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Yes, you have been over it. I asked Mojo because I wanted to hear his answer. You didn't really answer the question that I was asking. I was asking why The Sentinel would feel the need to publicly expose Cyclops? I get what you meant...that it could possibly expose Cyclops. My question is why The Sentinel would feel such a need to expose Cyclops? Especially when The Sentinel's vote is worthless if he gets a vote? See what I'm getting at? The potential exposure isn't worth that bit of knowledge I don't think. Do you?The Vision wrote:Oy, ive been over thisHavok wrote:Why is it more likely that I would ask that question as The Sentinel rather than a civvie?
Because only the sentinel, knowing his was worth 0 that day, would have noted that there a chance to figure out who cyclops was by asking about the tie.If you asked the tie question any other day, or if you werent a deathlok voter, I wouldnt have been pinged. See?
Yeah, it makes sense. I just thought maybe you had an ulterior motive for trying to get someone else to do it, but I was clearly wrong. I'm not feeling so good about Mr. Mojo. He looks like he's just trying to be your yes man. You made your post asking someone to vote for me. His vote post felt like he was voting for me just in response to your request. Granted, if he is bad, he was smart enough not to just come in, quote your post, and say "I'll do it", but we he did do was just reuse your ideas from the previous day without adding anything original. Then, when I asked him a question, he just shrugs it off by saying that the question had already been answered. This is not to say that I think that the two of you are on a team together. At the moment, I don't think that you are bad, but Mr. Mojo is coming off as baddie to me. A baddie trying to piggy back off of a civvie that is sharing intelligent ideas.The Vision wrote:At the time, there were virtually no votes, so I felt I needed to use my vote on a more important matter, namely trying to get the lynch onto a baddie. My thing against you is in no way strong enough to warrant a lynch, and there are always people at the end of a lynch who dont want to touch the main votegetters, so I guessed someone would step up, and Mr. Mojo did. Hope that makes sense!Havok wrote:A question for The Vision: You requested that someone place a vote on me "just in case" I am The Sentinel. Why not vote for me yourself instead of asking someone else to do it? I don't see anything wrong with the plan, I just wonder why you asked someone else to do it?
And this lynch was a bit crazy with all of those late seeming votes. I look forward to reading back on the thunder voters...
The fact is, we don't know what The Sentinels win condition is. Plus, they have the ever-dangerous *secrets*... I have no idea why The Sentinels would call out Cyclops. But I've seen people ask the host a question before where the question didn't make a ton of sense unless you realized that the person knew something you didn't.Havok wrote:stated more clearly, what is gained by exposing Cyclops for The Sentinel? The Sentinels are programmed mutant killers, so it seems likely that The Sentinels are going after all mutants. So, if The Sentinels need everyone dead, why would that role care who anyone was?
WHY??? This is the only interaction I have between you and Longshot:Quicksilver wrote:I don't mind trying the experiment on myself, but there are people volunteering I would be comfortable with Longshot also.
It seems vaguely antagonistic, and I honestly don't remember Longshot having said much of anything else this game. (My apologies if I've been overlooking you, Long.) So why do you suddenly trust Longshot the most, after never talking about him or to him and after he totally wrecked your "reason" for your vote? Or are you going with the second strategy and voting for someon you're suspicious of? This feels very baddie to me.Longshot wrote:Quicksilver, this has been bothering me and I haven't found an answer so I'm just going to ask. I double checked and Scarlett Witch was the one who made the potential "slip". It was that "slip" that I saw all the discussion about regarding did that mean she was a baddie or just mis-gendered Polaris. What slip up did Deathlok have that you are saying here was a baddie mistake? I may have just missed it and am confused because the only potential slip I saw was Scarlett's.Quicksilver wrote:I have to vote bleh... I would like to vote for a quiet player like Banshee, but I think maybe some people haven't started as Epignosis has said he needs a replacement. I understand both sides of the Pronoun argument as stated earlier, but I do have to pick someone to vote so I will try to trust the group saying Deathlok's slip up is really a Baddie mistake. I still dont think there is enough evidence to vote against the other people being accused today yet, Avalanche, Scarlet Witch, etc.
(Votes Deathlok)
The what will you go on?Phoenix wrote:Ughhhh RIP Thunderbird! Not going on hunches anymore...
That does make sense. Looking back, it was a dangerous question to ask. I didn't realize it at the time. When i asked, I actually thought that if it had been a tie, it would mean that the two civvies did not play a part in the lynch. My thinking was: "If Cyclops vote is worth 3 and Wolverine had a -4 situation, what can the baddies do? Do they have anything close to that?"The Vision wrote:The fact is, we don't know what The Sentinels win condition is. Plus, they have the ever-dangerous *secrets*... I have no idea why The Sentinels would call out Cyclops. But I've seen people ask the host a question before where the question didn't make a ton of sense unless you realized that the person knew something you didn't.Havok wrote:stated more clearly, what is gained by exposing Cyclops for The Sentinel? The Sentinels are programmed mutant killers, so it seems likely that The Sentinels are going after all mutants. So, if The Sentinels need everyone dead, why would that role care who anyone was?
so while it may not make a ton of sense, i could see the Sentinels being in the Deathlok group of voters, realizing the Cyclops thing, and asking the question all without ever really thinking "hmm, is this smart?"
You cans ee why I haven't really advocated your lynch over this lol, it's just that your question was really, really odd and this was made the most hypothetical sense to me.
As for Longshot, he was merely asking me questions over and over andnot wrecking anything and trying to understand why I did certain things. The quote you pulled ^^^was from him trying to understand me and he asked several times for me to answer after that quote if you look back. He even mentioned he wanted clarity even though I said I was tired of defended so much. I finally answered which is why there aren't many back and forth from us.Mikhail Rasputin wrote:Uh....I forgot to play/vote. Sorry, guys and gals.
I didn't think Quicksilver's poor logic regarding indies was pingy, but I think his defense was. Frankly, I'm shocked so many late votes came in for Thunderbird and got him lynched.
I think Hawkeye and The Vision are being very astute.
This is a quote from someone (I think Havoc) to Quicksilver, and it sums up my thoughts, more or less.
"I feel like you were trying to use emotional appeals to survive, and not the good kind."
So I'll be looking at him tomorrow. And at Sunfire, about whom I have very very bad gut feelings. I'll probably build a case in the morning.
WHY??? This is the only interaction I have between you and Longshot:Quicksilver wrote:I don't mind trying the experiment on myself, but there are people volunteering I would be comfortable with Longshot also.
It seems vaguely antagonistic, and I honestly don't remember Longshot having said much of anything else this game. (My apologies if I've been overlooking you, Long.) So why do you suddenly trust Longshot the most, after never talking about him or to him and after he totally wrecked your "reason" for your vote? Or are you going with the second strategy and voting for someon you're suspicious of? This feels very baddie to me.Longshot wrote:Quicksilver, this has been bothering me and I haven't found an answer so I'm just going to ask. I double checked and Scarlett Witch was the one who made the potential "slip". It was that "slip" that I saw all the discussion about regarding did that mean she was a baddie or just mis-gendered Polaris. What slip up did Deathlok have that you are saying here was a baddie mistake? I may have just missed it and am confused because the only potential slip I saw was Scarlett's.Quicksilver wrote:I have to vote bleh... I would like to vote for a quiet player like Banshee, but I think maybe some people haven't started as Epignosis has said he needs a replacement. I understand both sides of the Pronoun argument as stated earlier, but I do have to pick someone to vote so I will try to trust the group saying Deathlok's slip up is really a Baddie mistake. I still dont think there is enough evidence to vote against the other people being accused today yet, Avalanche, Scarlet Witch, etc.
(Votes Deathlok)
The what will you go on?Phoenix wrote:Ughhhh RIP Thunderbird! Not going on hunches anymore...
Also wanted to point out that while we don't know The Sentinels exact win condition, we can get pretty close with a guess considering the civvies and the brotherhood both need the Sentinels gone in order to win. With that it stands to reason that The Sentinels need the civvies and brotherhood gone to win. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that the Sentinels have a LMS win condition....with the possibilty of being able to coexist with Apocalypse and/or Omega Red.The Vision wrote:The fact is, we don't know what The Sentinels win condition is. Plus, they have the ever-dangerous *secrets*... I have no idea why The Sentinels would call out Cyclops. But I've seen people ask the host a question before where the question didn't make a ton of sense unless you realized that the person knew something you didn't.Havok wrote:stated more clearly, what is gained by exposing Cyclops for The Sentinel? The Sentinels are programmed mutant killers, so it seems likely that The Sentinels are going after all mutants. So, if The Sentinels need everyone dead, why would that role care who anyone was?
so while it may not make a ton of sense, i could see the Sentinels being in the Deathlok group of voters, realizing the Cyclops thing, and asking the question all without ever really thinking "hmm, is this smart?"
You cans ee why I haven't really advocated your lynch over this lol, it's just that your question was really, really odd and this was made the most hypothetical sense to me.
) when I have finished assuring that the mutants of the world are safe from danger 
I was thinking exactly this. Had I been allowed, I probably would have voted Quicksilver as well. The case looked good on him. The fact that a rush of t-bird votes came after Quicksilver had taken four votes seems very suspicious to me.White Queen wrote:I did follow the thread and I am a bit perplexed by the T-Bird surge at the end. I am not sure I even would have voted for him for that at this stage, with so many people who did not bother to vote, or post, at all. At least he did one of the two.
I thought there were some pretty good points to the case on Quicksilver (someone called him Silverfish at some point, I LOLed) and that push to T-Bird at the end did not look great to me.
There were a few things I know I have to address, and will do so tonight (xoxo Spiral
Why the hell are you discussing the secrets of a civilian role?Hawkeye wrote:I have noticed the independents being brought up back and forth, but no real discussion on them. I realize two of them have secrets but maybe we can make some assumptions based on our host's past games and the nature of the characters in the X-Men universe.
Omega Red: No secrets there, can win with any group as long as the characters he's chosen are eliminated. During the day periods he has to at least appear civ friendly for credibility and help find scum.
Sentinels: In the comics/movies they are anti-mutant robots, which means all mutants regardless of alignment. In this game, neither civilians nor the Brotherhood can win with them, so they may not be civ friendly, but they are most definitely not scum friendly either.
Apocalypse: In the animated series, the character had some very cool lines 'I am the rocks of the eternal shore. Crash against me and be broken. ' or 'Evil? I am not malevolent. I simply am.' It's been a long since I've watched that, but went to Wiki and he's been recruiting his 4 horsemen, Angel/Archangel among them. Looking at the info we have on the role, he basically looks immortal, however, looking at at least one of our host's past games where there was such a powerful independent - could not be lynched or night killed, they were dependent upon a specific group: when the last member of that group was eliminated, so was that independent. I think Apocalypse recruits his four horsemen, perhaps specific roles like Archangel, and when they are eliminated, so is he. Here is some info regarding the incarnations of the Horsemen. There are mutants from both sides in there.
While I'm still in the speculation area, I'll talk briefly about the other two roles with secrets:
Storm: Alters the weather. This can mean anything, but since she's a civilian, it could that she can control the outcome of lynches, or has some kind of vote manipulation powers.
Mystique: For those of you who don't know, she's a shapeshifter. This can mean a number of things: she could pose as a mutant of her choice and use their power, but that would be too similar to Rogue's role, or some of you may already be familiar with the Catherine Martell role, who, if lynched can control the role she was shown as. Perhaps we're in that area with Mystique as well.
Note that these are all just speculations in an attempt to offer some insight one the game mechanics. I could be miles away from what the secrets actually mean. The point of it all, especially with the independents is to see if they are an immediate danger and if it's worth hunting them down or have them help us get rid of the baddies.
So, sorry for the slightly off topic post. I'll work on one regarding my suspicions soon.
I voted for quicksilver because he refused to address my points. He refused to respond to me bringing up specific quotes about him. He hoped I'd just go away.Bastion wrote:I really don't understand all these votes on quicksilver.
Thank you.White Queen wrote:I did follow the thread and I am a bit perplexed by the T-Bird surge at the end. I am not sure I even would have voted for him for that at this stage, with so many people who did not bother to vote, or post, at all. At least he did one of the two.
I thought there were some pretty good points to the case on Quicksilver (someone called him Silverfish at some point, I LOLed) and that push to T-Bird at the end did not look great to me.
There were a few things I know I have to address, and will do so tonight (xoxo Spiral
I believe it’s called trying to be helpful. See, I would normally agree with you if I concluded that my brief discussion would result in endangering said civilian or any other civilians for that matter, but having weighed the pros and cons of such an undertaking, I considered that openly discussing it, along with the rest of the roles with secrets would provide us a better understanding of the game mechanics. If you manage to provide a setting where the fact that I discussed Storm’s secret endangers any civilian (note that this is a game with heavy voting manipulation, so a lynch switch or whatever would go undetected), I’ll plead guilty and you can go ahead and take me out for attempting to endanger or expose one or more civilians. Let’s assume, for the sake of discussion, that ‘altering the weather’ does indeed mean what I have described in my previous post. Do you think that a team of 7 would not reach the same conclusion, because you know, it’s pretty much common sense? Or maybe you guys haven’t discussed it this yet, in which case I do apologize.Spiral wrote: Why the hell are you discussing the secrets of a civilian role?
Do you think that a person who survives a lynch would not be an automatic night target either because they are a powerful civilian or to have the baddies check if they do indeed have Apocalypse in the bag? Of course you’d think the same if you actually took a few seconds to rationalize this, instead of trying to come across as very offended and self-righteous in what I consider an aggressive manner. I would buy it if you were Storm and you’d consider that my discussing your secrets could somehow expose you. However, the very fact that out of my entire post you’ve chosen to single out one role in particular to make you look good, tells me that you have nothing to do with that particular, and perhaps the reason is that I might have struck a chord and I’m exposing you or one of your teammates. I see no discussion about the independents and the baddie with secrets, for which you are very welcome. In case you haven’t bothered to read my posts, I like to rely on logic, common sense and what facts I can pick up from people’s posts in order to make what I consider rational judgments. Plus, I like to get some reactions. Thank you for that. And if it’s all right with you, I’ll have to keep an eye on you. I do agree with this. Big time.Spiral wrote:I think that the T-Bird lynch train was to save Quicksilver. Big time.
Rock on!Shadowcat wrote: Throwing my vote at Avalanche. He's still the only one I fully trust so far.
How original.Sunfire wrote:*votes avalanche* I feel I can trust him as well.
I'm with you on that Hawkeye. That's what I was hinting at also based on my previous post today.Hawkeye wrote:In a previous Epignosis game, the person who won a night poll was turned into an independent. I have no idea what the outcome for this is, but we might be voting for a recruit for Apocalypse, and I'm not comfortable with that. I'll be voting for one of the non-participants.
Ohhhh ugh - well, I could leave my vote where it is because no one else is going to vote me or I could change it, but to who? A non-participant is a thought - I've got to think through this. Though didn't the post say the person would do something helpful? I guess the question is helpful for who.Quicksilver wrote:I'm with you on that Hawkeye. That's what I was hinting at also based on my previous post today.Hawkeye wrote:In a previous Epignosis game, the person who won a night poll was turned into an independent. I have no idea what the outcome for this is, but we might be voting for a recruit for Apocalypse, and I'm not comfortable with that. I'll be voting for one of the non-participants.
I meant to respond to this post yesterday, but I forgot. Not really that big of a deal, but my nerdiness OCD is compelling me to post. lol. I would lean more towards Mystique being a seemer role. Having Mystique be able to use other abilities wouldn't really jive with the character. Mystique can only change her appearance. She can't use the abilities of the mutants that she shifts into. It's about the only thing that actually gives her away. There was a game at RM a while back that had the Rogue and Mystique roles in the game. Rogue could borrow other abilities and Mystique was a seemer. In that game, Mystique could also send out messages BTS to other players disguised as someone else. That was an interesting twist on the seemer role. Something to keep in mind here I think.Hawkeye wrote:
Mystique: For those of you who don't know, she's a shapeshifter. This can mean a number of things: she could pose as a mutant of her choice and use their power, but that would be too similar to Rogue's role, or some of you may already be familiar with the Catherine Martell role, who, if lynched can control the role she was shown as. Perhaps we're in that area with Mystique as well.
There were also a couple good points against it. It's not to say that Havok deserves no suspicion, but if I recall correctly, there's some ideas pointing either way as to whether he is the Sentinels.Mojo wrote:This has been gone over previously. The vision made some really good points about it. I'm not going to repeat everything that has been said. I understand you don't agree, oh well.Havok wrote:Why is it more likely that I would ask that question as The Sentinel rather than a civvie?
Please clarify something for me. Who are the mutants of the world?White Queen wrote:There were a few things I know I have to address, and will do so tonight (xoxo Spiral
^Ditto!Avalanche wrote:I would actually prefer not to win this poll, although the votes of confidence are touching.
Well then - sorry I voted for you I will give my vote to my second choice - White QueenThe Vision wrote:^Ditto!Avalanche wrote:I would actually prefer not to win this poll, although the votes of confidence are touching.
I think I will follow this because I was thinking that the person who won the poll would not necessarily get a good reward. When I read it, I felt like something was going to go wrong, I am kind of confused by those who wanted to be voted/those who seem to be voting who they trust and not weighing that something bad could be happening to them. This could very well be what happens, thanks for the insight into Epi's previous game too.Hawkeye wrote:In a previous Epignosis game, the person who won a night poll was turned into an independent. I have no idea what the outcome for this is, but we might be voting for a recruit for Apocalypse, and I'm not comfortable with that. I'll be voting for one of the non-participants.
Very nice way of saying you suspect me because I dared question you. In addition, the other role you discussed was Mystique-- a baddie role.Hawkeye wrote:I believe it’s called trying to be helpful. See, I would normally agree with you if I concluded that my brief discussion would result in endangering said civilian or any other civilians for that matter, but having weighed the pros and cons of such an undertaking, I considered that openly discussing it, along with the rest of the roles with secrets would provide us a better understanding of the game mechanics. If you manage to provide a setting where the fact that I discussed Storm’s secret endangers any civilian (note that this is a game with heavy voting manipulation, so a lynch switch or whatever would go undetected), I’ll plead guilty and you can go ahead and take me out for attempting to endanger or expose one or more civilians. Let’s assume, for the sake of discussion, that ‘altering the weather’ does indeed mean what I have described in my previous post. Do you think that a team of 7 would not reach the same conclusion, because you know, it’s pretty much common sense? Or maybe you guys haven’t discussed it this yet, in which case I do apologize.Spiral wrote: Why the hell are you discussing the secrets of a civilian role?
That being said, I don’t want to end this post in a bellicose manner.
Excellent question. Logic, I suppose, although process of elimination/pure logic at this point still won't quite cut it. One can't quite rule out the gut feeling/hunch as an indicator of baddies, but that's certainly not what I (or anyone wanting to successfully get rid of scum) needs to rely upon. Off to catch up, become informed and make a decision for tonightMikhail Rasputin wrote:Uh....I forgot to play/vote. Sorry, guys and gals.
I didn't think Quicksilver's poor logic regarding indies was pingy, but I think his defense was. Frankly, I'm shocked so many late votes came in for Thunderbird and got him lynched.
I think Hawkeye and The Vision are being very astute.
This is a quote from someone (I think Havoc) to Quicksilver, and it sums up my thoughts, more or less.
"I feel like you were trying to use emotional appeals to survive, and not the good kind."
So I'll be looking at him tomorrow. And at Sunfire, about whom I have very very bad gut feelings. I'll probably build a case in the morning.
WHY??? This is the only interaction I have between you and Longshot:Quicksilver wrote:I don't mind trying the experiment on myself, but there are people volunteering I would be comfortable with Longshot also.
It seems vaguely antagonistic, and I honestly don't remember Longshot having said much of anything else this game. (My apologies if I've been overlooking you, Long.) So why do you suddenly trust Longshot the most, after never talking about him or to him and after he totally wrecked your "reason" for your vote? Or are you going with the second strategy and voting for someon you're suspicious of? This feels very baddie to me.Longshot wrote:Quicksilver, this has been bothering me and I haven't found an answer so I'm just going to ask. I double checked and Scarlett Witch was the one who made the potential "slip". It was that "slip" that I saw all the discussion about regarding did that mean she was a baddie or just mis-gendered Polaris. What slip up did Deathlok have that you are saying here was a baddie mistake? I may have just missed it and am confused because the only potential slip I saw was Scarlett's.Quicksilver wrote:I have to vote bleh... I would like to vote for a quiet player like Banshee, but I think maybe some people haven't started as Epignosis has said he needs a replacement. I understand both sides of the Pronoun argument as stated earlier, but I do have to pick someone to vote so I will try to trust the group saying Deathlok's slip up is really a Baddie mistake. I still dont think there is enough evidence to vote against the other people being accused today yet, Avalanche, Scarlet Witch, etc.
(Votes Deathlok)
The what will you go on?Phoenix wrote:Ughhhh RIP Thunderbird! Not going on hunches anymore...
