Team Fortress Mafia [END]

[Seanzie]

Such an interesting poll for day end.
Seems like it comes down to the vote manipulators who gets lynched.

This is why we should compromise on someone instead of splitting the poll.

Eh, these are good points, I voted specifically to make a 3-way tie to see what happens, but with vote manipulation... ties aren't necessarily ties, and that is a bit meh...

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

[LinearPoint]

I think scouts and soldiers should prioritize tracking to be honest.
Information is king.

[Guillotine]

N1 medic should probably be on 50/50 between the two abilities

Rocket guy can do whatever, probably take the vote day 1 and not sure from there

Pyro should only be using air blast if anything and probably nothing for now
Sniper should claim if there are votes on them to draw mafia actions maybe can get guided if necessary
I have opinions on heavy but I’m not going to share them
Demoman should be straight up blocking every night, might sticky bombs exactly n1 though
Scouts should probably baseball bat day 1
I think one? Engineer should claim now, and we can set up a system to test whether they’re town or mafia. But I don’t understand the engineer power so idk


General setup note: counterwagons are interesting but should probably be avoided. Lots of ways for wolves to hit extra vote power

same logic applies to vanity votes. so... ?

Unless there is a power that can add 4 votes, vanity wagons do not apply really.

[Dyslexicon]

The only thing that I like is the blatant PR speculation on Wilgy that I think might not come from mafia but I still kinda want to vote here tbh

I agree with the blatant PR speculation and clearing Wilgy off of that is unlikely to be mafia.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Yeah ok there’s an engineer setup that tests an engineers alignment

[Guillotine]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

[Seanzie]

N1 medic should probably be on 50/50 between the two abilities

Rocket guy can do whatever, probably take the vote day 1 and not sure from there

Pyro should only be using air blast if anything and probably nothing for now
Sniper should claim if there are votes on them to draw mafia actions maybe can get guided if necessary
I have opinions on heavy but I’m not going to share them
Demoman should be straight up blocking every night, might sticky bombs exactly n1 though
Scouts should probably baseball bat day 1
I think one? Engineer should claim now, and we can set up a system to test whether they’re town or mafia. But I don’t understand the engineer power so idk


General setup note: counterwagons are interesting but should probably be avoided. Lots of ways for wolves to hit extra vote power

same logic applies to vanity votes. so... ?

Unless there is a power that can add 4 votes, vanity wagons do not apply really.

My point is that with potential for wolf vote manipulation, town being on a vanity wagon is -EV since it allows for scum to have more wagon control.

[TonyStarkPrime]

N1 medic should probably be on 50/50 between the two abilities

Rocket guy can do whatever, probably take the vote day 1 and not sure from there

Pyro should only be using air blast if anything and probably nothing for now
Sniper should claim if there are votes on them to draw mafia actions maybe can get guided if necessary
I have opinions on heavy but I’m not going to share them
Demoman should be straight up blocking every night, might sticky bombs exactly n1 though
Scouts should probably baseball bat day 1
I think one? Engineer should claim now, and we can set up a system to test whether they’re town or mafia. But I don’t understand the engineer power so idk


General setup note: counterwagons are interesting but should probably be avoided. Lots of ways for wolves to hit extra vote power

same logic applies to vanity votes. so... ?

Well vanity votes should always be avoided

Also I really misread the engineer and thought that a lot of people can get the power but I think I’ve worked it out

[TonyStarkPrime]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

Still down but slightly less down

[LinearPoint]

I will say this now, if we compromise between Gav and Marmot.
We should always lynch Gav. Gav gives tells and information regardless of his alignment.
Marmot is basically lynching an empty slot right now, no offense.

[LinearPoint]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

This is also a valid option, but very risky to get enough votes for.

[Guillotine]

Im down for either Sabie, Gavial or Sig today.

[Guillotine]

I will say this now, if we compromise between Gav and Marmot.
We should always lynch Gav. Gav gives tells and information regardless of his alignment.
Marmot is basically lynching an empty slot right now, no offense.

I agree.

But i said this before, LP echoing my posts now. We are almost masons now.

[MartinGG99]

Martin why are you still voting Marmot?
You RVS voted them and never changed to a serious vote.
Now that Marmot is tied for most why not switch off? You haven't even really commented on any of the wagons besides Gav's.

Simply speaking I haven't seen anything decently wolfy to me aside from Mamot's help comment earlier.

As I said in a recent post, I'm interest in seeing any movement that happens while Gav's wagon is still in question for EoD and not certified yet.

So I'm hopeful that will give me good info. And if it doesn't then that's still intriguing info regardless.

My Marmot vote was also meant to generate reads.....but only like 1 person reacted to that so that completely failed.

To put it in an overall sense I'm lost wrt most players, except a few which I have mentioned and do town-read to some degree.

Some players I could have reads on but I'm aware they're experience and am withholding judgement on till I get a higher-confidence read on.

[LinearPoint]

I legitimately think we gain nothing for a Marmot lynch.
They are failing to give any connections and the only thing we get if they do flip Mafia is all the people last minute piling on them are less likely to be Mafia.

[MartinGG99]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

This is also a valid option, but very risky to get enough votes for.

wdym by that?

[Dyslexicon]

Town:
Nanook
Falcon
Dizzy
LP
Gavial
DrWilgy
Dolby
Guillo

8 towns, include me would make it 9.

That leaves....

Jack
Mac
Marmot
Martin
NAA
Sabie
Sig
TSP


So I'm in hopes that most of mafia are in the list of those 8. If I manage to get all of them in there then I'd be pretty happy.

Nice, a comprehensive view.

What makes Dolby town to you? I don't think they've done anything AI indicative yet.
For me, I'd be tempted to put both Mac and TSP as tentative town.
It's a bit tough, cause large part of the game isn't active at all.
You also forgot Sean.
I'm more comfortable with Guillo, Sean, LP and you as town. I think I've explained most of those reads somewhere, except you. But I just feel like you seem normal enough lol.

[LinearPoint]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

This is also a valid option, but very risky to get enough votes for.

wdym by that?

WEll Sabie is about as active as Marmot and their vote on Marmot was weird as I pointed out.
So if lynching for lasck of posts Sabie > Marmot imo.

[Dyslexicon]

I don't support a Marmot chop, because he hasn't done shit (which he should), but I feel he can be readable later.

Also, @Marmot would love love love your input here.

[Guillotine]

strangely enough even though I feel like this statement in particular is super-replicable even as wolf I somehow vibe with this in a way (and in connection to everything else they've done so far) that makes me want to say town

someone in the thread is going to try and murder me for having this in my run-on sentence aren't they

So nice of you to point out, i had miss it!

Bookmarking it too.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Yeah one engineer should claim first engineer to claim can get checked

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sabie has 3x as many posts as Marmot, I reject false equivalencies

[Guillotine]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

This is also a valid option, but very risky to get enough votes for.

wdym by that?

WEll Sabie is about as active as Marmot and their vote on Marmot was weird as I pointed out.
So if lynching for lasck of posts Sabie > Marmot imo.

Let's try it, if not we can always comeback to Gavial for a fine CFD.

[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

[Dyslexicon]

What's the case against Jack?

I'm voting him because his "oh haha I'm here" with an added "wait, did scum already flip?" seems performative, as the kids says. I also think he was asking questions to Gavial that he didn't care much to get the answer from. Like, he made conversation, but I don't think he cared to do anything else than just get some posts out. I didn't like it. Jack is hard to read, but I've done well doing it in the past. But yeah, not a very confident read either way tbh.

[Guillotine]

NotAnAxehole voting without commenting is giving me the creeps but i dont want to engage that troll in this game.

[LinearPoint]

I'd say Sabie has about twice the chance of flipping Mafia over Marmot atm.
Just because Marmot hasn't done anything overly scummy, is just flaky. and Sabie has at least 1 somewaht forced looking post.

As I said before I think my lynch prio goes to Sabie > Gav > Marmot/Jack
I don't see a Sabie CFD forming right now (at most maybe 4 votes will appear in total) so Gav is my next bet.
Marmot just doesn't scream Mafia and I don't like how most of the votes on them are for inactivity or just because they don't feel like Gav is worth lynching.
Those are not good reasons to lynch someone. Inactivity lynches are 99% Town and if you have the choice between an active player with possible connection tells and an inactive you always go active just for information even if they are both Town.

[LinearPoint]

NotAnAxehole voting without commenting is giving me the creeps but i dont want to engage that troll in this game.

Yeah, but NAA legit always goes for the CFD no questions asked.

[Guillotine]

What's the case against Jack?

I'm voting him because his "oh haha I'm here" with an added "wait, did scum already flip?" seems performative, as the kids says. I also think he was asking questions to Gavial that he didn't care much to get the answer from. Like, he made conversation, but I don't think he cared to do anything else than just get some posts out. I didn't like it. Jack is hard to read, but I've done well doing it in the past. But yeah, not a very confident read either way tbh.

Hedgey. If not confident why keep it there?

Let's kill Sabie or Gavial.

You say Marmot would not yield info, would Jack yield any better?

[Dyslexicon]

Gav could very well be Maf. He had an odd entrance re: my RNG POE, claiming later he liked the list (save LP)...it's a RNG list at the beginning of the game, there's nothing to like. Most of the player list hadn't even posted.


Then Gav said he'd sheep me. Now he has me as a null read, which is something that Gav rarely does w/ anybody, let alone myself. To date, in no game Gav & I have played has he ever had me as null. It's either town or scum, there's no in between w/ Gav


He's been soft on my slot, very out of character. I've made mention of it already. Gav is not really in his town range IMO. Definitely could be scum

Yeah, he actually could. Last game I played where Gavial was mafia, everyone kept town reading him and excusing his bad reads because "oh well, it's just Gavial, he usually doesn't make sense". He tunnelled and had a very static view of the game. I've seen him act similarly as town though, which is the problem. But some of his takes are just too far removed from reality to believe.

I'd vote him out every time over someone else I'm unsure of though.

[MartinGG99]

What if we all just kill Sabie off.

This is also a valid option, but very risky to get enough votes for.

wdym by that?

WEll Sabie is about as active as Marmot and their vote on Marmot was weird as I pointed out.
So if lynching for lasck of posts Sabie > Marmot imo.

Oh.

Well I can go with a sabie yeet I guess, after re-reviewing their 20 posts. I don't think they're notably wolfy though except maybe for the fact they don't seem to have any strong opinions on Gav while voting Marmot; which I just noticed.

They're voting someone with much less posts than Gav but cannot make said mind up about gav. Seems like something a town could be in especially on D1, but it is a situation that I think is probably more >rand wolf than it is >rand town.

[sabie12]

I, too, have been fooled a few times by mafia jack. I feel like I can never read him. I'm not sure I've ever seen mafia falcon or just don't remember so not sure if there is a difference, but I didn't see anything outright scummy with him so far. Gavial I think is also a bit harder to read. I saw that people kind of jumped on voting him pretty quick into the day.

Pls more prescriptive less descriptive statements

Sure I can elaborate. I don't think we can judge Jack's alignment yet as he hasn't been here even if he has been tricky in the past. I was unsure as to why everyone jumped so quickly on the gav train so early on. I guess that stems from me taking a little longer to process things in the beginning of games before figuring things out. From my experience, I feel like there are sometimes players who often get scumread early on whether they are town or scum. I've seen this happen to sig and to gavial for example and it seems to have happened here.

Why is Jack not judgeable but Marmot is if both player's presence have been lacking in this game?

This is an old post from before Jack even came into the game so that's not the same thing. I have misread Jack a lot in the past and I didn't want to make a read on someone who didn't say anything yet. He at least has tried to express an interest in playing but no his presence hasn't been great either. I was hoping a vote on marmot would get him to come back or engage in some way but that doesn't seem to be happening now.

[Dyslexicon]

What's the case against Jack?

I'm voting him because his "oh haha I'm here" with an added "wait, did scum already flip?" seems performative, as the kids says. I also think he was asking questions to Gavial that he didn't care much to get the answer from. Like, he made conversation, but I don't think he cared to do anything else than just get some posts out. I didn't like it. Jack is hard to read, but I've done well doing it in the past. But yeah, not a very confident read either way tbh.

Hedgey. If not confident why keep it there?

Let's kill Sabie or Gavial.

You say Marmot would not yield info, would Jack yield any better?

I rarely have a confident vote on D1.

Jack would be better to get rid of if he is mafia, and I have some inclination he might be.
Marmot can be caught later tbh. I also have no read of them at all, except their reaction to being voted was not scummy for Marmot imo.

I'd prefer Gavial over Sabie.
I think Sabie also can be read well over time.

[MartinGG99]

[VOTE: Sabie] aubergine

[MartinGG99]

Interestingly enough, NAA went from Dyslexicon -> Marmot -> Sabie

If I remember correctly. They aren't posting their votes but I think they've jumped twice now.

[Dyslexicon]

I think Gav is Town. I know he likes to make mountains out of mole hills and has some bad case of tunnelvision.
But he does legitimately try to fish for other people to give their reads.
If this were a Mafia Gav I feel like he'd be trying to engage people less and focusing more on just running the game with his conspiracy theories.
The fact he is even wanting others to give opinions on who is Mafia is telling that this is Town Gav.

That being said if he flips Mafia he 100% TMId a lot of things from the fact that there is exactly 1 Mafia in Sean, Guillotine, Falcon to various people being Town with no reason for the town reads.

I don't think he's Mafia though.

This is a valuable perspective. Especially the fact that he's badgering others for reads. I will check if he did that in the last scum game I saw from him or not, but you might've found something.

[MartinGG99]

Interestingly enough, NAA went from Dyslexicon -> Marmot -> Sabie

If I remember correctly. They aren't posting their votes but I think they've jumped twice now.

Might've been gav instead of marmot though.

I should've taken a screenshot.

[Guillotine]

I, too, have been fooled a few times by mafia jack. I feel like I can never read him. I'm not sure I've ever seen mafia falcon or just don't remember so not sure if there is a difference, but I didn't see anything outright scummy with him so far. Gavial I think is also a bit harder to read. I saw that people kind of jumped on voting him pretty quick into the day.

Pls more prescriptive less descriptive statements

Sure I can elaborate. I don't think we can judge Jack's alignment yet as he hasn't been here even if he has been tricky in the past. I was unsure as to why everyone jumped so quickly on the gav train so early on. I guess that stems from me taking a little longer to process things in the beginning of games before figuring things out. From my experience, I feel like there are sometimes players who often get scumread early on whether they are town or scum. I've seen this happen to sig and to gavial for example and it seems to have happened here.

Why is Jack not judgeable but Marmot is if both player's presence have been lacking in this game?

This is an old post from before Jack even came into the game so that's not the same thing. I have misread Jack a lot in the past and I didn't want to make a read on someone who didn't say anything yet. He at least has tried to express an interest in playing but no his presence hasn't been great either. I was hoping a vote on marmot would get him to come back or engage in some way but that doesn't seem to be happening now.

It does not qualify as an old post when we are still on day 1.

Im questioning your logic which does not match up.

[Dyslexicon]

Hmm I guess Marmot's disinterest is odd and could be mafia? If he were then he hasn't provided much interaction with anyone so he wouldn't be worried about giving away teammates if he gets voted off. I can never get a good read on Jack. If Jack is mafia he's better to get out earlier rather than later. Does gavial have a different playstyle when town or mafia? He always seems kinda all over the place.
Throwing a vote on marmot for now. Hoping to be able to come back later before EOD.
[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

This is veeery non-committal, even for me.

[LinearPoint]

I, too, have been fooled a few times by mafia jack. I feel like I can never read him. I'm not sure I've ever seen mafia falcon or just don't remember so not sure if there is a difference, but I didn't see anything outright scummy with him so far. Gavial I think is also a bit harder to read. I saw that people kind of jumped on voting him pretty quick into the day.

Pls more prescriptive less descriptive statements

Sure I can elaborate. I don't think we can judge Jack's alignment yet as he hasn't been here even if he has been tricky in the past. I was unsure as to why everyone jumped so quickly on the gav train so early on. I guess that stems from me taking a little longer to process things in the beginning of games before figuring things out. From my experience, I feel like there are sometimes players who often get scumread early on whether they are town or scum. I've seen this happen to sig and to gavial for example and it seems to have happened here.

Why is Jack not judgeable but Marmot is if both player's presence have been lacking in this game?

This is an old post from before Jack even came into the game so that's not the same thing. I have misread Jack a lot in the past and I didn't want to make a read on someone who didn't say anything yet. He at least has tried to express an interest in playing but no his presence hasn't been great either. I was hoping a vote on marmot would get him to come back or engage in some way but that doesn't seem to be happening now.

This is not what you said when you clarified your vote on Marmot.

Spoiler: show

Hmm I guess Marmot's disinterest is odd and could be mafia? If he were then he hasn't provided much interaction with anyone so he wouldn't be worried about giving away teammates if he gets voted off. I can never get a good read on Jack. If Jack is mafia he's better to get out earlier rather than later. Does gavial have a different playstyle when town or mafia? He always seems kinda all over the place.
Throwing a vote on marmot for now. Hoping to be able to come back later before EOD.
[VOTE: marmot] aubergine

I don't like this.
You're last post with Marmot was basically saying you felt the same about the game as they did.

Spoiler: show

@Marmot

Why are you way more low presence compared to Philo 2?

I keep forgetting I'm in a mafia game and am feeling lazy this game.

That happens to me when I haven't played in awhile. Any thoughts so far?

But now you are using it as a reason to vote them?
It just feels like this is coming from someone looking for an excuse to get on the wagon than a legitimate read.

Well I thought maybe he was going to come in and start participating now that he remembered he was playing. Then he just kinda said he didn't care and didn't provide anything else so I found that odd.

This post implies that you already reached the conclusion that he was not going to become active before you voted him.
But you're saying that you voted him to get him to participate which does not line up.
Not to mention it wasn't just a vote on marmot you made, it was the vote to tie him up with Gav for the most votes.
If you were the 3rd vote that might be pressure, but your vote post is implying you're now just fine killing him sooner than later which isn't pressure, that's just pushing a lynch.

[Seanzie]

So I just did a meta-dive on Sabie and was about to vote there, but now there are 5 voters, one of which is NotAnAxehole voting without saying anything in thread...

I still kinda want to vote there, but I don't feel nearly as good about it as I did before I saw the wagon...

[VOTE: Sabie12] aubergine

[TonyStarkPrime]

this is spite against whoever threw a cheap shot at me for quote unquote vanity voting earlier

[Guillotine]

So I just did a meta-dive on Sabie and was about to vote there, but now there are 5 voters, one of which is NotAnAxehole voting without saying anything in thread...

I still kinda want to vote there, but I don't feel nearly as good about it as I did before I saw the wagon...

[VOTE: Sabie12] aubergine

If NAA is scum he wants us to freak out and not vote where he is voting.

Luckily for us we can form our own reads and vote for those we scumread and not being manipulated by such actions, right?

[MartinGG99]

So I just did a meta-dive on Sabie and was about to vote there, but now there are 5 voters, one of which is NotAnAxehole voting without saying anything in thread...

I still kinda want to vote there, but I don't feel nearly as good about it as I did before I saw the wagon...

[VOTE: Sabie12] aubergine

where does marmot fit in your mind right now if you're voting Sabie

[Dyslexicon]

Gav could very well be Maf. He had an odd entrance re: my RNG POE, claiming later he liked the list (save LP)...it's a RNG list at the beginning of the game, there's nothing to like. Most of the player list hadn't even posted.


Then Gav said he'd sheep me. Now he has me as a null read, which is something that Gav rarely does w/ anybody, let alone myself. To date, in no game Gav & I have played has he ever had me as null. It's either town or scum, there's no in between w/ Gav


He's been soft on my slot, very out of character. I've made mention of it already. Gav is not really in his town range IMO. Definitely could be scum

This just kind of read to me as a possible Mafia who didn't want to say their partner was Town, but also didn't want to vote them in case they could somehow survive the day.

My early Gav/Falcon theory lives! \o/
It's funny, cause I'm not used to Falcon using so many words to describe his reads. So yeah, I could still see this connection for sure.

[LinearPoint]

Has NAA actually posted?

[Dyslexicon]

Look at this. A mindmeld.

LP might be town after all.

Told you =p

[MartinGG99]

Has NAA actually posted?

twice for the minimum

When is eod? I'll make sure to be present.

When is eod? I'll make sure to be present.

It says on the top of the poll.

You have my vote, it's in the poll

[LinearPoint]

Well I commend him for gaming the system then lol.
Can always count on NAA to play the weird strats.

[Seanzie]

this is spite against whoever threw a cheap shot at me for quote unquote vanity voting earlier

It was me. I threw the cheap shot. Deal with it.

[sabie12]

Okay so I guess voting marmot when others also voted marmot makes me scum. I'm trying to figure things out as best I can. I thought his post was sketchy and could be from a disinterested mafia and EOD still was a bit away when I put my vote there. I take awhile to process things sometimes so my responses and analysis isn't as quick as others. I guess I'm just a bit out of practice.
I'm in agreement that a gavial flip gives us more info than a marmot one and his deflections and weird theories make sense as mafia so moving my vote there.

[VOTE: gavial] aubergine