Fallout 2: A Post-Nuclear Mafia Game [AMERICA RISES]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Night 8 has ended.

sprityo has been killed. He was:

Spoiler: show

Joshua of the Brotherhood of Steel

Day 9 is underway. You have 48 hours* to place your votes.

*pending possibility of shortening to 24

[Seanzie]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[Urist]

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

[MartinGG99]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[insert sassy comment along the lines of "you see, this is why I vote my scum-reads]

[TonyStarkPrime]

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

[Urist]

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

[insert sassy comment along the lines of "you see, this is why I vote my scum-reads]

It's pretty frustrating bc i was expecting something like that to happen & was prepared to change my vote at dl.
But then i had to step away at like 6:58 to do parent stuff. Pretty lame & i should have just unvoted before eod.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wait why is everyone voting for me?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Is this because I self preserved? Townies are supposed to self preserve. What are you, noobs?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Maybe it’s just Jack.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: No yeet] aubergine unless anybody has any info

[Seanzie]

@TonyStarkPrime, who have you given inventions to?

[Seanzie]

I'm kind of thinking that Jack would have just let himself die if he was the only scum left, so we might want to spend some time today scumhunting.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We're sticking with a 48 hour day phase.

[MartinGG99]

I'm kind of thinking that Jack would have just let himself die if he was the only scum left, so we might want to spend some time today scumhunting.

Okay fine

I've been busy as of late but I have some time to do that now

[MartinGG99]

Basically after we chop jack, and if there's more after that, we go to a F4 MYLO.

Now idk about you guys but we can force the enclave to make it F3 LYLO (thus having the highest chance to hit scum) just by skipping the day after today

the only problem with that for me is that I think in 100% of those situations I die tonight or the night before F3 unless I'm a wolf at F3 or someone is oddly trying to make that leap of an argument via WIFOM'ed kills

[MartinGG99]

hard claim green team I think I am town I guess

i don't think it's really up for debate what he was claiming

Yeah, but this is the correct green color used for this game: #40FF40. Grogu used this one: #40BF40.

should I call this non-w/w for Marmot

I don't think wolf buddies would look into this and mention it later at D2 instead of on D1 or something

[MartinGG99]

(Obviously I don't think "just one thing" is going to cut it with the current living player list so I'm looking into ISO's more in the early game)

[MartinGG99]

Alison, ChopChop, DaughterOfOmega, Grogu are all being given passes due to role-related stuff.

Imagine giving passes to only non-towns for role-related stuff.

Technically Enclave likely didn't know Alison was Slaver but still

[MartinGG99]

Not sure how I feel on Jack.
Not really providing stuff when he should be.
Lacking a bit.

@Jackofhearts2005
Name your top 2 town and why you TR them.

i'm ok with bo or jack being yeeted but i don't think they're particularly likely to hit enclave.

peopleseyebrow.gif

Those statements seem to contradict. Do you think we're likely members some lesser scum group or what?

How does this contradict though?
It just means he would be willing to vote you he’s just not overly confident your groupscum.
Is he suppose to vote an imaginary SR instead?

Good talk, Urist.

Don’t like this.
He thinks he’s in the right zone here.

Ima like NullScum Jack.

Since he’s a competing wagon, I’ll join it.

I don't like this progression. The first post is fine, but I think ChopChop is looking for a reason to join the Jack wagon and it isn't a good one.

That’s exactly the impression I got and I wanted to make sure I wasn’t just no u tunneling.

[VOTE: ChopChop] aubergine

@c4e5g3d5

This suggests btw that Jack and the scum team may have considered at one point to bus Chop on D1

Dunno if it was just them two though

[MartinGG99]

The fact that he's quoting Marmot

Even though he just had this interaction (below) is gth kinda a good look

Not sure how I feel on Jack.
Not really providing stuff when he should be.
Lacking a bit.

@Jackofhearts2005
Name your top 2 town and why you TR them.

SPF for sure. Just feels obviously town in the same way they've felt obviously town when I've played with town SPF before. I don't think I've seen scum SPF before so I could just be wrong but for now, she's at the top of my list.

Falcon is probably my second top town read. Same issue as with SPF, me not knowing his scumgame, but he feels like he feels as a townie, aggressive in a good way.

i'm ok with bo or jack being yeeted but i don't think they're particularly likely to hit enclave.

peopleseyebrow.gif

Those statements seem to contradict. Do you think we're likely members some lesser scum group or what?

How does this contradict though?
It just means he would be willing to vote you he’s just not overly confident your groupscum.
Is he suppose to vote an imaginary SR instead?

He also said he didn't know or care what alignment Bo and I are.

For the record, I don't have a strong opinion about Urist's alignment and the "this seems to contradict" should be interpreted as "can you elaborate?" not "this is a scummy thing to say."

Good talk, Urist.

Don’t like this.
He thinks he’s in the right zone here.

That's a joke. I asked Urist a question and he left without answering.

Yeah but you act as if it made you on a higher scale.
Also, your reads are like? Basic? If that makes sense.
Like “I TR them because when I played with them they played like this but IDK if they can do that as scum”
Pretty basic if you ask me.
.......

Why does that make me a wolf tho?

[MartinGG99]

Because likely if you're going to quote something as evidence why a buddy is scum

why not quote a town; if you're going to quote a scum buddy bussing a scum-buddy and just sheeping it I would imagine that in most circumstances it would just be better to find your own way there to pushing/bussing them

[MartinGG99]

For the credit.

[MartinGG99]

hot take

Chop Chop & Jack are tvt

....................

Note to self: W-v-W can look dumb as well


(Btw we need a facepalm smilie or something; my homesite uses this)

[MartinGG99]

I probably should've read the vs interactions there better, but my hindsight may be influencing me a bit.

Hopefully I can improve in reading tvt's in the future

[MartinGG99]

Btw, my daughter was very distressed by Poison’s avatar.

Terrible read idea that may be somewhat good but also somewhat just terrible:

Jack would have said this in scum chat if Poison/Syn/Seanzie was in there

[MartinGG99]

@Jackofhearts2005 start here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2055&p=736276#p736276

I don’t see anything in here that says you can’t be teammates.

But I don’t think scum LC does that performance and then turns around and shit I’m at 1% battery just a sec

It felt real to me.

Super close call. Phone shut down right afterwards.

Anyway, as I was saying, I don’t see anything in here that says you can’t be teammates.

But I don’t think scum LC does that performance and then turns around and go "look how good my theatre is" and I don't think other wolf team LC starts D2 like "look how I'm spewed as not the other wolf faction."

So basically we are town reading LC?

Who's "we" and why are you part of it?

Well he responded to Jack’s post so I think Jack!Scum TMI’s Poison!Scum.

Lol is that a real read tho @ChopChop?

I mean if your scum then yeah.
If your not then it’s a pointless read.

I mean like...you think Poison responded to her wolf partner in thread like “Do we townread LC?”

“Yeah, Poison. Cause we’re wolves so we know LC isn’t one of us.” :wowee:

Honestly these two things looks like Chop Chop was trying to force an association read in order to scum-read Poison; nothing of it really relies on Poison at all and I feel if it were !scum Poison/Syn/Seanzie there would be more beef to the content that Chop is throwing here

As well as Jack maybe not just laughing the suggestion off.

[MartinGG99]

Well I mean technically it relies on poison but its really focused on the singular interaction rather than anything else really

[MartinGG99]

Also if @anyone-else is interested in scum-hunting I suggest going with a clean mindset or readslist, if not now then at F4/F3, and just looking at the known wolves and then just the ISO's of the people alive so far

[MartinGG99]

Alright I gotta do a bunch of work and also Danganronpa but I was thinking about the game and before I forget this stuff, I'm gonna jot it down.


Chopchop - Note passer. BoS or wolf. Still hasn't said why he targeted Daisy. Mixed feelings.
Daisy - Got a notepass. Townie af for the way she handled it.
Alison - Fingered as slaver by Falcon, who didn't need to kill Slaver's so she's probably just the Eddie the one shot vig or whatever.
Dom - Town vibes off emotion.
LC - Mindmeld on Dom
Epi - Obviously a robot. Town? Idk. Seems like some shit Epi wouldn't bother with unless the host made him but I haven't checked the roles list for this either.
Grogu - Oh, is he in this game?
Mac - Oh, is he in this game too?
Marmot - ... I'm multitabling with Marmot. Has he said things I've agreed with here that make me feel like he's town?
Martin - Idk
Nanook - Counterclaimed a wolf or something. Just town unless there was a massive brain wolf bus.
Poison - Felt they were kinda townie? Was that this game?
Kyle - Idk. Feels like normal Kyle? Maybe? Might be thinking of a different game. Sorry.
Tony - People have been saying they're sure he's town but idk why.
Urist - Feels somewhat suspicious but that may just be his personality. Love the avatar.

This read list sucks. Never playing three games at once ever again.

The tony read is strange out of the colors for it. Especially since Tony has been heavily pushing a player Jack knows to be scum for a long time. Like, I have no clue why he says "but idk why" here

[MartinGG99]

Especially since Jack + Chop seem to be making sure to interact occasionally every day phase to theater out one's reads on the other and etc.

[MartinGG99]

Here's a list of players who have done enough townie things to make me not want to vote them today

Alison - she is presumed Slaver or New Reno
ChopChop - unrelenting attitude, confirmed ability (even though alignment isn't), handled Omega well
Jackofhearts2005 - flashes of contribution, seemed relaxed when Omega was outed,
Long Con - There are things I don't like, but I think his contributions around Made being yeeted look alright
MacDougall - before today, lazy town, today I feel better about him
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - CC'd Omega, his takes are reasonable, and I think a bit outside of his scumrange
Urist - buried Omega


Players I'm indifferent on

Dom
Grogu
TonyStarkPrime


That leaves the following list of people that I'd vote for today unless another good reason for someone else arises:

Epignosis
MartinGG99
Poison
Kylemii
Spacedaisy

What did Mac do today to change your mind?

I agree with the rest of your town list.

(Wish I remember if I townread you in this game or not. Guess I’ll have to dig into you to remember, which is frustrating cause I had a confident town read on you in A game.)

Indifferent list I agree with. Slight reasons to believe Dom and Grogu are town.

(Oh wait there was that whole Mac and Grogu like caught Chop but oh wait no they didn’t thing.... Who went first there? Did that go nowhere? Mac/Grogu probably not w/w.)

I somewhat townread everyone on the bottom list, actually. Town Martin > Daisy > Epi > Poison > Kyle. I’d rather chop in that middle section or Mac.

Not sure how I feel about this.

I do feel like (though this may be confbias) that the Enclave almost certainly role-copped Macdougall and knew he was Vault city, esp with what I mentioned about Grogu earlier and from what I read so far it feels like Jack or other scums were paying special attention to Macdougall.

[MartinGG99]

That "Enough townie things today" list though by Marmot is curious as more than half of it is non-town players

[MartinGG99]

I agree with the rest of your town list.

There's also that comment by Jack too.

[MartinGG99]

Townlean.

I’m probably at like

Green
Jack
Epi
Alison
Urist
Chop
Martin
Daisy

Light Green
Poison/Syn
Dom
Grogu
Kyle

Yellow
Tony
Marmot
LC

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Spoiler: show

Is this a serious vote or am I just trying to tilt Chopchop?

Spoiler: show

Guess you’ll have to wait and see.

Spoiler: show

Mostly serious.

There is basically no progression to scum-reading LC before these points. It's a drastic jump from him rather consistently town-reading LC but then suddenly stops. We should've looked at this yesterday

Prior to this he made his own reads list and even that comment completely agreeing with Marmot's town-reads, both of which seemed to heavily find LC town.

I think something happened around N4 or D5, as if the scum had to change plans and there might be something worthwhile to note around that time.

[MartinGG99]

Actually scratch that

I looked into comparing the reads lists to see what else changed and I realized that based on what Jack said in Re: Marmot he town-read too many people without really any scum-reads at all, and if there was a scum-read it was TSP or Macdougall because he was the only player he was "indifferent" with and Mac was the only town-read he objected to.

He agreed with Marmot's town-list aside from Mac; said he town-reads most of Marmot's scum-reads, and town-leaned 2 of the 3 people on the indifferent list. Leaving TSP.

[MartinGG99]

Anyways I'll be back later.

I got some motivation to look into stuff again; I've gotten lazy as of late and right now I don't feel comfortable realizing we could have a F4 Mylo or F3 Lylo (Assuming Jack has a teammate) and me not having any strong ideas about it.

[Marmot]

Traveling home now. I'll be around for the second half of the day phase.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I’m the last wolf so don’t bother searching my post history kthx.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@TonyStarkPrime, who have you given inventions to?

Nanook and Sloonei. I’m like 70 percent sure Nanook used his on Made, I made this clear at the time. As far as Sloonei goes, he died.

[TonyStarkPrime]

But like, ok, probably scum inventor, blah blah blah. Noisy data.

[TonyStarkPrime]

I’ve been up for something like 46 of the last 52 hours so I kinda want to sleep but then I’ll look at the game

[TonyStarkPrime]

Martin I beat you to that take on poison early day 2 :P

[TonyStarkPrime]

Ok that’s all for now

[Seanzie]

@TonyStarkPrime, who have you given inventions to?

Nanook and Sloonei. I’m like 70 percent sure Nanook used his on Made, I made this clear at the time. As far as Sloonei goes, he died.

What nights did you give them out? Did they hint at all that they recieved something?

[Urist]

martin is clearly the last wolf posturing for f3

[Jackofhearts2005]

Maybe we’re all just town.

[Seanzie]

martin is clearly the last wolf posturing for f3

Is this meant to be a serious read or a joke?

[Urist]

I approach things not just as a player but as a game designer.

So the first question given Jacks Long Con (I'm so clever ) for me is this: "Would a mafioso claim an ability to make himself the only other name on the poll?"

The answer to that is "Hell no unless you crazy."

The second question I ask is, "Would I as a game designer give mafia a fakeclaim to transform the poll from anybody can die to 'Mafia has a 50% chance of death?'"

The answer to that is "Hell no I ain't crazy."

The third question I ask is, "Would a mafia member whose faction has this in hand claim this ability?"

See the answer to number one.

I'm gradually gaining the perspective that this is all going to be a cautionary tale of "Just because you can don't mean you should."

The holy hand grenade mechanic was almost certainly going to work against civilians.

Jack had essentially forced our hands into choosing between them, which means if we agree with the answers to the questions above, we have no choice but to accept Jack's decision on the matter.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

On the other hand, using a mafia ability is a pro-Mafia mechanic in almost every scenario, and I'm not altogether sure I buy the "My role allows me to use mafia abilities." I don't even make civilian mafia-ability-users anymore.

The fact is we'd been dealt two names to choose from, and one of them was someone whose skill set doesn't make much sense coming from a mafia member. The other one does.

And at the end of the day, if we lose, I get to blame Jack.

[VOTE: Martin] aubergine

[Jackofhearts2005]

[MartinGG99]

Martin I beat you to that take on poison early day 2 :P

Yeah I know. You didn't quote it though and just said it I think.