Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

Would you like to see a hammer lynch tomorrow?

Poll ended at Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:00 pm

Yes
0
No votes
No
3
20%
I don't care
2
13%
MC Hammer (host/dead/nonplayer)
10
67%
 
Total votes: 15
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3401

Post by nutella »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:27 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:20 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:17 pm Nook's contrarian style is getting real old.

Nook. Soften up. Come bake cookies with me. We'll catch more scum with cookies, trust and believe.
I mean that’s just how I am, so. 🤷‍♀️
But cookies =(
I'm in :nicenod:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Day 2]

#3402

Post by Dyslexicon »

Slapping Jack for a bit.

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Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:30 amOr cause Nutella was suddenly more appealing as a lynch considering she was counterwagon to his buddy Radish (which would be convenient considering our top wagons)
^Justifies suspicion on Mac through Mac/Radish connection. (Even with Radish and Mac as our top wagons I think)
Also... then why not lynch Radish? :rolleyes:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:40 pmLike it's a good thing that Radishes flipped wolf because I scumread Mac and I can dig into his interactions but chances are he's not on Radish's team just because two wagons on a 4 person mafia with no flips is just pretty unlikely.
^Mac and Radish connection is now unlikely.
Yeah, I know it's explained in the post. But mehhhh.

Other Jack contradictions includes: "It's stupid to think I'm Radishes teammate!" to "I can see why I look teamed plz suspect me so I won't get NKed haha."

Also I hate this post a lot:
Spoiler: show
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:29 pm SVS is town anyway but it's a good call out. I bet we can clear several people of being Radish's teammate. I don't mind if I'm not on that list. All the better, actually. It's always a winning strategy to have a winning POE that includes me because I'm not getting lynched.

Somebody point me to the final vote count. I'll catch up and find a Radish teammate tonight. :feb:
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NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:14 pm In conclusion,

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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3403

Post by Dyslexicon »

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] When and why did you end up on the Radish wagon?
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3404

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Why do you hate zoidberg? Don’t hate zoidberg. Zoidberg is your friend.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3405

Post by sig »

S~V~S wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:02 pm
sig wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:33 pm

Linki: I think we should pursue obvious links to Radish, but be spending most of the next phase trying to hunt the other team and preferably have one of them as a counterwagon. Usually if you eliminate one team the other doesn't inherit the kill so as long as we don't ignore them I'd say full steam on Radish peeps.
Had something changed? In the past the kill WAS inherited. Is that no longer the norm?

Linki @ jay, that could be because Nanook 1 thought the baddie slip business was lame, and that colored his thoughts.
Last game I played with multiple teams it wasn't but I can't recall where/when that was.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3406

Post by Dyslexicon »

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:34 pm Why do you hate zoidberg? Don’t hate zoidberg. Zoidberg is your friend.
I hated Jack's post. And used your post to express how much I hated it. Not everything is about yoooouuuu :p
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3407

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:34 pm Why do you hate zoidberg? Don’t hate zoidberg. Zoidberg is your friend.
I hated Jack's post. And used your post to express how much I hated it. Not everything is about yoooouuuu :p
But I’m so vain!
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3408

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:34 pm Why do you hate zoidberg? Don’t hate zoidberg. Zoidberg is your friend.
I hated Jack's post. And used your post to express how much I hated it. Not everything is about yoooouuuu :p
But I’m so vain!
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3409

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Goddamn it I hate that I keep double posting.

This is why discourse is better for mafia!
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3410

Post by juliets »

I'm finally home and caught up except I haven't read all of Jay - will finish that momentarily. I want to read through EOD again, painful as that may be, but I will keep this window open and check back frequently for current discussion.

Just some thoughts/questions while reading through -

S~V~S posted that she would be mad if G-Man's AtE turned out to be baddie motivated but she doesn't think it is because he couldn't live with the guilt. That describes what I felt when I read it too but I'm having misgivings after seeing that others aren't giving him an inch of ground on that because he's so compatible with Radish. Reading that post again about not voting for Radishes because of Sloonei was definitely ugh. I'll revisit this issue at some point today.

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] you said you would lynch Jack based on the Radish flip - anything specific you can talk about?

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] you asked why nutella seems off tonally but so far I'm not seeing that. Can you be more specific?

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] you made a comment that the chances of Mac being scum are cut in half after the Radish flip. Maybe I'm taking that too literally but could you talk more about why?

I do agree with the suspicion thats out there about sabie but I need to look at the details to explain it (this thought was triggered by Dizzy's post about her).

I laughed when I got to Dizzy's post about being more confident now - I feel exactly the opposite. I will keep trying though.

Jay's finding about sig being decently compatible with Radishes was a surprise so I want to look into that more. I have avoided looking at sig's ISO because I perceive there's so much.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.

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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3411

Post by Dyslexicon »

I want trough Sabie's ISO to ctrl+F Jack. There's some serious waffles and terrible "I don't see why Jack would go after Nutella if scum, cause Nutella could just flip town." Still votes Nutella. I also love how Sabie votes Mac because he followed Jack blindly, when Sabie was doing exactly the same. (Well, she actually refused to listen to Jack's turn on the read, but you know.. it's still bad).

I don't know if Jack/Sabie is a thing though. Can't really make my mind up. And jack DID turn the Nut read around with competing Nut/Radish wagons.

[mention]Turnip Head[/mention] Real talk. Why in Zoidberg's name do you read Sabie as town?
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3412

Post by Epignosis »

To answer Dyslexicon:
Epignosis wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:33 pm I just tied it up.
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:33 pm

That's the when.

The why was mostly fucking around. I had an early suspicion of Radishes ages ago. No suspicion of Mac. So I did a thing.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3413

Post by juliets »

sig wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 pm
S~V~S wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:02 pm
sig wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:33 pm

Linki: I think we should pursue obvious links to Radish, but be spending most of the next phase trying to hunt the other team and preferably have one of them as a counterwagon. Usually if you eliminate one team the other doesn't inherit the kill so as long as we don't ignore them I'd say full steam on Radish peeps.
Had something changed? In the past the kill WAS inherited. Is that no longer the norm?

Linki @ jay, that could be because Nanook 1 thought the baddie slip business was lame, and that colored his thoughts.
Last game I played with multiple teams it wasn't but I can't recall where/when that was.
Just fyi, every game I've played that I can remember with two teams one team inherited the other's kill when the team was eliminated. I believe that's true for the LC/BR games I have played.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.

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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3414

Post by Epignosis »

I still don't know what a mood is.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3415

Post by nutella »

[mention]juliets[/mention] jack did in fact mean that literally, that mac's chances of being scum are only half of what they were, because he's clearly not on the radish team.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3416

Post by Epignosis »

I can't talk for another twelve minutes.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3417

Post by Dyslexicon »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:46 pm To answer Dyslexicon:
Epignosis wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:33 pm I just tied it up.
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:33 pm

That's the when.

The why was mostly fucking around. I had an early suspicion of Radishes ages ago. No suspicion of Mac. So I did a thing.
Thank yous.

So what you are saying is that you are not on the Radish team, but you are on the Mac team? :charlieblackmon:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3418

Post by sig »

juliets wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:47 pm
sig wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 pm
S~V~S wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:02 pm
sig wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:33 pm

Linki: I think we should pursue obvious links to Radish, but be spending most of the next phase trying to hunt the other team and preferably have one of them as a counterwagon. Usually if you eliminate one team the other doesn't inherit the kill so as long as we don't ignore them I'd say full steam on Radish peeps.
Had something changed? In the past the kill WAS inherited. Is that no longer the norm?

Linki @ jay, that could be because Nanook 1 thought the baddie slip business was lame, and that colored his thoughts.
Last game I played with multiple teams it wasn't but I can't recall where/when that was.
Just fyi, every game I've played that I can remember with two teams one team inherited the other's kill when the team was eliminated. I believe that's true for the LC/BR games I have played.
If that's the case I'd say we hunt the first team down to one if possible, divided kills makes it easier for town to win.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3419

Post by sig »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:47 pm I still don't know what a mood is.
Mood is like a vibe.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3420

Post by nutella »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:47 pm I still don't know what a mood is.
Local robot doesn't understand human emotions, more at 11
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3421

Post by Dyslexicon »

juliets wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:47 pmJust fyi, every game I've played that I can remember with two teams one team inherited the other's kill when the team was eliminated. I believe that's true for the LC/BR games I have played.
That is so anti-town! If town does a great job and gets rid of a whole team, which is damn hard in a miltuball game mind you, then they certainly should not be penalised for it. They should be able to reap the reward. Wow.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3422

Post by Epignosis »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:48 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:46 pm To answer Dyslexicon:
Epignosis wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:33 pm I just tied it up.
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:33 pm

That's the when.

The why was mostly fucking around. I had an early suspicion of Radishes ages ago. No suspicion of Mac. So I did a thing.
Thank yous.

So what you are saying is that you are not on the Radish team, but you are on the Mac team? :charlieblackmon:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3423

Post by nutella »

Real talk tho epi, when young people say things like "mood"or "that's a mood" it means they heavily relate to the sentiment being expressed (sometimes in an abstract/surrealist way)
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3424

Post by Dyslexicon »

nutella wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:51 pm Real talk tho epi, when young people say things like "mood"or "that's a mood" it means they heavily relate to the sentiment being expressed (sometimes in an abstract/surrealist way)
But I'm not young. :llama:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3425

Post by nutella »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:53 pm
nutella wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:51 pm Real talk tho epi, when young people say things like "mood"or "that's a mood" it means they heavily relate to the sentiment being expressed (sometimes in an abstract/surrealist way)
But I'm not young. :llama:
Sorry. Cool people
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3426

Post by juliets »

nutella wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:48 pm @juliets jack did in fact mean that literally, that mac's chances of being scum are only half of what they were, because he's clearly not on the radish team.
Ok so it really is the math - thanks, I can't think that quick through math (sooo embarrassing).
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.

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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3427

Post by S~V~S »

Old people say, "by cracky" and wave their came at you, don't we, Epi?
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3428

Post by Dyslexicon »

nutella wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:54 pmSorry. Cool people
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3429

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Are you the syndicate’s cool aunt
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3430

Post by Dyslexicon »

S~V~S wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:56 pm Old people say, "by cracky" and wave their came at you, don't we, Epi?
I was literally told off by teachers in high school because they thought I used too many archaic words. To show off or something. But I was just born an old lady. :scared:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3431

Post by Dyslexicon »

That was supposed to be in green, cause that is a thing I forget.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3432

Post by juliets »

Can someone tell me what "TK" stands for and "KO" as used in this game?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pm Always good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.

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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3433

Post by Dyslexicon »

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:56 pm Are you the syndicate’s cool aunt
I would love to be. But I think I'm more that distant relative (that nobody is quite sure how they are related) that comes to the Christmas party every year, drinks all the booze and gives everyone matching homemade sweaters and insist they all wear it immediately, then suddenly leaves by broom.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3434

Post by S~V~S »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:58 pm
S~V~S wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:56 pm Old people say, "by cracky" and wave their came at you, don't we, Epi?
I was literally told off by teachers in high school because they thought I used too many archaic words. To show off or something. But I was just born an old lady. :scared:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3435

Post by Dyslexicon »

juliets wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:01 pm Can someone tell me what "TK" stands for and "KO" as used in this game?
Town kill, I guess. Don't know the other one. =p
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3436

Post by Turnip Head »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:44 pm I want trough Sabie's ISO to ctrl+F Jack. There's some serious waffles and terrible "I don't see why Jack would go after Nutella if scum, cause Nutella could just flip town." Still votes Nutella. I also love how Sabie votes Mac because he followed Jack blindly, when Sabie was doing exactly the same. (Well, she actually refused to listen to Jack's turn on the read, but you know.. it's still bad).

I don't know if Jack/Sabie is a thing though. Can't really make my mind up. And jack DID turn the Nut read around with competing Nut/Radish wagons.

@Turnip Head Real talk. Why in Zoidberg's name do you read Sabie as town?
Cuz I know how to think like people who play differently than I do
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3437

Post by Dyslexicon »

I hope that is the abstract way of saying "no comment", SVS, cause I would love that.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3438

Post by Dyslexicon »

Turnip Head wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:03 pmCuz I know how to think like people who play differently than I do
Then think like me and suspect her. :workit:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3439

Post by juliets »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:02 pm
juliets wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:01 pm Can someone tell me what "TK" stands for and "KO" as used in this game?
Town kill, I guess. Don't know the other one. =p
Thanks Dizzy -
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3440

Post by S~V~S »

Hit the wrong button.

When I was in third grade I got sent to the principal for calling my teacher a "harridan" lolol
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3441

Post by Dyslexicon »

Turnip Head wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:03 pmCuz I know how to think like people who play differently than I do
Who be on the Radish team though?
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3442

Post by Dyslexicon »

S~V~S wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:04 pm Hit the wrong button.

When I was in third grade I got sent to the principal for calling my teacher a "harridan" lolol
Lolololol they should've made you the principal instead immediately.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3443

Post by Epignosis »

nutella wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:51 pm Real talk tho epi, when young people say things like "mood"or "that's a mood" it means they heavily relate to the sentiment being expressed (sometimes in an abstract/surrealist way)
Dyslexicon wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:27 pm Epi scum reading and pressuring Ted while at the same time completely ignoring my vote/point against him is such a mood tbh. I don't know what to do with that. Maybe I'm just that inconsequential lol
Dyslexicon wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:31 pm
Epignosis wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:30 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:27 pm Epi scum reading and pressuring Ted while at the same time completely ignoring my vote/point against him is such a mood tbh. I don't know what to do with that. Maybe I'm just that inconsequential lol
1. My vote is already on ted (for now)
2. I don't know what a "mood" is.
3. I don't know why I need to acknowledge your vote or point against him. Do your thing.
You're such a mood tbh :noble:
Then that makes no son of a bitching sense.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3444

Post by Dyslexicon »

Epignosis wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:06 pmThen that makes no son of a bitching sense.
I used it the wrong way, cause I'm not as cool as Nut, but don't tell her. :scared:
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3445

Post by sabie12 »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:04 pm
Turnip Head wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:03 pmCuz I know how to think like people who play differently than I do
Then think like me and suspect her. :workit:
You stopped suspecting me though. Like I asked why you are so hard on me and why you've been pretending like you know anything about me or my playstyle and you're like eh idk. You suspect me for being waffley when you yourself have been waffley.
I'll openly admit that I've been waffley because I don't know for sure who is bad and I'm doing the best I can to figure it out.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3446

Post by nutella »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:08 pm
Epignosis wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:06 pmThen that makes no son of a bitching sense.
I used it the wrong way, cause I'm not as cool as Nut, but don't tell her. :scared:
Hm I kiiinda think the way you used it makes some sense and my explanation didn't really account for it. More of a sarcastic usage i suppose.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3447

Post by Dyslexicon »

sabie12 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:12 pmYou stopped suspecting me though. Like I asked why you are so hard on me and why you've been pretending like you know anything about me or my playstyle and you're like eh idk. You suspect me for being waffley when you yourself have been waffley.
I'll openly admit that I've been waffley because I don't know for sure who is bad and I'm doing the best I can to figure it out.
Radish flipped scum and you look like his teammate. Is that not clear? If you want to clear yourself, find Radishes teammates.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3448

Post by Dyslexicon »

nutella wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:14 pmHm I kiiinda think the way you used it makes some sense and my explanation didn't really account for it. More of a sarcastic usage i suppose.
Let's just say I elevated the use with added sarcasm.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3449

Post by sabie12 »

Dyslexicon wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:15 pm
sabie12 wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:12 pmYou stopped suspecting me though. Like I asked why you are so hard on me and why you've been pretending like you know anything about me or my playstyle and you're like eh idk. You suspect me for being waffley when you yourself have been waffley.
I'll openly admit that I've been waffley because I don't know for sure who is bad and I'm doing the best I can to figure it out.
Radish flipped scum and you look like his teammate. Is that not clear? If you want to clear yourself, find Radishes teammates.
I'm working on it at my own pace. I could see gman or nanook at this point. And I did read Ted's tldr post about me but you're right me sitting here defending myself over and over about voting mac isn't helpful so ima focus more on isos and figuring things out this day phase.
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Re: Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [Night 2]

#3450

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

juliets wrote: Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:01 pm Can someone tell me what "TK" stands for and "KO" as used in this game?
I use TK (Town Kill) because I don’t like lynch. Idk what KO is in this game, knockout maybe
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