[END] The Syndicate's 2013 Game of Champions

#2701

Is Bob's minion obliged to use the NK if they're not under suspicion? The role description says 'can NK' not 'must'.

klinki - omgomggmog Devin I love you so much in a non-erotic way k

#2702

Well, I have internet in my hotel, so I can afford to wait until later tongiht to vote (I'll be busy tomorrow).

Nev, your point about bea is a super good one. Voting yourself does seem a very good way to avoid detection if you're the minion (for a while, at least). I may have to alter my theory about BWT and Epi.

@Bea: hypothetically, if we were to collectively decide to put votes on BWT and Epi today, but not you, would you be cool with that, given what it would imply?

#2703

Lizzy wrote:Is Bob's minion obliged to use the NK if they're not under suspicion? The role description says 'can NK' not 'must'.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 421#p53421

Seems to imply that they wouldn't have to.
I hadn't thought of that - if I were a solo bob minion that needs to go LMS at end-game
I'd definitely avoid killing anyone until much later in the game, so that nobody could infer any information about my role.

Damn, I guess my conclusions about the short list of potential minions aren't as well supported as I hoped.

linki Russ: Lizzy's point is relevant - if Bea could just choose not to use the NK then she wouldn't need to vote for herself to keep covered.

#2704

@ rusti - I'm not the minion. I'm really not. I'm happy to do what ever I can to help prove that.

@ nev - that was also kinda my point with voting myself. Were I the minion, and I *could* kill, I wouldn't want to till someone who had suspicion suddenly had an open window to be blamed for the kill. I saw a hole and I tried to fill it so to speak. See what I'm saying?

#2705

Russtifinko wrote:Well, I have internet in my hotel, so I can afford to wait until later tongiht to vote (I'll be busy tomorrow).

Nev, your point about bea is a super good one. Voting yourself does seem a very good way to avoid detection if you're the minion (for a while, at least). I may have to alter my theory about BWT and Epi.

@Bea: hypothetically, if we were to collectively decide to put votes on BWT and Epi today, but not you, would you be cool with that, given what it would imply?

What hotel are you staying in, Russti?

#2706

Earlier in the game when we were discussing Bob's minion and their kill someone brought up that in the Twin Peaks game Bob's minion had to use the kill if they didn't receive a vote. I thought MP had confirmed that as true to this game, but I just went back and reread all of our illustrious host's posts and only see his response to questions how the minions gain a kill (answered before Bob died and we knew there'd only ever be one minion this game).

Though I did see this response from MP in regards to a different role:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Nevinera wrote:MP: Is bouncer allowed to *choose* not to drill on a night when he's able to?
Technically, yes, but that would only occur (obviously) by the entire team missing the PM (whether on accident or purpose). I can't control whether they choose to send in a PM or not; it's not like I randomize a target in the absence of a PM. But, in theory, Big Daddy shouldn't be allowed to do that (and wouldn't, really, considering passing up a kill that one only gets every three nights would be crazy).

Hopefully that answers your question.

I read this as MP frowning upon a player choosing to refrain from using their power so I wonder if that was specific to Big Daddy, or a game-wide thing.

Can't hurt to ask:
@MP: Can the Minion choose to refrain from using their kill (if they have one)?

#2707

Flyin' High wrote:Earlier in the game when we were discussing Bob's minion and their kill someone brought up that in the Twin Peaks game Bob's minion had to use the kill if they didn't receive a vote. I thought MP had confirmed that as true to this game, but I just went back and reread all of our illustrious host's posts and only see his response to questions how the minions gain a kill (answered before Bob died and we knew there'd only ever be one minion this game).

Though I did see this response from MP in regards to a different role:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Nevinera wrote:MP: Is bouncer allowed to *choose* not to drill on a night when he's able to?
Technically, yes, but that would only occur (obviously) by the entire team missing the PM (whether on accident or purpose). I can't control whether they choose to send in a PM or not; it's not like I randomize a target in the absence of a PM. But, in theory, Big Daddy shouldn't be allowed to do that (and wouldn't, really, considering passing up a kill that one only gets every three nights would be crazy).

Hopefully that answers your question.
I read this as MP frowning upon a player choosing to refrain from using their power so I wonder if that was specific to Big Daddy, or a game-wide thing.

Can't hurt to ask:
@MP: Can the Minion choose to refrain from using their kill (if they have one)?

In theory, no, they cannot -- but again, if someone fails to send in the kill, then I can't technically know whether it was on purpose or accidental. My answer here pretty much replicates Big Daddy (and likewise for any other night power in this game).

Not using your power (even refraining from it on purpose for strategic reasons) is still very frowned upon behavior and may even be punished if there are repeat offenses.

#2708

Announcement:

Just as an FYI, I reset the poll. It still ends at the same time. BDH approached me privately and was obviously very upset when he made his vote and made a major error when he quickly voted. Considering only he and I had voted (and under that circumstance ONLY, especially with Piranha Plant in play) and given the specific circumstances of his request, I decided to make the exception this one time, allowing him to re-vote.

This is not something I ever intend on doing again, but given the specific set of circumstances here, I thought it was fair.

#2709

MovingPictures07 wrote:Announcement:

Just as an FYI, I reset the poll. It still ends at the same time. BDH approached me privately and was obviously very upset when he made his vote and made a major error when he quickly voted. Considering only he and I had voted (and under that circumstance ONLY, especially with Piranha Plant in play) and given the specific circumstances of his request, I decided to make the exception this one time, allowing him to re-vote.

This is not something I ever intend on doing again, but given the specific set of circumstances here, I thought it was fair.

I forgot to mention:

May I please request, if possible, that no one vote until BDH makes his vote? That way he is still 2nd to vote as intended.

Thanks!

#2710

Hey there somber guy,
Don't fret, don't cry.
Happens to the best of us,
I refer to me, of course.
From here proceed thus,
With No Remorse.

#2711

But seriously. Take all the time you need, BDH! You're under no pressure from us!!

#2712

Flyin' High wrote:
Boomslang wrote:So happy to be in Meat Boy, lol. Is my home turf. FH, you point out some interesting differences in the night posts, but should we really be reading that much into them? Seems just like a creative range of expression on the part of the host. Unless these differences have actually meant something before.
Well, if these additions are there because of the sinister exaggerator then I do think we should be paying attention to them, at least somewhat.

Because it makes you wonder why that team has picked Nev and juliets to add fake kill attempts on and why Nev's was written as if he survived but juliets was written as if she died.

Nev survived a Night 1 kill attempt so perhaps they wanted to mimic that and make us think something about Nev that isn't true (e.g. frame him as Big Daddy who is hard to kill). The likely fake kill attempt of Nev coupled with Moriarty's role reveal of Nev as the Big Daddy (Exaggerator and Moriarty are on the same team) makes this a plausible theory in my mind. And we may have started looking more closely at Nev as a result of these two things if we hadn't learned those role secrets.

So what I wonder is this, if they were trying to frame Nev as the Big Daddy then why decide to show a kill of juliets that isn't true? What was their motivation?

I thought the Sinister Exaggerator was dead?

A Person -- The Sinister Exaggerator -- Modkilled by The Voice - Day 2

#2713

MovingPictures07 wrote:The Sinister Exaggerator - [Avant-Garde 2] – Loves to exaggerate! (Secrets) Can tamper with the night posts every night, adding in one occurrence of its choice that didn’t actually happen. As a being of mystical presence, it can continue to do this even from beyond the grave. Additionally, as long as it is alive, the killer on its team can kill twice every time instead of once.

#2714

Ah, thank, I missed that. Do you think A Person is someone likely to participate from beyond the grave?

#2715

bea wrote:@ rusti - I'm not the minion. I'm really not. I'm happy to do what ever I can to help prove that.

@ nev - that was also kinda my point with voting myself. Were I the minion, and I *could* kill, I wouldn't want to till someone who had suspicion suddenly had an open window to be blamed for the kill. I saw a hole and I tried to fill it so to speak. See what I'm saying?

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me now - no way to prove it wasn't you unless you make sure to keep getting a vote.

S~V~S wrote: I thought the Sinister Exaggerator was dead?

A Person -- The Sinister Exaggerator -- Modkilled by The Voice - Day 2

His secret was that he's allowed to use his power from the grave. Should be included in the original role descriptions pots now.

Given MP's response, I think we need to behave as if the minion mostly has to use his power if able.
Otherwise we'll notice someone showing up on the night poll with 'missed no votes, posted lots of times' (unless they're already there I suppose).
So I think that the short list is still valid, just not absolute.

linki SVS: I don't know if AP would be, but his group can send in his power PM for him anyway.
I'm *very* confident that that power is being used though.

#2716

They can? Did the host confirm this?

#2717

Becasue that would be so not fair, tbh. Allowing a NP dead persons team to use their power?

#2718

Most games with btsc teams allow teams to send in a single PM, assuming they've talked over their power usage in the chat.
MP's bioshock had that feature, at least.

#2719

(Epi could give you more details on that topic from bioshock - I was hearing it secondhand through him)

#2720

So no one has confirmed that the host would allow the team of a dead person who is not participating to send in powers for him? Since this is an exceptional power?

Sockalex~ would you allow this?

#2721

Becasue then it would not be *his* power anymore, and that does not seem fair, really. It is not fair to that role either, it would make him just a sacrificial lamb, since they could just use his power without him.

#2722

S~V~S wrote:So no one has confirmed that the host would allow the team of a dead person who is not participating to send in powers for him? Since this is an exceptional power?

Sockalex~ would you allow this?

I allow team PMs. In the case of Sinister Exaggerator's role, since it partially works when the player is dead, I would not change the rules so that he needs to send in the PM.

So yes, in theory, Sinister Exaggerator's team can send in his PMs on his behalf.

#2723

OK, thanks Alex. Not what I expected, but clarity is good.

So the people who voted to oust AP could easily be teammates.

#2724

Unfortunately AP is the player that got himself modkilled for editing his posts.

With his role's secret revealed, his cavalier attitude towards the rules actually makes a lot more sense.

#2725

Oh, right. I forgot that. One more thing i need to read back on, lol. Being dead for even a few days in this game was crippling in a way.

#2726

Nevinera wrote:(Epi could give you more details on that topic from bioshock - I was hearing it secondhand through him)

I always allow (and prefer) group PMs. I think MP does too. Most hosts I've played with allow it.

#2727

Yeah MP has clarified~ I wanted clarification since this was for a dead role. Which implies that role continues to participate. Group PMs=group participation. Phoning it in for someone who is not participating is why I have stopped allowing group PMs in my games.

#2728

To clarify my train of thought:

There are pros and cons to allowing group PMs versus not. There are some aspects about group PMs I do not like (mainly, that a non-participant can squeak by), but there are also cons to not allowing group PMs that can be just as bad or worse IMO: punishing the other teammates for not being able to take advantage of a power because they were randomly assigned to a deadbeat player being a main counterargument.

Especially since I have a mechanism this game for dealing with non-participants (and I like to in each of my games, but especially here), that is why I decided for group PMs instead of against them.

I realize no one is arguing with me on the matter, but I wanted to just lay out why I allow that option.

#2729

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

#2730

#2731

MovingPictures07 wrote:Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Iwxh xh yjhi iwt qtvxccxcv.

Yeah we know. INH approves, I'm sure.

#2732

Devin the Omniscient wrote: What hotel are you staying in, Russti?

Why, wanna come over?

Nah but really, I'm in the Marriot in Cleveland. Super fancy.

Nevinera wrote: linki Russ: Lizzy's point is relevant - if Bea could just choose not to use the NK then she wouldn't need to vote for herself to keep covered.

My interpretation of what MP said is that basically the minion must kill if they can. So I agree with you that it's not an absolute list, but I feel generally ok about it. And given that 2 of the players on it are Kate rezz voters, I'll probably vote one of those two.

Bea, I would probably feel better about you from a hard evidence standpoint if we left you uncovered and did have votes on Epi and BWT. My gut is still saying civ bea though.

Gonna vote BWT. I think that lynching either him or Epi has a good chance to get a baddie, and they've both pinged me so far.

Wish me luck tomorrow!

Linki: Stupid codes. I wish this would be the end of them and not the beginning.

(The code says "This is just the beginning.")

#2733

In my mind, the obvious reason for a fake kill on juliets would be for her team to remove suspicion of her as a baddie. I'm honestly surprised people haven't brought that up before, unless they think it's too bold of a move.

#2734

Boomslang wrote:In my mind, the obvious reason for a fake kill on juliets would be for her team to remove suspicion of her as a baddie. I'm honestly surprised people haven't brought that up before, unless they think it's too bold of a move.

Is it working?

#2735

no, it does not seem to be so doing, does it?

#2736

When I was The Exaggerator, I used my role to craft paranoia. You cannot use such a role to help a teammate.

#2737

Also, I don't believe there was any suspicion on Juliets to start with. Not we likely move.

#2738

Epignosis wrote:When I was The Exaggerator, I used my role to craft paranoia. You cannot use such a role to help a teammate.

You can snark all you want, but as far as I can tell, the focus has been on the faking of the kill, not the person they faked killing. That counts as a redirection in my book. You'll see other people can use underlines as well.

#2739

I tend to be oversensitive to Epis snark, and i did not see him snarking where you did, Boom.

And now that they are exposed via the decoding, they have to switch it up or die.

#2740

WAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING

#2741

Dunno. All I know is for a champions game, i have seen more name calling etc in this game than in pretty much any other i have played.

Tough crowd.

Night.

#2742

Just a quick note, I've been reading bit by bit but there are over 2500 posts so I won't be up to snuff anytime soon. I saw that Nevinera and DH left me some helpful posts so if my time runs low on the day I will use those posts to focus my time a bit.

#2743

Russtifinko wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote: What hotel are you staying in, Russti?
Why, wanna come over?

Nah but really, I'm in the Marriot in Cleveland. Super fancy.

Nevinera wrote: linki Russ: Lizzy's point is relevant - if Bea could just choose not to use the NK then she wouldn't need to vote for herself to keep covered.
My interpretation of what MP said is that basically the minion must kill if they can. So I agree with you that it's not an absolute list, but I feel generally ok about it. And given that 2 of the players on it are Kate rezz voters, I'll probably vote one of those two.

Bea, I would probably feel better about you from a hard evidence standpoint if we left you uncovered and did have votes on Epi and BWT. My gut is still saying civ bea though.

Gonna vote BWT. I think that lynching either him or Epi has a good chance to get a baddie, and they've both pinged me so far.

Wish me luck tomorrow!

Linki: Stupid codes. I wish this would be the end of them and not the beginning.

(The code says "This is just the beginning.")

I wanna come over, but I'm a bit too far away these days.

If you'd have been around like 5 years ago, totally would have been doable.

You make a good point rusti. Also - your gut is correct about me.

#2744

Flyin' High wrote:
I don't think this was discussed already (and apologies if it was) but as long as Delbert doesn't find Jack we can essentially block him from using his secret power. If anyone gets a PM from MP offering them the use of a night kill, they should turn it down. That way Delbert can't control extra kills until he finds Jack (which hopefully doesn't happen).

I'm glad you brought that up - I was thinking that last night as I was mulling things around before bed, but I over slept today and didn't get in here to post it. Then when I was in here tonight, I was just catching up on the thread while I was working.

I'm glad someone else came to this conclusion. It helps me feel less crazy

At first I was really sad that BB tried to NK me because it sucks to be targeted by your teammate, but now that we understand how the role works, I feel a lot better about it. Now I think of it as having been targeted by Creeper and Delbert.

#2745

Epignosis wrote:When I was The Exaggerator, I used my role to craft paranoia. You cannot use such a role to help a teammate.

I actually agree here. I remember once we tried to use the exaggeration on wabbit so that it read like he had a crush or something on me (Which I found particularly

worthy given the long history of friendship between wabbit, myself and my hubby). I know at one point I was curious as to whether or not we could use it to fake a NK. It looks like they tried it here - but with out the big boldy part at the end and the removal of the name from the lynch poll, yea...it's kinda hard to do.

#2746

timmer wrote:Just a quick note, I've been reading bit by bit but there are over 2500 posts so I won't be up to snuff anytime soon. I saw that Nevinera and DH left me some helpful posts so if my time runs low on the day I will use those posts to focus my time a bit.

They are both helpful posts. I know one of them was about the secrets though that's updated on the first page. I'd still check them out though they might help you along as your reading.

I'm curious as to what you see (new eyes, fresh perspective and all that jazz) as something has occurred to me. And I'll also admit, I'm *just* as guilty as everyone else here of this.

We've all been very vocal and very helpful at turning over every corner of the indi roles. We've all been very curious and very talkative about a role that's either a) being used by someone from beyond the grave or b) by the team.

But you know what we really haven't been doing a lot of? Baddie hunting. It always seems to get sidetracked by the discussion of other things. The puzzles - the codes - zodak - media - the exaggerator. The potential recruit.

We have a dead Exaggerator (thanks socky) and we have a dead Bob (thanks Zodac) and we have a dead probably Big Daddy aka Kate (thanks other baddie team)

WE have lynched Mycroft, WE have lynched Damo and WE have lynched Mr. Ibis (with Zodac's help) Does this bother anyone else?

#2747

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mongoose wrote:Get it on in there, guys.

Awww! You beat me to it, Epi! I was eating supper too. I love supper....

I agree that Lizzy is the best lead we have currently, though it's a shame because I think I've been seeing her civ game (which fits if she is Jack Nicholson). That said, I think (hope) that she has enough votes, so I'll help by spreading it out.

bea makes a good point on BWT. Someone accused him of being blendy before, but that's always how I see BWT no matter what, so I tried not to read into it too much. Accusing bea because of her post saying BOB could help but not reading her other post is strange. The post of his the bea quoted reads to me as trying to plant suspicion while leaving plenty of room to back off if it doesn't catch, which seems like a baddie move to me.

*votes BWT*
This isn't entirely against you, but more of a generalization I've felt lately. I know a lot of people tend to say they find me "blendy" or "hard to read" often, and I often get votes for it. But that's more my playstyle than anything else. And no, it's not something I plan on changing anytime soon. :P

Linki: I've been agreeing with llama? I don't remember that happening directly. If it did, would you mind pointing it out?

Linki2: Called what? That I would change my mind on bea? Where are you coming from, Russ?

and yes - after several cycles of trying to give you the benifit of the doubt - I acknowledged our *very* recent bts. and how last game you were going to be *so* game on. It was the sacrifice we needed for sure, but I was looking forward to playing with you teefies. And I don't think I am. Like at all.

I know it's taken days for me to see it - and I know I had to go back here at the beginning. - but I really think teefies is bad here. It sucks ALOT as I'm currently drilling him with questions in the interigation room and I know we'll have some dr. who love VERY soon

but I can't keep giving chances when every post I read keeps smelling more and more bad.

I have to say - I'll eat a hat on this one.

I'm not seeing civ teefies here like at all. If I'm wrong, I will sigg my shame.

#2748

birdwithteeth11 wrote:As for actual game stuff, I find it very odd that bea may be advocating us letting Bob's minions be allowed to kill someone or someones. I would like to hear back from her before the lynch ends, if possible.

Of course, I'm leaning toward no one's names corresponding with who we would actually vote for, so the poll right now might be a moot point.

the first teefies post that caught my eye - because I literally addressed that on the same page. He was waiting around for me to say something I already said.

I didn't understand how bob's power worked and at that particular time was thinking that we civs should maybe be more open minded to the indies. I till the role was more explained didn't get that he was a LMS win condition.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:
thellama73 wrote:BWT is making a lot of sense today.
Well shit. This was all I could find :/ this was after a large post by BWT... So yeah, I think I was just being paranoid and misremembering the BWT/llama agreements. Please disregard that part.
Yeah, I remember him saying that. Although I think that was more in relation to my feelings/thoughts about Epig. Which is someone I am definitely still willing to look at for the following day.

Outside of that though, I'm out of ideas for suspects. Any other baddies want to break some rules and make it easier?
You keep talking about how you want to vote for me, but you never do.

Day 1 it's Lizzy.
Day 2 it's the guy Lizzy killed.
Day 3 it's Lizzy.

I realize I keep falling into the I want to vote for you but never do category as well. I think I'm currently talking myself into accepting the obvious.

this post should have gone before the other one.
but you all are smart and can understand my errors.

#2749

nev - I have to say - I'm looking forward to your re-read. and If I'm around and can add a twenty second thought - well then good for us.

#2750

bea wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Russtifinko wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mongoose wrote:Get it on in there, guys.

Awww! You beat me to it, Epi! I was eating supper too. I love supper....

I agree that Lizzy is the best lead we have currently, though it's a shame because I think I've been seeing her civ game (which fits if she is Jack Nicholson). That said, I think (hope) that she has enough votes, so I'll help by spreading it out.

bea makes a good point on BWT. Someone accused him of being blendy before, but that's always how I see BWT no matter what, so I tried not to read into it too much. Accusing bea because of her post saying BOB could help but not reading her other post is strange. The post of his the bea quoted reads to me as trying to plant suspicion while leaving plenty of room to back off if it doesn't catch, which seems like a baddie move to me.

*votes BWT*
This isn't entirely against you, but more of a generalization I've felt lately. I know a lot of people tend to say they find me "blendy" or "hard to read" often, and I often get votes for it. But that's more my playstyle than anything else. And no, it's not something I plan on changing anytime soon. :P

Linki: I've been agreeing with llama? I don't remember that happening directly. If it did, would you mind pointing it out?

Linki2: Called what? That I would change my mind on bea? Where are you coming from, Russ?
and yes - after several cycles of trying to give you the benifit of the doubt - I acknowledged our *very* recent bts. and how last game you were going to be *so* game on. It was the sacrifice we needed for sure, but I was looking forward to playing with you teefies. And I don't think I am. Like at all.

I know it's taken days for me to see it - and I know I had to go back here at the beginning. - but I really think teefies is bad here. It sucks ALOT as I'm currently drilling him with questions in the interigation room and I know we'll have some dr. who love VERY soon

but I can't keep giving chances when every post I read keeps smelling more and more bad.

I have to say - I'll eat a hat on this one.

I'm not seeing civ teefies here like at all. If I'm wrong, I will sigg my shame.

really teefies

Who deserves to win?