP, so the fact that he'd be 'verifying' what redacted said seems almost incidental.

[Dom]

OK - I'm trying to wrap my head around everything that's been said today. I'm sure I'll miss something, but I think some good discussion has happened today. Please don't tl:dr this - I know there's a lot here, but a lot happened since I posted last...

1) I see some people have mentioned the idea that SVS was the intended target based on the theory that the kill had not been redirected. I'm not sure how they came to that conculsion though because looking at the way the night post is writ, I originally took it as Nev was the intended target, but svs was the one who ended up catching the bullet so to speak. Even as I re-read it, it feels to me that the svs kill was more of an afterthought than an intended thing. Are we assuming the Nev attempt was for story telling? Am I missing something here? Another thing I thought is no one seems to be wondering about how the manipulaters got two kills? Was this something to do with the chaos or do we maybe think someone on that team got the plazmid and used it? Or was it part of being in rapture? I need help trying to figure this out.

Night 1: Dream Your Troubles Away

Nevinera was sleeping soundly on a bench in Arcadia Tea Garden when an unknown assailant walked up from behind and shot him in the back of the head.

The echo of the gunshot could be heard throughout Rapture.

A few hours later, another gunshot was heard. Two kills? Some players wondered. What a dangerous place! The only thing to do was to go back to sleep, or continue sleeping, and await the morning.

It turns out S~V~S was meandering around the Farmer's Market when she was suddenly shot in the back of the head as well. And she never even got to see if they were selling any New York Mets hats! (Answer: they weren't).

Somehow, Nevinera survived. He reached his hand and felt the back of his head. "Strange..." he observed.



Nevinera has survived a kill attempt by the Manipulators.
S~V~S has been killed by The Manipulators.

To be continued...

I took it as two separate kills, but I could see it the way you're describing now.

Dom - I don't know if I've seen you since then, but thank you so much for your kind words on our wedding page, they ment the world to me. (I was reading everyone all the comments after the ceremony and dinner during our 'hang out and drink with my family' time. ) It's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you

:3 It's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you

Bea, I also think that the edit button is available because MP forgot to make the new sub forum uneditable.

[Dom]

Oh, the post even says it was edited one time in total.
Which means that there is no way Russ could have quoted what he did without editing the contents of APs post in his quote box.
I think that's about as close to proof as we are likely to get.

I don't really understand what you were saying, but it seems that you've retracted it?

You just keep me hanging on
You just keep me hanging on

[bea]

ebwop - this damn curse:

it's such a perfect day
I'm glad I spent it with you....


part 2 - you just keep me hanging on...
you just keep me haaaannnging on. (yea - now I'm typing it like my hed is singing it)


linki - dom - thanks for the clarification re: editing. :politegiggle: (see - we need that smiley here) - stilly host. or smart host - WE ARE CHAMPIONS - WE SHOULD RESIST TEMPTATION.

and also -dom - IDK how I'm seeing that kill - that's pretty much my problem - I am hecka confused as to how the manipulaters appeared to get 2 kills? I described up there as how I read it - the first time. As SVS "caught the bullet" - then the second read said to me "somehow they gained an extra kill maybe?" and now I"m all "holly fuck!! how did they gain an extra kill?"

you just keep me hanging on...
you just keep me hanging on...