Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

dunya, basic question:

Would you expect a civilian Jay to fully trust you under these circumstances

no, absolutely not. quite the contrary.

How would you expect a civilian Jay to explore that distrust?

[dunya]

juliets: from what i understand, her case on me was how she didn't like how i decreased my nova suspicions right before he was killed. if i wanted to kill nova as a mafioso, i assure you i wouldn't do something so out of the ordinary right before i kill him (wifom, i know, but i don't do wifom as a mafioso). she then didn't like how i controlled the narrative how nova must have "protected" me n3. he was the jailkeeper. a jail keeper protects and block, sure. but since nova didn't express any suspicions towards me, i feel like it was natural for me to assume his intent was a protection and not a "block". how he handled me after doesn't indicate any suspicion towards me either. mata seemed to disagree with me presenting those theories as "facts" and felt like it was because i knew nova's role. i didn't. i even hinted my role failed n3 and it went undisputed by nova.

[dunya]

dunya, basic question:

Would you expect a civilian Jay to fully trust you under these circumstances

no, absolutely not. quite the contrary.

How would you expect a civilian Jay to explore that distrust?

as you do every game we clash as civs: assemble the team to come for my head.

do you expect me to trust you fully?

[dunya]

i'm concerned daisy has kind of dropped off activity wise after everyone's sort of unanimous town read on her.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

dunya, basic question:

Would you expect a civilian Jay to fully trust you under these circumstances

no, absolutely not. quite the contrary.

How would you expect a civilian Jay to explore that distrust?

as you do every game we clash as civs: assemble the team to come for my head.

do you expect me to trust you fully?

No, noy under these circumstances. I get your gripes and am unsurpised by them. I am trying to help you orient to a different point of view when considering what I have done and am doing regarding you — not to “manipulate”, but because I know there is good to be found in me if it is being sought out. I am not Darth Vader.

Lynching me could ruin this game and I want to prevent that. I can’t do much while I proctor exams beyond make these little posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

And if Luna’s phantom vote is considered, I’m tied for the tally lead right now.

[juliets]

i'm concerned daisy has kind of dropped off activity wise after everyone's sort of unanimous town read on her.

I think I expressed concern about this same thing earlier (either that or I thought it). The Jack stuff was so strong but the drop off concerns me. [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention] I'm alerting you because you might want to respond to this. Also, how do you feel about the mata stuff? I notice you came in and commented but did not comment on this most recent information.

[Lunalee]

@Lunalee Do you have gripes about speed? Or are you just saying his votes look bad?

[juliets]

I can't find a good way to get to the votes. Has anyone figured out how to do this without just scrolling through the thread?

[Kites]

I can't find a good way to get to the votes. Has anyone figured out how to do this without just scrolling through the thread?

ummm yes i scrolled through the thread to make this...

updated version. fixed mistakes pointed out last time

Spoiler: show

*didn’t use vote tags but mentioned who to vote (timeline placement might be slightly inaccurate)
**didn’t use vote tags and didn’t mention who to vote (timeline placement likely very inaccurate/can’t be determined)

Day 1 votes

Spoiler: show

Kites - dunya
Lunalee - nutella
MacDougall - JaggedJimmyJay
nutella - MacDougall**
Lunalee - JaggedJimmyJay
nutella - Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - novaselinenever
nutella - Elohcin*
spacedaisy - Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay - dunya
speedchuck - JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall - dunya
JaggedJimmyJay - speedchuck
nutella - JaggedJimmyJay
Kites - Lunalee
juliets - Jackofhearts2005
Lunalee - JaggedJimmyJay
nutella - novaselinenever
MacDougall - JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall - nutella
juliets - Spacedaisy
Neverwhere - JaggedJimmyJay
juliets - nutella
juliets roleclaims stump
MacDougall - Long Con
MacDougall - nutella
MacDougall - JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall - juliets*
MacDougall - Spacedaisy
MacDougall - Matahari*
Neverwhere - JaggedJimmyJay
Neverwhere - Jackofhearts2005
MacDougall - Kites
MacDougall - Lunalee
nutella - nijuukyugou
Neverwhere - speedchuck

Final votes
MacDougall - dunya, Long Con, nutella, Spacedaisy, juliets, Matahari, Kites, Lunalee

Neverwhere - JaggedJimmyJay, Jackofhearts2005, speedchuck

nutella - MacDougall, Dragon D. Luffy, Elohcin, novaselinenever, nijuukyugou

no vote - leetic, reywas, Neverwhere

———————————————

Day 3 votes

Spoiler: show

nijuukyugou - JaggedJimmyJay
Leetic - novaselinenever
Jackofhearts2005 - Long Con
Jackofhearts2005 - juliets*
Jackofhearts2005 - Kites
novaselinenever - dunya
Long Con - Jackofhearts2005
Jackofhearts2005 - Dragon D. Luffy
Jackofhearts2005 - Matahari*
Jackofhearts2005 - Spacedaisy*
Jackofhearts2005 - Elohcin*
Jackofhearts2005 - JaggedJimmyJay*
Jackofhearts2005 - Leetic** (no idea when)
Jackofhearts2005 - nijuukyugou** (no posts on day 3)

Final votes
Jackofhearts2005 - Long Con, juliets*, Kites, Dragon D. Luffy, Matahari*, Spacedaisy*, Elohcin*, JaggedJimmyJay*, leetic**, nijuukyugou**

leetic - novaselinenever

novaselinenever - dunya

no vote - reywas, Neverwhere, speedchuck

————————————————

Day 4 votes

Spoiler: show

Leetic - dunya
Leetic - Lunalee
Lunalee - novaselinenever*
nijuukyugou - Leetic
Lunalee - Elohcin*
nijuukyugou - JaggedJimmyJay
Lunalee - Kites
nijuukyugou - juliets
nijuukyugou - Matahari
nijuukyugou - Dragon D. Luffy
nijuukyugou - Long Con**
nijuukyugou - Spacedaisy**

Final votes

nijuukyugou - Leetic, JaggedJimmyJay, juliets, Matahari, Dragon D. Luffy, Long Con**, Spacedaisy**

Leetic - dunya, Lunalee, novaselinenever

Lunalee - Elohcin*, Kites

no vote - speedchuck, nijuukyugou, Neverwhere

————————————

Day 5 votes

Spoiler: show

Lunalee - JaggedJimmyJay
Lunalee - dunya
Lunalee - Elohcin*
Leetic - speedchuck**
Leetic - JaggedJimmyJay
JaggedJimmyJay - Long Con
Leetic - juliets
dunya - Matahari
Leetic - Lunalee
dunya - Dragon D. Luffy
Leetic - Long Con
Elohcin - Kites
Dragon D. Luffy - Spacedaisy

Final votes

Leetic - speedchuck**, JaggedJimmyJay, juliets, Lunalee, Long Con

Lunalee - dunya, Elohcin

dunya - Matahari, Dragon D. Luffy

Elohcin - Kites

Dragon D. Luffy - Spacedaisy

and of course, if you want to see the reasoning and context behind the votes, you must scroll through the thread

[juliets]

I can't find a good way to get to the votes. Has anyone figured out how to do this without just scrolling through the thread?

ummm yes i scrolled through the thread to make this...

updated version. fixed mistakes pointed out last time

Spoiler: show

*didn’t use vote tags but mentioned who to vote (timeline placement might be slightly inaccurate)
**didn’t use vote tags and didn’t mention who to vote (timeline placement likely very inaccurate/can’t be determined)

Day 1 votes

Spoiler: show

Kites - dunya
Lunalee - nutella
MacDougall - JaggedJimmyJay
nutella - MacDougall**
Lunalee - JaggedJimmyJay
nutella - Dragon D. Luffy
speedchuck - novaselinenever
nutella - Elohcin*
spacedaisy - Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay - dunya
speedchuck - JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall - dunya
JaggedJimmyJay - speedchuck
nutella - JaggedJimmyJay
Kites - Lunalee
juliets - Jackofhearts2005
Lunalee - JaggedJimmyJay
nutella - novaselinenever
MacDougall - JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall - nutella
juliets - Spacedaisy
Neverwhere - JaggedJimmyJay
juliets - nutella
juliets roleclaims stump
MacDougall - Long Con
MacDougall - nutella
MacDougall - JaggedJimmyJay
MacDougall - juliets*
MacDougall - Spacedaisy
MacDougall - Matahari*
Neverwhere - JaggedJimmyJay
Neverwhere - Jackofhearts2005
MacDougall - Kites
MacDougall - Lunalee
nutella - nijuukyugou
Neverwhere - speedchuck

Final votes
MacDougall - dunya, Long Con, nutella, Spacedaisy, juliets, Matahari, Kites, Lunalee

Neverwhere - JaggedJimmyJay, Jackofhearts2005, speedchuck

nutella - MacDougall, Dragon D. Luffy, Elohcin, novaselinenever, nijuukyugou

no vote - leetic, reywas, Neverwhere

———————————————

Day 3 votes

Spoiler: show

nijuukyugou - JaggedJimmyJay
Leetic - novaselinenever
Jackofhearts2005 - Long Con
Jackofhearts2005 - juliets*
Jackofhearts2005 - Kites
novaselinenever - dunya
Long Con - Jackofhearts2005
Jackofhearts2005 - Dragon D. Luffy
Jackofhearts2005 - Matahari*
Jackofhearts2005 - Spacedaisy*
Jackofhearts2005 - Elohcin*
Jackofhearts2005 - JaggedJimmyJay*
Jackofhearts2005 - Leetic** (no idea when)
Jackofhearts2005 - nijuukyugou** (no posts on day 3)

Final votes
Jackofhearts2005 - Long Con, juliets*, Kites, Dragon D. Luffy, Matahari*, Spacedaisy*, Elohcin*, JaggedJimmyJay*, leetic**, nijuukyugou**

leetic - novaselinenever

novaselinenever - dunya

no vote - reywas, Neverwhere, speedchuck

————————————————

Day 4 votes

Spoiler: show

Leetic - dunya
Leetic - Lunalee
Lunalee - novaselinenever*
nijuukyugou - Leetic
Lunalee - Elohcin*
nijuukyugou - JaggedJimmyJay
Lunalee - Kites
nijuukyugou - juliets
nijuukyugou - Matahari
nijuukyugou - Dragon D. Luffy
nijuukyugou - Long Con**
nijuukyugou - Spacedaisy**

Final votes

nijuukyugou - Leetic, JaggedJimmyJay, juliets, Matahari, Dragon D. Luffy, Long Con**, Spacedaisy**

Leetic - dunya, Lunalee, novaselinenever

Lunalee - Elohcin*, Kites

no vote - speedchuck, nijuukyugou, Neverwhere

————————————

Day 5 votes

Spoiler: show

Lunalee - JaggedJimmyJay
Lunalee - dunya
Lunalee - Elohcin*
Leetic - speedchuck**
Leetic - JaggedJimmyJay
JaggedJimmyJay - Long Con
Leetic - juliets
dunya - Matahari
Leetic - Lunalee
dunya - Dragon D. Luffy
Leetic - Long Con
Elohcin - Kites
Dragon D. Luffy - Spacedaisy

Final votes

Leetic - speedchuck**, JaggedJimmyJay, juliets, Lunalee, Long Con

Lunalee - dunya, Elohcin

dunya - Matahari, Dragon D. Luffy

Elohcin - Kites

Dragon D. Luffy - Spacedaisy

and of course, if you want to see the reasoning and context behind the votes, you must scroll through the thread

Thanks kites! I don't know how I didn't see this.

[juliets]

Lunalee Do you have gripes about speed? Or are you just saying his votes look bad?

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] can you speak to why you didn't vote on days 1,3, and 4 (I think those are the days)? I'm assuming thats what Luna means by your votes looking bad. If you already shared this and I've forgotten just point me back to your post.

[speedchuck]

Lunalee Do you have gripes about speed? Or are you just saying his votes look bad?

@speedchuck can you speak to why you didn't vote on days 1,3, and 4 (I think those are the days)? I'm assuming thats what Luna means by your votes looking bad. If you already shared this and I've forgotten just point me back to your post.

I'm pretty sure I voted D1.

3 and 4 both fell on the weekend, which isn't a good excuse or anything. I just got busy and didn't check in in time.

[juliets]

Lunalee Do you have gripes about speed? Or are you just saying his votes look bad?

speedchuck can you speak to why you didn't vote on days 1,3, and 4 (I think those are the days)? I'm assuming thats what Luna means by your votes looking bad. If you already shared this and I've forgotten just point me back to your post.

I'm pretty sure I voted D1.

3 and 4 both fell on the weekend, which isn't a good excuse or anything. I just got busy and didn't check in in time.

Ok, and yes, it's been established in previous games that you are not around much on the weekends. I didn't realize those days were weekend days (the all run together in my mind). So, I guess I don't understand Luna's claim that she doesn't like your votes.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention] is it the weekend non-votes that you didn't like? I would think you of all people would realize how busy he is on the weekends. Or was it his other votes? Or both? I'll give you something to copy and paste so you can answer each of those alternatives separately:

Didn't like his weekend non-votes:

Didn't like his other votes Day 1 and 5:

Didn't like any of his votes/non-votes:

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The mafia utility of a lie detector is of course limited. It isn't non-existent though, as it can help them to distinguish fake civilian role/action claims and build their game theory. Obviously a silencer like leetic is just about worthless as a civilian role anyway, so the setup does not care about these things.

I would lynch her. I'm not impressed by a vote on me based on my own voting record.

What I would most like to do today and will absolutely not be able to do is check the interactions of living pairs and find the most appropriate teams. Someone else might be able to help me out though. I don't need a huge ISO review post. I just want someone to check them out, come to a conclusion, and share that conclusion. Start with these interactions:

DDL/Elohcin
DDL/Luna
Luna/Elohcin

If you want, go beyond that. Add Neverwhere and all of the two-way interactions that she can be featured in. Figure out who makes sense as mafia teammates and who doesn't. That can help narrow things down a lot.

[juliets]

The mafia utility of a lie detector is of course limited. It isn't non-existent though, as it can help them to distinguish fake civilian role/action claims and build their game theory. Obviously a silencer like leetic is just about worthless as a civilian role anyway, so the setup does not care about these things.

I would lynch her. I'm not impressed by a vote on me based on my own voting record.

Jay who is "her"? And why are you talking about a lie detector. I feel like I missed something.

[speedchuck]

Luna is bad.

We planned in BTSC not to vote till the last second for reasons related to her role. That's why I missed voting earlier, and why she likely did too. Now she's shading me based on that?

Bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The mafia utility of a lie detector is of course limited. It isn't non-existent though, as it can help them to distinguish fake civilian role/action claims and build their game theory. Obviously a silencer like leetic is just about worthless as a civilian role anyway, so the setup does not care about these things.

I would lynch her. I'm not impressed by a vote on me based on my own voting record.

Jay who is "her"? And why are you talking about a lie detector. I feel like I missed something.

Luna. I had thought she had said something today about lie detection (within her curse), but now I don't see it.

Have I finally gone insane?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Did someone else say that? Was it the other game? Haha what the fuck is happening to me

[speedchuck]

The mafia utility of a lie detector is of course limited. It isn't non-existent though, as it can help them to distinguish fake civilian role/action claims and build their game theory. Obviously a silencer like leetic is just about worthless as a civilian role anyway, so the setup does not care about these things.

I would lynch her. I'm not impressed by a vote on me based on my own voting record.

Jay who is "her"? And why are you talking about a lie detector. I feel like I missed something.

Luna. I had thought she had said something today about lie detection (within her curse), but now I don't see it.

Have I finally gone insane?

'S not what she claimed privately.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't see it. I think I might have literally dreamed it.

Good grief

[juliets]

Luna is bad.

We planned in BTSC not to vote till the last second for reasons related to her role. That's why I missed voting earlier, and why she likely did too. Now she's shading me based on that?

Bad.

Oooooh I can see how that would be, given her role. I'll think about changing my vote to her. Elo and dunya voted for her yesterday which makes me a little iffy but maybe one or both of them were bussing.

[juliets]

I don't see it. I think I might have literally dreamed it.

Good grief

lol, I thought I had maybe skipped a page of posts!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Regardless of whatever that was, I have nothing to dissuade me from a Luna vote.

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Luna is bad.

We planned in BTSC not to vote till the last second for reasons related to her role. That's why I missed voting earlier, and why she likely did too. Now she's shading me based on that?

Bad.

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

[speedchuck]

speedchuck
juliets
Long Con
Spacedaisy
Kites

JaggedJimmyJay
dunya

Neverwhere
Dragon D. Luffy
Elochin
Lunalee


My POE/readthing. JJJ and Dunya are both capable of being scum. I've seen JJJ play on emotions before to win a match, so even as I want to believe that he wouldn't be a dick about the fake flip, I can't rule it out entirely. Dunya has no such clause, but looks mostly towny. I just can't rule her out at all.

Is there a reason to kick Neverwhere out of the POE?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Tbh I was already thinking of voting her before this post. Sure I think her post about Jack looks good on her but her recent apathy doesn't feel good to me. There is only so much apathy I can take as civilian based.

[juliets]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

Saying she is 80% sure of someone IS Mata being assertive. She is not a particularly assertive player.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is there a reason to kick Neverwhere out of the POE?

Not a good one

[Dragon D. Luffy]

But yeah speed's post is pretty damning. That's Luna straight up being shady.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention] whats your explanation for that? Is speed lieing or...

[juliets]

But yeah speed's post is pretty damning. That's Luna straight up being shady.

@Lunalee whats your explanation for that? Is speed lieing or...

DDL, she can't answer open ended questions very well because she is cursed today. She can only use words from her role description.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

Saying she is 80% sure of someone IS Mata being assertive. She is not a particularly assertive player.

While tieing Eloh in a poll with dunya, saying shes not sure about dunya and having only slightly lower percentages for the rest.

It's confusing, and an ability result shouldn't be confusing.

[speedchuck]

80% or more...

hrm.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

But yeah speed's post is pretty damning. That's Luna straight up being shady.

@Lunalee whats your explanation for that? Is speed lieing or...

DDL, she can't answer open ended questions very well because she is cursed today. She can only use words from her role description.

Oh.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like if Speed is mafia lieing that put Luna in a difficult situation. Your cursing may have set her up for a mislynch.

For all you complain about having an anti-town role you seem pretty trigger-happy about it.

[Lunalee]

Lunalee Do you have gripes about speed? Or are you just saying his votes look bad?

speedchuck can you speak to why you didn't vote on days 1,3, and 4 (I think those are the days)? I'm assuming thats what Luna means by your votes looking bad. If you already shared this and I've forgotten just point me back to your post.

I'm pretty sure I voted D1.

3 and 4 both fell on the weekend, which isn't a good excuse or anything. I just got busy and didn't check in in time.

Ok, and yes, it's been established in previous games that you are not around much on the weekends. I didn't realize those days were weekend days (the all run together in my mind). So, I guess I don't understand Luna's claim that she doesn't like your votes.

@Lunalee is it the weekend non-votes that you didn't like? I would think you of all people would realize how busy he is on the weekends. Or was it his other votes? Or both? I'll give you something to copy and paste so you can answer each of those alternatives separately:

Didn't like his weekend non-votes:

Didn't like his other votes Day 1 and 5:

Didn't like any of his votes/non-votes:

heart

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Well if Speed is straight up lieing then [mention]Lunalee[/mention] should post a

If he is telling the truth and the situation is more complicated than that then I wish you good luck with explaining it.

[dunya]

Don't buy any argument about Mata having a result on someone. If she had she would have been morr assertive.

Saying she is 80% sure of someone IS Mata being assertive. She is not a particularly assertive player.

i can't trust this based on the fact that i'm town. i also think eloh is town. if eloh is lynched and flips town, i'm going to look bad. when i am lynched and flip town, eloh is going to look bad. that's why i said this mata kill stinks, especially the timing of it after she said that 80% thing. this is a repeat of nutella in GG. i have no reason to believe she had a clear watch on eloh. i have no reason to believe she had a clear watch on me. as such, i'll treat her reads as reads and not role confirmations.

in a game like this, if i watched jay visit nova on night 5, i'll scream it. i won't be swayed by anything jay says.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

If Luna flips civ do we blame speed or Jay for it

Thats where I'm currently at

[dunya]

Well if Speed is straight up lieing then @Lunalee should post a

lying about what? i'm confused.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

[dunya]

If Luna flips civ do we blame speed or Jay for it

Thats where I'm currently at

tbf to jay, cursing luna was both speed and luna's idea, not his.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If Luna flips civ do we blame speed or Jay for it

Thats where I'm currently at

Or, you know, perhaps even you given your present vote.

[speedchuck]

Luna is now judging me for voting Neverwhere D1 and for the day 5 vote.

Luna and I voted for the same person day five.

So I guess it's just the D1 vote.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

If Speed and Jay are both mafia this is a stupid plan. No reason to put both their names on the line.

If just speed is mafia this is just opportunism. He saw Luna cursed and tried to get her lynched.

If just Jay is mafia then I guess he couldn't have seen this coming, just got lucky.

If neither is mafia and Luna is bad we are golden and Jay's action is just a mild invonvenience.

If all three are civs and it was just a misunderstanding from Luna then we are on the path to defeat and mafia is laughing at us in BTSC.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

To be fair to Luna, I'm not sure she would have brought up speedchuck's votes at all if I hadn't copy/pasted the player list and asked her to name the people with bad votes.

That doesn't account for the BTSC agreement speedchuck mentioned. Dunno what happened there.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

This makes speed look less good in this whole rationale.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Well if Speed is straight up lieing then @Lunalee should post a

lying about what? i'm confused.

Speed is accusing Luna of making a deal with speed in btsc and now accusing him of doing the thing she agreed with him before. Which would mean she is not being honest.