Assassin's Creed Mafia (OVER!)

[ts account]

They start off fine, but arriving at the conclusion that Funnygurl must be lying... because eagles... or something... doesn't feel like honest solving to me.

I never brought up eagles. That was all funnygurl. Which part of the progression do you dislike or not follow?

>Mac’s pirate ship makes him immune to abilities by players who are not also on pirate ships.
>funnygurl claims to have targeted Mac on Night 1.
>funnygurl says she thinks Mac used his pirate ship Night 1.
>funnygurl confirms she does not have a pirate ship, in which case she would not have been able to target Mac had he been on his ship Night 1.

Do you disagree that there is potential for her to be caught in a lie here? It is not confirmed and I do not intend to act like it is. But this absolutely should he explored before we make a decision. I don’t see how we could justify not talking about it.

Well, it kind of hinges on the assumption that none of the wolves had read the flips... Because then otherwise they would have claimed to have a pirate ship. It also means that wolves wanted to ensure Epignosis sunk here, which, why? He claimed to roleblock Sloonei Night 2. That's pretty close to being the lynch anyway. Wolves do not need to push it any further. Trying to push the pirate ship angle just does not do a lot for me.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When I ask my intuition what I think of Funnygurl's claim, the following points spill from my gut:

1) While there's a clear motive for a fake cross-claim of this sort at LyLo, she made the claim quickly enough after Epi's that I have to wonder if she even had time to a) conceive of a threat in Epi's claim to her win condition, b) devise a counter-claim that would make him look bad, and c) execute that claim publicly.

2) At face value, I don't think she looks dishonest. I have never seen her lie; I dunno.

3) Epi claimed to be a roleblocker, and countering that to lynch him doesn't even seem necessary. It's a predominantly mafia-aligned role anyway.

[ts account]

I need to stop responding to you, otherwise I might tinfoil a world where you miscount parity and shoot a partner for safety.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I am only barely here at present. Regarding a "mass claim" -- I don't see a problem with it off-hand assuming all rules are respected. The game hangs in the balance after all, and if some key information is withheld too carefully that would otherwise influence reads, then that's not ideal.

Such an action really depends upon the roles in question and how individuals feel they may be able to take advantage of them. I only advise that too much caution right now is of little benefit. LyLo.

Who are you? Role

[Sloonei]

When I ask my intuition what I think of Funnygurl's claim, the following points spill from my gut:

1) While there's a clear motive for a fake cross-claim of this sort at LyLo, she made the claim quickly enough after Epi's that I have to wonder if she even had time to a) conceive of a threat in Epi's claim to her win condition, b) devise a counter-claim that would make him look bad, and c) execute that claim publicly.

2) At face value, I don't think she looks dishonest. I have never seen her lie; I dunno.

3) Epi claimed to be a roleblocker, and countering that to lynch him doesn't even seem necessary. It's a predominantly mafia-aligned role anyway.

These are all points on my mind as well, for the record.

At the end of the day we’ll never know what mac did.

[ts account]

I am only barely here at present. Regarding a "mass claim" -- I don't see a problem with it off-hand assuming all rules are respected. The game hangs in the balance after all, and if some key information is withheld too carefully that would otherwise influence reads, then that's not ideal.

Such an action really depends upon the roles in question and how individuals feel they may be able to take advantage of them. I only advise that too much caution right now is of little benefit. LyLo.

Who are you? Role

It is probably better to start off the massclaims with the next wolfiest people. Since the mechanical dichotomy already claimed, it makes more sense to have you/speedchuck/long con/me claim first, and have sloonei/jjj/nutella claim afterwards.

[nutella]

my analysis could just be wrong then. perhaps i couldn't have watched mac if he did use his power n1

but that just means he either used it n2 or holstered it. but i assumed eagles could find pirate ships 'cause eagles can fly over water

lmao

[Funnygurl555]

Master Radishes [4]: Funnygurl, Epi, Long Con, Turnip Head
Turnip Head [4]: MacDougall, Master Radishes, Sloonei, speedchuck
speedchuck [3]: tedxtr, ts account, TonyStarkPrime

speed's town now right? he was that last vote for turnip 8 min before eod

Eh, I'm not taking this as a clear, could always be a hard bus for cred or just a gamble he took hoping it would work out. Also, there's still a possibility that he knew TH would be safe due to some votecount-or-tie-affecting mechanic known only to the mafia. So I wouldn't totally clear him based on that. Especially if he knew this, he'd know Radish would be mislynched and he'd get to look like he was on the right side of history there. Maybe you're thinking exactly what he wanted you to think.

[Funnygurl555]

i'm really liking the omg emoji

[nutella]

For me, the Dragomir kill as opposed to a Sloonei/Mac kill makes tremendous sense to have been executed by exactly Sloonei and/or Mac. That he was killed over me, also makes me suspect that the kill was fired from someone/s whose bulk are inside my hypothesised town core, or at least quite comfortably nullish (perhaps a TonyStarkPrime).

I strongly feel like LC/Speedchuck combinations usually shoot me. Epignosis can go either way as I know he tends to let others make decisions about kills.

I spent a lot of this day 2 fucking around doing nothing and drew nearly no suspicion from anyone. I feel pocketed.

It's just that there is no world in which Sloonei is the right lynch. He is the town captain and his effort is incredible so far going far beyond anything he mustered in the GOC. And if he is town and we flip him it's almost game throwing. So if not him, then whom? Who makes a decision to shoot Dragomir that isn't Sloonei? Can a team that has Long Con and/or Speedchuck and/or Turnip Head in it choose to shoot him? I really don't think so. Then again perhaps this is all just wifom. But wifom is garbage reasoning. Turnip Head shoots Sloonei I feel. Speedchuck and LC shoot Mac? It might be galaxy brain but I almost want to townclear all three of them because of this. Unless TH and Sloonei are teammates? Actually I think they might be? They were both towncored by me.

I am wondering whether TS Account's game quality here has risen exactly because of his alignment (and contributing partners)? Or perhaps the same can be said for Funnygirl? But Funnygirl's schtick of begging Mikey to find her ... is that in range for any scum to play up to that degree? I ... don't think so.

Master Radishes is the one who can be scum in any combinations though. He has no reason to prefer to shoot me or Sloonei. Maybe that makes him town? He is hung out to dry?

I think TSP qualifies as someone who would not have shot Drago too tbh.

I think the team is Sloonei + Turnip Head + one of Mikey/Funnygirl ... probably Funnygirl?

If so I am shot tonight and they're going to win so I'm probs just gonna meme now.

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

Interesting

[TonyStarkPrime]

I am only barely here at present. Regarding a "mass claim" -- I don't see a problem with it off-hand assuming all rules are respected. The game hangs in the balance after all, and if some key information is withheld too carefully that would otherwise influence reads, then that's not ideal.

Such an action really depends upon the roles in question and how individuals feel they may be able to take advantage of them. I only advise that too much caution right now is of little benefit. LyLo.

Who are you? Role

It is probably better to start off the massclaims with the next wolfiest people. Since the mechanical dichotomy already claimed, it makes more sense to have you/speedchuck/long con/me claim first, and have sloonei/jjj/nutella claim afterwards.

I don’t care about powers. I care about characters. For a reason I’m not currently willing to specify

[ts account]

I don’t care about powers. I care about characters. For a reason I’m not currently willing to specify

Then why would you ask for the role?

[nutella]

my analysis could just be wrong then. perhaps i couldn't have watched mac if he did use his power n1

but that just means he either used it n2 or holstered it. but i assumed eagles could find pirate ships 'cause eagles can fly over water

Sorry, what? I need you to rephrase this.

i think the best time to go on the pirate ship is n1, so you could potentially use it more times. sloonei's suspecting me because i think mac used it n1 but i also watched him n1. i kinda assumed that i could watch him anyways 'cause if he goes on a ship then while he's unreachable to regular ol' humans my eagle could fly and reach a pirate ship.

but if that's not the case then me successfully watching mac n1 means he didn't use it n1

okay I’ve had enough
Vote FG

it’s Epi FG Speed lock it in

I aint locking anything in

[Sloonei]

They start off fine, but arriving at the conclusion that Funnygurl must be lying... because eagles... or something... doesn't feel like honest solving to me.

I never brought up eagles. That was all funnygurl. Which part of the progression do you dislike or not follow?

>Mac’s pirate ship makes him immune to abilities by players who are not also on pirate ships.
>funnygurl claims to have targeted Mac on Night 1.
>funnygurl says she thinks Mac used his pirate ship Night 1.
>funnygurl confirms she does not have a pirate ship, in which case she would not have been able to target Mac had he been on his ship Night 1.

Do you disagree that there is potential for her to be caught in a lie here? It is not confirmed and I do not intend to act like it is. But this absolutely should he explored before we make a decision. I don’t see how we could justify not talking about it.

Well, it kind of hinges on the assumption that none of the wolves had read the flips... Because then otherwise they would have claimed to have a pirate ship. It also means that wolves wanted to ensure Epignosis sunk here, which, why? He claimed to roleblock Sloonei Night 2. That's pretty close to being the lynch anyway. Wolves do not need to push it any further. Trying to push the pirate ship angle just does not do a lot for me.

In the world where funnygurl is lying, she simply got overeager with her claim. It could happen.
Ensuring the lynch of any player who’s not one of them secures a win. They wouldn’t need to single out Epi, but he was looking like the most viable candidate out of the gate. He probably still is.

As big a concern, or perhaps bigger, is funnygurl’s claim itself: Epi + 2 dead players targeted Mac, a dead player. There is no one else who can confirm or deny that claim.

To be clear, my mind is not made up on any of this. These are questions I have to ask myself, and so I am vocalizing them here. I want to explore as many possible angles as we can before we decide this lynch.

[speedchuck]

@speedchuck
Have you claimed a role yet? If not, please do.

Has everyone else? I'm not caught up but it still seems like a terrible idea

[Sloonei]

I think Tony is my most trusted non-confirmed player at this point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am only barely here at present. Regarding a "mass claim" -- I don't see a problem with it off-hand assuming all rules are respected. The game hangs in the balance after all, and if some key information is withheld too carefully that would otherwise influence reads, then that's not ideal.

Such an action really depends upon the roles in question and how individuals feel they may be able to take advantage of them. I only advise that too much caution right now is of little benefit. LyLo.

Who are you? Role

It kind of ruins my mysterious godly aura to talk about me.

[nutella]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

Your flavor argument about the eagle flying is complete and utter bullshit. Watching someone is targeting them. The wording about targeting is pretty damn clear.

[Sloonei]

Then again, we only have nutella and jay’s word that they’re to be trusted.

I don’t doubt them, and they confirmed that they were responsible for me having a gun last night, but

[nutella]

In fact, we know that "watching" counts as targeting since you saw Drago target Mac. Drago targeted him with a watch.

[Funnygurl555]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

Your flavor argument about the eagle flying is complete and utter bullshit. Watching someone is targeting them. The wording about targeting is pretty damn clear.

i was the one w/ the "eagles can fly" argument though

[nutella]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

Your flavor argument about the eagle flying is complete and utter bullshit. Watching someone is targeting them. The wording about targeting is pretty damn clear.

Sorry, FG's argument, not mikey's. Thought this quote was FG lol. Still

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Then again, we only have nutella and jay’s word that they’re to be trusted.

I don’t doubt them, and they confirmed that they were responsible for me having a gun last night, but

Y'all would be well-advised to trust us and consider our words. You can't lynch us anyway. Beyond that, it's not especially productive to wonder if we're super secret meanies.

[nutella]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

Your flavor argument about the eagle flying is complete and utter bullshit. Watching someone is targeting them. The wording about targeting is pretty damn clear.

i was the one w/ the "eagles can fly" argument though

Well Mikey seemed to think it made sense. I think you're both full of shit.

[Funnygurl555]

well now we're getting into a tricky gray area, because this raises the question of whether or not there is anything in the language of your role card that implies this would be the case, but asking that feels unethical and I wouldn't want to do anything that could possibly break the game. All I will say is that Mac's role card indicates firmly that no one should be able to target him unless they also have a pirate ship and are using it at the same time as he is. There is no hint of exceptions in his role card. You've already told us you don't have a pirate ship.

It is super easy to justify flavorfully, and the role PMs have already shown to have unclear wording at times.

Your flavor argument about the eagle flying is complete and utter bullshit. Watching someone is targeting them. The wording about targeting is pretty damn clear.

i was the one w/ the "eagles can fly" argument though

Well Mikey seemed to think it made sense. I think you're both full of shit.

i am full of shit but i'm also town

[ts account]

Sorry, FG's argument, not mikey's. Thought this quote was FG lol. Still

Even with the massive tonal gap... Impressive. I am just saying, I have not been able to fully understand a single darned role in this game after a single read.

I still do not know how Dragomir's role worked, because I only read it once.

[nutella]

There, I know I am town, so the wolves can go ahead and hammer. They are not doing so, so I cannot help but be certain that Epignosis is mafia (and furthermore that funnygurl is not).

This is fun

I mean you're probably right. But still

[TonyStarkPrime]

I don’t care about powers. I care about characters. For a reason I’m not currently willing to specify

Then why would you ask for the role?

That’s what I thought the role was

[ts account]

There, I know I am town, so the wolves can go ahead and hammer. They are not doing so, so I cannot help but be certain that Epignosis is mafia (and furthermore that funnygurl is not).

This is fun :wine:

I mean you're probably right. But still XD

No point in living in worlds where mafia choose not to win, imo.

[nutella]

Sorry, FG's argument, not mikey's. Thought this quote was FG lol. Still

Even with the massive tonal gap... Impressive. I am just saying, I have not been able to fully understand a single darned role in this game after a single read.

I still do not know how Dragomir's role worked, because I only read it once.

I don't understand your point. What is the highlighted portion even referring to

[ts account]

I don't understand your point. What is the highlighted portion even referring to

Tonally, I should sound nothing like "ya girl".

[nutella]

Oh just that I confused your post for fg? Lol sorry. Reading quickly

[nutella]

I mean, it's sort of due to the fact that you backed up the silly flavor thing. That's just silly.

[ts account]

I mean, it's sort of due to the fact that you backed up the silly flavor thing. That's just silly.

She has an eagle. It's already silly.

[Funnygurl555]

I don't understand your point. What is the highlighted portion even referring to

Tonally, I should sound nothing like "ya girl".

ok i lol'd irl yeah nutella mikey types normally and i type like i'm a teenager on a flip phone

[ts account]

Here is the thing. According to the wiki, Bayek is literally able to see through the eyes of Senu with Eagle Vision. So, it is not a stretch and in fact is rather quite intuitive to believe that the role works outside normal resolution, similar to a commuter.

[nutella]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

I agree with this as well.

Though if he took a shot and FG is telling the truth, it would have failed as Epi would have blocked it.

True true.


Wait.

I just realized something obvious.

FG also saw Ted and Drago target Mac N1, yes?

They don't have pirate ships.

So that further corroborates that Mac didn't use it N1.

That whole argument was stupid.

[nutella]

Unless.... if Epi blocked him with another ship, could that supersede the whole thing??


Shit this may be more complicated than I realize

[nutella]

Wait no Epi doesn't have a ship. Never mind. I'm going loopy just ignore me

[Sloonei]

I mean, it's sort of due to the fact that you backed up the silly flavor thing. That's just silly.

She has an eagle. It's already silly.

The sillyest of all, utter poppycock if you’ll pardon me, however, is this ludicrous suggestion, deprived of all empirical evidence, whereby a lone eagle could triumph over an entire seaward vessel! I will not have it.

[nutella]

There, I know I am town, so the wolves can go ahead and hammer. They are not doing so, so I cannot help but be certain that Epignosis is mafia (and furthermore that funnygurl is not).

multiple players are not here right now.

Yeah that's why all this hammer analysis is unreliable and obnoxious

[ts account]

True true.


Wait.

I just realized something obvious.

FG also saw Ted and Drago target Mac N1, yes?

They don't have pirate ships.

So that further corroborates that Mac didn't use it N1.

That whole argument was stupid.

:haha:

Well, the idea is that Funnygurl could be lying. I personally do not believe it, but some people do.
We are also ignoring the possibility that Mac can still be targeted, and shown as targeted, but actions simply fail. Though in that instance Funnygurl's watch would still have to be immune to the fail effect.

[Sloonei]

Some stuff that hits slightly different if he sometimes has immunity. Can’t decipher if he expected to be immune night one or night two.

I'm sorry, but I do not get the same analysis here as you do. It looks to me like he is just including himself in the PoE. I would also expected MacDougall to have claimed the shot.

If he had shot night 1?

Specifically, if he had shot Dragomir.

I agree with this as well.

Though if he took a shot and FG is telling the truth, it would have failed as Epi would have blocked it.

True true.


Wait.

I just realized something obvious.

FG also saw Ted and Drago target Mac N1, yes?

They don't have pirate ships.

So that further corroborates that Mac didn't use it N1.

That whole argument was stupid.

The argument would be that funnygurl’s claim is fake.

[Funnygurl555]

y'all are thinking too much

this is simpler than you're making it out to be. like i get why you have to do this, but still. idk what to do other than make faces at my laptop

[ts account]

y'all are thinking too much

this is simpler than you're making it out to be. like i get why you have to do this, but still. idk what to do other than make faces at my laptop

You could help us think too much to make it be over sooner.

[Sloonei]

y'all are thinking too much

this is simpler than you're making it out to be. like i get why you have to do this, but still. idk what to do other than make faces at my laptop

Find epi’s teammates

[Funnygurl555]

y'all are thinking too much

this is simpler than you're making it out to be. like i get why you have to do this, but still. idk what to do other than make faces at my laptop

You could help us think too much to make it be over sooner.

my brain is a bad place to be in have you seen my wall posts

[nutella]

I... really think massclaiming is the right thing to do. If JJJ disagrees, then I cannot really push the issue further, but I believe it would increase our odds of winning, however slight.

Why?

It gives us a clearer mechanical picture of what happened on nights 1 and 2, it has a chance for us to structure a plan of action to lock a winning night phase, and it gives mafia a small chance to out themselves.

I think it's fairly likely the mafia have fakeclaims, fwiw. As someone who won a game as scum with fakeclaims where massclaiming ended up helping my team (Fire Emblem), I'd be careful with this.

[Funnygurl555]

y'all are thinking too much

this is simpler than you're making it out to be. like i get why you have to do this, but still. idk what to do other than make faces at my laptop

Find epi’s teammates

D:

[nutella]

Is it bad if I still wolf read you for tone, behavior, and asking terrible questions all day?
I just have to keep in mind that if you were a wolf, you would have already won last night.

If you want to believe Sloonei is a wolf, you have to believe that he vigged his own teammate.

I realize that's not impossible, but knowing Sloonei I find it extremely unlikely.