Corrupt!? Mafia (ENDGAME)

[MacDougall]

I want people to tell me if they have strong feelings in a way that I can understand. If you want me to get this shot right and you feel strongly:

a) Don't insult me for my existing reasoning
b) Clearly explain your reasoning with work, help me see what you see

Otherwise you're just being unhelpful.

[Funnygurl555]

damn there wasn't much to sift through.

my only objection to a jack shot is if he's town, then what? it's an inconsequential kill if he is

So what town kill would be consequential?

ppl who talked idk

you do you man

Lol don't do that. Stand by your opinion. Jack has made plenty of posts you know. He's not a low poster. He just feels like that because he's made no impact.

Which people who've talked should I kill if not Jack?

i think the rest of your poe sans wiggles is good

[MacDougall]

So we have FG going into bat for Wilgy and Sloonei going into bat for G-Man. Ok.

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] do you have any issue with me shooting Jack?

[MacDougall]

I think that doing a GTH exercise might help a bit here. Because I'd like to keep track of people's opinions in this build moreso than usual.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

So we have FG going into bat for Wilgy and Sloonei going into bat for G-Man. Ok.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME do you have any issue with me shooting Jack?

I don’t think I do tbh

I’ve been trying to think of one while I catch up and idk, he doesn’t seem particularly sus but he doesn’t seem particularly townie either, so. I think it’s fine. I’d probably shoot nutella before him tho

[Hyena]

I'm here for just a moment. Mac, if you wanna do GTH right now, this is the best time for me to do it. :P

[Hyena]

Is G-Man up for consideration because he was following me and Boo around on wagons at EoD yesterday? If so, I'm okay with that. I think I'm townreading him, but not enough that I'd go up to bat for him.

[Duskfall]

Jack is weak sauce paranoia kill, give him more time to give content

Alright Duskfall.

How is it a weak sauce kill? Also, how is it a paranoia kill? Also, Jack has had as much time as the rest of us to give content. Why should he be given more time, over someone else being given more time? What has Jack done to deserve a stay of execution?

All of this is answered by the fact he hasn't been scummy, in fact I think he's towny

You don't think he's scummy you just think not towny, it's a weak kill because you aren't aiming for someone who is most likely to flip mafia but rather someone who is low on activity

[MacDougall]

I'd like to do GTH but there ain't many people here. Sucks.

[Hyena]

I'd like to do GTH but there ain't many people here. Sucks.

That's fine. I'm just gonna post stream of conscious reads then.

[Hyena]

Johann, Nutella, and FG would be all shots I'd be fine with. I'd only shoot Jack after those three and G-Man.

I don't think I'd shoot Mac or Dusk ever. Nanook would be a SUPER spicy shot, especially considering that he's starting to trend into that tone territory where I get iffy about him, like I did in Corona Virus.

[Hyena]

I think I'd keep Sloonei around another day.

[Duskfall]

I think jack had been townie, particularly in his progression on me I believe it is how town him would suspect and read me

Something else was towny earlier and I forget but I'm not bothered re isoing because I don't really ever re read a game thats boring

Jack may be underwhelming recently but I do think others have been worse and are therefore better shots

[Hyena]

Boo and Drago are no-gos for me right now. I'd never shoot them right now, but if I had to pick one to die over the other right now, it would always be Drago to shoot over Boo since I'm less sure about Drago. Boo just feels pure right now to me.

[Hyena]

I think that's everyone? Anyway, I'll be back during the next commercial maybe.

[MacDougall]

Jack is weak sauce paranoia kill, give him more time to give content

Alright Duskfall.

How is it a weak sauce kill? Also, how is it a paranoia kill? Also, Jack has had as much time as the rest of us to give content. Why should he be given more time, over someone else being given more time? What has Jack done to deserve a stay of execution?

All of this is answered by the fact he hasn't been scummy, in fact I think he's towny

You don't think he's scummy you just think not towny, it's a weak kill because you aren't aiming for someone who is most likely to flip mafia but rather someone who is low on activity

I appreciate your attempt to understand my perspective, even if it was a great assumption on your part, but you dramatically misunderstand my reasons for wanting Jack dead, which are numerous.

Reason #1 - Lack of effort in solving. Jack has coasted day 1 here. He doesn't care about the roof.
Reason #2 - He didn't beg for the gun - I believe town Jack would have had an insatiable appetite for the gun. I know Jack. He'd have loved to have the gun.
Reason #3 - Of the little solving he did do, particularly his town solving of Johann, I don't trust that it was genuine. Arriving at "this player is wrongtown" is fine, but the way Jack did it wasn't natural to me.
Reason #4 - Lack of consensus viable suspects. Nobody really stands out. For everyone that one of you thinks is an obvious shot, there's another of you who are absolutely sure that it's a bad one.
Reason #5 - The most consensus target here is Funnygurl. a) I town read her. b) I trust in my ability to read her more than I trust in anyone elses here. Not just because of the recent game but because last time I played with her on TS I town read her early and everyone was scum reading her. c) I think she is spewed town by how many people are scum reading her frankly. She's the low hanging fruit.
Reason #6 - If Jack is a wolf and I don't shoot him here, he'll probably just win.

[Hyena]

Johann, Nutella, and FG would be all shots I'd be fine with. I'd only shoot Jack after those three and G-Man.

I don't think I'd shoot Mac or Dusk ever. Nanook would be a SUPER spicy shot, especially considering that he's starting to trend into that tone territory where I get iffy about him, like I did in Corona Virus.

As far as Johann, Nutella, and FG go, I think the order I'd shoot them in is FG > Nutella > Johann. Johann would always be last, though I think I'd be able to be convinced to switch around FG and Nutella.

[Hyena]

Okay, bye for real now.

[MacDougall]

Johann, Nutella, and FG would be all shots I'd be fine with. I'd only shoot Jack after those three and G-Man.

I don't think I'd shoot Mac or Dusk ever. Nanook would be a SUPER spicy shot, especially considering that he's starting to trend into that tone territory where I get iffy about him, like I did in Corona Virus.

Talk to me more about Johann, as well as your Nanook read.

I think I'd keep Sloonei around another day.

Why did you frame it like this, versus just town reading him? What is your reservation?

Boo and Drago are no-gos for me right now. I'd never shoot them right now, but if I had to pick one to die over the other right now, it would always be Drago to shoot over Boo since I'm less sure about Drago. Boo just feels pure right now to me.

Why did you feel the need to pair these two off? Particularly why did you feel the need to go from no go-s to choosing between them? I don't understand your thought process here.

[Duskfall]

I mean if you claim to have some strong meta read on jack I can't really compete consdering I've never been town in a game with him but I'm town reading him personally

Side note I have no idea why you think scum jack would auto won if he lives today that's actually the point I disagree with most there's a lot of good players in this game odd to think anyone would have auto d2

I think jacks paranoia on me and Nanook is what town him would think and his wariness developing into slight town reads is just believable imo, particularly me who is obv town but he knows I'm also the best scum player in the world so "oh no what do I do"

[MacDougall]

I think jack had been townie, particularly in his progression on me I believe it is how town him would suspect and read me

Something else was towny earlier and I forget but I'm not bothered re isoing because I don't really ever re read a game thats boring

Jack may be underwhelming recently but I do think others have been worse and are therefore better shots

You best not leave cuz you're going to need to really explain yourself here.

Firstly, it seems to me like Jack has had nothing but a lock town read on you the entire time. So where did he "suspect you"?

Gonna need that other towny thing too.

[Duskfall]

I think jack had been townie, particularly in his progression on me I believe it is how town him would suspect and read me

Something else was towny earlier and I forget but I'm not bothered re isoing because I don't really ever re read a game thats boring

Jack may be underwhelming recently but I do think others have been worse and are therefore better shots

You best not leave cuz you're going to need to really explain yourself here.

Firstly, it seems to me like Jack has had nothing but a lock town read on you the entire time. So where did he "suspect you"?

Gonna need that other towny thing too.

He did not have a lock town read on me the entire time I know because it's something I was definitely paying attention to, he still only has me as slight town

You're not gonna get the second thing cause I'm tired and its 2:30am and not reading back in the game rn sorry

[MacDougall]

I mean if you claim to have some strong meta read on jack I can't really compete consdering I've never been town in a game with him but I'm town reading him personally

Side note I have no idea why you think scum jack would auto won if he lives today that's actually the point I disagree with most there's a lot of good players in this game odd to think anyone would have auto d2

I think jacks paranoia on me and Nanook is what town him would think and his wariness developing into slight town reads is just believable imo, particularly me who is obv town but he knows I'm also the best scum player in the world so "oh no what do I do"

Jack, for all the memeing he does about it, is one of the hardest players to lynch imaginable. In this game only Nanook would compare.

I do have a strong meta read on Jack. I've played dozens of games with him and caught him before. I've also been fooled before, so I am not so hoisted on my own petard to feel like this is a guarantee.

Jack's paranoia on you and Nanook being what town him would think - could you show me the posts you're referring to? I'd in particularly be looking for evidence that he isn't fooling you by doing exactly what you'd expect of town Jack.

Personally when it comes to player's like Jack, I prefer to try to work out what their motivation is in a game than read their posts. He knows how to sound town when he types up posts. What you can't fake is what you're trying to accomplish in a game. When you're a wolf you aren't trying to accomplish a town win con. Unless you're a weirdo. I can see evidence of others trying harder than him to accomplish a town win con. Which surprises me. Also he is missing those "oh he's just townie" posts that knock me out of tunnels.

[MacDougall]

I think jack had been townie, particularly in his progression on me I believe it is how town him would suspect and read me

Something else was towny earlier and I forget but I'm not bothered re isoing because I don't really ever re read a game thats boring

Jack may be underwhelming recently but I do think others have been worse and are therefore better shots

You best not leave cuz you're going to need to really explain yourself here.

Firstly, it seems to me like Jack has had nothing but a lock town read on you the entire time. So where did he "suspect you"?

Gonna need that other towny thing too.

He did not have a lock town read on me the entire time I know because it's something I was definitely paying attention to, he still only has me as slight town

You're not gonna get the second thing cause I'm tired and its 2:30am and not reading back in the game rn sorry

Apologies I thought this was a Hyena post because Hyena was spamming at the time. Ignore.

[MacDougall]

[mention]leetic[/mention] how long until end of night?

[Duskfall]

Omg I don't want to read the game why are you trying to make me woooooork

[Duskfall]

How do you iso on this site

[Duskfall]

Dude if you have a strong meta read on jack and are convinced he is scum then go ahead and shoot but if he flips town after you claiming you've that strong a read to shoot him over many better shots then you're going down dramatically so bet the game on it if you are that convinced , but only shoot him if you are willing to risk the game

[Duskfall]

Oh whew I don't actually have to iso

[MacDougall]

I just wonder what I would do as a wolf if I was in the situation where someone like me had a gun.

Would I:

a) Talk to Mac. Try to coerce him into a bad shot?
b) Talk to Mac. Buddy him? Not talk about who to shoot? Just let him make his own mind up (particularly if he's demonstrably in the wrong headspace)
c) Post nothing at all and hope?
d) Antagonise Mac. Call him out on incorrect reads etc.

Hmmm. It's hard. I feel like if I was town here that I would be posting loads and really trying to help encourage a shot on a target I thought was bad.
But also there isn't really a super obvious target here. The wolves aren't super obvious. But if I was scum, I'd honestly probably be pretty careful and posting a bit less than usual. Not nothing, but like speak when spoken to and really not offering much guidance. Unless I really had to speak up in defence of myself or a teammate.

Hmmm.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

How do you iso on this site

Button beneath a players avatar on computer, links in OP on phone

[leetic]

18 minutes 'til phase change

[MacDougall]

Dude if you have a strong meta read on jack and are convinced he is scum then go ahead and shoot but if he flips town after you claiming you've that strong a read to shoot him over many better shots then you're going down dramatically so bet the game on it if you are that convinced , but only shoot him if you are willing to risk the game

Why would missing on the first night mean I'm going down dramatically? And why would shooting Jack and being wrong on night one be risking the game? I'd say we get to day 2 with no wolf flips >75% of the time. Why are you being so dramatic?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I wouldn’t shoot FG fwiw, I don’t know what it is but I like her tone

I wouldn’t shoot drago maybe ever

I’d probably shoot hyena tho

[Hyena]

Johann, Nutella, and FG would be all shots I'd be fine with. I'd only shoot Jack after those three and G-Man.

I don't think I'd shoot Mac or Dusk ever. Nanook would be a SUPER spicy shot, especially considering that he's starting to trend into that tone territory where I get iffy about him, like I did in Corona Virus.

Talk to me more about Johann, as well as your Nanook read.

I think I'd keep Sloonei around another day.

Why did you frame it like this, versus just town reading him? What is your reservation?

Boo and Drago are no-gos for me right now. I'd never shoot them right now, but if I had to pick one to die over the other right now, it would always be Drago to shoot over Boo since I'm less sure about Drago. Boo just feels pure right now to me.

Why did you feel the need to pair these two off? Particularly why did you feel the need to go from no go-s to choosing between them? I don't understand your thought process here.

I called out Johann for shading the initial towncore, and his response felt like backpedaling. He also tried to pivot and said I was trying to say he was shading only me vs the whole towncore and people wanting to form a towncore that early. When I brought this up, he never really responded until this night phase where he only said he'd consider shooting me if he had a gun.

For Sloonei, I don't get scummy vibes from him, but like, I'm getting the vibe that other people are getting scummy vibes from him? So, like, I don't want to be the deciding factor on Sloonei, because my only experience playing with him was Corona Virus mafia, where he didn't post much.

For Boo and Drago, I am townreading one more than the other (Boo in this case), and that's just how I wanted to express that. Like, if I had to lose one of them, I'd be more willing to lose Drago then Boo, since I'm less sure about Drago.

For Nanook, I'm just starting to get vibes similar to the ones I got in Corona virus mafia when I didn't want to lock him in as town.

[MacDougall]

I'm going to switch to shooting Nanook I think.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

The problem in a game with mostly solid players is that there’s no easy place to start D1 most of the time.

I think there’s a pool of [me/dusk/FG/drago/Sloonei/someone Im forgetting] that isn’t worth shooting for various reasons, but outside that I don’t think there’s much distinguishing one shot from another tbh

[MacDougall]

boo - no
Dragomir - no
DrWilgy - no
Duskfall - ...
Funnygurl555 - no
G-Man - ...
Hyena - ...
Jackofhearts2005 - ...
Johann - ...
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - ...
nutella - no
Sloonei - no

Duskfall... nah
G-man... nah
Wilgy... nah
Hyena ... nah
Johann maybe
Jack maybe
Nanook maybe... nah.

Kind of in two minds about Johann and Jack here.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Johann, Nutella, and FG would be all shots I'd be fine with. I'd only shoot Jack after those three and G-Man.

I don't think I'd shoot Mac or Dusk ever. Nanook would be a SUPER spicy shot, especially considering that he's starting to trend into that tone territory where I get iffy about him, like I did in Corona Virus.

Talk to me more about Johann, as well as your Nanook read.

I think I'd keep Sloonei around another day.

Why did you frame it like this, versus just town reading him? What is your reservation?

Boo and Drago are no-gos for me right now. I'd never shoot them right now, but if I had to pick one to die over the other right now, it would always be Drago to shoot over Boo since I'm less sure about Drago. Boo just feels pure right now to me.

Why did you feel the need to pair these two off? Particularly why did you feel the need to go from no go-s to choosing between them? I don't understand your thought process here.

I called out Johann for shading the initial towncore, and his response felt like backpedaling. He also tried to pivot and said I was trying to say he was shading only me vs the whole towncore and people wanting to form a towncore that early. When I brought this up, he never really responded until this night phase where he only said he'd consider shooting me if he had a gun.

For Sloonei, I don't get scummy vibes from him, but like, I'm getting the vibe that other people are getting scummy vibes from him? So, like, I don't want to be the deciding factor on Sloonei, because my only experience playing with him was Corona Virus mafia, where he didn't post much.

For Boo and Drago, I am townreading one more than the other (Boo in this case), and that's just how I wanted to express that. Like, if I had to lose one of them, I'd be more willing to lose Drago then Boo, since I'm less sure about Drago.

For Nanook, I'm just starting to get vibes similar to the ones I got in Corona virus mafia when I didn't want to lock him in as town.

This is backwards. You should have read expository Nanook as scum and gruff, curt nanook as town. Not the other way around.

Especially since that wasn’t my progression in coronavirus mafia.

[MacDougall]

If you see this before EOD can you please just tell whether if you had to choose you would shoot Jack or Johann.

[Duskfall]

Ok I can't in good mind tell you to not shoot Nanook for any reason other than I want to play with him

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Oh johan is the other person I wouldn’t shoot. Primarily because it’s rude to shoot someone on the first day of their first game here

[Hyena]

If you see this before EOD can you please just tell whether if you had to choose you would shoot Jack or Johann.

Jack would be more spicy, but I think I'd go with Johann here. If you go with Jack though, I won't be mad.

[Duskfall]

Ok we don't shoot Johann why are you coming up with these shots just shoot boo

[MacDougall]

Maybe a bit of a reach of a request but if you're town I think you're gonna have to show it a bit more if town is going to win this one. We can't really afford scummy town play or even lurky town play here. We have to make it obvious by our behaviour.

[MacDougall]

Ok we don't shoot Johann why are you coming up with these shots just shoot boo

Boo is one of my bigger town reads.

[Funnygurl555]

If you see this before EOD can you please just tell whether if you had to choose you would shoot Jack or Johann.

jack

johann was wary of people labeling him town. that's a townie mindset. he's my strongest town

[Duskfall]

Ok we don't shoot Johann why are you coming up with these shots just shoot boo

Boo is one of my bigger town reads.

Why do you have the gun again

[MacDougall]

Like there is really ... nobody who I can lock clear here on their posting. Which is abnormal.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Maybe a bit of a reach of a request but if you're town I think you're gonna have to show it a bit more if town is going to win this one. We can't really afford scummy town play or even lurky town play here. We have to make it obvious by our behaviour.

Who is this directed at