[END] The Syndicate's 2013 Game of Champions

[timmer]

Going by sockys answer, Ive still got a feeling that sd may not be bad. I can't be sure, because there may have been mushrooms or some other night power at play that I don't know about, but I think spacesaisy may be a certain civ role. I wont vote her at this time, but since I cant legally say much more, I'll understand if people dont really gollowme on tjis.

Off to work.

[Flyin' High]

I was thinking about juliets and Creeper killing her. Could juliets have been Creeper and last night she exploded hoping to take down 4 people with her? The 2 players above her and 2 players below her alphabetically are me, Hedgeowl, Lizzy, and Mongoose. Lizzy is a civvie and I'm a civvie, not 100% certain on Hedge or Mongoose at this point. But if there was no chance of taking out a teammate by doing it, that would have been an excellent way to remove 4 players.

Occam's Razor tells me that theory is not likely to be true. But it popped into my head and I wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Also, I was reading back through some of MP's night posts and the scene in this one stood out to me. The baddies are gathered around playing poker. Catherine Martell, Moriarty, Creeper, and Dr. Fetus are mentioned, as well as Sander Cohen. Is that a hint that as of Night 9, those roles were all still alive? It true, then Rumpelstiltskin is dead and it confirms our belief that Big Daddy and Pirahna Plant are dead.

Also, there was this:

The players then walked over to the bus, ready to head to Illinois. Then, familiarly, it started raining papers, which read:

"I feel pretty confident that DF is a civvie. Also Bea and DH are pretty trustworthy, imo. Not so sure about BWT..."

The papers were signed by Jack Torrence. "Wait... wasn't Jack Vompatti??? And wasn't he dead???" inquired juliets. The champions pondered.

Was this the work of the sinister exaggerator, or something else?

[Boomslang]

What is "yes-manning", by the way?

"Yes-manning" is seeming too agreeable with the general tone of the discussion. For example,
"Oh, I still don't get what's up with bea, but I no longer think she was on rumples team. I'll trust SVS on that assessment," and "Certainly, baddies should come first!" In response to Mongoose and Lizzy, respectively.

[birdwithteeth11]

Bea - I trust FH because someone I trust trusts her.
SVS - I know.
Nev - Woohoo! We could have a discussion about Cohen, but getting Creeper is a priority right now. If he randomly explodes, he takes at least one person with him. I wonder if Fetus is already dead or if not, at least lynchable.

At the risk of painting a huge target on my head, I will simply say for now he is not vulnerable, but it is close. I will elaborate more if enough people I feel okay about wish to know.

[Nevinera]

I was thinking about juliets and Creeper killing her. Could juliets have been Creeper and last night she exploded hoping to take down 4 people with her? The 2 players above her and 2 players below her alphabetically are me, Hedgeowl, Lizzy, and Mongoose. Lizzy is a civvie and I'm a civvie, not 100% certain on Hedge or Mongoose at this point. But if there was no chance of taking out a teammate by doing it, that would have been an excellent way to remove 4 players.

I think that's fairly unlikely. But possible - I guess we can't assume the creeper is still alive.
Keep in mind though that the expectation outcome was removing *one* of those four players.
Each one got a 25% kill chance. I don't think trading 1-for-1 would tactically be a smart move at this point;
that seems like something that would only ever happen if creeper was about to be lynched (at *any* time, it said).

Was this the work of the sinister exaggerator, or something else?

I have no idea about that, but it seems reasonable.

linki bwt - if he's even still alive. Folks have been dropping like flies. Or do you think you'd know if he died?

[Boomslang]

Bea - I trust FH because someone I trust trusts her.
SVS - I know.
Nev - Woohoo! We could have a discussion about Cohen, but getting Creeper is a priority right now. If he randomly explodes, he takes at least one person with him. I wonder if Fetus is already dead or if not, at least lynchable.

At the risk of painting a huge target on my head, I will simply say for now he is not vulnerable, but it is close. I will elaborate more if enough people I feel okay about wish to know.

I'd imagine it's reasonable that you'd get some further info about Fetus, being Meat Boy and such. So why the worry about the target? You have several more lives, no?

[birdwithteeth11]

linki bwt - if he's even still alive. Folks have been dropping like flies. Or do you think you'd know if he died?

Well MP is still asking me nightly to search for him, so I would assume he's still alive because of that.

Linki: That is true. I still have 2 more lives to spare, and I die when the third one is extinguished. I guess my main concern is that the baddies might try and target me every single night to get rid of me. But even if I were dead and Fetus were still "invulnerable", I would imagine there would either be a way around that or other ways he could die other than being NKed.

Ehhhhh, might as well go ahead and mention it. I only need to find him one more time, and I currently have a 50% chance of finding him every night. So the odds dictate that I should find him on either Night 11 or Night 12.

[birdwithteeth11]

Also, since I haven't done this yet, a list!

bea: Was convinced she was bad, now unsure.

Boomslang: Unsure

DFaraday: Unsure. Him making a comment to FH about being quiet when he's one to talk concerns me a bit.

Elo: I'd honestly forgotten she was still playing. Someone I would consider voting for today.

FH: Unsure. I do feel she has been a bit quiet though

Hedge: Unsure. Another one where I sometimes forget she's still alive and playing.

Lizzy: Civvie

Mongoose: Unsure

Nev: Strongly lean civvie

SD: Unsure. Another one who's been too quiet for my tastes.

SVS: Civvie

Timmer: Unsure

If I had to vote for somebody now at gunpoint, it would probably be SD, Elo, or Hedge. Any of the 'unsure' ones are ones where someone would have to make a case (or I'd have to see something in the thread) to convince me to vote for them.

[birdwithteeth11]

I just thought of something. Going to PM MP and see what he says.

[Flyin' High]

I was thinking about juliets and Creeper killing her. Could juliets have been Creeper and last night she exploded hoping to take down 4 people with her? The 2 players above her and 2 players below her alphabetically are me, Hedgeowl, Lizzy, and Mongoose. Lizzy is a civvie and I'm a civvie, not 100% certain on Hedge or Mongoose at this point. But if there was no chance of taking out a teammate by doing it, that would have been an excellent way to remove 4 players.

I think that's fairly unlikely. But possible - I guess we can't assume the creeper is still alive.
Keep in mind though that the expectation outcome was removing *one* of those four players.
Each one got a 25% kill chance. I don't think trading 1-for-1 would tactically be a smart move at this point;
that seems like something that would only ever happen if creeper was about to be lynched (at *any* time, it said).

The way I'm reading Creeper's role is that if Creeper chooses to explode, he has a 25% chance of taking out 4 players. It doesn't look like it's 25% chance each. Was this clarified by MP and I just missed it? I did a search of his posts for the word "Creeper" and didn't see him answer a question about that.

I'm not trying to push the theory because I don't think it's that likely, but we appear to have different understandings of how Creeper's power works and it'd be good to know for sure what it is. If MP clarified this can you please provide a link?

I know some people might feel like we've gone over the "voted to rezz Kate" list countless times, but at this point, since we know Creeper is alive and very likely Dr. Fetus too I figured it could help sort through the names.

Kate voters:
Mongoose - ?
bea - civvie?
Epig - appears to have been Pirahna Plant so his vote makes sense
llama - Delbert, indy
SD - ?
Devin - Lucy*
BWT - Meat Boy
juliets - ? [killed by Creeper so unless she was Creeper and self-exploded, she's off this list too]
Vomps - Jack
Bullzeye (Timmer) - civvie?
Aces - Mr. Ibis

So if all of her living teammates voted to rezz her, then the narrowed down list is Mongoose and SD as potential teammates.

*I am posting as thoughts come to me because there is so much complexity to this game, but since Devin was killed as a result of Zodac "breaking a tie", his death is technically a lynch. So if he was Catherine Martell, he'd have gotten to choose a role to appear as. What do people think about him being revealed as Lucy?

*Linki* Another player calling me quiet? BWT, you only have about 15 posts more than me!

I feel like I need to respond to this better. I have never been a huge poster. Sure, over a four-year period of playing, there is the occasional game that I post like fiend. But on the whole I am someone that usually only posts when I feel I have something important or new to contribute to the thread. And when I do post, my posts tend to be fairly long. I am a very analytical person and spend a lot of time thinking. So just because my post count doesn't rival people like DH and Epi doesn't mean I'm not still contributing on a regular basis to the game. Perhaps this should be in off-topic because I am accused of being "more quiet than usual" in almost every game I play and I find myself questioning why this keeps happening to me.

[DFaraday]

I was thinking about juliets and Creeper killing her. Could juliets have been Creeper and last night she exploded hoping to take down 4 people with her? The 2 players above her and 2 players below her alphabetically are me, Hedgeowl, Lizzy, and Mongoose. Lizzy is a civvie and I'm a civvie, not 100% certain on Hedge or Mongoose at this point. But if there was no chance of taking out a teammate by doing it, that would have been an excellent way to remove 4 players.

Occam's Razor tells me that theory is not likely to be true. But it popped into my head and I wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Also, I was reading back through some of MP's night posts and the scene in this one stood out to me. The baddies are gathered around playing poker. Catherine Martell, Moriarty, Creeper, and Dr. Fetus are mentioned, as well as Sander Cohen. Is that a hint that as of Night 9, those roles were all still alive? It true, then Rumpelstiltskin is dead and it confirms our belief that Big Daddy and Pirahna Plant are dead.

Also, there was this:

The players then walked over to the bus, ready to head to Illinois. Then, familiarly, it started raining papers, which read:

"I feel pretty confident that DF is a civvie. Also Bea and DH are pretty trustworthy, imo. Not so sure about BWT..."

The papers were signed by Jack Torrence. "Wait... wasn't Jack Vompatti??? And wasn't he dead???" inquired juliets. The champions pondered.

Was this the work of the sinister exaggerator, or something else?

There is at least one civvie role that could have something to do with that.

BWT, I pointed out FH's quietness because she has a reputation for being a talkative civ with long, detailed posts (like the one I just quoted, actually. That I wasn't seeing much of that pinged me. My play style, on the other hand, is exactly what you've been seeing this whole game.

[Boomslang]

linki bwt - if he's even still alive. Folks have been dropping like flies. Or do you think you'd know if he died?

Well MP is still asking me nightly to search for him, so I would assume he's still alive because of that.

Linki: That is true. I still have 2 more lives to spare, and I die when the third one is extinguished. I guess my main concern is that the baddies might try and target me every single night to get rid of me. But even if I were dead and Fetus were still "invulnerable", I would imagine there would either be a way around that or other ways he could die other than being NKed.

Ehhhhh, might as well go ahead and mention it. I only need to find him one more time, and I currently have a 50% chance of finding him every night. So the odds dictate that I should find him on either Night 11 or Night 12.

Thanks for the information! This news is very encouraging. If anything I'd argue it encourages the baddies to look for other targets, as they figure they can't stop you from finding Fetus now. Unless they think you're bluffing about your progress...

[birdwithteeth11]

FH, that post from you feels a bit more genuine to me. So I will probably knock you off my list for today. Still unsure about DFaraday.

Alright, so according to what MP just told me, if Fetus were to die before I made him vulnerable, I would not be made aware of it. So it is entirely possible that he is dead, but I don't feel comfortable going with that assumption until I either find him or MP informs us that his team has been eliminated.

Linki: That is also a possibility. Because they'd have to waste at least 2 NKs in order to make me vulnerable and a third one to finish me off. And that's assuming I didn't have another unexplainable protection take effect.

In that case, baddies, please feel free to try and kill me tonight. Kthx.

[DFaraday]

And FH, I said you have a reputation for quietness. Maybe you're playing exactly the same as ever, but somehow it feels like in the past you've been a lot more post-y. Having said that, your recent posts seem very much like the ones I associate with you. And I don't actually have any suspicion of you besides that I thought you were posting different.

Today I will be looking mainly at the people I mentioned earlier.

EBWOP: BWT, Is there something in particular about me that you find pingy?

[Flyin' High]

Thanks for the response, DF.

I checked back on voting records and saw that SD voted two days in row to lynch Epignosis, and one of those days he came close to getting lynched (he had 5 votes to Vomps' 7 votes). So I think it's less likely that she's a Video Game Baddie. She could still be a Manipulator and my original ping had to do with her socks post. So at this point she's still a question mark for me, but I feel better about her not being Creeper or Fetus.

I read back through all of Elohcin's posts. There is so little substance there. The only think I took from it is that she's not Percy because she was very suspicious of BDH and even voted for him.

On to more reading!

*Woah, linki world!*

[birdwithteeth11]

And FH, I said you have a reputation for quietness. Maybe you're playing exactly the same as ever, but somehow it feels like in the past you've been a lot more post-y. Having said that, your recent posts seem very much like the ones I associate with you. And I don't actually have any suspicion of you besides that I thought you were posting different.

Today I will be looking mainly at the people I mentioned earlier.

EBWOP: BWT, Is there something in particular about me that you find pingy?

Other than you being quiet, no. You're in the category where there would have to be a substantial case on you that materializes before the lynch ends. So I would need more to vote for you than I currently have.

[Nevinera]

"Yes-manning" is seeming too agreeable with the general tone of the discussion. For example,
"Oh, I still don't get what's up with bea, but I no longer think she was on rumples team. I'll trust SVS on that assessment," and "Certainly, baddies should come first!" In response to Mongoose and Lizzy, respectively.

In the case of the former, there's plenty you don't know.
But I hardly would consider it 'yes manning' to agree that we need to lynch baddies.
I was trying to point out that I agreed with that priority, despite that I had been talking largely about Cohen around then.

I checked back on voting records and saw that SD voted two days in row to lynch Epignosis, and one of those days he came close to getting lynched (he had 5 votes to Vomps' 7 votes). So I think it's less likely that she's a Video Game Baddie. She could still be a Manipulator and my original ping had to do with her socks post. So at this point she's still a question mark for me, but I feel better about her not being Creeper or Fetus.

That is very useful to note. I feel substantially better about SD now.

Alright, so according to what MP just told me, if Fetus were to die before I made him vulnerable, I would not be made aware of it. So it is entirely possible that he is dead, but I don't feel comfortable going with that assumption until I either find him or MP informs us that his team has been eliminated.

Well, even if he was dead, you should certainly go ahead and make him lynchable in case he becomes less dead :-)

[Boomslang]

Thanks for the response, DF.

I checked back on voting records and saw that SD voted two days in row to lynch Epignosis, and one of those days he came close to getting lynched (he had 5 votes to Vomps' 7 votes). So I think it's less likely that she's a Video Game Baddie. She could still be a Manipulator and my original ping had to do with her socks post. So at this point she's still a question mark for me, but I feel better about her not being Creeper or Fetus.

I read back through all of Elohcin's posts. There is so little substance there. The only think I took from it is that she's not Percy because she was very suspicious of BDH and even voted for him.

On to more reading!

*Woah, linki world!*

regarding Elohcin. After you pointed that out, did a bit of rereading myself. Practically nothing to go off of, other than the BDH thing and some mild suspicions of BWT, which turned out to be incorrect.

[Boomslang]

EBWOP: That last post was entirely in orange! For any Sock-based entities who are keeping track!

[DFaraday]

Thanks for the response, DF.

I checked back on voting records and saw that SD voted two days in row to lynch Epignosis, and one of those days he came close to getting lynched (he had 5 votes to Vomps' 7 votes). So I think it's less likely that she's a Video Game Baddie. She could still be a Manipulator and my original ping had to do with her socks post. So at this point she's still a question mark for me, but I feel better about her not being Creeper or Fetus.

I read back through all of Elohcin's posts. There is so little substance there. The only think I took from it is that she's not Percy because she was very suspicious of BDH and even voted for him.

On to more reading!

*Woah, linki world!*

Yeah, I definitely knew she wasn't Percy, but I haven't gotten a read on which side she's even on. As for Hedge, I'm hoping I can find time to read back on her today. I do feel better about Daisy after you pointed that voting pattern out.

[Nevinera]

At the moment I would feel alright with a vote for Elo, DF, Boom, or Hedge, and I could countenance a mongoose.
I have no particular reason to vote one of those more than the others, though I like Elo a little better because I voted for her in the past
(so if she's sander I'd still want to lynch her).

Just putting that out there because I'm going to be gone for a little bit, and I would like to get a consensus together before we all have to vote
(to avoid unnecessarily alienating cohen. Hope it's not too late for that).
Also, It'd be great if anyone wanted to vote themselves to prove they aren't cohen!

[Hedgeowl]

Ok I have only made it through 4 pages of Mongooses 8 so far. What I did notice is that she is worried about the PP a lot and bring it up often. Having played Mario with her this didnt seem strange to me but coupled with her voting history it makes me wonder more.

Mongoose:
Day 1 INH
Nevinera (5), Flyin' High (6), Dom (7), Mongoose (8), Elohcin (9), juliets (10), Bullzeye (12), Kate (16), S~V~S (18), Spacedaisy (22) 37%

DAy 2 INH
Mongoose (2), Kate (4), DharmaHelper (5), Flyin' High (6), Bullzeye (7), thellama73 (8), birdwithteeth11 (9), blindfaeth (12), Spacedaisy (14),
Nevinera (15), Elohcin (16), AceofSpaces (18), juliets (19), reywaS (22), DisgruntledPorcupine (24), bea (25), DFaraday (28), Dom (29) 60%

Piranha Plant kill was #11 on K4J non-player.

Night 2 shield:
thellama73 (6), blindfaeth (10), Mongoose (21), Flyin' High (22), birdwithteeth11 (23), juliets (24), Boomslang (25) 26%

Day 3:
DisgruntledPorcupine:
Mongoose (8) 4%

Night 3:
Almost all of us voted for DP to be eliminated except for Bea and FH.
Zodac instead choose Dom who was Bob.

Day 4:
DisgruntledPorcupine
Epignosis (2), Mongoose (5), Russtifinko (7), Bullzeye (8), DharmaHelper (9), AceofSpaces (10), DisgruntledPorcupine (11), juliets (12), Elohcin
(14), Boomslang (15), Vompatti (22) 42%

PP killed #17 which was FH.

Night 4:
Voted SVS and Lizzy too.
Kate:
Mongoose (3), bea (8), Epignosis (15), thellama73 (17), Spacedaisy (20), Devin the Omniscient (31), birdwithteeth11 (34), juliets (43), Vompatti (46), Bullzeye (49), AceofSpaces (57) 19%

Day 5:
thellama73:
DharmaHelper (8), Nevinera (10), Devin the Omniscient (11), Flyin' High (12), Mongoose (13), juliets (16), Elohcin (19), Bullzeye (21), Epignosis(22), DFaraday (24) 37%

Night 5:
AceofSpaces (23 posts, missed no votes):
Lizzy (7), Devin the Omniscient (8), Nevinera (16), juliets (17), Mongoose (18), bea (19), birdwithteeth11 (21), Flyin' High (22), Russtifinko (23) 39%

Day 6:
BigDamnHero:
BigDamnHero (2), Mongoose (10) 8%

PP picked #9 and K4J absorbed it again.

Day 7:
Vompatti:
DharmaHelper (7), DFaraday (10), Hedgeowl (15), Mongoose (16), juliets (20), bea (23), Spacedaisy (24) 29%

Day 8:
thellama73:
Nevinera (5), blindfaeth (7), DharmaHelper (8), Mongoose (10), juliets (11), birdwithteeth11 (12), Flyin' High (13), bea (14), S~V~S (15), Devin the Omniscient (16), timmer (17), Boomslang (18), Elohcin (19), Spacedaisy (20) 70%

Day 9:
juliets:
Mongoose (8) 8%

Of the votes, Mongoose voted with Kate ttwice when Kate was still living, voted to rezz Kate, and voted with Epi several times. What I find interesting is about the PP plant days is she votes early on days where its 11 and 17, but when its #9 she votes #10 right after it was safe. It just indicates to me that she seem to be voting with knowledge.

The one hitch I had examining her record is it wouldnt make sense for her to vote juliets and then her tean NK juliets that same night, so that gives me pause.

Also, I have been quiet for chunks of this game, because I've had less time to post than in the past and was sick. However, I have posted more than Bwt (who called me quiet) and Lizzy. The people who have posted more than me alive ar Mongoose, bea, SVs, and Nev.

[S~V~S]

Boomslang, the Nevin thing is a bit subtle, but the host has essentially proven bwt is Meat Boy. Saying bwt isn't cleared just means you aren't paying attention.

Gah, I knew that. Excuse me for getting lost in two threads and exchanging players and the host not updating the player list with the revealed info, like he did for when Lizzy got brought back as Mycroft. Ok, so I was wrong there. The Nevin thing is "subtle." Care to enlighten me?

No. You have to hit me over the head with a brick for me to notice role subtleties~ and I saw it. Read back.

And re my targets, the first time, night one, both of my original targets have since died, and neither came up as a civ. The second they are both alive, one I trust implicitly. The other is on my "?" list, but MP seems to be saying that only one would redirect, so that point is moot.

@Lizzy~I could go with your list. And something good happened for me a while ago, something caused by Bea at that time. It happened again last night

I will be back in tons of time for the poll (9:54 PM my time) and will keep up with the thread during the day (just won't post much at work on phone).

I'm sorry, but I still don't see anything obvious. I see Nev doing decent analysis, getting insanified, and then "yes-manning" the discussion. I also think it's very interesting how Timmer fell into line with you today after you threw the merest hint of a suspicion at him a couple days ago. Agreeing with a confirmed civ is a smart and blendy move.

Timmer "fell in line with me" because I believe he read back and found my point. Search "illuminating" and read back from my post using it.

[birdwithteeth11]

Interesting insights there, Hedge. I think that might shoot Mongoose up slightly for me in suspicion. I would like to hear from her though before committing, but it gives credence to the fact that she might either be PP or on his team. If she is PP, maybe she talked about the role a lot earlier to cast doubt on her possibly being slotted for that role?

Linki

I have a few errands to run, so I will be back later.

[Boomslang]

Boomslang, the Nevin thing is a bit subtle, but the host has essentially proven bwt is Meat Boy. Saying bwt isn't cleared just means you aren't paying attention.

Gah, I knew that. Excuse me for getting lost in two threads and exchanging players and the host not updating the player list with the revealed info, like he did for when Lizzy got brought back as Mycroft. Ok, so I was wrong there. The Nevin thing is "subtle." Care to enlighten me?

No. You have to hit me over the head with a brick for me to notice role subtleties~ and I saw it. Read back.

And re my targets, the first time, night one, both of my original targets have since died, and neither came up as a civ. The second they are both alive, one I trust implicitly. The other is on my "?" list, but MP seems to be saying that only one would redirect, so that point is moot.

@Lizzy~I could go with your list. And something good happened for me a while ago, something caused by Bea at that time. It happened again last night

I will be back in tons of time for the poll (9:54 PM my time) and will keep up with the thread during the day (just won't post much at work on phone).

I'm sorry, but I still don't see anything obvious. I see Nev doing decent analysis, getting insanified, and then "yes-manning" the discussion. I also think it's very interesting how Timmer fell into line with you today after you threw the merest hint of a suspicion at him a couple days ago. Agreeing with a confirmed civ is a smart and blendy move.

Timmer "fell in line with me" because I believe he read back and found my point. Search "illuminating" and read back from my post using it.

Alright, I think I get it. Baddie Team 1 tried to kill him, then frame him, and no Baddie Team 2 role has the required protection. But... again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was FH who brought this up, not you. So again, it's interesting that Timmer didn't bring up FH as the source of the info. Instead, he used a confirmed civvie.

[S~V~S]

You are not listening to what I am saying, Boom. I have said all I plan to on this topic.

But this has kinda shot you way up on my list.

[Boomslang]

You are not listening to what I am saying, Boom. I have said all I plan to on this topic.

But this has kinda shot you way up on my list.

I'm just very frustrated right now. I make a good-faith effort to understand a point that no one will actually tell me, and I'm shot down with a flat "no" and increased suspicion. I went to the place you first used "illuminating," read back until I found FH's explanation, and found it useful. I honestly don't know what else you want from me.

[Hedgeowl]

I think we can start with something. It probably won't work, but I don't have any better ideas.

Hedgie, since you're here, did you receive any offer from Mr Butler?

You mean Grady? No, i have never been offered anything.

[Nevinera]

I don't think a baddie would be playing dumb at this point SVS - it's not nearly as obvious if you weren't watching with that in mind the whole time :-)

I mean wifom and all, so I won't remove him from suspicion.
But I wouldn't vote boom just because he doesn't seem to get it.

[Lizzy]

You are not listening to what I am saying, Boom. I have said all I plan to on this topic.

But this has kinda shot you way up on my list.

You know, this could go either way:
1. He really doesn't know.
2. He's a very clever baddie and he's risking it all.

BWT, cheers for the Fetus insight. Here's what I'm thinking: I may have the numbers wrong; Moriarty is no more (no reveal), Creeper is probably still out there (killed last night); Fetus is probably still out there; Cohen is probably still out there; I may have the numbers wrong; but this is all there is left... and Catherine died somewhere in the process.

I'm very intrigued by Hedgie's analysis of Goosey... and I'm almost inclined to give her a chance based on her last post addressing my suspicions. But there's still the fact that her game has mostly been an indie hunt. And I'm good buddies with the indies, except when they get towards the end and choose the dark side.

I have a role in mind for DF. I'm trying to think of a way to phrase this so I won't out him: have you learnt anything interesting about any of the players?

kilinki - oh Boomslang! even I saw it eons ago and I'm probably worse than SVS at attributing roles to people.
Hedgie - thanks!

[S~V~S]

Boom, I don’t rely much on role analysis~ I think it is very easy to manipulate how info is perceived in the thread when all possible knowledge is far from known (Homestar gives out prizes, for instance; no one has taken this into account that I have seen). TBH, it is why I initially distrusted Nevin. So FHs post about why he can’t be on team X because of Y and unlikely to be on Team Z because of W, etc., is the last thing that would sway me. I tend to ignore that kind of stuff, which is probably why Nevin thought I was drunk, lol.

It was something Nevin himself said during the conversation with BDH the day it all clicked into place for me. I had no preconceived ideas of who he might have been, just something he said made it clear to me.

I will follow the people I trust today, because I agree we should stick together. But I will be pretty surprised if you are not bad, Boom.

[Hedgeowl]

RIPIYWG juliets! Apologies for forgetting. I honestly haven't been doing that for anyone much this game because I keep forgetting and so many people are being rezzed etc.

I don't know what to make of Booms frustration, but it reminds me of how Russti acted as a baddie in Mario. At the time it really made me think he was a civ and doubt myself. So makes me wonder about Boomer, but not enough to vote him now.

[Russtifinko]

I feel like I need to respond to this better. I have never been a huge poster. Sure, over a four-year period of playing, there is the occasional game that I post like fiend. But on the whole I am someone that usually only posts when I feel I have something important or new to contribute to the thread. And when I do post, my posts tend to be fairly long. I am a very analytical person and spend a lot of time thinking. So just because my post count doesn't rival people like DH and Epi doesn't mean I'm not still contributing on a regular basis to the game. Perhaps this should be in off-topic because I am accused of being "more quiet than usual" in almost every game I play and I find myself questioning why this keeps happening to me.

I say something like this every game, too....

[Boomslang]

RIPIYWG juliets! Apologies for forgetting. I honestly haven't been doing that for anyone much this game because I keep forgetting and so many people are being rezzed etc.

I don't know what to make of Booms frustration, but it reminds me of how Russti acted as a baddie in Mario. At the time it really made me think he was a civ and doubt myself. So makes me wonder about Boomer, but not enough to vote him now.

I don't know what to say other than that I legitimately missed the evidence that convinced you. I'll read Nev's quotes more thoroughly when I have time and hopefully get it. But I'm heading out for the rest of the day/evening and need to vote. And I'm going to throw one at Elo, because I think we need to generate some conversation about someone who's essentially an unknown quantity at this point.

[DFaraday]

You are not listening to what I am saying, Boom. I have said all I plan to on this topic.

But this has kinda shot you way up on my list.

You know, this could go either way:
1. He really doesn't know.
2. He's a very clever baddie and he's risking it all.

BWT, cheers for the Fetus insight. Here's what I'm thinking: I may have the numbers wrong; Moriarty is no more (no reveal), Creeper is probably still out there (killed last night); Fetus is probably still out there; Cohen is probably still out there; I may have the numbers wrong; but this is all there is left... and Catherine died somewhere in the process.

I'm very intrigued by Hedgie's analysis of Goosey... and I'm almost inclined to give her a chance based on her last post addressing my suspicions. But there's still the fact that her game has mostly been an indie hunt. And I'm good buddies with the indies, except when they get towards the end and choose the dark side.

I have a role in mind for DF. I'm trying to think of a way to phrase this so I won't out him: have you learnt anything interesting about any of the players?

kilinki - oh Boomslang! even I saw it eons ago and I'm probably worse than SVS at attributing roles to people.
Hedgie - thanks!

I don't know if you could say I've learned very much, really. You're probably on the right track though (at least I hope so ).

And interesting about Mongoose, I've been thinking civ for her for awhile. I'm also still open to an Elo lynch.

[bea]

Ok I have only made it through 4 pages of Mongooses 8 so far. What I did notice is that she is worried about the PP a lot and bring it up often. Having played Mario with her this didnt seem strange to me but coupled with her voting history it makes me wonder more.

Mongoose:
Day 1 INH
Nevinera (5), Flyin' High (6), Dom (7), Mongoose (8), Elohcin (9), juliets (10), Bullzeye (12), Kate (16), S~V~S (18), Spacedaisy (22) 37%

DAy 2 INH
Mongoose (2), Kate (4), DharmaHelper (5), Flyin' High (6), Bullzeye (7), thellama73 (8), birdwithteeth11 (9), blindfaeth (12), Spacedaisy (14),
Nevinera (15), Elohcin (16), AceofSpaces (18), juliets (19), reywaS (22), DisgruntledPorcupine (24), bea (25), DFaraday (28), Dom (29) 60%

Piranha Plant kill was #11 on K4J non-player.

Night 2 shield:
thellama73 (6), blindfaeth (10), Mongoose (21), Flyin' High (22), birdwithteeth11 (23), juliets (24), Boomslang (25) 26%

Day 3:
DisgruntledPorcupine:
Mongoose (8) 4%

Night 3:
Almost all of us voted for DP to be eliminated except for Bea and FH.
Zodac instead choose Dom who was Bob.

Day 4:
DisgruntledPorcupine
Epignosis (2), Mongoose (5), Russtifinko (7), Bullzeye (8), DharmaHelper (9), AceofSpaces (10), DisgruntledPorcupine (11), juliets (12), Elohcin
(14), Boomslang (15), Vompatti (22) 42%

PP killed #17 which was FH.

Night 4:
Voted SVS and Lizzy too.
Kate:
Mongoose (3), bea (8), Epignosis (15), thellama73 (17), Spacedaisy (20), Devin the Omniscient (31), birdwithteeth11 (34), juliets (43), Vompatti (46), Bullzeye (49), AceofSpaces (57) 19%

Day 5:
thellama73:
DharmaHelper (8), Nevinera (10), Devin the Omniscient (11), Flyin' High (12), Mongoose (13), juliets (16), Elohcin (19), Bullzeye (21), Epignosis(22), DFaraday (24) 37%

Night 5:
AceofSpaces (23 posts, missed no votes):
Lizzy (7), Devin the Omniscient (8), Nevinera (16), juliets (17), Mongoose (18), bea (19), birdwithteeth11 (21), Flyin' High (22), Russtifinko (23) 39%

Day 6:
BigDamnHero:
BigDamnHero (2), Mongoose (10) 8%

PP picked #9 and K4J absorbed it again.

Day 7:
Vompatti:
DharmaHelper (7), DFaraday (10), Hedgeowl (15), Mongoose (16), juliets (20), bea (23), Spacedaisy (24) 29%

Day 8:
thellama73:
Nevinera (5), blindfaeth (7), DharmaHelper (8), Mongoose (10), juliets (11), birdwithteeth11 (12), Flyin' High (13), bea (14), S~V~S (15), Devin the Omniscient (16), timmer (17), Boomslang (18), Elohcin (19), Spacedaisy (20) 70%

Day 9:
juliets:
Mongoose (8) 8%

Of the votes, Mongoose voted with Kate ttwice when Kate was still living, voted to rezz Kate, and voted with Epi several times. What I find interesting is about the PP plant days is she votes early on days where its 11 and 17, but when its #9 she votes #10 right after it was safe. It just indicates to me that she seem to be voting with knowledge.

The one hitch I had examining her record is it wouldnt make sense for her to vote juliets and then her tean NK juliets that same night, so that gives me pause.

Also, I have been quiet for chunks of this game, because I've had less time to post than in the past and was sick. However, I have posted more than Bwt (who called me quiet) and Lizzy. The people who have posted more than me alive ar Mongoose, bea, SVs, and Nev.

This is an interesting point. I would, however, like to to hear from goosey before I decide what to make of it. I have had consistently good feels about her through out the game. I suppose she could be pulling the wool over my eyes, but I don't understand many of the decisions she's made this game if she isn't civ.

[Mongoose]

Hi Guys!

Lizzy - Unfortunately I didn't intend for it to be an indie hunt, I swears. It just kinda happened that way. I did suss out (in addition to several others who did the same) the Vompire baddy switch. Then I also abstained from voting BWT because I was leaning heavily civ on him, which is why I voted Juliets, even though my pings on her were mild (comparable to how I feel about my mild pings currently).

Of course, in hindsight, I would have sunk my vote for FH rather than Kate. It was pure speculation and feelings at that point. Whomever it was that first ferreted out who it looks like she is was very astute. I am still very impressed by that one.

In RE: Piranha Plant. I was literally so paranoid that entire time it would eat me. I was also terrified during Mario. There were actually a lot of other times I was feeling super edgy about it and didn't post my feelings, so I can imagine how you'd be feeling know if I had! Honestly, it's just one of those things that I feel is Just My Luck. Like getting to the faculty Valentine's Day party right as the last lemon cupcake was being snarfed.

It's one thing to be errantly lynched and then there's a bit of dignity in being NK'd, but dying by plant is possibly the most ignoble way to go (looking forward to your Lil Shop of Horrors, sug!)

In RE: timing of votes. I was super paranoid and voting very strategically based upon which numbers I thought would be not likely picked. It makes me feel good that you guys think my voting record/suspish history is of such a nature that I'm 'informed' but I'm not - but some of it is luck too.

In RE: Voting the Same as Epi. I do this occasionally. It gets me in trouble on Rev more than here for whatever reason. I tend to follow an analytical um more vocal player when I'm on the fence. If I'm already suspicious about a person and one of these very analytical players votes for them, I feel validated in my suspicions and will then go ahead and vote them. Similarly, this happens when I have several suspicions but then I am dubious that maybe my main suspect will get the axe, so I try to lump together in order to try to avoid spreading the vote out. These players, by the way, are DH, SVS, and Epi.Maybe I should become more confident in my game, but remember I am still relatively new to this tomfoolery. I like Lizzy's logic a lot and that's been hard this game since I trust her and her judgment but she suspects DH heartily, who I do not.

Sometimes I feel I am too soft for this game because I feel soooo bad when I'm a part of lynching a civilian. Seriously, I could probably list every civilian I've errantly lynched. Isn't that ridiculous?

Anyway, this is long, so I will wrap this up like a burrito but I will scan to see if I missed anything else you asked me.

[Elohcin]

I too loved that post. I love that everyone recognizes I have a really big sword.

Does anyone have any questions about what I was trying to say when insanified?

Who are trusting for the Night Poll?

I'm voting Elohcin.

Okay...So you all think Epi is PP. I understand. But Epi has not defended me in this game like he has in previous games, so I am not sure why you are suspecting me. He simply said, "I'm voting Elohcin." He probably did this b/c he knew if I got the shield I would most likely pass it to him next. Then, he would have it to keep amongst his team. He is a bit tricksy like that, wouldn't you agree?

[Lizzy]

I too loved that post. I love that everyone recognizes I have a really big sword.

Does anyone have any questions about what I was trying to say when insanified?

Who are trusting for the Night Poll?

I'm voting Elohcin.

Okay...So you all think Epi is PP. I understand. But Epi has not defended me in this game like he has in previous games, so I am not sure why you are suspecting me. He simply said, "I'm voting Elohcin." He probably did this b/c he knew if I got the shield I would most likely pass it to him next. Then, he would have it to keep amongst his team. He is a bit tricksy like that, wouldn't you agree?

He defends you when you're good. So...

[Flyin' High]

@Elohcin: Funny you make that point. I think the lack of Epig claiming "Elohcin is a civ. Trust! " is actually not in your favor. I feel like Epignosis would jump at the chance to gain some civvie cred if you were actually a civvie.

However, that being said, I have no other read on you and don't feel like I can connect you to any players, so my pings about you have more to do with just not feeling like you're playing like a civvie.

[Lizzy]

I'd feel comfortable with a Goosey or SD vote right now. I'm inclined to focus on them because of the Kate vote.

Since Goosey was already a suspect, and because she voted for Kate, I'm going with her today.

[bea]

I will be honestly and genuinely surprised if goosey would flip bad. Her actions this game just don't make sense otherwise.

[Mongoose]

I'd feel comfortable with a Goosey or SD vote right now. I'm inclined to focus on them because of the Kate vote.

Since Goosey was already a suspect, and because she voted for Kate, I'm going with her today.

You'll be sad

That Kate thing was early in the game.I can't believe that is the biggest charge in the case against me.

Hey, you (or anyone actually) didn't respond to my wall of text from earlier. We are probably near half civ half other at this point, so that doesn't make me feel good. Y'all just all know I've tried to help civs when the opportunities arose.

bea - Thanks, lady!

[Mongoose]

Also, for the record:

Hi Guys!

Lizzy - Unfortunately I didn't intend for it to be an indie hunt, I swears. It just kinda happened that way. I did suss out (in addition to several others who did the same) the Vompire baddy switch.

[bea]

goosey - any idea who you will be voting for today?

[Mongoose]

Well, there's only 2 votes cast, so maybe I won't have to vote to protect myself. If I don't, I feel that out of my mild pings, Boomslang is the only one who is approaching tepid levels of heat. Therefore, barring any sudden revelations, I'll consider that. Further, S~V~S seeming to hone in on him too was somewhat corroborative for me since she is El Primo Baddie Hunter. Gonna wait and see what else develops though, to be honest.

[bea]

Fair enough, I've been thinking about Elo for a while now, but tbh, boom's vote for her has me concerned.

[DFaraday]

I don't feel like we can determine much about Elo from Epig's actions, since he'd vouch for her no matter her alignment. However, I think I'm leaning more Mongoose at this point. I do feel like the Kate stuff is pretty solid evidence (and I'm often someone who doesn't even pay attention to evidence).

[bea]

DF - I agree with you about being able to determine much about elo from epi's actions. Mostly. I can still see the scenario where they are both bad.

I don't feel comfortable with a goosey vote. She's pretty consistently defended me and been very vocal about it when I've not made it particularly easy for most to believe that I am a civ. This does not make me wary of you DF - I do still have good feels about you too, I just don't understand why she would defend me so hard and hint that she knows more about my rez than I do if she was bad. It would have been far easier for her to let me get lynched. Also, I think she may have been involved in what SVS has referred to as "night things bea related." I could be misreading what svs is hinting at, but I don't think so.

I'm going to do some running around with the hubby - YAY WE GET TO GO GET HIS CAR OUT OF THE SHOP! I'll be following along on my phone so forgive me if I start with the short, not spelled in anyway or probably horrifically full of auto-correct type posts.

[S~V~S]

I don't love the kate vote as a litmus test, since even if all of her theoretical teammates voted for her, still more people that were NOT her teammates voted for her, too. As a matter of fact, i hate it. So i also hate Faradays post up there^^

I don't want to split things up too much. So I will not vote on a tangent belief, i think that is too risky today. I think todays posts will tell us alot regardless of what happens. And Bea, I also feel warm, happy thoughts about goosey. And that is exactly how i play my baddie game myself. So her defending you, buddying up, as it were, like Boom accuses Timmer of, does not make one a civvie.

And Boom, I was not saying you were wrong about Tim~ i am saying the reasons why were wrong from my perspective.