[END] Hope Keeps On Going - Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc Mafia

[Sloonei]

By the way, I've noticed that many of you use "bad" for mafia, hope my definition of mafia (scum) won't make anyone offended or something, it's just the culture on my site. I'll use wolf from now on, I'm liking it better.

Nah, you’re good. I use terms interchangeably without a second thought. Bad and scum are just words to identify alignment, it’s all groovy.

[Long Con]

I'm down with bad, scum, wolf, mafia, baddie, evildoer, murderer, and any more creative terms.

[tedxtr]

I see a common thing where you keep diminishing your plays as not worthy of your performance as scum here. Why would that be the case, given you already said weren't into this game much?

I don't really like this justification and if you're town, I'll request you stop arguing with that reasoning. Strongest players / experienced players can also have bad games, and they will slip in some way, even if it's not caught by someone.

====

I'm not lynching in Creature, Long Con, Trustworthy Liberal, Rej.

I'm less confident on Turnip Head

Less so on TSP.

And then I have a huge null - scum pile , that is you, fayt, sig and Okosan.

I think the reveal thing out of fayt was really townie, so I'm willing to one up her to like the same level of Turnip Head.

[tedxtr]

Right now I'm considering the option of Epi voters on Day 1 as an alternative, I feel like people would fear him the most, and thus, would like to be on his lynch, or to advocate for it in some sort of way.

[tedxtr]

I have like semi-valid mechanical reasons for town reading Sig also here. So that literally just leaves you and Okosan. Even without my case. I have nothing townie on you 2.

If I'm wrong on someone it's probably creature, but I don't want to lynch him because I want to see something. He's gonna get lynched regardless at some point, so that's a freebie.

[tedxtr]

Like, even if I had a metric for your scum play, I still wouldn't be able to apply it in this game as there are numerous factors to someone playing good / bad. So it's not really an argument that's in your favour.

[Sloonei]

Responding to Theodore Xtr’s Big List of Town reads one by one. On my phone still, so I’m not gonna try to clip a big quote.
Note that none of what I’m about to say constitutes a read on any of the players in question. I’m merely going to comment on whether or not I agree with the reasons tedxtr supplies for town reading these folks.

Long Con - Disagree. Tedxter cites an exchange between LC and myself where LC raises a token eyebrow at me for jokingly submitting myself to monokuma. Ted argues that it looks like genuine paranoia and that mafia would “focus on other stuff.” To that I ask: what other stuff would mafia be focused on?
There is nothing in that brief exchange between LC and I that does anything to clear him. It was an easy read to fake and he’s as clever as they come. But ted also mentions “derp clears”, and I’d like to know what that refers to.

Trustworthy Liberal - I do not disagree on the surface, but as I am not privy to ted’s brain or his past history with TLib (I didn’t even know they knew each other), I can’t assess whether or not this read holds any weight. Tedxter, can you provide more context and substance for your Trustworthy Liberal read?

Rej - Disagree, but I can’t say I’ve done my homework on rej. But he and I were scum together recently (The Wire) and he was a pretty composed bad guy. I’ve seen nothing in this game that would be incompatible with WireRej.

Tony - I agree that Tony is town, so there’s that. But tedx doesn’t actually supply much of a reason here.

Jack - was town. That was a bad lynch yesterday.

Turnip Head - Agreed. TH’s progression on Okosan Day 2 looks good ‘n natural.

There are a lot more players in this game that are not covered by this list.

[Sloonei]

I see a common thing where you keep diminishing your plays as not worthy of your performance as scum here. Why would that be the case, given you already said weren't into this game much?

I don't really like this justification and if you're town, I'll request you stop arguing with that reasoning. Strongest players / experienced players can also have bad games, and they will slip in some way, even if it's not caught by someone.

Because these things go beyond “having a bad game” and veer into the territory of “things I’d never do even if I wasn’t paying attention.” Your point about me trying to communicate ungracefully with okosan about his vote in the thread: I’d never in a million years do something like that if he was my partner. If I’m not invested in the game, I probably say nothing. If I am invested, I come up with a much less lazy way to relay my message to him. You don’t need to believe any of this, but it’s true. Someone who’s familiar with my scum game may vouch for me, perhaps.
But there are better ways to make my case than this. I don’t mean for it to be a central point. But I think some meta knowledge of me as a player would help your read a bit, much like how you expressed a town read on TLib based on past experience. The image of Mafia Sloon that you are presenting does not align with any version of Mafia Sloon that has existed in recent memory.

I'm not lynching in Creature, Long Con, Trustworthy Liberal, Rej.

Why not?

I'm less confident on Turnip Head

Less so on TSP.

And then I have a huge null - scum pile , that is you, fayt, sig and Okosan.

I think the reveal thing out of fayt was really townie, so I'm willing to one up her to like the same level of Turnip Head.

what has you feeling a lack of confidence on Turnip and Tony?

What are the strongest points both for and against sig?
I agree with your read on Fayt’s recent reveal.

[Sloonei]

There’s also still the matter of recruitments to keep in mind. I don’t think it will do to let paranoia suspect everybody all the time, but we owe it to ourselves to reassess things evert time a new day phase begins.

[tedxtr]

Trustworthy Liberal, to my knowledge, is literally a newbscum that busyposts to EoD. He's the type of player that, as town, would always engage with the thread in some way. As scum, he's detached from the game and can barely come up with reads.

Granted, this might be outdated meta, since that was literally months ago. I may have to refresh my meta on TL, but this is nothing that looks like his scum game. I played with TL more where he was town than when he was scum.

I'd essentially say that "If TL is busy posting and his tone feels awkward to you, you're probably right on scum reading him"

I know it's misused meta because using meta

To be fair, he hasn't done actual hunting, but in this context, with every role doing some things in the night / gathering intel to fit the puzzle pieces, he'd probably focus more on that.

It's not like he's been super town and putting in a lot of effort, but just him showing up and engaging when he does instead of popping in with filler is a plus sign for him.

[Sloonei]

Fair re: TLib. Meta isn’t a bad thing to use (I’ve been begging you to reconsider me based on meta) as long as it’s dine in moderation and with the acknowledgment that players adapt. You’ve acknowledged that in your TLib read.

[tedxtr]

The reason I'm less confident on Turnip is because he hasn't done anything that couldn't be faked as scum. He has low impact, most of the times he's sheeping, there's no analysis of his own that I can take into account. I guess I'd just like if he struggled more and gave some reads.

Mostly, the thing that Jack put so much stock on doesn't seem town worthy to me. It just, at the very least, proves that he's not Monokuma. Which we already know.

====

TSP I never really town read for something he's done, it was moreso his interaction with me and jack and how they caught the bear, it felt like it was all town talking to each other and felt really refreshing. Other than that, I don't have actual reasons.

I'll re-read Sig and state my final opinion.

[sig]

rip jack you werent mafia. Buuuuut you totally deserve it for getting me lynched ij the wire.

[sig]

I'm not a fan of my name being brought up over and over again by people. Not a fan.

And ted seems super civvies but like he could easily be leading us down the path of despair.

[Sloonei]

The reason I'm less confident on Turnip is because he hasn't done anything that couldn't be faked as scum. He has low impact, most of the times he's sheeping, there's no analysis of his own that I can take into account. I guess I'd just like if he struggled more and gave some reads.

Mostly, the thing that Jack put so much stock on doesn't seem town worthy to me. It just, at the very least, proves that he's not Monokuma. Which we already know.

I’d use this same argument on most of your stronger town reads, though some of them have “mechanics” attached to them and I’m not interested in asking you to reveal that.

TSP I never really town read for something he's done, it was moreso his interaction with me and jack and how they caught the bear, it felt like it was all town talking to each other and felt really refreshing. Other than that, I don't have actual reasons.

I'll re-read Sig and state my final opinion.

I wouldn’t be quick to discard a read like this. If a player feels genuine in the heat of the moment, that’s absolutely worth considering.
In the most recent game I played before this one (the Polka Heist) we had four players who all came to town read each other because we were interacting directly with each other and all felt good about one another. All four of us were town and we won the game.
Recency bias acknowledged.

[tedxtr]

I liked one post from sig but I stopped because I have remembered something

If what Fayt's saying is true, then there was a mafia on day 0 and they knew DDL's identity.

So, I'll also look for distancing and shit etc etc

[Sloonei]

I'm not a fan of my name being brought up over and over again by people. Not a fan.

And ted seems super civvies but like he could easily be leading us down the path of despair.

Is anyone who’s bringing you up a suspect?

Does “the path of despair” mean that ted is bad, or that he’s simply wrong?

[tedxtr]

I'm not a fan of my name being brought up over and over again by people. Not a fan.

And ted seems super civvies but like he could easily be leading us down the path of despair.

I would never afford to do that to you siggie

[Sloonei]

I liked one post from sig but I stopped because I have remembered something

If what Fayt's saying is true, then there was a mafia on day 0 and they knew DDL's identity.

So, I'll also look for distancing and shit etc etc

Explain. I didn’t interpret fayt’s claim this way.

[tedxtr]

And, also, it's not like mafia knows the bear. They don't have the same wincons. etc etc

Mafia does. Well, Junko does.

At the risk of outing myself, Junko definitely knows the bear wincon and knew who Monokuma was.

[Sloonei]

And, also, it's not like mafia knows the bear. They don't have the same wincons. etc etc

Mafia does. Well, Junko does.

At the risk of outing myself, Junko definitely knows the bear wincon and knew who Monokuma was.

Nowhere in this post do I see a suggestion of a Day 0 recruitment.

[Turnip Head]

Sloonei is bae this game. I usually read him pretty well

[tedxtr]

I'm interpreting that as the player with the junko role card being a wolf on d0

linki : not in this post, but I deducted that out of other rules and shit that I talked with okosan

[Turnip Head]

I suspect okosan more than LC. LC's reads feel genuine

[Sloonei]

I'm interpreting that as the player with the junko role card being a wolf on d0

linki : not in this post, but I deducted that out of other rules and shit that I talked with okosan

I’m not.

[tedxtr]

COOO! (Oops this was supposed to be under that)

Coo! (Uh no Okosan didn't? There was a kill N1 so unless you think either Monoluma recruited someone N1 and the got the chance to kill the same night, or Monokuma or town did the killing instead, there had to be a mafia by N0 or N1)

I think you're still not getting it, or maybe I'm not seeing your point.

The first night of the game was Night 1.

Night 1 only occurs after Day 0 and Day 1 end.

My assumption is that recruits can kill on the same night as they've been recruited. I was hunting scum in Day 2 because it's right after Night 1.

COO! (It just seems very unlikely that mafia get to kill the same night that they are recruited. Because what if DDL takes until the end of the night to pick someone? Then mafia just gets screwed. In Okosan's mind it makes a lot more sense that DDL got to start with a recruit on Day 0 or that there's a traitor that started it like mentioned earlier in the game)

[Sloonei]

[mention]Fayt[/mention] should we be assuming that somebody was recruited on Day 0?

[tedxtr]

Not recruited, but rather Junko was a starter mafia.

[Sloonei]

Not recruited, but rather Junko was a starter mafia.

This is absolutely not how I am interpreting it.

[Fayt]

just woke up

Not recruited, but rather Junko was a starter mafia.

this, yes. Junko was a starter mafia and not recruited.

[Sloonei]

just woke up

Not recruited, but rather Junko was a starter mafia.

this, yes. Junko was a starter mafia and not recruited.

Are you sure about that?

[Fayt]

Wait sorry, I read that wrong. :/ They become mafia on night 1 and share the bear wincon along with knowing their identity. NOT day0/day1. My bad.

[Fayt]

I thought it was starter, but I looked back just now to confirm.

[Sloonei]

I see. That was my initial assumption.

[tedxtr]

Are wolves usually multi-tasking on this website?

[Sloonei]

Are wolves usually multi-tasking on this website?

what do you mean?

[Sloonei]

Day 2 began at 9:58 PM EST on Wednesday the 22nd. I am marking this for my own reference and in case others need it. Prior to this, I am assuming there were no official recruits.

[tedxtr]

Are wolves usually multi-tasking on this website?

what do you mean?

As in, if they have an ability and the factional kill, can they do both at the same time?

[Sloonei]

A quick glance at Trustworthy Liberal reveals several posts that immediately stand out as positive:

Spoiler: show

So based off how normal games go (Someone correct me if i am wrong)
we will know if this voting causes a Tie and there for would be randomized if that is correct i think the best course of action is to keep a tie (of two votes possible) this should tell us either a voter if Monokuma due to no tie or (with the current wagons) could tell us turnip is Leon.

COOO! (There's no reason the bear would want to kill the mafia he makes)

He is on a different team then the mafia to my understanding so why not kill them

Coooo! (He's literally MAKING the mafia. Actually why would he be on a different team? Unless you think he just needs to live until the end or something)

Why else would he have a god dam soup kill that could kill the entire game in one night. What i think is that he wants the minimum amount of people alive at the end of the game.

COOOOO? (Also stop town reading Okosan or he's gonna get shot in the night )

Also if i am correct no one dies tonight since no mafia?

All of these posts reflect a player who is actively trying to piece together the puzzle that is this game. That means more to me in this particular game than it normally would, since the setup itself is as great a mystery as player alignments are. This does not look like a player who is anticipating recruitment, which seems to be the implication of Fayt's info.

But all of this is on Day 1.

The soup kill is a single use or 1-shot from how i read it atleast.

No read here, but I want to ask why this is how you read the soup kill mechanic, TLib? Do others see it that way? This is not how I interpreted it, though I assume (hope) there are some limitations on the soup kill. I just don't see anything to suggest it's 1-shot.

So I'm gonna assume whomever Bearo is, he knows Epi fairly well so I think we can discount the new people there. But, at this point we should have a mafia player to hunt right?

Since there was a night kill last night I belive there are Two mafia currenty on top of Monokuma.

This is also not something that I would be inclined to believe, but I'm interested to hear why the theory exists.
I think this sort of speculation is a good look here. Regardless of whether or not this is accurate, TLib is offering mechanical speculation that is off the beaten path, which lends it the appearance of being genuine. I take that as a good sign. There's no reason for a recruited Liberal to fabricate a theory like this.

I feel good about TLib based on mechanical speculation, but I see very little in the way of reads here. They expressed general agreement with tedxter's POE, but no reason beyond "I trust ted." [mention]Trustworthy Liberal[/mention] can you share any reads on any other players?
I'd not be inclined to vote for the liberal in this instance.

[Sloonei]

Are wolves usually multi-tasking on this website?

what do you mean?

As in, if they have an ability and the factional kill, can they do both at the same time?

Oh. Yes, usually, but I suppose it can vary from game to game. Technically the factional kill is a separate ability that is assigned to one member of the team to carry out each night without interrupting their regularly assigned role.

But I believe this game requires that the most recent recruit perform the kill. I can't say for sure what that would do to their other abilities.

[sprityo]

Effective immediately, [mention]Creature[/mention] is being replaced by [mention]speedchuck[/mention]

[speedchuck]

hi

[Sloonei]

[tedxtr]

Effective immediately, @Creature is being replaced by @speedchuck

I thought this was a modkill cuz I saw red and I was hyped creature flipped red

fml

[speedchuck]

wtf these rules

[tedxtr]

speedchuck, i have a town lean on you bud, can you make others see that too por favor?

[speedchuck]

speedchuck, i have a town lean on you bud, can you make others see that too por favor?

I thought you were just hyped that I flipped red?

I'll give it a shot once I've figured out how the win conditions in this game work.

[tedxtr]

If you're town, just play for the sake of winning the game for town and not for a potential moment when you'll be converted, please.

[speedchuck]

If you're town, just play for the sake of winning the game for town and not for a potential moment when you'll be converted, please.

I mean yeah but

There's an invincible unbeatable cult leader

We will all die or be subsumed

We either die town or live long enough to become despair

So how does a townie win? Because 'survive' implies an end to the madness, and I don't see it in the rules yet

[sig]

I'm not a fan of my name being brought up over and over again by people. Not a fan.

And ted seems super civvies but like he could easily be leading us down the path of despair.

I would never afford to do that to you siggie