Magic the Gathering Mafia - Game Over - Mafia has won!

[112]

[VOTE: 112] aubergine
Since nobody else is likely to do it.

why do you town read 112?

Mostly based on Esooa's lack of engagement past the mech discussion. I struggle to imagine scumEsooa not getting into the game.

Someone else said Esooa doesn't like to roll scum, and would have more trouble engaging or something?

I don't think anyone said that; you'd have to point that out.

[VOTE: 112] aubergine
Since nobody else is likely to do it.

why do you town read 112?

Mostly based on Esooa's lack of engagement past the mech discussion. I struggle to imagine scumEsooa not getting into the game.

have you played many games with Esooa at all? Because I have quite a few as Wolf buds, Wolf vs her Town, Town buds, and one Town HK Vs wolf Esooa and lemme tell you, her play this game matches none of those.
I would not alignment read her for activity/non-activity at all.
And content wise I'd say she's at best NULL.

I guess I wasn't fair though, I don't want to know why you town read the slot, I want to know why you town read 112 specifically.

I don't specifically town-read 112. Do you want me to go through his iso and find reasons to town read him? Because I could probably do that for anyone here.
That said, there are a couple of things he's said that I don't think he'd say as wolf. Such as offering his mana to people.

---

@112 you can't use your ability without getting two extra colourless mana is that right? If so, can you send me one colourless tonight?

i need three extra, actually

i thought i'd be able to get enough to use my night power by targeting myself in subsequent nights, but it appears that isn't the case

i'll give you a colourless for sure.

[Urist]

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy need to vote.
One of @hollowkatt or @Long Con need to change their votes from dunya.

[Epignosis]

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

[Long Con]

That Esooa factoid may be from another game; a quick search doesn't find it.

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy need to vote.
One of @hollowkatt or @Long Con need to change their votes from dunya.

Ok hold on lemme look.

[Long Con]

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy need to vote.
One of @hollowkatt or @Long Con need to change their votes from dunya.

I don't mind any of the four exposed players, where would you like to see my vote?

[Urist]

@112 I only need one, you should probably send the other two to two other townreads. Let me know when you've submitted to the mod.

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

It's optimal to cover all but two... I'm not sure why we wouldn't aim for that, it's not that difficult. Leaving more than two open does nothing but give mafia more options.

[Long Con]

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

But how many exposed is ideal? Three?

[Long Con]

@112 I only need one, you should probably send the other two to two other townreads. Let me know when you've submitted to the mod.

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

It's optimal to cover all but two... I'm not sure why we wouldn't aim for that, it's not that difficult. Leaving more than two open does nothing but give mafia more options.

What would you do if you and one other player were exposed?

[Urist]

@112 I only need one, you should probably send the other two to two other townreads. Let me know when you've submitted to the mod.

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

It's optimal to cover all but two... I'm not sure why we wouldn't aim for that, it's not that difficult. Leaving more than two open does nothing but give mafia more options.

What would you do if you and one other player were exposed?

Get executed, most likely.
In the scenario where two people are exposed I'm assuming all the other players are covering each other. Otherwise it doesn't really work.

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy need to vote.
One of @hollowkatt or @Long Con need to change their votes from dunya.

I don't mind any of the four exposed players, where would you like to see my vote?

I'd rather not tell people whom to protect today, but I'm sure you can infer my preference.

[Epignosis]

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

But how many exposed is ideal? Three?

4.5

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall who did you block n2?

Marmot.

[MacDougall]

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

But how many exposed is ideal? Three?

4.5

4.5 would guarantee a town dies. I would say ideally it would be 2 or even just 1.

[MacDougall]

What if this vote thing is actually not real but it's just a wolf town crier role and gets the top town player killed?

[Enrique]

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

What makes Jack town in your eyes?

Day 0 reasons.

JPIC is straight up scummy. Most of the game he's been confused and going with the flow, not making any effort to actually find something but rather coasting on established wagons.

Finally caught up. I have determined that Made is scum

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Kyle also incredibly wolfy for having over 100 posts and I don't remember a single one.

Why are we voting Ted?

the really annoying thing for me is gth you're town (unless ted is scum, which i don't think is the case.)
let's play a game. If i'm town, who's bad

If you're town, then I'd suspect Marmot.

The only read I agree with him on is you. I town read falcon as mentioned and I also think Urist has been slightly townie as well, so that would be an instant

There's a lot of this kind of thing. "If you're town, then I'd suspect Marmot" (or anything else in the post) is not a serious conviction, it's just scum wading through whatever shit to get by. He's been very constantly present though, and I'll even believe informed, it's not as if he's out of the loop, he's just content with the thread moving in directions that don't affect him.

Who fucking knows about Wilgy. "Town derp" is a dumb idea but there hasn't been a very strict condemnation or clearing either way.

I think Mac is town but there was a vote on him at the time I chose Jack (who I also strongly town-read (and who has greater reason to vote for me anyway...)). I would prefer not to see him finishing the day without a vote on him, but we have some time to maneuver and I doubt I'm the only one with this opinion of him. For Mac, most of all, I can't read his interactions with dunya and shifting opinions as him being scum. It could all be some bizarre distancing, but the way it played(plays) out makes perfect sense.

Gonna ask something from you too bro - pls stop calling me a "slanker", I don't like it. I plain wasn't here at the beginning; I wanted the game to start a bit later than it did but I accepted the commitment and was excited to play. I spent all of Day 2, when I finally had free time, finally reading 40 pages of shit I missed (and making this situation very clear!). I don't "slank", if I'm playing at all I will have a moderately strong presence, and I'm playing now. If you have to know now, you might see me browsing the thread sometimes during north american daytime but I'm likelier to be active at night. I would also prefer not to talk this again and instead focus on content, of which no, obviously I don't have a fuckton, but I do not regret spending time reading the whole thread over and coming in today with an informed view of the entire game.

[MacDougall]

I have reservations with Marmot as a kill choice too. I know it's like a cliche but I was going to push him and Epi as teammates today from my position as uninformed. The mafia choosing to kill him feels loaded with agenda. The only reason I can see for killing him would be if they heavily determined that he was mason or somesuch. He literally cast a death blow to a town in a split vote, as mafia unless I have plenty to gain (ie. cleared status, or actual proper fear of his role) off his death, I never kill him there.

Like occam's razor says they just knew that he was masons with Epi.

How could they have known? A good guess? My problem with that is that a guess does not overcompensate for how bad he looked off that kill. It literally only makes sense if they knew exactly that he was a mason.

How could they have known?

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

What makes Jack town in your eyes?

Day 0 reasons.

JPIC is straight up scummy. Most of the game he's been confused and going with the flow, not making any effort to actually find something but rather coasting on established wagons.

Finally caught up. I have determined that Made is scum

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Kyle also incredibly wolfy for having over 100 posts and I don't remember a single one.

Why are we voting Ted?

the really annoying thing for me is gth you're town (unless ted is scum, which i don't think is the case.)
let's play a game. If i'm town, who's bad

If you're town, then I'd suspect Marmot.

The only read I agree with him on is you. I town read falcon as mentioned and I also think Urist has been slightly townie as well, so that would be an instant

There's a lot of this kind of thing. "If you're town, then I'd suspect Marmot" (or anything else in the post) is not a serious conviction, it's just scum wading through whatever shit to get by. He's been very constantly present though, and I'll even believe informed, it's not as if he's out of the loop, he's just content with the thread moving in directions that don't affect him.

Who fucking knows about Wilgy. "Town derp" is a dumb idea but there hasn't been a very strict condemnation or clearing either way.

I think Mac is town but there was a vote on him at the time I chose Jack (who I also strongly town-read (and who has greater reason to vote for me anyway...)). I would prefer not to see him finishing the day without a vote on him, but we have some time to maneuver and I doubt I'm the only one with this opinion of him. For Mac, most of all, I can't read his interactions with dunya and shifting opinions as him being scum. It could all be some bizarre distancing, but the way it played(plays) out makes perfect sense.

Gonna ask something from you too bro - pls stop calling me a "slanker", I don't like it. I plain wasn't here at the beginning; I wanted the game to start a bit later than it did but I accepted the commitment and was excited to play. I spent all of Day 2, when I finally had free time, finally reading 40 pages of shit I missed (and making this situation very clear!). I don't "slank", if I'm playing at all I will have a moderately strong presence, and I'm playing now. If you have to know now, you might see me browsing the thread sometimes during north american daytime but I'm likelier to be active at night. I would also prefer not to talk this again and instead focus on content, of which no, obviously I don't have a fuckton, but I do not regret spending time reading the whole thread over and coming in today with an informed view of the entire game.

Slank is literally just a term to describe someone low posting. It's common mafia verbiage and means nothing else. It's not co-opted from anywhere. It doesn't mean anything offensive.

[Epignosis]

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

But how many exposed is ideal? Three?

4.5

4.5 would guarantee a town dies. I would say ideally it would be 2 or even just 1.

Both of you, stop this please.

Any two players with BTSC can give six mana to someone. That's my point. I'm not barking up a tree.

I don't care about that.

You accused me of being mafia even though I claimed to have given six mana to one person.

Why would mafia give six mana to one person?

Falcon gave the only reasonable answer, and I don't even like Falcon (as a civilian): "Epi and Guillo are lying about it and are mafia teammates."

Nobody else has provided a reasonable possibility.

So I don't care that you think any players with BTSC can give six mana to someone.

I care that you called me mafia and voted for me to die when 1) You didn't know I had BTSC, and 2) Giving six mana to another person doesn't seem like it would make sense for a mafia member to do.

Well I don't care about any of that, so have fun with it. It made less sense to me to give all your mana to someone of whom you were guessing an alignment. You keep chewing on this as long as you need to though.

Ah!

That was the scheme.

If some big nasty shit went down in the thread at Night, assuming mafia have additional artifacts and what not, we would know who had the mana to wreak such havoc.

It was our way of clearing ourselves to others while outing mafia we overpowered.

I think it was quite a genius plan if I do say so myself.

I give it a 4.5/10.

[Enrique]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

[MacDougall]

The goal is not to cover everybody.

The goal is to leave exposed those who get no love.

But how many exposed is ideal? Three?

4.5

4.5 would guarantee a town dies. I would say ideally it would be 2 or even just 1.

Both of you, stop this please.

Any two players with BTSC can give six mana to someone. That's my point. I'm not barking up a tree.

I don't care about that.

You accused me of being mafia even though I claimed to have given six mana to one person.

Why would mafia give six mana to one person?

Falcon gave the only reasonable answer, and I don't even like Falcon (as a civilian): "Epi and Guillo are lying about it and are mafia teammates."

Nobody else has provided a reasonable possibility.

So I don't care that you think any players with BTSC can give six mana to someone.

I care that you called me mafia and voted for me to die when 1) You didn't know I had BTSC, and 2) Giving six mana to another person doesn't seem like it would make sense for a mafia member to do.

Well I don't care about any of that, so have fun with it. It made less sense to me to give all your mana to someone of whom you were guessing an alignment. You keep chewing on this as long as you need to though.

Ah!

That was the scheme.

If some big nasty shit went down in the thread at Night, assuming mafia have additional artifacts and what not, we would know who had the mana to wreak such havoc.

It was our way of clearing ourselves to others while outing mafia we overpowered.

I think it was quite a genius plan if I do say so myself.

I give it a 4.5/10.

Sorry

[MacDougall]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

[Enrique]

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

What makes Jack town in your eyes?

Day 0 reasons.

JPIC is straight up scummy. Most of the game he's been confused and going with the flow, not making any effort to actually find something but rather coasting on established wagons.

Finally caught up. I have determined that Made is scum

[VOTE: Made] aubergine

Kyle also incredibly wolfy for having over 100 posts and I don't remember a single one.

Why are we voting Ted?

the really annoying thing for me is gth you're town (unless ted is scum, which i don't think is the case.)
let's play a game. If i'm town, who's bad

If you're town, then I'd suspect Marmot.

The only read I agree with him on is you. I town read falcon as mentioned and I also think Urist has been slightly townie as well, so that would be an instant

There's a lot of this kind of thing. "If you're town, then I'd suspect Marmot" (or anything else in the post) is not a serious conviction, it's just scum wading through whatever shit to get by. He's been very constantly present though, and I'll even believe informed, it's not as if he's out of the loop, he's just content with the thread moving in directions that don't affect him.

Who fucking knows about Wilgy. "Town derp" is a dumb idea but there hasn't been a very strict condemnation or clearing either way.

I think Mac is town but there was a vote on him at the time I chose Jack (who I also strongly town-read (and who has greater reason to vote for me anyway...)). I would prefer not to see him finishing the day without a vote on him, but we have some time to maneuver and I doubt I'm the only one with this opinion of him. For Mac, most of all, I can't read his interactions with dunya and shifting opinions as him being scum. It could all be some bizarre distancing, but the way it played(plays) out makes perfect sense.

Gonna ask something from you too bro - pls stop calling me a "slanker", I don't like it. I plain wasn't here at the beginning; I wanted the game to start a bit later than it did but I accepted the commitment and was excited to play. I spent all of Day 2, when I finally had free time, finally reading 40 pages of shit I missed (and making this situation very clear!). I don't "slank", if I'm playing at all I will have a moderately strong presence, and I'm playing now. If you have to know now, you might see me browsing the thread sometimes during north american daytime but I'm likelier to be active at night. I would also prefer not to talk this again and instead focus on content, of which no, obviously I don't have a fuckton, but I do not regret spending time reading the whole thread over and coming in today with an informed view of the entire game.

Slank is literally just a term to describe someone low posting. It's common mafia verbiage and means nothing else. It's not co-opted from anywhere. It doesn't mean anything offensive.

I just think it's annoying to push that when I've been open about reading the whole thread from the start in the last two days (which took a ton of time and effort). Whatever. I wasn't and won't be hiding.

[Urist]

What if this vote thing is actually not real but it's just a wolf town crier role and gets the top town player killed?

I had the same thought until tutuu made her clarification announcement regarding "no chop" lmao

[Urist]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

I doubt scum can transfer mana between themselves freely at night? So unless dunya has all of these abilities herself I'm not sure that's the reason they're here.

[Enrique]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

There's a couple things besides this that caught my attention. The first one is relatively minor, it's that the two nightkills so far have been strongly associated with her (on day 0 she calls herself+kyle+marmot "the three musketeers" and they do a whole dance). There's some decent distancing, why would she kill the two players that trust her most?

Then at the end of Day 1 there was a lot of speculation that she moved her vote from falcon to Made at the last minute to save ted (whom we know know was town). Some people linked ted with dunya but I think Guill was the only one to actually bring up falcon. It led to an interesting conversation.

What if it's Ted/Dunya/Falcon ?

Falcon was also a wagon when Dunya jumped from Ted to Made.

Why would I vote Ted over Made if that's the case?

To get towncred and say exactly this right now.

Ted was lynched and the whole thing kind of fizzled out. I don't know if Guillo has an opinion about this (or if they still have any votes left) but there's a connection there that I think should be revisited.

There's a couple more dunya/falcon interactions that stand out (the whole "you're weaving a false narrative" drama, seemed overblown, ultimately went nowhere), but tbh it's pretty minor. I'm mostly suspicious of falcon, and there's been a lot of other dunya content that I did like, but I think she's a decent shot for his teammate and the fact that she got a ton of mana on such a chaotic night is remarkable.

[hollowkatt]

so where I'm at:
Townies:
Dunya - Agree
Epi - Agree
Guillo - Agree
HK - Have doubts but okay
Falcon - Have doubts but okay

Not Sure:
Mac - Would kill
LC - Would kill
Jack - Would kill
JPIC - Would kill

Not Townies:
112 - Would kill
Urist - A puzzle
Enrique - Would kill
Wigly - Would kill

That isn't a great list.

Would kill people need to do would not kill things.

agreed.
I'm fairly comfortably killing through the not townies list. The Not Sure list I think can be sorted, eventually. Dunya would put LC into the townies bucket.
Why would you kill him?

[hollowkatt]

[VOTE: 112] aubergine
Since nobody else is likely to do it.

why do you town read 112?

Mostly based on Esooa's lack of engagement past the mech discussion. I struggle to imagine scumEsooa not getting into the game.

Someone else said Esooa doesn't like to roll scum, and would have more trouble engaging or something?

I don't think anyone said that; you'd have to point that out.

[VOTE: 112] aubergine
Since nobody else is likely to do it.

why do you town read 112?

Mostly based on Esooa's lack of engagement past the mech discussion. I struggle to imagine scumEsooa not getting into the game.

have you played many games with Esooa at all? Because I have quite a few as Wolf buds, Wolf vs her Town, Town buds, and one Town HK Vs wolf Esooa and lemme tell you, her play this game matches none of those.
I would not alignment read her for activity/non-activity at all.
And content wise I'd say she's at best NULL.

I guess I wasn't fair though, I don't want to know why you town read the slot, I want to know why you town read 112 specifically.

I don't specifically town-read 112. Do you want me to go through his iso and find reasons to town read him? Because I could probably do that for anyone here.
That said, there are a couple of things he's said that I don't think he'd say as wolf. Such as offering his mana to people.

---

@112 you can't use your ability without getting two extra colourless mana is that right? If so, can you send me one colourless tonight?

So is 112 coasting off of your read on Bolas then? Cause I kinda think the way you're approaching that slot is weird and I can't wrap my head around it.

[hollowkatt]

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy need to vote.
One of @hollowkatt or @Long Con need to change their votes from dunya.

I don't town read anyone not currently being voted for. Therefore I'm not voting for anyone not currently being voted for. Hopefully that makes sense.

[hollowkatt]

@MacDougall who did you block n2?

Marmot.

The conveniently dead guy, got it.

[Enrique]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

I doubt scum can transfer mana between themselves freely at night? So unless dunya has all of these abilities herself I'm not sure that's the reason they're here.

Well now it's vote for the person you trust.

I think that's nice. Mafia will have to vote for one another or die. That's a great magical power. Probably requires a lot of mana to execute.

Epi has since changed his opinion about the reverse lynch being a town power, but he's right that it's probably a big/expensive one and the connection makes sense. The marks could be unrelated, they could even be a town power, or it could also be the other way around (she did them but not the lynch). She also seemingly neighborized hk (not scum by itself but a part of the equation; if she won't say in the thread, hk might also want to ask if there was a kicker for her to spend all the mana on). Whatever the combination is it looks like a busy night for the mafia, also accounting for the Marmot kill.

[Epignosis]

so where I'm at:
Townies:
Dunya - Agree
Epi - Agree
Guillo - Agree
HK - Have doubts but okay
Falcon - Have doubts but okay

Not Sure:
Mac - Would kill
LC - Would kill
Jack - Would kill
JPIC - Would kill

Not Townies:
112 - Would kill
Urist - A puzzle
Enrique - Would kill
Wigly - Would kill

That isn't a great list.

Would kill people need to do would not kill things.

agreed.
I'm fairly comfortably killing through the not townies list. The Not Sure list I think can be sorted, eventually. Dunya would put LC into the townies bucket.
Why would you kill him?

Bitch tried to kill me.

[hollowkatt]

I have reservations with Marmot as a kill choice too. I know it's like a cliche but I was going to push him and Epi as teammates today from my position as uninformed. The mafia choosing to kill him feels loaded with agenda. The only reason I can see for killing him would be if they heavily determined that he was mason or somesuch. He literally cast a death blow to a town in a split vote, as mafia unless I have plenty to gain (ie. cleared status, or actual proper fear of his role) off his death, I never kill him there.

Like occam's razor says they just knew that he was masons with Epi.

How could they have known? A good guess? My problem with that is that a guess does not overcompensate for how bad he looked off that kill. It literally only makes sense if they knew exactly that he was a mason.

How could they have known?

valid points yeah. I'm going to set that to percolate for a while and see how it tastes after I wake up

[hollowkatt]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

Whatever town cred I have today I will burn shielding Dunya. I have her as lock town.

[Enrique]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

Whatever town cred I have today I will burn shielding Dunya. I have her as lock town.

Did she use her kicker last night?

[hollowkatt]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

I doubt scum can transfer mana between themselves freely at night? So unless dunya has all of these abilities herself I'm not sure that's the reason they're here.

Well now it's vote for the person you trust.

I think that's nice. Mafia will have to vote for one another or die. That's a great magical power. Probably requires a lot of mana to execute.

Epi has since changed his opinion about the reverse lynch being a town power, but he's right that it's probably a big/expensive one and the connection makes sense. The marks could be unrelated, they could even be a town power, or it could also be the other way around (she did them but not the lynch). She also seemingly neighborized hk (not scum by itself but a part of the equation; if she won't say in the thread, hk might also want to ask if there was a kicker for her to spend all the mana on). Whatever the combination is it looks like a busy night for the mafia, also accounting for the Marmot kill.

Epi is like incredibly townie though so I'm assuming that the marker is a wolf. Dunya and I are in a hood, yes. I dunno if she can kick that.

[hollowkatt]

so where I'm at:
Townies:
Dunya - Agree
Epi - Agree
Guillo - Agree
HK - Have doubts but okay
Falcon - Have doubts but okay

Not Sure:
Mac - Would kill
LC - Would kill
Jack - Would kill
JPIC - Would kill

Not Townies:
112 - Would kill
Urist - A puzzle
Enrique - Would kill
Wigly - Would kill

That isn't a great list.

Would kill people need to do would not kill things.

agreed.
I'm fairly comfortably killing through the not townies list. The Not Sure list I think can be sorted, eventually. Dunya would put LC into the townies bucket.
Why would you kill him?

Bitch tried to kill me.

[Epignosis]

I was marked while people thought I was mafia.

I therefore suspect the marker is good.

[Epignosis]

Also the marker power would be overpowered for a mafia team in my opinion.

[hollowkatt]

I don't see how sending a player a bunch of mana clears anyone. I don't understand the plan, I guess. So, for example, if I receive a bunch of mana tonight, and tomorrow Enrique says he sent it, I should lock him town and appreciate his genius plan?

....

basically, he's saying if he had sent guill 6 mana and all hell broke loose, he would have an idea that maybe it was guil who did that hell. that was the intention behind sending someone like guill all that mana. i think.

alternatively, if the person you sent all that mana to stays mum, and doesn't react, and all hell didn't break loose, i think that's what made epi town read guill. i am not there yet, or close, but i can see why i guess. mafia would know none of them sent it to each other, so 6 unaccounted mana means people trusted them. i'm still loling guil starts day 2 with 6 mana gifts and then questions epi lol

i dont even know why we are wasting time talking about this. epi is lock town by mechanics.

Interesting, did something big happen today? Did all hell break loose? Do you think a lot of potentially harmful actions might have been set in motion last night?

Dude this is a really interesting point. Dunya got 6 mana and then suddenly a lot of what appears to be neg utlity shit occurred.

Hmmm.

Whatever town cred I have today I will burn shielding Dunya. I have her as lock town.

Did she use her kicker last night?

I don't know if she did or not, she hasn't said anything in chat

[hollowkatt]

I was marked while people thought I was mafia.

I therefore suspect the marker is good.

Also the marker power would be overpowered for a mafia team in my opinion.

This is what Tutuu had to say:

Epignosis has been permanently Marked! The mark is either real or fake. If the following conditions are all met:
-Epignosis gets chopped at any point during the game
-The mark is real (and not fake)
-The person who marked Epignosis is still alive
-The person who marked Epignosis has the opposite alignment of Epignosis

So the only way they get a benefit from the Mark is if you're opposite aligned, you get chopped, they live, and the mark is real.
I can see how that would be OP for mafia to have yeah. It's basically turning LHF into a free vig shot, yeah?

Ok here me out: If the mafia have the mark action they slap it on LHF they know they can push over, they chop said mark, and then immediately vig someone they'll never kill AND is likely to be protected at night.

yeah, I'm coming to the conclusion that the mark maker has to be town because that's hella stronk for mafia to have.

[Enrique]

I was marked while people thought I was mafia.

I therefore suspect the marker is good.

Yeah I have a couple of theories but I'm wondering how much effort it's even worth it to solve if we're not gonna lynch either of you (and both should have the votes to survive).

[Enrique]

What we need is a list of trustworthy individuals. People who under no circumstances should be killed today.

If you nominate someone, you need to be able to show why you believe that person is a civilian.

Than all that's required is we coordinate votes accordingly and make mafia shoot among the elimination pool.

I think the optimal play is to leave just one person with 0 votes (and to have that person not covering anyone else), so we should try to do that, if possible. That way, if the mafia want to tie the vote to save the person at 0, they have to out one of their own.

I think this is a really bad idea. We're already unlikely to get scum this way (especially if they're voting for each other), this just makes sure that we end up with nothing... the one played we leave at 0 would have to be 100% lock scum. Leaving 2-3 players at 0 even if we end up lynching a townie at least gives us something about how they're deciding ties, who they're scrambling to save, and just how they're manipulating the poll in general. We're never gonna get a consensus of who should be the one person everyone thinks should go.

We should still fuck around with it and find the best way to catch scum from this poll but I don't think your suggestion is how. It sounds likelier that we'd just fuck somebody over for no gain that way.

[Epignosis]

What we need is a list of trustworthy individuals. People who under no circumstances should be killed today.

If you nominate someone, you need to be able to show why you believe that person is a civilian.

Than all that's required is we coordinate votes accordingly and make mafia shoot among the elimination pool.

I think the optimal play is to leave just one person with 0 votes (and to have that person not covering anyone else), so we should try to do that, if possible. That way, if the mafia want to tie the vote to save the person at 0, they have to out one of their own.

I think this is a really bad idea. We're already unlikely to get scum this way (especially if they're voting for each other), this just makes sure that we end up with nothing... the one played we leave at 0 would have to be 100% lock scum. Leaving 2-3 players at 0 even if we end up lynching a townie at least gives us something about how they're deciding ties, who they're scrambling to save, and just how they're manipulating the poll in general. We're never gonna get a consensus of who should be the one person everyone thinks should go.

We should still fuck around with it and find the best way to catch scum from this poll but I don't think your suggestion is how. It sounds likelier that we'd just fuck somebody over for no gain that way.

I'm pretty sure the correct select is to vote "No Chop" and everybody wins.

[hollowkatt]

What we need is a list of trustworthy individuals. People who under no circumstances should be killed today.

If you nominate someone, you need to be able to show why you believe that person is a civilian.

Than all that's required is we coordinate votes accordingly and make mafia shoot among the elimination pool.

I think the optimal play is to leave just one person with 0 votes (and to have that person not covering anyone else), so we should try to do that, if possible. That way, if the mafia want to tie the vote to save the person at 0, they have to out one of their own.

I think this is a really bad idea. We're already unlikely to get scum this way (especially if they're voting for each other), this just makes sure that we end up with nothing... the one played we leave at 0 would have to be 100% lock scum. Leaving 2-3 players at 0 even if we end up lynching a townie at least gives us something about how they're deciding ties, who they're scrambling to save, and just how they're manipulating the poll in general. We're never gonna get a consensus of who should be the one person everyone thinks should go.

We should still fuck around with it and find the best way to catch scum from this poll but I don't think your suggestion is how. It sounds likelier that we'd just fuck somebody over for no gain that way.

ugh, mafia control the rand too. Otherwise I'd say everyone pile onto the two/three most town read people and let the chop go where it may. If wolves want to save they'll have to move around.

[Enrique]

What we need is a list of trustworthy individuals. People who under no circumstances should be killed today.

If you nominate someone, you need to be able to show why you believe that person is a civilian.

Than all that's required is we coordinate votes accordingly and make mafia shoot among the elimination pool.

I think the optimal play is to leave just one person with 0 votes (and to have that person not covering anyone else), so we should try to do that, if possible. That way, if the mafia want to tie the vote to save the person at 0, they have to out one of their own.

I think this is a really bad idea. We're already unlikely to get scum this way (especially if they're voting for each other), this just makes sure that we end up with nothing... the one played we leave at 0 would have to be 100% lock scum. Leaving 2-3 players at 0 even if we end up lynching a townie at least gives us something about how they're deciding ties, who they're scrambling to save, and just how they're manipulating the poll in general. We're never gonna get a consensus of who should be the one person everyone thinks should go.

We should still fuck around with it and find the best way to catch scum from this poll but I don't think your suggestion is how. It sounds likelier that we'd just fuck somebody over for no gain that way.

I'm pretty sure the correct select is to vote "No Chop" and everybody wins.

If the host hadn't told us that No Chop didn't work today I would even consider it. There's basically no way that a townie doesn't die today.

[hollowkatt]

What we need is a list of trustworthy individuals. People who under no circumstances should be killed today.

If you nominate someone, you need to be able to show why you believe that person is a civilian.

Than all that's required is we coordinate votes accordingly and make mafia shoot among the elimination pool.

I think the optimal play is to leave just one person with 0 votes (and to have that person not covering anyone else), so we should try to do that, if possible. That way, if the mafia want to tie the vote to save the person at 0, they have to out one of their own.

I think this is a really bad idea. We're already unlikely to get scum this way (especially if they're voting for each other), this just makes sure that we end up with nothing... the one played we leave at 0 would have to be 100% lock scum. Leaving 2-3 players at 0 even if we end up lynching a townie at least gives us something about how they're deciding ties, who they're scrambling to save, and just how they're manipulating the poll in general. We're never gonna get a consensus of who should be the one person everyone thinks should go.

We should still fuck around with it and find the best way to catch scum from this poll but I don't think your suggestion is how. It sounds likelier that we'd just fuck somebody over for no gain that way.

I'm pretty sure the correct select is to vote "No Chop" and everybody wins.

If the host hadn't told us that No Chop didn't work today I would even consider it. There's basically no way that a townie doesn't die today.

So is the play then to just single out the most wolfy person we can find and nobody votes them? If we're right someone will have to move to save and therefore out, if we're wrong we've eliminated someone that was a likely chop anyways.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall who did you block n2?

Marmot.

The conveniently dead guy, got it.

Seriously?

[MacDougall]

Thats a very out of character opportunistic little snipe.

[MacDougall]

Also level 1 as fuck.

[Epignosis]

Thats a very out of character opportunistic little snipe.

Who cares? Is HK mafia or not?

[hollowkatt]

Thats a very out of character opportunistic little snipe.

We haven't played nearly enough for you to know whether or not that's out of character, but it's not. I like things like that. Your reaction is good btw