It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia [END]

[Sloonei]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

[Lunalee]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

[Sloonei]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

No. One of the scenarios is that juliets (as the cop) is the only power role in the game. It would be perfectly safe for a mafia member (you) to fake claim as the doublevoter because you know that there is no such role in the game, but there's also no way for anyone to confirm or deny it.

[Lunalee]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

No. One of the scenarios is that juliets (as the cop) is the only power role in the game. It would be perfectly safe for a mafia member (you) to fake claim as the doublevoter because you know that there is no such role in the game, but there's also no way for anyone to confirm or deny it.
But you're assuming that juliets could actually be a 2-shot tracker, but instead claimed one-shot cop, right? Because that's the only other option.

Posting this chart again for reference. It's possible that either or both teams have a doublevoter. It's also possible there are no doublevoters at all.

[Lunalee]

oops, trying that again:

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

No. One of the scenarios is that juliets (as the cop) is the only power role in the game. It would be perfectly safe for a mafia member (you) to fake claim as the doublevoter because you know that there is no such role in the game, but there's also no way for anyone to confirm or deny it.

But you're assuming that juliets could actually be a 2-shot tracker, but instead claimed one-shot cop, right? Because that's the only other option.

Posting this chart again for reference. It's possible that either or both teams have a doublevoter. It's also possible there are no doublevoters at all.

[Sloonei]

Row A.

[Lunalee]

Just realized the chart is supposed to be read in columns AND rows. You can ignore my previous question [mention]Sloonei[/mention]

linki, yeah

[novaselinenever]

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

[juliets]

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

How so? I'm not seeing it as a slip but maybe I'm just not seeing it.

[Sloonei]

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

Elaborate.

[Mongoose]

And I'll need you to elaborate on that Colin read more. You say you don't like his eagerness to suspect you. Why not? And why do you characterize it as "eagerness"? Lunalee

I've given you my opinion on Colin. I would like to hear what you think of him.

I'm not satisfied with the details you've given to justify your opinion.

I have him as very slight mafia read right now.

Dunya also strongly suspected colin before she was targeted. I could see that as a self-defense kill if she was after too many of the scum team.

what makes you view him as a slight mafia read?

Lack of content that makes me civilian read him. Nothing Colin has said has makes me feel too strongly one way or another about him. That in itself is concerning.

And I'll need you to elaborate on that Colin read more. You say you don't like his eagerness to suspect you. Why not? And why do you characterize it as "eagerness"? Lunalee

Too blendy?

[Mongoose]

I can't quite wrap my head around why the double voter would claim. Aren't you then forced to use your double vote that day or die that night? What am I missing (I am dead tired from work so I'm probably just brain dead trying to think about this).

I suggested it after you first claimed because a doublevoter would corroborate your claim. At the time my reasoning was that it was more valuable to have a potential confirmation of your claim than it would be to have a single doublevote. But then I decided I believe you regardless, and a doublevote claim can't be given nearly the same weight as a cop claim.

@Lunalee why did you claim? Walk us through the thought process that went into that decision. This is not an accusatory question, I just want to know what exactly prompted the decision.

1. I thought it might be helpful to have that out there to potentially town-firm two players
2. No one knows when I use my one-shot or if I've already used it
3. It's not a huge loss to town if I get night-killed because of it. If you guys can work together on lynches, you don't need a double-voter.

I’m still pretty surprised the idea to role claim the double voter role was put out there. Seems like a dangerous prospect.

[Mongoose]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

If I was the civ double voter and someone else claimed; I don’t think I’d out them. I’d let them take their chances at night instead of me.

[novaselinenever]

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

How so? I'm not seeing it as a slip but maybe I'm just not seeing it.

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

Elaborate.

Hmm false alarm. I'm dumb, and Luna can't read

[Mongoose]

Just realized the chart is supposed to be read in columns AND rows. You can ignore my previous question @Sloonei

linki, yeah

I literally just read this matrix correctly too ha

[juliets]

To refresh: the only possible setups in the matrix with a cop are mafia roleblocker and 1-shot town doublevoter, or all vanilla. If it's the latter, then a mafia member could easily claim doublevoter because they know they can't be counter-claimed. If it's the former then Luna could easily be telling the truth. But there's absolutely no way for us to know right now.

so your two options are: both juliets and I are scum and coordinated the claims, or both juliets and I are town and are telling the truth.

No. It's entirely possible that juliets is telling the truth and you are lying.

How would that fit with the matrix you posted then? If I were lying and juliets and I were not both scum, someone could have counter-claimed. Correct?

If I was the civ double voter and someone else claimed; I don’t think I’d out them. I’d let them take their chances at night instead of me.

Yes I would do the same.

[Sloonei]

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

How so? I'm not seeing it as a slip but maybe I'm just not seeing it.

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

Elaborate.

Hmm false alarm. I'm dumb, and Luna can't read

What did you think you saw?

[novaselinenever]

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

How so? I'm not seeing it as a slip but maybe I'm just not seeing it.

Is this a slip I'm seeing?

Elaborate.

Hmm false alarm. I'm dumb, and Luna can't read

What did you think you saw?

Her using the last line as the only compatible one with herself to attribute a role to Juliets.

[Mongoose]

I’m off to a double feature now. I’ll be around tomorrow all day until it’s time for boxing.

[Sloonei]

Luna’s misreading of the matrix is something we need to factor into our reads of her one way or another. She seems to have been reading it veryically only, instead of both horizontally and vertically. Her initial stance was that in order for juliets to be the cop, there would need to be a doublevoter in the game. She then asserted that if one of them is lying, both of them are lying.

It's possible for her to have misread the chart as either alignment. If she did genuinely misread as scum, her doublevote claim becomes riskier. Right now I think the easiest explanation to her situation is to simply believe her claim and that she thought the matrix was only supposed to be read vertically. Of course it’s possible the whole thing is an act, but that strikes me as too convoluted a plan to be viable.
Town lean on luna foe the moment.

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

[novaselinenever]

That's actually a very good point. It could have been a townslip as much as a scumslip, even more so.

[novaselinenever]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

Lol what?

[Sloonei]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

Lol what?

Make a rainbow list

[novaselinenever]

[VOTE: nova] aubergine

Lol what?

Make a rainbow list

Can't ask someone for one without voting them up?

[novaselinenever]

Juliets
Sloonei
Llama
Mongoose
Luna
Colin


Mac

[juliets]

Juliets
Sloonei
Llama
Mongoose
Luna
Colin


Mac

nova are you saying Mac is at the bottom of your list by far or is he in black (I can't see the color real well) because you are saying you can't read him?

[Sloonei]

Juliets
Sloonei
Llama
Mongoose
Luna
Colin


Mac

Why is Luna still down there?

[juliets]

We've really let up on conversation. Dunya would be yelling at us right now.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] have you already stated your case on nova? If so was it today or do I need to go back farther? If not, can you sum up what you are seeing? I see the issue with Mac (depending on how he answers my question) but what else is there?

I have to work all day tomorrow and will probably have to vote in the morning in case I'm not back by EOD. I need to converse with some people!

[novaselinenever]

Juliets
Sloonei
Llama
Mongoose
Luna
Colin


Mac

nova are you saying Mac is at the bottom of your list by far or is he in black (I can't see the color real well) because you are saying you can't read him?

By far (it's a very darkish red). Because I know in my bones that he's bad lol.

[Sloonei]

We've really let up on conversation. Dunya would be yelling at us right now.

@Sloonei have you already stated your case on nova? If so was it today or do I need to go back farther? If not, can you sum up what you are seeing? I see the issue with Mac (depending on how he answers my question) but what else is there?

I have to work all day tomorrow and will probably have to vote in the morning in case I'm not back by EOD. I need to converse with some people!

I have no case on nova

[novaselinenever]

Juliets
Sloonei
Llama
Mongoose
Luna
Colin


Mac

Why is Luna still down there?

'Cause she might very well have faked that slip. She realized her own mistake rather quickly, and on her own.

Not enough to clear her. She's still very much a suspect by all accounts.

[novaselinenever]

Haven't really felt good about her in her interactions today. She's all over the place, and her defense is pretty sloppy.

[juliets]

Juliets
Sloonei
Llama
Mongoose
Luna
Colin


Mac

nova are you saying Mac is at the bottom of your list by far or is he in black (I can't see the color real well) because you are saying you can't read him?

By far (it's a very darkish red). Because I know in my bones that he's bad lol.

Thanks! I'll go back into your ISO and read it again just to make sure I understand the reasons. Maybe I'll take a look at Assassination Classroom where he was bad and compare it. I'm just not seeing it.

[juliets]

We've really let up on conversation. Dunya would be yelling at us right now.

@Sloonei have you already stated your case on nova? If so was it today or do I need to go back farther? If not, can you sum up what you are seeing? I see the issue with Mac (depending on how he answers my question) but what else is there?

I have to work all day tomorrow and will probably have to vote in the morning in case I'm not back by EOD. I need to converse with some people!

I have no case on nova

lol, ok.

[novaselinenever]

We're in a very weird place tbh. I'm feeling a lot, and very little at the same time. It's annoying.

[novaselinenever]

My tinfoil suspicion is llama person. Their contribution and presence are monotone, I've find everything they've done so far is in line with the thread. Not a lot of originality or risk.

[novaselinenever]

The tangent about the no lynch votes was exaggerated.

[Sloonei]

I’ve felt very good about llama since he came in, but I haven’t looked at him under a microscope or anything.

[Sloonei]

Luna, mac, and colin feel like they could all flip bad but I’m not exceptionally confident about any one of them.

Mongoose is also still kinda there.

[novaselinenever]

Luna, mac, and colin feel like they could all flip bad but I’m not exceptionally confident about any one of them.

Mongoose is also still kinda there.

That's exactly what I mean by "feeling a lot, and very little". We're in a very weird place.

[Sloonei]

Luna, mac, and colin feel like they could all flip bad but I’m not exceptionally confident about any one of them.

Mongoose is also still kinda there.

That's exactly what I mean by "feeling a lot, and very little". We're in a very weird place.

I’m gonna ISO all three of them soon to regroup my thoughts. I recommend we all do something similar. I trust you and juliets, and we seem to be the only three here. Now would be a good opportunity to do some good independent hunting and see what we all come up with.

[novaselinenever]

That sounds good. I'm game.

[novaselinenever]

I’d lynch anybody tbh. I’m a big lynch hoor

Sorry for multiposting, but things keep ocurring to me that I want to get down. If Mongoose's no lynch vote was indeed accidental, and I believe that it was, then we can deduce nothing about her alignment from it. I still don't think she looks good, but thta is one piece of evidence that is off the table.

On the other hand, I maintain that intentionally voting No Lynch is an anti-town move. I said before that I did not believe both baddies would vote No Lynch in concert, so if Colin turns out to be bad, Mongoose wouldn't be, and vice versa. That logic no longer holds since one of the votes was unintentional. I think this makes Colin look worse, as the only player to actively choose no lynch. His unwillingness to participate very much is not helping him, either.

Voting no lynch is not ideal, but I’m not going to vote for someone when I really couldn’t justify it to myself ... that’s what scum do.

[novaselinenever]

I feel worse about Colin after a quick re-read. I think he's taking advantage of that "it's just old colin messing around", and miking it. He dumbed down when he started to catch some heat. He then switched up to shitting on everything mode with an exercise (what's the purpose of it? what did he gain from it?) that is yet to be finished. The only thing he has going for him is the doubt that comes with "would scum Colin do this" which isn't much.

[juliets]

Sorry I had to cll my mom. llama has gone to the movies per discord. I wish Colin and Mac would come on. I'll start by taking a look at Colin.

[novaselinenever]

That no-lynch is absolutely disgusting lol. Civ Colin doesn't vote no lynch, I've seen him vote someone up for a bet and getting them lynched. I haven't known Colin to be shy about his vote.

The only explanation I can vibe with is scum!colin going for it to fuck with us

[juliets]

Does anyone know how true this statement is?

Mac really does get me.

As a reminder — when I’m scum I’m very careful and deliberate about what I do. When I roll town ... not so much. I do dumb shit all the time and I admit it. I think this is a verbatim defense I offered in Outpost, where I was a bumbling townie. I am pretty much always a bumbling townie these days.

[juliets]

Doth he protest too much?

I may be catching up, but I am still clueless!!!

[juliets]

Does a scum Colin take on a civ dunya as an adversary in the thread? This just doesn't seem prudent.