Philosophy Mafia 2: Electric Boogaloo

[leetic]

I don't have any scum reads, which is disappoint.

towny post

why'd you say "I have some bad news. I kind of think Esooa is town" though

How's that a towny post? With posts like that town isn't getting any closer to a solve

Also I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat this but the anne wagon still sucks

[Marmot]

Ok I get it now, thanks anne. It seemed like info that you weren't supposed to know, so I was prodding in case it was a scumslip (in a world where you and nutella were partners and you did know who she targetd)

I have some bad news

Spoiler: show

I kinda think Esooa is town

Spoiler: show

Actually I don't but I wanted to say it anyway

Spoiler: show

Ok I'll stop now

[Esooa]

I don't have any scum reads, which is disappoint.

towny post

why'd you say "I have some bad news. I kind of think Esooa is town" though

How's that a towny post? With posts like that town isn't getting any closer to a solve

Also I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat this but the anne wagon still sucks

@Dyslexicon lmao this is Stuart

[Marmot]

Also, just to call out where all of the mech claims are

Marmot - can break ties in the poll
Mac & falcon - neighbors, with a peek they can use on one of them that turns them into lovers
cassandra - protective role
anne - can crosscheck her target with a list of players and know if her target targeted any of those on the list
ilario & leetic - basically a hydra with two separate votes/faces
DrWilgy - vig whose visits are announced

nutella - no actual claim, but says she was blocked and anne said she targeted NAA



Did I miss anyone?

Friendly reminder that roles are not AI in any capacity (with the probable exception that ilario and leetic are the same alignment)

[MacDougall]

I see the mafia are voting me

[Lime Coke]

The wording on a lot of these descriptions are a bit difficult to understand so I can see why Anne is confused?

@anne

I'm still standing on you being town, and I'm relatively fine with the main wagons except for you being one of them obviously. Any chance can you give analysis on both Mac and Nutella?

Probably awkward since you have mech info on one of them.

Spoiler: show

Y'all are disappointing me. With so many of you looking good after the EoD flip, there is no reason for town to be disorganized. Seriously, Wilgy is more on point than most of you today

Like why is anne even being considered as an option after last EoD? Out of Wilgy, Axehole, and MR (the lattermost known town) Jay said he would most want anne to die. I think a lot of you are also to quick to townread nutella for "vibes" when her EoD looks really bad, making a comment about being fine with the Jay vote without switching her vote in a way that just seems noncommittal, like she didn't want to look bad but still hoped for the possibility of anne going down. And people are now suspecting Marmot because god knows why, while Dyslexicon whose main action today was disrupting the town core is being given a free pass.

Really, this isn't going to be any easier for us as the days go on as we'll lose more active players, while we still need to vote out three wolves. But I'm running out of posts fast, so I hope you can all get your shit together by EoD. Seriously, last EoD was so good, there is no excuse for us to be in such a mess right now.

Leetic is a damn hero for this post.

Spoiler: show

I voted Esooa originally as 50% joke based on the names in the game and poll, and 50% she's the only one I had left to not townread yet.
I asked Esooa the question because I iso'd her immediately after and noticed all she did in the first few hours was throw shade and scumreads on players with next to no townreads.
The townreads from Esooa are few and far between afterwards so that was what was pinging me about her thus the question was asked what her townreads were.
She immediately outed that wall post and I unvoted to give her due diligence to read it which I need to do now that I'm awake.

[Dyslexicon]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca

- Does your role dictate that mafia will know when you have used the investigation AND that they will know that you become lovers?
- Would you not become lovers if you didn't use the investigate?

@MacDougall Please answer this

[Marmot]

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

[MacDougall]

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca

- Does your role dictate that mafia will know when you have used the investigation AND that they will know that you become lovers?
- Would you not become lovers if you didn't use the investigate?

@MacDougall Please answer this

yeah something like that

[MacDougall]

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

[Marmot]

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

So you think that all of the mafia (I'm assuming there's no more than 3 left at this point) are currently lined up as your wagon, and they are specifically ilario/leetic, NAA, and spf, and we chop those 3 and that's game?

[Esooa]

I don't really care if I post cap at this point soon

I'm thinking dizzy is probably town now

putting effort into reading people and going "oop no wolf reads" is pretty towny, and that also completely ignored my being pockety to them when I think they'd return it as a wolf

still sad tho lol

[Dyslexicon]

I don't have any scum reads, which is disappoint.

towny post

why'd you say "I have some bad news. I kind of think Esooa is town" though

Because if you're town as well, the whole general direction of this game is kind of fucked.

How's that a towny post? With posts like that town isn't getting any closer to a solve

Also I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat this but the anne wagon still sucks

Well if I had great ideas, I would say so. I could make shit up also, if I was mafia.

Better to be open about being unsure than tunnelling on town all game like you are with me =)

Instead of hating everything I'm doing without trying to understand, why don't you engage with my reasons for town reading Nutella, since you are scum reading her?

@Dyslexicon lmao this is Stuart

I loled.

---

Tried reading Jimmay's ISO again, but it's so full of nothings that it's hard to get anything out of it.
Take away was maybe I'm giving Nut too easy of a town read. But I still think it would be very weird for Nut to go ahead and defend Jimmay like that when almost everyone in thread was scum reading him. I think it's way more likely that Jimmay's teammate didn't comment much or agreed with the suspicion on him.

Yeah, I'm drawing a blank so that's cool.

[nutella]

confirming i attempted to target naa but it failed

[Dyslexicon]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca

- Does your role dictate that mafia will know when you have used the investigation AND that they will know that you become lovers?
- Would you not become lovers if you didn't use the investigate?

@MacDougall Please answer this

yeah something like that

No, be specific. And I want @falcon45ca to verify. This is important.

Does it say in your role that mafia will know you become lovers?

If you didn't become lovers without the investigate, did you ever contemplate just not using it?

[MacDougall]

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

So you think that all of the mafia (I'm assuming there's no more than 3 left at this point) are currently lined up as your wagon, and they are specifically ilario/leetic, NAA, and spf, and we chop those 3 and that's game?

No Marmot I don't think that

I do think spf is probably only voting me because she's stuck for candidates though. I have nfi why the other two are.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca

- Does your role dictate that mafia will know when you have used the investigation AND that they will know that you become lovers?
- Would you not become lovers if you didn't use the investigate?

@MacDougall Please answer this

yeah something like that

No, be specific. And I want @falcon45ca to verify. This is important.

Does it say in your role that mafia will know you become lovers?

If you didn't become lovers without the investigate, did you ever contemplate just not using it?

I can't quote the role but I am pretty sure the mafia get alerted when we become lovers. Notwithstanding they know now so meh.

[MacDougall]

No it never occurred to me. As I said I triggered it 26 hrs into the day. I kinda expected a red check ngl.

[nutella]

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

So you think that all of the mafia (I'm assuming there's no more than 3 left at this point) are currently lined up as your wagon, and they are specifically ilario/leetic, NAA, and spf, and we chop those 3 and that's game?

No Marmot I don't think that

I do think spf is probably only voting me because she's stuck for candidates though. I have nfi why the other two are.

[VOTE: mac] aubergine

why are you still farting everywhere instead of playing

[staypositivefriend]

I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

So you think that all of the mafia (I'm assuming there's no more than 3 left at this point) are currently lined up as your wagon, and they are specifically ilario/leetic, NAA, and spf, and we chop those 3 and that's game?

No Marmot I don't think that

I do think spf is probably only voting me because she's stuck for candidates though. I have nfi why the other two are.

lol i think youre voting ME because youre stuck for candidates, i dont believe that you came around to townreading me like 12 hours ago and are scumreading me magically again with no progression inbetween

@nutella - why are you voting me? (also thanks for the post count - didnt know that you could look it up on mobile)

[staypositivefriend]

nice x-post

[Marmot]

Mac's explanation kinda makes sense if the role is exactly what it says it is.

The thing I'm still having trouble with is why falcon is unquestioningly persisting with a townread on Mac. I get that they might be lovers at this point, but he's not even trying to read him, despite not specifically knowing his alignment.

[Dyslexicon]

I can't quote the role but I am pretty sure the mafia get alerted when we become lovers. Notwithstanding they know now so meh.

You can't quote your role, sure, but you can claim.
I'm just wondering if it's part of your role, specifically, that mafia will be alerted that you have become lovers.
Because you were kind of assuming that.
Which I don't get why you're assuming, if it doesn't explicitly say so in your role.

This is why I want @falcon45ca to very if it's reasonable for you to assume that mafia would get the info that you two have become lovers.

And yes, they know now. And if it's not certain they would know unless you told, then why did you tell.

Also, you're being incredibly limp this game. Is there a reason why?

[nutella]

dunno why iaafr is voting me now lol we have like most of the same reads except for my spf paranoia really but he cant say anything so

im probably gonna end on anne, i keep getting caught up in thinking mac's claim really sounds like it comes from town pov but i really dont have reason to townread him on play

[staypositivefriend]

dunno why iaafr is voting me now lol we have like most of the same reads except for my spf paranoia really but he cant say anything so

im probably gonna end on anne, i keep getting caught up in thinking mac's claim really sounds like it comes from town pov but i really dont have reason to townread him on play

ive seen a couple of people say that they think mac is towny for his claim, but i dont really understand why. we know that claims arent tied to alignment and i dont think there's anything about his claim that he would be particularly ~unlikely~ to do as mafia. do you mind expanding on that a lil bit?

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

[Dyslexicon]

Anne and Mac would be decent alternatives for votes I guess. CONSENSUS.
I don't know how many posts I have left before post cap.
And I won't be around for EoD.
If you all decide to vote me out because the mason crews hate me, then sorry I was not of more use. Mafia is a hard game. Gl gl

Sporadically here until I fall asleep.

Also, my point about asking Mac about specifics about his role is that I think it's strange that Mac automatically assumed that mafia will be notified that they are lovers (unless of course this is explicitly said in their role, or some description points towards that. But I find that kind of weird as well). I don't know if this makes sense to anyone. I don't know if it makes sense to me either. But I feel like Mac may know how that role works for mafia because he is mafia. Or it seems like he's making a lot of assumptions around it. He's also far away from how I know him as town, and close to how I know him as scum.

[Dyslexicon]

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

This so much. He's just saying "mafia is voting me because they want to get rid of lovers" and it's the worst. Mac can actually do stuff when he's town, and he's doing none of that here. He does a lot of treading water as mafia, which is what this looks like. But I kind of want some clarification from Falcon regarding how their role actually works, cause it's still confusing to me.

[MacDougall]

I would say it's certain that they did except for TSP writes shittily worded role PMs

[MacDougall]

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

This so much. He's just saying "mafia is voting me because they want to get rid of lovers" and it's the worst. Mac can actually do stuff when he's town, and he's doing none of that here. He does a lot of treading water as mafia, which is what this looks like. But I kind of want some clarification from Falcon regarding how their role actually works, cause it's still confusing to me.

Then just vote me out dude... you're getting the best of me you're getting for now. Either be patient or just wagon me.

[nutella]

dunno why iaafr is voting me now lol we have like most of the same reads except for my spf paranoia really but he cant say anything so

im probably gonna end on anne, i keep getting caught up in thinking mac's claim really sounds like it comes from town pov but i really dont have reason to townread him on play

ive seen a couple of people say that they think mac is towny for his claim, but i dont really understand why. we know that claims arent tied to alignment and i dont think there's anything about his claim that he would be particularly ~unlikely~ to do as mafia. do you mind expanding on that a lil bit?

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

i think theres some nuances to the way hes talked about it perspective-wise that just feel genuine to me, like for instance about the mafia supposedly finding out and stuff, idk if i can explain tbh but i could just be easily fooled by that kind of thing and hes done nothing else towny so meh. and when he was initially claiming how he waited for falcon to show up but went ahead and used it anyway, i found that pretty sus. whats particularly weird to me is that falcon isnt questioning him at all, maybe because he appears solvey in the neighbor chat but he could be pocketed


tsp mech is a blight on society

[falcon45ca]

@MacDougall @falcon45ca

- Does your role dictate that mafia will know when you have used the investigation AND that they will know that you become lovers?
- Would you not become lovers if you didn't use the investigate?

@MacDougall Please answer this

yeah something like that

No, be specific. And I want @falcon45ca to verify. This is important.

Does it say in your role that mafia will know you become lovers?

If you didn't become lovers without the investigate, did you ever contemplate just not using it?

It's my understanding that the Maf were alerted when we became Lovers, but not our identities...which is most now

[Marmot]

If Mac is town and being truthful with his claim, we do lose two players today if we yeet him. The risk is twice as large as yeeting someone else.

I don't think the claim is specifically townie, just that it is perceivable from a town PoV. It's also a claim that a scum can hide behind without having to prove or demonstrate anything going forward, and it keeps two of them in the clear at once (or possibly only one if falcon is still town)

[staypositivefriend]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

[falcon45ca]

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

This so much. He's just saying "mafia is voting me because they want to get rid of lovers" and it's the worst. Mac can actually do stuff when he's town, and he's doing none of that here. He does a lot of treading water as mafia, which is what this looks like. But I kind of want some clarification from Falcon regarding how their role actually works, cause it's still confusing to me.

Look at it this way...whats the point of the Maf finding out when we become Lovers if one of us is already Maf?

[falcon45ca]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

That's a question for our host

[MacDougall]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

[staypositivefriend]

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

This so much. He's just saying "mafia is voting me because they want to get rid of lovers" and it's the worst. Mac can actually do stuff when he's town, and he's doing none of that here. He does a lot of treading water as mafia, which is what this looks like. But I kind of want some clarification from Falcon regarding how their role actually works, cause it's still confusing to me.

Look at it this way...whats the point of the Maf finding out when we become Lovers if one of us is already Maf?

well that's what i'm confused about, because the roles are supposed to be alignment neutral. why would a part of your role be: "the mafia will find out once you become lovers" if the roles are not supposed to be suggestive of alignment?

[staypositivefriend]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

flail harder nerd

all i hear is howling

[staypositivefriend]

either the setup is broken or theyre bullshitting about the mafia finding out that theyre lovers

[leetic]

How's that a towny post? With posts like that town isn't getting any closer to a solve

Also I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat this but the anne wagon still sucks

Well if I had great ideas, I would say so. I could make shit up also, if I was mafia.

Better to be open about being unsure than tunnelling on town all game like you are with me =)

Instead of hating everything I'm doing without trying to understand, why don't you engage with my reasons for town reading Nutella, since you are scum reading her?

I'm not the one who's voting anne for basically no reason. But go on ahead, I don't really buy arguments from other people that "x player never does this as mafia" or "b player always does this as town" because 1. people can learn from their past mistakes, 2. these arguments often reflect the biases of the person making them, and 3. a skilled player can fake all this anyway and I'd like to assume we're not bad players. JJJ was nothing like his scum game in the game I hosted where he was scum, but it didn't stop him from being scum. The reasons to scumread nutella are largely based around Jay interactions and how she dealt with the threadstate at EoD. This is more reliable because wolves can fake effort, they can fake emotion, but wolves will not generally make blatantly suboptimal plays. nutella only really defended Jay after I made it safe to do so by stating Jay was unlike his last wolf game, and the way she popped in to say she was alright with a Jay vote, but not actually change her vote in case anne picked up again, and her willingness to try to pick up an anne wagon again today with barely an acknowledgement it was confirmed to be wolfy. These are all stronger pieces of evidence against her than anything for her, and I still don't like her interaction with Esooa, and her contributions today are largely tinfoiling which doesn't help town. I also don't like how she seems to be added to the towncore alongside players like Lime Coke, Marmot, and cass who all have much stronger reasons to be townread. nutella seems like she might have an important role though, so I may be more willing to vote you or Esooa over her today, but you can't deny that nutella has had many wolfy moments this game.

Also, it's not unheard of for mafia to let town destroy itself, and given how much of a mess these past few pages are I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Nobody should be giving anybody town points for hedginesss right now.

Anyway, I'm nearly out of posts right now and probably will only post again before EoD in case of an emergency, so keep that in mind.

[MacDougall]

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

[Dyslexicon]

Ok, I’ll be patient with Mac and won’t be voting there now. Thanks for clarifications.

[MacDougall]

either the setup is broken or theyre bullshitting about the mafia finding out that theyre lovers

*gestures broadly at the setup*

[Marmot]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

My role also has a clause written in it based on whether I rand town or mafia, so it doesn't surprise me that theirs would too.

[falcon45ca]

im more interested in seeing mac genuinely scumhunt, which i do not feel like he has

This so much. He's just saying "mafia is voting me because they want to get rid of lovers" and it's the worst. Mac can actually do stuff when he's town, and he's doing none of that here. He does a lot of treading water as mafia, which is what this looks like. But I kind of want some clarification from Falcon regarding how their role actually works, cause it's still confusing to me.

Look at it this way...whats the point of the Maf finding out when we become Lovers if one of us is already Maf?

well that's what i'm confused about, because the roles are supposed to be alignment neutral. why would a part of your role be: "the mafia will find out once you become lovers" if the roles are not supposed to be suggestive of alignment?

I don't know. I can only confirm what Mac is telling you about our role.

[MacDougall]

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

[staypositivefriend]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

My role also has a clause written in it based on whether I rand town or mafia, so it doesn't surprise me that theirs would too.

alright, its probably not worth reading into then

[MacDougall]

if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

My role also has a clause written in it based on whether I rand town or mafia, so it doesn't surprise me that theirs would too.

the mafia will be alerted when this role is activated but not who has it.

thats paraphrasing what it says.

who knows what kind of dumb way tsp alerted them. I imagine it was dumb and stupid like his face.

[Marmot]

emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.