Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[Long Con]

Dragomir has been replaced by nutella!

I will reveal Prometheus' secret, for fairness.

Prometheus - You can target two players each night. Your main goal is to target each of these roles: Bill Rawls, Serena van der Woodsen, Seamus Fitzroy, Architect, and Lassie. You may choose any of the found roles to die in your place. *secrets* You will bug these roles when you find them, and spy on their ability use and results. Your Win Condition is to correctly name the role of every player at the end of the game.

[Dom]

I have no clue if Jack is town or not. My gut reaction would be town, but I think the only evidence to that end is the WIFOM “oh Jack wouldn’t go after Nutella if he were scum” to which I’ll point out that 1) he might and 2) he backed off.

I understand the wifom element, but him backing off is exactly what made me think he is civ.

[Turnip Head]

@Turnip Head care to respond to Dom’s points about you above?

I basically just want to apologize to Dom for giving him a hard time, it wasn't personal, I just didn't feel like answering his questions.

[Turnip Head]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

This is such a teammate thing to say, specifically the line "I don't suspect Radishes I just don't see anything townie in him"; that's how someone talks about their guilty friend

[MacDougall]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

This is such a teammate thing to say, specifically the line "I don't suspect Radishes I just don't see anything townie in him"; that's how someone talks about their guilty friend

At least someone sees it...

[MacDougall]

By votes jack is a viable partner for radishes.

By tone he’s probably town.

By toan says noted Jack expert Nanook the conqueror.

[MacDougall]

I would have to be super, super wrong about Jack for him to be bad.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to say this. It's implicit that if one has a town read on scum that they are wrong.

I would have to be wrong for Jack to be town here. Yes, very insightful statement indeed.

[MacDougall]

I would have to be super, super wrong about Jack for him to be bad.

Ditto. I’m open to the possibility, and I hope to ISO him myself soon, but I can’t bring myself to shake off my town read.

I keep noticing you earnestly replying to drivel you should be ignoring or eviscerating and I think I've caught you this way before.

[MacDougall]

I have no clue if Jack is town or not. My gut reaction would be town, but I think the only evidence to that end is the WIFOM “oh Jack wouldn’t go after Nutella if he were scum” to which I’ll point out that 1) he might and 2) he backed off.

This is a bad post regardless of Jack's alignment.

[MacDougall]

Anyone want to make poast

[sabie12]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

By votes jack is a viable partner for radishes.

By tone he’s probably town.

By toan says noted Jack expert Nanook the conqueror.

Oh right I forgot I’m only allowed to make RNG reads.

A massive eye roll and a hearty fuck off

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

It’s more that your vote pattern fits a radish teammate

[juliets]

I have read through everything since I got off last night but I haven't assimilated all the theories yet. Plus I was not able to go through Sloonei's long post - I want to do that when I have more time to think about it which is not now. I start this day (Monday) out feeling bad about sabie so I will take a look at her more closely (again) this afternoon. I'm most confused on Mac, Jack and TH. I should just forget about trying to read Jack as he is right, I suck at it. I can't count on Mac being town yet even though I want to and with TH I know I'm seeing him as town because of meta and feel like I need to take a closer look. I'm not going to name my top towns right now because it's night and I'm old school. I'll work toward publishing a rainbow or GTH after day starts.

One other thing I want to say, I am rethinking my G-Man position based on his post last night. The theory that G-Man and Radishes were teammates really clicked with me last night and made me see voting for G-Man and voting for Radishes was basically the same thing. But his post leaves me believing he is town after all. I empathize with his feeling of the game being overwhelming and wanting to die soon if he's going to die - I have more time than he does and can barely keep up.

I have to be at work early this morning and probably have to stay late though I will get away as soon as I can because I have a lot to process here. And finally for now, welcome back [mention]nutella[/mention] I hope you are town because your thoughts help me a lot.

[sig]

A question: if we all know what a derp looks like, and we all could reasonably emulate it, why don’t you see it more often? I can’t remember the last time scum town cleated themself with something like that.
The only possible example in this game is Sig going after Radish for saying baddie. Sig might have been right. Ironically, because he might have been right, I need to re-examine Sig.

Yea maybe listen to sigs wild theories next time and we could've lynched scum day 1.

[sig]

Someone, not me since I'm lazy, should reread my calling out radish for the slip and see who defended him.

Ik nanook 1.0 and SVS did, but unless she's going for a bussing strategy I dont see any teammate potential

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

A question: if we all know what a derp looks like, and we all could reasonably emulate it, why don’t you see it more often? I can’t remember the last time scum town cleated themself with something like that.
The only possible example in this game is Sig going after Radish for saying baddie. Sig might have been right. Ironically, because he might have been right, I need to re-examine Sig.

Yea maybe listen to sigs wild theories next time and we could've lynched scum day 1.

Uh listening to you D1 wouldve TKed me, so....pass

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

This is such a teammate thing to say, specifically the line "I don't suspect Radishes I just don't see anything townie in him"; that's how someone talks about their guilty friend

That sounds a lot like what I said about radishes D1 tbf

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Welcome back nutella!

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It still wasn’t a slip btw, baddie is literally in the OP

A slip would’ve been something like referring to someone by their real name when he’d have no way of knowing that in thread, for example

[tedxtr]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

Spoiler: show

Alright, I didn't know what to start with but I guess I'll take this at a time when I'm actually able to analyse stuff on PC. Let's enter sabie's mind a little bit.

Sabie, admittedly, has avoided the Radishes wagon and decided to vote for him instead. The main reasoning was that his gameplay was reminiscing of a mafia meta. That's fine.

What isn't fine is how Sabie goes around the bolded and red line. It's something about the second sentence that strikes me as an odd thing to see from an uninformed PoV. Allegedly, sabie has already faltering reasons for scum reading Mac, which is meta. I honestly don't agree with mac aligning himself with his past mafia self so I'd really appreciate if sabie can describe to me how mac's different.

I'll cut to the chase, from a town PoV, mac's recent play was fairly good and I'd reckon a meta read would falter easily, but sabie's stiff on that read. The second line comes from a scum PoV that basically says "Oh well I'm being pushed for scum reading mac but we don't even know he doesn't flip scum here" which subtly hints towards the idea of sabie believing her read but I interpret that as having other underlying reasons for scum reading mac that sabie can't out, because it's the type of feels that scum teams have on the opposing team's scums, if that makes sense (also, the "we don't even know if he's flipping baddie speaks from a mindset of "well we don't know what he'll flip" - lol, obvious, but the point i was making was that this is said implies that sabie is unsure of the read herself, which, if she is, why does she seem to not be and if she's not, then why is she saying "we don't know"?). I interpret it that way because no way is sabie that confident in Mac flipping wolf off meta, especially when he's obviously not scum based on meta , so she is secretive of other aspects that make her truthfully believe mac's scum with conviction.

Firstly, why'd you even base it off accuracy? That's what scum look for, lynching other scums and getting the credit. Mac flipping wolf by no means absolves you of anything, but it is a scum thought more than it is a town thought, because you think it'd make you look good for lynching scum when you're just playing according to your wincon.

And the crucial point I wanted to emphasize on is that sabie is virtually saying "let him flip wolf and that will confirm me" instead of explaining WHY she believes he's scum and burying him to death. That signals that she acknowledges her push is wrongly based but the ultimate conclusion that she draws out of it is that "the means which you get through to scum read someone don't matter if they ultimately flip scum" which I perceive to be a wolf thought rather than a civvie one, hope that made some sense.

Summary, sabie's bolded line expresses a thought of "follow me on mac, flip him and prove him wrong" even though her reasoning for scum reading him shouldn't reflect that type of thought, which is a meta read that, from my PoV, doesn't fit at all. The "we don't even know if mac is bad" is speaking more from a wolf mindset of "the means which you get to a scum read on someone doesn't matter as long as they flip wolf" which is more unlikely to come from a town that meta read someone at the last minute as mafia, it's also a pre-emptive defence. I don't think Sabie actually believes in mac flipping wolf and she seems to imply it heavily in this post, I can't see sabie scum reading mac heavily off a meta read, unless there were underlying reasons that she wouldn't be able to pinpoit because they heavily rely on what scum factions feel for slots, which town have no knowledge of.

Let's take a look :

I've also not been a fan of TH this game I just read the ISO. My first issue with them at the beginning of the game was making reads with no real explanation. Then their treatment of colin was weird to me like they were so sure its gotta be colin and anyone who thought maybe give colin a chance must be bad too. Now all of a sudden since no one was following that he's onto something else. Shrug idk I don't feel great about him so far.

I think right now though I feel worse about mac. I'm not seeing him as civ and in looking back at other games I could see his responses as a scum mac. He is trying to get people off himself without trying to make cases elsewhere. His blindly following jack on nutella was meh. I know he has a way of trying to sneakily get suspicion in different directions without directly saying it.
[VOTE: mac] aubergine

[mention]sabie12[/mention] could you develop on your reasons for meta reading him wolf and maybe quote some posts from other games that make you feel like they match his current gameplay?

[tedxtr]

@tedxtr Ok. I don't know what to say to that. I've liked your other posts, mostly. /shrug.

Jimmay reminding me that we should probably just lynch Radish.
[VOTE:
Radish] aubergine

This post probably spews dys as not scum partners with radishes. If they were planning a bus, there would've been less hopping around and it seemed like Mac was being a bigger target at that time, so a bus makes no sense here. The credit is virtually non-existent because there wasn't any theatre previously between them two or anything.

somehow town needs to try to come together, form an understanding and cooperate. I generally don't think "Do your thing and I'll do mine" is a winning town mindset. We know scum will work together.

I thought we were and then you flipped on me, you're not even pressuring Jack meanwhile a lazy G-Man snowball rolls down the mountain getting fatter and fatter

We did. We do.

[VOTE: Jack
] aubergine
Ok.

Again, hopping around aimlessly. I believe jack wasn't even a contender at getting lynched, so this reinforces my view on dys as not partners with radishes. They already had all the reasoning to hop on mac.

I want to vote mac but dont know why

Oh too late. Well... I have mixed feelings, but at least something will come out of this

I don’t like Mac being there to scream at the exact right time.

But also I’ve argued for Radish as scum all game, so can’t be mad

yeah this ain't a scum mate chief

I feel Radish will flip town rip

this is never a thought that someone has w/r/t their scum bud being lynched. scum are logical fellows, and if there's one thing that people hate, that's looking bad for being wrong. this just goes to show dys really didn't know radishes alignment and it was the paranoia that stemmed this post, which is intrinsically townie.

[tedxtr]

I think I like Sloonei, but I don't remember why now.

maybe you can dig in memories?

This is two posts from SVS now that have felt like they could be written by a scum. Not that they are, just that they could be.

I certainly don't have a mindmeld with Radishes this game

Possible teammate distancing?

I am here, will catch up and post thoughts later today.

Uh, “champion”!

Going at Iso links and choosing the first.
Strange how he looks non interested in this game

More possible distancing?

This reads like a scum distancing from a person that is painted to be scum distancing from scum radishes.

There's no previous evaluation of Radishes, why does this read even occur like night 0 without any sort of flips? this also levels into nothing in the long run even though TH has mentioned him numerous times in his iso as a lynch candidate even if he hasn't got anything on him

My blacklist in order of lynching priority:

Michelle
Colin
Master Radishes
Sprityo
Sloonei

Well I'm still down for a Radishes lynch as well

[VOTE: MR] aubergine

This progression is scum.

[tedxtr]

nvm it was night one, but there's no flips to add to the development of such a thought

[tedxtr]

We should wagon Dom as well.
[VOTE:
Dom] aubergine

Eh, I liked Dom's limited posts. They seem to fit the little I know of town!Dom.

Not scum with dom

[tedxtr]

Someone else did an early way-too-full reads list too, I think. I can't remember who.

Mac just copied Jimmaaay's. Probably a joke. Jimmay was the one with the full read list. Let's wagon. It's a great idea.

Lmao, you're right.

[VOTE: Vote JayJaggedJimmy] aubergine

inclined to call this a scum vote on a scum partner, his initial push was dismantled to pieces and he took advantage of being presented with another opportunity at what i would perceive as a weak attempt at spewing a scum bud.

like, i'd expect him to iso jjj, it's not like he's voting Dragogone slot or some low hanging fruit

[tedxtr]

the first vote goes on a high posting slot that he basically never expressed a read on and he made it appear like a joke

it's just...weird yo

[tedxtr]

Maybe TH, J have high scum equity with Radishes?

I'll independently ISO G-man but still think he's scum and not voting him is blasphemy to the blood gods that want blood

[tedxtr]

TH - G-Man - JJJ have high scum equity together and with Radishes separately. Huh. Funny.

Radishes not setting up G-man when he was an easy wagon and instead going for me...Why not just vote G-man who's a much easier pick and already has like 4 votes and top wagon when you were in thread. It's literally low hanging fruit. Unless...He was your bud?

some food for thought.

that push on me from radishes was absolute level of bad and he's done it at the time the speed - dys - and whoever else coalition was forming against me, it reeked of scum trying to set up a vote on a potential wagon

[Sloonei]

Maybe TH, J have high scum equity with Radishes?

I'll independently ISO G-man but still think he's scum and not voting him is blasphemy to the blood gods that want blood

No to TH and Jay.

[tedxtr]

I think G-Man / JJJ / TH / Sabie lynches at least 2 of radishes scum buds, in that order

[tedxtr]

oh lol the timing

[tedxtr]

Actually, all your words are washing over me. I'm taking nothing in.

One time on my home forum I spent the entire first round just gif-posting a handful of times and not engaging in the game at all because I was busy. I got myself mislynched D1. But before I went, I made a final serious post in which I named the entire scum team.

Sometimes looking at something from the corner of your eye allows you to see more. /deep thoughts

Scum tbqh

I have a read on this post, TH. I would like to expand. But can you first tell me whether or not you were serious? Unclear

bro ngl this absolutely looks like s/s/s and i'd laugh my ass off if i was right

[Sloonei]

I have a question for the thread that I just want to make sure gets asked before we get too absorbed in interactive analyses: who are the most suspicious players independent of Radishes?

I’m gonna be out for the day. Continue hunting for both teams, y’all.

[Sloonei]

Jay was aggressively anti-radishes from Day 1 and Radishes was fairly anti-Jay as well. There were also several moments in Radishes’ posts that indicated very strongly to me that the vegetables were no aligned together.

Refer to the novel I wrote last night for more details.

[Sloonei]

I will say though that Jay is probably the player I’d be most willing to remove from the “definitely not Radishes’ teammate” list simply because he’s Jay. A hard distancing stance isn’t out of the question. But he never wavered from his Radish vote yesterday even when other options overtook him in the poll.

[tedxtr]

I'm really not sure how I feel about Jimmaaay. He seems kind of controlled or something, which is possibly oof. ButwhatdoIknownothing.

I sort of liked his play from what I'd noticed, but his vote on me is very wagony.

Will ISO Sloonei in a bit, as requested.

Let’s go with a nice rainbow list. Those tend to work well for me this game.

Not at all fond of
Jay – doing nothing of note, but no one is seeing this apparently, so we’ll circle back here later cuz I don’t have the time now

[sabie12]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

It’s more that your vote pattern fits a radish teammate

You also voted mac over radishes so what does that say about you? I have said before I'm not familiar with radishes and had nothing to compare to. I know they are newer here and don't know a lot of people and I didnt know if they came off as scummy because of that. When I played in all my circuits this happened to therealet and everyone gave them a super hard time and they ended up being civ. I didn't have any real read on radishes so I didnt vote there. When I made my post about mac and TH the reason I included both of them is because they were the wagons with the most votes so I put my thoughts on both. Then I saw slooneis post town reading TH which led me more in the direction of voting mac over TH at the time. Then I wasn't around because I was busy IRL. That's about it. I always think it's so funny when people look way too far into what I'm doing when there isn't anything behind it.

[Turnip Head]

>catch a scum on day 1 right out the gate
>skill

[TonyStarkPrime]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

It’s more that your vote pattern fits a radish teammate

You also voted mac over radishes so what does that say about you? I have said before I'm not familiar with radishes and had nothing to compare to. I know they are newer here and don't know a lot of people and I didnt know if they came off as scummy because of that. When I played in all my circuits this happened to therealet and everyone gave them a super hard time and they ended up being civ. I didn't have any real read on radishes so I didnt vote there. When I made my post about mac and TH the reason I included both of them is because they were the wagons with the most votes so I put my thoughts on both. Then I saw slooneis post town reading TH which led me more in the direction of voting mac over TH at the time. Then I wasn't around because I was busy IRL. That's about it. I always think it's so funny when people look way too far into what I'm doing when there isn't anything behind it.

Sabie, can you give me two or three reads? In any direction.

[sig]

I have a question for the thread that I just want to make sure gets asked before we get too absorbed in interactive analyses: who are the most suspicious players independent of Radishes?

I’m gonna be out for the day. Continue hunting for both teams, y’all.

Mac
Sprityo
Dizzy

[sig]

A question: if we all know what a derp looks like, and we all could reasonably emulate it, why don’t you see it more often? I can’t remember the last time scum town cleated themself with something like that.
The only possible example in this game is Sig going after Radish for saying baddie. Sig might have been right. Ironically, because he might have been right, I need to re-examine Sig.

Yea maybe listen to sigs wild theories next time and we could've lynched scum day 1.

Uh listening to you D1 wouldve TKed me, so....pass

[sig]

Also if vig feels so inclined I'd suggest hitting a suspicious low poster.

[sig]

I think TSP theory is interesting, but I don't think it really correlates. Civ points for making a wild theory though.

[sig]

Why is Captain Cold not on the poll?

Because he's been off the show too long. And because he'd just auto-win.

Seriously, Miller and Purcell perfectly encapture the rivalry and friendship of the characters. I stopped watching awhile ago but Flash is basically the perfect level of camp and taking itself seriously that I want from a live action DC show. It's not as good as the DCAU but it's still a lot of fun.

I have seen no dc tv shows

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

[speedchuck]

Scumlynch, nice.

[speedchuck]

I have a question for the thread that I just want to make sure gets asked before we get too absorbed in interactive analyses: who are the most suspicious players independent of Radishes?

I’m gonna be out for the day. Continue hunting for both teams, y’all.

Mac
Sprityo
Dizzy

Last I checked, Dizzy was locktown. What's up?

[sig]

I have a question for the thread that I just want to make sure gets asked before we get too absorbed in interactive analyses: who are the most suspicious players independent of Radishes?

I’m gonna be out for the day. Continue hunting for both teams, y’all.

Mac
Sprityo
Dizzy

Last I checked, Dizzy was locktown. What's up?

I've been saying he may be scum for awhie. Why locked town?

also I don't have like a real case case on him. Mainly tone/yesterday's lynch actions which were odd.

[Jackofhearts2005]

At this point, I’m just rereading all of D2 because I started and stopped in so many places. So if I could magically have time todo that, that would be great.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

This game has been so hard for me to follow It takes me at least a half hour to catch up on reading everything after I leave and come back. I don't know why me voting for nutella who did not flip town and mac who is not confirmed town must mean I'm bad. I voted for mac because I thought his gameplay matched his other mafia gameplay before. We still don't know that mac isn't bad. I can see why people think I'm not playing well this game and that's a fair assessment because I'm having a hard time keeping up and making reads there is so much going on. So yeah I am trying my best and I always think it's better to be honest and to at least try to put my vote somewhere that I think makes sense than to make up fake reads or not vote at all. People always think I'm scummy because my posts are weird and my gameplay style doesn't make sense to them.

It’s more that your vote pattern fits a radish teammate

You also voted mac over radishes so what does that say about you? I have said before I'm not familiar with radishes and had nothing to compare to. I know they are newer here and don't know a lot of people and I didnt know if they came off as scummy because of that. When I played in all my circuits this happened to therealet and everyone gave them a super hard time and they ended up being civ. I didn't have any real read on radishes so I didnt vote there. When I made my post about mac and TH the reason I included both of them is because they were the wagons with the most votes so I put my thoughts on both. Then I saw slooneis post town reading TH which led me more in the direction of voting mac over TH at the time. Then I wasn't around because I was busy IRL. That's about it. I always think it's so funny when people look way too far into what I'm doing when there isn't anything behind it.

It says I’m not cleared of being radishes partner.

It also says I treated him exactly the same way D1, when I was confirmed town


I get it’s probably annoying for you, but like...I’m not saying you’re definitely scum, just that you’re in a pool of people whose voting pattern fits a radish partner.