Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Elohcin]

alright...off to make breakfast. I will try ever so hard to get in here again before the lynch.

linki. I think she could a deep wolf as you call it.

[juliets]

I hate to see all this stirring up here at the end. Daisy says she is voting Mac b/c she is sleep deprived and annoyed and "I hope you're right Jay" but Jay is on neverwhere and not Mac. WTF people. we had 24 hours to work this out. switching around at the last damn minute usually is a mafia thing trying to get voted away from their team, am I right?

This quote is the first that made me suspicious. People change votes at the last minute when they are good as well as bad - see nutella as a civ for example. This looked like an attempt to get people to stop switching to Mac.

I hate to see all this stirring up here at the end. Daisy says she is voting Mac b/c she is sleep deprived and annoyed and "I hope you're right Jay" but Jay is on neverwhere and not Mac. WTF people. we had 24 hours to work this out. switching around at the last damn minute usually is a mafia thing trying to get voted away from their team, am I right?

Jay presented a case for Mac being bad that had some good points, but he also brought up earlier in EOD that we could default to an inactive player which in this case is Neverwhere. He elected to do that.

that's fine, but goodness, it stresses me out. I have been involved all day back and forth reading and staying caught up. what is the point of even being here throughout the day. I might as well just come in the last hour and read 10 posts and vote. it makes the whole day a pointless waste of my time. I hate mafia these days.

This is the first of the posts I remember about hating mafia which I lated started to see as an excuse for not participating more with real content. Also, it mischaracterized what had happened through the afternoon.

another reason you can't do this crap, JJJ, is b/c of time zones. it is very disrespectful to those across the pond. Mac may be bad, and if so....good for those voters, praise be. But if not, that poor man had no way to defend himself b/c the thread decided to change things up on him while he was asleep. this is why we have 24 hours to discuss, so that everyone can be involved WHEN THEY ARE AWAKE. Voting someone while they are asleep and not giving them time to rebuttle is horrible.

linki...okay, he was mafia. my point still stands.

can you tell I am angry? Mafia makes me so angry these days. I hate the way it is played. I am so angry, I don't even care we got a mafia on day 1. y'all upset me. I am going to cool off.
linki - busser = jay according to daisy

These two posts struck me as an angry Elo who was livid that her teammate Mac was voted off while he was away. Some people have said why would she do this if she was bad but I think she would if her anger got away from her. I particularly was struck by her line that "I am so angry, I don't even care we got a mafia day 1". That seems extreme to me, how could you be so mad you don't care about that? Also more about how she hates mafia now.

Well, I was trying to give Elo some things to respond to but it looks like I missed her so I will stop now. If anyone wants me to continue with this I will but it was mostly for her benefit.

[Elohcin]

Which actually, I already answered in the night in my anticipation of not being here today. I gave my thoughts on everyone and gave a POE, remember?

[Elohcin]

Sorry...linki didn't show...that was to dunya...hold on. Ibwill try to get to your other stuff. On phone and trying to cook

[juliets]

Which actually, I already answered in the night in my anticipation of not being here today. I gave my thoughts on everyone and gave a POE, remember?

Yes I remember. Sometimes people's views shift overnight or they have more to say about someone individually than in a POE post. If neither of these things happened thats fine.

[Elohcin]

As for the longer post, the incidents of GG are still very fresh in my mind and maybe I was projecting (I think that's the word). I still hate what happened in GG. It didn't even matter that I was civ. It was the principle of it that I was completely ignored like I was not even there. Like I was talking to the wall. I need to forgive for that, I know. But all those feelings came up again at that moment when Mac was being lynched. And I felt again like it didn't even matter if he were civ or bad. It is the principle. In hindsight, it wasn't as bad as what happened to me. I understand that now.

[Elohcin]

Ok....i seriously have to go get ready. My kids keep coming to me for this or that. Sorry folks...its time to celebrate my baby turning SEVEN!!!! Much more important than this game right now.

[juliets]

I feel like we should be talking whoever comes into the thread. I'll be here off and on all day.

[Spacedaisy]

which you are. (sorry I keep posting.) You are capable of pulling something like that off and you know it. I understand if it did go down, maybe Jack would have been the obvious choice. But when I read what Kites said, I was like, "yeah, that could have happened." I like to exhaust every option when we get down to this many players. Every thought and every move counts. Anyway...I am done defending that unless you have more questions.

Don’t apologize, we need to have these conversations.

[Spacedaisy]

Why are people so certain of Elo? I'd rather we had some conversation about this especially since she got railroaded in the past and I don't want to see that done to her again. Let's at least talk this through...

I will discuss a little later this morning when I'm fully awake. A big part of it is my POE has been narrowed down considerably and she is one of the only ones left. I believe I'm looking at a civ Daisy, Kites, speedchuck and Long Con which leaves Elo, dunya and Luna and I made move Luna out of the POE today. She had "lie detector" on her role card and I just don't see any use for that for a mafia.

Why are you sure of kites?

[Spacedaisy]

Why are people so certain of Elo? I'd rather we had some conversation about this especially since she got railroaded in the past and I don't want to see that done to her again. Let's at least talk this through...

I will discuss a little later this morning when I'm fully awake. A big part of it is my POE has been narrowed down considerably and she is one of the only ones left. I believe I'm looking at a civ Daisy, Kites, speedchuck and Long Con which leaves Elo, dunya and Luna and I made move Luna out of the POE today. She had "lie detector" on her role card and I just don't see any use for that for a mafia.

Why are you sure of kites?

[Spacedaisy]

Juliets I don’t think her concern with my vote for Mac and Jay’s vote for neverwhere is out of place. They were both suspicious looking votes. Jay made a case for Mac and then voted some where else. I defended Mac and then changed my vote for no good reason.

I would like to talk about others too. I want to know where everyone falls on kites and why. I feel like there has been little conversation about him.

[juliets]

Juliets I don’t think her concern with my vote for Mac and Jay’s vote for neverwhere is out of place. They were both suspicious looking votes. Jay made a case for Mac and then voted some where else. I defended Mac and then changed my vote for no good reason.

I would like to talk about others too. I want to know where everyone falls on kites and why. I feel like there has been little conversation about him.

Daisy, I can't figure out what you are saying. I didn't comment on her concern with your vote for Mac and Jay's vote for never where. I didn't have concerns with them but I don't think it's bad if she did.

[juliets]

Why are people so certain of Elo? I'd rather we had some conversation about this especially since she got railroaded in the past and I don't want to see that done to her again. Let's at least talk this through...

I will discuss a little later this morning when I'm fully awake. A big part of it is my POE has been narrowed down considerably and she is one of the only ones left. I believe I'm looking at a civ Daisy, Kites, speedchuck and Long Con which leaves Elo, dunya and Luna and I made move Luna out of the POE today. She had "lie detector" on her role card and I just don't see any use for that for a mafia.

Why are you sure of kites?

I posted some things I liked about him but will post some more.

[Spacedaisy]

Juliets I don’t think her concern with my vote for Mac and Jay’s vote for neverwhere is out of place. They were both suspicious looking votes. Jay made a case for Mac and then voted some where else. I defended Mac and then changed my vote for no good reason.

I would like to talk about others too. I want to know where everyone falls on kites and why. I feel like there has been little conversation about him.

Daisy, I can't figure out what you are saying. I didn't comment on her concern with your vote for Mac and Jay's vote for never where. I didn't have concerns with them but I don't think it's bad if she did.

The first quote you pulled was about that.

[juliets]

Juliets I don’t think her concern with my vote for Mac and Jay’s vote for neverwhere is out of place. They were both suspicious looking votes. Jay made a case for Mac and then voted some where else. I defended Mac and then changed my vote for no good reason.

I would like to talk about others too. I want to know where everyone falls on kites and why. I feel like there has been little conversation about him.

Daisy, I can't figure out what you are saying. I didn't comment on her concern with your vote for Mac and Jay's vote for never where. I didn't have concerns with them but I don't think it's bad if she did.

The first quote you pulled was about that.

Oh I see, I was focused on the last sentence, that switching around at the last minute is mafia behavior. I think that is a generalization that isn't true.

[juliets]

not feeling a nutella lynch now. reading her posts she seems to be kind of arrogant and feisty at times, i don’t remember her being like that in the previous games, i think she was a baddie in fire emblem or some other game iirc. anyways i kinda like it

gonna take a look at her voters then

I liked this post. I saw the exact same things in nutella and thought she was bad for it but he (rightly) see's her as good and decides to look at her voters.

so hmm juliets lynch dried up very quickly cos she claimed stump. it does seem like a role that fits the setup, it’s reasonable

it’s between nutella and mac now and i’m torn. mainly cos mac isn’t here and i will feel bad for lynching him. but like i said i don’t feel a nutella lynch and i doubt a lurker lynch will take off and i would take part in that anyways

He also doesn't like the fact that Mac isn't there but doesn't like a nutella Lynch (as he just explained) or the neverwhere Lynch. He goes on to vote Mac. I like that he acknowledged Mac wasn't there but ended up on him anyway because it made the most sense of the three.

Elohcin could you be more specific on what looks odd about kites posts? I'm taking another look at him now.

I see an immaturity in his posts. Like he is trying to make it LOOK like he is trying.

immature? sure, I agree. I am also trying... to keep up with this game, to be at least somewhat useful. It’s a struggle every game

my Mac vote looks bad now I guess. i just followed the events because I wasn’t sure about nutella and I didn’t like lynching Mac because he wasn’t here. I did some reading and the part where he said my big post was ”gold” felt incredibly fake. I admit the big post was kind of half assed collection of thoughts, I just skimmed the posts real quick. i didn’t the feel the post was particularly good so that strong positive reaction to it felt weird, enough to choose him over nutella. And yes I could have chosen someone else aside from these two but I didn’t feel there was time for that

now to sleep zzz

His response to being called out was agreeable and calm, and he gave more insight to his Mac vote.

also shouldn’t the poll be up cos it’s day 2, not night 2

It is Night 2. See the Night Results post.

night 2 after night 1? we skipped day 2? is no one else confused by this

I felt this was genuine. It was easy to let your eye slip by the info that it was night again. I didn't feel like this was a mafia reaction.

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

cop found out Jack is mafia, I’ll just ignore the distracting nonsense


and since juliets asked, this be the 5th vote, 3rd on Jack

This was too soon to vote Jack, the second mafia in a row, if Kites was mafia.

I have no reason at all to call leetic a civilian. There are no interactive points in his favor, and none of his posts look particularly "good" to me.

Neverwhere has at a few isolated moments exhibited a decent tone. This apology is an example. I like this tone too. It's not much, but it's more than zero.

I thought her Jack interactions were a slight positive tick for Luna. More tha zero.

7 of niju's 11 posts feature some kind of comment relating to her not being here. To be fair Neverwhere's ratio is similar. Among the four though niju is the only one for whom I have active suspicion.

Idk, I don’t get much out of the tone of the reasons for inactivity. I think it’s easy to fake a sincere sounding excuse or apology for not doing something. I know I’m guilty of doing it plenty of times so maybe I just think everyone does it

so if niju’s vote was just a quick throwaway vote
might as well have abstained but probably felt forced to vote, to contribute something (civs feel this too)
you’d think mafia would rather choose mac for civ points in this situation where your vote doesn’t matter anymore

I thought this proved to be good insight about niju and I like that he didn't try to give reads on the inactive. Those of us who tried were totally mistaken.
Could this be TMI? Sure, it could but I read it as genuine.

I posted earlier that I like the vote order thing he has been doing for us so I won't repeat one of those posts here.

Bye Nova. I am voting luna like I said I would if there was a kill this time.

explain what you mean please.

Luna was not active and there were no night kills for what, 2 nights? Then there was the narrowed lynch poll. Luna was on it and all of a sudden she had time to come in and get involved. With an active Luna there was now a night kill. I explained that if the night kill came about now that Luna was active, that I would assume those non-night kills were due to an inactive mafia luna.

linki....this whole insanification gold stuff is over my head.

I don’t believe in mafia not sending the night kills one bit. Even if lurker mafia doesn’t post, they are almost certainly checking the thread and sending the NK doesn’t take much of your time. Besides Jack was alive when luna didn’t post, and how do we know if there isn’t a 4th member of mafia team? I am suspicious of luna but this feels like a too made up excuse to vote

[VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

I liked this post because it poured water on the two-missed-kills-being-sent-in theory and I agree Elo's reasoning wasn't the best here.

Ok like I said I covered some other posts I liked in an earlier post so I'll stop here. Could Kites be bad? I guess he could but if nothing else those two posts he made about it being night 2 instead of day 2 looked genuinely confused to me and his vote for Jack was too soon to be a bus imo. If he's bad he has fooled me good.

[Spacedaisy]

Juliets I don’t think her concern with my vote for Mac and Jay’s vote for neverwhere is out of place. They were both suspicious looking votes. Jay made a case for Mac and then voted some where else. I defended Mac and then changed my vote for no good reason.

I would like to talk about others too. I want to know where everyone falls on kites and why. I feel like there has been little conversation about him.

Daisy, I can't figure out what you are saying. I didn't comment on her concern with your vote for Mac and Jay's vote for never where. I didn't have concerns with them but I don't think it's bad if she did.

The first quote you pulled was about that.

Oh I see, I was focused on the last sentence, that switching around at the last minute is mafia behavior. I think that is a generalization that isn't true.

Ohh my bad. Sorry, sleepy brain.

[Spacedaisy]

But ifthe double night was caused by a civ LC, why wouldn’t a baddie be confused. I think confusion inthat situation doesn’t necessarily equal good.

Getting off a lynch train of someone who is later confirmed good can be a baddie tell. TMI and all that, keep your hands clean when you know a lynch is going to flip bad for civs.

The vote for Jack also doesn’t buy him civ credit imo. A baddie worth their salt will bus hard and fast if their teammate is peeked red. You can’t hesitate in that situation. It’s civs who will question, is this person likely to be telling the truth?

The Mac vote is the only thing in there that gives me any pause. I need to look at when he voted Mac.

[Kites]

today’s a very busy day, sorry for not being here. got a short break now, heading to movies next

my vote goes for Elo too, been trying to get her lynched for the last two day phases now

[VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

[Kites]

I was confused about skipping day 2 because I simply didn’t notice that part in the night post. It was written in dark red font against a dark background so my eyes didn’t catch it, believe or not

I don’t understand how being confused about it would be alignment indicative

[juliets]

I was confused about skipping day 2 because I simply didn’t notice that part in the night post. It was written in dark red font against a dark background so my eyes didn’t catch it, believe or not

I don’t understand how being confused about it would be alignment indicative

Yeah that may be true Kites, it is nai. I was confused at first for the same reason, I didn't see the text below the lynch, my mind just filled in the blanks that it was day.

[juliets]

But ifthe double night was caused by a civ LC, why wouldn’t a baddie be confused. I think confusion inthat situation doesn’t necessarily equal good.

Getting off a lynch train of someone who is later confirmed good can be a baddie tell. TMI and all that, keep your hands clean when you know a lynch is going to flip bad for civs.

The vote for Jack also doesn’t buy him civ credit imo. A baddie worth their salt will bus hard and fast if their teammate is peeked red. You can’t hesitate in that situation. It’s civs who will question, is this person likely to be telling the truth?

The Mac vote is the only thing in there that gives me any pause. I need to look at when he voted Mac.

Yes Daisy I think you're right the confusion is nai.

I still believe Kites is good though. If Elo flips civ I might change my mind.

Also, you can tell when Kites voted Mac by looking at the chart he made for us.

[juliets]

[mention]Kites[/mention] if there are other things that you feel make you look good now would be the time to bring them up if you are here.

[dunya]

I dont have time right now to go through everything. 4 votes on Eloh. I'm not surprised.

Eloh, if you are a civilian now is the time to role claim and tell us your actions.

[dunya]

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[dunya]

If we are working against 3 mafia members today is MyLo. A mislynch and we lose.

[dunya]

5 votes have been cast @Lunalee

[dunya]

Unpopular opinion: every time juliets says "Lunalee can't be bad because a lie detector is a town role" I think she's bad.

[juliets]

Just curious [mention]dunya[/mention] , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

[dunya]

We need 7 votes to test Lunalee's theory.

I am a civilian.

Everyone should post this for her to check one of us tomorrow.

[juliets]

We need 7 votes to test Lunalee's theory.

I am a civilian.

Everyone should post this for her to check one of us tomorrow.

Oh right, ok.

[dunya]

Just curious @dunya , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

I can't ever tag on mobile. Can you quote my.post and tag her. We need 7 votes in.

And yes, any role can be any alignment in this game. Including your comfy stump tbh.

[dunya]

Im not giving anyone a free pass at end game because they have a townie sounding role.

[dunya]

We are in day 7 and Lunalee has still been unable to use her role even when corroborating with speedchuck. I don't believe that. One of them is bad.

[juliets]

I am a civilian.

Note to [mention]Lunalee[/mention] from dunya:

5 votes have been cast @Lunalee

[dunya]

One of them could even be bad with juliets. She's out here giving free passes to speed and Luna when they are the most confusing pair at the moment with their claims. Instead, she's focused on me and Eloh being bad. How is speedchuck or Luna or Spacedaisy or kites more civilian than me? I'd love to know the answer to that.

[juliets]

Just curious @dunya , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

I can't ever tag on mobile. Can you quote my.post and tag her. We need 7 votes in.

And yes, any role can be any alignment in this game. Including your comfy stump tbh.

Ok, I'm fine with that. My opinion is lie detector would be a shitty role to give the mafia but I understand where you're coming from.

[dunya]

Sorry...linki didn't show...that was to dunya...hold on. Ibwill try to get to your other stuff. On phone and trying to cook

Please role claim or face a lynch. Your choice.

[dunya]

Just curious @dunya , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

I can't ever tag on mobile. Can you quote my.post and tag her. We need 7 votes in.

And yes, any role can be any alignment in this game. Including your comfy stump tbh.

Ok, I'm fine with that. My opinion is lie detector would be a shitty role to give the mafia but I understand where you're coming from.

What if lie detector is her cover role? Like Jack's "doctor"? Why are you not the least bit skeptical about this?

[dunya]

Silencer is a shitty role to give town, but here we are.

[juliets]

One of them could even be bad with juliets. She's out here giving free passes to speed and Luna when they are the most confusing pair at the moment with their claims. Instead, she's focused on me and Eloh being bad. How is speedchuck or Luna or Spacedaisy or kites more civilian than me? I'd love to know the answer to that.

I remain concerned about mate's read. It looks like she was trying to build a case on you so she'd have a reason for her read other than her role ability having discovered you.

[juliets]

Just curious @dunya , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

I can't ever tag on mobile. Can you quote my.post and tag her. We need 7 votes in.

And yes, any role can be any alignment in this game. Including your comfy stump tbh.

Ok, I'm fine with that. My opinion is lie detector would be a shitty role to give the mafia but I understand where you're coming from.

What if lie detector is her cover role? Like Jack's "doctor"? Why are you not the least bit skeptical about this?

Because Jay's power says "only the words in his or her role description are available to him or her the following Day."

[dunya]

Just curious @dunya , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

I can't ever tag on mobile. Can you quote my.post and tag her. We need 7 votes in.

And yes, any role can be any alignment in this game. Including your comfy stump tbh.

Ok, I'm fine with that. My opinion is lie detector would be a shitty role to give the mafia but I understand where you're coming from.

What if lie detector is her cover role? Like Jack's "doctor"? Why are you not the least bit skeptical about this?

Because Jay's power says "only the words in his or her role description are available to him or her the following Day."

So? Doctor was in Jack's role.

[juliets]

Just curious @dunya , were you trying to get Luna's attention? The mention function doesn't seem to have worked.

Also lol about the lie detector. Do you think it can be a bad role?

I can't ever tag on mobile. Can you quote my.post and tag her. We need 7 votes in.

And yes, any role can be any alignment in this game. Including your comfy stump tbh.

Ok, I'm fine with that. My opinion is lie detector would be a shitty role to give the mafia but I understand where you're coming from.

What if lie detector is her cover role? Like Jack's "doctor"? Why are you not the least bit skeptical about this?

Because Jay's power says "only the words in his or her role description are available to him or her the following Day."

So? Doctor was in Jack's role.

I know there is a possibility, though I consider it small, that Luna is bad or speed is bad but at this moment I just don't see them that way. I don't see them as bad over Elo though.

[dunya]

One of them could even be bad with juliets. She's out here giving free passes to speed and Luna when they are the most confusing pair at the moment with their claims. Instead, she's focused on me and Eloh being bad. How is speedchuck or Luna or Spacedaisy or kites more civilian than me? I'd love to know the answer to that.

I remain concerned about mate's read. It looks like she was trying to build a case on you so she'd have a reason for her read other than her role ability having discovered you.

And that is the basis of my problem with you now. You're the one who has been building this strong narrative around mata's reads. How me and Eloh have to be bad, even though I already showed you evidence of how her opinion was changing (hence, it couldn't be role ability), and I even showed you clearly what her issue with me was, and I responded to those too. Like, what more do you want from me?

You're dead set on painting me bad "based on mata" and that's what I hate. The all so innocent question "ok guys, I know we all hate night kill analysis but WHY and WHO would kill mata?" Trying to again case suspicion on me and Eloh all based on the mata kill. You didn't ask who killed nutella. You didn't ask who killed nova. You didn't ask who the mafia could have killed on nights 2 and 3 but were denied. You're all about mata and pushing that one narrative without taking accountability for it, because you don't have any reasons so you say "it's cos of what mata said" and I think that just stinks.

And this whole "that role sounds so townie so they can't be bad" is consistent with how you want us to judge your stump claim, but it's iffy now when we're at end game and we know all sorts of roles exist on either faction and you're townclearing people based on their role sounding town.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine tbh. I think speedchuck or Luna is your teammate.

[dunya]

Oozing tmi this entire phase with who you want at end game. Obviously not me or Eloh. Or Jay.

[Long Con]

I am a civilian.

[juliets]

One of them could even be bad with juliets. She's out here giving free passes to speed and Luna when they are the most confusing pair at the moment with their claims. Instead, she's focused on me and Eloh being bad. How is speedchuck or Luna or Spacedaisy or kites more civilian than me? I'd love to know the answer to that.

I remain concerned about mate's read. It looks like she was trying to build a case on you so she'd have a reason for her read other than her role ability having discovered you.

And that is the basis of my problem with you now. You're the one who has been building this strong narrative around mata's reads. How me and Eloh have to be bad, even though I already showed you evidence of how her opinion was changing (hence, it couldn't be role ability), and I even showed you clearly what her issue with me was, and I responded to those too. Like, what more do you want from me?

You're dead set on painting me bad "based on mata" and that's what I hate. The all so innocent question "ok guys, I know we all hate night kill analysis but WHY and WHO would kill mata?" Trying to again case suspicion on me and Eloh all based on the mata kill. You didn't ask who killed nutella. You didn't ask who killed nova. You didn't ask who the mafia could have killed on nights 2 and 3 but were denied. You're all about mata and pushing that one narrative without taking accountability for it, because you don't have any reasons so you say "it's cos of what mata said" and I think that just stinks.

And this whole "that role sounds so townie so they can't be bad" is consistent with how you want us to judge your stump claim, but it's iffy now when we're at end game and we know all sorts of roles exist on either faction and you're townclearing people based on their role sounding town.

[VOTE: juliets] aubergine tbh. I think speedchuck or Luna is your teammate.

Lolol

[dunya]

Juliets always forms her own opinions. She doesn't take a dead player's opinions and roll with them like they are written truths imo. Bad juliets can use a dead player's opinions and roll with them because how do I defend myself from accusations from someone who can't react to me defences? Bad.