Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[Alison]

@Sloonei I think your points make sense and I like them

I wanna ask about something else now though which is, I'd rather move on from this at this point (which maybe is a bit selfish because I understand your point and don't need to talk about it more while others might) though, because I think it'd be better in the case spf is town to not push it for the next 28 hours we have, and still useful if she's mafia anyway

This is me saying I think SPF could be mafia but I also want to find her town, and if you wanna do the same our way to do that right now is drop the push until tonight imo

as I made this post like 5 other people said something similar which makes me uncomfortable, though

my take on SPF is that as much as she would like to pretend to be a tryhard player who brings energy to the game she's not-so-secretly in it for the fun of interacting with people she enjoys playing with, which is why her play amps up when she gets to play with hally tutuu etc., and because of this she routinely tries to engage the thread as a whole with high-effort stuff like reaction tests, asking for thoughts on X and minigames (GTH games, trust falls) as either alignment. I've seen similar patterns of behavior play out even when SPF is town where she does something "tryhard", doesn't seem to have the conviction to really fish for reactions or scum thinking behind it, and gets scumread for not contributing enough or not having authentic enough solving.

the upshot of all this is that I don't really see much of her play up until this point as being really powerfully indicative of alignment. it's just bread and butter SPF stuff. if mac or sloonei does a reaction test and there's no bite behind it then maybe someone's a wolf. but if SPF or tutuu does a reaction test and there's no bite behind it then they're just being their usual high energy high participation look at me selves.

[staypositivefriend]

sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it

mind meld

one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

[Alison]

@Sloonei

Question for you.

spf brought Alison up to you as someone you should suspect. She had two posts at the time.

C4 lays into Alison the second she shows up again.

What's up with that?

this is the EXACT BEAT FOR BEAT kind of post a wolf egging on a town to push town makes

He brings up two things with tenuous at best connections, ignores the context of them, and doesn't draw his own conclusions, but gives leading questions for someone else to make these conclusions for him

C4 pushing Alison wasn't based on a case he made, agreed with, or any such thing, it was based on Alisons interactions with him. Spf mentioning Alison doesn't really matter and she just wanted to talk about some of the posts Alison made

The only possible wolfy connection here is that these two are teamed and both decided to push Alison pre-game for ??? reasons

Which makes no sense and doesn't fit with the fact C4's push was reactive, not something he came out with himself

my main problem with this is that it's also how tunneled town eggs on other players to push their pet read

[Dom]

@Dom were any of his posts helpful or even about other players

No.
I just don't get what you mean? Is he shitposting for clout? For cover?

[Sloonei]

@Sloonei I think your points make sense and I like them

I wanna ask about something else now though which is, I'd rather move on from this at this point (which maybe is a bit selfish because I understand your point and don't need to talk about it more while others might) though, because I think it'd be better in the case spf is town to not push it for the next 28 hours we have, and still useful if she's mafia anyway

This is me saying I think SPF could be mafia but I also want to find her town, and if you wanna do the same our way to do that right now is drop the push until tonight imo

as I made this post like 5 other people said something similar which makes me uncomfortable, though

my take on SPF is that as much as she would like to pretend to be a tryhard player who brings energy to the game she's not-so-secretly in it for the fun of interacting with people she enjoys playing with, which is why her play amps up when she gets to play with hally tutuu etc., and because of this she routinely tries to engage the thread as a whole with high-effort stuff like reaction tests, asking for thoughts on X and minigames (GTH games, trust falls) as either alignment. I've seen similar patterns of behavior play out even when SPF is town where she does something "tryhard", doesn't seem to have the conviction to really fish for reactions or scum thinking behind it, and gets scumread for not contributing enough or not having authentic enough solving.

the upshot of all this is that I don't really see much of her play up until this point as being really powerfully indicative of alignment. it's just bread and butter SPF stuff. if mac or sloonei does a reaction test and there's no bite behind it then maybe someone's a wolf. but if SPF or tutuu does a reaction test and there's no bite behind it then they're just being their usual high energy high participation look at me selves.

If I have a blind spot with spf, it is that I have only seen her town game in the high volume, high effort environment of Champs. I don’t really know what she’d look like in a more casual environment.

[Dom]

sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it

mind meld

one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

I will help you out here and say I would be surprised if Alison could provide you any idea of what is typical of my gameplay Some of the more classical Syndicate Players could help you with that.

[Alison]

sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it

mind meld

one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

I think Dom is walking into this game knowing jack and shit and a lot of the posts he makes feels fired from the hip. foresight accused him of lifting cases wholesale from scum BTSC, but I've had the opposite impression - his tone feels organic and there are some twists of wording ("what fresh hell is this? vague on vague on vague. I am not entertained") that feel like they come from the heart and certainly don't fit with the idea that he's just citing the party line someone else cooked up.

The emotion and gradually increasing annoyance transitioning into a straight tunnel on foresight is, I think, genuine, and if it is genuine then that makes it much less likely that he's a mafioso setting foresight up. on a more abstract level, I get a sense of isolation and "going solo" from his play - even the people who townread him and agree with his pushes aren't really angling at things the same way, or pushing the same narratives, as he is.

[Sloonei]

sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it

mind meld

one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

I will help you out here and say I would be surprised if Alison could provide you any idea of what is typical of my gameplay Some of the more classical Syndicate Players could help you with that.

Dom’s play so far is in line with typical Dom meta. I think he is town because this feels like an excited version of Dom who’s happy to be playing with old friends and new faces and is eager to shake off the rust. I think he might appear a little more subdued if he is bad here.

[KZA]

@Dom were any of his posts helpful or even about other players

No.
I just don't get what you mean? Is he shitposting for clout? For cover?

uh okay whatever

[Alison]

If I have a blind spot with spf, it is that I have only seen her town game in the high volume, high effort environment of Champs. I don’t really know what she’d look like in a more casual environment.

I think this opening is reasonably similar to Bread Mafia where she was suspected and POE'd for much the same reasons and ended up being town who blocked the scum nightkill three times in a row.

[Esooa]

@Sloonei

Question for you.

spf brought Alison up to you as someone you should suspect. She had two posts at the time.

C4 lays into Alison the second she shows up again.

What's up with that?

this is the EXACT BEAT FOR BEAT kind of post a wolf egging on a town to push town makes

He brings up two things with tenuous at best connections, ignores the context of them, and doesn't draw his own conclusions, but gives leading questions for someone else to make these conclusions for him

C4 pushing Alison wasn't based on a case he made, agreed with, or any such thing, it was based on Alisons interactions with him. Spf mentioning Alison doesn't really matter and she just wanted to talk about some of the posts Alison made

The only possible wolfy connection here is that these two are teamed and both decided to push Alison pre-game for ??? reasons

Which makes no sense and doesn't fit with the fact C4's push was reactive, not something he came out with himself

my main problem with this is that it's also how tunneled town eggs on other players to push their pet read

Disagree. The questions he asks feel to me like they're obviously leading, but he doesn't give any actual thought on it himself. Like literally zero.

[Dom]

@Dom were any of his posts helpful or even about other players

No.
I just don't get what you mean? Is he shitposting for clout? For cover?

uh okay whatever

Is there a reason when I try and understand these new (to me) people they just rebuff me?

[Dom]

@Sloonei

Question for you.

spf brought Alison up to you as someone you should suspect. She had two posts at the time.

C4 lays into Alison the second she shows up again.

What's up with that?

this is the EXACT BEAT FOR BEAT kind of post a wolf egging on a town to push town makes

He brings up two things with tenuous at best connections, ignores the context of them, and doesn't draw his own conclusions, but gives leading questions for someone else to make these conclusions for him

C4 pushing Alison wasn't based on a case he made, agreed with, or any such thing, it was based on Alisons interactions with him. Spf mentioning Alison doesn't really matter and she just wanted to talk about some of the posts Alison made

The only possible wolfy connection here is that these two are teamed and both decided to push Alison pre-game for ??? reasons

Which makes no sense and doesn't fit with the fact C4's push was reactive, not something he came out with himself

my main problem with this is that it's also how tunneled town eggs on other players to push their pet read

Disagree. The questions he asks feel to me like they're obviously leading, but he doesn't give any actual thought on it himself. Like literally zero.

I literally said that I think the lack of specificity on C4's part in his response was suspicious. I laid into this. I didn't ask anyone else to. You are just fabricating things because you don't' like how I hard I went after someone you like. Sorry not sorry.

[Dom]

omg anyone who's been bad with me is L O L ing to themselves at the idea of me having BTSC cook up cases for me. I am DECEASED

[TonyStarkPrime]

Yes it’s what it’s called when I chop someone.

What interests you about my highest townread

Odd reply. Why are you being cagey about townreads?

I haven't been cagey about this, this info is available itt

[Alison]

sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it

mind meld

one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

taking a moment to address the first point about bad faith - dom is tunneling. I don't mean this in a perjorative sense, since I think there's a good chance foresight is mafia and he's tunnelling on mafia, which is obviously great play. but in a more general sense his viewpoint is locked onto "foresight is scum, now how do I prove it". this means he's probably going to end up making posts that are, eg. overtly leading, make extremely uncharitable assumptions, or beg the question - all of which is "bad faith logic", but is just indicative that the person in question is tunnelled. see the way I attacked esooa in overtime mafia for a particularly striking example of this phenomenon

when I look for mafia logic, I'm looking for logic that is fake, artificial, performative, or intended to push a scummy agenda. see my case on foresight for an example of what I view as the difference.

[Esooa]

@Sloonei

Question for you.

spf brought Alison up to you as someone you should suspect. She had two posts at the time.

C4 lays into Alison the second she shows up again.

What's up with that?

this is the EXACT BEAT FOR BEAT kind of post a wolf egging on a town to push town makes

He brings up two things with tenuous at best connections, ignores the context of them, and doesn't draw his own conclusions, but gives leading questions for someone else to make these conclusions for him

C4 pushing Alison wasn't based on a case he made, agreed with, or any such thing, it was based on Alisons interactions with him. Spf mentioning Alison doesn't really matter and she just wanted to talk about some of the posts Alison made

The only possible wolfy connection here is that these two are teamed and both decided to push Alison pre-game for ??? reasons

Which makes no sense and doesn't fit with the fact C4's push was reactive, not something he came out with himself

my main problem with this is that it's also how tunneled town eggs on other players to push their pet read

Disagree. The questions he asks feel to me like they're obviously leading, but he doesn't give any actual thought on it himself. Like literally zero.

I literally said that I think the lack of specificity on C4's part in his response was suspicious. I laid into this. I didn't ask anyone else to. You are just fabricating things because you don't' like how I hard I went after someone you like. Sorry not sorry.

That has nothing to do with the connection between SPF and C4 you're drawing in the original quoted post, which is also what I'm talking about

[Dom]

A looooooooooooot of players were around last night when I voted spf.
No one really jumped on to it.

If spf were civ I'd imagine a baddie or two might hop right on.

I'm thinking about this post and it holds less water than I originally felt it did. There's a lot of factions here. Who's to say?

[Sloonei]

Dom still town. TSP town. Alison probably town.

[Alison]

Dom still town. TSP town. Alison probably town.

ever since I won the best mafioso award I've never been able to get an unqualified townread from anyone

[Sloonei]

Falcon feels good too.

BoKnows should receive some attention.

[Sloonei]

Dom still town. TSP town. Alison probably town.

ever since I won the best mafioso award I've never been able to get an unqualified townread from anyone

That is 100% of the reason for the qualifier.

[TonyStarkPrime]

If Urist is serious about the vault city post we should still chop LC I think

In what world does Urist's alleged level of seriousness equate to chopping me?

In the world of Urist's post

[Esooa]

Dom still town. TSP town. Alison probably town.

I forgot, what's your c4 read? Do you have any more thoughts on me past "lightly towny" from before?

[Sloonei]

Dom still town. TSP town. Alison probably town.

I forgot, what's your c4 read? Do you have any more thoughts on me past "lightly towny" from before?

c4 town. I still feel like you are town. Maybe a little stronger than before. Your plea about setting aside the spf push for now felt like authentic town energy.

[Alison]

Falcon feels good too.

BoKnows should receive some attention.

I don't consider BK an innocent child yet, which means that he's >rand scum.

[Esooa]

I kinda feel like, based on thread state rn, if Jess is scum a lot of her partners are low posters

Do we know how many mafia there are btw?

[Alison]

Esooa you're a lot less aggressive than usual. Why?

[Alison]

I kinda feel like, based on thread state rn, if Jess is scum a lot of her partners are low posters

Do we know how many mafia there are btw?

I think I agree with this, if she had active partners they'd be simping for her and her biggest defenders are on "this is mostly NAI and I'm bored of it"

[staypositivefriend]

I continue to not see town SPF. I am continuing to draw out my reasons for suspecting her. I just feel like something isn't right, and I'll try to highlight that is whenever I spot it. Here's one example that stands out as I look back:

Spoiler: show

spf the thread is dead an hour and a half in, this isn't the time to play coy.

there's 26 people here - i'm definitely not concerned about the thread being dead. and i feel like being coy right now :P

The fact should make you even more concerned. We have 26 slots to sort, chop chop.

You may be feeling a bit of extra urgency if these phases are shorter than you're used to. This is a relatively slow start, but I'm not concerned about the pace. It's the weekend, we have four active games on this site right now, lots of people just don't seem to be here right now. They'll show up.

I couldn't care less about the people that aren't here. Someone is here and is actively choosing to keep the game slow.

i would argue that my choice to not immediately share my two early townleans is provoking more conversation than it would if i had chosen to share them immediately

i just dont feel a sense of urgency about this game, in all honesty. the majority of people not posting on a sunday does not concern me - there's still a lot of time

On principle I like the "I have x town reads, but I'm not saying who they are" play. I condone and support it. I will never ever suspect spf strictly for doing that.

But I do suspect her for this response when pressured. The point of laying bait like that is to draw out reactions. I do not feel like spf did that adequately. I do not feel like she did it at all, really. As soon as somebody (c4) responded to it, spf's response turned defensive rather than offensive. And this response is primed and ready for an aggressive pushback from a civilian SPF: c4 hurls generic suspicion at her. She can simply ask him why this tactic bothers him. She can ask him to guess the town reads. She can do any number of things to goad this discussion further along a constructive path. Instead she simply defends her choice to introduce her reads the way that she did. There is nothing constructive in that. The play ends there without getting off the ground.

Then in the aftermath she said a few more things related to this episode that did not sit well with me:

Spoiler: show

two primary reasons:

1. cloaking my townreads in ambiguity almost always gets interesting and telling interactions out of people. in this case, i think that foresight's intense amount of stress that only grew larger as i refused to directly answer his question is likely to come from a town indicative place. his irritation felt completely authentic- i honestly don't think that foresight would care that much at all if he was playing from a scum mindset

2. one of my early townleans was on you, but i felt uncomfortable outing that early into the game for a number of reasons. (partially out of the vanity of not wanting to be wrong). the other was on foresight

I take issue with both points in this post.
1. As I said above, it felt like spf cut off the the flow of potential "interesting and telling interactions" almost immediately. I don't buy that spf was satisfied with the reactions she had gotten to that point as the fruits of her grand experiment. More on this later.
2. She felt uncomfortable outing a town read on me early in the game for a number of reasons. But she is perfectly comfortable doing it here. We've already talked a little about this. I just don't really buy this justification. I don't think spf was the least bit worried about outting a town read on me too early.

Spoiler: show

@Sloonei and @Dom -

i had early townleans on sloonei and foresight in the early game. i know that sloonei is a strong player regardless of his alignment, and i was reluctant to out an early townread on him for a number of reasons (not wanting to be wrong, feeling like outing a tr on a player like sloonei that i could not fully substantiate would draw heat on me). i had an early townlean on foresight as well, but since both of my townleans more or less boiled down to: "tone", it seemed smarter to me to imply that i had townreads without saying the specific names. this almost always get interesting and alignment-indicative reactions, like i've gone over several times in my ISO already

my choice to not out reads got some immediate and strong reactions - sloonei and foresight (ironically, my two townleans at the time) aggressively interrogated me about it, and foresight showed some sincere annoyance/anger at my refusal to name the specific names. both of these reactions strengthened the reads that i already had - i didn't think that foresight would carry a high level of internal frustration about me not outing my reads if he was playing from a scum mindset, and sloonei's questioning toward me was direct and aggressive while still carrying a broader depth of thought that i heavily associate with his towngame

those compounding factors (along w/the fact that foresight seemed genuinely annoyed) made me decide to bite the bullets and name the names. it was not intended to be a game-long reaction test that would get me a read on EVERY player here, but it helped me get a more confident townread on the two townleans i already had

i want this post to be a reference for any lingering questions you have about my early reads - i don't want to get caught up in defending myself against points that i've already expanded on, because my scumhunting will probably suffer as a result

Here's why I struggle to accept that spf was satisfied with the results of her reaction test: the only people who had reacted to it were the two people she claims to have been town-reading in the first place. If I were town and in spf's shoes here, this wouldn't be even a remotely satisfying result. I'd want more people to chime in before I deem the reaction test a success. I would not want to run a reaction test early in the game just for the purpose of solidifying my two early town reads. If I did, I would not be holding it up as a productive experience. I also would not be saying it has resulted in a lot of valuable or productive dialogue if the dialogue was just blanket suspicion against me. That can become valuable dialogue, but you need to work to do something with it. I do not see spf doing that.

a couple of things:

1. part of the intent behind not outing my reads early on was to draw out reactions - and you specifically draw attention to an interaction i had w/foresight where i act more defensive and don't try to goad him into reacting to me

the reason i didn't goad foresight there is because he was already goaded - his responses to me were consistently annoyed and filled with an internal level of anger/frustration, he even directly accused me of "choosing to make the game slow"

so if i do something that is intended to draw out reactions, and i get a very strong reaction, then i'm not going to goad foresight on even more just for the sake of being a j*ckass. i could have asked him to guess my reads or share his own reads, but he was already annoyed with me and already (fmpov) towntelling in reaction to me, so it felt pointless to go out of my way to do something that would annoy him even more

as i mentioned before, his frustration with my test was a huge part of the reason why i dropped it as early as i did. i love drawing reactions out of people, but not at the expense of making other people feel angry/hostile. it didn't seem worth it past a certain point

2. some real-life context might be useful here, actually

around the hour of 8:00 PM (ie: the time when i made the second post that you spoilered), i was preparing to go to a virtual book club discussion, and i knew that i wouldn't have the time or the ability to respond to any posts for a while past that point (hence me dropping out of the thread for roughly 2 hours after i made those posts)

so, from my perspective, i had done a half-reaction test that had gotten one person increasingly annoyed/hostile with me, and it had gotten one of townleans (sloonei) to towntell even more from the way that he was choosing to engage with me

instead of disappearing from the thread for 2 hours with the lingering feeling of "foresight is gonna be mad lol" and with the knowledge that i wouldn't be able to engage with anyone for a while, it felt smarter to end the test right then and there instead of dragging it on.

so, it's true that i "cut off" the potential value of my test early on, but that in part stemmed from feeling like it wasn't worth picking up the exact same test that had gotten someone actively angry at me ~2 hours later when i wasn't able to post at all. it also stemmed from feeling partially like the test itself had run its course - of course i want to fish for reactions, but i had gotten a LOT (fmpov) of towntells from foresight/sloonei in reaction to the test, and two of my townleans strengthening and becoming more confident was a perfectly acceptable outcome for me

in your wallpost, you say the following: " I would not want to run a reaction test early in the game just for the purpose of solidifying my two early town reads. If I did, I would not be holding it up as a productive experience."

simply put, i disagree! any reaction is a valuable reaction, even if it comes from the two people who i was already townleaning. to be able to go from townleaning you/foresight for "tone" to having specific, concrete reasons to feel good about you was a major step for me, and it's the type of step that i need to make in games like these to create a stronger foundation for my solving. i would have preferred that more people reacted to it, but i can't control how people respond to a baity reaction-testy provocation post. i can only work with the reactions i get and go from there

addendum: you seem to take issue with me not being comfortable outing a townlean on you in the early game but then outing a townlean on you after the "test" - this is because my early townlean on you was mostly "tone/town!sloonei vibes" - the type of vague, uncharacteristic read that contains generic reasoning that any scum on auto-pilot would be able to out. it felt like a better idea to me to wait until i became more sure of your alignment and also to wait until i could articulate my townread on you better before i decided to publicly state it. your reaction to the "test" gave me the confidence to do exactly that

i really hope this helps - i understand your perspective but i also think it stems from a mismatch of mindsets/perspectives

[Esooa]

I kinda feel like, based on thread state rn, if Jess is scum a lot of her partners are low posters

Do we know how many mafia there are btw?

I think I agree with this, if she had active partners they'd be simping for her and her biggest defenders are on "this is mostly NAI and I'm bored of it"

not just that but the only person actually pushing someone who isn't Jess is Dom, who *probably* isn't scum with Jess, lol. So, I don't think any scum is pushing outside of Jess

[Esooa]

Esooa you're a lot less aggressive than usual. Why?

has it not come across yet that I'm like, actively trying to not tell everyone in the thread Jess is town because she's being pushed by Dom and Dom is dying today? That's good

I've said earlier, I'm trying to be less aggressive. It's probably not good to be

[Alison]

I kinda feel like, based on thread state rn, if Jess is scum a lot of her partners are low posters

Do we know how many mafia there are btw?

I think I agree with this, if she had active partners they'd be simping for her and her biggest defenders are on "this is mostly NAI and I'm bored of it"

not just that but the only person actually pushing someone who isn't Jess is Dom, who *probably* isn't scum with Jess, lol. So, I don't think any scum is pushing outside of Jess

I'm pushing outside of SPF. You trust me?

[Esooa]

addendum: you seem to take issue with me not being comfortable outing a townlean on you in the early game but then outing a townlean on you after the "test" - this is because my early townlean on you was mostly "tone/town!sloonei vibes" - the type of vague, uncharacteristic read that contains generic reasoning that any scum on auto-pilot would be able to out. it felt like a better idea to me to wait until i became more sure of your alignment and also to wait until i could articulate my townread on you better before i decided to publicly state it. your reaction to the "test" gave me the confidence to do exactly that

I liked Jess's post but this feels like a slip sagfdgldfasghkdfg

[c4e5g3d5]

it's getting harder for me to perceive your reasoning as being presented in good faith, even though i'm sure that you will once again perceive me concern about your carelessness in reading my lines as an ~accusation~

Would've thought you would get there before me. His attacks on you have been even worse than his attacks on me.

[Alison]

By the way the other reason not to be super concerned about SPF right now is that when she's town she has a baseline 75%~ chance to randomly be revealed as innocent child on D3 or D4 so it's usually good to wait a bit and see if that happens first

[Esooa]

I kinda feel like, based on thread state rn, if Jess is scum a lot of her partners are low posters

Do we know how many mafia there are btw?

I think I agree with this, if she had active partners they'd be simping for her and her biggest defenders are on "this is mostly NAI and I'm bored of it"

not just that but the only person actually pushing someone who isn't Jess is Dom, who *probably* isn't scum with Jess, lol. So, I don't think any scum is pushing outside of Jess

I'm pushing outside of SPF. You trust me?

eh, your c4 push hasn't felt very meaningful to me but maybe I've just not been paying attention to it enough. Guess we'll have to pay more attention to you if Jess is scum, lol

[Esooa]

the type of vague, uncharacteristic read that contains generic reasoning that any scum on auto-pilot would be able to out.

I liked Jess's post but this feels like a slip sagfdgldfasghkdfg

the bolded barely shows up so I cut it out

[falcon45ca]

BK is the lynch today, ok?



Check out his ISO, compare it to Shadow Corridors & Spiderverse...tell me I'm wrong.

[c4e5g3d5]

Fuck, fix:

what makes you so sure the votes on you are a conspiracy by teamed wolves rather than wrong town or unteamed opportunist wolves

I have nowhere said that there can't be wrong townies on me. What I have said is that there's evidence that my name was brought up as a target in BTSC, and there would be at least one partner joining that push.

where is the evidence

Read #631.

631 is not actually evidence that there are teamed wolves pushing you

for one I have a strong townread on dom and am not convinced at all that the votes on you are a conspiracy, but even if we grant that you are right that dom is looking for reasons to attack you, there is nothing to say that they were concocted in scumchat or that scumchat has other people voting you (as opposed to just giving dom talking points)

As I said in the post, it was about the nature of those attacks. There was little to no indication in those posts from Dom that he had even read my posts, especially in the post where he quoted me answering a question to say I dodged a question. Bad attacks with no thought put into them and absolute certainty coming out of them, all coming out simultaneously about the same person, the moment Dom arrived in the thread. Someone told him where to look.

You think wolves would see someone they think is an easy target and send the guy that just got to the thread to push the whole wagon on his own?

[KZA]

Falcon feels good too.

BoKnows should receive some attention.

I don't consider BK an innocent child yet, which means that he's >rand scum.

Have you seen BK as town before tho? He's been scum on all his Syndicate games so I don't get how you can say this

[staypositivefriend]

the type of vague, uncharacteristic read that contains generic reasoning that any scum on auto-pilot would be able to out.

I liked Jess's post but this feels like a slip sagfdgldfasghkdfg

the bolded barely shows up so I cut it out

lol well i'm describing how i felt my reasoning would be perceived if i outed it too early - not what it actually was

i tend to get reads in the early game where i get pinged (good or bad) by something unconscious - my gut will pick up on something that my brain isn't able to fully articulate into words until i have more time to think it through

i think something similar happened with sloonei in this game - i Felt the town!sloonei that i usually Feel, but if you asked me to articulate ~why~ his game was reminiscent of town!sloonei, it would probably be some generic babbling about tone and inquisitiveness. it wasn't until he started questioning me more that i was able to fix the dissonance between my brain and my gut

i hope that makes sense

[staypositivefriend]

BK is the lynch today, ok?



Check out his ISO, compare it to Shadow Corridors & Spiderverse...tell me I'm wrong.

as someone who has no meta on BK, why is he scummy?

[Esooa]

I wanna know Jess's current read on me, 90% for ego reasons

[falcon45ca]

BK is the lynch today, ok?



Check out his ISO, compare it to Shadow Corridors & Spiderverse...tell me I'm wrong.

as someone who has no meta on BK, why is he scummy?

Check out his ISO from the Spiderverse game to this game, tell me what you think.

[falcon45ca]

Shouldn't take long, he has few posts in both games.

[Alison]

Falcon feels good too.

BoKnows should receive some attention.

I don't consider BK an innocent child yet, which means that he's >rand scum.

Have you seen BK as town before tho? He's been scum on all his Syndicate games so I don't get how you can say this

I have, in game... 2 or 3 of the hydra season on MU.

[Alison]

Fuck, fix:

what makes you so sure the votes on you are a conspiracy by teamed wolves rather than wrong town or unteamed opportunist wolves

I have nowhere said that there can't be wrong townies on me. What I have said is that there's evidence that my name was brought up as a target in BTSC, and there would be at least one partner joining that push.

where is the evidence

Read #631.

631 is not actually evidence that there are teamed wolves pushing you

for one I have a strong townread on dom and am not convinced at all that the votes on you are a conspiracy, but even if we grant that you are right that dom is looking for reasons to attack you, there is nothing to say that they were concocted in scumchat or that scumchat has other people voting you (as opposed to just giving dom talking points)

As I said in the post, it was about the nature of those attacks. There was little to no indication in those posts from Dom that he had even read my posts, especially in the post where he quoted me answering a question to say I dodged a question. Bad attacks with no thought put into them and absolute certainty coming out of them, all coming out simultaneously about the same person, the moment Dom arrived in the thread. Someone told him where to look.

You think wolves would see someone they think is an easy target and send the guy that just got to the thread to push the whole wagon on his own?

I think if you believe that someone is showing up to repeat words put in his mouth by someone else, that makes more sense if they're the designated messenger, whereas if that someone else was already on the wagon, they would be the first to recite that case and just tell dom to smile and agree.

[staypositivefriend]

I wanna know Jess's current read on me, 90% for ego reasons

you are townier than i've ever seen you before. i have no idea what to make of that

i generally like your defense of me - the only thing that bothered me is how you kinda tried to have it both ways in reaction to sloonei's wallpost on me - it felt like you echo'd the sentiment of "yeah, maybe SPF is mafia" and "SPF shouldn't be pushed on" at the exact same time

but i do think that knowing that i tend to perform poorly under pressure (as evidenced by last night lol) and using that as reasoning to ask people to back off of me is a pretty towny thing for you to do in general

i can feel that there is something ~distinct~ about your approach in this game that is different from how i've seen you play any game before - and gth, i think that the fluidity of your playstyle in this game is more likely to come from esooa!town than it is esooa!scum - especially since i think esooa!scum would have a mindset that is slightly more rigid and maybe even afraid of changing things up too much

so yeah, i townlean you, with the caveat that i'm wondering if the reason you seem so towny to me is because you're playing with the conscious intent to get people to townread you

[KZA]

Falcon feels good too.

BoKnows should receive some attention.

I don't consider BK an innocent child yet, which means that he's >rand scum.

Have you seen BK as town before tho? He's been scum on all his Syndicate games so I don't get how you can say this

I have, in game... 2 or 3 of the hydra season on MU.

Oh I didn't know he played there, carry on