Magic the Gathering Mafia - Game Over - Mafia has won!

[Marmot]

@Jackofhearts2005 been largely MIA today, where you at boi

[hollowkatt]

Oh that reminds me, who did everyone give mana to last night?

myself. screw you guys ;-)

[Marmot]

Pop quiz!

What is Falcon's single scummiest post?

What is falcon's single scummiest post, you never told us.

[Marmot]

I dunno but asking me questions like that seems to work. What are you Dr. Phil?

I don't know at this point. If I live a little while I'll get around to it.

I don't super need to catch up to be positively contributing tho.

I just outed myself as town KP so I will catch a NK tonight probably.

I know town-Mac is an incredibly useful thing to have in a game. I'm not seeing that right now, but I assume that's because you're irritated and over-extended, not necessarily because you're mafia.

I assumed you weren't caught up, because Epi and Guillo just finished a long back-and-forth that seemed to resolve some things. You called them scum afterwards. I didn't get it. Anyway, I doubt either of them are mafia..


How can we get your head in the game?

Guillo is town.

Epi is probably not town.

Dunya is probably not town.

I disagree on Epi and dunya, and I at least hope you won't shoot them tonight.

[hollowkatt]

I'm pushing 40, and even when I wasn't, people called me that. This is a game on the Internet. My life will not change because of it. So no, things don't concern me. I do not mean to convey that my life is above anybody else's, but I am older and I care less about what's posted here than, say, what's posted to my bank account.

I never said I don't think about things. I think about things all the time too. I don't know why you phrased it that way. I am, if anything, deeply and consciously, a thinker.

I didn't think about Kylemii's pocketing talk because I know it's not true. Hence I have no need to waste time thinking about it.

I therefore don't have to waste time thinking about what others have say about it.

[VOTE: Epignosis] aubergine

1) I dont give a flying cow about your personal life or whatever the hell is going on with it when we are playing the game, so when i ask why things are not concerning you, im sure you understand that what i am asking is within the bubble of the game! Of course a game will not supersede our life, of course a game will not take our sleep away but that is not what i asked and im sure as hell you know that that is not what i asked. Play dumb and get dumb votes.

2) Kyle died after sheding light of suspicion on you, Ted, Marmot and HollowKatt and im trying to work out if that is why kyle is dead, so how about you cooperate eh? Out of Marmot, Ted and Hollowkatt, who do you think had more reasons to want Kyle dead?

You didn't ask. HK did. I answered HK's question.

Kylemii is never my first kill.

Out of those people you named? None of them. I don't suspect them.

On another matter, you seemed rather the ingrate about the six mana I sent you. Why was that?

That's some serious mana.

Also, "What did you think about my comment and Kyle’s comment about you feeling kind of pocketing on D1?" feels like a filler question, practically rhetorical, and I don't know what other answer was even expected. Was Epi supposed to start trying to explain his actions as non-pocketing?

It was not rethorical and you wait your turn. Epignosis just made a mistake. Never interrupt the enemy making a mistake unless you are his friend.

What mistake did I make?

You claimed to have sent me 6 mana right?
How is that possible if we got three lands and each produce only 1 mana?

There is a way.... in MTG.... but only a way prison players would know about

[MacDougall]

K

[hollowkatt]

The kicker on my role is a vig shot if anyone wants to donate mana to me. I need an extra red one and 2 of other random mana. Then I will use it to kill someone.

[hollowkatt]

Some questions:
@MacDougall
Do you find tedxtr scummy independent of interactions with other players? Are you still sheeping dunya's read on him?
Also, can you be more specific about what "kills" are in the context of your role? Is it all damaging abilities or just Pack of Wolves?

@Marmot
Why vote for Wilgy at all, if you know the claim is BS because of the rules and because of the way he is? I don't see why you wouldn't just disregard the claim entirely, it was clearly fake so I don't know how you would have expected him to clarify it for you.
Also, what do you think about Made flipping town, the EoD wagon shenanigans, and the people who voted for Made? How do you feel about tedxtr and the people voting for him today?

@Long Con
Your complaint that I don't have much content outside of tedxtr or falcon is accurate, but unfair, considering most of my posts are from d0 or the first 24h of d1. I spent a lot of time basically waiting for ted to come into the thread, and then once he started posting I felt better about him, but didn't have a ton of time to pursue my Marmot read. I do think it's natural to spend some time discussing the mechanics of the setup on early d1 though, just to ensure that everyone understands the setup in at least a general sense. You're one of my strongest town reads at the moment so I hope you can come around to seeing that I'm town as well. I'm getting the feeling that the mafia lie in the players whom are difficult to execute, so I think we're going to need to not be lazy here, and work to form strong mutual town reads where possible.

@tedxtr
I think I've explained why I felt that you were a wolf who thought that town started with fewer than three lands, but I can explain in more depth if you'd like. I'm not sure it's really worth restarting that avenue of discussion, but let me know.

@112
Are your posts toward tedxtr serious? Specifically, #1601 & #1603.

@dunya
Why specifically do you continue to town-read Marmot? How do you feel about his reads, as well as his votes on Wilgy and 112?

@hollowkatt
Do you have any scum reads aside from ted? Can you give me some potential pairings? And if ted flips town, what will you do?

@falcon45ca
I don't think it's valuable to reveal your target. Let the mafia use Lifescope if they want to know.

@Justplayingitcool
Have your reads changed at all now that Made has flipped town?

---

Some comments (mostly my own notes, no response necessary for these, self-iso is the best crossplatform notepad):
I need to ruminate on Mac's turnaround on dunya. I don't love it. My problem with it is that, if Mac was expecting a scum-dunya to think he's a prime kill target, why is it ok for town-dunya to not think that? Because clearly she didn't, if she targeted him with a gifting ability. Also, I don't think that claiming either the block or that she targeted Mac is a strong tell, or at least not one strong enough to overturn what appeared to be a lock scum read. There might be something here that could be worth exploring at a later time.

I really dislike #1422 of falcon on Epi. I don't see what falcon is getting at or how his questions could be AI. The post looks distancy. In fact, the whole exchange on that page between the two of them just feels off, like insulting each other for the sake of doing so. Do they have a vendetta or something?

#1462 dunya is sheeping Mac on ted when Mac's stated reason for voting ted is that dunya is mafia with ted. I don't get this.

Marmot #1526 looks like a fake reason to show suspicion of 112. I feel like 112's posts accusing dunya and Epi were transparently jokish / sarcastic. Also, at the time of Marmot's post, Mac had already shaded both Epi and dunya earlier in the day, so it's strange that only 112 faces this accusation.

I'm uncomfortable with hollowkatt repeatedly claiming credit for the ted wagon before he's flipped. I don't think it's alignment-indicative right now, but I'm noting this for later.

falcon townread has basically totally evaporated as of #1666. Lots and lots of questions with zero stances.

#1696 hollowkatt says she suspects both myself and tedxtr. She suspects tedxtr for the mech discussion, which I spurred. This doesn't seem like a logical or town mindset, I would expect anyone who thinks ted is scum based on the mech talk to think I'm town for bringing it up.

#1732 Guillotine voting Epi over a misunderstanding looks really awful for him. Very opportunistic vote.

kinda like you for a wolf, kinda think Epi maybe possibly could be (or that's just my take on his attitude), pairings I haven't thought of, and generally don't.
Also bolas/112 probably a wolf.

you don't have to like me wanting ted cred, but if he flips wolf gimmie
You may have brought up the initial suspicions, I pushed that the hardest and most consistently. And it's not that Ted is talking mech, it's the way he went about it. That you're glossing over that is interesting

[hollowkatt]

Urist is obvious town. Moving on.

I don't really scumread Ted. I've not read any posts of his that made me feel one way or the other. I've not been paying attention to this game. But now I'm only in this game.

I deal 5 damage to someone. I assume that kills most players at least.

This just in: Mac didn't read the OP

[hollowkatt]

for the record, I already generated my mana and gave it to myself.

[112]

also voting jack

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sorry for my poor attendance today- coming to terms with some personal stuff

[112]

[ytubehd][/ytubehd]

[112]

is it still the first 36 hours of the day?

i didn't read my role PM thoroughly and may have missed out on actions lol

[Marmot]

is it still the first 36 hours of the day?

i didn't read my role PM thoroughly and may have missed out on actions lol

Yes, you have ~6 more hours

[Marmot]

also voting jack

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sorry for my poor attendance today- coming to terms with some personal stuff

Why are you voting Jack?

[Marmot]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

[112]

also voting jack

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sorry for my poor attendance today- coming to terms with some personal stuff

Why are you voting Jack?

mostly convenience

[Marmot]

also voting jack

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sorry for my poor attendance today- coming to terms with some personal stuff

Why are you voting Jack?

mostly convenience

Convenience? Could you expand?

[Guillotine]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

And?

[Marmot]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

And?

It's an open thought, I want input. What do you think?

[112]

also voting jack

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sorry for my poor attendance today- coming to terms with some personal stuff

Why are you voting Jack?

mostly convenience

Convenience? Could you expand?

i was looking for someone to shift my vote to and jack was the first person that sprang to mind that felt like it could be a hit

and then someone else voted for him, so i figured i might be onto something

[Guillotine]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

And?

It's an open thought, I want input. What do you think?

Personally, if my scum reads are bussing someone, i'd help them giving us the win.

[Marmot]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

And?

It's an open thought, I want input. What do you think?

Personally, if my scum reads are bussing someone, i'd help them giving us the win.

So you think 112 is bussing a partner there, is that correct?

[112]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

And?

It's an open thought, I want input. What do you think?

Personally, if my scum reads are bussing someone, i'd help them giving us the win.

So you think 112 is bussing a partner there, is that correct?

preposterous.

[Marmot]

also voting jack

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

sorry for my poor attendance today- coming to terms with some personal stuff

Why are you voting Jack?

mostly convenience

Convenience? Could you expand?

i was looking for someone to shift my vote to and jack was the first person that sprang to mind that felt like it could be a hit

and then someone else voted for him, so i figured i might be onto something

Were you looking for someone to vote earlier or just now? I think Jack's had three votes for a little while now.

[MacDougall]

If Guillo and Epi are both town I retire

[Guillotine]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

And?

It's an open thought, I want input. What do you think?

Personally, if my scum reads are bussing someone, i'd help them giving us the win.

So you think 112 is bussing a partner there, is that correct?

No, i dont know what she is doing but i think that you trying to cast shade on her for voting the same player you are just because she scum reads you is reaching. We townies do that all the time. Take a look. I think Ted is scum and I think Urist is scum too, Ted is voting Urist right?

[VOTE: Urist] aubergine

[Marmot]

If Guillo and Epi are both town I retire

What if I am town with them?

[Guillotine]

If Guillo and Epi are both town I retire

I can only speak for myself. Im town and that is undeniable.

[Marmot]

I miss Kyle, nobody actively shitposts quite like he does.

[112]

If Guillo and Epi are both town I retire

I can only speak for myself. Im town and that is undeniable.

Preach it.

[tedxtr]

The kicker on my role is a vig shot if anyone wants to donate mana to me. I need an extra red one and 2 of other random mana. Then I will use it to kill someone.

just enough to punish this fool

[Enrique]

I see three people with more than one vote, and from having closely studied the first 1/3 of the game I think the three of them are terrible options. The ted wagon especially up to the point I've read has been complete bunk.

I will elaborate more later but right now I can tell you:

1) I don't trust falcon. They have an extremely chaotic energy in the first 10 or so pages (of which I can provide more detailed examples if necessary, right now it's just an observation), and then manage to accuse Kyle of creating chaos w his jokish answers. They also downplay the scum team's potential power pointing at their factional artifacts as if we were to assume that they don't have individual planeswalkers, lands, and artifacts. Then feeds into the whole "ted doesn't know we all have 3 lands" nonsense.

2) I disagree a lot with hk and I would be suspicious of them over a few issues (mishandling of Urist, Ted, and Jack, actually... the current poll leaders) BUT I think the fact that they've tried to discourage discussing mana transfers is actually a pretty good look. Mafia would want to encourage that kind of discussion to abuse PtF. hk has been firm against it and not just in a shallow disinterested way that the mafia could use to distance themselves from the project. I think hk warrants close observation but I feel relatively comfortable with them vs falcon because they've given a bigger indication of having town interests in mind.

3) Urist actually looks the towniest to me out of the whole game. They've sensibly explained their position re: a lot of mech stuff and cleared up questions that threatened to lead town to the wrong conclusions (ie. post 458 - it's confirmed that everybody has 3 lands, whatever is forming around Ted right now is a dead-end). The votes they have right now probably didn't just come out of nowhere, I'll find out about that later, but in this moment I'm not inclined to jump on that wagon at all.

[tedxtr]

ok and that big urist post is townie

maybe the mafia aren't doing anything at all

[VOTE: jpic ] aubergine

[DrWilgy]

Urist, why did you agree with Nicol Bolas that falcon wasn't a wolf? Because you agree with his posts, right? Which ones do you agree with, and why haven't those agreements manifested themselves as opinions in the thread?

lol

LC, meet urist, a man of little words but big skills.

i have actually never seen mafia urist and he hates randing mafia.

Dunya is probably town because I am still alive tbh.

Let's leave her alone shall we.

And here, I'm thinking dunya might be mafia because I'm still alive.

aww, i love this.

That was fun.

it was! i laughed till my belly hurt. you even thought of "redpeeked" cos kyle posted in "dead red" right? at first i was like wtff, then i was like lmaoooo wilgy tell me, what do you make of your experiment?

Not much. I'm very sleepy.

[DrWilgy]

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine hasn't even tried to bolt me yet for being afk. Yeet them.

[tutuu]

The 36 hour mark has passed, mana submission locked in!

[Jackofhearts2005]

Pop quiz!

What is Falcon's single scummiest post?

What is falcon's single scummiest post, you never told us.

I was hoping to cheat on the quiz.

[Long Con]

Some questions:
@MacDougall
Do you find tedxtr scummy independent of interactions with other players? Are you still sheeping dunya's read on him?
Also, can you be more specific about what "kills" are in the context of your role? Is it all damaging abilities or just Pack of Wolves?

@Marmot
Why vote for Wilgy at all, if you know the claim is BS because of the rules and because of the way he is? I don't see why you wouldn't just disregard the claim entirely, it was clearly fake so I don't know how you would have expected him to clarify it for you.
Also, what do you think about Made flipping town, the EoD wagon shenanigans, and the people who voted for Made? How do you feel about tedxtr and the people voting for him today?

@Long Con
Your complaint that I don't have much content outside of tedxtr or falcon is accurate, but unfair, considering most of my posts are from d0 or the first 24h of d1. I spent a lot of time basically waiting for ted to come into the thread, and then once he started posting I felt better about him, but didn't have a ton of time to pursue my Marmot read. I do think it's natural to spend some time discussing the mechanics of the setup on early d1 though, just to ensure that everyone understands the setup in at least a general sense. You're one of my strongest town reads at the moment so I hope you can come around to seeing that I'm town as well. I'm getting the feeling that the mafia lie in the players whom are difficult to execute, so I think we're going to need to not be lazy here, and work to form strong mutual town reads where possible.

@tedxtr
I think I've explained why I felt that you were a wolf who thought that town started with fewer than three lands, but I can explain in more depth if you'd like. I'm not sure it's really worth restarting that avenue of discussion, but let me know.

@112
Are your posts toward tedxtr serious? Specifically, #1601 & #1603.

@dunya
Why specifically do you continue to town-read Marmot? How do you feel about his reads, as well as his votes on Wilgy and 112?

@hollowkatt
Do you have any scum reads aside from ted? Can you give me some potential pairings? And if ted flips town, what will you do?

@falcon45ca
I don't think it's valuable to reveal your target. Let the mafia use Lifescope if they want to know.

@Justplayingitcool
Have your reads changed at all now that Made has flipped town?

---

Some comments (mostly my own notes, no response necessary for these, self-iso is the best crossplatform notepad):
I need to ruminate on Mac's turnaround on dunya. I don't love it. My problem with it is that, if Mac was expecting a scum-dunya to think he's a prime kill target, why is it ok for town-dunya to not think that? Because clearly she didn't, if she targeted him with a gifting ability. Also, I don't think that claiming either the block or that she targeted Mac is a strong tell, or at least not one strong enough to overturn what appeared to be a lock scum read. There might be something here that could be worth exploring at a later time.

I really dislike #1422 of falcon on Epi. I don't see what falcon is getting at or how his questions could be AI. The post looks distancy. In fact, the whole exchange on that page between the two of them just feels off, like insulting each other for the sake of doing so. Do they have a vendetta or something?

#1462 dunya is sheeping Mac on ted when Mac's stated reason for voting ted is that dunya is mafia with ted. I don't get this.

Marmot #1526 looks like a fake reason to show suspicion of 112. I feel like 112's posts accusing dunya and Epi were transparently jokish / sarcastic. Also, at the time of Marmot's post, Mac had already shaded both Epi and dunya earlier in the day, so it's strange that only 112 faces this accusation.

I'm uncomfortable with hollowkatt repeatedly claiming credit for the ted wagon before he's flipped. I don't think it's alignment-indicative right now, but I'm noting this for later.

falcon townread has basically totally evaporated as of #1666. Lots and lots of questions with zero stances.

#1696 hollowkatt says she suspects both myself and tedxtr. She suspects tedxtr for the mech discussion, which I spurred. This doesn't seem like a logical or town mindset, I would expect anyone who thinks ted is scum based on the mech talk to think I'm town for bringing it up.

#1732 Guillotine voting Epi over a misunderstanding looks really awful for him. Very opportunistic vote.

It's good to see some more involved takes from you, but I'm not sure they're all legit. Some of them, it looks like you skimmed an ISO for five seconds just to tack off a box of "yup, I interacted with that player!" For instance, in the same post, you ask Mac if he's still sheeping dunya on ted, and later state that dunya is sheeping Mac on ted. Not sure what to make of that, but it belies the idea that you were thinking cohesively about a solve. That thing about noting hollowkatt's claiming credit for ted feels like lip service to a degree - I don't see what your stance would be if ted flipped town of mafia, just sort of an on-the-fence shade at HK.

What was more important for you when you made this post - posting your real thoughts and feelings and solves, or making sure you checked all the boxes of "I interacted with everyone"?

[Urist]

kinda like you for a wolf, kinda think Epi maybe possibly could be (or that's just my take on his attitude), pairings I haven't thought of, and generally don't.
Also bolas/112 probably a wolf.

you don't have to like me wanting ted cred, but if he flips wolf gimmie
You may have brought up the initial suspicions, I pushed that the hardest and most consistently. And it's not that Ted is talking mech, it's the way he went about it. That you're glossing over that is interesting

What happens if ted flips town? How do you think your reads will change?

The reason I don't like you pre-claiming credit for the ted elimination isn't because I want credit for myself or anything. I get the feeling that ted is just town this game. What I don't like about it is that I think you may be going for a "why would she push a townie so hard" angle. I don't see why you'd be so confident about ted flipping scum.
And yeah I realize your scum read is not based on the fact he was talking mech. What I was saying is that the questions ted was reacting strangely to were mine. I don't understand how you can have a scum read on ted for his reaction to my posts without having a town read on me for eliciting those reactions.

[Urist]

ok and that big urist post is townie

maybe the mafia aren't doing anything at all

[VOTE: jpic ] aubergine

Why jpic and not Jack or Wilgy?

[Urist]

I see three people with more than one vote, and from having closely studied the first 1/3 of the game I think the three of them are terrible options. The ted wagon especially up to the point I've read has been complete bunk.

I will elaborate more later but right now I can tell you:

1) I don't trust falcon. They have an extremely chaotic energy in the first 10 or so pages (of which I can provide more detailed examples if necessary, right now it's just an observation), and then manage to accuse Kyle of creating chaos w his jokish answers. They also downplay the scum team's potential power pointing at their factional artifacts as if we were to assume that they don't have individual planeswalkers, lands, and artifacts. Then feeds into the whole "ted doesn't know we all have 3 lands" nonsense.

2) I disagree a lot with hk and I would be suspicious of them over a few issues (mishandling of Urist, Ted, and Jack, actually... the current poll leaders) BUT I think the fact that they've tried to discourage discussing mana transfers is actually a pretty good look. Mafia would want to encourage that kind of discussion to abuse PtF. hk has been firm against it and not just in a shallow disinterested way that the mafia could use to distance themselves from the project. I think hk warrants close observation but I feel relatively comfortable with them vs falcon because they've given a bigger indication of having town interests in mind.

3) Urist actually looks the towniest to me out of the whole game. They've sensibly explained their position re: a lot of mech stuff and cleared up questions that threatened to lead town to the wrong conclusions (ie. post 458 - it's confirmed that everybody has 3 lands, whatever is forming around Ted right now is a dead-end). The votes they have right now probably didn't just come out of nowhere, I'll find out about that later, but in this moment I'm not inclined to jump on that wagon at all.

When you do get around to elabourating, I'd like you to expand on your thoughts around the ted wagon (and the Made wagon when you get to that point).

[Urist]

It's good to see some more involved takes from you, but I'm not sure they're all legit. Some of them, it looks like you skimmed an ISO for five seconds just to tack off a box of "yup, I interacted with that player!" For instance, in the same post, you ask Mac if he's still sheeping dunya on ted, and later state that dunya is sheeping Mac on ted. Not sure what to make of that, but it belies the idea that you were thinking cohesively about a solve. That thing about noting hollowkatt's claiming credit for ted feels like lip service to a degree - I don't see what your stance would be if ted flipped town of mafia, just sort of an on-the-fence shade at HK.

What was more important for you when you made this post - posting your real thoughts and feelings and solves, or making sure you checked all the boxes of "I interacted with everyone"?

dunya outright said that she was sheeping Mac on ted, but Mac hadn't given any reasons for voting ted outside of "sheeping dunya" and later "dunya and ted are partners". That's why I noted it and why I think it's suspicious for dunya.
The reason for why I asked Mac about whether he had his own reasons for voting ted is wholly due to the above. I wanted to confirm that when dunya said she was sheeping Mac, that it didn't make any sense because Mac doesn't have any reasons for suspecting ted.
So yes, I am thinking cohesively. I think the part you missed is that dunya explicitly said she was sheeping Mac, that wasn't an assumption I was making.

Regarding the note on hollowkatt, I mean I did say those were for my own notes. I thought it was interesting and might be helpful later.

I'll take door number three: the most important objective for me when I was making this post was to re-engage myself with the game. I knew that if I didn't look thoroughly into a lot of people and put a bunch of feelers out, that I would be disconnected and directionless for the rest of the game day. I also wanted to make sure I was digesting and considering the content I was reading, instead of just skimming through it for the sake of being caught up.

[Urist]

Reposting these because I see they weren't answered (although I'm aware dunya and jpic haven't posted yet):

@Marmot
Why vote for Wilgy at all, if you know the claim is BS because of the rules and because of the way he is? I don't see why you wouldn't just disregard the claim entirely, it was clearly fake so I don't know how you would have expected him to clarify it for you.
Also, what do you think about Made flipping town, the EoD wagon shenanigans, and the people who voted for Made? How do you feel about tedxtr and the people voting for him today?

@112
Are your posts toward tedxtr serious? Specifically, #1601 & #1603.

@dunya
Why specifically do you continue to town-read Marmot? How do you feel about his reads, as well as his votes on Wilgy and 112?

@falcon45ca
I don't think it's valuable to reveal your target. Let the mafia use Lifescope if they want to know.

@Justplayingitcool
Have your reads changed at all now that Made has flipped town?

[hollowkatt]

I see three people with more than one vote, and from having closely studied the first 1/3 of the game I think the three of them are terrible options. The ted wagon especially up to the point I've read has been complete bunk.

I will elaborate more later but right now I can tell you:

1) I don't trust falcon. They have an extremely chaotic energy in the first 10 or so pages (of which I can provide more detailed examples if necessary, right now it's just an observation), and then manage to accuse Kyle of creating chaos w his jokish answers. They also downplay the scum team's potential power pointing at their factional artifacts as if we were to assume that they don't have individual planeswalkers, lands, and artifacts. Then feeds into the whole "ted doesn't know we all have 3 lands" nonsense.

2) I disagree a lot with hk and I would be suspicious of them over a few issues (mishandling of Urist, Ted, and Jack, actually... the current poll leaders) BUT I think the fact that they've tried to discourage discussing mana transfers is actually a pretty good look. Mafia would want to encourage that kind of discussion to abuse PtF. hk has been firm against it and not just in a shallow disinterested way that the mafia could use to distance themselves from the project. I think hk warrants close observation but I feel relatively comfortable with them vs falcon because they've given a bigger indication of having town interests in mind.

3) Urist actually looks the towniest to me out of the whole game. They've sensibly explained their position re: a lot of mech stuff and cleared up questions that threatened to lead town to the wrong conclusions (ie. post 458 - it's confirmed that everybody has 3 lands, whatever is forming around Ted right now is a dead-end). The votes they have right now probably didn't just come out of nowhere, I'll find out about that later, but in this moment I'm not inclined to jump on that wagon at all.

3 lands does not equal able to generate 3 mana. I think that's what you're missing there. If you don't understand the Ted votes I suggest reading more? Because all the explanations are there should you actually be interested in reading them.

[falcon45ca]

Reposting these because I see they weren't answered (although I'm aware dunya and jpic haven't posted yet):

@Marmot
Why vote for Wilgy at all, if you know the claim is BS because of the rules and because of the way he is? I don't see why you wouldn't just disregard the claim entirely, it was clearly fake so I don't know how you would have expected him to clarify it for you.
Also, what do you think about Made flipping town, the EoD wagon shenanigans, and the people who voted for Made? How do you feel about tedxtr and the people voting for him today?

@112
Are your posts toward tedxtr serious? Specifically, #1601 & #1603.

@dunya
Why specifically do you continue to town-read Marmot? How do you feel about his reads, as well as his votes on Wilgy and 112?

@falcon45ca
I don't think it's valuable to reveal your target. Let the mafia use Lifescope if they want to know.

@Justplayingitcool
Have your reads changed at all now that Made has flipped town?

Thats why I haven't revealed my target, I thought it best to let Mafia use up their life pts if they want to know who I hit.


I figured if enough players wanted to know I'd reveal, at least 8, so that it wasn't just Maf asking for the info.


I'm taking suggestions on my next target tho, so if anyone has any thoughts on who to hit next I'm open to suggestions.

[Urist]

Oh sorry falcon I forgot to remove that, didn't explicitly need a response from you.

I'm not going to suggest a shot outright, but I think you'd have an idea of whom I'd shoot if given the chance.

Btw, I do think that Jack is town this game. I think he's another easy vote that will result in another town flip, just like Made.

@falcon45ca which of your scumreads do you think would be the most difficult to execute today?

[hollowkatt]

kinda like you for a wolf, kinda think Epi maybe possibly could be (or that's just my take on his attitude), pairings I haven't thought of, and generally don't.
Also bolas/112 probably a wolf.

you don't have to like me wanting ted cred, but if he flips wolf gimmie
You may have brought up the initial suspicions, I pushed that the hardest and most consistently. And it's not that Ted is talking mech, it's the way he went about it. That you're glossing over that is interesting

What happens if ted flips town? How do you think your reads will change?

The reason I don't like you pre-claiming credit for the ted elimination isn't because I want credit for myself or anything. I get the feeling that ted is just town this game. What I don't like about it is that I think you may be going for a "why would she push a townie so hard" angle. I don't see why you'd be so confident about ted flipping scum.
And yeah I realize your scum read is not based on the fact he was talking mech. What I was saying is that the questions ted was reacting strangely to were mine. I don't understand how you can have a scum read on ted for his reaction to my posts without having a town read on me for eliciting those reactions.

OK, I'm not really building associatives or worlds to fit with Ted so I wouldn't say that my reads would shift all that much should he flip town. I'm not banking on chain chops of mafia here. I can find reasons independently to scum read Ted, you, and a couple other people. It's possible there's a team there. It's also possible I'm wrong. I really don't think I am though, especially not on Ted.
I've been a railroaded townie before and when that happens i dig in my heels, post my ass off, and solve things. I don't see Ted doing that here and he's been on the ropes for almost two full game days now. Instead i see deflections, half-attempts to sus other people, and generally just defending instead of attempting to show townie bona fides by solving.

It's not about the reactions Ted gave, it's about his actual words and how he approached the mana generation conversation. His conclusions don't make sense to me given what I know. I think what you're doing now is more town than what you've been doing earlier in the game, but fwiw I don't town read you off of the questions you were asking Ted that lead to the mana kerfuffle.

[Urist]

kinda like you for a wolf, kinda think Epi maybe possibly could be (or that's just my take on his attitude), pairings I haven't thought of, and generally don't.
Also bolas/112 probably a wolf.

you don't have to like me wanting ted cred, but if he flips wolf gimmie
You may have brought up the initial suspicions, I pushed that the hardest and most consistently. And it's not that Ted is talking mech, it's the way he went about it. That you're glossing over that is interesting

What happens if ted flips town? How do you think your reads will change?

The reason I don't like you pre-claiming credit for the ted elimination isn't because I want credit for myself or anything. I get the feeling that ted is just town this game. What I don't like about it is that I think you may be going for a "why would she push a townie so hard" angle. I don't see why you'd be so confident about ted flipping scum.
And yeah I realize your scum read is not based on the fact he was talking mech. What I was saying is that the questions ted was reacting strangely to were mine. I don't understand how you can have a scum read on ted for his reaction to my posts without having a town read on me for eliciting those reactions.

OK, I'm not really building associatives or worlds to fit with Ted so I wouldn't say that my reads would shift all that much should he flip town. I'm not banking on chain chops of mafia here. I can find reasons independently to scum read Ted, you, and a couple other people. It's possible there's a team there. It's also possible I'm wrong. I really don't think I am though, especially not on Ted.
I've been a railroaded townie before and when that happens i dig in my heels, post my ass off, and solve things. I don't see Ted doing that here and he's been on the ropes for almost two full game days now. Instead i see deflections, half-attempts to sus other people, and generally just defending instead of attempting to show townie bona fides by solving.

It's not about the reactions Ted gave, it's about his actual words and how he approached the mana generation conversation. His conclusions don't make sense to me given what I know. I think what you're doing now is more town than what you've been doing earlier in the game, but fwiw I don't town read you off of the questions you were asking Ted that lead to the mana kerfuffle.

Hm, alright, what you're saying makes sense and I can understand your perspective, thanks for explaining. I disagree that ted is deflecting or only defending himself - I think he's been looking into and interacting with multiple people directly today. Your accusations might have been accurate on d1, but I don't think they hold up anymore. Can you point out to me where he's been deflective / defensive today?

[falcon45ca]

I'm having a hard time reading 112. On one hand, they derpcleared themself and gave a reasonable reason for not being caught up, but on the other hand, they went for the wagon where two of their scumreads are voting: myself and Epi.

Oh the irnony...I was first on that wagon, and you & Epi (both scum reading me IIRC) joined as well, so what does that mean for your take on 112 voting the same wagon as her scum reads when you and Epi are doing the exact same thing?