Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[Long Con]

But can we not tie it with Jack if he's confirmed Arthur Pendragon? I guess this is probably confirming he is that role as well, right?

Jack is not confirmed, and I think he is in most people's PoE. Unfortunately, this strategy can't really confirm him (it can give some evidence that he is probably town, but can't mech clear him), but it either confirms you or outs Jack if you are town, and is guaranteed to kill a wolf if you are wolf.

If I die, it will confirm him as a wolf. That's good enough for me. If he's telling the truth, he dies and is confirmed. Barring outside influence, this 100% will confirm Jack.

[Long Con]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine to show my support for the plan with no sneaky business.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I plan on putting in some work but if like day would end now with LC going over, we should tie myself and LC (self preserve votes included) so that if both players are town, we can resolve both players. There’s literally no downside as LC will always be yeeted if he’s scum and the votes are tied.

I definitely support this plan. This ensures that we either

1. flip a wolf,
2. flip Town!LC, and can immediately conclude that Jack is a wolf, or
3. flip Town!Jack and can immediately conclude that LC is also town.

I think my role (and perhaps TSP if they are Mayor Ascorti, but their vote manipulation cannot mess us up here) is the only one with vote manipulation left, and I promise not to use it, so this plan should be solid.

If we all agree, we should divide up into two groups of 4, and anyone going off-plan should be treated as outed scum.

Your option 2 isn’t how my role works.

If LC and I are both town and tied on the poll, my role will do nothing and the host will flip a coin. If I die, it proves there was a coin flip and thus, LC is town. If LC dies (and flips town), it doesn’t prove anything because my power doing nothing because we’re the same alignment and my power doing nothing because I’m a lying wolf look identical.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Unless you’re just saying “I don’t believe it’s in the numbers for LC and Jack to both be town” in which case, sure. I’ll let you know if I agree later. :wowee:

[MartinGG99]

I'm 100% for the "lets confirm one of Jack or LC as town by tying them at vote" plan.

It may be a bit confusing to understand at first, but basically:

1) the only way LC dies as a town is if Jack is a wolf.
2) the only way LC dies as a wolf is if Jack is the role he says he is, which is a town role.
3) the only way Jack dies is if he's a wolf or LC is town.

This is purely due to the fact of how Jack's role works protectively for towns but proactively against wolves for vote mechanics.

Unless someone tells me that they role-blocked Jack last night or the wolf-team is exactly Jack + LC (when its looking like there may only be on left), this plan is completely fool-proof and helps us on our solving as we wont have to consider the other for a deletion.

[MartinGG99]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

For the plan.

[Seanzie]

I plan on putting in some work but if like day would end now with LC going over, we should tie myself and LC (self preserve votes included) so that if both players are town, we can resolve both players. There’s literally no downside as LC will always be yeeted if he’s scum and the votes are tied.

I definitely support this plan. This ensures that we either

1. flip a wolf,
2. flip Town!LC, and can immediately conclude that Jack is a wolf, or
3. flip Town!Jack and can immediately conclude that LC is also town.

I think my role (and perhaps TSP if they are Mayor Ascorti, but their vote manipulation cannot mess us up here) is the only one with vote manipulation left, and I promise not to use it, so this plan should be solid.

If we all agree, we should divide up into two groups of 4, and anyone going off-plan should be treated as outed scum.

Your option 2 isn’t how my role works.

If LC and I are both town and tied on the poll, my role will do nothing and the host will flip a coin. If I die, it proves there was a coin flip and thus, LC is town. If LC dies (and flips town), it doesn’t prove anything because my power doing nothing because we’re the same alignment and my power doing nothing because I’m a lying wolf look identical.

You are a 3-shot grenadier. Three times during the game during any separate night phases, you may hurl the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch at a player. If they are aligned with an enemy faction, they will have one secret vote added to their names in the following day's elimination poll. If they are not aligned with an enemy faction, they will have one vote secretly removed from their name in the following day's poll.

If the following 3 things happens:

1. the poll is tied between you and LC,
2. LC is town, and
3. you indeed shot LC last night,

then LC will have one vote removed, and thus you are guaranteed to flip in this case. As such, if LC flips town, that is conclusive evidence that you did not shoot LC last night, and as such I will assume you are a wolf.

[Seanzie]

I'm 100% for the "lets confirm one of Jack or LC as town by tying them at vote" plan.

It may be a bit confusing to understand at first, but basically:

1) the only way LC dies as a town is if Jack is a wolf.
2) the only way LC dies as a wolf is if Jack is the role he says he is, which is a town role.
3) the only way Jack dies is if he's a wolf or LC is town.

This is purely due to the fact of how Jack's role works protectively for towns but proactively against wolves for vote mechanics.

Unless someone tells me that they role-blocked Jack last night or the wolf-team is exactly Jack + LC (when its looking like there may only be on left), this plan is completely fool-proof and helps us on our solving as we wont have to consider the other for a deletion.

I don't agree with 2 on a mech level, but the point is moot. If you are right that there is only one wolf left, then LC flipping wolf ends the game, and if there are multiple wolves left, LC flipping wolf and the game not ending tells us there is another wolf, in which case we can re-evaluate the possibility of w/w in LC/Jack tomorrow with the new info we get.

[Long Con]

Does Jack not fully understand his purported role?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Does Jack not fully understand his purported role?

yeah sorta think he didn't read it but given a recent result...

[Long Con]

Does Jack not fully understand his purported role?

yeah sorta think he didn't read it but given a recent result...

Did we already do a tie that was grenaded? What recent result do you mean?

[TonyStarkPrime]

recent result = jack not realizing he was a cop in the game of champions

[TonyStarkPrime]

But yeah @Jackofhearts2005 if your target is town you remove a vote from them

[Seanzie]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

[Jackofhearts2005]

But yeah @Jackofhearts2005 if your target is town you remove a vote from them

I gotta start reading shit that hosts send me.

[TonyStarkPrime]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

urist is the most confirmed town person who hasn't shot a wolf

[Jackofhearts2005]

Role: You are a 3-shot grenadier. Three times during the game during any separate night phases, you may hurl the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch at a player. If they are aligned with an enemy faction, they will have one secret vote added to their names in the following day's elimination poll. If they are not aligned with an enemy faction, they will have one vote secretly removed from their name in the following day's poll.


Cool. I add one vote to whoever I target.

Somebody: Jack, that's not how your role works.


Right, right. I add one vote to whoever I target if they're a wolf. Sorry.

Other people: *Facepalm*


Me: Oh. Huh. Guess that works even better.

[Seanzie]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

urist is the most confirmed town person who hasn't shot a wolf

Who would you vote for then? If it isn't Urist, I would vote you. Marmot is also in my outer-PoE, but I really have a hard time thinking that Hubologists need to kill like 4 people to win, and only had 1 Hubo.

Urist is probably telling the truth about blocking the Epi shot, but if I was a wolf, and had my shot blocked in a way I didn't understand, I would claim a protection if my fakeclaim had protection to win townpoints. Not saying that is what happened (and it seems pretty unlikely since the only way I can think they may have been blocked would be because they shot BP Alison, but that doesn't jive well with Chop not guessing Alison was slaver), but it is a reasonable strategy that wolf!Urist could have used.

Martin is pretty darn clear for outing Chop and Alison and Spriyo shot Grogu. After clearing those two, removing LC, Jack, Marmot and myself, that leaves Urist and you.

[TonyStarkPrime]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

urist is the most confirmed town person who hasn't shot a wolf

Who would you vote for then? If it isn't Urist, I would vote you. Marmot is also in my outer-PoE, but I really have a hard time thinking that Hubologists need to kill like 4 people to win, and only had 1 Hubo.

Urist is probably telling the truth about blocking the Epi shot, but if I was a wolf, and had my shot blocked in a way I didn't understand, I would claim a protection if my fakeclaim had protection to win townpoints. Not saying that is what happened (and it seems pretty unlikely since the only way I can think they may have been blocked would be because they shot BP Alison, but that doesn't jive well with Chop not guessing Alison was slaver), but it is a reasonable strategy that wolf!Urist could have used.

Martin is pretty darn clear for outing Chop and Alison and Spriyo shot Grogu. After clearing those two, removing LC, Jack, Marmot and myself, that leaves Urist and you.

from the perspective of an impartial spectator it probably goes

Sprityo
Urist
----
Me/Martin (i'd say me over martin but I'm biased)
----
Marmot
You
----
LC
Jack

[TonyStarkPrime]

like yes if you remove the POE from the POE you're left with me and urist and martin but this is rather obvious

[Seanzie]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

urist is the most confirmed town person who hasn't shot a wolf

Who would you vote for then? If it isn't Urist, I would vote you. Marmot is also in my outer-PoE, but I really have a hard time thinking that Hubologists need to kill like 4 people to win, and only had 1 Hubo.

Urist is probably telling the truth about blocking the Epi shot, but if I was a wolf, and had my shot blocked in a way I didn't understand, I would claim a protection if my fakeclaim had protection to win townpoints. Not saying that is what happened (and it seems pretty unlikely since the only way I can think they may have been blocked would be because they shot BP Alison, but that doesn't jive well with Chop not guessing Alison was slaver), but it is a reasonable strategy that wolf!Urist could have used.

Martin is pretty darn clear for outing Chop and Alison and Spriyo shot Grogu. After clearing those two, removing LC, Jack, Marmot and myself, that leaves Urist and you.

from the perspective of an impartial spectator it probably goes

Sprityo
Urist
----
Me/Martin (i'd say me over martin but I'm biased)
----
Marmot
You
----
LC
Jack

Why are you so widely townread btw? I still haven't really gotten an explanation for that.

[sprityo]

i second the above

[sprityo]

my poe is LC/Jack/TSP

[TonyStarkPrime]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

urist is the most confirmed town person who hasn't shot a wolf

Who would you vote for then? If it isn't Urist, I would vote you. Marmot is also in my outer-PoE, but I really have a hard time thinking that Hubologists need to kill like 4 people to win, and only had 1 Hubo.

Urist is probably telling the truth about blocking the Epi shot, but if I was a wolf, and had my shot blocked in a way I didn't understand, I would claim a protection if my fakeclaim had protection to win townpoints. Not saying that is what happened (and it seems pretty unlikely since the only way I can think they may have been blocked would be because they shot BP Alison, but that doesn't jive well with Chop not guessing Alison was slaver), but it is a reasonable strategy that wolf!Urist could have used.

Martin is pretty darn clear for outing Chop and Alison and Spriyo shot Grogu. After clearing those two, removing LC, Jack, Marmot and myself, that leaves Urist and you.

from the perspective of an impartial spectator it probably goes

Sprityo
Urist
----
Me/Martin (i'd say me over martin but I'm biased)
----
Marmot
You
----
LC
Jack

Why are you so widely townread btw? I still haven't really gotten an explanation for that.

The short answer is that I'm very very town.

[Seanzie]

We also should probably collectively agree on Jack's target tonight in case LC flips wolf today and the game doesn't end. I vote Urist, unless something spicy happens between TSP and Marmot today.

urist is the most confirmed town person who hasn't shot a wolf

Who would you vote for then? If it isn't Urist, I would vote you. Marmot is also in my outer-PoE, but I really have a hard time thinking that Hubologists need to kill like 4 people to win, and only had 1 Hubo.

Urist is probably telling the truth about blocking the Epi shot, but if I was a wolf, and had my shot blocked in a way I didn't understand, I would claim a protection if my fakeclaim had protection to win townpoints. Not saying that is what happened (and it seems pretty unlikely since the only way I can think they may have been blocked would be because they shot BP Alison, but that doesn't jive well with Chop not guessing Alison was slaver), but it is a reasonable strategy that wolf!Urist could have used.

Martin is pretty darn clear for outing Chop and Alison and Spriyo shot Grogu. After clearing those two, removing LC, Jack, Marmot and myself, that leaves Urist and you.

from the perspective of an impartial spectator it probably goes

Sprityo
Urist
----
Me/Martin (i'd say me over martin but I'm biased)
----
Marmot
You
----
LC
Jack

Why are you so widely townread btw? I still haven't really gotten an explanation for that.

The short answer is that I'm very very town.

Unfortunately that does very little for me. Hopefully someone else can explain.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I also think that martin's answered this question when you've asked before but I certainly can't answer it for myself so idk

[Long Con]

I also think that martin's answered this question when you've asked before but I certainly can't answer it for myself so idk

Well, I'm about to be confirmed Town and then I expect an apology for you saying I was some sort of wolf who was "laying it on thick", actually that's just regular Long Con sucka!

[Seanzie]

I also think that martin's answered this question when you've asked before but I certainly can't answer it for myself so idk

I just checked his ISO and couldn't find anything. He did propose an ordered PoE something like

LC/Jack (dont remember the order here) < Marmot < TSP,

But I think that was before you claimed to also be Redding, so I wouldn't be surprised if I end up somewhere in there as well.

I'm still definitely going to put you below Marmot in any ordered PoE since Redding having 2, but only needing to kill one non-enclave to win just really makes no sense if Hubologists have 1 and need to kill like 4 non-enclaves to win.

[MartinGG99]

I would rather not have to explain the posts and the contexts of the posts that I found towny for TSP.

TSP is over 1,000 posts. It would take me awhile, even though I would know where to look @_@

IIRC Day 4 had a decent amount of focus on him and it was like the last time I suspected him.

I tried using the search thingy to see if I could get a day 4 ISO (based on post titles and authorship) by TSP, it didn't work out too well:

The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: day 4.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards.

[MartinGG99]

I think one of the things that stood out to me is that he kept using VCA like he actually believed in it or something. Kept looking at it and bringing it up.

I can't remember the full details tbh anymore, but basically I had an I-wont-tinfoil-TSP-anymore policy

[MartinGG99]

Reason being is that he was among my higher confidence reads and while I could tinfoil him a wolf he would have to be a very good one in order for that to be so.

[Urist]

Not convinced that jack / lc isn't w/w

[Urist]

Tsp, urist, martin & jack on long con
Everyone else on jack tyvm

[Jackofhearts2005]

Not convinced that jack / lc isn't w/w

Yeh. Our master plan is to surrender.

[Urist]

Not convinced that jack / lc isn't w/w

Yeh. Our master plan is to surrender.

Is there a reason you aren't voting for lc orr

[Jackofhearts2005]

Not convinced that jack / lc isn't w/w

Yeh. Our master plan is to surrender.

Is there a reason you aren't voting for lc orr

bout 24 hours left in the day.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Tsp, urist, martin & jack on long con
Everyone else on jack tyvm

[VOTE: long con] aubergine

[Seanzie]

Tsp, urist, martin & jack on long con
Everyone else on jack tyvm

Since Martin and I are already on the opposite wagon of what you propose here, I'mma just stay where I'm at unless I see him move. @MartinGG99 Please @ me if you move.

[Urist]

Tsp, urist, martin & jack on long con
Everyone else on jack tyvm

Since Martin and I are already on the opposite wagon of what you propose here, I'mma just stay where I'm at unless I see him move. @MartinGG99 Please @ me if you move.

yeah that might have something to do with why i deliberately suggested the opposite

[Seanzie]

Tsp, urist, martin & jack on long con
Everyone else on jack tyvm

Since Martin and I are already on the opposite wagon of what you propose here, I'mma just stay where I'm at unless I see him move. @MartinGG99 Please @ me if you move.

yeah that might have something to do with why i deliberately suggested the opposite

I'm happy to cooperate as long as we tie it between them. Once I see Martin move, I will move to make things equal.

[TonyStarkPrime]

speaking of the vote counts, I told you they implicated Grogu smh

[Seanzie]

@Jackofhearts2005 if LC flips wolf, who are you thinking about shooting tonight?

[Marmot]

So either TSP is Doc Johnson or a liar, because I got a multiple check on him.

Sorry, not gonna be around much today, but that's all I've got to add if he's claiming Redding.

[Marmot]

I'm on a roadtrip atm, so will sheep someone else's vote, just tell me where to go.

[Marmot]

In case anyone was wondering, I'm visiting my cute marmot brethren in the mountains

[Seanzie]

So either TSP is Doc Johnson or a liar, because I got a multiple check on him.

Sorry, not gonna be around much today, but that's all I've got to add if he's claiming Redding.

Could you list out all the night actions you've taken and the results you've gotten?

[Marmot]

N2 - watch Chop - nothing
N3 - cop KZA
N4 - watch Alison - Epi visit
N5 - cop TSP - multiple

[Seanzie]

I'm on a roadtrip atm, so will sheep someone else's vote, just tell me where to go.

Vote Jack.

[Marmot]

I'm on a roadtrip atm, so will sheep someone else's vote, just tell me where to go.

Vote Jack.

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

Thanks

[Seanzie]

I'm on a roadtrip atm, so will sheep someone else's vote, just tell me where to go.

Vote Jack.

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

Thanks

Could you still do the other thing and list out your night actions theretoforth?