Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:05 am
What do you suspect me for?
Not sure what this line is a response to, or about.
They're connected. At first I disliked the "not being here" thing, then I disliked what I saw as an OMGUS vote.
Since then, you've both shown up and developed your read, so both reasons for not liking your play have been resolved. And while I don't like your read on me, it's coherent and reasoned, so I can't say you're just making things up or anything like that.
I guess you can respond to this one alongside my first question. Interested in what you don't like about it.
I don't like it when people think I'm a wolf
I think you've moved up in being town-read, despite me not liking that you did that by pushing me further down into the POE. I have no idea if that makes sense.
Okay, put differently: You're doing town-y things now which makes it more likely you're town, and since I'm interested in finding villagers that's a good thing. Maybe eventually I can convince you I'm town too.
I'm not sure how exactly they can play off of it. When they start posting more, wouldn't they be forced to actually to come up with something themselves? Like I'm not sure how it is so agenda-y which makes me unable to see how it's inherently scummy on its own. Is your issue with it the reactions its provide that can then be used by the when making it to fake cases? If so, aren't reaction reads a staple of civilian reads? What made this one evil?
A very quick hypothetical example:
Person A: "Town."
Person B: "I agree. How they responded to Person C gave me town vibes."
*later*
Person D: "Person A, what's your read on that guy?"
Person A: [repeats what Person B said]
In a vacuum, totally fine. You can read someone's case, agree, and make it your own. But if acquiring reads by making people fill in the blanks is the only thing you're doing...
Another side of it is that if someone just says "town" or "scum," they're not actually telling you anything. Okay, you think some guy is town and you've quoted a post. Why? How does that relate to their other posts, to the people they've interacted with? Even just "it's a vibe" is something possibly usable later. As-is, a one-word reply is empty.
Fair enough. Do you usually find suspicious not participation or shitposts by default? Also if it isn't against the rules, could you share which forum do you usually play at?
Not inherently. I don't think sharing where I'm from is against the rules, so I'll say I'm from CFC/CivFanatics Center. There, it's often modus operandi for wolves to slank or meme their way to a victory, and the town usually adopts a liberal interpretation of Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf. People who just joke around or go inactive without doing anything else are usually a decent bet to flip as scum. It used to be the case that those people were given the benefit of the doubt because "surely wolves wouldn't do that every time," but then the wolves would do that every time. I guess it could just be that I've grown bitter about it.
I like banter, it's my favourite part of Mafia, but nearing EOD and then as the game progresses I do think more seriousness is warranted. Like if we're trying to solve, or at least poke holes in reads, it's specifically detrimental to town for there to be villagers (or wolves) just doing their own thing, game state be damned. You can't solve someone just joking around without flipping them or mech-clearing them somehow, and if they never offer a read, or if they never offer a read that's reasoned, then they're not helping the rest of town either. Then the people who ARE playing the game have to find a way to win in spite of their supposed-to-be allies.
So I err towards resolving slankers and jokers in the early game if they don't *play the game* at some point, barring scum slips, total meltdowns, and wolf play (like making a read based off of made-up information and presenting it like cold hard facts). If you ask someone to give you a read or to respond to someone else's case and they just go "nah," I have no problem considering that anti-town and on the list of things to be excised. A soccer goalie who just sits down in the middle of the goal might stop a couple shots over the course of the game but their team is going to be pissed that their teammate is opting out when they specifically agreed to play that game. To an extent I think that applies here. If every villager pulls a Milhouse or a Homer, then it's a guaranteed loss almost every time. I don't mind taking it easy, that's my go-to when I'm not writing big posts like these, but there's gotta be something to work with at some point.
