X-Men [ENDGAME]

[Ned Flanders]

mikhail i asked the host last nite cuz i was confused and he told me that if u lose your powers for m-day then u lose everything your not a mutant anymore. wolverine loses his healin factor omega red loses his faremones apocalypse loses his protection. no powers no role. its apocalypse now baby!!!

LOL, yeah, I asked that question too. Nice try

[2 Stupid Dogs]

Someone up there ^^ said he was specifically targeted by the bad team. But in any case 4 (or is it 5?) different people have survived NKs. They cannot ALL be the civ that survives NKs or Apocalypse. So the fact that there are only 2 roles with NK saves written in and more than 2 people have survived NKs pretty much voids that as a defense in my opinion.

Yeah I fucked up.

Rasputin's defense of that argument is that he's survived 2 NKs and that they couldn't both be from outside forces.

Could he be Apocalypse? :o

[Nicol Bolas]

whenever i see a white queen post all i hear in my head is the teacher from the peanuts goin WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

[Gunther]

rude

[Ned Flanders]

Ture

[Paul Stevens]

So uhm... when I am being rezzed?

You and me both.

Wanna go grab a bite to eat?

I'd love to! How about some Del Taco? And no I'm not a cheap date, I can put those tacos away. And they cater to those on the zombie diet too!

I could go for some brains tacos.

[Lunatella]

White Queen says she wants me lynched. Do you think you should trust her?

[Nicol Bolas]

no shaw i do not. who else do u think is untrustworthy other than her royal whiteness?

yo longshot i was jw which of the spiral voters or nonvoters were you the most spishus of or if there were any polaris voters that you thought were spishus. whenever u have finished your reread ofc.

[Ned Flanders]

White Queen says she wants me lynched. Do you think you should trust her?

Why shouldn't they?

[Operator]

Rasputin's defense of that argument is that he's survived 2 NKs and that they couldn't both be from outside forces.

that basically amounts to him role hinting from what I can gather.

I didn't say they couldn't, just that it seems unlikely to me. And I'm not hinting at any role in particular, I'm just asking that people look at what's happened and ask themselves what's most likely to have happened. I am saying I'm not bad, and that if I were, the odds of me surviving two NK attempts are nearly astronomical.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

whenever i see a white queen post all i hear in my head is the teacher from the peanuts goin WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

I'm so done with people telling me I'm being personal when people post this bullshit.

[Operator]

White Queen says she wants me lynched. Do you think you should trust her?

No, not really. Who do you want lynched?

[Nicol Bolas]

mikhail i think havok asked u a ? about bullz that i wouldnt mind seein ur answer 2

[Ned Flanders]

whenever i see a white queen post all i hear in my head is the teacher from the peanuts goin WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

I'm so done with people telling me I'm being personal when people post this bullshit.

Hey, no worries

Pedantic is not the worst thing I have ever been called

And Deadpool and Rasputin, considering that I have been saying for ages that Hawkeye & Polaris were bad (and they were ) why would you think I am not interested in lynching baddies? Just curious.

[Lunatella]

White Queen says she wants me lynched. Do you think you should trust her?

No, not really. Who do you want lynched?

Nobody really listens to me. But I think you're good, so I can listen to you.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

Shaw, if not you, then who?

[Lunatella]

I don't know. I have to think.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

I don't know. I have to think.

You've had plenty of time to think.

[Operator]

whenever i see a white queen post all i hear in my head is the teacher from the peanuts goin WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

I'm so done with people telling me I'm being personal when people post this bullshit.

Hey, no worries

Pedantic is not the worst thing I have ever been called

And Deadpool and Rasputin, considering that I have been saying for ages that Hawkeye & Polaris were bad (and they were ) why would you think I am not interested in lynching baddies? Just curious.

I never said I don't think you want to lynch baddies. I think you seem into the idea. Again, Hawkeye wasn't exactly bad, but not-civ-aligned is close enough, I guess.

mikhail i think havok asked u a ? about bullz that i wouldnt mind seein ur answer 2

Was the question what I think of him? I haven't really thought about it a lot. I'll look at his votes and posts and get back to ya.

[Joe Who?]

The enlarged part was literally the reason we lynched Marrow.
What you're saying here is that you've voted against all the civvie lynches and baddie lynches. You haven't done much to actually contribute to the lynches. Your voting record is clean because you know how it will turn out. You have avoided all responsibility this game.

And FYI, maybe I felt okay publishing a list because Magneto was likely blocked last night, and it's friggin day time and Magneto can't changed his targets based on what I say for now.

I'm sorry, "we" lynched Marrow.

Are you even reading the thread? "We" did not lynch Marrow. HAWKEYE lynched Marrow, as my previous post said. With a little help from Banshee. There was no case made on Marrow or reason to vote her except that Hawkeye wanted to do it and had great instincts. So don't try to claim credit for that or make me look bad because I didn't vote Marrow; no one except the two I mentioned did, and you sure as hell didn't.

The rest of your post directed at me is just wild speculation. I do not know how lynches will turn out. If I did, I would've probably tried to vote a baddie who seemed certain to die at some point, no?

wait a second... it wasn't a very detailed or extensive case, but there very much was a case on marrow, marrow was even leading in visible votes that day before i think one or two players switched theirs away

yah im willin 2 admit im probs wrong about spiral bein bad. i dont think the votes woulda gone down the way it did if him and polaris were team m8s.

and banshees right bout the votes movin during the marrow lynch. longshot voted 4 marrow at the start and said he might change it, then viz called the marrow vote "easy" so longshot switched his vote 2 me. longshot also subtly tried to get banshee to switch his vote too. then there is of course the vote 4 spiral yesterday that could have saved toad. if im goin just by voting record id say longshot fits the brotherhood mold perfectly. longshot blames his vote on not readin closely enuf....... my question for longshot is what would u have done differently with ur vote if u had read the thread better? that excuse dont make sense2me.

tryin to decide whether mikhails missed vote for spiral makes him more or less likely 2 b bad......... raspys a crafty guy im not sure what his angle is.

but i got another idea for todays vote. see the way i read it last night was M-Day meanin a bunch a mutants lost their powers which means we could potentially b dealin w/ a depowered apocalypse today. i was wonderin what yall thought about that. personally i got 2 suspects for apocalypse, white queen and sebastian shaw. my vote today will likely go to one of em cuz i think its important to try and get apocalypse out while we can. i fear the window of opportunity might b closin on that one after today. leanin queenie over shaw what does every1 else think

that.... is actually a pretty interesting idea :hmmm:

it would depend greatly on whether passive role aspects would count as mutant powers which could be lost though. it would suck to waste a lynch.

epig, would passive reflexive powers have been removed last night as well as active targeting powers?

i'm not sure if i worded that correctly...

[2 Stupid Dogs]

If we're looking for Apocalypse, then I'm thinking either Mikhail or White Queen-- leaning Mikhail lately.

[Joe Who?]

i'm still leaning towards white queen, i think the behavioral change after the white queen/apocalypse theory became prevalent seems telling.

[Operator]

wait a second... it wasn't a very detailed or extensive case, but there very much was a case on marrow, marrow was even leading in visible votes that day before i think one or two players switched theirs away

that.... is actually a pretty interesting idea :hmmm:

it would depend greatly on whether passive role aspects would count as mutant powers which could be lost though. it would suck to waste a lynch.

epig, would passive reflexive powers have been removed last night as well as active targeting powers?

i'm not sure if i worded that correctly...

Do you have time to look it up for me then please? I must've missed it. And it'd be interesting to see who switched away, as well.

As far as the powers question, Epi answered something similar before. Looked to me like Apocalypse would still survive lynches.

Deadpool, as to your question on Bullz, we rezzed him because the theory was he was Dazzler, and Bullz basically confirmed.

I couldnt follow the rezz stuff much, can anyone tell me ehich sock names we assume eloh and bullz to be?

I'm not sure if we can outright say, but people figured mine out pretty well. I'm kinda disappointed actually, I figured nobody would guess who I was since I wasn't supposed to be around.

Dazzler was double-NKed by the baddies and Sentinels. So I think just based on that, it's real unlikely Bullz is bad. I suppose it's plausible that Bullz was Mystique and Domino was bad, while Exodus and Shadowcat were both good, but that means Sabretooth's power was redirceted to a teammate that night.

So beyond my immediate skepticism of Bullz's evilness, there's his posts and votes. He voted Phoenix the day after his rezz, saying he didn't understand Hawkeye's logic of voting for Marrow if he thought Magneto had targeted Marrow. I agree that it was a bit confusing, but I think it was likely a typo on Hawkeye's part. (I don't know whether that was ever confirmed.) Phoenix was later killed by Hawkeye, somewhat ironically. So we don't actually know her alignment.

The next day he voted Hawkeye (pretty self-explanatory).

Yesterday, obviously, he voted Spiral. I dunno, to me personally, he sounds well-reasoned there and not particularly subversive. I mean, he says he went with Spiral because he thought Spiral was trying to claim civ cred for helping lynch Hawkeye (which I would agree he's done) and said the votes on Polaris lacked substantive backing (which imo was probably true as well). He was wrong about Polaris, but everyone's wrong sometimes.

So I guess all in all I'm leaning pretty solidly civ on Bullz. If he were just any player, I say he's firmly in "I dunno" territory with me, but we rezzed him specifically because of all the NKed people he seemed least likely to be bad. I feel like it's kinda a waste to throw that logic out, and I think we'd likely waste a lynch and a civ life if we lynched him.

Linki: I agree with Banshee. She more or less claimed the role, if you read back, and her tone has changed since.

[Operator]

EBWOP: However, Spiral, if you want to never ever try killing me, I totally support that motion. So carry on, please.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

i'm still leaning towards white queen, i think the behavioral change after the white queen/apocalypse theory became prevalent seems telling.

If I'm right about who White Queen is IRL, then this would be typical of her given the way some players have treated her.

EBWOP: However, Spiral, if you want to never ever try killing me, I totally support that motion. So carry on, please.

What makes you think I shouldn't believe White Queen isn't riding that same train? Why is she special?

Wouldn't it be mutually beneficial to the two of you if you were Apocalypse and actually couldn't die, and everyone thought she was Apocalypse so didn't bother trying to kill her?

[Joe Who?]

wait a second... it wasn't a very detailed or extensive case, but there very much was a case on marrow, marrow was even leading in visible votes that day before i think one or two players switched theirs away

that.... is actually a pretty interesting idea :hmmm:

it would depend greatly on whether passive role aspects would count as mutant powers which could be lost though. it would suck to waste a lynch.

epig, would passive reflexive powers have been removed last night as well as active targeting powers?

i'm not sure if i worded that correctly...

Do you have time to look it up for me then please? I must've missed it. And it'd be interesting to see who switched away, as well.

i can try, 1 sec

As far as the powers question, Epi answered something similar before. Looked to me like Apocalypse would still survive lynches.

well damn

[Joe Who?]

Oh snap! No longer an hour. I'll go ahead and vote for Marrow. Make sure you use my info wisely and don't lynch another civilian.

And don't kill me while I'm away. Barton out.

1st vote for Marrow

In fact, since we can change our votes I'm going to go ahead and vote marrow so I'm not worried about missing. If someone comes in and says "civs, we have to vote X because of Y" i will have an open mind.

2nd vote

I dont know, im just not sure I trust hawkeye, so I thus dont trust his choosing marrow, especially after his reasoning seems backwards. Marrow is likely to be protected, lets vote marrow? Maybe he jnows marrow is protected and slipped... like, after shaw yesterday marrow is the next low posrer. I could see magneto targeting marrow and then the baddies planning to vote that way since "magneto wouldnt protect marrow"... it all feels weird.

mr vision said something

ah geez. I'm in 3 games right now and had already forgotten about that discussion this morning. You are right Vision, that didn't make sense. Any ideas? How do you feel about Deadpool?

changes mind

i'm putting my vote on marrow for now because i think he might be bad. i'm willing to change it if the group consensus is that such a change is ideal because of magneto shenanigans. I have to go to dinner now but i'll be following along on my phone.

3rd vote

Banshee, how do you feel about what vision is saying?

Ok, I voted Deadpool. The tenor of his posts and the fact that he put, of all people, me, Havoc, Vision (I think) and Mihail on a baddie team just smells foul to me.

votes deadpool instead


i'd remembered it as being 2 different people switching their votes away from marrow but looking back it seems like it may have just been longshot who switched? can anyone else find anything

[Ned Flanders]

I don't know. I have to think.

Deadpool, what are your thoughts on this post? I am curious what you think of someone with no suspicions at this point in the game?

Same question to Banshee.

And by the way, Banshee, I think a switch to Deadpool was a wise move. You don't? Do you have an opinion of Deadpool?

[Ned Flanders]

i'm still leaning towards white queen, i think the behavioral change after the white queen/apocalypse theory became prevalent seems telling.

If I'm right about who White Queen is IRL, then this would be typical of her given the way some players have treated her.

EBWOP: However, Spiral, if you want to never ever try killing me, I totally support that motion. So carry on, please.

What makes you think I shouldn't believe White Queen isn't riding that same train? Why is she special?

Wouldn't it be mutually beneficial to the two of you if you were Apocalypse and actually couldn't die, and everyone thought she was Apocalypse so didn't bother trying to kill her?

If this were the case, I doubt I would be continuously saying I think he is bad, unlikely as everyone thinks this is; were he to be lynched and not die, he would become my rival, and we would draw ALL the NKs/lynche until one of us died.

And Banshee, what specific behavioral change? If people come up with a theory saying I cannot die who am I to tell them no? I am pretty good at being something I am not, but when people pin a label on you, and the label is the best possible role to be from a perspective of not drawing NKs and not drawing faux lynch cases, why in Gods name would I try to pretend to be other than what people are saying I am?

If I go with the flow when it's a favorable flow for me, well, why not? Would you not do the same?

Looking forward to hearing what Banshee & Deadpool think of Shaws total lack of suspicions at this point. And of each other. I am going to vote now, I have to go to a wake after work, not sure if I will be back in time (not to worry, it is a coworkers aged parent, no one close to me) so going to vote now for Shaw.

[Ned Flanders]

P. S. If a lynch does form around me, pay very careful attention to the direction whom whence it comes. The host has made a clarification, and the only point of willfully ignoring it is to avoid the lynch of someone else.

See you guys tonight

[Bullzeye]

I have a busy day today (Finalists' Friday - basically a big party to celebrate the fact we've finished uni. Me and some friends are also going to the cinema shortly). I won't be around for the lynch and will try to vote within the next hour or so but if not I'll pop back between 5 and 7 to vote.

[Gunther]

whenever i see a white queen post all i hear in my head is the teacher from the peanuts goin WAH WAH WAH WAH WAH

I'm so done with people telling me I'm being personal when people post this bullshit.

Hey, no worries

Pedantic is not the worst thing I have ever been called

And Deadpool and Rasputin, considering that I have been saying for ages that Hawkeye & Polaris were bad (and they were ) why would you think I am not interested in lynching baddies? Just curious.

I never said I don't think you want to lynch baddies. I think you seem into the idea. Again, Hawkeye wasn't exactly bad, but not-civ-aligned is close enough, I guess.

mikhail i think havok asked u a ? about bullz that i wouldnt mind seein ur answer 2

Was the question what I think of him? I haven't really thought about it a lot. I'll look at his votes and posts and get back to ya.

Hawkeye wasn't exactly bad? What is your definition of a baddie then? Mine is someone who kills and can't win with civvies.

[Gunther]

wait a second... it wasn't a very detailed or extensive case, but there very much was a case on marrow, marrow was even leading in visible votes that day before i think one or two players switched theirs away

that.... is actually a pretty interesting idea :hmmm:

it would depend greatly on whether passive role aspects would count as mutant powers which could be lost though. it would suck to waste a lynch.

epig, would passive reflexive powers have been removed last night as well as active targeting powers?

i'm not sure if i worded that correctly...

Do you have time to look it up for me then please? I must've missed it. And it'd be interesting to see who switched away, as well.

As far as the powers question, Epi answered something similar before. Looked to me like Apocalypse would still survive lynches.

Deadpool, as to your question on Bullz, we rezzed him because the theory was he was Dazzler, and Bullz basically confirmed.

I couldnt follow the rezz stuff much, can anyone tell me ehich sock names we assume eloh and bullz to be?

I'm not sure if we can outright say, but people figured mine out pretty well. I'm kinda disappointed actually, I figured nobody would guess who I was since I wasn't supposed to be around.

Dazzler was double-NKed by the baddies and Sentinels. So I think just based on that, it's real unlikely Bullz is bad. I suppose it's plausible that Bullz was Mystique and Domino was bad, while Exodus and Shadowcat were both good, but that means Sabretooth's power was redirceted to a teammate that night.

So beyond my immediate skepticism of Bullz's evilness, there's his posts and votes. He voted Phoenix the day after his rezz, saying he didn't understand Hawkeye's logic of voting for Marrow if he thought Magneto had targeted Marrow. I agree that it was a bit confusing, but I think it was likely a typo on Hawkeye's part. (I don't know whether that was ever confirmed.) Phoenix was later killed by Hawkeye, somewhat ironically. So we don't actually know her alignment.

The next day he voted Hawkeye (pretty self-explanatory).

Yesterday, obviously, he voted Spiral. I dunno, to me personally, he sounds well-reasoned there and not particularly subversive. I mean, he says he went with Spiral because he thought Spiral was trying to claim civ cred for helping lynch Hawkeye (which I would agree he's done) and said the votes on Polaris lacked substantive backing (which imo was probably true as well). He was wrong about Polaris, but everyone's wrong sometimes.

So I guess all in all I'm leaning pretty solidly civ on Bullz. If he were just any player, I say he's firmly in "I dunno" territory with me, but we rezzed him specifically because of all the NKed people he seemed least likely to be bad. I feel like it's kinda a waste to throw that logic out, and I think we'd likely waste a lynch and a civ life if we lynched him.

Linki: I agree with Banshee. She more or less claimed the role, if you read back, and her tone has changed since.

Solidly civvie on Bullz, you say? You don't think it's possible that Bullz is Sabretooth? Dazzler was killed on night 3 and on night 5 Pyro takes over the NKs for the Brotherhood.

Participants in this Exercise:

Avalanche Link - Killed Night 7 by The Sentinels. Resurrected Night 9.
Banshee Link
Bastion Link - Killed Night 5 by The Sentinels
Cable Link - Killed Night 5 by Omega Red
Dazzler Link - Killed Night 3 by Sabretooth and The Sentinels
Deadpool Link
Deathlok Link - Destroyed Day 1 ... Bishop
Domino Link - Destroyed Day 5.1 ... Gambit
Exodus Link - Destroyed Day 4 ... Gambit
Havok Link
Hawkeye Link - Destroyed Day 9 ... The Sentinels
Longshot Link
Marrow Link - Destroyed Day 8 ... Blob
Mikhail Rasputin Link
Mojo Link - Killed Night 5 by Pyro
Phoenix Link - Killed Night 8 by The Sentinels
Polaris Link - Destroyed Day 10 ... Toad
Quicksilver Link - Destroyed Day 3 ... Psylocke
Scarlet Witch Link - Assassinated Night 2 by Psylocke
Sebastian Shaw Link
Shadowcat Link
Spiral Link
Sunfire Link - - Destroyed Day 5.2 ... Rogue
Thunderbird Link - Destroyed Day 2 ... Forge
The Vision Link - Killed Night 9 by Pyro.
White Queen Link
Bullzeye - Brought back Night 7.
Elohcin - Brought back Night 7.

Alive: 12
Dead: 14

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

[Gunther]

Granted, I know I am not the first person to propose this idea. It was talked about quite a bit while Bullzeye was dead, but I dismissed it. I think that was a mistake in hindsight.

[2 Stupid Dogs]

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

Are we 100% sure Bullzeye is Sabretooth? I'm generally not good at this role-person-player identification thing. If so, I would tend to agree with you, to be honest.

[Rachel Green]

Solidly civvie on Bullz, you say? You don't think it's possible that Bullz is Sabretooth? Dazzler was killed on night 3 and on night 5 Pyro takes over the NKs for the Brotherhood.

Participants in this Exercise:

Avalanche Link - Killed Night 7 by The Sentinels. Resurrected Night 9.
Banshee Link
Bastion Link - Killed Night 5 by The Sentinels
Cable Link - Killed Night 5 by Omega Red
Dazzler Link - Killed Night 3 by Sabretooth and The Sentinels
Deadpool Link
Deathlok Link - Destroyed Day 1 ... Bishop
Domino Link - Destroyed Day 5.1 ... Gambit
Exodus Link - Destroyed Day 4 ... Gambit
Havok Link
Hawkeye Link - Destroyed Day 9 ... The Sentinels
Longshot Link
Marrow Link - Destroyed Day 8 ... Blob
Mikhail Rasputin Link
Mojo Link - Killed Night 5 by Pyro
Phoenix Link - Killed Night 8 by The Sentinels
Polaris Link - Destroyed Day 10 ... Toad
Quicksilver Link - Destroyed Day 3 ... Psylocke
Scarlet Witch Link - Assassinated Night 2 by Psylocke
Sebastian Shaw Link
Shadowcat Link
Spiral Link
Sunfire Link - - Destroyed Day 5.2 ... Rogue
Thunderbird Link - Destroyed Day 2 ... Forge
The Vision Link - Killed Night 9 by Pyro.
White Queen Link
Bullzeye - Brought back Night 7.
Elohcin - Brought back Night 7.

Alive: 12
Dead: 14

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

Havoc, this certainly seems plausible. The evidence about who was killed between the time Sabretooth last killed and Pyro's take over seems solid. You may have convinced me of a Bullz vote, I just need to do a look back at that lynch to assure myself how Sabretooth's kill got redirected to himself (that is what you're saying right? or have I misunderstood?). I remember suspecting that something was off with that whole kill because two entities targeted Dazzler.

[Joe Who?]

I don't know. I have to think.

Deadpool, what are your thoughts on this post? I am curious what you think of someone with no suspicions at this point in the game?

Same question to Banshee.

And by the way, Banshee, I think a switch to Deadpool was a wise move. You don't? Do you have an opinion of Deadpool?

that post just says "i don't know, i have to think" so there's not much to read into without any context, it's literally just a void of content lol.

oh! you mean the fact that he doesn't have any thoughts to present at this point in the game? many of his other posts seem to be like that as well recently... there was a significant drop in content from him following the night bullz and elohcin were rezzed

i was just pointing out that a switch to deadpool is a thing that happened, not saying that it was a bad thing. there were a couple posts deadpool has made where i remember going "whoa! that is helpful and a good idea that i wish i had had" but thinking back, those posts were specific to trying to inhibit apocalypse.

And Banshee, what specific behavioral change? If people come up with a theory saying I cannot die who am I to tell them no? I am pretty good at being something I am not, but when people pin a label on you, and the label is the best possible role to be from a perspective of not drawing NKs and not drawing faux lynch cases, why in Gods name would I try to pretend to be other than what people are saying I am?

If I go with the flow when it's a favorable flow for me, well, why not? Would you not do the same?

i guess that would be the behavioral change, you basically illustrated it perfectly right there. the whole "if they think this, then i will behave this way because it suits my purposes" thing. and that day where you chose your own unique person to vote for and waited until the very end to vote... these are all things that seem to make more sense from an indy, "just survive" perspective.

that said... i'm actually not quite as sure about you being apocalypse as i used to be, someone made a comment about that behavior being usual for the player they think you are and that gives me pause. but it really doesn't matter much now, since we have no clear way of taking care of apocalypse anyways. lol

[Joe Who?]

Solidly civvie on Bullz, you say? You don't think it's possible that Bullz is Sabretooth? Dazzler was killed on night 3 and on night 5 Pyro takes over the NKs for the Brotherhood.

Participants in this Exercise:

Avalanche Link - Killed Night 7 by The Sentinels. Resurrected Night 9.
Banshee Link
Bastion Link - Killed Night 5 by The Sentinels
Cable Link - Killed Night 5 by Omega Red
Dazzler Link - Killed Night 3 by Sabretooth and The Sentinels
Deadpool Link
Deathlok Link - Destroyed Day 1 ... Bishop
Domino Link - Destroyed Day 5.1 ... Gambit
Exodus Link - Destroyed Day 4 ... Gambit
Havok Link
Hawkeye Link - Destroyed Day 9 ... The Sentinels
Longshot Link
Marrow Link - Destroyed Day 8 ... Blob
Mikhail Rasputin Link
Mojo Link - Killed Night 5 by Pyro
Phoenix Link - Killed Night 8 by The Sentinels
Polaris Link - Destroyed Day 10 ... Toad
Quicksilver Link - Destroyed Day 3 ... Psylocke
Scarlet Witch Link - Assassinated Night 2 by Psylocke
Sebastian Shaw Link
Shadowcat Link
Spiral Link
Sunfire Link - - Destroyed Day 5.2 ... Rogue
Thunderbird Link - Destroyed Day 2 ... Forge
The Vision Link - Killed Night 9 by Pyro.
White Queen Link
Bullzeye - Brought back Night 7.
Elohcin - Brought back Night 7.

Alive: 12
Dead: 14

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

Havoc, this certainly seems plausible. The evidence about who was killed between the time Sabretooth last killed and Pyro's take over seems solid. You may have convinced me of a Bullz vote, I just need to do a look back at that lynch to assure myself how Sabretooth's kill got redirected to himself (that is what you're saying right? or have I misunderstood?). I remember suspecting that something was off with that whole kill because two entities targeted Dazzler.

that is a pretty good point, i hadn't noticed that before. i'd like to see what bullz has to say in response

[Gunther]

Solidly civvie on Bullz, you say? You don't think it's possible that Bullz is Sabretooth? Dazzler was killed on night 3 and on night 5 Pyro takes over the NKs for the Brotherhood.

Participants in this Exercise:

Avalanche Link - Killed Night 7 by The Sentinels. Resurrected Night 9.
Banshee Link
Bastion Link - Killed Night 5 by The Sentinels
Cable Link - Killed Night 5 by Omega Red
Dazzler Link - Killed Night 3 by Sabretooth and The Sentinels
Deadpool Link
Deathlok Link - Destroyed Day 1 ... Bishop
Domino Link - Destroyed Day 5.1 ... Gambit
Exodus Link - Destroyed Day 4 ... Gambit
Havok Link
Hawkeye Link - Destroyed Day 9 ... The Sentinels
Longshot Link
Marrow Link - Destroyed Day 8 ... Blob
Mikhail Rasputin Link
Mojo Link - Killed Night 5 by Pyro
Phoenix Link - Killed Night 8 by The Sentinels
Polaris Link - Destroyed Day 10 ... Toad
Quicksilver Link - Destroyed Day 3 ... Psylocke
Scarlet Witch Link - Assassinated Night 2 by Psylocke
Sebastian Shaw Link
Shadowcat Link
Spiral Link
Sunfire Link - - Destroyed Day 5.2 ... Rogue
Thunderbird Link - Destroyed Day 2 ... Forge
The Vision Link - Killed Night 9 by Pyro.
White Queen Link
Bullzeye - Brought back Night 7.
Elohcin - Brought back Night 7.

Alive: 12
Dead: 14

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

Havoc, this certainly seems plausible. The evidence about who was killed between the time Sabretooth last killed and Pyro's take over seems solid. You may have convinced me of a Bullz vote, I just need to do a look back at that lynch to assure myself how Sabretooth's kill got redirected to himself (that is what you're saying right? or have I misunderstood?). I remember suspecting that something was off with that whole kill because two entities targeted Dazzler.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. I dismissed it when it was first brought up as unlikely, but I think I was just suffering from a bit of tunnel vision during my fake info dump theory.

Well, I don't know if we are 100% sure that Bullzeye is Sabretooth, but I think we are very close to knowing that Dazzler was Sabretooth. And if Bullzeye was Dazzler (and Bullzeye has basically confirmed this), then it's likely that Bullzeye=Sabretooth=Dazzler.

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

Are we 100% sure Bullzeye is Sabretooth? I'm generally not good at this role-person-player identification thing. If so, I would tend to agree with you, to be honest.

[Gunther]

Oops. I typed this in the wrong spot. This is the reply to Spiral:

Well, I don't know if we are 100% sure that Bullzeye is Sabretooth, but I think we are very close to knowing that Dazzler was Sabretooth. And if Bullzeye was Dazzler (and Bullzeye has basically confirmed this), then it's likely that Bullzeye=Sabretooth=Dazzler.

[Bullzeye]

I have no idea what happened to Sabretooth but that isn't me. Yeah I was Dazzler. I died and Sabretooth stopped killing, which looks bad. But I came back and Sabretooth still isn't killing. Think of that one?

[Bullzeye]

If I was Sabretooth I'd expect you guys to pick up on the fact that his killings stopped after I died. I'd flat out deny having been Dazzler upon getting rezzed or just not mention it at all. Also I'd have started killing again. As far as I know both the baddies and Hawkeye genuinely decided they wanted me dead at the same time and I had no way to prevent it, so I died at both their hands. Maybe some kind soul redirected a kill in my direction. I don't know. There's not exactly a lot I can say in my own defense here and I don't really have much time to be around tonight, I have other plans that don't involve sitting here fruitlessly defending myself, so if people want me dead then just do it. I'm a very easy setup to get the baddies closer to their win I guess.

[Rachel Green]

Bullz, I saw the exact same situation in another game and the person when rezzed did not resume their killing because they knew they would be found out. I understand you are not going to sit around defending yourself but if you have time can you tell me if you are not Sabertooth do you have another thought on why the kills stopped when they did?

[Operator]

i'm still leaning towards white queen, i think the behavioral change after the white queen/apocalypse theory became prevalent seems telling.

If I'm right about who White Queen is IRL, then this would be typical of her given the way some players have treated her.

EBWOP: However, Spiral, if you want to never ever try killing me, I totally support that motion. So carry on, please.

What makes you think I shouldn't believe White Queen isn't riding that same train? Why is she special?

Wouldn't it be mutually beneficial to the two of you if you were Apocalypse and actually couldn't die, and everyone thought she was Apocalypse so didn't bother trying to kill her?

Yeah it totally would. I'm just not sure how we would set that up, since we don't have BTSC.

Looking forward to hearing what Banshee & Deadpool think of Shaws total lack of suspicions at this point. And of each other. I am going to vote now, I have to go to a wake after work, not sure if I will be back in time (not to worry, it is a coworkers aged parent, no one close to me) so going to vote now for Shaw.

He survived a lynch! Baddies CANNOT DO THAT.

[Operator]

wait a second... it wasn't a very detailed or extensive case, but there very much was a case on marrow, marrow was even leading in visible votes that day before i think one or two players switched theirs away

that.... is actually a pretty interesting idea :hmmm:

it would depend greatly on whether passive role aspects would count as mutant powers which could be lost though. it would suck to waste a lynch.

epig, would passive reflexive powers have been removed last night as well as active targeting powers?

i'm not sure if i worded that correctly...

Do you have time to look it up for me then please? I must've missed it. And it'd be interesting to see who switched away, as well.

As far as the powers question, Epi answered something similar before. Looked to me like Apocalypse would still survive lynches.

Deadpool, as to your question on Bullz, we rezzed him because the theory was he was Dazzler, and Bullz basically confirmed.

I couldnt follow the rezz stuff much, can anyone tell me ehich sock names we assume eloh and bullz to be?

I'm not sure if we can outright say, but people figured mine out pretty well. I'm kinda disappointed actually, I figured nobody would guess who I was since I wasn't supposed to be around.

Dazzler was double-NKed by the baddies and Sentinels. So I think just based on that, it's real unlikely Bullz is bad. I suppose it's plausible that Bullz was Mystique and Domino was bad, while Exodus and Shadowcat were both good, but that means Sabretooth's power was redirceted to a teammate that night.

So beyond my immediate skepticism of Bullz's evilness, there's his posts and votes. He voted Phoenix the day after his rezz, saying he didn't understand Hawkeye's logic of voting for Marrow if he thought Magneto had targeted Marrow. I agree that it was a bit confusing, but I think it was likely a typo on Hawkeye's part. (I don't know whether that was ever confirmed.) Phoenix was later killed by Hawkeye, somewhat ironically. So we don't actually know her alignment.

The next day he voted Hawkeye (pretty self-explanatory).

Yesterday, obviously, he voted Spiral. I dunno, to me personally, he sounds well-reasoned there and not particularly subversive. I mean, he says he went with Spiral because he thought Spiral was trying to claim civ cred for helping lynch Hawkeye (which I would agree he's done) and said the votes on Polaris lacked substantive backing (which imo was probably true as well). He was wrong about Polaris, but everyone's wrong sometimes.

So I guess all in all I'm leaning pretty solidly civ on Bullz. If he were just any player, I say he's firmly in "I dunno" territory with me, but we rezzed him specifically because of all the NKed people he seemed least likely to be bad. I feel like it's kinda a waste to throw that logic out, and I think we'd likely waste a lynch and a civ life if we lynched him.

Linki: I agree with Banshee. She more or less claimed the role, if you read back, and her tone has changed since.

Solidly civvie on Bullz, you say? You don't think it's possible that Bullz is Sabretooth? Dazzler was killed on night 3 and on night 5 Pyro takes over the NKs for the Brotherhood.

Participants in this Exercise:

Avalanche Link - Killed Night 7 by The Sentinels. Resurrected Night 9.
Banshee Link
Bastion Link - Killed Night 5 by The Sentinels
Cable Link - Killed Night 5 by Omega Red
Dazzler Link - Killed Night 3 by Sabretooth and The Sentinels
Deadpool Link
Deathlok Link - Destroyed Day 1 ... Bishop
Domino Link - Destroyed Day 5.1 ... Gambit
Exodus Link - Destroyed Day 4 ... Gambit
Havok Link
Hawkeye Link - Destroyed Day 9 ... The Sentinels
Longshot Link
Marrow Link - Destroyed Day 8 ... Blob
Mikhail Rasputin Link
Mojo Link - Killed Night 5 by Pyro
Phoenix Link - Killed Night 8 by The Sentinels
Polaris Link - Destroyed Day 10 ... Toad
Quicksilver Link - Destroyed Day 3 ... Psylocke
Scarlet Witch Link - Assassinated Night 2 by Psylocke
Sebastian Shaw Link
Shadowcat Link
Spiral Link
Sunfire Link - - Destroyed Day 5.2 ... Rogue
Thunderbird Link - Destroyed Day 2 ... Forge
The Vision Link - Killed Night 9 by Pyro.
White Queen Link
Bullzeye - Brought back Night 7.
Elohcin - Brought back Night 7.

Alive: 12
Dead: 14

Now, I think I was subscribing to the theory that Dazzler was a civvie and that it was unlikely that the kill could have been redirected to the killer, but look at the above quoted host post.

Dazzler is killed on night 3 by Sabretooth. Pyro takes over the team's NK on Night 5. Who dies between nights 3 and 5? Domino, Exodus, and Sunfire. That's it. All 3 were lynched and none of them were Sabretooth. No other kills occurred between Sabretooth's last kill and Pyro's first.

Dazzler must have been Sabretooth. If Bullzeye is Dazzler, I am voting for Bullzeye today. Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't???

When I first read this, I thought "Damn, that is a really smart theory. Good shit." If true it means Bullz was bad, as was Domino, SC and Exodus were good, and Bullz's kill got redirected to himself. It would make it tough to explain why Domino role claimed Gambit after Exodus' death, though. If that's what happened, she basically got herself killed for no reason.

However, Bullz's defense gives me pause. If he was Sabretooth, why is Pyro still carrying out the kills for the Brotherhood?

Linki: Longshot, you're right that it would be smart not to kill anyone. However, the baddies are still killing people, just Sabretooth isn't doing it.

I dunno, I could see Epi either thinking Sabretooth should have the kill back if rezzed so as to be fair to the civs, or not so as to be fair to the baddies. I feel like Bullz's defense should be valid, but I can't say for sure.

[Nicol Bolas]

mikhail u talk a lot but i have no idea who ur considerin a vote 4 today........ u have made no mention of your top spishuns and we r only 5 hours away from deadline.

[Operator]

I will say I like that we're talking so much today.

Oh, and that if Bullz isn't bad, either Cable or Bastion was. However, that all requires the assumption that Epi basically wrote the post as if Sabretooth were killed before executing his kill. Not sure why he'd do that, (could be order PMs were sent, maybe?) so I'm not totally comfortable with the idea.

Linki: Well, I think Shaw is a TERRIBLE idea for a lynch. I'm leaning slightly away from a Bullz lynch at the moment, but I'd still like to discuss it more and see what others think of what I posted. I'm strongly considering a Longshot vote, and thinking about one for you as well.

Who are you thinking of voting today?

[Gunther]

Rasputin: If Bullzeye is Sabretooth, why would that have any affect on Domino's and Exodus's roles?

And as for Sabretooth not resuming the killing, that would be kinda shitty of the host would it not? To rezz and then immediately be outed in the night post? I've seen this before where a baddie killer was rezzed but did not resume killing so as not to out that person. I'm kinda surprised that you are backing up Bullzeye's post like that, Rasputin.

[Gunther]

I will say I like that we're talking so much today.

Oh, and that if Bullz isn't bad, either Cable or Bastion was. However, that all requires the assumption that Epi basically wrote the post as if Sabretooth were killed before executing his kill. Not sure why he'd do that, (could be order PMs were sent, maybe?) so I'm not totally comfortable with the idea.

Linki: Well, I think Shaw is a TERRIBLE idea for a lynch. I'm leaning slightly away from a Bullz lynch at the moment, but I'd still like to discuss it more and see what others think of what I posted. I'm strongly considering a Longshot vote, and thinking about one for you as well.

Who are you thinking of voting today?

Epignosis: If a player is nightkilled, does their power still go through for that night?

Yes.

[Young Lady]

So uhm... when I am being rezzed?

You and me both.

Wanna go grab a bite to eat?

I'd love to! How about some Del Taco? And no I'm not a cheap date, I can put those tacos away. And they cater to those on the zombie diet too!

I could go for some brains tacos.

Not one, but TWO women who know what they want.