Lasagna Mafia [END]

Moderator: Community Team

HAMMER IS 3

Deli
2
33%
ejjinami
0
No votes
fingersplints
0
No votes
Luckbox Inc
0
No votes
Syn / MissSparkles
0
No votes
No elimination
1
17%
No vote / unvote
0
No votes
No flavor (host/dead/non)
3
50%
 
Total votes: 6
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1851

Post by Luckbox Inc »

that doesn't read clear at all-- Deli could lunch me before them (if esooa were alive maybe as she strangely was thinking Deli was villagery)-- but not both of us
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1852

Post by ejjinami »

my imagination of the mafia chat:

creature: /kill nanook
deli- but I really think nanook was lying. I’m good at finding PRs
esooa’s red on hyena could make them the cop
creature: /shrug, do what you want, I’m dead anyway
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1853

Post by ejjinami »

fun fact, if nanook is the cop, the only way the scum could win rn is counterclaim them again

GL with that lol
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1854

Post by ejjinami »

actually, I’m not surprised why that team would have killed falcon N1 after all
hyena- likes crazy plays
deli- definitely the type to like crazy plays
creature- would probably just agree
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1855

Post by ejjinami »

let’s just end this game as soon as possible
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1856

Post by ejjinami »

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Image
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1857

Post by MissSparkles »

Let me guess Nanook is gonna come in with a red
:cloud9:
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1858

Post by ejjinami »

MissSparkles wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:44 pm Let me guess Nanook is gonna come in with a red
doesn’t matter
as long as he checked among the PoE, we just win lol
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1859

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Creature red
Spoiler: show
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1860

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

[VOTE: creature] aubergine
Spoiler: show
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1861

Post by Luckbox Inc »

Nanook can't be the seer now
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1862

Post by Luckbox Inc »

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine
still Creature Deli even if that's not the real peek
what is real peek?
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1863

Post by MissSparkles »

If creature doesn’t flip red, you flip Nook tomorrow.
:cloud9:
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1864

Post by MissSparkles »

[VOTE: Creature ] aubergine
:cloud9:
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1865

Post by MissSparkles »

If creature flips red last mafia is Deli/Luck in that order.
:cloud9:
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1866

Post by fingersplints »

Sorry guys I was asleep

[VOTE: creature] aubergine
Gro-oo-ovy
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1867

Post by fingersplints »

Luckbox Inc wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:33 pm Nanook can't be the seer now
If nanook wasn’t the real seer someone else would have counter claimed by now.

Idk why the mafia hasn’t killed them. Perhaps they’ve given up.
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1868

Post by fingersplints »

@JaggedJimmyJay I believe that’s hammer when you get a chance
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1869

Post by fingersplints »

Anyways I’m going back to sleep :p
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1870

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Creature hammered.

Vanilla mafioso.

Night 4 ends at 6:00 PM EDT in just under 20 hours.
Spoiler: show
Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

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Spoiler: show
The Syndicate

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Student Doctor Network

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Rate Your Music

Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9
Best Scum, Maffies 3
Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9
Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9
Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6
Spirit Award, Maffies 9
Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4

Mafia Universe

Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020
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Spoiler: show
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 4]

#1871

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Can’t easily screenshot the previous poll by phone. Here’s the copy-paste:

HAMMER IS 4
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option

Creature
4
57%
Voters: Luckbox Inc, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, fingersplints, MissSparkles
Deli
0
No votes
Voters: None
ejjinami
0
No votes
Voters: None
fingersplints
0
No votes
Voters: None
Luckbox Inc
0
No votes
Voters: None
Nanook
0
No votes
Voters: None
Syn / MissSparkles
0
No votes
Spoiler: show
Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

Awards:

Spoiler: show
The Syndicate

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Student Doctor Network

ImageImageImageImageImage

Rate Your Music

Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9
Best Scum, Maffies 3
Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9
Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9
Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6
Spirit Award, Maffies 9
Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4

Mafia Universe

Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020
Best Town Player, 2020

Hosts:

Spoiler: show
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [NIGHT 4]

#1872

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Night 4 has ended.

Nanook has been cooked. He was the town cop.

Day 5 is capped at 48 hours. The hammer is three votes.
Spoiler: show
Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

Awards:

Spoiler: show
The Syndicate

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Student Doctor Network

ImageImageImageImageImage

Rate Your Music

Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9
Best Scum, Maffies 3
Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9
Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9
Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6
Spirit Award, Maffies 9
Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4

Mafia Universe

Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020
Best Town Player, 2020

Hosts:

Spoiler: show
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1873

Post by Luckbox Inc »

Creature was unfortunately the only person Nanook could have peeked yesterday that didn't lock the game but not much we can do there
[VOTE: Deli] aubergine
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1874

Post by ejjinami »

first the cop lied and got a townie forcefully eliminated

he mafia decided NOT to kill the claimed cop, giving him a chance to get additional green checks
one of the scum, who was deep into people’s town-cores, made a suicidal fake-claim and died.
and they STILL didn’t kill the cop, which should have made the game mechanically impossible for scum to win
but wait wait, then the cop then made the ONLY check which would NOT guarantee a win
and then got finally killed

….I don’t think I’ve seen another game with so many misplays
this is legit just a meme
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1875

Post by ejjinami »

[VOTE: deli] aubergine

I have nothing more to say. Yesterday’s night kill probably just spewed them wolf
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1876

Post by Luckbox Inc »

ejjinami wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:04 pm first the cop lied and got a townie forcefully eliminated

he mafia decided NOT to kill the claimed cop, giving him a chance to get additional green checks
one of the scum, who was deep into people’s town-cores, made a suicidal fake-claim and died.
and they STILL didn’t kill the cop, which should have made the game mechanically impossible for scum to win
but wait wait, then the cop then made the ONLY check which would NOT guarantee a win
and then got finally killed

….I don’t think I’ve seen another game with so many misplays
this is legit just a meme
I mean I'm secretly hoping that you're the wolf and not Deli but it definitely isn't me and I was pretty sure Nanook was seer on D2. I think Deli ends the game about 98% of the time though
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1877

Post by ejjinami »

The only way luck would have made that night kill is if I don’t understand them at all

which probably never happens here tbh
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1878

Post by ejjinami »

Luckbox Inc wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:08 pm I mean I'm secretly hoping that you're the wolf and not Deli but it definitely isn't me and I was pretty sure Nanook was seer on D2. I think Deli ends the game about 98% of the time though
if you want some feedback / a tip for the future, constantly repeating that “it’s not you” and town-casing yourself without a need for it probably wouldn’t be considered townie by the majority of players

or at least in my case, it generally only makes me paranoid :/
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1879

Post by Luckbox Inc »

ejjinami wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:12 pm
Luckbox Inc wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:08 pm I mean I'm secretly hoping that you're the wolf and not Deli but it definitely isn't me and I was pretty sure Nanook was seer on D2. I think Deli ends the game about 98% of the time though
if you want some feedback / a tip for the future, constantly repeating that “it’s not you” and town-casing yourself without a need for it probably wouldn’t be considered townie by the majority of players

or at least in my case, it generally only makes me paranoid :/
Well yeah you're right there.
I'm not too paranoid about you though so it's just Deli and I support someone majjing it.
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1880

Post by ejjinami »

just to make it clear: it’s survivalistic but not necessarily scum-indicative. It shows that you either know or just worry about being wrong, which at least imo isn’t that easy to distinguish

lemme just go to sleep. I hope to wake up to the game being over
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1881

Post by Luckbox Inc »

ejjinami wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:08 pm [VOTE: deli] aubergine

I have nothing more to say. Yesterday’s night kill probably just spewed them wolf
you forgot to vote in the poll
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1882

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Lasagna images to make up for the recent phone-posting disappointments:

Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image

Spoiler: show
Image
Spoiler: show
Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

Awards:

Spoiler: show
The Syndicate

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Student Doctor Network

ImageImageImageImageImage

Rate Your Music

Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9
Best Scum, Maffies 3
Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9
Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9
Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6
Spirit Award, Maffies 9
Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4

Mafia Universe

Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020
Best Town Player, 2020

Hosts:

Spoiler: show
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1883

Post by Deli »

Gg that’s game. EJj incredibly rude and “right” for the wrong reasons, I was trying my best to give you guys a good game, as a wolf is obligated to do, but EJj made it abundantly clear that town didn’t deserve it. EJj having an unoutted alt is also… special ig… anyway not playing with them again.

The nanook stuff was weird, but the only remotely FPS thing we did was kill falcon. We legit just didn’t know who the seer was and faking a red is not normal seer behavior.

Peace.
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1884

Post by Deli »

TY JJJ for the host and delicious lasagna pics/some kinda gross lasagna pics.
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1885

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Town has won. Thanks for playing folks.

This game was... unusual.
:goofp:
Spoiler: show
Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

Awards:

Spoiler: show
The Syndicate

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Student Doctor Network

ImageImageImageImageImage

Rate Your Music

Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9
Best Scum, Maffies 3
Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9
Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9
Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6
Spirit Award, Maffies 9
Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4

Mafia Universe

Mafia Championship Finalist, 2015 and 2020
Best Town Player, 2020

Hosts:

Spoiler: show
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage[-Mass Effect Mafia banner-]ImageImageImageImage
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1886

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

Spectator chat

I will keep the mafia chat private.
Spoiler: show
Overall: 73-57 (.56) | Town 49-41 (.54) | Mafia 18-11 (.62) | Independent 6-4 (.60)

The Syndicate: Town 23-26; Mafia 10-5; Indy 5-1 | RateYourMusic: Town 14-13; Mafia 5-4; Indy 0-3 | Mafia Universe: Town 6-0; Mafia 1-0 | Student Doctor Network: Town 2-1; Mafia 1-0 | HeroClixRealms: Town 1-0; Mafia 0-1 | Bulbagarden: Mafia 0-1; Indy 1-0 | 2+2 POG: Town 1-0 | Naruto Forums: Town 0-1 | Personality Café: Town 1-0 | Vendetta Strada: Town 0-1 | Mafia451: Town 1-0 | Wintreath: Mafia 1-0

Awards:

Spoiler: show
The Syndicate

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

Student Doctor Network

ImageImageImageImageImage

Rate Your Music

Best Townie, Maffies 4, 8 and 9
Best Scum, Maffies 3
Best Moderator, Maffies 8 and 9
Most Valuable Player, Maffies 7 and 9
Best Roleplay, Maffies 4 and 6
Spirit Award, Maffies 9
Hall of Fame inductee, Maffies 4

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NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1887

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Ggs
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1888

Post by Esooa »

gg
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I’ll come clean team. I have failed you.
I never expected to survive the night. I was very confused about the char flip and I was on my way to a very hot date. We stayed overnight to celebrate my girl bday and vday weekend. Last thing in my mind was the game... I never submitted an action last night. :doh:
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1889

Post by KZA »

GG

chocolate lasagna
KZA
Hally wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:51 am eating an entire sandwich is not that hard
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1890

Post by Hyena »

GG, all. <3 No regrets CC'ing Nanook. I couldn't help it. XD
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [DAY 5]

#1891

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Hyena wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:52 pm GG, all. <3 No regrets CC'ing Nanook. I couldn't help it. XD
One of you kinda has to at that point
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1892

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

And you were fairly close to actually getting me over so can't say it was necessarily the wrong play
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1893

Post by Syn »

Great gambit, Nanook.
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1894

Post by falcon45ca »

GG errybody
we can't stop here...this is bat country!
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1895

Post by JaggedJimmyJay »

I never thought I'd say this, but...

a wrong, fake red check by town won town a game.
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1896

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Fwiw I checked creature cause fmpov luck was already lock town for me so the only world the game wasn't locked fmpov was if creature was town

Which was pretty unlikely but still the best check imo given game is locked if they're mafia and the only time they don't die is if they're green checked
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1897

Post by Deli »

You really should just open mafia chat so they can see the seer hunting. I think people forget how many people had peeked Nanook. No seer who peeks Nanook village there CC him imo, which is basically what it looked like fmpov.

Idk how to insert a screenshot but I’ll try, the first thing I said in cop hunting d1 is Nanook is probably the cop…
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1898

Post by Deli »

Image

https://imgur.com/gallery/dCpiDFv

Yeah idk if that works lol idk how to get a screenshot from my phone to go in here. I made an Imgur account but idk if that works. JJJ lol please just open mafia chat. I worked so hard cop hunting d1
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1899

Post by ejjinami »

Deli wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:14 pm Gg that’s game. EJj incredibly rude and “right” for the wrong reasons, I was trying my best to give you guys a good game, as a wolf is obligated to do, but EJj made it abundantly clear that town didn’t deserve it. EJj having an unoutted alt is also… special ig… anyway not playing with them again.
I’m sorry if I made you feel bad.
I’ve been trying to change my play style for a while, to be a bit more blunt in order to save up time on writing walls/explaining my tinfoils and be able to continue playing FM with a busy schedule… but recently I’m seeing that this might have come with a bunch of negative side effects xd
If you’d like to point out the stuff that made you uncomfortable, I’d be very thankful. I’m still trying to find where is the point where I should just stop so any kind of feedback would be very valuable
If anyone else would like to say anything, point out where I went overboard, please do say it. If you don’t want to talk here, doing it privately is fine as well. Having some sort of feedback will definitely make it easier to fix my mistakes


If you’re talking about the post where I… basically said that both alignments threw… sorry xd
I can see how I went overboard there

If I can say one thing to maybe make it a tiny bit better…. if I were scum, I’m almost certain I would have mis-played heavily there as well. I kept thinking about the game enough during the night to basically just convince myself that nanook misplayed way worse than they actually did… xd
I would have most likely killed luck as scum, which would have been probably a worse misplay than killing kami there
so honestly, I’d deserve way worse xd


I think the scums played a good game overall. The town won this game not because they correctly identified enough scum-tells but because of coincidental, lucky cop claims…
Esooa claimed a correct guilty
kami claimed a correct guilty
luckbox claimed a lot of correct checks as well
the mafia got confused by all of that
and nanook… would have most likely been killed in a normal game :/

If hyena didn’t counterclaim there, there’s a high chance that he would have been end-gamed… There is a chance that I could have given the scum victory just because of defending hyena too much xd
So I don’t really feel like the victory is meaningful in any way
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:35 pm Fwiw I checked creature cause fmpov luck was already lock town for me so the only world the game wasn't locked fmpov was if creature was town

Which was pretty unlikely but still the best check imo given game is locked if they're mafia and the only time they don't die is if they're green checked
fair tbh
meow
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NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
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Re: Lasagna Mafia [END]

#1900

Post by NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME »

Deli wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:04 am Image

https://imgur.com/gallery/dCpiDFv

Yeah idk if that works lol idk how to get a screenshot from my phone to go in here. I made an Imgur account but idk if that works. JJJ lol please just open mafia chat. I worked so hard cop hunting d1
Tbf i do that most games, I usually aim to be poe but not die for the first day or two at least
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