Dogs vs. Cats [END]

[Dragomir]

Mmmmmmmmmmm interesting. Shit I actually gotta think about this

Think about what?

[nutella]

Mmmmmmmmmmm interesting. Shit I actually gotta think about this

Think about what?

You seem pretty convinced about Michelle. I have to at least consider that.

[nutella]

That case is, like, okay. You could easily have fabricated it as an attempt to steer focus off you/look like you're really hunting, or it could be real and you could even be right. It's hard to say. I still feel worse about you than Michelle all things considered but I could be wrong and I'm really trying to see all the possible angles here, even considering potential role mechanics and stuff that we can't overtly point to.

[Fayt]

I don't know. I believe Drago on top of the NK tbh. It was either to implicate Drago or it was just a random kill. I don't think he's pulling the wool over my eyes and his eod behavior sounded genuine but eh.

He's wrong about me being the last cat though so if you want to build a case on me, do so so I can dispute it and put it to rest. We need to look at everyone if we are wrong.

[nutella]

I don't know. I believe Drago on top of the NK tbh. It was either to implicate Drago or it was just a random kill. I don't think he's pulling the wool over my eyes and his eod behavior sounded genuine but eh.

He's wrong about me being the last cat though so if you want to build a case on me, do so so I can dispute it and put it to rest. We need to look at everyone if we are wrong.

I disagree with your nk analysis. I don't get how you're interpreting it. And you can always apply the wifom/that's-what-he-wants-you-to-think consideration. I mean, consider yesterday. He was trying to emphasize that he suspected LC, but there was never going to be a wagon there so he gave up. Do you think it's possible that he deliberately did that to plant the seed for us to think he wanted to lynch LC but then NKed him to throw us off since we'd think he'd want LC around as a mislynch target. Or that he saw there wasn't enough interest in lynching LC (tbf if LC was still around today he'd be in my poe, but whatever) so he knew he'd need to pivot to another mislynch target, so went ahead and killed LC figuring we wouldn't really know what to make of that. Idk, this is the problem with nk analysis. Too much wifom/potential for it to mean anything or nothing.

[Dragomir]

I don't know. I believe Drago on top of the NK tbh. It was either to implicate Drago or it was just a random kill. I don't think he's pulling the wool over my eyes and his eod behavior sounded genuine but eh.

He's wrong about me being the last cat though so if you want to build a case on me, do so so I can dispute it and put it to rest. We need to look at everyone if we are wrong.

I disagree with your nk analysis. I don't get how you're interpreting it. And you can always apply the wifom/that's-what-he-wants-you-to-think consideration. I mean, consider yesterday. He was trying to emphasize that he suspected LC, but there was never going to be a wagon there so he gave up. Do you think it's possible that he deliberately did that to plant the seed for us to think he wanted to lynch LC but then NKed him to throw us off since we'd think he'd want LC around as a mislynch target. Or that he saw there wasn't enough interest in lynching LC (tbf if LC was still around today he'd be in my poe, but whatever) so he knew he'd need to pivot to another mislynch target, so went ahead and killed LC figuring we wouldn't really know what to make of that. Idk, this is the problem with nk analysis. Too much wifom/potential for it to mean anything or nothing.

You're thinking too much into it.

[nutella]

That's exactly the problem lol

[nutella]

I don't want to read too much into the LC kill bc I think that's what you want me to do so you can call me on it lolol

[nutella]

Anyway. If I had to vote between Michelle and Fayt I think it would still be Fayt.

[Dom]

[deadturds[/dead]

[Fayt]

I don't know. I believe Drago on top of the NK tbh. It was either to implicate Drago or it was just a random kill. I don't think he's pulling the wool over my eyes and his eod behavior sounded genuine but eh.

He's wrong about me being the last cat though so if you want to build a case on me, do so so I can dispute it and put it to rest. We need to look at everyone if we are wrong.

I disagree with your nk analysis. I don't get how you're interpreting it. And you can always apply the wifom/that's-what-he-wants-you-to-think consideration. I mean, consider yesterday. He was trying to emphasize that he suspected LC, but there was never going to be a wagon there so he gave up. Do you think it's possible that he deliberately did that to plant the seed for us to think he wanted to lynch LC but then NKed him to throw us off since we'd think he'd want LC around as a mislynch target. Or that he saw there wasn't enough interest in lynching LC (tbf if LC was still around today he'd be in my poe, but whatever) so he knew he'd need to pivot to another mislynch target, so went ahead and killed LC figuring we wouldn't really know what to make of that. Idk, this is the problem with nk analysis. Too much wifom/potential for it to mean anything or nothing.

I also had that thought but I feel like similar to the TSP kill, it's what the killer is planning. Like they want us to go after Drago so I'm not buying it.

I would still like to hear reasons as to why you guys think it's me unless I've already said my peace on it.

[Long Con]

deadturds

[MacDougall]

Macdougall is the Pinscher

Whoa I am mod cleared. Who wants to fuck with me?

[novaselinenever]

[mention]Michelle[/mention] What happened to your suspicion of Fayt?

[MacDougall]

Michelle or Fayt. Hmm.

haha this is hilarious. We both helped you survive yesterday ans now you find us scum? Are we playing the same game?

You know who else helped me survive? Nova and Nutella. You know who's left in the game? Mac, Nutella, you, Fayt, Nova. You know who's confirmed town? Mac? Who the fuck am I supposed to suspect? Myself? Don't bitch about something irrelevant.

You seem town

[MacDougall]

Personally I think it's Nova. Motherfucker has been all calm and blendy and weird.

[MacDougall]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

[MacDougall]

You know I'm town and I know that you know it because you are bad.

Or maybe my reads are good? Why should I suspect you? It's crunch time and you want me to include my town reads in a PoE? That makes no fucking sense.

This is a townie.

[MacDougall]

[mention]Dragomir[/mention] I'll help you solve some shit. Give me your notes.

[novaselinenever]

The LC kill was weird for me.. I'm trying to think if LC suspected anyone other than Drago. But I feel if Drago was the last cat, he would try again to lynch LC no?

Or did he realize no one was going for LC so he shot him?

Can you just vote for Michelle?

I do prefer a Michelle lynch over you but what are your feelings on Nova and Nutella if we're wrong again.

I hate this.

[novaselinenever]

Personally I think it's Nova. Motherfucker has been all calm and blendy and weird.

[novaselinenever]

I'm town, don't waste your time. You're welcome.

[MacDougall]

Fuck you and your smile. You've been so clean all game you should be dead.

[MacDougall]

I'm town, don't waste your time. You're welcome.

You know who is town?

Me.

[MacDougall]

Jay is town. Don't try lynch him.

Tom & Jerry is the fucking best. Dogs > cats though.

Cause I said so

Dragon D. Luffy can you explain to me how you're gonna have Scar in the poll but not Simba? The disrespect smh.

Opening with a strong town read, alright. The "Don't try to lynch him" is laughable. False bravado followed by attempts to divert by cracking jokes and using the theme/host, then a dud when asked for the why.

Drago is bad.

This is a pretty good read. Nova is town.

[novaselinenever]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

Not this late and after being wrong about Dom, but he's still good I think

[MacDougall]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

Not this late and after being wrong about Dom, but he's still good I think

Why are you in this guru like mode? And don't try to tell me that you aren't because you are. Explain why.

[MacDougall]

Alright SCAMPS.

Let's go through the actual motions here instead of the dumb ones. Let's start with GTH.

[mention]Fayt[/mention] [mention]Dragomir[/mention] [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] [mention]nutella[/mention] [mention]Michelle[/mention]

Be here in exactly 36 minutes.

[novaselinenever]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

Not this late and after being wrong about Dom, but he's still good I think

Why are you in this guru like mode? And don't try to tell me that you aren't because you are. Explain why.

I have no fucking clue lol. Weird game I guess

[novaselinenever]

Think Michelle is europe time so she won't be here

[novaselinenever]

[VOTE: Fayt] aubergine

[MacDougall]

Whoever was questioning why LC is dead, the simple answer is "because he was widely town read".

There's a possibility that they thought he was the Pinscher and info was behind the town read too, but at the end of the day it's not a confusing kill.

[MacDougall]

Think Michelle is europe time so she won't be here

YOU ARE EUROPE

[MacDougall]

Okay so I really like that I can see genuine thought behind Fayt's posts. I know Jay was pretty adamant it was her but he's also a fart face so who cares. Nutella seems kinda gamesolvey but I can never clear her because her range is so massive. Likewise Nova. If we lynch wrong today well, it's probably because it's one of them.

If someone can provide a bit of an objective cliffnotes version of why Dragomir is bad that'd be good because he tone reads town to me. If there is something empirical that says otherwise then I'd acquiesce this weak ass read though.

I'll see if an ISO of Michelle leaves me feeling anything about her.

[MacDougall]

Yeah look I think it's Michelle too.

[nutella]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

I'm sniffing what you're pooping down.

[MacDougall]

I can see TMI on her day 1 towards LC. She had a little bite at Speedchuck that looks like distancing and she took a defensive position with Rej. Generally her tone was pretty bad but the ESL is a bit hard to parse.

[MacDougall]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

I'm sniffing what you're pooping down.

So my literal only concern towards you is that you have been pretty much 100% buddying me the entire game. What gives?

[MacDougall]

Speed is fine. Drago not so much.

Nova is already MVP. Mindmelds all over the place.

Michelle, TH, and rej fine. Jay, LC, Mac, Dom, fayt need more data. Did I miss anyone

Also buddying Nova out the gate. The false dichotomy here with Speed/Drago is pingy as fuck too. Especially since we now know Speedchuck was a cat.

[MacDougall]

Hmm, would scum Nutella stop pushing me or continue pressing the very likely lynch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. So right now, Nutella is in good looks.

Rej is the leading wagon, not you.

Oh right. Gonna have to rethink this then. @Nutella do you suspect Rej?

Yeah, I guess I do. I've waffled a bit and don't feel amazingly strongly about it, but I like the connection that Mac drew between him and Fayt.

Since Rej flipped cat this now reads like you using my wrong case to tie a townie to him.

[MacDougall]

Speed is fine. Drago not so much.

Nova is already MVP. Mindmelds all over the place.

Michelle, TH, and rej fine. Jay, LC, Mac, Dom, fayt need more data. Did I miss anyone

Speed is fine.

Oh yeah, Speed and LC exist. Let's move off these stale wagons and lynch one of them instead.

I'm inclined to sheep Epi re: speed, and I haven't seen anything that made me feel anything positive about him.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Speed is voted for no reason.

Lol I said at some point that speed was fine and looking at his iso now i cannot fathom why I had that thought

Mistake released and poop buried.

[MacDougall]

*realised

[nutella]

Okay so I really like that I can see genuine thought behind Fayt's posts. I know Jay was pretty adamant it was her but he's also a fart face so who cares. Nutella seems kinda gamesolvey but I can never clear her because her range is so massive. Likewise Nova. If we lynch wrong today well, it's probably because it's one of them.

If someone can provide a bit of an objective cliffnotes version of why Dragomir is bad that'd be good because he tone reads town to me. If there is something empirical that says otherwise then I'd acquiesce this weak ass read though.

I'll see if an ISO of Michelle leaves me feeling anything about her.

Well for me his behavior in the Jay lynch just felt so calculated in a weird way and especially note that he was really adamant about the vig plan and then there was no vig kill and the cat has a block. Like of course that could have been fayt too but drago just seemed so keen on it and the way he changed his mind from lynch fayt to lynch jay just really seems to me like he was trying to keep fayt around as a buffer.

[MacDougall]

Drago is always town here. Michelle is ALWAYS town here. Mac, Epi, or Nova could theoretically be pulling the wool over my eyes but I've mindmelded with them too many times to not want to think about that unless I have no other choice. It's within LC, Fayt, Jay, and Dom. Fayt is the only overlap I have with Jay's list so that's the most logical option I suppose, but my gut is weakest there and if Jay is scum then, well.

Do you still feel this way towards Drago and Michelle because since they're both alive it now reads like TMI.

[MacDougall]

I cannot recall a person agreeing with my reads any more than you have in this game. It's actually insane. This is just a smattering.

It's almost like you've taken an intentional position to just not enter into conflict with me? Have you?

I thought Fayt was part of the recent MU wave but they're not lol

Sup Starlight

We already have something of substance to talk about, people. If you haven't already piped in, I want to know what y'all think of Dragomir or anything related to the conversation surrounding Dragomir.

So for the dragomir thing, I might be late on this because I haven't had a chance to reply until now. There are things I'm unsure of and this is off of first impressions but I do lean scum on him. As reasons stated above but also because of Dragomir not wanting to do first impressions but then jump onto another target (i.e. LC) so he must think of something about LC that strikes him as odd or did he just drop the LC name to get people off of his back.

Secondly, I don't think Dragomir and JJJ are bussing each other. If they are then I'm definitely fooled. If Dragomir turns out to be scum, I find Jay as town and vice versa. However, there is a chance they could both be town but I don't think both would be scum.

Fake. Super fake. Fayt is bad.

"I do lean scum on him". She is emphasising "I do" as opposed to just "I lean". She is responding someone who does not. There is only one person who has actively said that they do not and that is Rej. This is consequentially distancing of Rej.

The second paragraph spews both Jay and Drago as town.

Oh baby this is that good shit. My poor boofer mouth is gonna need a glass of milk after that, hooo-wee.

I don't think Epi's case on Jay holds much water at all. Nothing that was pointed out is outside of Jay's town play. It's still a mild town tick for Epi though. I still think Jay is town.

my thoughts as well

Of all the people who were just participatory in that flurry Nova's contributions were the most skewiff. I don't understand what he was trying to do at all.

also agree here, I was happy with nova's contributions d1 but today so far he's done nothing, just made scattered comments all over the place and idk what his actual thoughts are.

Facts:

JJJ gave Rej a bunch of shit. Did not vote there.
JJJ voted LC, whom he called good that same Day.

What else am I supposed to do with this?

So you are suspicious of Jay because he is wrong?

Firstly, what if LC is also a cat?

But I'll unpack this for a second. In this scenario you propose Jay to be Rej's teammate and unwilling to bus him. Would it not stand to reason that if he was unwilling to bus him that he would be willing to defend him? Did he defend him? If you can show me evidence of Jay trying to manipulate others into rescinding their read on Rej I'll listen more.

Personally I think the chances are rather high that we had two cat wagons up on day 1.

I dig this, I'm also still sort of on the LC/rej both cats train. So what do you think is the likelihood of Jay being their teammate in this scenario vs a civilian?

Agreed with concern about Rej take. Potential TMI on Dragomir.

Why? What about it strikes as TMI?

I'll answer for him. Firstly, you have been actually pretty scummy. So for Rej to defend you is TMI. Rej has no reason to feel like you have been civvy enough to question the people casing him.

Rej is taking the opportunity to gain your trust by dismissing the case as incredulous, which is invariably how you would feel as a civ. In the event of a civilian flip of you he is distanced from the case making of a bad lynch, which is where people first look for wolves (even though it's usually never that simple).

Now, onto Fayt, who we have common ground on.

This post smells like a litter box. Paints quite a big picture of events. "Actually pretty scummy"? Mac is purring like a devil

Just looking at TH's posts and this one stands out. If I wasn't me I'd be pretty convinced that I killed him for this.

But given I am in fact a dog ... perhaps this kill was made in the hopes of somebody breadcrumbing that.

Turnip Head had a pretty strong town read on Dragomir. I am want to think that a wolf team that has Dragomir in it that just lost a member would not kill someone who had an incorrect scum read on me and was town reading Dragomir.

I also think that TH wasn't proving to be much of a threat. I don't see how a scum team that has players unfamiliar with him would choose him as a kill.

It just seems like a pure POE shot given how good TH looked in light of the Rej flip.

I kinda found it strange how Jay decided to leak that he had an interaction analysis with Rej/TH. Almost seems like Jay was trying to make us think he didn't know TH was gonna get the bullet. @JaggedJimmyJay why did you post the TH/Rej interaction analysis?

this is a good point tbh

bleh [VOTE: Rej] aubergine

But Michelle says Rej is Civ.

I am going to veto a Long Con lynch.

This post here is not Rej's teammate.

What are you talking about, that is literally him using a third party to try to hard defend Rej? That's like the most teammate indicative shit ever lol.

Lol yeah I'm with mac on this one. Don't see how you could use that to clear LC in the slightest.

Just btw I 100% believe Jay would absolutely kill TH if he thought it was the right move, "site health" be damned. I have wolfed with Jay and cannot in a million years imagine him saying "let's not kill TH because he's only just came back" if TH was empirically the best kill to be made. He'd be like "exterminate the prick and even better because I can say that I'd never do it and dumb shits would believe me muahahaha". Jay is absolutely cold and pragmatic as scum and him even trying that on as defence is scummy as shit.

@nutella you have scummed with Jay, what do you think?

100% agree as you may have surmised from another post I just made lol

Worthy of thought.

Rej lynched by a single vote on day 1.

Flipped wolf on his wagon.

Why did Speedchuck not just vote for LC?

Fair.

I'm remembering how much I agreed with mac's early accusations of fayt, and thinking I tone cleared her too easily later. Plus Jay's points about her defending him, and the weird sprityo vote... yeah ok. [VOTE: fayt] aubergine

[nutella]

Nova, do you have reason to doubt Drago is the cat?

I'm not sure right now. Most of my thoughts there were linked to my Dom suspicion and Drago being the one Dom was casing, as well as my experience with him. There are a lot of flashes of his civ self in how he's behaving and being stubborn. I'm supposed to reread and reassess some stuff in a bit so I'll see how I feel especially with the whole "that's what he wants you to think" perspective.

See how at pains he is to answer this question meticulously. Townie Nova would probably have just been short here.

I'm sniffing what you're pooping down.

So my literal only concern towards you is that you have been pretty much 100% buddying me the entire game. What gives?

The mindmelds bro. Basically since champs we are attached at the hip as civilians tbh

[nutella]

Drago is always town here. Michelle is ALWAYS town here. Mac, Epi, or Nova could theoretically be pulling the wool over my eyes but I've mindmelded with them too many times to not want to think about that unless I have no other choice. It's within LC, Fayt, Jay, and Dom. Fayt is the only overlap I have with Jay's list so that's the most logical option I suppose, but my gut is weakest there and if Jay is scum then, well.

Do you still feel this way towards Drago and Michelle because since they're both alive it now reads like TMI.

I don't, lol. Those were strong tone reads at the time but I have been forced to reconsider and drago's behavior (see my above post) in recent phases has prompted a 180 on him and michelle is certainly on the table.

[MacDougall]

Strong words to recant on. ALWAYS town you said.

[MacDougall]

So if that's the case is anyone aside from me not on the table?

[nutella]

I've just literally agreed with almost everything you've said this game. That's just how it goes sometimes man. Great minds and all.